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Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson

Broadcast executive Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson was born in 1948 in Los Angeles, California. Jackson graduated from George Washington High School in 1966. She went on to receive her B.A. degree in child development from California State University in Los Angeles in 1972.

Upon graduation, Jackson was hired as a secretary in the network research department of NBC-TV. She was promoted to a manager 1976, and soon became a program executive and supervisor for many shows, including The Richard Pryor Show, Chico & the Man, Little House on the Prairie, and ChiPs. In 1982, Jackson was promoted to vice president of children’s and family programs at NBC, becoming the first African American woman to reach the level of vice president in programming. While serving as vice president, she implemented, directed and supervised a number of children’s television programs, including the Smurfs, Alvin & the Chipmunks, Mr. T, Punky Brewster, Jim Henson’s StoryTeller, Big Bird Goes to China, and Saved by the Bell. Jackson was instrumental in making NBC Saturday morning the number-one rated kids network for seven years, and she increased advertising sales from $2 million to $35 million.

In 1991, Jackson joined the World African Network, where she served as executive vice president until 1997. After raising her family in South Africa for thirteen years, Jackson returned to the United States when she was hired as the special projects consultant for the launch of The Hub cable network. Jackson was promoted to network story editor of The Hub in 2012. Then, in that same year, she was hired as the vice president of broadcast standards and practices at Saban Brands, where she became responsible for the review of all Saban Brands programming content for the CW Saturday morning block. Jackson has received many honors and awards, including being named to Dollars and Sense Magazine’s America’s Top 100 Black Business and Professional Women. She was also appointed to the board of trustees of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts by President Bill Clinton.

Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 17, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.296

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/17/2013 |and| 12/16/2013

Last Name

Jackson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Tucker Vinson

Occupation
Schools

California State University, Los Angeles

George Washington Preparatory High School

116th Street Elementary School

Los Angeles Harbor College

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Phyllis

Birth City, State, Country

Los Angeles

HM ID

JAC33

Favorite Season

Summer

State

California

Favorite Vacation Destination

South Africa

Favorite Quote

Tell Yourself The Truth

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

7/2/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Los Angeles

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Shrimp, Chicken

Short Description

Broadcast executive Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson (1948 - )

Employment

Saban Brands

Hub

Tommy Lynch Productions

World African Network

NBC

Favorite Color

Yellow

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson's interview, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Slating of Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson's interview, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her maternal family history

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her paternal family history

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the tradition of education in her father's family

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her mother's experience growing up on a farm in Neeses, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her father's experience growing up in Orangeburg, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her family's tradition of attending Claflin College in Orangeburg, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her parents' move to Los Angeles, California

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her earliest childhood memory in Lancaster, California

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the community in south Los Angeles, California where she was raised

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson remembers her first day of fifth grade at 116th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her experience in school in the 1950s and her children's experience in school in South Africa in the 1990s

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the stigma of being a divorcee in 1971

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about attending Holman United Methodist Church in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her family's values as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her experience watching television as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her exposure to African American history as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson explains that she did not know many celebrities growing up in South Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the social organization she and her friends created at George Washington Preparatory High School in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her social life during her high school years

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her role models and being discouraged from going to college by a high school counselor

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the riot in Watts, California in 1965

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson recalls the March on Washington and President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her early experiences with live television

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about attending Los Angeles Harbor Community College in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 15 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about being a young single mother

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about applying to the police academy in 1969

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the television show 'Julia' starring HistoryMaker Diahann Carroll

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about majoring in child development at California State University, Los Angeles, in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about collecting children's literature

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about teaching in a mobile pre-school while in college

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Phyllis Jackson talks about graduating from California State University, Los Angeles and being hired by NBC as a secretary

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes working at NBC in 1972, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes working at NBC in 1972, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about TV shows that were on NBC when she first started working at the network in 1972

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about being promoted to manager of variety programming at NBC

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the live taping of the first episode of 'The Richard Pryor Show'

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the people working on 'The Richard Pryor Show': Richard Pryor, Paul Mooney and Rocco Urbisci

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson explains why 'The Richard Pryor Show' was unsuccessful

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes why she was not interested in producing variety programming

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her work in child and human development at Pacific Oaks College in Pasadena, California

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the shows she oversaw as program executive for dramatic programming

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks being promoted to director of children's programming at NBC

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the production process for NBC's children's programming

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about developing the 'Smurfs' TV show

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the role of toy manufacturers in the development of children's programming

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about how characters were developed in children's programming

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about supervising the creation of the TV show 'Alvin and the Chipmunks,' pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about supervising the creation of the TV show 'Alvin and the Chipmunks' pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about 'Saved by the Bell' and working with HistoryMaker Karen Hill-Scott

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about briefly working with Bill Cosby

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the global impact of 'Saved by the Bell'

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the African Americans she hired while working at NBC

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her attempts in the early 1980s to increase diversity on television

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the television characters she's named after her children

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about NBC's declining to invest in the Cabbage Patch Kids

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the World African Network, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the World African Network, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson leaves NBC to work at NBC Productions, where her programs were described as "too black"

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the show 'Miss Collegiate African American Pageant'

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her sister, Dorothy Middleton Taylor, as one of the first African American writers for children's programming

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the opportunity she and her husband, Eugene Jackson, had to work in South African television programming in 1992

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the popularity of Nigerian soap operas

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about moving to South Africa with her family

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about World African Network Online

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about meeting HistoryMakers Charlayne Hunter-Gault and Ronald T. Gault in South Africa

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about moving from Bryanston, South Africa to a farm outside of Pretoria, South Africa

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about South African fashion

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about 'Saved by the Bell'

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the conference she organized on diversity in television

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson explains how 'Saved by the Bell' set the stage for diverse casting in pre-teen shows

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about positive black characters on TV shows

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about 'The Cosby Show'

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about NBC's lack of interest in investing in the Cabbage Patch Kids

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about Phil Mendez and 'The Black Snowman'

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about NBC's Project Peacock

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the TV show the 'Gummi Bears' and blond haired heroines in children's television

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the production schedule in children's programming

Tape: 7 Story: 11 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the success of Nickelodeon

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Phyllis Jackson talks about the change in network television since the 1980s and 1990s

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the types of programming she liked to air on NBC, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the types of programming she liked to air on NBC, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her decision to leave NBC Productions and work full-time at the World African Network

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Phyllis Jackson describes how historically black colleges and universities in were popularized in the 1980s and 1990s

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her interest in African media and selling World African Network to cable operators

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about 'Stomp,' a show produced by the World African Network

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson explains why the World African Network never got on the air

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about what she would have done differently with World African Network

Tape: 8 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about what convinced she and her husband to move to South Africa

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about having tea with Nelson Mandela, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about having tea with Nelson Mandela, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about having tea with Nelson Mandela, pt. 3

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about other African Americans who were moving to South Africa in the 1990s

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the type of programming she wanted to air on the World African Network, pt.1

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the type of programming she wanted to air on the World African Network, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about attending Nelson Mandela's inauguration in 1994

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the culture in South Africa, post-apartheid

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the cell phone business, Afrotel, her husband, Eugene Jackson, started in South Africa

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about sending her children to South African schools

Tape: 9 Story: 11 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the cultural differences in South African business

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the differences in the business environment in South Africa and that in the United States

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the difficulty she experienced trying to adapt American business models to South Africa

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about subtle cultural distinctions between South Africa and the United States

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the ethnic and racial demographic in South Africa

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the children's television series, 'Scout's Safari'

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the first World AIDS Day and starting a production company in South Africa

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her return to the United States to work for the Hub network and the changes in technology from 1998

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about working on the animated television program, 'Secret Millionaires Club'

Tape: 10 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the Children's Television Act of 1990 and the new standards for children's programming

Tape: 10 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her role as vice president of broadcasting standards and practices at Saban Brands

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her feelings while working at Saban Brands

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her dream of creating a show that tells children's stories from the African diaspora

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the film industry in African countries, pt. 1

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about the film industry in African countries, pt. 2

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes what she would have done differently in her life

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the challenges of balancing her career with raising children

Tape: 11 Story: 9 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her relationship with her ex-husband Eugene Jackson

Tape: 11 Story: 10 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 11 Story: 11 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson narrates her photographs, pt.1

Tape: 11 Story: 12 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson narrates her photographs, pt. 2

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson narrates her photographs, pt. 3

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson narrates her photographs, pt. 4

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson narrates her photographs, pt. 5

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$5

DAStory

12$6

DATitle
Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson describes the people working on 'The Richard Pryor Show': Richard Pryor, Paul Mooney and Rocco Urbisci
Phyllis Tucker Vinson Jackson talks about her attempts in the early 1980s to increase diversity on television
Transcript
And Richard [Pryor]--it was really a pleasure to work with him because he's so--he was just so brilliant. I remember we did a sh--sh--sketch about clowns. And the sketch itself, in terms of him being a sad clown, as I was sitting there and watching it in the bleachers, just moved you to tears. He was such a brilliant actor.$$Okay, yeah, you know, it's been said many times that comedians are really sa--very sad people. Did you find that to be true with him?$$No, what I said was I think they're brilliant. After working with Richard Pryor and Robin Williams, they are brilliant. You don't realize that the kit--it made me--because--maybe because I'm the child development and the mother, realize that--and, and Ed--Eddie Murphy the same thing. They're brilliant. And school situations contain them and constantly tell 'em no and sit down and things like that. And they are actually brilliant. They are brilliant observers of life, and they bring it to life through their observations of life. And Robin Williams used to play with my son [Nye Tucker] like in the sta--in the--in the bleachers. He'd do all those faces and, and voices and things like that and make him laugh. He was eight (unclear) he's--he was eight years old, and he would just entertain him. 'Cause they--and they also keep busy, and they keep moving. They can't be still. That's what I found, in terms of being around them. They have to--they're constantly on, they're constantly entertaining; they're constantly moving around; they're constantly telling jokes; they're constantly having the focus of the attention on them; but they're brilliant 'cause they just see things in life that you don't see.$$Okay, so you're saying when they're, they're in public they're actually being themselves. They're engaging all the time.$$They're engaging. They're on all the time. And Richard was just--he would run and he would hide and not--I mean, Rocco Urbisci was the producer. And Paul Mooney was a part of the team that got him to come out.$$So that's interesting. That relationship--Paul Mooney I know did a lot of the writing for the 'Richard Pryor Show.'$$Um-hmm, he did.$$And so he had to actually persuade Richard to come out?$$Uh-hmm, 'cause he was a good--he was a--he was kind of a friend. Rocco Urbisci--in fact, to me there needed to be a stronger authority on the show who could make Richard more--Richard needed to be more accountable. If anything, those, those people to me, from my perspective--and I mean I was a young program executive--they were more friends with Richard. They were more friendly with Richard, and it took--it just needed to be--there needed to be an authority figure as far as I was concerned.$$Okay, well, we know that the show ran four episodes, but--so what was--kind of give, give us a perspective I guess from--what happened, you know.$$It wasn't a ratings success. It wasn't a ratings success, and I also think it was a combination. It wasn't a ratings success--but any show that starts new, unless it's highly promoted, has to be given time. Richard was not happy because of the restrictions, and it really was not programmed in the right time period. It should have been a ten o'clock show.$Now you hosted--I don't know what, what time period. The date isn't here, but you put together a conference of African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, women, the physically disabled people to discuss program content. Is this--well, what was the name of this?$$It didn't have a name really. It started out as a meeting that we organized with the research department from NBC [National Broadcasting Company], and we brought in consultants from those various communities, and had a meeting actually at the Universal Sheraton. Be--the rea--the impetus for the meeting was this: All the writers, you know, the Joe Bar--Joe Barbera, Friz Freleng, and the writers at the studio who were trying to create these content, did not have any--much exper--it's mostly men, no women at that time, and no people of color, and there was no diversity. So you're trying to get them to be more diverse and more open to having African-American characters, to having Latino characters, to dealing with let--you know, disabled stories. So what we decided--what I decided to do was--and I talked to our research department about organizing a meeting and having someone come in. Karen [HM Hill-Scott] from the African American community, Dr. Scott [ph.] from Latin American community, a woman from UCLA [University of California, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California], Asian--some--a Chinese--either--it was Asian. I can't remember what community it was from, but we met and talked about what it was like to come from all these diverse communities as a group--as a research group first. The information was so enlightening, we decided to share it with the creative community. And I will never forget we, we had a bigger meeting where we invited the studios in, the writers, everybody that we knew. It was probably fifty, one hundred people. It was so successful, we ended up doing it in New York [New York] as well and talked about what it was like being a person of color and how you wanted to see yourself on television. And one of the statistics that came out was--and this probably was in, say, '81 [1981], '82 [1982]--that in twenty years, the population in Los Angeles [California] would be--I don't know--forty percent Latino. And there was a gasp in the room; it was like (gasp sound) (laughter), and it's here. You know, it was like--because people were looking at numbers and making projections--they saying things like the white community is on--only having 1.2--these numbers are not accurate--1.2 children; the African-American family is having 2.5 children; you know, the Latino community is having 4.5. Well, they thought based on those numbers, they were gonna grow in population. So it was--and we were saying that to say how important it was to embrace these other cultures and portray them on television. Because I would give writers notes to say why don't we make this character--I'll never forget, a writer on 'Spiderman.' There was a manager of a upscale hotel in a 'Spiderman' cartoon. And I said, "Why don't we make this role African American?" And he said, "That would never happen, have an African American manager of an upscale hotel." And from his experience, that's what his experience was. And just tying it to my own life, I remember going and staying at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Buckhead in Los An--in Atlanta [Georgia] thinking--and there was an African American manager. I'm like see (laughter), but it wasn't his experience. So that's what we were up against. It's like, the writers who were actually writing material could not even imagine having people of color in other roles. And in their mind it was just a block. So it was educating that community. We educated that community and the larger community, and then we did it in New York. And as a result of what we did and understanding that people of color wanted to see themselves on television--and at that time, NBC was number three--Brandon Tartikoff took that information, and as a result, in 'Miami Vice,' cast--what was the African American brother's name [sic, Philip Michael Thomas] who was in--$$Yeah, I know Don Johnson and the other was--God, what was--$$Mario Van Peebles? Was it--$$No, it wasn't Mario. It was--yeah, this is tel--I hope he doesn't see this.$$Well, we'll stop--$$We can't think of his name.$$--right and we'll go back and--$$But--$$--say that, but--$$Yeah, but--$$--as a result of that information, he put him in that role to attract our community, and more people beginning to understand the importance of that. All right God, what is his name?$$Let's not dwell on that--$$Okay.$$We'll, we'll, we'll get to that.$$But anyway--$$--(Simultaneous)--$$--we'll go--$$--(Simultaneous)--$$Anyway--and we'll go back and--$$Yeah.$$--they can edit it--but anyway, yeah. But as a result of that information, they be--NBC began to thoughtfully consider populating their television shows with people of color. So not only did it affect children's programming, but it affected other areas as well.