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Suzanne Malveaux

Broadcast Journalist Suzanne Malveaux was born December 4, 1966 in Lansing, Michigan to Floyd J. and Myrna Maria Ruiz Malveaux. Her father was a Ph.D. student at the time of her birth and went on to become a prominent physician and professor. Her mother was an early childhood educator. Malveaux cites her parents’ leadership and guidance as key factors in her success in elementary school. She received her B.A. degree in sociology from Harvard University and her M.A. degree in journalism from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. Between her time at Harvard and Columbia, she spent time as an intern in Africa, doing documentary work in Kenya and Egypt where she lived. Malveaux also worked on a documentary about the Great Depression with Henry Hampton, founder of Blackside, Inc.

Malveaux’s first job in television news was as a general assignment reporter for New England Cable News in Boston, Massachusetts. After several years, she took a position reporting local and crime news for NBC affiliate WRC-TV before joining NBC Network News in 1999. She spent six years, three in Washington and three in Chicago, as both a Pentagon correspondent and reporter, covering national stories such as the Kosovo War, the 2000 Presidential Election and the 9/11 attacks. In May 2002, Malveaux joined CNN as a White House correspondent. During the 2004 and 2006 elections, she played a crucial role in the network’s election coverage, helping to earn the station an Emmy Award in 2006. Throughout Malveaux’s ten years as a White House correspondent, she conducted interviews with Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama. In addition to her work as a reporter, Malveaux served as a panelist during the Democratic presidential primary debate in January 2008 and anchored a 90-minute documentary on then presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama. Also in 2008, Malveaux interviewed former first lady, Hillary Clinton. She also served as the primary fill-in host on "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer".

Malveaux’s work at the New England Cable News Network earned her an Emmy award and contributed to the station’s “Best Newscast in Boston” award. Her role in CNN’s coverage of events such as Hurricane Katrina and the Southeast Asia Tsunami disaster helped earn the network both a Peabody Award and an Alfred I. DuPont Award. In 2004, the National Black MBA Association awarded her Communicator of the Year. She was named one of “America’s Most Powerful Players Under 40” by Black Enterprise magazine in 2005 and Journalist of the Year by Essence magazine in 2009. In 2011, Malveaux was promoted to anchor of CNN Newsroom. Throughout her career, Malveaux has traveled the world and interviewed all five living U.S. presidents.

Suzanne Malveaux was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 17, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.080

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/17/2012

Last Name

Malveaux

Maker Category
Schools

Columbia University

Harvard University

Swansfield Elementary

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Suzanne

Birth City, State, Country

East Lansing

HM ID

MAL07

Favorite Season

Spring

Sponsor

Herb and Sheran Wilkins Media Makers

State

Michigan

Favorite Vacation Destination

Islands

Favorite Quote

You Do You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Interview Description
Birth Date

12/4/1966

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Television news correspondent Suzanne Malveaux (1966 - ) has broken numerous stories for CNN, including the plea deal of lobbyist Jack Abramoff, White House personnel changes and the retirement of Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. She also played a key role in CNN's election coverage.

Employment

Cable News Network

NBC News

WRC TV

New England Cable News

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Crimson, Burgundy

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Suzanne Malveaux's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Suzanne Malveaux lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her mother's family background - part one

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her maternal ancestry

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her grandparents' life in New Orleans, Louisiana

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her mother's growing up in New Orleans, Louisiana

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her father's growing up in Louisiana

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her father's education and his career

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Suzanne Malveaux describes how her parents met and married

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her siblings and her likeness to her parents

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her twin sister and her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her bond with her twin sister

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Suzanne Malveaux describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Suzanne Malveaux describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her experience in elementary school, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her experience in elementary school, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her exposure to the media and black journalists while growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her involvement in a co-ed Boy Scouts troop while growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her experience in high school and growing up with a twin sister

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her involvement in extracurricular activities in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her teachers and role models

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about traveling with her family as a child and her travels as an adult

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about the early days of cable television and her interest in dance

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her interest in medicine and her decision to pursue a career in broadcast journalism

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her decision to pursue undergraduate studies at Harvard University

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Suzanne Malveaux describes her experience at Harvard University

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Suzanne Malveaux talks about her teachers and mentors at Harvard University

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$3

DAStory

4$5

DATitle
Suzanne Malveaux talks about her interest in medicine and her decision to pursue a career in broadcast journalism
Suzanne Malveaux describes her decision to pursue undergraduate studies at Harvard University
Transcript
It's time to graduate [from high school] in '84 [1984]. Now, what were your aspirations? Did you graduate with any--$$Well, one of the things--my mean my dad [Floyd Joseph Malveaux] being a doctor, he always wanted one of us to be a doctor. So he was kind of pushing that along. And I had thought about it because I loved biology and I thought about delivering babies. I thought that that would be the most noble thing to do, to bring children into the world. And there was one weekend that he actually set me up at D.C. [District of Columbia] General with one of his buddies, who's a doctor, who's an obstetrician. And we put our scrubs on and we did deliver babies together for a weekend. And it was actually kind of the most horrific experiences of childbirth, because you had a lot of people there, no prenatal care--very, very poor--emergency deliveries. Nothing was pretty. We had one woman who was obese and was a heroin addict and her baby was dead inside of her and had been inside of her for a while. But because she was a heroin addict, she hadn't naturally delivered. So, I was with this doctor, Dr. Lawer was his name. And we came in together with our scrubs, and I was just his little assistant. And she was there, and she was very angry, very upset. I think she might have still been high, and she was cursing at him because she was one of the only white people in the hospital because D.C. General mostly is predominantly black. So she was cursing at him, accusing him of, you know, undermining what was going on, you know, her baby and all that stuff. So it was really strange and disturbing to see. There was another young, young woman, a teenager. It was like her second or third child. Nobody was there with her. Nothing was happening on time, so she didn't have time for any medications. So she's screaming and crying and everything is just very traumatic. Another woman who came in had been raped. And so it was all these different types of deliveries and experiences within that weekend. And it did not discourage me at all. I loved it even more. I mean, I was not deterred by seeing all of that. It was pretty gross and disturbing, but I still was on that path. At the same time I also loved storytelling, drawing. I loved the visual as opposed to the print. I thought print was way too confining, although I loved to write stories, I loved to tell stories. I loved to, my sister [Suzette Malveaux] and I ever since we were kids we always had these little play school, little characters almost like little dolls, and we were always acting out things, acting out different dramatic storytelling or family drama or whatever. So, that was also something that I was also interested in. So when I went to college, I had these two competing interests. One was delivering babies and being pre-med, going down the pre-med track, and then the other was really journalism, radio, TV. And what I ended up doing was starting off pre-med in my freshman year, and at the same time I was doing internships for radio and TV stations. So I was working for radio and TV stations, reporting. I was already kind of involved in it. And so it was, it really was about what ultimately I was passionate about. And I didn't feel like I--I did not have the commitment to take all of those classes, all the pre-med classes, to go in that track. And I realized what I really, what I had been committing to, what I was spending all my time was, was leaving my classes and going to the local TV station and to the local radio station and putting on the broadcast, you know, writing and reporting for the local media. And when I--and I thought well, you know what, I can do this. This is something I can do as a career. That's when I really devoted a lot more of my energy and my time and my passion to that, and I let go of the pre-med.$$Okay.$We'll go back a little bit to high school. When you graduated from high school did you have any special role to play, valedictorian or salutatorian, or class president?$$I was the vice president of the student government for the county. And so I was very active in student government. I had been the class president. I wasn't the class president in my senior year. But I always had a mixed group of friends and lots of different groups that I was with, and was in the top ten percent of the class and part of a group of people who had studied together and ended up going off to the Ivy League--our high school was known for producing students who went off to the Ivy Leagues. It was a small group, but--$$How many students went off to--now, you went to Harvard, but how many from your high school went to Harvard?$$My sister also went to Harvard, too. So it was the two of us. Uh, well, I think there was, I think there were maybe four or five of us who were accepted. But others chose Princeton, Yale. It was a whole group of us. We were also thinking UVA, because we all loved UVA. But I think it was just the two of us.$$Okay.$$I mean there was a group of us who got in. No, no, no, there was one other person. There were three of us from our school that went to Harvard [University].$$Okay.$$Me and my sister [Suzette Malveaux], and actually another clarinet player who used to sit right beside me, Bob.$$Okay. Did you consider any other school?$$Oh yeah, definitely. I loved Georgetown [University]. Georgetown was like my number one school for a really long time because of international relations. I really loved the focus. It was just, it was funny because my sister and I had decided early on we were going to go to different schools, because as I mentioned, we were getting sick and tired of each other (laughter). But in high school we're like, we're like "I got to get a little more space." But it was funny. At first--well I applied just to see if I'd get it, it was a dare. And Suzette applied because she was tired of filling out applications, and I think Yale [University] required another essay, and she was like forget it. I don't want to write anymore. So she applied to Harvard. And I was shocked actually that I did get in. I didn't expect it, because it really was just a kind of a, you know, a dare basically. And then you know you get the thick envelope. Then it's like wow, okay, now what do I do? You know, am I even going to like this place, you know? Is this the kind of place I need to go to school, you know? You hear all kinds of things like ah, everybody's like, you know, snobby or they're rich or you know, there's no black people there, whatever. And so um, my sister got in, and my dad [Floyd Joseph Malveaux] to his credit said "Oh, why don't you go visit the school, why don't you see if you like it?" So we went up. And it was really incredible, because for the first time it was actually--there was a black community of people who had been in honors' classes and who were like, I mean, we were, we had a whole community, which was really amazing. We hadn't had that before. It was always like, you know, you were one of two or three black students in the class. And it was just an incredible welcome, you know, an epiphany and it felt amazing. And so it felt comfortable. It felt like, well this is the kind of place I could be, I can grow, I can relax and enjoy all aspects of who I am and what I am. And so they really sold us on the school when we were there. And we came back, we came back home, and then it was financial aid. It was like, we can't really afford to go to Harvard and we certainly can't afford to send two of you to Harvard. So we went back and we asked for more financial aid, if it was possible. And it came back to us and we did get more money, which was great. So we were able to, you know, carry the two of us. And then it was a matter of making decisions, because I had gotten into UVA [University of Virginia]--I had gotten into Georgetown. We had free rides at a lot of schools, we had full scholarships. So we weren't going to have to worry about the money if we decided to go. Much closer to home, Harvard was going to be a big financial burden, and so I went into my room and Suzette went into her room. You know, we had those separate rooms, and I prayed and I paced the room for awhile, and then I made a decision and I came out and Suzette came out of her room. And I said "I'm going to Harvard." She said, "I'm going to Harvard too." (laughter). So we turned to each other and we were like, "Huh, really?" "We're going to be stuck with each other a little longer." (laughter). But I am so glad we actually did go together, because it was family, you know. And it was like everything was new and fresh and different and exciting and scary, and I cried, you know. My parents [Floyd Joseph Malveaux and Myrna Maria Ruiz Malveaux] cried when they left us there on campus, but it was so nice to have her there on campus, you know. It was like a bit of home and security, you know, because she was my best friend.$$Okay, okay.

Wayne Dawkins

Author and newspaper editor Wayne Dawkins was born on September 19, 1955, in New York, New York to Iris and Edward H. Dawkins. Both his mother and father were of Jamaican and Panamanian descent. Dawkins became interested in journalism at an early age when his mother sent him to the neighborhood candy store to buy the daily newspaper. His parents also encouraged his reading habit, buying for him and his siblings a set of encyclopedias when he was still very young. As a child, Dawkins attended Benjamin Banneker Elementary in Brooklyn, New York and P.S. 176. He graduated from New Utrecht High School in 1973, located in the Bensonhurst neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York.

In 1977, Dawkins graduated from Long Island University with his B.A. degree in journalism where he was a member of the junior varsity basketball team. After receiving advice from a mentor, he decided to further his education and enroll at Columbia University's School of Journalism where he received a substantial scholarship. Dawkins graduated with his M.S. degree in journalism in 1980 and was hired by the Daily Argus as a reporter where he met his first wife, Joyce Ingram. Afterwards, he moved to New Jersey where he worked for the Courier Post. In 1981, Dawkins attended his first National Association of Black Journalists (NABJ) conference, and several years later he was appointed as regional director. While serving in that position, he witnessed the organization’s growth and was instrumental in the establishment of several of its chapters. After graduating from the School of Journalism, he founded the alumni newsletter Black Alumni Network where he first wrote about the history of the NABJ in 1990. Sparking his interest, the book Black Journalists: The NABJ Story soon followed and was published under Dawkins’s own press company, August Press.

Dawkins has worked as an editor for several newspapers, including the Daily Press in Hampton, Virginia. Deciding to share his skills as a reporter and editor, Dawkins began teaching journalism at Scripps Howard School of Journalism and Communications at Hampton University, in Hampton, Virginia. He has received many awards and honors, including the distinguished Alumni Association Award from Columbia School of Journalism. In 2004, Dawkins was awarded the prestigious Columbia University Alumni Federation Medal, which is the highest honor that can be bestowed upon an alumnus of Columbia University.

Wayne Dawkins was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 4, 2005.

Accession Number

A2005.185

Sex

Male

Interview Date

8/4/2005

Last Name

Dawkins

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Schools

New Utrecht High School

Benjamin Banneker Elementary School

P.S. 176 The Ovington School

Long Island University

Columbia University

Search Occupation Category
Speakers Bureau

Yes

Speakers Bureau Availability

Weekends

First Name

Wayne

Birth City, State, Country

New York

HM ID

DAW05

Favorite Season

Summer

Speaker Bureau Notes

Availability Specifics: Fridays, weekdays by request

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

Outer Banks, North Carolina

Favorite Quote

Probably The Greatest Gift You Can Give Someone Is The Purity Of Your Attention.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Maryland

Interview Description
Birth Date

9/19/1955

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Baltimore

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Red Beans, Rice

Short Description

Author and newspaper editor Wayne Dawkins (1955 - ) has written several articles and books, including a book on the history of the National Association of Black Journalists. He also started his own publishing press, August Press, in 1992.

Employment

Hampton University

Daily Press

Post Tribune

Courier-Post

BlackAmericaWeb.com

Daily Argus

Trans-Urban News Service

August Press, LLC

Favorite Color

Forest Green

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Wayne Dawkins' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Wayne Dawkins lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Wayne Dawkins describes his maternal great-grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Wayne Dawkins describes his maternal grandparents, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Wayne Dawkins describes his maternal grandparents, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Wayne Dawkins describes his maternal grandfather's background and personality

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Wayne Dawkins recalls his trips to Panama to see his maternal grandparents and their family

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Wayne Dawkins describes his mother's upbringing in the Panama Canal Zone, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Wayne Dawkins describes his mother's upbringing in the Panama Canal Zone, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Wayne Dawkins describes his parents' marriage and immigration to the United States

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Wayne Dawkins talks about his mother's first marriage and his step-brother

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Wayne Dawkins describes his father's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Wayne Dawkins describes his father's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Wayne Dawkins describes the social environment in the Panama Canal Zone and Jamaica

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Wayne Dawkins describes his father's personality

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Wayne Dawkins describes how his uncle and Earl Caldwell influenced his interest in journalism

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Wayne Dawkins shares his earliest memories

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Wayne Dawkins talks about growing up on Kosciuszko Street in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Wayne Dawkins describes the cultural diversity of his childhood in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Wayne Dawkins describes his experience at Benjamin Banneker Elementary School P.S. 256

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Wayne Dawkins describes his experience in sixth through eighth grade

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Wayne Dawkins recalls the Bensonhurst neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York and taking public transit to school

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Wayne Dawkins remembers some of his teachers from elementary and high school

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Wayne Dawkins describes enrolling at Long Island University in Brooklyn, New York and the challenging courses he took

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Wayne Dawkins talks about self-reliance

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Wayne Dawkins describes his experience at Long Island University in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Wayne Dawkins talks about wanting to finish college in four years

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Wayne Dawkins describes his experience as a journalist while attending Long Island University in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Wayne Dawkins talks about his experience with the Trans-Urban News Service

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Wayne Dawkins describes enrolling at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and moving into his own apartment in Manhattan

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Wayne Dawkins talks about his brother's career as a chef

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Wayne Dawkins describes his experience at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism in New York City, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Wayne Dawkins describes becoming a reporter for the Daily Argus in Mount Vernon, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Wayne Dawkins talks about the career of his first wife, Joyce Ingram, and reporting for the Camden Courier-Post

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Wayne Dawkins talks about his divorce from Joyce Ingram and marrying Allie Crump

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Wayne Dawkins describes his experience as regional director for the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Wayne Dawkins describes the growth of the National Association of Black Journalists between 1981 and 1989

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Wayne Dawkins talks about his role as a columnist for the Camden Courier-Post and becoming an assignment editor for the Knight Ridder Newspaper in Gary, Indiana

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Wayne Dawkins describes his book, "Black Journalists, the NABJ Story"

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Wayne Dawkins describes starting his publishing company, August Press

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Wayne Dawkins talks about the growth of the August Press and writing his second book about the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Wayne Dawkins reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Wayne Dawkins talks about building the infrastructure of the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Wayne Dawkins talks about the history of the Unitarian Universalist Church

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Wayne Dawkins reflects upon his regrets

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Wayne Dawkins narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$5

DAStory

1$4

DATitle
Wayne Dawkins describes the growth of the National Association of Black Journalists between 1981 and 1989
Wayne Dawkins describes starting his publishing company, August Press
Transcript
So you, you're getting interested in NABJ [National Association of Black Journalists], you're a columnist there at the Courier [Courier-Post], Camden. Tell us about any--your work with NABJ.$$That was my chance to, what I like to call like see the, the plumbing. How the organization--how the association works. One-- some of the biggest things we did was just manage the growth. Like when I joined in '81 [1981] and went to the--my first convention in New Orleans [Louisiana], it was 250 of us. And then we had about the same in the next year in Detroit [Michigan], about 300. And then we had 300--I remember this number exactly, 334 people in New Orleans in '83 [1983]. And that's when the group made this break from the past. That's when Merv [Aubespin] was elected president and his board was pretty much people of my generation. And that was kind of a, a break with the founders who you know, started the group and tended to be the officers. And Merv really focused on growing the association. So it turned out the next year when we went to Dallas [Texas], our membership had at last doubled and we had about 1,000 people at the Atlanta [Georga] convention in '84 [1984], and that was--and was big news there. There was the, the Hymietown case [HM Reverend Jesse Jackson incident] and that's when [HM] Milton Coleman came.$$Absolutely.$$And he was grilled by our members about what happened. That's when [HM Reverend] Jesse Jackson came at the--spoke at the banquet. You know, now that he was no longer a candidate. A lot of that stuff, matter of fact, is gonna be covered today. The final segment of my series on NABJ has been running in the Atlanta Voice. So I finally, I, I elude to that, those conventions in Atlanta. So we were growing the association.$$That's when I resigned as NABJ executive director.$$Yes, exactly.$$Because of Jack, Jesse's campaign.$$Right. So through the '80s [1980s] we're growing the association, we're certifying chapters. By the time I get out of it in '89 [1989], I think we have two dozen chapters around the country. We've grown our scholarship program. We're now giving at least five to seven scholarships, plus internships. Will Sutton and others, we're on a constitution committee where we rewrite the constitution and bylaws to reflect the changes going on in the association. We also realign--we do our version of reapportionment, we realigned the regions because we had to give relief to the, to the South. The South was--the, the--our regions was based on old HEW--Health and--what's now called Health and Human Services map. And the south was an eight state region. But we've heard the stories about the--there's been a reverse migration of blacks to the South. And the South was bursting at the seams. In order for us to be a, a successful organization, we had to split the South into two regions and kind of realign the others to accommodate them. So, you know, Will and myself and some others, we realigned those regions. And I think that's probably some of our best work at NABJ because you know we had to make some people unhappy, but we, we created a, a map to help continue the, continue the growth of this organization.$But you also did something else at that time, you sort of skipped over it, and that was establish August Press.$$Yes.$$And tell us how you decided you needed to publish this yourself.$$Well I needed to publish it because when I sent the manuscript to publishers, and there was about a dozen to fifteen or so, I either got just out-and-out rejection letters where it just said no. There were others that said you send something--this is well written, this is very interesting. But it just doesn't work for us, or just commercially we don't know if there's a market for it. And then there was a publisher that expressed some interest, and then decided not to do the project and refused to return the manuscript even though I followed the rules. I sent a self-addressed stamp envelope. And then it seemed they, they issued a dare. They said "If you think you can do this, do it yourself." Well luckily I had a spare copy of the manuscript and I, I took them on their challenge and I formed, you know, that's when I formed my press. Published the book myself and after I did that, you know what I tell people is that, you know, "yes I was proud of what I did, but seeing I understood that okay, I've accomplished this, but now what's next? What's next?" So I decided to when I could, publish other authors. And I worked with hat I thought was a, was a very good local columnist at the [Camden] Courier-Post, Rosemary Perillo [ph.]. And I approached her about binding some of her best columns into a book. And we did that in '94 [1994]. Didn't do well commercially 'cause I was still learning the publishing game and sometimes the rules in the publishing game are there are no rules. I still think we did a very good book, but it just didn't do well commercially. But then I went back and tried again the next year 'cause Richard Carter who was at the [New York] Daily News approached me with a manuscript he, he did on the doo-wop group The Spaniels from Gary, Indiana. And he heard that I had an interest in music, particularly jazz. So he figured I, I would be a receptive ear to a book about group, what's basically group harmony and the blues. And I did and we, we did that project. So I published that one, that was my--that was the third book we published, and that was in '95 [1995]. And then by '96 [1996] you know, I'm, I'm looking for another job. So I--that--the publishing kind of lies dormant for a while. I go out to Gary, I need to concentrate on my job as an editor [at Knight Ridder]. But I managed in '97 [1997] to update the NABJ story. So it's, it's in the form that it's in now. A book with five additional chapters, illustrations, the--a copy of the sign-in list that looks like our Declaration of Independence. So a beefed up version of the book comes out in '97 [1997]. At that point, I'm in Gary and that was for a brief stretch. We went through what just happened yesterday. There was that-the cataclysmic news that the Detroit Free Press [Detroit, Michigan] was sold to Gannett, and the Detroit News was sold to another publishing company. I went through that in Gary, 'cause that's when Knight Ridder sold the paper. So I had to figure out what to do; was the family gonna stay in Gary or go somewhere else. And that's when the opportunity came in [Newport News] Virginia to come to the Daily Press as an editorial writer.