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Ben Johnson

Government official Robert Benjamin (Ben) Johnson was born on July 14, 1944 in Marion, Arkansas to Robert and Willie Johnson. Johnson was raised in South Bend, Indiana, where he graduated from high school. He went on to attend the Indiana Military Academy and was commissioned into the U.S. Army as a 2nd Lieutenant in 1967.

From 1967 to 1968, Johnson worked for WSBT-TV, where he became the first black television news reporter in South Bend, Indiana. Johnson then served as director of employment services for ACTION Inc., the St. Joseph County anti-poverty agency, and as managing director of the St. Joseph County Community Federal Credit Union. In 1975, he was the first African American to mount a serious campaign for mayor of South Bend, but was not elected. Two years later, in 1977, Johnson left South Bend for Washington, D.C., where he became director of the National Center for Urban Ethnic Affairs Credit Union Institute, and served as special assistant to the chairman of the board of the National Credit Union Administration.

In 1979, Johnson joined President Jimmy Carter’s Administration as director of consumer programs and special assistant to Esther Peterson. From 1983 to 1987, he worked as the administrator of the Business Regulation Administration, where he oversaw the governing of corporations that conducted business in the District of Columbia. In 1988, Johnson was appointed administrator of the Housing and Environmental Administration and directed enforcement and compliance of housing and environmental laws in Washington, D.C. He was then named director of the District of Columbia's Department of Public Assisted Housing, where he worked until 1993, when he joined President Bill Clinton’s White House staff as an associate director in the Office of Public Liaison. Johnson then served as special assistant to the President, and was responsible for all areas of outreach to the African American community. He later served as deputy assistant to the President; and, in 1999, was appointed assistant to the president and director of the White House Office on the President's Initiative for One America, where he oversaw the first free-standing White House office in history to help close the opportunity gaps that exist for minorities in the United States.

Johnson has also served as senior counselor to Porter Novelli, Ogilvy, the National Cancer Institute and Spectrum Sciences, among others. He has spoken at many institutions and organizations including Harvard University, the Brookings Institute, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and the Aspen Institute. Johnson chaired the board of the One America Foundation, and served on the board of directors of the AFLAC Corporation. He was also a deputy chairman of the Democratic National Committee, and served on the DNC’s Rules and the Bylaws Committee. His many awards include an honorary doctorate degree from Morgan State University and the Washington, D.C. Distinguished Government Service Award.

Johnson lives in Upper Marlboro, Maryland with his wife, Jacqueline. They have five children and eleven grandchildren.

Ben Johnson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 19, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.085

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/19/2014 |and| 5/21/2014

Last Name

Johnson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Benjamin

Occupation
Schools

Indiana Military Academy

First Name

Robert

Birth City, State, Country

Marion

HM ID

JOH47

State

Arkansas

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

7/14/1944

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Short Description

Presidential aide Ben Johnson (1944 - ) served in both the Carter and Clinton White House Administrations. He was appointed by President Bill Clinton as assistant to the president and director of the White House Office on the President's Initiative for One America.

Employment

ACTION, Inc.

St. Joseph County Community Federal Credit Union

National Center for Urban Ethnic Affairs Credit Union

National Credit Union Administration

United States Government

Business Regulation Adminstration

Housing and Environmental Administration

District of Columbia's Department of Public Assisted Housing

White House Staff

President's Initiative for One America

Josie Childs

Civic leader and government employee Josie Childs was born on October 13, 1926, in Clarksdale, Mississippi to Julia Brown and Charles Washington, a dentist. Although born in Clarksdale, Childs grew up in Memphis, Tennessee and Vicksburg, Mississippi. Her grandfather was a successful landowner and professor, and Childs’ grandmother was a school teacher. She attended elementary school and high school in both Memphis and Vicksburg. Childs went on to attend LeMoyne–Owen College in Memphis, and then took classes at the Cortez W. Peters Business College. She also studied at Northwestern University in Chicago, where she took business courses in the late 1940s.

Childs was employed with the City of Chicago, first under sponsorship from Bob Miller in the Sixth Ward, and then under Colonel Jack Riley as an events coordinator in the 1950s. She also served as an administrator at the Metropolitan School of Tailoring. Childs went on to work with former Chicago Mayor Harold Washington on his 1977 and 1983 mayoral campaigns. She was also Mayor Washington’s aide for many years. Childs then worked at City Hall as an administrator in the City of Chicago’s Special Events and Cultural Affairs departments from 1983 until 1990. Following her work with the City of Chicago, she went on to create and promote various events, including an acknowledgement event for Great Lakes African American naval musicians.

Childs was the founder of the 2013 Harold Washington Tribute Committee, and has worked to ensure the continued legacy of Chicago’s first African American Mayor, Harold Washington. She has been a member of many organizations, including the Duke Ellington Society, Joint Negro Appeal, Know Your Chicago, Executive Service Corps., and Friends of the Chicago Public Library. She sat on the boards of the National Council for Lay Life and Work and the Christ Hospital Nursing School. Childs received the Georgia Palmer Award from Congressman Danny K. Davis in 2013. She has also donated the “Josie Brown Childs Papers,” a collection of documents consisting of family history, her political work, and her efforts to promote African American cultural and historical awareness, to the Chicago Public Library.

Josie Childs was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 24, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.248

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/24/2013

Last Name

Childs

Maker Category
Occupation
Schools

Magnolia Avenue High School

Cherry Street School

Booker T. Washington High School

LeMoyne-Owen College

Cortez Peters Business College

Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Business

First Name

Josie

Birth City, State, Country

Clarksdale

HM ID

CHI02

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

I Could, But I Won’t Complain.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

10/13/1926

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Blueberries

Short Description

Civic leader Josie Childs (1926 - ) worked for Chicago City Hall for a number of years. She also aided former Chicago Mayor Harold Washington during his 1977 and 1983 mayoral campaigns, and later co-founded the Harold Washington Tribute Committee.

Employment

City of Chicago

Metropolitan School of Tailoring

Favorite Color

Peach

Timing Pairs
0,0:2740,35:4588,72:20679,389:22450,469:37818,683:38090,688:38634,698:38974,704:39450,712:39858,719:46367,804:46762,810:47394,819:49527,918:57410,1003:63594,1049:66116,1065:66908,1079:67172,1084:70920,1155:72690,1172:73018,1177:75724,1224:76052,1229:77118,1255:77446,1263:80275,1292:80735,1297:85620,1349:89184,1443:91178,1465:93760,1498:95560,1526:99068,1566:115338,1752:125504,1884:126120,1896:135712,2045:136603,2065:147844,2221:150876,2246:151248,2256:151558,2261:154205,2289:154814,2298:156728,2341:163495,2448:166100,2459:175924,2541:176196,2546:177012,2597:177284,2602:185358,2644:186282,2663:188328,2706:188856,2739:189252,2747:189714,2756:191628,2799:192222,2811:196534,2851:198812,2925:199884,2953:200889,2975:212012,3153:220832,3334:232918,3543:236370,3555:236626,3560:236882,3565:237522,3577:239634,3652:239954,3664:240978,3687:242898,3737:243602,3752:244434,3778:244690,3783:245650,3802:245906,3807:260096,4000:260408,4009:270758,4213:271334,4229:275006,4328:277166,4387:278750,4422:279254,4444:279542,4449:282200,4460$0,0:8500,106:9765,118:21346,223:22294,236:22926,245:23242,250:24032,261:24348,266:27592,290:28432,340:40584,634:41332,648:41672,654:48440,801:52600,829:57720,914:61595,963:76455,1074:77305,1108:77815,1115:79685,1152:81215,1169:82705,1185:83160,1193:83420,1198:84070,1213:88515,1281:89490,1298:90075,1333:93195,1372:93650,1381:93975,1387:95210,1424:95600,1431:100618,1481:101038,1487:101374,1492:102382,1504:102970,1512:104482,1538:108766,1636:109858,1650:114800,1713:119140,1807:121450,1866:121870,1874:122150,1879:122430,1884:122710,1889:124740,1949:129395,2040:142860,2273:143334,2284:146310,2306:148497,2351:149145,2361:151170,2434:157956,2530:158220,2535:158550,2541:158880,2548:159144,2553:162034,2622:163486,2660:164080,2671:164344,2676:164608,2681:167050,2741:167776,2755:168370,2766:169690,2797:171274,2839:172000,2852:182100,2965:183900,2984:186300,3051:187725,3077:195045,3134:195661,3143:198864,3160:199606,3168:201408,3187:201938,3193:202040,3224
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Josie Childs' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Josie Childs lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Josie Childs describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Josie Childs talks about her maternal grandparents' occupations

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Josie Childs talks about her mother's upbringing and educational background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Josie Childs describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Josie Childs describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Josie Childs remembers her stepfather

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Josie Childs recalls her early schooling

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Josie Childs remembers her influential teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Josie Childs describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Josie Childs talks about her religious experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Josie Childs talks about her childhood interests

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Josie Childs describes her high school experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Josie Childs recalls attending LeMoyne College in Memphis, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Josie Childs remembers the social scene in Memphis, Tennessee in the 1940s

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Josie Childs talks about her move to Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Josie Childs recalls her early experiences in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Josie Childs remembers joining a hunting and fishing club in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Josie Childs describes her first jobs in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Josie Childs remembers Chicago, Illinois in the 1950s

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Josie Childs recalls her early introduction to Chicago politics

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Josie Childs describes forming the Mayor's Office of Special Events with Jack Riley

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Josie Childs talks about being the first African American hired in the Chicago mayor's office

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Josie Childs describes her experience in the Chicago Mayor's Office of Special Events

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Josie Childs recalls her decision to resign from the City of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Josie Childs remembers meeting her husband James Childs, Sr.

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Josie Childs remembers helping her stepson James Childs, Jr. with his mother's funeral

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Josie Childs talks about attorney Jake Arvey's influence in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Josie Childs remembers the Silent Six on the Chicago City Council

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Josie Childs recalls talking with Harold Washington about his aspirations

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Josie Childs remembers meeting U.S. House Representative William L. Dawson

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Josie Childs recalls the changes in Chicago politics following the 1977 death of Richard J. Daley

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Josie Childs talks about Harold Washington's 1977 mayoral campaign

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Josie Childs remembers Harold Washington's campaign strategy

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Josie Childs talks about the relationship between Harold Washington and Gus Savage

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Josie Childs remembers Harold Washington's election to the U.S. House of Representatives

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Josie Childs talks about the rivalry between Harold Washington and Edward Vrdolyak

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Josie Childs describes Harold Washington's decision to run for mayor

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Josie Childs recalls voter registration efforts prior to Harold Washington's mayoral campaign

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Josie Childs describes working on campaigns with John Conyers, Jr.

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Josie Childs remembers Harold Washington's contributions to the City of Chicago

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Josie Childs recalls Harold Washington's grassroots support

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Josie Childs talks about Clarence McClain

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Josie Childs remembers Harold Washington's 1987 campaign for reelection

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Josie Childs recalls the aftermath of Harold Washington's death

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Josie Childs recalls her tenure in the Mayor's Office of Special Events

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Josie Childs describes her first firing by Lois Weisberg

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Josie Childs recalls being firing by Lois Weisberg for a second time

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Josie Childs remembers organizing the Great Lakes Experience concert

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Josie Childs recalls working with Samuel Floyd of the Columbia College Center for Black Music Research

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Josie Childs talks about exhibits commemorating Harold Washington

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Josie Childs describes the Harold Washington Tribute Committee

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Josie Childs talks about the Mikva Challenge program

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Josie Childs talks about her interest in hosting events

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Josie Childs describes her involvement with the Harold Washington Tribute Committee

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Josie Childs recalls receiving the Jorja Palmer Award

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Josie Childs describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Josie Childs reflects upon her life

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Josie Childs reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Josie Childs talks about her health

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Josie Childs describes how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$5

DAStory

6$4

DATitle
Josie Childs recalls her decision to resign from the City of Chicago
Josie Childs recalls voter registration efforts prior to Harold Washington's mayoral campaign
Transcript
Okay now tell us about now--so you were working at city hall, but there were activists protesting the lack of African Americans in city hall, right? And a lot of other things in the city?$$Well what were they march--'cause they would march from Buckingham Fountain [Chicago Illinois] to Daley's [Richard J. Daley] house, Buckingham Fountain to Daley's house. But see when I--while I was still with--Kennedy [President John Fitzgerald Kennedy] was elected while I was still with Colonel Riley 'cause we put on the parade, which was a Democratic parade, but we put on the parade for--we did all that stuff. And when the inauguration wa- the colonel got us--they--the colonel was so well versed in doing special events that when they were getting ready to do the Kennedy inauguration, and I think it was First National Bank [First National Bank of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois], I may be wrong, but they were one of the major sponsors as far as they--inauguration in Washington [D.C.] was concerned. And Washington called--no, Washington--no. First National wanted Washington to send somebody to help them put together the pieces for the inauguration and everything. And they said to First National, whomever, "You got the best person right there in the City of Chicago [Illinois]," meaning Jack Riley. So that's who you need to touch. So we did some of the stuff, I don't even remember what, for the inauguration, but then colonel went to Washington to, to, to work with the inauguration. And even got us some tickets to some stuff and we went and they had the worst blizzard you'd ever had, so we didn't do any of it.$$Was it 1961 I guess for the inauguration of John Kennedy, January '61 [1961]?$$Prob- probably it was uh-huh.$$So when were the demonstrations, were they in the?$$Oh when I said that's why I quit city hall. They pulled me and put me in--bear in mind I was on corporation counsel payroll. They put me on some division, Dick Elrod [Richard Elrod] was the head of it. And I was on--I would be on the phone, they would be calling me from the demonstration to tell me what was going on and all that kind of stuff. And then, I don't know if I should put this on record, but it's a fact, there was a restaurant in--one block down from city hall in the basement and we would go there every evening, 'cause they had night court for all the people they'd arrested all day. And we would go there in the evening and there'd be the judge, the corporation counsel, me, Dick Elrod, and we would go and they would sit there and they would determine, at dinner, what kind of sentences they were going to pass out that night. And I remember I went to work the next day, and I wasn't married to Jack [James Childs, Sr.]. But I went to work the next day and I said, "I cannot do this. I cannot be a part of this." And I called Jack and I called Bill Berry [Edwin C. Berry]. And Bill Berry wanted me to stay, he said, "You be my--you be my person inside," and I said, "I can't do it." And I called Jack and told him I was cleaning out my desk drawer, "Come get me." And he did (laughter). He told me how proud he was of me. He said, "I promise you, you will never, you'll never be out of doors and you'll never go hungry." So we got married and I started asking for things, and he said, "I didn't promise you all of that," (laughter). "I just told you you'd never be outdoors, you'd never," yeah. And I remember the--the thing that really got to me, was [HistoryMaker] Lerone Bennett, he was marching. He was a part of the marches and they were standing in front of the judge and I remember, I don't know whether they were jeans or what, but I just know they had two back pockets and he was standing with--before the judge with his hands, you know, in these back pockets and he was just shaking his head as if to say I don't believe this. And the sentences were the fines or whatever it was, I don't know, but I said, "I can't do this, I can't be a part of this." And I went to work the next day, but that's when I called, said, "Come get me," and cleaned out my desk drawer.$$Oh, I was going to ask you--$$And [HistoryMaker] Dick Gregory was a part of those marches. 'Cause I remember the first time they arrested Dick Gregory, I can't think of his name now, but one of the lawyers called me--called the office and naturally I was answering the phone; and he was scared to death 'cause he had Dick Gregory and he didn't know what to do.$What role did the voter registration campaign that Ed Gardner [HistoryMaker Edward Gardner] funded play?$$Interesting story, and I have nothing to show for it. And I raised sand with them at the time. Actually, the voter registration campaign that ultimately came together was started in Jack Childs' [Childs' husband, James Childs, Sr.] office. [HistoryMaker] Dorothy Tillman had been picketing--what did they call it, parent equalizer [Parent Equalizers of Chicago], the Mollison School [Irvin C. Mollison Elementary School, Chicago, Illinois], I think that's--$$The Mollison School, that's right.$$Okay, and she went across the street to the Alpha house [Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity] and asked them to tutor some of these kids, you know, who were out of school, the kids they were keeping out of school. And they did. And when it was over, the Alpha, one of their slogans is, "A Voteless People is Hopeless People." Donne Trotter, James Hill [ph.]--Donne Trotter, James Hill, Auggie Battiste [Auggeretto Battiste] and a fellow by the na- I think his name was Ernest Green [sic. Elliot Green], met in Jack's office. 'Cause what they were doing with Dorothy was over. And they decided that they wanted to continue on in the political whatever, whatever. And they realized registration was important. And I remember the day that they took the 3rd Ward as a pilot project, going knocking on doors, you know, getting people registered and what have you. And it was--it was going very well and it brought about a--I'm going to say reorganization 'cause was I told there must be one before, what do you call it when all the Greek organizations come together--Pan Hellenic [Chicago Pan Hellenic Council] and they were meeting at the Alpha house. This has nothing to do with Harold [Harold Washington] running, nothing to do with the plebiscite, it's just that this is what they were doing and it had grown. They'd even gotten representatives from PUSH [Operation PUSH; Rainbow PUSH Coalition, Chicago, Illinois] and everywhere. And then when--fast forward, when Harold decides to run and says, "I want however many hundred thousand votes you have to get for me," or whatever that was, they had people in place. Now Tim Black [HistoryMaker Timuel Black], you know, became the chairman of the voter registration drive or whatever, but they had people to feed into--into that. Now I used to tell Jack, now when they were doing that, I said, "You all ought to keep a record of what you're doing." Well they didn't. And the only thing that I know that happened, Lu Palmer [HistoryMaker Lutrelle "Lu" F. Palmer, II], Jack talked to Lu Palmer on the radio about what they were doing on a Sunday morning, from home it's by telephone, and there was one picture in somebody's paper of them. But other than that, there's absolutely to my knowledge no record of it. And but, they had a whole--all these Greek organizations, you know, were together. They had that together when that registration when that started. And when they did it, they had no knowledge, no thought, no idea that Harold was going to run, but they did. And he said, he wanted, was it a hundred thousand votes and fifty thousand dollars or vice versa?

The Honorable Lottie Watkins

Lottie Heywood Watkins is the retired CEO of Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc., a full-service real estate company specializing in property management. Watkins entered the real estate industry in the early 1960s and became the first African American female real estate broker in the Atlanta market. Watkins is known throughout the Atlanta business community as a shrewd businesswoman and is highly respected for the contributions she has made to civic and social affairs.

Watkins is the daughter of Susie Wilson and Eddie Heywood, a 1920s jazz pianist. Her brother, the second eldest of five children, gained critical fame with the Eddie Heywood, Jr. Trio throughout the 1940s as a songwriter, composer and pianist. Watkins was educated in the Atlanta Public School system and graduated from Booker T. Washington High School’s accelerated class in 1935. She graduated from Reid’s School of Business and became a secretary for Alexander—Calloway Realty Company. She worked as a teller/clerk at the Mutual Federal Savings and Loan Association until she started Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc.

Watkins became active with the voter’s rights campaign, the Civil Rights Movement and community–based organizations. In 1977, she was elected to the Georgia House of Representatives. She served as Co-Chair of the YMCA Membership Campaign, the American Cancer Society, and the NAACP Membership Drive and Freedom Fund Banquet. She was Chair of the Christmas Cheer Fund for the Atlanta Inquirer. Watkins has received numerous awards and citations; the Pioneer in Real Estate Award (Providence Missionary Baptist Church), Appeal of Human Rights Award (30th Anniversary Celebration of the Civil Rights Movement), Pioneer Award for Community Leadership (Empire Real Estate Board) and Outstanding Achievement in Real Estate and Business Award (Empire Real Estate Board 50th Anniversary). She was listed in Who’s Who of American Women, in Finance and Industry, Black World and International Who’s Who in Community Service and World Who’s Who of Women.

Watkins resided in her native Atlanta with her daughters and their families, Joyce and Judy, who actively operated Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc.

Watkins passed away on February 20, 2017.

Accession Number

A2006.037

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/16/2006 |and| 4/12/2006

Last Name

Watkins

Maker Category
Schools

Edmund Asa Ware Elementary School

Booker T. Washington High School

Reid's Business School

First Name

Lottie

Birth City, State, Country

Atlanta

HM ID

WAT08

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

6/4/1919

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken, Fish

Death Date

2/20/2017

Short Description

Community activist and state representative The Honorable Lottie Watkins (1919 - 2017 ) was the first African American female real estate broker in the Atlanta market, and is the founder of Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc.

Employment

Mutual Federal Savings & Loan Association of Atlanta

Alexander-Caloway Real Estate Company

Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc.

Georgia House of Representatives

Favorite Color

Pastel

Timing Pairs
0,0:444,2:1221,10:10562,125:10972,131:36968,452:37616,470:38021,476:41828,569:46931,684:48065,710:65050,861:76436,1110:97726,1308:98595,1349:101202,1401:105547,1503:127676,1738:128044,1743:134929,1820:155100,2036:155870,2047:182890,2416:187550,2476:204450,2803:207570,2847$0,0:9367,116:10681,144:11411,154:13455,192:13747,197:14331,208:14988,219:15645,231:17178,262:17689,272:23230,325:28970,382:29738,434:69635,769:83600,927:94470,1283:142830,1658
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Lottie Watkins' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes her father

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins talks about her brother, Eddie Heywood, Jr.

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes her childhood community in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers living near Zilla Mays

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes Atlanta's Providence Baptist Church

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers Edmund Asa Ware Elementary School

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers visiting Atlanta area churches

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers Booker T. Washington High School

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls working at her aunt's restaurant in Atlanta

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins talks about her father's jazz career

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls attending business school in Atlanta

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls working in Atlanta University's registrar's office

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls working for the Alexander-Calloway Realty Company

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her start at Mutual Federal Savings and Loan Association of Atlanta

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls building her home in Atlanta

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins talks about her marriages

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her training with Remington Rand, Inc.

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls how John Wesley Dobbs financed her daughter's education

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her daughter's graduation from Clark College

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers her daughter's wedding

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes Clarence A. Bacote

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes Atlanta's neighborhood clubs

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes Atlanta's African American voting districts

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her voter registration work in 1962

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes her decision to start her own business

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls managing property on Atlanta's Anderson Avenue

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls residence managers whom she employed

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers a tenant who stood up for her

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls joining Rich's Business Women's Advisory Board

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls the student protest of Rich's Department Store in Atlanta

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes forgetting an important protest at an Atlanta hotel

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes the current management of Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc.

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her run for the Georgia House of Representatives

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her Democratic Party involvement

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls campaigning for James Earl "Jimmy" Carter

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers campaigning for Ivan Allen, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins remembers Mayor Ivan Allen, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls serving on the Democratic finance committee

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls moving to a new office in Atlanta

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her office relocation from Hunter Street to Gordon Street

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes the loan for her building on Atlanta's Gordon Street

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins reflects upon her political campaigns

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins reflects upon her SCLC involvement

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins explains why she shared her story

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins describes her NAACP involvement

Tape: 4 Story: 13 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins narrates her photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lottie Watkins narrates her photographs, pt. 2

DASession

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DATape

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DATitle
The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls managing property on Atlanta's Anderson Avenue
The Honorable Lottie Watkins recalls her Democratic Party involvement
Transcript
I decided that I wanted to go into business. Now there was not another black woman in business, real estate. So--$$All the other companies were men?$$Yeah, but I decided that it was time for a lady to do something, and with me being a lady I can make a difference, you know, appearance-wise, pleading and everything. So I had an office [for Lottie Watkins Enterprises, Inc., Atlanta, Georgia]--well you cut off my dining room just about this size.$$This was when you first started out?$$Yes.$$When you first opened up?$$Y- 774 Hunter Street [Atlanta, Georgia].$$And that was in 1960?$$It--near the en- in November near the end of the year in '60 [1960].$$November of 1960, and you were like forty-something years old?$$Yeah.$$Forty-one or so?$$So I stepped in the water and everybody was so happy, people were calling me. So with me--I, I--the business was growing and during those days the whites managed all the big complexes, blacks didn't have any. So a man named Bob Chennault [Robert L. Chennault] came by and said, "I want you to go with me when you have time." I said, "Where Mr. Chennault?" He said, "I have two friends, Victor Massey [ph.], and his friend is building ninety-six units on Anderson Avenue, and I would like for them to meet you." He said, "Two other real estate companies is trying to get, get them, but I just want them to meet you." I said, "Mr. Chennault, now you know I can't go any place during the week, now I gotta stay here and take care of this business." He said, "Let me call 'em and see will they come down on a Saturday to meet you." So Mr. Chennault took me to the Healey Building [Atlanta, Georgia] on a Saturday, and I met these gentlemen, and they told me they would let me know. The next week, they wrote me a letter and asked me to come back to talk to them and I went up there and they told me they were impressed by me and they would like to give me the opportunity of filling up these units for them. I couldn't believe it, so I got them, but I kept the lawn manicured and--$$This was a property management contract?$$Yes.$$Okay.$$And I kept the shrubs trimmed, and you didn't see nothing out there but clean, clean as a pin. Oh, I had--Jasper Williams [Jasper W. Williams, Jr.] was a tenant. He's one of the biggest preachers in this town now. I had Moses Norman [Moses C. Norman, Sr.], he was superintendent of the schools, and I--there was a guy was named L.C. Crow [ph.] and Daphne [ph.]. Now Crow has a big restaurant in East Point [Georgia].$$Okay.$$He was a teacher but he--but all these guys came from Anderson Avenue, and if they got out of hand, or the music was too loud, I would say "Hey, your music was too loud," blah, blah, blah, blah. "Well we didn't know it, Ms. Watkins [HistoryMaker Lottie Watkins], we apologize," but they stayed there until they bought a house.$Let's talk a little bit about your involvement with the Democratic National Committee, the membership committee for that, and then some of your political involvements, and what you've done to help people get elected to office, and some of the presidents and the mayors of Georgia that you've actually had affiliations with.$$Well--$$I see in 1966 [sic.] you were on President Jimmy Carter's [President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.] campaign.$$Well, I--when he announced to be the president I was on the invitation. It had two blacks on it; it had me and Andy Young [HistoryMaker Andrew Young]. My name was up at the top so I got involved with his campaign and there was some good blacks, like George Booker worked for the national Democratic Party, and he had been here to help us with [President] Lyndon Baines Johnson when we got the vote out for him. So he would always come to Atlanta [Georgia]. He knew us and Jimmy Carter, I met him when he was the governor, and there was always some women like me. We always joined a party just to have that card, and then there was the Democratic Women's Party [Democratic Women's Party of Georgia; Georgia Federation of Democratic Women], so we joined that and we would go, you know, all over the State of Georgia with them and they were just--turned out to be lovely people. I was shocked to know that they were nice and even Sam Nunn's wife [Colleen O'Brien Nunn] was nice.$$Sam who? Nunn (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Nunn, he was our senator then.$$Okay.$$She was nice, and whenever there was a big function here I was always on the dais because I held an office in the state Democratic Party.$$Okay.

Paul Brock

Distinguished journalist Paul Brock was an only child born in Washington, D.C., on February 10, 1932. After attending Howard University in Washington, D.C., Brock set out on his career path.

Brock spent eighteen years as a radio journalist before moving into television producing and reporting, starting at WBNB in St. Thomas, Virgin Islands. From there, Brock went on to become news director at WETA and later WHUR in Washington, D.C. While with WETA, he was credited with bringing the first live coverage of a congressional committee hearing ever aired. Brock was also the originator, producer and chief fundraiser of the NAACP Nightly Convention Highlights program that aired on PBS from 1978 to 1983. Later, Brock served as producer, writer, editor and national distributor of the NAACP Voter Education public service announcements. The success of this was a launching point for him to move into a position as fundraiser, assistant producer, and vice president of the company that produced American Playhouse. In 1994, Brock became media coordinator of the Village Foundation, an organization working to "repair the breach" between African American males and the rest of society.

Brock left the Village Foundation in 2002, but he remains active with the NAACP, having been with the organization since 1948. He has also served as the deputy director of communications for the Democratic National Committee, vice president for news and operations at American Urban Radio Network, and is a senior fellow for public affairs at Howard University's Institute for the Study of Educational Policy. He has also been a member of the National Association of Black Journalists since 1974. In 1975, Jet and Ebony both recognized him as Man of the Year, and in 1983, Brock received the Black Filmmakers Award for Producer of the Year. Brock has four children and a wife, Virginia.

Accession Number

A2003.106

Sex

Male

Interview Date

5/14/2003 |and| 6/8/2003

Last Name

Brock

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Briggs Elementary School

P.S. 139 Frederick Douglass School

Shore Junior High School

Samuel C. Armstrong Manual Training High School

Howard University College of Pharmacy

Search Occupation Category
Speakers Bureau

Yes

Speakers Bureau Availability

Any

First Name

Paul

Birth City, State, Country

Washington

HM ID

BRO01

Speakers Bureau Preferred Audience

Flexible

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

No

Favorite Season

Late May, Early June

Speaker Bureau Notes

Preferred Audience: Flexible

State

District of Columbia

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

2/10/1932

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Sashimi

Short Description

Photojournalist Paul Brock (1932 - ) specializes in celebrity, commercial, fashion and public relations photography. His photos have been published in Ebony, Essence, Vibe and other magazines and publications.

Employment

WBNB TV

WETA TV

WHUR TV

Village Foundation

Favorite Color

Deep Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Paul Brock's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Paul Brock lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes a relative of his, West Ford, who was a slave of John Augustus Washington

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Paul Brock talks about the possibility that his relative, West Ford, was the son of President George Washington

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes his mother's family background in Gum Springs, Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Paul Brock describes his mother's childhood and career

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Paul Brock describes his childhood living near Lenox Avenue in Harlem, New York and the people that lived near him, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Paul Brock describes his childhood living near Lenox Avenue in Harlem, New York and the people that lived near him, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Paul Brock describes the sights, sounds, and smells of his childhood in Brandywine, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Paul Brock describes his experience in Georgetown, Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes moving back to Washington, D.C. in 1945 and attending Shore Junior High School and Armstrong Manual Training School

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes the one time he met his biological father, William Brock

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes his childhood interest in reading and writing

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes his mentors and prominent African Americans who lived in his Washington, D.C. community

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Paul Brock describes his social life in the Yadrutas Club in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Paul Brock talks about his favorite subjects in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Paul Brock describes his intention to major in pharmacy after graduating from high school.

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Paul Brock describes his employment during the two years he studied at the Howard University College of Pharmacy in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Paul Brock describes his experience in the U.S. Air Force and in the National Security Agency

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes leaving the National Security Agency, his wife, and Washington, D.C. to open a business in St. Thomas in 1960

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes moving to St. Thomas in the U.S. Virgin Islands and gaining custody of his children

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes working for IBM and the radio station in the U.S. Virgin Islands and being hired in television

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes anchoring television news and creating a radio jazz show in St. Thomas

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Paul Brock describes returning to the United States to work in radio after the Selma to Montgomery March in 1965

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Paul Brock describes being news director at WETA radio in Washington, D.C. and being interviewed to be news director of NPR

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Paul Brock describes his experience as news director for WHUR in Washington, D.C. in the early 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Paul Brock describes the formation of the Washington Association of Black Journalists and the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes Max Robinson, HistoryMaker Maureen Bunyan, and the founding of the National Association of Black Journalists in 1975

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes his two interns at the Democratic National Committee, Maurice Williams and HistoryMaker Barry Mayo

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes the murder of Maurice Williams by Hanafi Muslims at the Washington, D.C. City Hall in 1977

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes his being a vice president for news and operations at the Mutual Black Network

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Paul Brock talks about the difficulty of running Mutual Black Network and its importance

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Paul Brock describes reporting on the Democratic National Convention in Miami Beach, Florida in 1972 for WHUR-FM

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Paul Brock describes his experience of the Democratic National Convention in Miami Beach, Florida in 1972

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Paul Brock talks about HistoryMaker Basil Paterson and the momentum of African American politicians between the 1972 and 1976 Democratic National Conventions

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Paul Brock talks about how the political perspective of African Americans contrasts with that of white American voters

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes the Democratic National Committee after the 1972 election

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes the murder of Maurice Williams by Hanafi Muslims at the Washington, D.C. City Hall in 1977

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Paul Brock talks about his proximity to the Watergate burglary and the guard who discovered the break-in, Frank Wills

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Paul Brock describes Hamilton Jordan's strategy for convincing Democratic delegates to select Jimmy Carter as the Democratic nominee in 1976

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Paul Brock reflects on the success of President Jimmy Carter's campaign strategy

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Slating of Paul Brock's interview

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Paul Brock describes the disappointment of the Democratic coalition in Jimmy Carter's presidency

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes Ted Kennedy's campaign against President Jimmy Carter during the 1980 presidential election

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes his response to President Jimmy Carter's firing of HistoryMaker Andrew Young in 1979

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes the issues that the NAACP spoke on during the 1980 presidential election

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes his role in HistoryMaker Reverend Jesse Jackson's 1984 presidential campaign

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Paul Brock talks about HistoryMaker Milton Coleman's interview with HistoryMaker Reverend Jesse Jackson during his 1984 campaign

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Paul Brock talks about HistoryMaker Reverend Jesse Jackson's speech at the 1984 Democratic National Convention

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Paul Brock describes HistoryMaker Reverend Jesse Jackson's 1984 presidential campaign strategy

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Paul Brock describes his experience with American Playhouse, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Paul Brock describes his experience with American Playhouse, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes the life story of Denmark Vesey

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes the casting and reception of "Denmark Vesey's Rebellion"

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes his second television production, "Solomon Northrup's Odyssey"

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes the reception of "Solomon's Northrup's Odyssey" and the loss of funding for the his series with American Playhouse

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Paul Brock describes the difficulty African American historical films have reaching a teenage audience

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Paul Brock describes his experience at a screening of "Solomon Northrup's Odyssey" in Santa Monica, California

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Paul Brock describes the importance of understanding history

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Paul Brock describes how covering the Bakke case in the press informed his understanding of the black community and white journalists, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Paul Brock describes how covering the Bakke case in the press informed his understanding of the black community and white journalists, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Paul Brock describes the details of the Bakke case

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Paul Brock describes his current involvement in protecting affirmative action

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Paul Brock describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Paul Brock reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Paul Brock describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Paul Brock narrates his photographs

DASession

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DATape

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DAStory

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DATitle
Paul Brock describes returning to the United States to work in radio after the Selma to Montgomery March in 1965
Paul Brock describes his experience of the Democratic National Convention in Miami Beach, Florida in 1972
Transcript
And one day, we were listening to the radio, and the-- [Reverend Dr.] Martin Luther King [Jr.] was getting ready to cross the Edmond Pettus Bridge [in Selma, Alabama, 1965], and the kids were looking very concerned. And I asked them if they knew what was going on, and one of them replied that they thought the police were beating those negroes. That didn't sound right to me, and I asked, "Well, do you guys know any negroes?" They looked at one another and thought about it for a long while, and the I believe my oldest son said, "Dad, I believe I know one," and he named a friend of mine who had an afro long before they became popular in the states, but that was the only one they could think of. I knew--you knew, I had many friends, many multicultural friends, but the fact that they didn't know that they were negroes, I knew it was time for me to leave the Virgin Islands, and right after that, that summer, I left and came back to New York. I'm going to my friends now to see if they're ready to hire me at NBC and so forth and so on, and they wouldn't return calls, and I finally got a job part-time at Westinghouse at WINS there in New York, and was doing only part-time at KYW in Philadelphia [Pennsylvania]. And after about two years, I got a break. They interviewed me, the general counsel of ABC had or was starting this program "Wide World of Sports" and he wanted me to be in then. And he set up an interview, and supposedly they were hiring me. They said, "Oh, you're hired, don't worry," but they never brought me to work. And I recognized it was a rouse.$$Was that Barry Frank or somebody by that name?$$I'm trying to--you mean the people who interviewed me? I can't remember for some strange reason, I cannot remember. I know they--every time I'd go there, "Okay, we're going to bring you to work in three weeks." Three weeks would come and go, never happened. Finally, I just got tired of running around, just doing radio work I could pick up. Oh, by the way, at that time, I had gone back to doing typewriter and office sales for an independent company in New York just to supplement my income. I was teaching English. That's where I met the wife of the general counsel of ABC, and I realized I wasn't going to get that job even though they were saying I had it; and I got an offer from Smith-Corona to come Washington [D.C.]. And I took that job, and went home with my kids.$$Was that a sales job?$$Yes, a sales job. I was given the major federal agencies, Howard University. I mean they made the deal so sweet, and I knew I could make much more than I could part time at Westinghouse and no time at Wide World of Sports with them making excuses, so that's what brought me back to Washington.$We were talking last time I think about the Democratic [National] Convention of 1972 [in Miami Beach, Florida].$$Alright.$$Can you tell us about your role in that?$$Yeah, that was a historic convention in many ways. I was a news director for a station in Washington, D.C., a radio station in Washington, D.C. WHUR-FM and we somehow scrapped the bottom of the barrel to get a couple of reporters to get a couple of reporters to that convention to cover it for our Washington D.C. audience. We went to Miami [Florida], and at that convention, of course, it was historic for a number of reasons. A) It was the convention where Shirley Chisholm announced, threw her hat into the ring and ran for president, of for the presidential democratic nomination at that convention. It was the convention where a number of African Americans wanted to play a pivotal role in that convention because they knew they held a certain percentage, a very important percentage, of that vote that the Democrats were gonna have to depend on. And so people like [Robert] Sonny Carson went down, and they were urging their people to get out and vote in New York City [New York]. And some of the other civic leaders, grassroots leaders, gang leaders in various cities, including Chicago [Illinois], Los Angeles [California] were going to urging their people to get out and vote, to take part in that democratic process. We were down to cover it for-- George Wallace was one of the people down for that democratic convention. I remember that well because one of my reporters who was Trinidad was not aware of George Wallace's previous reputation; and looking for him one day, I couldn't find him and there he and George Wallace were just having a great pow-wow and enjoying themselves. And I think I was very, very surprised at that moment, but most important, I think, besides Shirley Chisholm trying to run, the Maynard Jacksons and the [HM] Julian Bonds, trying to get the black community from all over the states--the United States to pull their power together behind a candidate was very, very important. The black vote was not promised to any one individual, not even Shirley Chisholm and they wanted--the Julian Bonds and the Maynard Jacksons of the world, the [HM] Basil Patersons of the New York, the Charles Evers of the Mississippi and so forth, they wanted to negotiate with the power structure there at that convention to get the very best deal that they could of the recognition of the power that they had and what they brought to the party. And, of course, George McGovern was a leading candidate at that convention, and eventually, of course, did win the nomination.$$McGovern is described as the only honest man in the senate at one point by one of the Kennedys (unclear).$$I was not aware of that statement, but it's certainly an excellent statement. How true it is, I have no idea, but I do know that once he was on the verge of winning that nomination to get him over that final hump, Charlie Evers forced McGovern to deal with African Americans at that convention and that we wanted a piece of the pie, we wanted the chair of the Democratic party. And McGovern was not going to give that up, but, finally, the negotiations came down to the vice chair and they looked at some names and finally they settled on the name of [HM] Basil Paterson to be the vice chair of the democratic party, and, of course, this was as high as any black had come.