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Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth

One of the most relentless figures of the Civil Rights Movement, the Reverend Fred Lee Shuttlesworth was born on March 18, 1922, in Montgomery County, Alabama. His biological father was Vetta Greene. However, Shuttlesworth was raised by his mother, Alberta Robinson Shuttlesworth and his stepfather, William Nathan Shuttlesworth, a farmer in rural Oxmoor, Alabama. Shuttlesworth attended Oxmoor Elementary School where he was mentored by teacher Israel Ramsey. He started as a student at Wenonah School, but graduated from Rosedale High School in 1940. Shuttlesworth married Ruby Keeler, a nurse, in 1941 and moved to Mobile in 1943 where he became a truck driver and studied auto mechanics. Rev. E.A. Palmer encouraged Shuttlesworth to attend Cedar Grove Academy, a local bible college. In 1945, he delivered a sermon at Selma University and decided to pursue his A.B. degree there and later at Alabama State College. By 1950, Shuttlesworth was the pastor of First Baptist Church in Selma, Alabama, and in 1953, he returned to Birmingham as pastor of Bethel Baptist Church.

In May of 1956, at a mass meeting at Bethel, Shuttlesworth established the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights (ACMHR). In December of that year, the United States Supreme Court ruled that bus segregation in Montgomery, Alabama, was illegal. Shuttlesworth immediately announced that the ACMHR was going to test segregation laws in Birmingham. On Christmas night the Shuttlesworth house was blown up by sixteen sticks of Ku Klux Klan dynamite. Shuttlesworth, who landed in the basement and whose bedroom was blown apart, and visiting Deacon Charles Robinson were unharmed. Shuttlesworth, then, led a rally the very next day. He was beaten by police in 1957 for trying to enroll his daughter in an all white school and that same year joined with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Ralph David Abernathy, and Bayard Rustin to form the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). He also assisted the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) in organizing the Freedom Rides. Shuttlesworth was hospitalized in 1963 as a result of being attacked by Sheriff Bull Connor’s water cannons as he led a mass nonviolent demonstration. However, Shuttlesworth continued to work to secure Birmingham’s public accommodations and the desegregation of its schools.

In 1966, Shuttlesworth became the pastor of the Greater New Light Baptist Church in Cincinnati, Ohio, and served as founding director of the Shuttlesworth Housing Foundation. The recipient of numerous awards, Shuttlesworth was a remarkable figure and unsung hero of the Civil Rights Movement.

Shuttlesworth passed away on October 5, 2011.

Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 25, 2006.

Accession Number

A2006.053

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/25/2006

Last Name

Shuttlesworth

Maker Category
Schools

Rosedale High School

Wenonah School

Oxmoor Elementary School

Selma University

Cedar Grove Preparatory Academy

First Name

Fred

Birth City, State, Country

Montgomery

HM ID

SHU01

Favorite Season

None

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Alabama

Interview Description
Birth Date

3/18/1922

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Birmingham

Country

USA

Favorite Food

None

Death Date

10/5/2011

Short Description

Civil rights activist, pastor, and foundation executive Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth (1922 - 2011 ) established the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights (ACMHR) in 1956, and joined Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Ralph David Abernathy, and Bayard Rustin to form the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) in 1956. In 1966, Shuttlesworth became the pastor of the Greater New Light Baptist Church in Cincinnati, Ohio, and served as founding director of the Shuttlesworth Housing Foundation.

Employment

First Baptist Church of Selma

Bethel Baptist Church

Revelation Baptist Church

Greater New Light Baptist Church

Favorite Color

Pink, Yellow

Timing Pairs
0,0:1536,208:79240,1163:89190,1256:102528,1453:134064,1806:162480,1982:163429,2075:169196,2167:191377,2469:226027,3136:228985,3261:231595,3398:258190,3633$0,0:285,42:1520,56:2280,260:60670,837:90580,1161:99028,1262:111499,1451:150116,1939:228498,2574:229770,2614:233881,2838:251030,3154
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his biological father

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his stepfather

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes Oxmoor, Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth talks about his father and stepfather

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers Oxmoor Elementary School near Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls St. Matthew A.M.E. Church Oxmoor

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth talks about early transit in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers his grandfather's mule, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers his grandfather's mule, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his stepfather's bootlegging operations

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his stepfather's treatment of his children

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his parents' relationship, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his parents' relationship, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers his stepfather's stature

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his teacher at Oxmoor Elementary School, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his teacher at Oxmoor Elementary School, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes Rosedale High School

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers his stepfather's death

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his teachers at Rosedale High School

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls the white residents of Oxmoor, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers his arrest for bootlegging

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his work experiences after high school

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls meeting his wife, Ruby Keeler Shuttlesworth

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers the early years of his marriage

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls moving to Mobile, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his home in Mobile, Alabama, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his home in Mobile, Alabama, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers his call to ministry in Mobile, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls joining the Baptist church

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls speaking at Selma University in Selma, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his house in Mobile, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls attending Selma University

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls preaching at First Baptist Church of Selma, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls preaching at First Baptist Church of Selma, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers pastoring First Baptist Church of Selma

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his invitation to pastor Bethel Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his sermons

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his civil rights activity in Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his first sermon at Bethel Baptist Church

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his activism as a preacher

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth describes his entry to the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls the prohibition of the NAACP in Alabama

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls organizing the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers the bombing of his home, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers the bombing of his home, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

4$6

DATitle
Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth recalls his invitation to pastor Bethel Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama
Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth remembers the bombing of his home, pt. 2
Transcript
So well how did you get the church in Birmingham [Alabama]? How did you--?$$Accident.$$Okay what happened?$$I was getting ready to--I wanted to go to Florida. T.J. Hale [ph.] who was pastor, see the biggest church there, can't think of the name of it. Think of it in a minute. He was going to Florida to preach. D.L. Motley was pastor of the church in Mobile [Alabama] and he had been called to Bethel Baptist Church in Birmingham. Look how the incidental, coincidental this is. And T.J. Hale said well--and Motley was somewhere in, one of the churches talking. I said, "Well I want to go to Florida. I want to go to Pensacola [Florida] out there." And he was going that day. He said, well Motley said, "Well I look, I'm called to Bethel Church in Birmingham, and I can't go Sunday so they want me to send somebody. So I'm asking you to go." I said, "Well no I don't go to no church preaching. I'm not interested in it, it's yours. You just tell them." He said "But they want you, they want you to come." They didn't know me. My uncle, wife's [Ruby Keeler Shuttlesworth] uncle lived in Birmingham as you know. But I had never been to Bethel. I didn't know anything about the church. He said, well so Reverend Hale said, "Well look, I'm going to Florida again in two or three months and you can go down there and be preaching and be heard if you want to." And I go then, so that made me say, Motley said, "Well fool, you can get you some grits, you know." You know and I didn't have no church. And four children now, see. I said, "Well I'll go, but I ain't going up there but one time and preach for you." So I went up and preached at Bethel that Sunday morning. And boy it was like cheerleading segment. People just took, I got--I didn't preach about twenty-five, thirty minutes that time. And they said, "Get that man's address. We want him. We want this man to preach." We, well someone was saying, "If we heard this man, we never would have called that--." And this is embarrassing to me, just to go and preach you know. And I'm making it sure in my mind I wouldn't come back again. And so that week Motley called, "They say they want you back at Bethel next." I said, "I ain't coming, I ain't going back, I told you the first time I wasn't coming back." I said, "I don't play with the church." I wasn't, I wasn't gonna to--he said, "Well no, I just can't go Sunday." I said, "But Motley ain't no use in us lying to each other, we're friends. You gonna need--," I said, "I am not interested in that church." He said, "Well I got to do something else and I, I would be telling them that I would come back that next--." I said, "Well if you let me tell them you coming next Thursday, I'll go tell, go then." So I went back and preached. And boy it, they just took--it was just like your hands going in the glove, tremendous. So I told them he was coming that Thursday night. I say, "He said he'd be here to see y'all Thursday night." That Thursday night it rained. You ever see in the day time when it rain so bad, get dark and cloudy and you can't, you can't even see the road hardly to drive, see cars pulling over. Well that night, that Thursday afternoon, that night he was supposed to be there, it was like that. It was pouring down rain. But they unanimously met out there and called me and didn't know me. It had to be God or somebody and look at the work I've done in--and that church was bombed twice while I was there. I told them, I said if I stay here, it might get bombed again. So that, that had to be God. So God moves in human affairs once in a while. Go ahead.$What--do you remember? Well just tell us what else you remember about what happened that night. You were, you were talking to one of the deacons.$$He was talking to me, he was sitting by my bed. I had a mirror near 'bout, not quite wide as that thing. And that bomb went off. I knew what, I knew it was meant for me like I'm looking at you again. I mean directly. I knew I wouldn't get hurt. How did I know? I was comforted. I knew I wasn't gonna get hurt. I was not afraid of dying. In fact I felt better. I don't think any baby ever felt as comfortable or even more comfortable at his mother's breast. As to what was on my mind at the time the bomb went off, was this 27 Psalm, "The Lord is my light and my salvation" [Psalm 27:1]. I knew it was a bomb. I knew I wouldn't get hurt. I was not afraid of dying. I could understand that God was there. And look like I just, I could discern my conscience, look I'm here. And so I never felt better. So this, this wall was flew--blown out from under the bed, the springs was shattered. We didn't find any large pieces of fingers (unclear), these three fingers--springs I'm talking about. The wall between my head and the dynamite was blown away at least to the corner of that thing there like that. That--course my teeth was sitting on the, on the floor.$$You're talking about, about ten, fifteen feet away, right?$$Yeah, yeah, right. And that mirror was shattered I guess into a million pieces (unclear). He got two, two or three little pin pricks in his head. Didn't no blood run. He was stunned I think. He said the Lord saved me because I was with you. I said that he did Charlie, Charlie Robinson [Charles Robinson] was his name.$$Sully Robinson?$$Charlie, Charlie.$$Charlie, okay.$$Charlie, Charles Robinson. Floor was blown out from under the bed. Part of the floor was arced up into a little open face. (Unclear) put the heat out, the wall, the center wall of the house now, was like this. It was about thirty something degrees. Not standing straight up. About three or four hundred slithers of wood from that wall behind my head was stuck into that wall, into a coat and hat I had on that wall. And we, when we found the head of the bed where my, my head--I'm in bed. But a, a shaft of wood had come through that head of my bed and probably traveled a little further than, might have been driven into my brain where I was lying.$$This is incredible. I mean, I mean that--$$God's more than incredible. That's what I'm says, that's why he can handle incredible things (laughter). That, tomorrow, all this. I have no, I have problem telling you.$$So I mean, so this is fully documented. You walked away from a bombing.$$Yes sir.$$When things all around you were destroyed.$$Absolutely.$$And you led a march the next day, right?$$Like I said I would, um-hm. I never say I'm gonna do something I don't do.$$So were, were you stunned at all by any of this, or did you--$$(Shakes head) Never felt better. Never had a, felt a little (unclear) fire he can't put out. He say I got a bump. I said that's a writer's bump, I never had any bump. Not even a scratch.

Wilhelmina Rolark

Lifelong civil rights and community activist, attorney and politician Wilhelmina Rolark was born on September 27, 1916 in Portsmouth, Virginia. She attended Truxton elementary school in the Truxton area of Portsmouth until seventh grade. In 1933, Rolark graduated from I.C. Norcum High School in Portsmouth .

Following her high school graduation, Rolark attended Howard University from 1933-1937 where she earned bachelor’s and master’s of arts degrees in political science. While at Howard, she studied under Ralph Bunche. In 1944, while working at the Treasury Department and going to law school at night, she earned her bachelor’s of law degree from the Robert H. Terrell Law School in Washington, D.C.

As a young attorney practicing law in the 1940s, she worked on many civil rights cases. In 1970, she founded the National Association of Black Women Attorneys. Following on the footsteps of a successful law career, she set her sights on politics.

In 1969, Rolark and her husband, the late Dr. Calvin Rolark, founded the United Black Fund, a non-profit organization that provides funding to community-based organizations. Rolark served as the group’s General Counsel, where she won major legal battles against United Givers Fund and the Civil Service Commission discriminating against black and other minorities.

In 1976, Rolark was elected to represent residents of Ward 8 on the Washington, D.C. city council, where she went on to serve four consecutive terms. While on the council, she chaired several committees including the committee on Employment and Economic Development, Public Service and Consumer Affairs and Judiciary. Rolark also served on the Sentencing Guidelines Commission of the D.C. Superior court.

As a legislator, Rolark was responsible for a number of laws including the legislation that created the D.C. Energy Office, the Bank Depository Act, the law that triples the penalties for PCP distribution and the law that brought cable television to D.C.

Upon the untimely death of her husband in 1994, she was unanimously elected as the President /CEO of the United Black Fund, a position she held for twelve years. Rolark also served on the National Board of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

Rolark passed away on February 14, 2006.

Accession Number

A2004.053

Sex

Female

Interview Date

5/19/2004

Last Name

Rolark

Maker Category
Middle Name

Wilhelmina

Organizations
Schools

Truxton Elementary School

I.C. Norcom High School

Robert H. Terrell Law School

Howard University

First Name

Margaret

Birth City, State, Country

Portsmouth

HM ID

ROL01

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

Keep On Pushing.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Interview Description
Birth Date

9/27/1916

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Vegetables

Death Date

2/14/2006

Short Description

Foundation chief executive Wilhelmina Rolark (1916 - 2006 ) founded the United Black Fund, and the National Association of Black Women Attorneys. In 1976, she was elected to the Washington, D.C. City Council, where she went on to serve four consecutive terms, and was later unanimously elected as the President /CEO of the United Black Fund.

Employment

United States Treasury Department

National Association of Black Women Attorneys

United Black Fund

Council of the District of Columbia

Favorite Color

Black, Red

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Wilhelmina Rolark's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Wilhelmina Rolark lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her paternal and maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her father

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes the importance of education in her family

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Wilhelmina Rolark shares her earliest childhood memories of growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her siblings and her community in Portsmouth, Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Wilhelmina Rolark remembers the sights, sounds and smells of growing up in Portsmouth, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her experience at Truxton Elementary School in Portsmouth, Virginia and remembers childhood friends

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about The Norfolk Journal and Guide and her mother's communication skills

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Wilhelmina Rolark remembers going to church as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her sister and the parties her family had

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her teenage years and I. C. Norcom High School in Portsmouth, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her experience as an undergraduate at Howard University in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about earning her master's degree at Howard University in Washington, D.C. and working in the U.S. Treasury Department

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her experience at Robert H. Terrell Law School in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Wilhelmina Rolark explains how she learned to run a law practice

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about integration's effect on African American businesses

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about meeting her husband, Calvin Rolark

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes running for the Council of the District of Columbia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the incarceration of African Americans and its effect on African American families

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes the energy bill that created the D.C. Energy Office in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about chairing the judiciary committee of the Council of the District of Columbia and her efforts to reform sentencing guidelines

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Wilhelmina Rolark reflects upon her achievements on the Council of the District of Columbia and segregated communities

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the importance of young people voting

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her and her husband's involvement in the Southern Christian leadership Conference (SCLC)

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the 1939 Alexandria Library Sit-In and the 1962 Howard Johnson Restaurant Sit-In

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the National Association of Black Women Attorneys

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Wilhelmina Rolark recalls fighting to keep The University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law in Washington, D.C. open

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the United Black Fund, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her concerns for the Washington, D.C. community

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about working with Washington, D.C. mayors, including HistoryMaker Marion Barry

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes her hope for the youth to vote

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the importance of education in the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about her column in The Washington Observer and affirmative action

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Wilhelmina Rolark reflects upon her life

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Wilhelmina Rolark describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the importance of history

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Wilhelmina Rolark reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Wilhelmina Rolark narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

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DAStory

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DATitle
Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the 1939 Alexandria Library Sit-In and the 1962 Howard Johnson Restaurant Sit-In
Wilhelmina Rolark talks about the National Association of Black Women Attorneys
Transcript
So Ms. Rolark [HM Wilhelmina Rolark], tell me about that story we were talking about, Brown v. The Board of Education [Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, 1954]. But you said there was also another public case?$$Oh yeah, there was, there, there was the one of the first sit-ins took place in Alexandria, Virginia, where two lawyers, young lawyers the Tucker brothers, Otto Tucker and Samuel Tucker, sat-in in the library [Alexandria Library, later, Barrett Branch Library] in Virginia (laughter) in Alexandria, Virginia. You know Virginia is a tough state to do anything like that in. And they were arrested of course, and as a result of that case, they were arrested and went to court and all the rest of it. That was, to my knowledge, among the first sit-ins, it could have been the first, but I know it was among them. They wouldn't move, that particular library in which they staged hat has now become a historical site. It's been made a historical site in Alexandria. People come from all over to visit it, and there has been story written about it because you know, it was just unheard of. That they, number one, would sit-in at Howard Johnson [Ice Cream Parlor and Restaurant, Durham, North Carolina], you know which was looked upon as whites sitting there eating all kinds of fancy ice cream and what not. And one of the brothers said, "I just want to see how that ice cream taste sittin' at the (laughter)"--it was some exciting times you know. And they pulled it off, and although it seemed to be small it was--had a huge impact because it was blacks participating in just a, just a simple thing like eating a bowl of ice cream. Where people could come from a whole public, unless you were black, and sit down and eat ice cream. You know Howard Johnson was famous for variety, you know all kinds of famous kinds of ice cream that you could eat, but we couldn't go there because we were black. And so--that means a lot too 'cause you know children, for instance, they'll worry you to death about an ice cream cone or eat ice cream, see they can do that now. And so you look back--and the library itself, which was a public library, but the blacks couldn't use it. It has now become a historical site and people come from all over to visit that library in Alexandria, in Alexandria. That little library has now become a memorial site because it was made open--public library should have been public all along. People can't realize you had to, you had to go through a session like that in order to get the use of the library, and you encouraged your children to read and study, but if you can't go to the library, what--where are you going to get the material to read and study?$And Ms. Rolark, if you will, tell me a little bit about an organization that you founded in the '70s [1970s], the National Association of Black Women Attorneys [NABWA]. Why did you think it was necessary to create such an organization?$$Well, to me that organization did a great job in defeating the notion that to be a lawyer you had to be a man. Which is sexism, because next to racism, sexism is a very bad thing, I think and so that was my motivation in doing it. Because everything that we were doing in law was headed by a guy, you know, and there are plenty of smart women lawyers too. And so it was formed and we formed it after a meeting at the National Bar Association held in--I think we were in Detroit [Michigan] that year and it was controversial. 'Cause see some of the fellas didn't like the idea of forming it, why'd you have to have two of them, you know. They have The [National] Bar Association as well as the National Association of Black Women Attorneys, why you need both? We need both to show that women were just as proficient as men in runnin' and managin' an organization like that, it had become very well-known and it's very active and I'm just semi-retired now so I'm not that active in it, but it meets when the Bar Association meets. It's quite a good organization. And it has inspired quite a few young women to take law. That was the other reason for doing it.$$And what do you think it's like for women lawyers today compared to what it was like for you when you started?$$It's much different, yes indeed, much different. For instance, now you have women lawyers with president of the National Bar Association. Not, the National Association of Black Women Attorneys, but the big Bar Association itself. Women have run and have become the officers, in fact they have a woman president now and one of the first presidents came from Detroit.$$And what was it like when you were, when you began your law career for women?$$Well, I didn't think about that, I was just thinking about winning those cases that I had. But, it was tough, you know, it was tough for women, all of them white, black, you know--primarily a man's field. But now you have women judges, in fact you've got a woman member of the [U.S.] Supreme Court. And, you have chief judges, who are women, like Chief Judge [Annice] Wagner here in the District of Columbia she's chief judge of our Circuit Court of Appeals here. Excellent judge too.$$And when you look at how far women, more particularly African American women have progressed in terms of the field of law and you were there blazing the trail, how do you feel?$$I feel good about that. I feel very happy about that because I think it's a field that, you know, it's like anything else, if it's opened up like that it gives, say girls when they go to court--when they go to college, and take up a career, they can look upon law as not only to practice, but you have women judges now, you have women chief judges, you know black women, a chief judge. As I said, over there in our circuit court you have Judge Wagner, she's our chief judge there and you have them in Superior [sic, Supreme] Court. You have black women who are judges and chief judges of that. And it gives them something to aspire to, you know, and it gives them a real good motive for carryin' on and stayin' in school and preparing their children, you know, for different vocations.

Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter

Minister and community activist Rev. Kwame John R. Porter, Ph.D. was born on April 2, 1932 in Mineral Springs, Arkansas to Steve Porter and Retha Hendricks-Porter. In 1939, when Porter was eight years old, his family moved to Kansas City, Kansas. He graduated from Douglass Elementary School in Kansas City in 1945, then from Northeast Junior High School in 1948, and subsequently from Sumner High School in 1951. Porter received his Associate Arts degree from Kansas Community College in 1953. After attending Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa for one year, Porter enlisted in the U.S. Army in October 1954, and was stationed at Ft. Bliss in Texas, Ft. Smith in Arkansas, and Ft. Carson in Colorado. In 1955, Porter reported to Ulm, Germany, where he remained until receiving an honorable discharge in August 1957.

In September of 1957, Porter returned to the U.S. and enrolled at Iowa Wesleyan College in Mt. Pleasant, Iowa. He graduated in 1959 with his B.A. degree in Sociology and minors in Religion, Philosophy and Education. Following graduation, Porter was awarded a three-year fellowship grant to explore the Christian ministry at Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary in Evanston, Illinois. In February of 1960, he co-organized the local CORE (Congress of Racial Equality) chapter. Under his leadership, the chapter protested Woolworth stores in support of the Southern Student Sit-In Movement. In 1961, Porter became the first African American elected as President of the Dempster League. In 1962, he received his M.A. degree in Divinity from Garrett Seminary. Following graduation, Porter was appointed as assistant pastor under Rev. Harry Connor at the Normal Park United Methodist Church (UMC) in Englewood, and then as full-time pastor at the Christ UMC in that community.

In August 1962, Porter joined Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and thousands of non-violent protesters at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference’s (SCLC) first mass anti-segregation demonstration in Albany, Georgia. Porter was jailed for six days following the event. In August 1963, Porter attended the March on Washington; and, in 1965, he assembled eighty Chicago residents to attend the voting rights march in Selma, Alabama. In the spring of 1964, Dr. King and the SCLC leadership gave Porter permission to launch SCLC’s first Chicago chapter. Porter mobilized ten thousand Englewood residents for Dr. King’s “Get Out the Vote Rally” on October 29, 1964. Porter’s church in Englewood served as one of the rallying points for a series of anti-segregation marches into all-white neighborhoods, when the Chicago Freedom Movement invited Dr. King and his staff to spend summer of 1966 in Chicago.

From 1968 to 1970, Porter taught as Adjunct Professor at Northeastern Illinois University’s Center for Inner City Studies. In 1970, he taught an African American History course at George Williams College in Downers Grove, Illinois. From 1971 to 1974, Porter served as Dean of the Chicago Center for Black Religious Studies. He then served as Urban Vice President for Young Life International from 1974 until 1979. He also earned his Ph.D. degree in Interdisciplinary Sociology from Union Graduate School (now Union Institute & University) in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1975.

Porter is the author of six books and has received numerous honors for his commitment to social and racial justice. Porter and his wife, June, reside in Chicago’s Hyde Park community and have six children, thirteen grandchildren, and six great-grandchildren.

Porter passed away on April 7, 2019.

Kwame John R. Porter was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 10, 2003.

Accession Number

A2003.293

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/10/2003

Last Name

Porter

Maker Category
Middle Name

John

Schools

Sumner Academy of Arts and Science

Douglass Elementary School

Northeast Junior High School

Iowa Wesleyan University

Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary

First Name

Kwame

Birth City, State, Country

Mineral Springs

HM ID

POR03

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Arkansas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Southern United States

Favorite Quote

We Are Either Transformers Of The Society With Which We Live, Or We Are Transformed And Deformed By It.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Interview Description
Birth Date

4/2/1932

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Chicken, Fish

Death Date

4/7/2019

Short Description

Community activist and minister Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter (1932 - 2019) was a founder of Operation PUSH, and taught at George Williams College and at Northeastern Illinois University’s Center for Inner City Studies. Porter also served as graduate dean of the Chicago Center for Black Religious Studies and Vice President of Urban Affairs for Young Life International.

Employment

Christ United Methodist Church

George Williams College

Northeastern Illinois University

Chicago Center for Black Religious Studies

Young Life International

Chicago Alliance for Neighborhood Safety

Fellowship United Methodist Church

Favorite Color

Red

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter's interview, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Slating of Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter's interview, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his mother's family

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his family tree

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter shares family stories from the Reconstruction era

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter shares a story about a folk hero from Tollette, Arkansas

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter shares a story about a traditional healer in his parents' community, "Aunt Caroline" Dye, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the sixth sense present in his family

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about African naming rituals

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his mother's troubled marriage to his stepfather

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his father

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his father

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the rift in his father's family

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes how his parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers meeting the woman his father went with to California

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter explains why he did not have contact with his father

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter lists his siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls the sights, sounds, and smells of growing up in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers Douglass Elementary School in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls his experience at Northeast Junior High School in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers his time at Sumner High School in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers joining Mason Memorial United Methodist Church in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the importance of black heroes and black athletes in his childhood

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers seeing Satchel Paige and Joe Louis

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his father-in-law's influence

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter lists the influential male role models from his youth, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter lists the influential male role models from his youth, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his childhood home in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his experience at Kansas City Kansas Community College in Kansas City, Kansas

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls playing intramural basketball for a Jewish fraternity at Drake University

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter details his travels with the U.S. Army

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter explains why he left the U.S. Army upon learning about the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his experience at Iowa Wesleyan College

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers Dr. Warren Steinkraus

Tape: 3 Story: 13 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers Tom Mboya

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his evolving view of preachers

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter names some of his memorable professor at Garrett Theological Seminary in Evanston, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his experience at Garrett Theological Seminary in Evanston, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers his first job as assistant pastor at Normal Park Methodist Episcopal Church

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls being invited by Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to a protest in Albany, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers his experience demonstrating in Albany, Georgia in 1962

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls fighting against racism in Chicago, Illinois in 1962

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter explains the differences between the Baptist and Methodist churches

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the support for social movements in the United Methodist Church

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers important civil rights events in Chicago, Illinois during the 1960s

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls the organizing that occurred for the marches in Selma, Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls HistoryMaker Jesse Jackson's involvement with SCLC and Operation Breadbasket

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter dispels rumors regarding HistoryMaker Reverend Jesse L. Jackson

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter explains the aftermath of Dr. King's assassination in Englewood, Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls the many programs that Christ United Methodist Church supported

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers the Chicago chapter of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC), pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers the Chicago chapter of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC), pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers the people involved in the Chicago Freedom Movement

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls giving a prayer at Harold Washington's mayoral campaign announcement in 1982

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers important figures in the Chicago Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes community organizations in Englewood, Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers Hal Baskin's community organizing in the Chicago, Illinois neighborhood of Englewood

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about various community groups that developed in Englewood, Chicago, Illinois in the 1990s

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about his family's accomplishments

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the Black United Front

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his theological philosophy, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his theological philosophy, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his theological philosophy, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter shares a story about a traditional healer in his parents' community, "Aunt Caroline" Dye, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter shares a story about an African shaman

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the need for black theology

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter reflects upon his legacy, pt.1

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the formation of the New Englewood Historical Society

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter reflects upon his legacy pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers helping HistoryMakers Louis Farrakhan and Bobby Rush

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the need for determination and concern in the African American community

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter considers what he would have done differently

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

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DATape

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DATitle
Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter talks about the importance of black heroes and black athletes in his childhood
Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter explains the aftermath of Dr. King's assassination in Englewood, Chicago, Illinois
Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter remembers his experience demonstrating in Albany, Georgia in 1962
Reverend Dr. Kwame John R. Porter recalls giving a prayer at Harold Washington's mayoral campaign announcement in 1982
Transcript
You were not only an athlete, but you read a lot, went to the library. And you had an integrated library [Kansas City Public Library] there in--$$Yeah.$$--Kansas City [Kansas], right?$$Yeah, I--$$And what--$$--I probably--$$--kind of books did you--$$--read a book a week.$$--did you read?$$I liked books that were adventurous, that dealt with conquering, that is when I say conquering, where African or black people were involved and given the leadership to conquering or was it just something--and I had some white heroes to go to comic books and things like that, Superman, Captain Marvel, Popeye, you know, (unclear)--limited--but, but, but I also looked to see where I was in there, my image. I always looked. And what it (unclear) me was a--this was not taught in the high school [Sumner High School, later Sumner Academy of Arts and Sciences, Kansas City, Kansas] like it should have been. They, they--'cause they--no, the curriculum was determined by the white superintendent, and so that very few blacks taught in world history. They had Negro History Week--didn't--(unclear)--Carter G. Woodson. We did the--(unclear)--always had somebody come in and espouse during that week and something like that, but a lot of kids had went over their head. So I wanted to read about that now, particularly the classic magazines. I just got a lot of the classics, colorful and I got a lot out of reading Booker T. Washington's story 'Up From Slavery' and George Washington Carver took the peanut and sweet potatoes and made a few other products. That really intrigued me. I got a lot out of reading about the--it was The Men of Morehouse ['History of Morehouse College'], Dr. [Benjamin Griffith] Brawley, and some great black men who made their way. The black man [A.G. Gaston] in Birmingham [Alabama] was a millionaire, insurance man.$$Right, I know who you're talking about, but I can't think of his name now, but--$$And in the course of, course of being an athlete, what got me was the, the athletic heroes, Jesse Owens; Eulace Peacock was right behind Jesse, Ralph Metcalfe [Sr.]. The boxing heroes, Sugar Ray [Walker Smith] Robinson [Jr.], Bobby Joe Gans, "Boston Tar Baby" [Samuel] Sam Langford, way back there, reading about them, Joe Louis. At that time we had radio. I remember when Joe would fight, and we'd have radio in the store, black store, black--a black guy owned a store right behind where I lived, Mr. Taylor [ph.]. He'd have a radio loud so we could hear it. Everybody didn't have a radio. And we'd stopped playing everything and just listened, and blow by blow, and this was through all the country, black folk glued to the radio, Joe, Joe. We didn't have he--visible heroes, you know. Jackie [Robinson] was a hero, but Jackie was not as well publicized as Joe. And this integration of baseball, you know, with the Kansas City Monarchs had a new Negro League, it didn't touch black people like the Harlem Globetrotters did. That's why the Globetrotters were much more, much closer to us, a lot more of our boys play ball than baseball, or than track.$Sixty-seven [1967] [H.] Rap Brown [later, Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin] spoke at the church out in Englewood [Chicago, Illinois], I think it was, had about 2,000 people out to hear Rap speak on new politics. He was the new chairman of SNCC [Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee]. Sixty-eight [1968] [Reverend Dr.] Martin [Luther King, Jr.] was, Martin was, was assassinated, and the cities, 225 cities had riots (unclear). Englewood did not rebel, partly I think because [David] Dave Barksdale who was--he's dead now--was founder of the Black Disciples, Gangster Disciples. Dave was a Devil's Disciple. David sent a suicide squad to my home next to a church. So they heard about it. They asked [HM] Reverend [Dr. Kwame John R.] Porter respect they have for us 'cause we, he got introduction to Dr. King, chance to shake his hand, chance to march with him, you know. And for those guys to get a leadership in one of them gangs, that was the height of their career, meet such a great man, although they themselves were violent orientated somewhat. Now, David--I told David--I told the guys to tell David it's on. They burned up the West Side [Chicago, Illinois]; they burning in Woodlawn [Chicago, Illinois]. Don't do it in Englewood. Protect 63rd [Street] and Halsted [Street]. So the record will show that you guys saved 63rd and Halsted from burning down, to keep the looters out of there, and they did that, they did that. Now let the record show that. They were never given credit for that, Disciples gang. They did that, you know. That's the kind of relationship you can have in the community when you an indigenized member, a for-real member of the community. People trust you, believe it. You ain't, you ain't faked on 'em or gone west on 'em.$What happened when you got to Albany [Georgia]?$$Got to Albany, they met us at the [Albany] Airport [later Southwest Georgia Regional Airport]; then a bus took us to the church. Significance of the, of the, of the real black church, there's always a real black church in the midst of phony black church, I discovered too. And they took us to the church. The ministers with a real commitment, not afraid of the church being bombed, 'cause you all know they bombed about a hundred churches this whole period, '60s [1960s]. And these were the churches, the most active mostly. Ministers took the word of God serious--and took us to this--there was a meeting and so many people there meeting at about five churches, must have been three or four thousand people (unclear) world, all kind of people. There were mass demonstrations downtown, closed downtown down. These cash registers started backing up on the white segregation, they, they, they, they finally sit down. They took (unclear)--Albany was a hard nut to--didn't crack Albany in a month. It took, took a couple of years--got over into Birmingham [Alabama] '63 [1963] before Albany fell. But that effort loosened it up, jarred and loosened it. More than that, it put hope in black people's backbone in the black people of Albany, those who came there, and the white people who was decent, who were fair and willing to work with us, backbone in them. It made us better men and women. We were not afraid of suffering, not afraid of being killed, not afraid of being beaten, we're not afraid of even death. [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther] King [Jr.] had that kind of magnetism. If I would die with this man, I, I know why I died. This is rare occasion when you have this; a thousand years a man like this come along. That's the way we felt. Now, Albany, in jail, they treated us like any other prisoners. A lot of--most people in prison who were in the jail were, were black. That's a regular, regular prison--loud noise, clanging, screaming out and cussing. And we came in brothers got up off the cots, and we started singing the freedom song, praying the brothers eased up and help them, some of their cases, and writing letters, you know, so created a sense of community (unclear)--my inmates--created some sense of community. 'Cause most of us who came in were people that belonged to--Jews, Christians, or--there wasn't any Muslims at that time. Or something else where they didn't have no form of religion but morally committed to justice and peace and desegregate the society where they could bear it now. So, Albany was my first major experience at being arrested, demonstrating.$I think that's why when Harold Washington finally announced after [HM Lutrelle] Lu [F. Palmer, II] and a bunch of us and Starks [HM Robert T. Starks] and a whole bunch of people, [HM Reverend Jesse L.] Jackson, a bunch of us rallied enough votes and raised enough money to get Harold to the city running for mayor, I think it was either November the 10th or October 19th, one of those days, you know, the 10th at the Hyde Park Hotel [ph.], he announced to an audience of about a thousand people there. The press said that he was gonna run for mayor. And I was gathered, [HM] Renault [Robinson] called out of the crowd to give the prayer. And the prayer I gave had the lines in it: the man, the moment, and the movement have now met at a great juncture in history. And that went over the wire service across the country. But significantly, the Historical Society uses that theme for its display of Harold now. But they left out the moment. There is the man and the movement, but the theme was taken from the prayer. People don't--that yours truly gave I think November the 10th, 1982.