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Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr.

Orthopaedic surgeon, chemical engineer and astronaut Robert Lee Satcher, Jr. was born on September 22, 1965 in Hampton, Virginia to Robert and Marian Satcher. Satcher graduated from Denmark-Olar High School in Denmark, South Carolina, in 1982. He received his B.S. degree in chemical engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1986; his Ph.D. degree in chemical engineering from MIT in 1993; and his M.D. degree from Harvard Medical School in 1994. Satcher completed his postdoctoral research fellowships at MIT in 1994 and University of California, Berkeley in 1998; internship and residency in orthopaedic surgery at the University of California, San Francisco in 2000; and a fellowship in musculoskeletal oncology at the University of Florida in 2001.

From 2001 to 2008, Satcher served as an assistant professor at The Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern University, in the Department of Orthopaedic Surgery. He was also an assistant professor of orthopaedic surgery at the Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago, Illinois from 2001 to 2008, and served as a professor at the Institute for Bionanotechnology in Medicine at Northwestern University Medical Center. In addition, Satcher was an attending physician of orthopaedic oncology at Northwestern Memorial Hospital - Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center from 2001 to 2008; and served as an assistant professor of biomedical engineering at Northwestern University from 2002 to 2008.

Satcher joined NASA in 2004. In 2009, he became the first orthopaedic surgeon in space during NASA’s STS-129 mission, where he was a mission specialist and performed two spacewalks. Satcher left NASA in September 2011, and serves as a surgical oncologist and assistant professor at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center.

Satcher’s professional organizations include the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, Musculoskeletal Tumor Society, American Academy of Cancer Research, Connective Tissue Oncology Society, National Medical Association, Society of Black Academic Surgeons, Doctors United in Medical Missions, National Comprehensive Cancer Network, American Telemedicine Association, Orthopaedic Research Society, MIT Alumni Association, Black Alumni at MIT and Harvard Alumni Association. In addition, he co-founded the eHealth Research Institute, is a user panel member of the National Space Biomedical Research Institute, and serves on the boards of CSTEM and Teach for America.

Satcher has been active in numerous community organizations, including Big Brother for Youth at Risk Counseling Program, Department of Corrections, San Francisco, California; Tutor for Black Student’s Union Tutorial Program, MIT; National Society of Black Engineers; American Institute of Chemical Engineering; Supervising Adult for Cub Scout Camp for Boys, Nashville, Tennessee; Open Airways Tutor (asthma awareness); Proctor for Freshman Dormitory at Harvard University; Lay Episcopal Minister at St. Edmund’s Episcopal Church, Chicago, Illinois and at St. James Episcopal Church in Houston, Texas. Satcher has also completed medical missions for outreach care to underserved areas in Nicaragua, Venezuela, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, and Gabon.

Satcher was a National Merit Scholar, and received the Monsanto Award and the Albert G. Hill Award from MIT, fellowships from both the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and UNCF/Merck Research department, and is a member of the Tau Beta Pi Engineering Honor Society. He has been awarded two honorary doctorates of science, and was selected as a finalist in Tuskegee University’s presidency search in 2010.

Robert Satcher, Jr. was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 3, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.047

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/3/2014 |and| 5/7/2014

Last Name

Satcher

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Lee

Schools

Denmark-Olar High School

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Harvard Medical School

Harvard

First Name

Robert

Birth City, State, Country

Hampton

HM ID

SAT03

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Texas

Birth Date

9/22/1965

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Houston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Unsalted Peanuts

Short Description

Orthopedic surgeon, chemical engineer, and astronaut Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. (1965 - ) was a surgical oncologist and assistant professor at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. He became the first orthopedic surgeon in space during NASA’s STS-129 mission.

Employment

UT MD Anderson Cancer Center

Northwestern University

NASA Johnson Space Center

Northwestern Memorial Hospital

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr.'s interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his parent's civil rights activism

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his father's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his father's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes how his parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his father and when his parents first started dating

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. lists his siblings, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. lists his siblings, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers developing an interest in science

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his early influences

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his aspiration to become a pilot

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers moving to Denmark, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers Denmark-Olar High School in Denmark, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his start at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his first year at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his experiences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about the MIT Black Students' Union

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his transition from the South to Boston, Massachusetts, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his transition from the South to Boston, Massachusetts, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers the black faculty at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about the influence of black astronauts

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his decision to study chemical engineering

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his decision to study medicine

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his dual graduate degree program

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his black peers and professors at Harvard Medical School

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his curriculum track at Harvard Medical School

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers Mae Jemison

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his decision to attend Harvard Medical School

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his Ph.D. degree program

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. reflects upon his decision to complete a dual degree graduate program

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his interest in orthopedic surgery

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his residency at the University of California, San Francisco

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Slating of Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr.'s interview, session 2

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers the influence of Emily Morey Holton

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls applying to become an astronaut

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about his work as a bone cancer surgeon

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his selection as an astronaut candidate

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his acceptance into the NASA Astronaut Corps

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his decision to join the NASA Astronaut Corps

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about the history of African American astronauts

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes basic training at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes basic training at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about Extravehicular Activity training

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about Extravehicular Activity training

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his family's perspective on his work as an astronaut

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers his flight assignment

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. remembers launch day on Space Shuttle Atlantis

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes his crewmates on the Space Shuttle Atlantis

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his experience of space shuttle takeoff, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his experience of space shuttle takeoff, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about the flight crew for Space Transport System 129 on Space Shuttle Atlantis

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes the process of acclimating to zero gravity

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about eating and sleeping in space

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes life on the International Space Station

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. talks about the mission schedule for Space Transport System 129

DASession

2$2

DATape

7$8

DAStory

1$2

DATitle
Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. describes basic training at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, pt. 1
Dr. Robert Satcher, Jr. recalls his experience of space shuttle takeoff, pt. 2
Transcript
Now I imagine--and correct me if I'm wrong--but you had a, there was a general training that everybody got and then a training around your specialty as a mission specialty--specialist, right?$$Um-hm.$$Okay.$$Yeah, when you start it now, you go through basic training which can be a year and a half or so on average and that's just because you've got all these people from different walks of life and you basically want them to be able to work together and you need to understand what that means too, just to be an astronaut, because you have no clue outside of pretty much what you have seen on TV in a popular culture like everybody else, so yeah. You go through a year of basic, a year and a half of basic training. One of the most important aspects of that training is learning how to fly and the jet trainers and T-38s [Northrop T-38 Talon], and that's a tool that they use for what's called crew resource management. Basically, it's how you work together as a crew in a dynamic environment; you know, in this case a jet but that simulates in a lot of ways of being in a spaceship.$$Now, had you ever flown before?$$Just a little bit. I mean, I had taken private lessons when--towards the end of my residency and fellowship and I was working towards getting my private license, but I hadn't gotten it yet, so I had flown some.$$Okay.$$But never in a supersonic jet, you know, in terms of piloting it, so that was all new. The other thing was we do a lot of training as mission specialists during spacewalk training in this gigantic pool called the Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory and you go in spacesuits that have been made to be neutrally buoyant under water, so it simulates being in space, and, but you need to be scuba trained. You need to also train, do a lot of training specifically for being able to actually train in that facility, and so, that's part of your basic astronaut training, putting you through that whole process. For some of the water survival and land survival stuff, they sent us to different places. We went to Pensacola [Florida], to the naval flight training school [Naval Air Station Pensacola] there. There was some flight training there. We also went up to Maine to the Acadia national forest [Acadia National Park] to do some of our land survival training.$$This is in case it comes down place that it's not supposed to.$$Right, right. And then, we had training, like in geology; being able to explore landscapes, find important features. In a landscape that will tell you about the evolution of that particular environment. And so, we went out to New Mexico in order to do a lot of that training. Part of it, too, is the astronauts, of course, were the focal point for what NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration] does in human exploration. So, whenever they bring in a new class, you need to learn about NASA as an organization. NASA has, I believe, don't quote me on this, if I remember I think it's fourteen centers nationwide, and you go around and visit every center so that the people, the personnel that are at each of these centers have an opportunity to meet you and you have an opportunity to meet them. The spacecraft and the spaceships that we fly on are assembled collectively by all of the centers. It's directed primarily in certain areas, but there are parts and contributions from all of the centers that are brought together and so it's important to go and meet the people that are doing that because you really are entrusting them with your lives when you're flying on a spaceship, and so it's closing that loop so that they have a face, you know. They know that this isn't just some theoretical exercise. It's, you know, these are people that are depending on them, so it establishes that bond and, you know, so it's--its, that's part of your basic training. That's you know, what you do. You continue it also, once you, you know, finish basic training.$And, when you get to the eight and a half minutes you're going, you're traveling at 17,500 miles an hour, which is, if you do the calculation, it's five miles per second, which is actually faster than a bullet, but you're in this gigantic spaceship travelling that fast and, you know, it's as I said, by the time you get to that eight minute mark and you know you're almost getting ready for the engines to stop, you're ready for the engines to stop (laughter) because you know it's really, and I was sitting there and I was having to think about every breath, you know. I was like, man, I gotta think about breathing because my muscles are actually starting to get a little bit tired from having to do this work. So, when the engines cut off and we were officially in space, it was very nice. They cut off and then everything starts exploding and that's kind of a magical moment, you know. It cuts off and I was just anticipating it and I was like, oh man, everything's gonna start floating now. This is gonna be spectacular. And it was. You know. I didn't have one of my gloves. I didn't have it strapped on me the right way, so when I took it off it started floating off, you know, and I'm getting out of the seat and, you know, when you're under your buckle and then all of a sudden you're just floating, you know, and just floating around, it's a spectacular feeling and the one thing that we all do right when it happens is, you know, you go to the window and stare out, just like a bunch of kids, you know, because you want to look out and just take in you know, seeing Earth. It's like you need to mentally verify. I am in space because, again, this is just kind of unique once in a lifetime for many, kind of things, and I just immediately started thinking I want to just remember as much of this as I possibly can. What competes with that, of course, is you have a very busy schedule that you have to adhere to and you have a lot of duties, so--$$Can you remember the first thing you saw when you looked out the window?$$Uh, well, I looked out and I saw the Earth and we were, I think we were over Europe at the time.$$Could you make it out?$$Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, it looks like, yeah, that's what's incredible. It looks just like the globe that you have on your desk, but in vivid colors; just incredibly spectacular, vivid colors. More vivid than you can imagine. It just kind of blows you away, and it just exceeds what you think it's gonna look like, 'cause I had, I was thinking it was gonna look this way but then you see it and just the colors are so brilliant. That hasn't had, the reason is when you're in space you're outside the atmosphere and you're in a vacuum of space and so you have this unfiltered light, and the colors, like I said, are just really spectacular and brilliant and you know there's something that's, in certain ways, very spiritual about how it looks and how it grabs you and affects you. So, at any rate. The other thing that really you notice when you look down on the earth you know, you can see, you actually can see the atmosphere when you look, you know, kind of on a tangent on the earth. Let's say that's the earth and you look right on the side, you actually see the atmosphere, this layer, you know, of gas, oxygen and nitrogen, whatever, adherent to the Earth.$$Does it look like a lot of protection for the Earth?$$Well, no. (Laughter) It looks like a thin, delicate layer. You know, and you realize that it's like this fluid, just like, you know, a gas is basically a fluid, just like water; water much more dense of course, but that's what it looks like. It looks like this fluid that's adherent to the Earth and you realize that's what we breathe and that's, you know, and what it really made me realize is that it's not an infinite entity. It's quantifiable. You can see that and you can see its layer. It's like, well there's only so much of that that's there, you know, and that really kind of brings home the point that it really is a delicate system that we have here and, you know, it's obviously it's coming into focus now with a lot of the global climate changes and everything that are going on, but you really gain a very visceral appreciation for it when you can actually see it like that.$$It becomes more real then--$$It becomes very real (simultaneous).$$--(Simultaneous) that human beings could actually destroy this.$$Right. Yeah, we could definitely do that.

Jennie Patrick

Chemical engineer Jennie R. Patrick was born in Gadsden, Alabama on January 1, 1949. Her parents had only achieved schooling up to the sixth grade, with James working as a janitor and Elizabeth working as a maid. They encouraged Jennie and her four siblings to excel in their studies as a way to escape poverty. In 1964 Patrick attended Gadsden High School, a previously all white high school that was forced to integrate due to the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision. She graduated with honors in 1967 and then attended Tuskegee Institute until 1970, when the chemical engineering program was eliminated. Patrick transferred to the University of California at Berkeley, and received her B.S. degree in 1973. She went on to earn her Ph.D. degree in chemical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1979.

Upon graduation, Patrick was hired in various positions in the chemical research and development industry, including General Electric, the Philip Morris Research Facility and the Rohm and Hass Company in Bristol. She was at Rohm and Haas for five years until 1993, when she became the assistant to the executive vice president at Southern Company Services in Birmingham, Alabama. Patrick also served as an adjunct professor at Rensselear Polytechnic Institute from 1980 to 1983, and at Georgia Institute of Technology from 1983 to 1987. Patrick returned to Tuskegee University in 1993 as the 3M Eminent Scholar and Professor of Chemical Engineering. In addition to her teaching duties, Patrick is developing research projects in material sciences, is actively involved in leadership roles at Tuskegee, and remains firmly committed to helping minority students find success, particularly in the fields of science and engineering. Patrick later worked as a senior consultant with Raytheon Engineers and Constructors in Birmingham and, in 2000, she founded Education & Environmental Solutions.

Patrick has received recognition from professional and academic organization, including the American Association of University Women Post-doctoral Fellowship, the National Fellowship Foundation Scholarship, the Outstanding Women in Science and Engineering Award. In 1983, she was featured in the “Exceptional Black Scientist” poster series by CIBA-GEIGY Corp.

Patrick works and lives in Peachtree, Georgia with Dr. Yaw D. Yeboah, her husband fellow MIT alum.

Jennie R. Patrick was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 14, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.210

Sex

Female

Interview Date

12/14/2012

Last Name

Patrick

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

James L. Cain Elementary School

Carver High School

Gadsden High School

Tuskegee University

University of California, Berkeley

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Jennie

Birth City, State, Country

Gadsen

HM ID

PAT08

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

San Francisco, California

Favorite Quote

You Know What I Mean.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

1/1/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Cake (Coconut)

Short Description

Chemical engineer Jennie Patrick (1949 - ) became the first African American woman to earn a Ph.D. in chemical engineering when she completed graduate studies at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1979.

Employment

Environmental Wellness Institute

Raytheon Engineers & Constructors

Tuskegee University

Southern Company Services

Rohm and Haas Company

Philip Morris Research Center

General Electric Company

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Jennie Patrick's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Jennie Patrick describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Jennie Patrick describes her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Jennie Patrick describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Jennie Patrick talks about her upbringing in Gadsden, Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Jennie Patrick describes the sights, sounds, and smells of growing up in Gadsden, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick talks about her interests as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick talks about her church and its influence

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick describes her close relationship with her father

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick talks about television in her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick talks about her curiosity as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Jennie Patrick talks about attending James L. Cain Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Jennie Patrick talks about her education at Carver High School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick talks about her determination to succeed academically

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick describes the integration of schools in Gadsden, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick describes the reactions of teachers at Gadsden High School

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick describes being discriminated against despite her achievements

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick describes the lack of support from civil rights organizations, following her enrollment in a recently integrated school

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick describes her second year at Gadsden High School

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick talks about her graduation and her college application process

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick describes her time at Tuskegee University

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick describes her time at the University of California, Berkeley

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick describes her senior design project and how it was sabotaged by fellow students

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick describes her experience in Advanced Engineering Mathematics at the University of California, Berkeley

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick notes the low number of African Americans at the University of California, Berkeley in the 1960s

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick reflects upon her experience at the University of California, Berkeley

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick describes her encounter with Dr. John Prausitz

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Jennie Patrick reflects upon the challenges of her educational experiences

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick describes her doctoral research on superheated liquid temperature limits

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick talks about graduating from MIT with her Ph.D. degree, and her relationship with her advisor

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick talks about her relationship with her Ph.D. advisor, Robert C. Reid

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick talks about her work at General Electric

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick talks about her work at Philip Morris

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Jennie Patrick talks about her move to Rohm and Haas

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick describes her work at Rohm and Haas

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick talks about her work at Southern Company Services

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick talks about her departure from Southern Company Services

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick talks about her time at Tuskegee University

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick reflects upon her impressions of black males at Tuskegee University

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Jennie Patrick talks about her time at Raytheon Engineers and Contractors

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick talks about her illness

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick talks about the chemical industry and Environmental Wellness Institute

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick talks about the risks associated with chemical engineering

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick reflects upon her career

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Jennie Patrick describes the making of scented products

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Jennie Patrick discusses the harmful nature of room fresheners

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Jennie Patrick talks about her legacy

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Jennie Patrick talks about her family

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Jennie Patrick talks about how she would like to help others

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Jennie Patrick talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Jennie Patrick describes her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$6

DAStory

5$2

DATitle
Jennie Patrick describes her time at the University of California, Berkeley
Jennie Patrick talks about graduating from MIT with her Ph.D. degree, and her relationship with her advisor
Transcript
Okay, so 1970, so you no longer had access to the scholarship to go to Berkeley, so--$$So that was a challenge. So I worked a year and saved every penny trying to go to Berkley [U-C Berkley], had enough money to survive about a half a year once I got there. And it was a tremendous hardship. And I didn't have any real support. I met a black professor named Dr. Harry Morrison. I took physics from him, and I was the only black kid in this large auditorium. And one day, he smiled at me. And I thought, oh, my goodness, the professor smiled at me. And so I was reluctant to just, you know, go down and say something to him because I didn't know whether or it would embarrass him or not. But I did. I took, you know, got the courage, and I went down and told him I wanted to say hello. And we started talking, and, you know, he asked me how was I doing. And at that time, I was really struggling financially, really had difficulty feeding myself 'cause I didn't have, you know, enough funds. So I would cut back on the quantity of food that I ate. And I explained to him what was happening. And he took upon, you know, upon himself to go to the financial aid office and secured me a grant, told them that I was an excellent student and there was no reason that the school couldn't find some way of financially helping me. So he really was very, you know, very important in my survival there at Berkley. Later on, it allowed he to house sit for him a couple of semesters which allowed , you know, me not to have the cost of living for that time period.$$Okay, so he was, I think I've heard him mentioned by others at Berkley that we've interviewed as being one of the brightest people they've ever met.$$Oh, yes, very, very bright, very humble, just a wonderful spirit, yes.$$I think one said he was the smartest man he had ever met.$$I think he had a PhD in both mathematics and physics if I'm not mistaken.$$Was he the first physics professor at Berkley, black, you know, physics professor?$$May have been, I mean easily could have been. I'm not totally certain of that.$$Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's the one. Now, did you ever meet Robert Bragg. He was a material scientist.$$Yes, I did.$$Okay.$$Yes, yes, I did.$$Yeah, okay.$$Don't know a lot about him. Berkeley was such an intense period of my life, had very little time to do anything other than study. I was the first black undergraduate student they had had in ten years. I was the only American female in the chemical engineering department at that time. They had three oriental students, female students. It was a challenging environment. Students were hostile, and so were many of the professors, really felt that I did not belong there.$$Was Bill Lester there then?$$Bill Lester was there. He was, I think associated with Lawrence Livermore, I think.$$Yeah.$$So he wasn't someone that I knew at that time.$$Okay, just wondered. So, but from what I've read, there's an interview that we had in the packet where you were asked about your experiences at Berkeley, and they seem to be pretty bad. They almost sound like high school.$$It was pretty bad. It was pretty awful. Yeah, Berkeley was a challenge. My senior year, we had to do design projects, and you usually work in teams of four people. And during the session that we were beginning to separate into teams, I sat in the room waiting for someone to join me and be on my team. And nobody would join me. And so I raised my hand, and the professor's name was Mr. Blue. I don't remember his first name, but I'll always remember his last name because he gave me the blues. But he, you know, was extremely bigoted. And I raised up my hand, and I said to him, nobody's on my team. And he looked at me, he says, "So what? You don't belong here anyway." And it shocked me. And I said, but this is a, you know, a project for a team. He says, "Well, you do the best you can as your team." And so here I am left with doing all this work that three other people should have been doing, by myself; horrendous experience. The teaching assistant was a Hispanic guy from some foreign country. I don't recall where. And he said to me, he says, I'm so saddened by what's, what I heard in the class. He says, I'll help you as much as I can, but I can't work on the project with you. And so I said, I'll do the best I can. I worked night and day, night and day, very, very little sleep. Towards the end of the project, I had gone to the campus early one morning, and again, this is before the days of the computers, so we had these huge Wang calculators that sat in a calculation room, they called it. And I'm sitting there, and I had been there since early morning, typing away, putting my little data there. And I was interrupted by these guys.$Okay, so after your PhD, now was there, did you, was there anything special about your graduation, getting your PhD--I know it is special in the first place. You were the first black woman to achieve a PhD in Chemical Engineering in the country.$$Yes, that is correct.$$So this is a big deal, and was that noted during that time?$$Yes, MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology] was the first university, I think it was in 1888, that started chemical engineering. And schools like MIT, Berkeley, Wisconsin had a lot of the history and old timers who had passed the history on. When I finished my PhD at MIT, my advisor was the person who told me that, Jennie, you are the first African American to obtain a PhD in Chemical Engineering, African American female, to obtain a PhD in Chemical Engineering.$$Now, this is 1979, right?$$Nineteen-seventy nine [1979].$$Okay, so 1979, this is the last year of the Carter [President Jimmy Carter] administration. The, I think the Iran hostage crisis takes place that--$$Yes.$$--same year. So, now, were you hired (unclear) (simultaneous)--$$Yeah, I had lots of offers. I was really surprised. Every place I interviewed, I got an offer. My advisor and I often sort of bumped heads. Very, he was a very strong personality, somewhat mischief, somewhat of a prankster, a brilliant man, tremendous teacher, tremendous teacher, loved teaching. I was somewhat suspicious because I, you know, I thought that maybe he would give me the best recommendation because of some of the encounters (laughter) that we had.$$You know, he was also a good friend of the--$$Yes, yes--$$--professor from Berkeley that--$$--but to my shock, he did the reverse. I had interviewed for a position as a professor, and this professor asked me, he said, you know, you got such a--he says, he asked me what was the relationship like with my advisor. And I was suspicious when he asked that, and I said, "Why do you ask?" He says, well, I've never seen a recommendation like this one. And so immediately, I thought, "Oh, my gracious. He gave me a bad recommendation." And I said, so he said bad things about me, is that the case? He says, you thought he would say bad things about you? He says, no, to the contrary. He has you walking on water. I said, "Excuse me?" He said, I've never seen a recommendation like this. He says, I'm surprised that you thought he may give you a bad one. I said, we had conflict. He said, well, obviously, that conflict made him have enormous respect for you. And he says, for him, knowing who he is, to write a recommendation, says, you're pretty special. So I was pleased, of course, but shocked.$$Now, what was your biggest conflict over, if you recall?$$Lots of things, lots of things. He seemed to have wanted to just continue to add work, additional work to me, not always very helpful. So I was pretty much on my own, seemed to just, wanted to challenge me. And if I was going to succeed, it would be because of me and no one else. And that was the way it ended up. And so at the end of the dissertation, when I defended it--you normally present your dissertation and the room is filled with the professors. And they send you out after you present your information and they debate. Sometimes, it'll be a matter of minutes if they feel very good about you, half hour, hour. When it hits an hour, you're really probably in trouble. And after 15 minutes for me, they came back out and said, "Congratulations". And that was rather surprising to me 'cause it took a short time. And my advisor, I noticed he got to the end of the line, and I wondered why was he doing that. So he walked to the end of the line, and everybody had walked out of the room, and he looked at me, and he says, "You know, you're a tough cookie" (laughter), and I'm looking at the man. He says, you're one of the strongest people I've ever met. Congratulations, you won this war.$$That's an interesting comment, isn't it?$$Yes.$$So I can see why you might have suspected that--$$Yeah, you won this war. That was profound to me.$$Interesting.$$What were the backgrounds of these men? I mean did they share a similar background or did you ever--I mean I don't know if you had the opportunity to--(simultaneous)$$No, I think, I think chemical engineering traditionally was very, very conservative. Traditionally, it was a white male discipline. And since it started at a place like MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology], it had a lot of elitism associated with it. And so I was pretty much out of place when you think about it, in every sense of the word. I was neither male nor white. And--$$I wouldn't (unclear) be surprised if they had that much energy that--we hear often from people in the sciences that once they can get to the MIT level or that people don't really think about that--$$Well, MIT, in general, was a very good place for me. It did, the hostility was nowhere near the hostility at Berkeley [University of California, Berkeley]. MIT had a lot more black people by the nature of the school in science and engineering, had a lot more women. And so I loved the environment. I loved, I thrived on the intellectual challenge there. I thrived on meeting people with such brilliant minds. So for me, it was a great environment. The hostility was not as blatant as it had been at Berkeley. There were still lots of problems, don't get me wrong. But I never had, you know, really ugly confrontations with professors.

Sossina Haile

Professor of Materials Science and Chemical Engineering Sossina Haile was born on July 28, 1966 in Ethiopia. After her family left Africa during an uprising in the 1970s, Haile grew up in Minnesota. She attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology where she received her B.S. degree in 1986. She went on to receive her M.S. degree from the University of California, Berkeley and her Ph.D. degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1992. While in school, Haile received the AT&T Cooperative Research Fellowship and the Fulbright Fellowship to continue her studies. The Fulbright, along with a Humboldt Fellowship the following year, allowed her to study at the Max Palnck Institute für Festkörperforschung in Germany.

Upon receiving her Ph.D. degree, Haile assumed an assistant professorship at the University of Washington, Seattle where she stayed until 1996 when she joined the faculty at the California Institute of Technology. Her research group investigates ionic conduction in solid materials with applications to batteries and fuel cells. Haile is known for her work with the latter - in the 1990s she fabricated the first solid-acid fuel cell in her lab, regarded as a gateway to more powerful, commercial cells. In comparison to other fuel cells, Haile’s is unique for its creation of energy at hot enough to be efficient, but not so hot as to be expensive. In 2003, two of her graduate students created Superprotonic, a company focused on fuel cells, with Haile as science adviser. Most recently, Haile has received recognition for developing new ways of using solar energy to make fuels like hydrogen and methane.

Haile is the recipient of the NSF National Young Investigator Award (1994-1999) and the 2001 J.B. Wagner Award from the High Temperature Materials Division of the Electrochemical Society. Newsweek Magazine named her one of “12 people to watch in 2008,” and in 2010, Haile won both the Chemical Pioneer Award of the American Institute of Chemists and the Chow Foundation Humanitarian Award.

Haile lives with her two children and spouse in southern California.

Haile was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on …

Accession Number

A2012.197

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/29/2012

Last Name

Haile

Maker Category
Middle Name

M

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

St. John's Preparatory School

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

University of California, Berkeley

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Sossina

Birth City, State, Country

Addis Adeba

HM ID

HAI02

Favorite Season

Spring

Favorite Vacation Destination

Hawaii

Favorite Quote

99 percent perspiration, 1 percent inspiration.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

7/28/1966

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

Ethiopia

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Chemical engineer Sossina Haile (1966 - ) Engineering professor Sossina Haile (1966 – ) is the Carl F. Braun Professor of Materials Science and Chemical Engineering at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) and has developed new ways of using solar energy to make fuels.

Employment

Max Planck Institut für Festkörperforschung (Max Planck Institute for Solid State Research)

University of Washington, Seattle

California Institute of Technology

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
0,0:2640,11:6635,60:7060,66:7910,78:10460,144:10800,149:11310,159:11650,164:18894,243:19296,251:19631,257:19966,266:20301,272:20904,283:21842,300:22780,320:24187,347:25393,377:26063,391:26599,400:29949,464:30351,471:30619,476:31490,495:31892,502:37064,514:37592,524:38120,533:38582,542:39374,558:41486,599:42014,608:43532,631:43928,638:49868,761:50330,770:50924,782:51650,794:57250,817:57842,827:60062,871:60506,878:61468,890:61912,901:67005,956:67395,963:67850,974:70255,1102:75321,1164:75904,1178:76222,1185:76699,1196:77229,1208:79304,1215:81729,1242:86288,1323:90168,1375:90944,1386:91623,1395:94950,1424$0,0:3310,51:4030,63:4750,72:5290,80:6190,95:16170,254:19740,321:21070,344:21490,351:21840,357:22190,363:23800,395:39086,544:39464,551:39905,560:40535,572:41669,600:42362,614:42677,620:43559,640:43937,647:46079,704:47465,742:50550,762
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Sossina Haile's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Sossina Haile lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Sossina Haile describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Sossina Haile talks about her mother's growing up in Ethiopia

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Sossina Haile talks about her mother's religious background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Sossina Haile describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Sossina Haile talks about Italian and Ethiopian relations

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Sossina Haile talks about her father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Sossina Haile talks about Haile Selassie, the former Emperor of Ethiopia

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Sossina Haile talks about her father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Sossina Haile talks about how her parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Sossina Haile talks about her parent's courtship and marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Sossina Haile describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Sossina Haile talks about her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Sossina Haile describes her earliest childhood memory and growing up in Ethiopia

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Sossina Haile describes the sights, sounds and smells of her growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Sossina Haile talks about her family's involvement in the church

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Sossina Haile talks about the Ethiopian system of education

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Sossina Haile talks about her family's fleeing from Ethiopia

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Sossina Haile talks about her experience at Sanford English School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Sossina Haile describes the cultural differences of Ethiopia

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Sossina Haile discusses energy in Ethiopia and her immigration to the United States

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Sossina Haile describes her new life in the United States

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Sossina Haile describes her social environment in Minnesota

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Sossina Haile describes her early education

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Sossina Haile contrasts Ethiopian schools with American schools

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Sossina Haile describes her early interest in science

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Sossina Haile describes her impressions of Minnesota's weather

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Sossina Haile talks about her social life in high school

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Sossina Haile talks about her decision to attend Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Sossina Haile discusses the field of material science and how she chose to pursue it

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Sossina Haile talks about her professor, Gus Witt

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Sossina Haile describes her political activism at MIT

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Sossina Haile talks about her perceptions of African Americans in college

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Sossina Haile talks about MIT students and faculty

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Sossina Haile talks about her graduate work at MIT and Berkeley

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Sossina Haile discusses her time at Bell Laboratories

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Sossina Haile talks about her Fulbright Fellowship

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Sossina Haile talks about her time at the Max Planck Institute in Germany

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Sossina Haile describes her doctoral research

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Sossina Haile talks about her second year in Germany and her return to the United States

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Sossina Haile talks about her move to the California Institute of Technology

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Sossina Haile talks about her groundbreaking discovery of solid acid fuel cells

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Sossina Haile talks about the political aspect of alternative energy

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Sossina Haile shares her perspective on the future of alternative energy

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Sossina Haile discusses the applications of fuel cells

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Sossina Haile describes water splitting

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Sossina Haile talks about honors she has received

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Sossina Haile talks about drinking tailpipe emissions

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Sossina Haile talks about the Superprotonic Company

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Sossina Haile talks about Safcell

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Sossina Haile talks about her awards

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Sossina Haile discusses her work on fuel cells

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Sossina Haile talks about the electric car

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Sossina Haile talks about her return to Ethiopia

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Sossina Haile shares her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Sossina Haile reflects on her career

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Sossina Haile talks about her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Sossina Haile describes her family

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Sossina Haile tells how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$3

DAStory

6$8

DATitle
Sossina Haile talks about her family's involvement in the church
Sossina Haile describes her impressions of Minnesota's weather
Transcript
Okay. Was church a big part of growing up?$$Well, it was a large part for my parents [Misrak and Getatchew Haile], but we, as kids, did not go very much, and part because the whole prop(sp) was extremely long, extremely long. It was way too long to bring kids. I think that's the conclusion of my parents--$$You said extremely long, how long?$$Three hours, easily, for each service. The services were long. So we'd go for, you know, baptisms and weddings and things like that, but not on a weekly basis. And also, the language that was used was Ge'ez, which is, you know, equivalent to having Catholic Church in Latin, where nobody actually understands it, so you're just sitting around for three hours, so my parents spared us that. And I don't know if that was true of all families or just us, yeah.$$Okay. Would you consider your parents very, I mean, devoted church people?$$My father, in particular.$$Okay.$$Yeah, and he was, you know, he was headed that path, actually, to be a priest, but I'm not sure what changed his mind.$$So he, more than likely understood. He understood what they were talking about, right?$$Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that, as a linguist, and that's partly why through his church education that he knew the language the Ge'ez and, you know, all those Semitic languages.$$How do you spell that language?$$It's G-E-apostrophe E-Z.$$Okay.$$In English, I believe, it's referred to as Ethiopic.$The weather had to be really be--$$You know what's funny about that, is that we arrived in the summer, and the summer was brutal. I mean, you know, Highlands, if you felt it, it's like being in San Francisco. And so to come to a place which has as its state bird the mosquito, has incredible humidity, it was--that was actually much harder. People don't think that, when they think, you came from Ethiopia to Minnesota, the cold might--no, the hot is really a problem too--is really a problem. But, you know, you managed. You managed. My sister likes to recount the story that on the cold side about how the first time she had earned enough money to actually buy a warm coat, and then go through a winter where she wasn't--just had the chills all the time.

Paula Hammond

Chemical engineer and engineering professor Paula Therese Hammond was born in 1963 in Detroit, Michigan. Although she grew up wanting to become a writer, Hammond changed her mind after taking a junior high school chemistry class. She was hooked by the idea of using two materials to create a something completely different. After graduating from high school, Hammond attended Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), where she obtained her B.S. degree in chemical engineering in 1984. She was then hired by Motorola in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, where she worked for two years. In 1988, Hammond earned her M.S. degree from Georgia Institute of Technology and then returned to MIT to earn her Ph.D. degree in chemical engineering in 1993.

Following a postdoctoral research fellowship in chemistry at Harvard University, where she became interested in surface chemistry, Hammond went on to become a faculty member of MIT. In 2003, she worked as a Radcliffe Institute Fellow, focusing on a project that allowed for the creation of polymers that form micelles in water. These isolated packages could be used to assist in drug delivery. Hammond is the Bayer Chair Professor of Chemical Engineering, and serves as its Executive Officer. Additionally, she has participated in the Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. She also helped found the Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies (ISN), whose mission is to help design more functional technology for the nation’s soldiers. Hammond’s research interests include the nanoscale design of biomaterials, macromolecular design and synthesis, and directed assembly using surface templates. In 2010, Hammond made a research agreement with Ferrosan A/S, a pharmaceutical company, to develop a bandage that would use Hammond’s technological innovations in Ferrosan’s collagen bandages. Throughout her career, Hammond has served as a mentor to many graduate and undergraduate students and has published nearly 150 scholarly articles pertaining to her research in chemical engineering. She has also encouraged an increase in the presence of minority scientists and engineers at MIT by chairing the Initiative on Faculty, Race and Diversity.

Hammond has won numerous awards for her work as a scientist and as a professor. She was named the Bayer Distinguished Lecturer in 2004 and the Mark Hyman, Jr. Career Development Chair in 2003. In 2010, the Harvard Foundation awarded her the Scientist of the Year Award at the annual Albert Einstein Science Conference. Hammond has also been named one of the “Top 100 Science Stories of 2008,” by Discover Magazine. Hammond is married to Carmon Cunningham, and they have one son, James.

Accession Number

A2012.218

Sex

Female

Interview Date

10/9/2012

Last Name

Hammond

Middle Name

T

Schools

Georgia Institute of Technology

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Harvard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Paula

Birth City, State, Country

Detroit

HM ID

HAM04

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Michigan

Favorite Vacation Destination

Aruba, Hawaii

Favorite Quote

Science informs....

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Birth Date

9/3/1963

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Boston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

All Food

Short Description

Chemical engineer and engineering professor Paula Hammond (1963 - )

Employment

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

Georgia Technical Research Institute

Motorola, Inc.

Dow Chemical Company

Favorite Color

Intense Colors

Timing Pairs
0,0:2231,41:9312,172:15229,307:15617,312:16490,322:16878,327:25112,387:26176,422:27544,451:28000,459:29596,482:31040,505:31420,512:31876,522:33472,560:34460,574:38560,594:41409,644:42025,654:44181,685:44643,693:55376,827:62862,987:65766,1040:74444,1108:76390,1134:78390,1183:84870,1300:85510,1309:86550,1323:87750,1339:92710,1437:93430,1447:94550,1483:102423,1578:112387,1728:112752,1734:117132,1838:135196,2004:135572,2031:136418,2044:144972,2173:152235,2217:154746,2253:155556,2266:155961,2272:157419,2286:159930,2324:164142,2395:164466,2400:170624,2456:171464,2467:176084,2535:176588,2543:178352,2578:180032,2597:181292,2616:181796,2624:189294,2689:189689,2695:190084,2701:193495,2737:193933,2745:194444,2754:196415,2801:197437,2819:197875,2827:198386,2836:200138,2868:203642,2921:204153,2930:204737,2939:212127,3002:213666,3034:214638,3048:215367,3059:228557,3219:238609,3383:239399,3396:244455,3509:249646,3542:250238,3551:250534,3556:252014,3581:252606,3591:254456,3628:254752,3633:256602,3670:256898,3675:260154,3725:260820,3736:271271,3842:271656,3848:272195,3857:280130,3977:285350,4028$0,0:4925,42:5249,47:8246,126:9623,150:10109,157:11405,189:11891,196:12701,207:14402,232:14888,239:15455,245:31750,435:32170,441:33850,467:39814,546:45568,578:46974,600:47270,605:48750,631:49046,636:52376,707:59166,773:59628,781:60288,792:61212,809:64380,868:64908,876:66030,895:66624,905:67218,921:67812,931:71244,1002:71772,1012:72036,1017:72300,1022:81869,1142:82247,1149:84326,1187:90340,1264:91188,1273:102114,1426:105002,1469:105762,1479:110702,1573:111462,1586:113210,1610:117629,1636:118577,1651:127578,1754:128766,1772:131934,1834:140550,1886
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Paula Hammond's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Paula Hammond lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Paula Hammond talks about her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Paula Hammond talks about her mother's background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Paula Hammond talks about her mother studying nursing at Howard University and Wayne State University

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Paula Hammond talks about her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Paula Hammond talks about her father's background

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Paula Hammond talks about her father's community involvement

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Paula Hammond talks about her likeness to her parents

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Paula Hammond talks about her brothers, Gordon Francis Goodwin and Tyehimba Jess

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Paula Hammond recalls her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Paula Hammond talks about growing up in northwest Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Paula Hammond remembers the sights, sounds, and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Paula Hammond talks about Motown and the music of her childhood

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Paula Hammond talks about her early school days

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Paula Hammond talks about her most memorable teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Paula Hammond discusses her early aspirations to become a writer

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Paula Hammond describes the cultural changes in Detroit, Michigan and increasing gang activity

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Paula Hammond talks about her decision to attend Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Paula Hammond talks about studying at Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Paula Hammond talks about the professors that mentored and inspired her

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Paula Hammond talks about meeting her husband, John Hammond

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Paula Hammond talks describes the discrimination she faced while working at Motorola in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Paula Hammond talks about working at Georgia Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Paula Hammond talks about her doctoral studies at Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Paula Hammond talks about her post-doctoral research at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Paula Hammond talks about her return to Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Paula Hammond describes her current research concerning the directed assembly of nanomaterials

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Paula Hammond discusses the practical application of her research

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Paula Hammond talks about liquid crystalline and block polymers

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Paula Hammond talks about dendritic block copolymers and tissue engineering

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Paula Hammond talks about the use of biomaterials in the human body

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Paula Hammond discusses nanoparticle drug delivery and other discoveries

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Paula Hammond talks about her honors and awards

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Paula Hammond talks about her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Paula Hammond gives advice to young minority students of science

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Paula Hammond reflects on her career

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Paula Hammond shares her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Paula Hammond talks about her family

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Paula Hammond tells how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

6$1

DATitle
Paula Hammond describes her current research concerning the directed assembly of nanomaterials
Paula Hammond discusses nanoparticle drug delivery and other discoveries
Transcript
All right. Now, since you've been here, professionally you've been involved with--and I'm going to ask you to explain some of these things.$$Yes. Sure.$$It seems that we have a menu of your--of the areas you concentrate in.$$Oh, sure. And I can help you narrow them too, if some of them are--some may be more important than others, you know.$$$$Okay. Well, what about macromolecular design and synthesis?$$All right. That just refers to the fact that we make new polymers. We actually, in my group, have a couple of different skill sets. One of them is what you just described. We can, understanding the function that we want a polymer system to have, design the polymer to do what we anticipate it needs to do. So, we actually use synthetic chemistry as a tool in that case to make a new material system that will do what, you know, the desired function.$$Okay. Now, I don't know if it's time to talk about this or not, but this is--I guess this what you--this is the core of what you're doing now. I guess, it's you're using-- you're doing nanomaterials--$$That's right.$$--where you're able to layer different compounds together and make new materials.$$That's right. Exactly. And, in fact, that's the other skill set that we use. We put that all in the category of self-assembly or directed assembly. We take a material that has a certain interaction with another material, and in a controlled fashion, assemble a new structure from those two systems, two or more systems. Sometimes even one singular system can undergo soft assembly. In this case it's two systems. We're taking a positively and negatively-charged material and alternating them. And, in doing so, we create nanoscale layers, and we build these materials nano layers at a time, and we can put different material systems into different layers. With that level of control, we can design a material system from the bottom up, and determine what function exists, and how it will function based on what we incorporate into the film.$$Okay. And this is--the final product is a thin film, right?$$The final product is a very thin film, sometimes as thin as a few (tenths?) of nanometers; sometimes as thick as microns. And, we can actually coat a very broad range of things, very large structures as large as--well, there's no limit. It essentially can be--very large structures can be coated or very, fine, tiny structures and features can be coated. So, we can coat everything from a nano particle that's used for drug delivery, to an electrode that is used in electrical chemical energy applications, to a very large surface that is used as an optical reflector for an antireflective surface for a large glass structure, for example.$$Okay. So, this is what you mean by self-organized polymer systems?$$Yes. That's one of the ways in which we generate self-organized polymer systems. The other is to use that synthetic tool to create a molecule that assembles with itself in water, and we make some of those systems as well. They assemble into micellar particles, small nanoparticles when they're in water, based on hydrophobic or water hating and hydrophilic or water-loving segments.$$Okay. Okay. What about alternating electrostatic layer-by-layer assembly?$$Yes.$$That's what you just described.$$That's what I just described.$$Okay.$$Layer-by-layer assembly. The automated pieces that we--the process I was describing originally was done by dipping and allowing time for the material to absorb it to go on time. We developed an automated approach that sprays these systems one after the other, and we can generate the films much faster. One of my students invented this approach. We patented it, and we actually have a company he founded called, Svaya Nanotechnologies in Sunnyvale, California. It was founded in 2009, and it's in its third round of funding right now. And he's the one who's coating things that are as large as this table or long, rolled, reel-to-reel pieces of film, using the layer-by-layer technique.$All right. Now, what have been, I guess, your career research highlights? I know--now, you teach and do research, right?$$I teach and do research. That's right. I would say some of the career highlights include some of our more recent work, including nanoparticle drug delivery work that we've been doing. We've been able to find, very recently in our lab, a way to generate RNA, which is the mechanism we can use to turn off bad genes that can cause disease or promote disease in a way that is very unique. It allows us to deliver a large amount of RNA in a nanoparticle without causing toxic side effects, which are common with other methods of RNA encapsulation. So, that's something I think is a highlight, and we just published the work last year. Some of the earlier highlights include the work that we've done in designing these layer-by-layer films to release different drugs at different times, and it's something that we've been able to demonstrate with simple systems, but we're now trying to make more advanced films so that you can, for the implant example, release antibiotics, get rid of any infection, and release the growth factors to bring in these new healthy cells to the body.$$Okay. Now, we were reading about a partnership--well, a research agreement that you all made with--that MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology] made with Farrosan.$$Oh, yes. That's right. This is with the sponge that stops bleeding, essentially. And we, actually, from that work developed a coating that can be released or deployed very rapidly. And that's another very recent highlight in our work, which we hope will, ultimately, be licensed, and used--deployed to the Army.$$Okay. That's exciting stuff. Now, you're written over 150 articles or maybe more by now. I know this is an old project.$$Oh, yes. Yes. It's a little over 200 now, but it's close (laughs).

Joycelyn Harrison

Inventor and chemical engineer, Joycelyn Harrison was born in 1964. She received her B.S. in chemistry from Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia in 1987. She then went on later that year to earn her B.S. in chemical engineering from Georgia Institute of Technology. Harrison remained at Georgia Tech as a graduate student and completed her M.S. in chemical engineering in 1989 and her Ph.D. in 1993. She completed her dissertation on the “Structure-Dielectric Property Relationships in An Epoxy System: A Free Volume Analysis.”

After graduate school Harrison went on to work at the Advanced Materials and Processing Branch (AMPB) of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia in 1994 as a research engineer under the tutelage of Terry L. St. Clair. While at Langley, Harrison conducted much of her research in the field of piezoelectric materials, a class of polymers capable of producing mechanical motion when introduced to an electric current and conversely capable of generating an electric charge when subjected to stress. Her research culminated with her participation on the Thin-Layer Composite-Unimorph Piezoelectric Driver and Sensor (“THUNDER”) project with several colleagues, including senior engineer Robert Bryant. The THUNDER team innovated new piezoelectric polymers that improved upon the existing commercial varieties by providing better durability, energy efficiency, and production costs. In 1999, Harrison became chief of AMPB, which required her to supervise more than 40 research scientists conducting research on polymer composites and ceramics synthesis. NASA recognized Harrison’s contributions to the AMPB branch by awarding her the Exceptional Achievement Medal in 2000 and the Outstanding Leadership Medal in 2006.

Harrison’s personal achievements include a number of patents for piezoelectric substrates that she invented between 1999 and 2008, which have applications both within the aerospace industry for the repair of satellites and the commercial sector for improvements in devices, such as robots, heart pumps and audio speakers. In 2009, Harrison became the manager of the Low Density Materials program at the Air Force Office of Scientific Research in Arlington, Virginia, which seeks to attain reductions in weight of aerospace systems while simultaneously improving overall efficiency.

She resides in Arlington, Virginia.

Accession Number

A2012.173

Sex

Female

Interview Date

7/14/2012

Last Name

Harrison

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

NASA LANGLEY RESEARCH CENTER National Research Council Post-Doctoral Associate

Georgia Institute of Technology

Spelman College

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Joycelyn

Birth City, State, Country

Chattanooga

HM ID

HAR36

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Tennessee

Favorite Vacation Destination

Kiawah island, South Carolina

Favorite Quote

All That Glitters Is Not Gold.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

1/22/1964

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Lobster, Seafood

Short Description

Chemical engineer Joycelyn Harrison (1964 - ) was research engineer and chief of the Advanced Materials and Processing Branch of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA) Langley Research Center. She was also the director of the low density materials program at the Air Force Office of Scientific Research.

Employment

United States Air Force Oiffice of Scientific Research (AFOSR)

National Science Foundation (NSF)

National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Langley Research Center

Thomas Nelson Community College

Favorite Color

Purple

Timing Pairs
0,0:31892,406:32276,411:36654,433:37086,443:38814,483:39678,496:40902,517:43278,556:51198,726:51846,736:60968,821:66297,903:67830,961:72576,995:75654,1050:84159,1260:89390,1288:95660,1381:96178,1389:97140,1425:105206,1568:105872,1578:106168,1583:114575,1642:115340,1653:118740,1717:132420,1890:133308,1903:138932,1999:139820,2012:143668,2076:166920,2345:169545,2456:199344,2936:201528,2994:206954,3014:211334,3102:229024,3346:229414,3352:229960,3361:230896,3377:246280,3530:247288,3544:260846,3802:262778,3833:268885,3898:278005,4002:281856,4044:282432,4054:283296,4068:296242,4197:303124,4258:303904,4271:308428,4349:308740,4354:309676,4371:310066,4377:310846,4389:318840,4452:319435,4460:323430,4534:323940,4544:324960,4557:333460,4714:342766,4821:348538,4931:350098,4958:364752,5141:367242,5189:369234,5232:369898,5241:372660,5256$0,0:6674,28:7460,34:8148,44:9008,55:14684,138:17264,182:18210,194:18984,205:20274,220:21134,233:26466,413:27756,440:33772,459:34514,467:37906,509:38860,523:40874,551:42040,563:43524,582:47881,599:50206,629:54856,688:55786,707:56530,716:57367,727:62272,758:63046,768:63992,781:64680,790:66572,815:67346,825:71464,870:72220,878:72724,886:73228,893:75580,928:77092,949:78352,965:79276,977:87910,1063:89170,1079:89980,1089:90880,1103:93040,1136:93400,1141:93850,1147:94660,1158:95560,1167:96280,1176:100414,1189:101234,1200:101808,1210:102874,1225:103448,1234:105500,1245:107390,1269:114091,1378:117493,1448:117817,1454:118708,1466:120976,1505:121381,1512:121867,1519:122191,1524:122596,1530:123244,1540:127375,1602:132420,1614:133545,1638:134145,1647:134445,1652:136320,1686:136620,1691:139954,1720:140538,1729:141049,1737:145794,1819:146670,1833:147181,1841:147473,1846:147765,1851:148787,1869:151050,1910:152510,1929:153313,1942:153605,1948:154408,1964:155065,1976:156014,1995:159968,2003:160782,2016:161152,2022:162040,2039:162558,2051:163076,2059:164556,2075:168478,2134:169514,2150:169810,2155:176251,2191:177141,2199:177764,2208:179010,2225:180078,2239:182125,2263:182837,2272:183460,2280:184083,2289:188760,2391:191480,2426:194040,2471:194520,2479:196120,2508:196920,2519:197800,2533:199800,2560:200520,2571:201320,2583:206218,2595:206588,2601:206884,2606:207772,2617:208068,2622:211250,2677:211990,2691:213840,2729:214358,2738:214876,2746:215246,2752:217836,2807:218354,2815:219094,2830:219612,2840:219982,2846:220500,2855:221462,2871:222498,2889:233472,3003:234352,3012:237432,3051:240424,3080:241392,3093:246491,3118:247128,3127:247856,3137:248584,3147:248948,3152:252042,3184:254954,3216:258594,3281:262912,3305:264576,3347:265344,3362:266112,3376:266368,3381:268928,3423:269696,3438:270592,3457:270848,3462:271552,3475:273600,3526:274240,3537:277780,3548:280480,3583:281650,3594:282370,3603:284510,3617:285290,3630:287695,3680:289385,3719:289645,3724:291670,3729
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Joycelyn Harrison's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Joycelyn Harrison lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her mother's growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her father's growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about how her parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her childhood home

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Joycelyn Harrison describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her experience being bullied

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her love for learning

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her childhood friend

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about documentaries

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her elementary school teacher, Ms. Grisham

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her junior high school experience

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her interest in books

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about the A.M.E. Church

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about The Civil Rights Movement and NASA

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her childhood education

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her high school teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her decision to pursue chemical engineering

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her experience at Spelman College

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her extracurricular activities

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her mentors in chemistry

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her experience at the Georgia Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Joycelyn Harrison compares her experiences at Spelman College with that of Georgia Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Joycelyn Harrison describes the difference between a chemist and a chemical engineer

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her decision to become a chemical engineer

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her decision to attend graduate school (part 1)

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her decision to attend graduate school (part 2)

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her dissertation on high performance composite materials

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about piezoelectric materials

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her research advisor and mentor, Dr. Terry St. Clair

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her work at NASA's Langley Research Center

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about receiving the R&D 100 Award

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about NASA's program, THUNDER

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her professional activities and awards

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her social skills

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about the challenges of being a manager

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about receiving the NASA Exceptional Achievement Medal

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her patents

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her resignation from NASA

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her career at the Air Force Office of Scientific Research

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her work with MUIRI

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her career

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Joycelyn Harrison reflects on her career

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about balancing family with her career

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about her husband and children

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Joycelyn Harrison shares her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Joycelyn Harrison reflects on her life choices

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Joycelyn Harrison reflects on her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Joycelyn Harrison talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Joycelyn Harrison describes her photos

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

2$1

DATitle
Joycelyn Harrison talks about NASA's program, THUNDER
Joycelyn Harrison talks about her career at the Air Force Office of Scientific Research
Transcript
So what were the applications that, well, what was it used for?$$Oh, you can use those for a variety of, you know, well, we call 'em actuators. So actuators get used in a lot of type--a lot of devices to translate a load, you know, in instrumentation, for instance. Like all of these, you know, a lot of transducers are used in like medical equipment, to work all the mechanisms, in vehicles and systems like your, the pistons and things of that nature. I think that's one of the applications that Caterpillar was interested in. You know, it can drive things. In addition, if you put a voltage on it, as I said before, I mean if you put a load on it, it gives you a voltage. So you can use it as a sensor. Say you have something that you wanna know how much weight was put on something. This is a very elementary example. But if you wanna know how much weight was impacted on something, if you have this piezoelectric, and you roll a load across it or force, it gives you an electrical signal. And that signal is proportional to the weight that was on it. So you can use it also as a sensor. So that's what we call a sensor and actuator. And NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration], one of the things that they would be interested in that response would be like remember Columbia, and when it failed, some of the tiles, the shuttle tiles had been damaged because they had been impacted by ice. And that damaged tiles. And then when it, when the vehicle reentered, it couldn't handle the loads because it damaged the heat shield. If we had something like these sensors in there, you would know how much impact was exerted on that heat shield or of those tiles, you know, you could measure that amount of force and know that, okay, this thing has sustained a significant amount of damage because it got hit by, with this, at this force. So those types of sensor applications would be useful to NASA. Now, this particular one was never used in that way, but I'm giving a hypothetical example of the kinds of things you can use these materials for, lots of robotic-type devices, articulating arms in Space. One of the projects I worked on, they wanted actuators for something that sounds pretty trivial, but it was a big problem. It was, they wanna to send these rovers, like a little robotic instrument, basically, it's an instrument on wheels. And they wanted to send it to an asteroid. And, but one of the problems is the asteroids and the moon and a lot of surfaces in Space are very dusty. And so the lens on the robot was continually getting dirtied up or clouded up with the dust and stuff from the surface of the asteroid. And so they needed like a low-power, lightweight windshield wiper. And so they looked at these materials to serve as windshield wipers because, you know, anything you put in space, there's a big cost for putting it up there. So you'll always have a weight penalty. You want things to be lightweight. You want things to be low power. And in this case, these kinds of actuators were pretty low power, and they were plastic. They were really lightweight. You could make 'em really tiny, but they could keep that surface clean so you could get really expensive experiments, experimental data because now the optics were clear enough to see what was going on, on the surface. So those kinds of things are very useful for, you know, a myriad of applications that NASA was interested in, and in the commercial market as well.$$Okay, so this is an award-winning, so this is a--is this the biggest thing you worked on, you think, in the THUNDER [Thin Layer Composite Unimorph Piezoelectric Driver and Sensor] project?$$Probably--it was big, but probably not the biggest. I think the most rewarding thing I've worked on was related to the area that we broadly call nano technology now. And that was, nano technology is, is basically, seeing at the nano scale. Nano is really, really small. It's like, you can see a single atom. So you think of, you know, all matter is made of atoms and molecules and things. You can actually get down to the atomic scale and, and resolve and begin to move molecules. And I work, I started, the capability or this whole area of nano technology was birthed about twenty years ago. And so I was, you know, a scientist in the lab, doing research at that time, which is a great time to, in science, to be in that position. And so I've done research in working with what we call carbon nano tubes, and you mentioned earlier, grapheme, things of that nature, that are nano scale element. And we look at how you can now combine, if you can start moving one atom at a time, how you can move atoms to design materials that are, you know, you have a lot more control over what you can make. You're not just in the lab mixing molecules. You're now moving atoms at a time and developing new compositions of matter and structures and to engineer in the properties that you wanna see or you need in a given material. And so this whole era of nano technology, I think has been, you know, it's, it's been a hay day in the scientific and engineering community. We've done a lot in the past twenty years in this. So I think that's the most exciting work I've done.$Okay, 2009, this is the Air Force Office of Scientific Research in Arlington. That's, so, well, tell how you--$$Yeah, so, yeah, I, I was hired by the Air Force Office of Scientific Research in Arlington, Virginia right after, well, before I left NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration] I was offered a job there. And at AFOSR [Air Force Office of Scientific Research] which is what we call it, Air Force Office of Scientific Research, I, I'm a program manager. I run the low density materials program. And what we do at AFOSR is fund fundamental research. We fund discovery in all areas of relevance to the Air Force. And so that is, you know, aerospace systems, cyber systems, you know, computer systems as well. And so I, I work in the aerospace chemical and material sciences directorate and interface with scientist and professors all around the country that do things that will add to our discovery and understanding of the fundamentals of lightweight materials, low-density materials. So, and the way I do that is by, I attend a lot of conferences. I interface with a lot of professors and try to understand what their latest and greatest emerging research is, understand that, and understand how that can impact the technologies of the Air Force.$$Okay, what are low-density materials, just for the listeners?$$So when you think of low density, you think of, you know, density is mass over volume. So you think of low mass, lightweight materials. So, you know, any time you have a system that rises above the ground, okay, and whether that's an aircraft or helicopter, a spacecraft, anything that has to be launched into space like satellite systems, you want them to be as lightweight as possible because there's a penalty, the weight penalty when you have to carry them over distances, particularly, lifting them into space or into the atmosphere. And so my job is, you know, look at how can we decrease the mass, lightweight, in many of the structures and the systems that the Air Force works with. And what is the science that can enable continued radical, you know, what we call transformational improvements in that area.$$Okay, now, in 2010, you were working with the department, as a Department of Defense liaison for the National Academy Study on Structural Light Weighting.$$Um-hum.$$Okay, now, this is a part of the job at the Air Force?$$This is part of my job, yeah, exactly. So what the National Academies does is, they're kind of like the unbiased arm of the government that launches studies to, you know, in a variety of science and engineering areas that kind of do fact checking, and, you know, can address where we are as a country, as a nation and how we compete, compete or stand up against other countries in certain areas or what needs to be done in certain areas. And so this is a study that was launched by the Department of the Defense or commissioned through the Department of Defense to the National Academies to look at light-weighting of military vehicles, military systems. And so it included naval vessels, air, aircraft and spacecraft and also Army systems, tanks and things of that nature. And so my job, through part of the Reliance twenty-one which is an interagency DOD [Department of Defense], tri-service board, was to work with that committee. I helped to nominate the members of the committee and work with them to, as they studied. It's, the members of the committee were all from academia and industry. They're non-governmental, but I was the government liaison to assist them as needed in trying to understand military systems. And they did the study on how light-weighting can impact that, and what needs to be done in the future in that area.

Lilia Abron

Chief executive officer and chemical engineer Lilia Ann Abron was born on March 8, 1945 in Memphis, Tennessee. Her father was a school principal and her mother was a school teacher who taught art and geography. Abron attended Lemoyne College in Memphis, Tennessee where she received her B.S. degree in chemistry in 1966. She earned her M.S. degree in sanitary engineering from Washington University in St. Louis in 1968. After receiving her M.S. degree, Abron worked for the Kansas City Water Department. She went on to become a research engineer for the Metropolitan Sanitary District of Greater Chicago. Abron received her Ph.D. in chemical engineering from the University of Iowa in 1972, the first African American woman to do so.

After completing her education, Abron served as an assistant professor of civil engineering at Tennessee State University and held a joint appointment as an assistant professor of environmental engineering at Vanderbilt University. In 1975, she joined the faculty of Howard University as an assistant professor of civil and environmental engineering while serving as a consultant to local engineering firms. Abron founded PEER Consultants in 1978, an environmental engineering consulting firm that provides solutions to the problems of contamination of the environment. Her firm had contracts with the Superfund program including the Boston Harbor cleanup; the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy through its Hazardous Waste Remedial Actions Program. In 1995, Abron founded Peer Africa with the mission of building energy-efficient homes in post-apartheid South Africa. Peer Africa’s Witsand iEEECO (Integrated Energy Environment Empowerment-cost Optimization) Sustainable Human Settlement won the American Academy of Engineers 2012 Superior Achievement Award.

Abron is a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority and the International Women’s Forum. Professionally, she is a member of the Water Environment Federation, American Water Works Association and American Society of Civil Engineers. She also serves on the Advisory Board for the College of Engineering, University of South Florida. Abron has been active in in community serving as the president of the Washington DC chapter of Jack and Jill of American, Inc., and as a board member for the Baptist Home for Children. She was an original participant of the 1975 American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) study, “The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science.” In 1999, Abron was the recipient of the Hancher-Finkbine Alumni Medallion from the University of Iowa; in 2001, she was awarded the Magic Hands Award by LeMoyne-Owen College, and in 2004, she was elected to the National Academy of Arts and Sciences. Abron has three adult sons.

Lilia Ann Abron was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 17, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.113

Sex

Female

Interview Date

6/17/2012

Last Name

Abron

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

A.

Occupation
Schools

LeMoyne-Owen College

Washington University in St Louis

University of Iowa

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Lilia

Birth City, State, Country

Memphis

HM ID

ABR01

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Tennessee

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France

Favorite Quote

I won't worry about that today, I'll worry about it tomorrow.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

3/8/1945

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Chemical engineer Lilia Abron (1945 - ) , the first African American woman to receive her Ph.D. in chemical engineering, founded PEER Consultants, an environmental engineering consulting firm.

Employment

Kansas City water department

Tennessee State University

Vanderbilt University

Howard University

PEER Consultants

Peer Africa

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Lilia Abron's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron talks about her mother's growing up and education

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron describes her mother's family resemblance

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Lilia Abron talks about her mother's role in the family

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Lilia Abron talks about her family as land owners

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Lilia Abron describes her father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about her grandparents

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron talks about her father's education and how her parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron talks about her siblings and her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron talks about her childhood neighborhoods

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Lilia Abron describes the sights, sounds, and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Lilia Abron talks about the racial climate of Memphis when she was a child

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Lilia Abron talks about her childhood career interests

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about her elementary school experience

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron talks about the structure of her childhood schools

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron talks about her family's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron talks about her family's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement- part 2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron talks about her academic standing during high school

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Lilia Abron talks about her social life during high school

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Lilia Abron talks about her decision to attend Lemoyne Owen College

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Lilia Abron talks about her experience at Lemoyne-Owen College

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about famous people that visited Lemoyne-Owen College

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron talks about the music of Memphis and her peers from college

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron talks about her peers during her college years

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron talks about her decision to major in chemistry

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron talks about her decision to pursue her graduate studies at Washington University

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Lilia Abron talks about her experience at Washington University

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Lilia Abron talks about what a sanitary engineer does

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about environmental justice and her professors at Washington University

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron describes the social unrest after Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron talks about her mentors and research at the University of Iowa

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron talks about bottled water

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron talks about her post-doctoral employment opportunities and African American women in STEM

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Lilia Abron talks about her experience teaching at Howard University and how her career trajectory shifted

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about how she met her husband

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron talks about her business, PEER Consultants

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron talks about environmental racism

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron talks about her consulting projects from her business, PEER Consultants

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron talks about PEER Africa and her work in Africa- part 1

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Lilia Abron talks about PEER Africa and her work in Africa- part 2

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Lilia Abron talks about her awards and her future plans

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about her business partner, Douglas Guy

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron talks about the dynamics of working in South Africa

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron reflects on her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Lilia Abron talks about the business operations at PEER

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Lilia Abron reflects on her career and talks about the challenges of owning a small business

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Lilia Abron talks about her family

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Lilia Abron talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Lilia Abron describes her photos

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$6

DAStory

5$5

DATitle
Lilia Abron talks about her decision to pursue her graduate studies at Washington University
Lilia Abron talks about PEER Africa and her work in Africa- part 1
Transcript
So then I saw these signs on the bulletin board one day for fellowships in sanitary engineering. What is that? And then about that time I, I had read Silent Spring and trying to figure out you know what to do. And the thing with Silent Spring just kind of upset me as to what we were doing. But then I, I hadn't connected the two and then I saw this. So I said well hmm, interesting. So I wrote and asked them what it was all about and they were recruiting. They were out looking for minority students cause this was beginning to be the heyday when white schools were going after black students and all. So they sent a group down to recruit me and that was so funny. My mom had to make sure that they were going to look after me. I mean I am grown, graduating from college and she still wants to know if I'm going to be safe on campus and are they going to look after me, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. But at any rate, so I got the full fellowship, full ride at Washington University. And I had read up about the curriculum and what they did and then I was beginning to put the Silent Spring together with what they did and oh!, so that's how that happened.$$Okay. All right, so Washington University in St. Louis, this is 1966. You start--now oh, before we leave Lemoyne, were there any special teachers that, like that you remember there that were either a mentor to you or really impressed you there?$$My chemistry professor, Dr. Buehler.$$Doctor what?$$Dr. Buehler, B-U-E-H-L-E-R, pushed me, kept me going, kept me moving. Dr. Williamson, she was the English professor and a linguist, probably the first black to get a Ph.D. in linguistics. She and my mom by the way were at Lemoyne together. She was younger than my mother. So I think when my mom was graduating she was just coming in and she was a Delta also. But she was really four years, I was there, fantastic. And she was doing a book on black speech and one of my jobs is I transcribed a lot of her tapes. So that was really fascinating watching her write a book. She wrote a book, never met anybody who wrote a book. And Mr. Whittaker he was, who was a music professor but he had taught me piano lessons for whole--all twelve years. So those are the people that really stand out. Professor Gibson who was the biology professor got really upset when I got the fellowship from Washington University and he just frankly told me to my face that I would never make it. But that's you know you had, still had stuff like that at Lemoyne even though you wouldn't know it. But you, you know--I wasn't--$$(Unclear).$$I wasn't a biology major. I wasn't--he just said you won't make it. You won't, you know. I don't know some people are like that. Only his students were the best and his students all went to Meharry [Medical College] and he handpicked who he considered were the best students. I wasn't one of his handpicked--I never wanted to be cause I didn't want to major in biology. And I think those are the ones that really stand out.$Now you started PEER Africa in 1995, right?$$Well '94 [1994] and we incorporated in '95 [1995].$$Okay. Tell us how that got started.$$Well I had wanted to go international started around 1990 and I had looked at going into Liberia because we thought the war would be over. Didn't know that it's still not over but at any rate a friend of mine, I was on the advisory board for the business school at Langston University and 1993 he called up one day and said oh, I'm going to have our next board meeting in South Africa. And I said you're going to have your next board meeting from Langston University B School in South Africa? Yes! I said, okay I guess we'll go. And I had already kind of started thinking about this was '93 [1993], ninety--this was '94 [1994], '94 [1994] and Nelson Mandela was president so I had kind of started thinking about umm, wonder if there is the opportunity that I might be able to do something in South Africa. So I said okay. So I went to the board meeting and while I was there for those two weeks for the board meeting I started looking around on the possibly of working, doing, see how we could do working. I wanted to do classical environmental engineering cause South Africa had said they wanted tourism to be one of their number one attractions and the country is very contaminated from all of the mining they do over there. They--it's a very rich country and they have--you name it, the minerals they have. They have--they're the fifth largest export of coal in the world, they have diamonds, they have gold, they have platinum, they have everything. So we had started talking to the Chamber of Mines about doing clean up work for them and President Mandela had instituted this housing program where he had set aside 5 percent of their GDP to get his homeless families into formal housing. So you had all of these housing projects going on and I'd ride up and down the street and see all of these and I kept wondering why they weren't doing them correctly with so many houses they had to build, why weren't they taking sustainable design into consideration and passive solar. And now this was before it became the buzz word that it is now, this is in '94 [1994], '95 [1995]. But I still felt with 5 million home, come on, or 5 million homeless families, surely you got to do this thing right and they weren't. So I went to Secretary O'Leary who was head of Energy under bill Clinton and they had this--$$It was Hazel O'Leary.$$Huh?$$Hazel O'Leary.$$Hazel, yeah. And they had this program that they had set up called Gore-Mbeki Bi-National Commission and six months, every six months they would either come to the U.S. or the U.S. would go to South Africa and this was a cooperation between the two vice presidents which they thought were going to become the presidents and to help them get up on their feet after apartheid. So I went to her and said you know one thing, sure would like to demonstrate passive solar and all this building they're doing. So she said well I'll give you a little money. I said what's little? Why don't you build one? So we became part of what they call the housing program under the Gore-Mbeki Bi-National Commission. So we were able to put up a couple of pallet houses and so that's how we got started in South Africa was through--we had already you know made some inroads and everything but that relationship really helped to push us over the top and to help us get solidified.

Arnold Stancell

Chemical engineer and corporate oil executive Arnold Stancell was born on November 16, 1936 in Harlem, New York to Maria Lucas, a seamstress and Francis Stancell, a musician. He lived with his single mother and was focused on his education throughout his youth. After passing competitive exams to attend Stuyvesant High School, Stancell went on to City College of New York where he graduated magna cum laude with his B.S. degree in chemical engineering in 1958. Stancell was awarded a graduate fellowship from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and became the first African American to earn his Ph.D. degree from MIT in chemical engineering in 1962.

After graduation, Stancell worked at Mobil Oil Corporation from 1962 to 1970, researching new chemical and plastic products. During this time, he was awarded eleven patents for new plastics processes and plasma (ionized gas) reactions for new products. In 1970, Stancell took a leave of absence from Mobil Oil to teach at MIT. He started a research program on plasma reactions at surfaces and his student, David Lam, went on to found Lam Research, the preeminent company worldwide in plasma etching of circuits into the surface of silicon chips. In 1971, Stancell declined a tenured professorship position at MIT to return to Mobil Oil. He continued to excel at Mobil, becoming vice president of Mobil Plastics in 1976 and led the commercialization of a new plastic film that revolutionized packaging and replaced cellophane. In 1982 he became vice president of Mobil Europe Marketing and Refining based in London. He then progressed through a number of additional executive positions becoming vice president of oil and natural gas Exploration and Production in 1989 responsible for finding and developing oil and natural gas reserves in the U.S., Europe, the Middle East and Australia. Stancell initiated, negotiated and launched the now $70 billion liquefied natural gas production joint venture between Mobil and Qatar which sells natural gas to markets worldwide.

In 1993, he retired from Mobil after a thirty-one year career and a year later accepted George Institute of Tecnology’s invitation to join its faculty as professor of chemical engineering. He became the Turner Professor of Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering in 2001, and in 2004 retired as Professor Emeritus. After the 2010 British Petroleum (BP) oil spill, Stancell consulted and advised the United States Department of Interior. In 2011, he was appointed by President Barack Obama to the National Science Board.

Stancell has received numerous recognitions including the American Institute of Chemical Engineers National Award for Chemical Engineering Practice, Career Achievement Award of City College of New York, Professional Achievement Award of the National Organization for the Professional Advancement of Black Chemists and Chemical Engineers and in 1992 was named Black Engineer of the Year. In 1997, he was inducted into the National Academy of Engineering and in 2009, was elected to its Board. In 2010, he was appointed to the Governing Board of the National Research Council. He has also received numerous outstanding teacher awards. Arnold Stancell is married to artist Constance Newton Stancell.

Arnold Stancell was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 14, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.090

Sex

Male

Interview Date

5/14/2012

Last Name

Stancell

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

F

Occupation
Schools

Stuyvesant High School

City College of New York

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Arnold

Birth City, State, Country

New York

HM ID

STA07

Favorite Season

Spring

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

Europe

Favorite Quote

Everything comes to he that waiteth, if he worketh while he waited.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Connecticut

Birth Date

11/16/1936

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Stamford

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Beef Tenderloin

Short Description

Chemical engineer and corporate executive Arnold Stancell (1936 - ) had a thirty-one year career with Mobil Oil starting in research and rising to vice president of Exploration and Production. He served on the National Science Board and advised the United States government after the British Petroleum (BP) oil spill.

Employment

Georgia Institute of Technology

Mobil Oil Company

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Arnold Stancell's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about meeting his father

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell describes his earliest childhood memory and his childhood home

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Arnold Stancell describes the sights, sounds and smells of his growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Arnold Stancell talks about his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his junior high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his involvement in the church and youth organizations

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his junior high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about his high school experience and his decision to go to City College of New York

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his experience at City College of New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about social baggage

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about living in Harlem during the 1950s

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his interest in polymers

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his first professional job at Exxon and his decision to pursue a doctoral degree

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about his perceptions of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his experience at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his mentorship at MIT

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell describes his dissertation on improving crude oil recovery

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work at Mobil

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about the poetic qualities of thermodynamics

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work with plasma

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Arnold Stancell talks about his professional relationship with NOBCChE and how he met his wife

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his marriages

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work at Mobil Chemical, part 1

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work at Mobil Chemical, part 2

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell considers the environmental impact of his work

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about his progressive roles at Mobil, part 1

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his progressive roles at Mobil, part 2

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about David Lam

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his international work with Mobil

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about Mobil's drilling activities and drill technology

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about the Quatar Deal

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his retirement from Mobil

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about the BP Oil Spill

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his perceptions of U.S. education

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his family

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Arnold Stancell talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell describes his photos

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

5$2

DATitle
Arnold Stancell talks about his progressive roles at Mobil, part 1
Arnold Stancell talks about his international work with Mobil
Transcript
Okay, alright. Now, now in 1980, you were in the management of Mobil Corporate Planning in New York?$$Yes.$$Okay.$$Ye that's--$$How did that come about, first of all?$$Well, I must have done a good job on the vice president of plastics, so I think the president of Mobil heard a presentation from me on our plastics business. And so this particular job, when you come now to New York--I came from the Rochester area, Macedon, New York, down to New York City headquarters. Now you're in a position where you're handling planning for all of Mobil, and you report to the senior vice president for planning of Mobil. And he's on the board. So now the board directors, the presidents of Mobil's major divisions and the chairman and the president of Mobil all get a chance to see you up close. You make presentations, you make points regarding strategies of the different businesses and so on. And I guess I could have used a little mentoring more at that time, so that now I've been with Mobil for awhile, I mean, I just, I'm coming right out--first I was in research, then I ran a business--I'm coming into world headquarters. I mean I don't know the rules of the game, and I'm in a very visible position, being this manager of corporate planning, making presentations to the board and so on. So, you start picking up on what's the way things are done. I always called it the way I saw it, though. And so I must have done pretty well with that, but that was a very exciting time, because Mobil made a bid for Marathon Oil, and I started getting more into the financial aspects of Mobil, of course through the business of my prior job, running the film business, plastic film business. So with corporate planning, you get heavily into financial matters, but a president asked me to head up a task force within a small group, and he wanted to keep it quiet. To select the target, Mobil was ready to make an acquisition that we would be an oil company, and of the various oil companies, what's our recommendation? And so, that was really exciting. We worked, obviously, secretly and so on, and we chose Marathon Oil. We thought they were heavily undervalued compared to their real underlying value. I came up with estimates of their underlying value, and we had experts from the financial houses worrying about how you structured a deal, and it was a heady time. we mounted our offer. It was on the low side, and Marathon rejected it. Now, Marathon's another oil company, so they knew that if Mobil takes them over, you know, we didn't need their whole super structure. So, they held us up and they filed an antitrust suit. We increased our offer. We kept increasing our offer. But they were successful, as you might expect, really, that they filed an antitrust. That takes time, and people had started at sixty dollars a share and it got up quickly to 70 dollars a share, 80 dollars a share. We finished putting our offer out there at 120 dollars a share, and people didn't take our offer, they took the 120 dollar a share offer from U.S. Steel. U.S. Steel joined in, and U.S. Steel bought Marathon. And of course, there was not going to be antitrust issues that Marathon had some refineries, they had some service stations, and if Mobil and Marathon got together, it would restrain trade. There were no issues, because U.S. Steel is a steel company. So they quickly closed their deal and we were locked out. So, people thought we would never close on our deal, it would take too long. But here's a guy who was 120 dollars a share right now. So that was very disappointing that we missed out on the Marathon acquisition.$Okay, alright. Now, when we broke, you were in London as a vice president for Mobil Europe, right?$$Yes.$$And the '80's [1980s] were a time, I was thinking about this during the break, that British Petroleum started, you know, making inroads into the U.S. market in the '80's [1980s]. I don't know if they were doing that when you were there, but it was--$$Yes, they were, they had a presence in the U.S. market through Standard Oil Ohio. and their exploration and production, they were active in the Gulf of Mexico and other areas of the U.S. They were not aggressive, but they had a presence. The early '80's [1980s] in London, Europe was going through where like Margaret Thatcher was putting in her conservative policies in Britain, and there was a big fight with the coal unions. And it was a time of transition in Europe to more of a market economy, even more of a market economy, so--$$Okay. I know that was the beginning of it. That was, Standard Oil of Ohio was basically taken over by BP.$$Yes, that's right.$$By the end of the '80's [1980s], they had not only Standard Oil of Ohio, I think, but Standard Oil, period, right?$$They had Standard Oil of Indiana, Amoco. They ended up merging with--around late '80's [1980s], like '89' [1989] or something like that, yeah.$$So, what were you doing? So you're in London, and what were some of the highlights of what you're--$$It gets a little--my district--the advantage of having a technical background, and you're also running a business, I think you can maybe see some issues. And in terms of when you build a refinery, it's not just saying I'm going to run some crude oil through here and get some products. You've got to be concerned about the location of those products, because the transportation costs of those products to the different markets can be considerable. So, people recognize that, but then also the configuration. What hardware do you put in a refinery? If you just put in simple hardware--so, you got a refinery, it takes crude oil and gives you some products, but it's the type of products you get. You want to maximize gasoline, jet fuel, heating oil and diesel. Those are the products that have the value to them. The heavy part, after you get through refining, has low value. So, you really want to take the heavy part that has low value and put investment in to convert that up to these higher value products. So you want crude oil to come into the box, and out just comes gasoline, heating oil, jet fuel, and diesel. And if you don't have that, your refinery is going to be uncompetitive. You won't have the margins to survive against refineries that have all that hardware. So, we cut through all the issues of in terms of what refineries you should keep, which ones we should invest in, by having this simple picture, and we use that very powerfully. We ended up as negative, but we ended up shutting four refineries. But we invested heavily in the remaining ones to make them only produce G and D, and overall we were more profitable. So that was very exciting. I had a strategy that made sense. The, just the different countries, I'm trying to think of any particular issues-France--we had a lot of union issues because we were trying to make our operations more efficient. But the laws of the country gave a lot of strength to the unions, and you couldn't close, you couldn't shut down... As I mentioned, some refineries you want to keep, some you don't. And so it was difficult, very difficult. In France we tried to shut down a refinery which was a negative, but it made economic sense. We were going to continue with the workers in other operations, but we couldn't move them. See, the mobility of workers in Europe wasn't, isn't like the mobility here in the U.S. If you have an operation and you say, look you can be more efficient, you can have your job, but you'll have your job over here. I know it disrupts your family, but, et cetera. But people, a lot of people will do that. But in Europe, they won't. And so we had union people bust into our offices in France and Paris armed with bats and threatening the general manager. So I got a call from the general manager, the president of Mobil France, and he says, "Arnie" (laughter), because they call me Arnie, "We got a problem here. The workers are rioting here, threatening and so on." So, I said, "You've got to call the police." (laughter). Cooler heads ended up prevailing, but you know, they took to the streets on that one. We ended up convincing enough workers to take the deal and things calmed down, but it was a trying time.$$What was the deal?$$The deal was that we had another refinery location and a refinery we thought was competitive that had the kind of hardware that I was telling you about. And we were going to expand that. We could move a bunch of those jobs up north. So they were down in this lovely area near the Mediterranean, charming restaurants, charming hillside, and we were going to move them up to Ravensheugh, north, and they didn't want any part of that. So, and then for those who didn't want to move at all, they agreed in negotiation with the union on a payout. But a bunch did take it, and moved up to Ravensheugh. There were those kinds of things in Europe.$$Alright. So you were there for--$$I think it's almost three and a half years, or four years, three years.$$Okay, so you arrived in '82' [1982], right?$$'82' [1982] and left in '85' [1985].$$'85' [1985], right.$$Yes three years, yes.$$So you became vice president of Mobil Global Marketing and Refining Planning in New York.$$Yes so that's Mobil's deal of, now you've finished an operating job, and now you go back to world headquarters and now back into planning, but now for broader knowledge and strategy for a major division. I had the corporate planning job, but this is a way now of getting more familiar with the marketing and refining. I had not been in marketing and refining. So, with that job--I mean, I was in marketing and refining, operating--now I'm getting marketing and refining, a broad overview.$$Okay, alright. So what are some of the highlights of that?$$That was, I'm trying to think of the, at that time, now we were, in terms of the particular operation, you know, it really was a continuation of this thought that I started in Europe where now I could apply it to Mobil's global marketing and refining, where you look to your refineries that are going to be your keepers, because you're going to invest heavily in them with this upgrading to make more valuable products, and less investment going into closure of the office for overall better efficiency. And we applied that worldwide. of course we operated-- marketing and refining, you know, we had Japan, we had, you name it. We were marketing and refining throughout the--well, Singapore, Australia. I didn't start it, but we started in Saudi Arabia with marketing and refining, mainly refining. So it was a continuation of the strategy that we started in Europe, but now applying it more broadly [unclear].