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George Langford

Biologist and academic administrator George M. Langford was born on August 26, 1944 in Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina to Lillie and Maynard Langford. Langford excelled at math in high school and was fascinated by the shapes and structures found under the microscope. He studied biology at Fayetteville State University earning his B.S. degree in 1966. Despite the lack of laboratory facilities, Langford had good mentors who persuaded him to attend graduate school. He earned his M.S. degree in 1969 and his Ph.D. degree in 1971, both in cell biology from the Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT). He finished his postdoctoral training in 1973 from the cell biology program at the University of Pennsylvania as a National Institutes of Health (NIH) Fellow.

In 1973, Langford joined the faculty of the University of Massachusetts as a professor of cell biology and conducted research at the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts in 1976. He continued his career in academia, teaching at Howard University in 1977 and joining the faculty of University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill in 1979. He was promoted to a full professor at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill in 1988. Langford’s research focused on the nerves of invertebrates as well as cellular motility. He was honored with an appointment to the National Science Foundation (NSF) where he served as director of cell biology from 1988 to 1989. In 1991, Langford joined the faculty of Dartmouth College as the Ernest Everett Just Professor of Natural Sciences and a professor of biological sciences where he remained until 2005. Between 2005 and 2008, Langford was employed at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst as dean of the College of Natural Sciences and Mathematics and Distinguished Professor of Biology. In 2008, he was engaged by Syracuse University as dean of the College of Arts and Sciences.

Langford holds memberships in many nationally prominent professional societies including the American Society for Cell Biology, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the Corporation of the Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA and the Society of Sigma Xi. He served on the National Science Board (NSB) from 1998 to 2004, where he served as chair of the Education and Human Resources Committee and the Vannevar Bush Award Committee. Langford has been recognized numerous times for his work including the Illinois Institute of Technology Professional Achievement Award and the American Society for Cell Biology Ernest Everett Just Lectureship Award. Langford received an honorary Doctorate from Beloit College in 2003. He is married to Sylvia Langford and they have three children.

George Langford was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 6, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.165

Sex

Male

Interview Date

8/6/2012

Last Name

Langford

Middle Name

Malcolm

Schools

Potecasi Graded School

W.S. Creecy High School

Fayetteville State University

Illinois Institute of Technology

University of Pennsylvania

Beloit College

Woodland Elementary

First Name

George

Birth City, State, Country

Halifax

HM ID

LAN08

Favorite Season

Christmas

State

North Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

C'est la vie.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

8/26/1944

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Syracuse

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Apples

Short Description

Cell biologist and academic administrator George Langford (1944 - ) is an expert on cell motility and served as a dean at University of Massachusetts, Amherst and Syracuse University

Employment

Syracuse University

University of Massachusetts, Amherst

Dartmouth College

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Howard University

University of Massachusetts, Boston

University of Pennsylvania

National Science Foundation (NSF)

Marine Biological Laboratory

Argonne National Laboratory

Favorite Color

Red

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of George Langford's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - George Langford lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - George Langford describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - George Langford talks about his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - George Langford talks about his mother's growing up in Potecasi, North Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - George Langford describes his mother's remarkable skills as a farmer and a homemaker

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - George Langford describes his father's family background - part one

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - George Langford describes his father's family background - part two

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - George Langford talks about his father attending high school, and his paternal family's reputation as merchants and tradespeople

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - George Langford discusses the history and demographics of Potecasi, North Carolina, and talks about Nat Turner and the slave revolt of 1831

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - George Langford describes the segregated town of Potecasi, North Carolina, while he was growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - George Langford talks about his father's family receiving an education

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - George Langford talks about his parents getting married in the early 1920s

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - George Langford talks about segregation in North Carolina, and his father's role in mediating peace during inter-racial conflicts

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - George Langford describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - George Langford talks about his siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - George Langford describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - George Langford describes his childhood memories on his family's farm in Potecasi, North Carolina, and talks about the home where he grew up

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - George Langford describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up in Potecasi, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - George Langford describes his experience as the youngest of nine children

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - George Langford describes his interests while growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - George Langford talks about his father's physical strength and his long life

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - George Langford talks about his access to African American magazines and newspapers while growing up in Potecasi, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - George Langford talks about all the schools that he attended, and describes his elementary school experience at Potecasi Graded School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - George Langford describes his experience in elementary school

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - George Langford talks about the high elementary school drop-out rate while he was in school

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - George Langford describes his involvement in Church as a child, and his recollections of the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - George Langford describes his experience during segregation in Potecasi, North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - George Langford describes his experience at W.S. Creecy High School, his interest in science, and the mentorship that he received from his teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - George Langford talks about his interest in the physical sciences and his decision to major in biology in college

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - George Langford talks about his academic performance and his involvement in extracurricular activities at W.S. Creecy High School

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - George Langford talks about his mentors at W.S. Creecy High School, and his decision to pursue a college education at Fayetteville State University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - George Langford describes his experience at Fayetteville State University

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - George Langford talks about his involvement in the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - George Langford describes how the student government at Fayetteville State University facilitated the integration of Fayetteville in the 1960s-part one

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - George Langford describes how the student government at Fayetteville State University facilitated the integration of Fayetteville in the 1960s-part two

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - George Langford talks about his mentors, Joseph Knuckles and F. Roy Hunter, at Fayetteville State University

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - George Langford describes the strong liberal arts and education programs at Fayetteville State University, and his involvement in music while there

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - George Langford describes his first winter in Chicago, and talks about the blizzard of 1967

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - George Langford talks about his experience in Chicago, and how he met his wife, Sylvia

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - George Langford talks about his doctoral advisor, William Danforth

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - George Langford talks about his interest in cell biology, and his mentors, Teru Hayashi and Jean Clark Dan, at the Illinois Institute of Technology

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - George Langford talks about the unrest in Chicago, following Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination in 1968

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - George Langford talks about other black students at the Illinois Institute of Technology while he was a student there in the late 1960s and early 1970s

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - George Langford describes his Ph.D. dissertation on the growth of the unicellular protozoa of genus Euglena, in the absence of oxygen

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - George Langford talks about the role of the American Society for Cell Biology (ASCB) in shaping his research career

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - George Langford describes his introduction to cell biology and live-cell imaging, and his experience at the University of Pennsylvania

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - George Langford describes his postdoctoral studies on the mechanism of motility in Pyrsonympha, the native protozoa found in termite guts

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - George Langford talks about his experience at the University of Massachusetts in Boston and his reasons for leaving there

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - George Langford describes his rich scientific experience at the Woods Hole Marine Biological Laboratory (MBL), and its influence on his research career

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - George Langford talks about the life of Ernest Everett Just, his pioneering science, and his tenure at the Woods Hole Marine Biological Laboratory

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - George Langford talks about the similarities between his scientific career and that of Ernest Everett Just

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - George Langford describes being an African American researcher at the University of Pennsylvania in the 1970s, and current racial trends in science

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - George Langford talks about his appointment at Howard University and his subsequent transition to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - George Langford describes the racial challenges at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - George Langford talks about segregation at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the surrounding community in the 1980s

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - George Langford describes his experience as the chairman of the Minority Affairs Committee of the American Society for Cell Biology (ASCB)

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - George Langford describes his experience as the director of the cell biology program at the National Science Foundation (NSF)

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - George Langford talks about his appointment as the Ernest Everett Just Professor of Natural Sciences at Dartmouth College in 1991

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - George Langford describes the liberal arts style of education at Dartmouth College

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - George Langford describes his efforts to increase the retention of African American students in science at Dartmouth College

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - George Langford talks about the field of social science, and his efforts to educate his colleagues and students about the concept of "white privilege"

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - George Langford describes his groundbreaking discovery of actin-dependent organelle movement in squid axoplasm

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - George Langford talks about biologist, Robert D. Allen

Tape: 6 Story: 11 - George Langford describes the implications of his discovery of actin-dependent organelle movement in squid axoplasm

Tape: 6 Story: 12 - George Langford describes his service on the National Science Board, and talks about atmospheric scientist, Warren Washington

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - George Langford talks about his service on the National Science Board's National Workforce Task Force Sub-Committee in 1999

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - George Langford describes his service as the dean of the College of Natural Sciences and Mathematics at the University of Massachusetts

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - George Langford describes his service as the dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at Syracuse University

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - George Langford describes his current research on yeast toxins and the collaboration between science and humanities at Syracuse University

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - George Langford shares his perspectives on how modern technology affects education

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - George Langford describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - George Langford reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - George Langford reflects upon his choices and shares his advice to young students who want to pursue studies in the STEM fields

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - George Langford talks about his family

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - George Langford talks about his exposure to the liberal arts and humanities at Dartmouth College

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - George Langford talks about how he would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$7

DAStory

8$1

DATitle
George Langford describes his rich scientific experience at the Woods Hole Marine Biological Laboratory (MBL), and its influence on his research career
George Langford talks about his service on the National Science Board's National Workforce Task Force Sub-Committee in 1999
Transcript
So, it was while you were there [University of Massachusetts in Boston] that you took advantage of the Marine Biological Laboratory [MBL] at Woods Hole [Massachusetts].$$That's right, that's right. I began going to the Marine Biological Laboratory in '72 [1972] when I was at Penn [University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania]. And then I continued going for the time that I was at the University of Massachusetts in Boston.$$Okay. Well, tell us the significance of this place. And then there's another, there's a figure in the history of black science that spent a lot of time there, Dr. Ernest Everett Just [pioneering African American embryologist who studied the early development of marine invertebrates].$$Right.$$I think you've discussed him in lectures and that sort of thing, so--$$Right. Yes, so the Marine Biological Laboratory became one of the most important institutions in my development as a scientist. I went there while I was a post-doc at Penn because my, post-doc mentor Shinya Inoue always moved his laboratory there in the summers. And I went there to take the physiology course, and this was one of those amazing experiences. It's a total emersion course. It teaches you really the fine points of research science, and you're learning it from the best people in the discipline. So it's a great place, it's very student-oriented. Faculty members who come there do it because they love to do it. They are accessible in ways that they're not when they're at the home institution. And it creates this atmosphere of openness and really strong support. So, you develop, you know, an excellent network of individuals to work with as a result of being there. So, I went there in '72 [1972] for the physiology course, and I went back in '74 [1974] for the neurobiology course. And then I began to go as an independent scientist. I served as an MBL Steps [ph.] Fellow, a Macy--Josiah Macy Fellow, working in the laboratory of other scientists as I was developing my own research program, and then began to go there as an independent investigator. So, it's really, it's a unique place. If you've never been there it's really worth a visit because there's just none other place like it. So, for my own advisor, you know, because of the stress of all of the things he had to do when he was at the university, it was very hard to get in to talk to him. But in Woods Hole, it was easy, you know. You had, you could sit out on a bench by the water and talk at lunch. You could go--you know, you could spend time in the evenings working together. So, people were just accessible, and it was a wonderful learning experience. Because as I said before, you remember--I, you know, research science was all new to me, and it takes a long time to really develop a strong network and to understand just how to move a science project forward. So, I depended a great deal on the network of friends that I developed at the Marine Biological Laboratory.$[In] '99 [1999], you served as vice chair of the National Science--, I'm sorry, the National Science Board's National Workforce Task Force Sub-Committee.$$Right, right.$$What is that, now?$$So, the chair of the board at the time, Eamon (ph., unclear) [M. Kelly], wanted to address this issue of the lack of students going into the sciences. And so, he put together a task force of the board to really look at this issue. And so, for a year we actually studied the trends for students going into the sciences. And, you know, it was really frightening what we observed, you know. The data showed that we were still under-producing students in the sciences. We were doing better in the biological sciences but the numbers were very, very, small in physics and they were pretty miserable in chemistry and really bad in engineering. And so, the board put together a strong set of recommendations on how we could increase the number of students, the domestic students, who were majoring in the sciences. This is an ongoing problem, we haven't solved it. But the board was really on top of it way back there in '98 [1998], '99 [1999] to try to address that issue.$$Okay, okay. Now in 2000 you were nominated by President [Bill] Clinton for a second six-year term on the National Science Board, and you then subsequently served in 2002, you served as chair of the National Science Board Education and Human Resources Committee.$$Right, right. So, the board had several standing committees. And one of the standing committees was the Committee on the Education and Human Resources Directive. And so, this was a very important assignment as well, because this was the committee that oversaw all of the program activities at the NSF [National Science Foundation] that were designed to increase the pipeline. You know, programs that were designed to increase the quality of training in the public schools in K-12 [kindergarten through twelfth grade] as well as curriculum changes within the universities. And so, this, the committee was in charge of oversight of all of those grant programs.$$Okay. How closely did you work with Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson? You know, she was in charge of the science committee.$$That's right, yes. I got to attend several workshops that she organized to deal with this question. And she was a very, very strong supporter of the National Science Foundation and the programs that it had designed to increase students in the sciences. So, she was considered one of our strongest champions on the [Capitol] Hill.$$Okay.

Arnold Stancell

Chemical engineer and corporate oil executive Arnold Stancell was born on November 16, 1936 in Harlem, New York to Maria Lucas, a seamstress and Francis Stancell, a musician. He lived with his single mother and was focused on his education throughout his youth. After passing competitive exams to attend Stuyvesant High School, Stancell went on to City College of New York where he graduated magna cum laude with his B.S. degree in chemical engineering in 1958. Stancell was awarded a graduate fellowship from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and became the first African American to earn his Ph.D. degree from MIT in chemical engineering in 1962.

After graduation, Stancell worked at Mobil Oil Corporation from 1962 to 1970, researching new chemical and plastic products. During this time, he was awarded eleven patents for new plastics processes and plasma (ionized gas) reactions for new products. In 1970, Stancell took a leave of absence from Mobil Oil to teach at MIT. He started a research program on plasma reactions at surfaces and his student, David Lam, went on to found Lam Research, the preeminent company worldwide in plasma etching of circuits into the surface of silicon chips. In 1971, Stancell declined a tenured professorship position at MIT to return to Mobil Oil. He continued to excel at Mobil, becoming vice president of Mobil Plastics in 1976 and led the commercialization of a new plastic film that revolutionized packaging and replaced cellophane. In 1982 he became vice president of Mobil Europe Marketing and Refining based in London. He then progressed through a number of additional executive positions becoming vice president of oil and natural gas Exploration and Production in 1989 responsible for finding and developing oil and natural gas reserves in the U.S., Europe, the Middle East and Australia. Stancell initiated, negotiated and launched the now $70 billion liquefied natural gas production joint venture between Mobil and Qatar which sells natural gas to markets worldwide.

In 1993, he retired from Mobil after a thirty-one year career and a year later accepted George Institute of Tecnology’s invitation to join its faculty as professor of chemical engineering. He became the Turner Professor of Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering in 2001, and in 2004 retired as Professor Emeritus. After the 2010 British Petroleum (BP) oil spill, Stancell consulted and advised the United States Department of Interior. In 2011, he was appointed by President Barack Obama to the National Science Board.

Stancell has received numerous recognitions including the American Institute of Chemical Engineers National Award for Chemical Engineering Practice, Career Achievement Award of City College of New York, Professional Achievement Award of the National Organization for the Professional Advancement of Black Chemists and Chemical Engineers and in 1992 was named Black Engineer of the Year. In 1997, he was inducted into the National Academy of Engineering and in 2009, was elected to its Board. In 2010, he was appointed to the Governing Board of the National Research Council. He has also received numerous outstanding teacher awards. Arnold Stancell is married to artist Constance Newton Stancell.

Arnold Stancell was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 14, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.090

Sex

Male

Interview Date

5/14/2012

Last Name

Stancell

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

F

Occupation
Schools

Stuyvesant High School

City College of New York

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Arnold

Birth City, State, Country

New York

HM ID

STA07

Favorite Season

Spring

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

Europe

Favorite Quote

Everything comes to he that waiteth, if he worketh while he waited.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Connecticut

Birth Date

11/16/1936

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Stamford

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Beef Tenderloin

Short Description

Chemical engineer and corporate executive Arnold Stancell (1936 - ) had a thirty-one year career with Mobil Oil starting in research and rising to vice president of Exploration and Production. He served on the National Science Board and advised the United States government after the British Petroleum (BP) oil spill.

Employment

Georgia Institute of Technology

Mobil Oil Company

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:10925,70:11726,80:17103,154:19150,194:20129,210:20485,215:25240,253:26274,266:29510,293:37244,357:37727,366:40832,420:44650,451:44986,456:47165,480:47750,492:48270,501:49245,523:53990,572:54506,579:54850,584:59830,622:66478,659:71038,696:71433,702:79050,799:79382,804:82339,828:82741,835:83344,845:84215,863:91444,945:105981,1156:113286,1222:113844,1233:116430,1253:116856,1260:132480,1429:132870,1436:133130,1441:133780,1456:134300,1467:134560,1472:135080,1481:137170,1487:139200,1501:146842,1536:147318,1544:147794,1552:148066,1557:148542,1566:149154,1576:161040,1737:161352,1742:162054,1752:169576,1849:170002,1857:175650,1906:176100,1914:180348,1982:185644,2029:186225,2038:186723,2045:192288,2105:192726,2111:198658,2185:198922,2190:199582,2201:205803,2272:206426,2280:207761,2299:212790,2367:237466,2614:238082,2623:238874,2633:248690,2710:249740,2729:250090,2735:251000,2751:251280,2756:251980,2770:254893,2803:256597,2831:257165,2841:263886,2875:264550,2885:265380,2895:266044,2905:269358,2916:269942,2925:270672,2937:271256,2947:282525,3038:283000,3044:283475,3050:295105,3164:295780,3174:296230,3181:300195,3230:300790,3238:318082,3439:318520,3446:319177,3457:319542,3463:324214,3558:329530,3587:330570,3601:332090,3636:333980,3648$0,0:3528,29:5364,48:6384,60:6792,65:12504,129:19072,191:19688,199:20480,209:21536,228:22064,235:23736,252:29343,319:30526,338:33630,386:34553,402:34837,407:35263,414:37020,422:44200,447:45550,469:55550,579:56795,590:59676,604:62613,627:65897,646:66182,652:67750,660:70889,708:71765,721:80306,803:80873,811:84218,845:84806,852:86276,866:107791,1152:113142,1198:114740,1219:137390,1446:139415,1494:141365,1530:141665,1535:147058,1551:147576,1560:148094,1569:154170,1666:155250,1694:155790,1704:156270,1714:156870,1726:159090,1784:159750,1800:160290,1810:167256,1844:167688,1851:168336,1861:180834,2040:182286,2071:183474,2094:183870,2102:188174,2125:193399,2170:194095,2179:194443,2184:197488,2247:203380,2316:204238,2368:225063,2601:225546,2610:226167,2621:227892,2648:229548,2689:230445,2705:230997,2718:232998,2760:236532,2774:236988,2781:241280,2834:244120,2860:245352,2872:253103,2956:253904,2966:255150,2984:264603,3089:264959,3094:265315,3099:278932,3211:279352,3217:281756,3240:282848,3259:284954,3295:285656,3307:289322,3390:289634,3395:301846,3591:302454,3600:305836,3625:306348,3634:306796,3643:307436,3654:307756,3660:311850,3709:312378,3721:313566,3747:313896,3753:314226,3762:318054,3843:318318,3848:320694,3907:327280,3972:328153,3989:328735,4004:362261,4403:362585,4412:373238,4533:373968,4544:374406,4551:375063,4562:376158,4580:383912,4660:385153,4704:389360,4740:394854,4828:397642,4874:399938,4915:405835,4953:409370,5006:409774,5011:422260,5152:423228,5164:423844,5173:429510,5259:429885,5265:430410,5274:436140,5315:440182,5393:448782,5542:449126,5547:450588,5566:451104,5573:452136,5587:460099,5673:463256,5703:463652,5711:463982,5717:469260,5778:481184,5914:484521,5986:488568,6069:500985,6152:503075,6173:515260,6232:534214,6302:536152,6323:536866,6331:537376,6338:541865,6374:542720,6386:543385,6394:543955,6401:545760,6425:551340,6485:559966,6597:560374,6602:572186,6724:576122,6795:576860,6814:593850,6919:594288,6925:598466,6991:599456,7011:599984,7020:605600,7090
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Arnold Stancell's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about meeting his father

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell describes his earliest childhood memory and his childhood home

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Arnold Stancell describes the sights, sounds and smells of his growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Arnold Stancell talks about his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his junior high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his involvement in the church and youth organizations

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his junior high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about his high school experience and his decision to go to City College of New York

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his experience at City College of New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about social baggage

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about living in Harlem during the 1950s

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his interest in polymers

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his first professional job at Exxon and his decision to pursue a doctoral degree

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about his perceptions of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his experience at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his mentorship at MIT

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell describes his dissertation on improving crude oil recovery

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work at Mobil

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about the poetic qualities of thermodynamics

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work with plasma

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Arnold Stancell talks about his professional relationship with NOBCChE and how he met his wife

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his marriages

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work at Mobil Chemical, part 1

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his work at Mobil Chemical, part 2

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell considers the environmental impact of his work

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about his progressive roles at Mobil, part 1

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his progressive roles at Mobil, part 2

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about David Lam

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about his international work with Mobil

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about Mobil's drilling activities and drill technology

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about the Quatar Deal

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell talks about the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell talks about his retirement from Mobil

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Arnold Stancell talks about the BP Oil Spill

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Arnold Stancell talks about his perceptions of U.S. education

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Arnold Stancell talks about his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Arnold Stancell reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Arnold Stancell talks about his family

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Arnold Stancell talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Arnold Stancell describes his photos

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

5$2

DATitle
Arnold Stancell talks about his progressive roles at Mobil, part 1
Arnold Stancell talks about his international work with Mobil
Transcript
Okay, alright. Now, now in 1980, you were in the management of Mobil Corporate Planning in New York?$$Yes.$$Okay.$$Ye that's--$$How did that come about, first of all?$$Well, I must have done a good job on the vice president of plastics, so I think the president of Mobil heard a presentation from me on our plastics business. And so this particular job, when you come now to New York--I came from the Rochester area, Macedon, New York, down to New York City headquarters. Now you're in a position where you're handling planning for all of Mobil, and you report to the senior vice president for planning of Mobil. And he's on the board. So now the board directors, the presidents of Mobil's major divisions and the chairman and the president of Mobil all get a chance to see you up close. You make presentations, you make points regarding strategies of the different businesses and so on. And I guess I could have used a little mentoring more at that time, so that now I've been with Mobil for awhile, I mean, I just, I'm coming right out--first I was in research, then I ran a business--I'm coming into world headquarters. I mean I don't know the rules of the game, and I'm in a very visible position, being this manager of corporate planning, making presentations to the board and so on. So, you start picking up on what's the way things are done. I always called it the way I saw it, though. And so I must have done pretty well with that, but that was a very exciting time, because Mobil made a bid for Marathon Oil, and I started getting more into the financial aspects of Mobil, of course through the business of my prior job, running the film business, plastic film business. So with corporate planning, you get heavily into financial matters, but a president asked me to head up a task force within a small group, and he wanted to keep it quiet. To select the target, Mobil was ready to make an acquisition that we would be an oil company, and of the various oil companies, what's our recommendation? And so, that was really exciting. We worked, obviously, secretly and so on, and we chose Marathon Oil. We thought they were heavily undervalued compared to their real underlying value. I came up with estimates of their underlying value, and we had experts from the financial houses worrying about how you structured a deal, and it was a heady time. we mounted our offer. It was on the low side, and Marathon rejected it. Now, Marathon's another oil company, so they knew that if Mobil takes them over, you know, we didn't need their whole super structure. So, they held us up and they filed an antitrust suit. We increased our offer. We kept increasing our offer. But they were successful, as you might expect, really, that they filed an antitrust. That takes time, and people had started at sixty dollars a share and it got up quickly to 70 dollars a share, 80 dollars a share. We finished putting our offer out there at 120 dollars a share, and people didn't take our offer, they took the 120 dollar a share offer from U.S. Steel. U.S. Steel joined in, and U.S. Steel bought Marathon. And of course, there was not going to be antitrust issues that Marathon had some refineries, they had some service stations, and if Mobil and Marathon got together, it would restrain trade. There were no issues, because U.S. Steel is a steel company. So they quickly closed their deal and we were locked out. So, people thought we would never close on our deal, it would take too long. But here's a guy who was 120 dollars a share right now. So that was very disappointing that we missed out on the Marathon acquisition.$Okay, alright. Now, when we broke, you were in London as a vice president for Mobil Europe, right?$$Yes.$$And the '80's [1980s] were a time, I was thinking about this during the break, that British Petroleum started, you know, making inroads into the U.S. market in the '80's [1980s]. I don't know if they were doing that when you were there, but it was--$$Yes, they were, they had a presence in the U.S. market through Standard Oil Ohio. and their exploration and production, they were active in the Gulf of Mexico and other areas of the U.S. They were not aggressive, but they had a presence. The early '80's [1980s] in London, Europe was going through where like Margaret Thatcher was putting in her conservative policies in Britain, and there was a big fight with the coal unions. And it was a time of transition in Europe to more of a market economy, even more of a market economy, so--$$Okay. I know that was the beginning of it. That was, Standard Oil of Ohio was basically taken over by BP.$$Yes, that's right.$$By the end of the '80's [1980s], they had not only Standard Oil of Ohio, I think, but Standard Oil, period, right?$$They had Standard Oil of Indiana, Amoco. They ended up merging with--around late '80's [1980s], like '89' [1989] or something like that, yeah.$$So, what were you doing? So you're in London, and what were some of the highlights of what you're--$$It gets a little--my district--the advantage of having a technical background, and you're also running a business, I think you can maybe see some issues. And in terms of when you build a refinery, it's not just saying I'm going to run some crude oil through here and get some products. You've got to be concerned about the location of those products, because the transportation costs of those products to the different markets can be considerable. So, people recognize that, but then also the configuration. What hardware do you put in a refinery? If you just put in simple hardware--so, you got a refinery, it takes crude oil and gives you some products, but it's the type of products you get. You want to maximize gasoline, jet fuel, heating oil and diesel. Those are the products that have the value to them. The heavy part, after you get through refining, has low value. So, you really want to take the heavy part that has low value and put investment in to convert that up to these higher value products. So you want crude oil to come into the box, and out just comes gasoline, heating oil, jet fuel, and diesel. And if you don't have that, your refinery is going to be uncompetitive. You won't have the margins to survive against refineries that have all that hardware. So, we cut through all the issues of in terms of what refineries you should keep, which ones we should invest in, by having this simple picture, and we use that very powerfully. We ended up as negative, but we ended up shutting four refineries. But we invested heavily in the remaining ones to make them only produce G and D, and overall we were more profitable. So that was very exciting. I had a strategy that made sense. The, just the different countries, I'm trying to think of any particular issues-France--we had a lot of union issues because we were trying to make our operations more efficient. But the laws of the country gave a lot of strength to the unions, and you couldn't close, you couldn't shut down... As I mentioned, some refineries you want to keep, some you don't. And so it was difficult, very difficult. In France we tried to shut down a refinery which was a negative, but it made economic sense. We were going to continue with the workers in other operations, but we couldn't move them. See, the mobility of workers in Europe wasn't, isn't like the mobility here in the U.S. If you have an operation and you say, look you can be more efficient, you can have your job, but you'll have your job over here. I know it disrupts your family, but, et cetera. But people, a lot of people will do that. But in Europe, they won't. And so we had union people bust into our offices in France and Paris armed with bats and threatening the general manager. So I got a call from the general manager, the president of Mobil France, and he says, "Arnie" (laughter), because they call me Arnie, "We got a problem here. The workers are rioting here, threatening and so on." So, I said, "You've got to call the police." (laughter). Cooler heads ended up prevailing, but you know, they took to the streets on that one. We ended up convincing enough workers to take the deal and things calmed down, but it was a trying time.$$What was the deal?$$The deal was that we had another refinery location and a refinery we thought was competitive that had the kind of hardware that I was telling you about. And we were going to expand that. We could move a bunch of those jobs up north. So they were down in this lovely area near the Mediterranean, charming restaurants, charming hillside, and we were going to move them up to Ravensheugh, north, and they didn't want any part of that. So, and then for those who didn't want to move at all, they agreed in negotiation with the union on a payout. But a bunch did take it, and moved up to Ravensheugh. There were those kinds of things in Europe.$$Alright. So you were there for--$$I think it's almost three and a half years, or four years, three years.$$Okay, so you arrived in '82' [1982], right?$$'82' [1982] and left in '85' [1985].$$'85' [1985], right.$$Yes three years, yes.$$So you became vice president of Mobil Global Marketing and Refining Planning in New York.$$Yes so that's Mobil's deal of, now you've finished an operating job, and now you go back to world headquarters and now back into planning, but now for broader knowledge and strategy for a major division. I had the corporate planning job, but this is a way now of getting more familiar with the marketing and refining. I had not been in marketing and refining. So, with that job--I mean, I was in marketing and refining, operating--now I'm getting marketing and refining, a broad overview.$$Okay, alright. So what are some of the highlights of that?$$That was, I'm trying to think of the, at that time, now we were, in terms of the particular operation, you know, it really was a continuation of this thought that I started in Europe where now I could apply it to Mobil's global marketing and refining, where you look to your refineries that are going to be your keepers, because you're going to invest heavily in them with this upgrading to make more valuable products, and less investment going into closure of the office for overall better efficiency. And we applied that worldwide. of course we operated-- marketing and refining, you know, we had Japan, we had, you name it. We were marketing and refining throughout the--well, Singapore, Australia. I didn't start it, but we started in Saudi Arabia with marketing and refining, mainly refining. So it was a continuation of the strategy that we started in Europe, but now applying it more broadly [unclear].

Shirley Malcom

Education administrator and science education advocate Shirley Malcom was born on September 6, 1946 in Birmingham, Alabama to ¬Lillie Mae and Ben Mahaley. From an early age, she wanted to be a doctor because of her love of biology. At George Washington Carver High School, Malcom was a top student and graduated in 1963. She then attended the University of Washington and received her B.S. degree in zoology in 1967. Malcom went on to attend the University of California at Los Angeles where she graduated with her M.A. degree in zoology in 1968. She taught high school biology in Los Angeles before attending Pennsylvania State University where she obtained her Ph.D. degree in ecology in 1974.

After completing her education, Malcom joined the faculty of the University of North Carolina at Wilmington as an assistant professor. In 1975, she moved to Washington, D.C. where she began working as a research assistant in the Office of Opportunities in Science (OOS) of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). She co-published “The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science” in 1976. Then, Malcom served as a program officer for the National Science Foundation’s (NSF) Science Education Directorate. She became head of the AAAS Office of Opportunities in Science in 1979 and head of the AAAS Directorate for Education and Human Resources Programs in 1989. In 1993, Malcom was appointed to the National Science Board by President Bill Clinton and in 1995, she became a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. She was also named to the President’s Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology from 1994 until 2001. Malcom has authored several reports on engaging women and minorities in science and is considered a pioneer in the field.

Malcom has served as co-chair of the Gender Advisory Board of the United Nations Commission on Science and Technology for Development and has chaired many national committees on scientific education and literacy. In 2006, she was named co-chair of the National Science Board Commission on 21st Century Education in STEM. Malcom serves as a trustee of California Institute of Technology and a regent of Morgan State University. She has sixteen honorary degrees, received the University of Washington’s Alumna Summa Laude Dignata Award in 1998, the university’s highest honor and in 2003, was given the Public Welfare Medal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS). Shirley Malcom is married to Horace Malcom and they have two adult daughters.

Shirley Malcom was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 9, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.060

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/8/2012

Last Name

Malcom

Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

M.

Schools

University of Washington

University of California, Los Angeles

Pennsylvania State University

George Washington Carver High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Shirley

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

MAL06

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France

Favorite Quote

What Doesn't Kill You, Makes You Stronger.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

9/6/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Education administrator and science educator Shirley Malcom (1946 - ) is head of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Directorate for Education and Human Resources Programs. She is a pioneer of minority science education serving on the National Science Board and the President’s Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology.

Employment

Los Angeles Schools

University of North Carolina, Wilmington

American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)

National Science Foundation (NSF)

National Science Board

President’s Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:17052,345:19488,384:37940,556:40550,598:43070,634:45950,667:46310,672:46760,678:56786,777:59555,829:60407,857:64250,873:64712,880:65559,895:66714,908:67253,916:71180,984:84415,1146:86740,1216:87190,1223:91990,1306:92815,1318:93790,1333:95815,1377:102198,1408:104466,1444:105390,1457:108834,1500:117234,1603:122022,1660:122862,1675:123450,1683:128786,1696:131048,1736:133076,1780:137210,1837:137834,1847:138614,1858:138926,1863:144721,1894:145568,1908:152040,1987:153600,2004:154224,2013:178950,2373:188249,2459:188785,2468:194568,2528:195279,2538:197412,2559:198044,2568:198913,2580:202942,2619:203574,2628:206260,2665:207366,2681:218635,2763:223290,2843:229650,2878:230175,2886:230850,2900:231450,2910:233775,2950:234150,2956:236025,2984:238800,3020:243300,3105:245850,3159:250050,3218:250800,3229:251100,3234:257170,3254:261331,3346:263229,3382:263667,3393:264689,3407:270894,3511:276305,3543:282028,3638:282804,3648:283677,3659:295300,3767:295932,3776:300988,3849:302963,3870:303990,3886:309204,3975:312759,4037:313154,4043:315524,4078:316156,4087:317025,4101:332854,4273:333565,4285:334750,4309:335066,4314:340966,4352:345544,4396:345989,4402:347947,4426:354622,4527:356580,4566:368184,4709:368658,4716:377706,4853:378066,4859:382386,4941:382674,4946:390432,5012:393958,5054:397740,5067:398760,5076:399780,5091:400205,5097:403990,5131:406100,5155$0,0:14512,157:18649,190:18965,210:22678,280:24258,298:24969,308:28445,375:28919,386:40192,519:40850,527:43012,558:44610,583:47430,622:67090,755:83698,1003:86050,1047:86722,1059:89662,1109:105236,1277:106628,1288:107585,1308:108281,1318:118275,1408:118660,1414:126976,1554:129363,1629:129748,1635:136310,1681:138920,1692:139892,1704:140459,1713:140783,1718:146534,1793:146939,1799:151070,1876:155760,1893:156296,1904:156765,1912:161857,2004:162527,2015:174674,2144:175089,2150:176002,2169:196608,2406:196940,2411:199264,2449:209196,2550:209916,2562:215028,2645:215604,2655:216540,2669:221360,2689:222480,2707:223040,2716:228000,2788:242784,2940:250854,3018:257956,3081:259573,3109:260266,3124:261575,3152:262191,3162:279294,3379:279606,3384:285144,3473:312514,3806:314257,3835:314838,3844:316664,3877:317079,3886:331865,4013:338707,4053:342894,4068:346988,4145:347344,4150:349836,4171:351438,4198:352150,4211:352595,4217:357395,4233:358105,4245:362152,4335:376850,4566:377106,4571:377490,4578:377938,4590:378898,4693:396491,4851:397415,4862:408560,4954:409980,4994:410548,5125:424852,5469:426246,5492:426574,5497:427394,5509:428542,5520:430264,5544:431248,5558:431740,5565:432150,5571:432642,5579:441663,5681:459466,5909:459868,5920:460471,5932:461342,5946:472230,6028
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Shirley Malcom's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her mother's growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her father's growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom talks about the demographics of Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Shirley Malcom describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about her childhood neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about her high school

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her elementary school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about her experience at Lewis Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about the significance of Sputnik to aspiring scientists

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom talks about her teachers at Lewis Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about her interest in television, radio and football

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Shirley Malcom talks about her grandmother registering to vote

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about voting challenges for black people during the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about the bombing of Bethel Baptist Church and Sixteenth Street Baptist Church

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom reflects on her experience of being a student during the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her decision to attend the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom talks about the civil rights disparities that women face

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about her experience at the University of Washington

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about the disparity of educational resources between minority schools and white schools

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about innate scientific ability

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about her decision to forego medical school

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her social life at the University of Washington

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about her experience at the University of California in Los Angeles

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her studies at the University of California in Los Angeles

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom reflects on the challenges in her personal life during her graduate studies

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about Pennsylvania State University, where she received her Ph.D. degree in ecology

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom describes her dissertation on the factors that relate to the termination of imprinting in birds

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about football at Pennsylvania State University

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities with the University of North Carolina at Wilmington and the NAACP

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about the book she published called, 'The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science'

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work at the National Science Foundation and the American Association for the Advancement of Science

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work with the American Association for the Advancement of Science

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities and the importance of STEM education

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work with the United Nations (part one)

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work with the United Nations (part two)

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about women's access to science education

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities with the AAAS

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about society's perceptions of scientists and celebrities

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom reflects upon her life choices

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about her family

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom reflects upon how she would like to be remembered

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Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities and the importance of STEM education
Shirley Malcom talks about the book she published called, 'The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science'
Transcript
Early 90s [1990s] you're saying--?$$Yes, it would be, it would have been kind of the early 90s [1990s]. And so we had a number of places apply and we had independent selection process and the people came here for training cause we wanted them all to do something that related to building math skills, whatever they happened to be. And then we basically sent them computers and they established community computing centers. We were trying some of everything. The notion is that we saw, we found holes we wanted to plug you know. We were trying to help communities, trying to build awareness to start with and then trying to build strategies so that you would get some sense that you weren't at, you know you weren't hanging out there by yourself. I mean there were things that you could do to try to move this. At the same time that you're trying all these projects, you're also trying to establish or support policies that you knew in the long run would likely provide federal resources or something for undertaking these efforts. You were protecting disaggregated data because you know if you lose it you're not going to be able to keep score and know how, know if you're making any kind of difference. So you're working on various fronts you know all at the same time, building, trying to build capacity in organizations, trying to build awareness in the scientific community, trying to get other organizations within the scientific community to take on some of these issues. So you have lots of different stuff going on at any one time. In 1989, there was a reorganization that pulled not only office of opportunities but also the general issues that relate to science education as well as public understanding of science into the same unit and I became the head of that unit. And again this was a situation where you are coming to understand that this is a system's problem and you've got to figure out how to take on different parts of a system be it K-12, be it higher education, be it graduate education, be it community engagement and community literacy that you've got to build partnerships, that you've got to reach out beyond yourself. You have to engage the media, the technology and what have you in order to make a difference. I had the opportunity too to kind of do more in the policy world and around the policy, and the policy area to effect things as well. I served on the National Science Board, the policymaking body of the National Science Foundation and participated in their efforts around strategic planning, around the systemic initiatives that they undertook. I instigated the activity that eventually led to the change in criteria at the foundation that--around broader impacts to try to get people to focus on the fact that it was great to be able to do your research but maybe we should be able to expect that you would do things to support education, do things to support diversity, do things to support other kinds of worthy efforts and initiatives within the sciences and engineering. And I served on President Clinton's counsel of advisors se science and technology at the same time and so trying to lift the discussion to the numerous agencies, trying to help people understand that this was an area of national need. We had once again returned to the Sputnik [1957] moment. It might not look like it but we were there again and that if we didn't really understand that the demographics were headed in one direction but we really weren't capitalizing on the need to build talent out of all those groups that had been marginalized in the past and we had a real problem. And so we were trying to change the discourse and tried to get the science community to own this problem at the same time that we could get the national policies to own all of this as an issue that had to be addressed. And I think that to a very large extent we look at, we look today and we listen to President Obama and his remarks, he's there. He gets that in fact that we--that stem education is critical to being able to move ahead in terms of our national security, our defense, our health, our economics but also that we have to be very smart about talent development and talent utilization. But you, when I think about kind of the odyssey that it has taken to kind of get to that point it's really amazing that we can still be having this conversation this many years later. You know I have these regular moments of deja vu all over again. I was you know I undertake on a--I can get an open slice of time every once in a while to start trying to attack the mess in my office and I'll find a speech that I gave in 1980 something and I read the presentation. I shouldn't, I should just go on and file it. But I read it and I thought oh my goodness this is too fresh. I could have given this speech last week. And I think that as much progress as we have made and the numbers tell us and we have in fact made progress, as much progress as we have made, the movement has been glacial. I mean it's so slow but we have just, we are just not taking hold of these things with the speed and urgency that is really required.$Okay. Now in '76 [1976] you wrote, you published 'The Double Bind'--$$The Double Bind.$$--The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science.$$Yes.$$Okay.$$And that was, it was interesting how that happened. The person with home, for whom I worked said at that time, what's it like basically to have these two things hitting you at the same time? She had gone to a meeting of people who were writing projects that related to minorities in science. There had been no women there. Then she went to a meeting on women in science projects and there had been no minorities there. And I said to her, I said what it is like is that you're in no person's land because if you--for example you go into a living room and you have a lamp that's there and there's a switch on the lamp and there's a switch on the wall. The switch on the lamp can be on but the wall switch isn't. The wall switch can be on but if the lamp switch isn't on the lamp still won't light. Essentially the light, the wall switch has to work and the lamp has to be on in order for anything to happen. I mean it's similarly that you know this notion of following slavery when the amendment was put in place giving blacks the right to vote, black women couldn't vote. You know so women were arguing at the time that women should, white women should be allowed to vote before these illiterate black men who had been slaves. But until both of those things happened, we weren't going to get the vote. So it didn't matter who you told, who you tossed your hat in with, nothing was going to happen for you until both of those things happened. And that's really the major issue that we began to understand as women of color that early on we might be more affected by the issues of being members of minority groups in terms of our early education. But at some point we were also going to be hit by sexism and the realization that there were certain things that women were expected to do and not do. And that we, until both of those sets of conditions were addressed that we weren't really going to be able to progress. And not having being able to put those ideas, to articulate those ideas and begin to understand what might a pathway be for women of color, I mean that was the first time that that had actually been discussed as an issue. And trying to help people understand what that was like was a really hard thing to do and it was a hard thing to do in terms of putting it to words. One young woman who wrote me at the time kind of--after she found 'The Double Bind', she was looking for something that spoke to her to the situation that she felt at the time. And I was trying to help her sort through it and make suggestions about what she should do as she was trying to map out her life, is now the Dean of the College at Harvard [University], Evelyn Hammonds. She was at Spelman [College] when she wrote to me after that book. And it means a lot that she felt that for the first time that someone understood, someone was articulating her reality. And unfortunately while a lot of things have changed from that reality, a lot of things haven't changed from that reality. There's a recent piece that I did with my daughter for Harvard Educational Review that kind of brings it, this up to date at the thirty-fifth anniversary you know of 'The Double Bind.' And we entitled it, 'The Double Bind-The Next Generation,' you know looking at how now younger women are experiencing some of the same issues that their mothers did and how, what is likely--what we now understand is likely to be necessary in order to really address these things.$$Now culturally, did you get more, I mean for those who were aware of what you wrote, did you get more pushback form the black community or the white community?$$Did we get pushback?$$No, from those who actually read what you wrote, did you get more pushback from the black community or the white community or did it make any difference?$$Okay, that's a hard one. We got probably more pushback from black males. White females didn't like it either because in a way when you're kind of in the middle of a women's movement the idea that you're going to call out that our separate needs aren't being addressed. And largely our separate needs weren't being addressed, partly our separate needs weren't being addressed because there was this in some corners kind of a condemnation of what, of the behavior of all men. And what we were trying to say is, hey wait a minute. Our brothers have issues, have had issues trying to move ahead as well. So even though they aren't necessarily being the most supportive people right now by saying we, you know we're calling out things that we need to keep in the family--I mean you think about it. You think about the civil rights movement and you think about the fact that the women in many cases were organizing things and they got pushed to the side. You don't hear about the women who were critical in the civil rights movement.$$Like Ella Baker [Ella Josephine Baker, African American civil rights and human rights activist].$$Yeah. You don't hear about Ella Baker. You don't hear about Diane--$$Nash [Diane Nash, student leader and strategist of the 1960s civil rights movement].$$You know, you don't hear about them. You may hear about Dorothy and I think that Dorothy Height [Dorothy Irene Height, administrator, educator, social activist: former head of National Council of Negro Women] who was a great supporter of our work because she understood this science/technology connection to really being able to take hold of one's future moving forward. I think that she, they gave her some props because she was senior to them all you know. And, but you know how that worked. It was, there was the expectation that you provided the coffee, you provided the support, you made the signs, you did whatever, but you were not out in front and that was a part of the reality. Did people like to be called on it? No. And I think that that's just the way it was.