The Nation’s Largest African American Video Oral History Collection Mobile search icon Mobile close search icon
Advanced Biography Search
Mobile navigation icon Close mobile navigation icon

Eleanor Jones

Mathematician and professor of mathematics, Eleanor Jones was born on August 10, 1929 in Norfolk, Virginia. Her mother, Lillian Vaughn Green, was a domestic worker, and her father, George Herbert Green, was a letter carrier. She attended Booker T. Washington High School where her favorite subject was mathematics. Jones graduated as valedictorian of her class at the age of fifteen and received a scholarship to attend Howard University. Jones received her B.S. degree in mathematics in 1949. She studied under Elbert Cox, the first African American to receive his Ph.D. degree in mathematics. Jones remained at Howard University where she received her M.S. degree in mathematics in 1950. Then, she returned to Booker T. Washington High School as a mathematics and science teacher for two years.

Jones was hired in 1955 as an associate professor of mathematics at Hampton University. When schools in Norfolk, Virginia were closed in 1958 due to forced integration, Jones helped tutor students in a local church. That same year, she also became vice chair of the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) in Virginia. By 1962, Jones left Hampton to study mathematics at Syracuse University under the tutelage of Dr. James Reid. In 1965, she was elected to the Sigma Xi science honor society and went on to graduate from Syracuse University in 1966 as the eleventh African American woman to earn her Ph.D. degree in mathematics. Her thesis, entitled, “Abelian Groups and Their Endomorphism Rings and the Quasi-Endomorphism of Torsion Free Abelian Groups,” examined advanced abstract algebraic concepts. In 1967, Jones rejoined the faculty at Hampton University. One year later, she became professor of mathematics and chair of the department at Norfolk State University.

Jones retired as professor emeritus from Norfolk University in 2003. She served on the Committee for Opportunities for Underrepresented Minorities of the American Mathematical Society, the Executive board of the Association for Women in Mathematics and the Board of Governors for the Mathematical Association of America. Jones also held the position of vice president of the National Association of Mathematicians. She raised three sons, Everett B. Jones, Edward A. Dawley and the late Herbert G. Dawley.

Eleanor Jones was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 7, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.024

Sex

Female

Interview Date

2/7/2012

Last Name

Jones

Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Green Dawley

Schools

Booker T. Washington High School

Syracuse University

Douglass Park Elementary School

Paul Laurence Dunbar High School

Howard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Eleanor

Birth City, State, Country

Norfolk

HM ID

JON26

Favorite Season

Spring

Sponsor

National Science Foundation

State

Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

All is well that ends well.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Virginia

Birth Date

8/10/1929

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Virginia Beach

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Fruit, Vegetables

Short Description

Math professor and mathematician Eleanor Jones (1929 - ) was the eleventh African American woman to receive her Ph.D. degree in mathematics and served as professor of mathematics at Norfolk State University for over thirty years.

Employment

Booker T. Washington High School

Hampton University

Norfolk State University

ECPI College of Technology

Hampton Institute

Syracuse University

Main Sponsor
Main Sponsor URL
Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
0,0:4356,70:20894,299:21362,304:21674,309:24716,352:34090,450:51692,655:65536,783:70599,842:71844,872:75247,919:77820,931:91600,1117:101716,1216:102111,1222:103533,1252:117150,1441:118050,1461:119700,1470$0,0:12376,97:14725,134:15373,143:15940,151:16750,162:17317,171:18127,186:23480,254:59966,572:60426,586:85808,886:96873,1025:97197,1030:98007,1043:98331,1048:99400,1055:101710,1092:103250,1118:116130,1278:125832,1475:128652,1528:148546,1728:149701,1754:160856,1896:170775,2019:172725,2051:173025,2056:175125,2096:177300,2136:192256,2282:207525,2495:208045,2510:208305,2552:217252,2605:217608,2610:218231,2621:226202,2674:226530,2679:227432,2693:228334,2707:229728,2731:230630,2743:231532,2755:232270,2766:235714,2811:236780,2826:240374,2847:240902,2861:241628,2873:242486,2888:249004,3011:255884,3105:256898,3121:273280,3242:273940,3258:274468,3267:275260,3280:288537,3435:289880,3458:297935,3577:307265,3668:307565,3673:330725,3957:331250,3965:332225,3975:333575,3992:338838,4039:339786,4056:344684,4147:370560,4338:383886,4468:401724,4715:412089,4768:421291,4909:533823,5916:544014,5988:560970,6137
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Eleanor Jones' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Eleanor Jones lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Eleanor Jones describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Eleanor Jones describes her mother's background - part one

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Eleanor Jones describes her mother's background - part two

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Eleanor Jones describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Eleanor Jones talks about her father's service in the U.S. Navy

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Eleanor Jones talks about her grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Eleanor Jones describes her father's background

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Eleanor Jones describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Eleanor Jones describes Norfolk, Virginia as she grew up

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Eleanor Jones talks about her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Eleanor Jones describes her family

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Eleanor Jones describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Eleanor Jones describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Eleanor Jones talks about her interests as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Eleanor Jones talks about Douglas Park Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Eleanor Jones describes her early education

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Eleanor Jones talks about her experience at Booker T. Washington High School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Eleanor Jones describes her social activities at Booker T. Washington High School

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Eleanor Jones talks about her decision to attend Howard University

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Eleanor Jones talks about pledging Delta Sigma Theta Sorority

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Eleanor Jones talks about the mystery surrounding her maternal grandfather

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Eleanor Jones describes the faculty at Howard University

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Eleanor Jones talks about prominent people who spoke at Howard University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Eleanor Jones talks about Dr. Mordecai Johnson

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Eleanor Jones talks about her fellowship and her work with the census bureau

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Eleanor Jones talks about William S. Claytor and Jeremiah Certaine

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Eleanor Jones talks about her marriage to Edward Dawley, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Eleanor Jones talks about the Norfolk 17

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Eleanor Jones talks about Rosa Parks

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Eleanor Jones discusses her involvement with the Congress of Civil Rights (CORE)

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Eleanor Jones describes her divorce from Edward Dawley

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Eleanor Jones describes her experience at Syracuse University

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Eleanor Jones describes her doctoral research

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Eleanor Jones talks about sports and her experience at Syracuse University

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Eleanor Jones discusses her experience teaching math

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Eleanor Jones describes her publication in American Mathematical Monthly

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Eleanor Jones talks about the National Association of Mathematicians (NAM)

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Eleanor Jones describes her efforts to attract female students to math and science

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Eleanor Jones talks about her retirement

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Eleanor Jones talks about her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Eleanor Jones shares her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Eleanor Jones reflects upon her career

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Eleanor Jones talks about her divorce from Everett Jones

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Eleanor Jones talks about her children

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Eleanor Jones talks about her hobbies

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Eleanor Jones talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Eleanor Jones describes her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$5

DAStory

1$6

DATitle
Eleanor Jones describes her doctoral research
Eleanor Jones describes her efforts to attract female students to math and science
Transcript
All right. Now I was trying to get you to explain the nature of your dissertation. Now you--$$Well, okay. Well I was going to say that--well it starts off in the first one saying all the groups considered (unclear) abelian. Now what do we mean by abelian? That's one, that's a concept that you know some operations in arithmetic are abelian. For example, if you multiply, if--well abstractive, you say if AB is equal to BA, in other words what operations? If you multiply 2 x 3, you get the same thing if you multiply 3 x 2, that's in abelian operation. Addition is one. But on the other hand, subtraction is not in abelian operation because for example, if you take, if you have $3.00 and spend $2.00, you're left with $1.00. But on the other hand, if you have $2.00, and spend $3.00, you're in the hole. So that's not in abelian operation. But it so happens that the groups that I always deal with in the operations, that is involved, they are abelian which you can go both ways and get the same result when you do that.$$Okay. So that's what your dissertation was about?$$Um-hmm, dealing with abelian groups and elements and that.$$Okay. All right, so when you finished your Ph.D., now were you the first black woman to get a Ph.D. in mathematics in Syracuse?$$Yes, so they say.$$Okay.$$Um-hmm.$$All right. So I guess we have to believe it.$$That's why they, yeah they put a picture in the paper saying I paved the way for those who have come after me.$So you became the state, you were the state representative for it and it says here in '76 [1976] also you were the co-director of the National Science Foundation Women in Science Career Workshop Grant.$$Um-hmm.$$Now what was that about?$$All right. Now schools, now sometimes schools are interested in building up departments and getting students. Now I found a very useful way was to bring students from high school on your campus and show them some of the things. And I tried to get some of the students to want to come there. But now to have those--what I did, the first person, woman to get a Ph.D. in mathematics was by the name of Sonia Kovalevsky [Kovalevskaya], where--she was in Russia. But right now, so we could--so the people who would grant the money for you to have a Sonia Kovalevsky day would--dealt with other institutions. So now that was one reason too we find that you get to meet them and if you were on committees with them and they respect you and you apply for money, they give you money. Well that helps you at your school when you have finance, you bring 300 people on from the buses, from the--on the campus and you're able to feed them and have the bus pick them up but you have gotten the money--but they have given you enough what we call a grant. Now while I was at Norfolk State, I had six of them right, from--they hadn't had anyone--see, now that's something too they don't notice. People who are active in the field will do things that the others don't do. It's more to it than just teaching your classes. I would write for the grants, I would get the money. I never had anyone saying we don't have money for you. And they gave me (unclear). So we have them, they come up on the campus. And then some of them, I'm not going to say they were the brightest one necessarily, but some of the students you--they all women, would decide to come to the school and all. And then you get some of them and talk to them, some of the others who live nearby maybe in the (unclear) section of Norfolk or something like that could commute there and they think they could be quite happy there. So we start to getting students from other schools and all that can go there. They were very useful tool for recruiting. We say we want to gain their interest in mathematics, but really it's aimed at recruiting. And I think the school at which we worked, they reward you even though the student may not come in your field. But if you bring in a lot of students from a certain high school and they go, they come to the school and pay their fees, I don't think it, I think they still will credit you with being a good person.$$Okay. Now you were also, now you served on the committee for improving mathematics remediation efforts in college of the, Committee of the Mathematics Association of America. You were a member of the Mathematics Association of America as well?$$Board of Governors.$$Board of Governors.$$Uh-huh, yeah uh-huh.$$Okay.$$Yeah, Virginia--I represented the State of Virginia there.$$Okay.$$They picked them.$$So did--now did you get--when did you get involved in the Association for Women in Mathematics?$$Right after I got my Ph.D. there and during there, um-hmm.$$Okay. And is that an offshoot of the American Mathematical Society or is it--?$$Not really, no. It's not really but what it is, you belong to all of those. Now the American Mathematical Society, remember in grad school the departments sponsored all of us in the society, paid our dues for us and we invited them to join. But I think it's very important that you belong to them. You can serve your school better if you have contacts outside of your school. Now, like now if a state did not have, do graduate work in mathematics, but if you got contacts there you can use sometime and you really have a good, have a student that won't embarrass you, you can get funds for them to attend there.$$Okay. Now in '91 [1991] you wrote an article called 'A Minority Woman's Viewpoint and Winning Women into Mathematics,' published by the Mathematics Association of America, right?$$Yes.$$So what was the gist of that basically?$$Well I talk--one reason why they--now see, I was just trying to see what the focus of that article really was. Well I said on why people go into mathematics and all. But I mention the fact that too, most of the students that I got though were male and then of course I mentioned that, the fellow Charlie Yates, which I said something about earlier to you there. He was one of my favorite students when high--when I was a high school teacher there. And I do think that's one thing too, a lot of people do not encourage people to go in mathematics. I find minority people don't. Now, and I don't know about the other group if not--they encourage them or not. Which I think of course now I can see the reason why though because you figure if you would spend that much time in school you supposed to go to medical school. You're not supposed--I mean really they figure. But sometimes if mathematics is somehow better. I think being happy and enjoying what you are doing although you might not can pay as much for your car or your suit that the person did there, but you enjoy doing what you're doing and driving a lesser car to do that job can be just as rewarding in certain respects because you spend so many hours a day working. And if you're not--and if it's drudgery, you have to spend much more time to amuse yourself when you're not working and all. So that's what I think if you let people see the joy of doing mathematics, some of them will decide to make it a lifetime thing. And then too if there are some of them now that say a man like Blackwell, he will probably get income very close to what a lousy doctor's position might get. See, when people and schools have him come speak, well they give him I don't know what kind of fees that they are, what kind of fees they give people. I was at the stage, I never got to that fee stage. They give me a plaque when I go [laughter] speak to them now. But some of the people you know well they get nice fees I understand.

John Lassiter

Insurance executive and financial planner John Lassiter was born April 18, 1937, in Chicago, Illinois. Lassiter admired community businessmen and as a child wanted to be an actuary. Attending Betsy Ross Elementary School and graduating from Parker High School in 1954, Lassiter earned a B.S. degree in statistical economics from University of Illinois in 1959. He then went on to earn his CLU and ChFC degrees from American College in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, in 1963 and 1969, respectively.

From 1959 to 1961, Lassiter worked as a statistician for the United States Department of Labor, and then served as a claims authorizer for the Social Security Administration from 1961 to 1963. Assisted by Benny Ross, Lassiter was one of the first African American executives hired by Prudential Insurance Company. In 1964 and 1965, Lassiter sold in excess of one million dollars of life insurance, and in 1968, he won the coveted Prudential President’s Trophy for supervising the best sales force in the nation.

During the 1960s, Lassiter became active in CORE, the NAACP, Urban League, Operation Breadbasket and PUSH. He helped deliver tents and supplies to besieged civil rights workers in the South.

In 1984 Lassiter retired from Prudential and founded Lassiter Enterprises. He has obtained general agency contracts from most major insurance agencies including Prudential, Kemper, Travelers, and Guardian. Supported by certified public accountants, investment counselors, real estate advisors, attorneys, and risk managers, Lassiter marketed his financial services. On the boards of Trinity Hospital and Chicago Youth Centers, he also served on the presidential advisory committee of Chicago State University.

Mr. Lassiter died of prostate cancer on August 26, 2005; he was 68 years old. He leaves behind his wife, Rosielyn Lassiter.

Accession Number

A2004.003

Sex

Male

Interview Date

1/20/2004 |and| 2/11/2004

Last Name

Lassiter

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Schools

Betsy Ross Elementary School

Paul Robeson High School

University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign

First Name

John

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

LAS02

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

You Can Achieve Anything You Want That You Can Conceive Of And Work Honestly For.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Interview Description
Birth Date

4/18/1937

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Chocolate

Death Date

8/26/2005

Short Description

Financial counselor and insurance executive John Lassiter (1937 - 2005 ) was the CEO of Lassiter Enterprises.

Employment

United States Department of Labor

United States Social Security Administration

Prudential Insurance Company

Lassiter Enterprises, Inc.

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:1628,26:3034,146:3774,232:4292,242:4958,252:5254,317:19346,522:23746,620:29906,781:30346,787:36762,911:43484,1066:44142,1072:44518,1077:51926,1202:52991,1243:58356,1407:63684,1502:63972,1507:65412,1548:66060,1570:69444,1650:87531,1972:89841,1999:110990,2206:124252,2346:128766,2509:129432,2520:132903,2553:141720,2641$0,0:247,8:721,15:1195,22:1511,31:4118,87:11655,233:12366,243:15302,280:15848,309:34430,524:34666,584:40585,696:41620,723:43966,797:51654,933:52158,942:58030,1047:59130,1058:60010,1069:63788,1098:71232,1219:72420,1267:81929,1432:113026,1879:117667,1926:132070,2154:132490,2184:132770,2189:153778,2513:156210,2524:156422,2529:156952,2553:166384,2638:166965,2687:181425,2866:184530,2956:185335,2965:189996,3000:202070,3298:241384,3973:241902,3987:247573,4063:250893,4135:256100,4162:257205,4178:257545,4183:263460,4328:267330,4400:268448,4421:268792,4426:269394,4434:271200,4481:280940,4652
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of John Lassiter's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - John Lassiter lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - John Lassiter describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - John Lassiter describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - John Lassiter describes his extended family on his father's side

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - John Lassiter describes his ancestors' encounters with the Ku Klux Klan during the 1890s

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - John Lassiter describes his father's work history in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - John Lassiter talks about seeing celebrities and successful people through his father

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - John Lassiter describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - John Lassiter describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - John Lassiter talks about his personality during his childhood in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - John Lassiter describes his experiences at Betsy Ross Elementary School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - John Lassiter talks about working as a paperboy during his childhood in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - John Lassiter describes his studies at Parker High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - John Lassiter talks about playing sports at Parker High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - John Lassiter talks about his influences at Parker High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - John Lassiter describes race relations at Parker High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - John Lassiter describes his experiences at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - John Lassiter talks about his first jobs working as a government statistician

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - John Lassiter describes how he found a new job through his brothers at Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - John Lassiter talks about his activities in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - John Lassiter talks about his involvement with Toastmasters International

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - John Lassiter describes his tenure at Prudential Insurance Company

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - John Lassiter describes competitions for sales awards at Prudential Insurance Company

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - John Lassiter talks about training members of the Freedom Riders movement

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - John Lassiter talks about working with the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and HistoryMaker Jesse L. Jackson

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - John Lassiter talks about his transition to providing services for major corporations

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - John Lassiter talks about his work as a consultant providing executive benefits

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - John Lassiter considers what he would have done differently in his career

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - John Lassiter talks about a transformational meeting from his tenure at the Prudential Insurance Company

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - John Lassiter describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - John Lassiter reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - John Lassiter talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - John Lassiter narrates his photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - John Lassiter narrates his photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$3

DAStory

1$6

DATitle
John Lassiter talks about his involvement with Toastmasters International
John Lassiter talks about his transition to providing services for major corporations
Transcript
Now, you were a member of CORE [Congress on Racial Equality], Urban League, NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] in college [at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Champaign, Illinois], and later on, Operation PUSH [People United to Save Humanity].$$Absolutely. Right.$$So, some people would only be a member of one or the other.$$No. No, we felt the movement needed every interest--whatever could happen, needed to happen, and everybody would do something. I gave a speech one time in Toastmasters [International], when I first got in college. We had a Toastmasters club in Washington Park Y [YMCA, Young Men's Christian Association] on 51st--50th and Indiana [Avenue]. One of the best Toastmasters clubs in the entire world. It was three thousand clubs in the world at that time. And, our Club 341 was world renowned. Because we had--every year there'd be one speaker, or it would be the top five speakers selected internationally out of three thousand clubs. In my--I was in that club for four years and three of those four years we had somebody in the top five; internationally speaking. One year was [HM] Manford Byrd [Jr.]. One year it was Bob Johnson [Robert E. Johnson], head of Jet magazine, the late Bob Johnson. One year it was Ted Swain [Theodore M. Swain], a white guy who was a federal, became a judge, a federal judge. He was a lawyer at that time. And, we were just outstanding, known throughout the world as--Club 341 Chicago was just outstanding. Well, I gave one speech in that four year period that got me the pencil that night. You get an award for being the best speaker that night. Five speakers per night, okay. Toastmasters--the first hour you do tabletop, 'cause everybody speaks, guest and members alike. The second hour, we have five prepared speakers, and you have five critiques, and then chief evaluators, and then you have a vote. They voted me the top speaker one night. Guess what my topic was.$$What's that?$$"Do something." Do something. Don't let this period pass you by and not contribute to this movement. If you can't march, then write letters. If you can't picket then get on the telephone, man the telephone bank. "Do something." Do something. And, I gave a whole bunch of examples of what they could do. My cousin Ed, who fought the people down in Ku Klux Klan [KKK], I gave all kind of examples. And, I got the award that night for the first time, the only time I got the award. And, that "Do something" consciousness kinda guided me in what I was doing professionally and civically. And so, you need to always do something.$How did things change from the late '60s [1960s] through the mid-'80s [1980s] when you started your company [Lassiter Enterprises]? How did, you know.$$The biggest thing that happened, I think, as the transition occurred, is as the different companies, for example, Independence Bank [Chicago, Illinois] was born in that period. They sold out to white folks. John, John--[HM] George Johnson started an Afro--not Afro Sheen, it was called--$$Johnson Products [Company].$$Johnson Products. He sold out to white folks. So that other folks--so, I said, well, you know, it's not--and they, by the way, and they've done very well. I mean, the revenue they got from those sales is very profound. Because the purpose of any business is to grow it and then sell it. I mean, that's the purpose of a business. Sell it or pass it to the next generation. But, above all capitalize on it and get the money out of it. Which is happening more and more every day. I said, "Well, now that makes sense to me. Let me do some of that too." So, I started partnering with white firms downtown. Work on the national scene. I would never have thought about that back in the '60s [1960s]; would never have crossed my mind. But, when I need a backroom to do what I'm not gonna build up a staff to do, for example, African Healthcare got 25,000 employees. They got 4,000 physicians. And, they got over $3 billion of revenue coming in, and I have access to them. So, I need somebody to help see those people for me. I'm not gonna hire no 200 people to go see those people for me. I'll hire me an enrollment company.$$Okay. The people that you're insuring so they could get their physical--$$Naw, naw, just a minute, just a minute.$$Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.$$To insure each part of those persons individually is my goal. I'm not gonna see them myself.$$Oh--$$I'm gonna hire an enrollment company to see them for me. And, there are no black enrollment companies. It's only white enrollment companies. So, I'll hire me a white enrollment company to see them for me, and split the business with them. That's what you call worksite marketing. So, I got involved with that. Similarly, that's what happened in the '80s [1980s]. Similarly in the '90s [1990s], I hired a company called Clark Consulting, which is Clark--formerly Clark Bardes. And, they now do consulting for the--they have been doing consulting for only the top tier companies in the world, the major companies. And, now I got half a dozen cases pending right now, with them doing the backroom work for me, for the executive of these major companies. And, anyone of these cases that pop, would be more money than, than all the years I've worked in this business. You get Dow Chemical to pop, for example, you got 300 executives at Dow Chemical buying $10 million apiece of insurance, that's a lifetime of work. Well, these guys, because I belong to Boule [Sigma Pi Phi] now. Boule has a whole bunch of black people who are running these companies. A guy in charge of American Express [Company]. A guy in charge of Merrill Lynch [Wealth Management]. A guy in charge of TIAA-CREF, I mean, these are black (unclear). These are my fraternity brothers who love to see me get some business that I've earned the right to, by bringing the right possible solution for their problems. And, so they need deferred compensation, they need executive benefits, they need things done for them. And so, I got my boys working for me to help this happen on a joint venture basis, so. But, I could take full advantage of the whole marketplace as opposed to the neighborhood, as opposed to the kitchen table, as opposed to the Chatham Park Village [Cooperative Apartments, Chicago, Illinois], as opposed to (unclear)--and, things are happening, things have happened and are happening. I can probably say this officially now because it is pretty much to bed now. We got R.R. Donnelley and Sons. And, they've, for example, just bought a company in Canada to almost double their size. And, they have factories in China. So, the execs all over the world now, sixty different countries will be our clients. And, other companies like that, we're working on.$$That's big.$$Oh, yeah. That's huge. That's huge.$$(Laughter).$$When I think of my friend [HM James D.] Montgomery who spent forty years of his life working as one of the best lawyers in the world; who hooked up with Johnnie Cochran and a whole bunch of other guys in the national firms. And, now they're doing in one year what he did in forty years. I understand what that means, you see (laughter). Our motivations similar, okay, you see.