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Lucy R. Wilson

Educational Administrator Lucy Wilson was born on September 23, 1930 in Hartsville, South Carolina. She received her B.S. degree cum laude from South Carolina State College in Orangeburg in 1951 and her M.S. degree in guidance and counseling from Indiana University in Bloomington in 1954. After completing her M.S. degree, Wilson served as the dean of women at Albany State College in Georgia from 1954 to 1956. While serving as a dean of students, her continuing studies were funded by the Danforth Foundation. Consequently, she received her Ed.D. degree in guidance and counseling in 1960.

She then returned to Orangeburg, South Carolina where she worked as the dean of students at Claflin College from 1956 through 1962. After completing her doctorate, Wilson was hired as the assistant program director for guidance services in the Department of Education and Testing Services at Princeton University from 1962 through 1967. In addition, Wilson was a professor of psychology at Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana from 1964 through 1967. She then became the Director of Adult Services at the Tennessee Mental Health Department in Nashville, Tennessee until 1975. Since then, Wilson has served as the Associate Dean for the Darden School of Education at Old Dominion University. Over the years, Wilson has worked as a consultant for Princeton University, the Department of Health, Education, & Welfare and the Portsmouth Public School System in Virginia.

Wilson also serves on a number of community boards and has long been involved in service organizations. From 1975 to 1977, Wilson served as an Area Director for the National March of Dimes. She also served as the Chairperson for the Human Sexuality Task Force and sits on the board of directors for the Planning Council of Tidewater (Virginia).

Wilson is married to former Norfolk State University president Harrison Wilson and they have six children: April, Jennifer, Richard, John, Harrison, and Benjamin.

Lucy Wilson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 11, 2010.

Accession Number

A2010.013

Sex

Female

Interview Date

5/11/2010

Last Name

Wilson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

R.

Schools

Butler High School

Butler Elementary School

South Carolina State University

Indiana University

First Name

Lucy

Birth City, State, Country

Hartsville

HM ID

WIL52

Favorite Season

None

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

If You Can Keep Your Head When All About You Are Losing Theirs And Blaming It On You, If You Can Trust Yourself When All Men Doubt You, But Make Allowance For Their Doubting Too. - Rudyard Kipling

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Virginia

Birth Date

9/23/1930

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chesapeake

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Academic administrator Lucy R. Wilson (1930 - ) served as a dean at Albany State College, Claflin College and Old Dominion University. She was also a professor of psychology at various universities including Tennessee State University and the University of Tennessee at Nashville.

Employment

South Carolina State University

Veteran's Administration

Albany State University

Claflin University

Lincoln High School

Southern University and A&M College System

Tennessee Mental Health Department

Tennessee State University

University of Tennessee

Norfolk State University

Old Dominion University

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Lucy R. Wilson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her maternal aunts and uncles

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls the difficulties of her mother's work

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers giving speeches to her mother's employer

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her mother as an abuse survivor

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her parents' relationship

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Lucy R. Wilson describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Lucy R. Wilson describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about Eartha Kitt

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls giving speeches as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her older half-brother

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls fighting in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her early education

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls her decision to attend Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls enrolling at Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers her high school graduation

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her first impressions of Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her early interest in theater

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls graduating from Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her experiences at Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls visiting her father in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers working in New York City during college

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her post-graduate work activities

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her first husband

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her doctoral dissertation

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls her decision to attend Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers returning to Claflin University in Orangeburg, South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls applying to work at Princeton University in Princeton, New Jersey

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her etiquette lessons in college

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her experiences working at Princeton University

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers meeting her second husband, Harrison B. Wilson

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls facing work discrimination

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers being hired at Southern University and Agricultural and Mechanical College in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson describes the beginning of her relationship with Harrison B. Wilson

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about meeting her stepsons for the first time

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls her move to Tennessee

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her work in Tennessee

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls her decision to move to Norfolk, Virginia

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her experiences at Norfolk State College in Norfolk, Virginia

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about the resentment towards her husband's presidency at Norfolk State College

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls becoming the first African American faculty member at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her later years at Old Dominion University

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Lucy R. Wilson recalls her greatest accomplishments at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson remembers her duties on various boards

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her protest against busing in Virginia, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her protest against busing in Virginia, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson describes the reaction in the African American community to her stance on busing

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about the disparities in funding for Virginia public schools

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Lucy R. Wilson describes The Links, Incorporated president, Barbara Dixon Simpkins

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about the Links to Success Programs

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Lucy R. Wilson describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Lucy R. Wilson reflects upon her life

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Lucy R. Wilson reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her family, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Lucy R. Wilson talks about her family, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Lucy R. Wilson describes the joys of her marriage

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Lucy R. Wilson describes how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

4$2

DATitle
Lucy R. Wilson describes her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement, pt. 1
Lucy R. Wilson remembers being hired at Southern University and Agricultural and Mechanical College in Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Transcript
Was the Civil Rights Movement boiling up in South Carolina at--?$$Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. And because I was at a private school [Claflin University, Orangeburg, South Carolina], then I could participate in the Civil Rights Movement.$$Now explain the dynamic of that, so that people understand it.$$Okay. People who worked at the state could and would be fired if they participated in the Civil Rights Movement. But since I was working at a private school, I could participate without fear. One of the things that I did, we decided, we, meaning those of us who either were not working or did not fear being fired--being hurt or fired, I should say, by the, by our employers--decided that we were going to integrate the federal health service center, which was located in downtown Orangeburg [South Carolina]. Now, here is a federally funded program that had one side for whites and another room for African Americans, or colored. So, my group and I decided that we were going to integrate that place. And I was chosen as the one to go in and ask for service. So I went in, and I asked for something that I knew they did not offer, like a flu shot or something. And they said, "Well, we don't offer that here." So, I said, "All right, well, I'll just wait, because my ride is to pick me up in about an hour." So (laughter) then I went and sat in the white sitting room. And the lady said, "Oh, you're to sit over here in the colored waiting room." And I said, "Oh, I'm very comfortable here," and I sat. And so I could hear them whispering among themselves, the nurses, whispering among themselves. And then a doctor came in, and very nicely said, "Would you mind sitting over here? This is the place that we have especially for you." And I said, "No, I'm comfortable here. But thank you very much." And then the police came in. I'm sure I'm going to get arrested, because that's what I'm there for, so that we would have a case. Well, the police came in, policeman came, just one. He came in and talked with the nurses and the doctor, and looked at me. And I'm waiting for him to come and arrest me. He just went out. So, I'm sitting there wondering, well, what is going to happen? Because I thought maybe he thought that he needed another person, you know. He never came back. I sat for an hour or more. And when nothing happened and they went on back to work, you know, doing whatever they were doing, I just got up and, you know, hailed my ride to come on, and we went back. The next month, we read in the paper that the federal health department was now integrated. So, they didn't do anything to me, but they did integrate.$I can't remember the name of the place, never been there before or since. But anyway, he didn't hire me. And when I got home I said, "Well, I'm just going to ask him." And I called him and I said, "Dr.," whatever his name was, "I'm not going to even think about suing you, because I don't have the money to do it. But I need, just for my own satisfaction, I need to know whether or not you refused to hire me because I am black, or because there was something wrong with the way I looked, or what?" And he said, "Well, I'll be very honest with you, Dr. Cutliff [HistoryMaker Lucy R. Wilson]," was my name, "it's because you are half an American." He said, "If I were to hire you, I would lose half of my clientele within a week." And I said, "Well, I understand that, I understand that." And I began looking for a job in the dime store; I was going to be a clerk. And suddenly the phone rang out of nowhere, and it was Ed Johnson [Edward E. Johnson] who was head of the psychology department at Southern University [Southern University and Agricultural and Mechanical College, Baton Rouge, Louisiana]. And he said, "We got your number from your husband." He didn't know I was out there to get a divorce. I said, "Yes?" And he said, "We have an opening at Southern University for a professor," not--either a professor or an associate professor of psychology. I've forgotten which. And he said, "Would you be interested?" Well, I didn't want him to know how hard up I was for a job. So I told him that there was another firm that wanted to interview--that I was interviewing with. And I said, "They want me to consider working for them within the next month. So if Southern wants me, then I will have to come right away. Otherwise, I'll be obligated to this other guy." Well, that was not true. I simply wanted them to move the date back when they would hire me, because I was out of money; I was running out of money. So he said, "Well, I'll check with the dean and I'll call you back." And he did, within the hour. And the dean, he said that the dean told him that it was fine for me to come right away, and I did. And that's how I got to Southern. And of course, I had nowhere to live, so I lived with Ed and his family. Jennifer [Wilson's daughter, Jennifer Wilson] and I took a room with Ed and his family for about three weeks until I could earn a check. Well, no, they paid me upfront, they paid me upfront. And so, I stayed there until '67 [1967].

Amyre Ann Makupson

Detroit television news anchor, Amyre Ann Porter Makupson was born on September 30, 1947 in River Rouge, Michigan to Dr. Rudolph Hannibal and Amyre Ann Porche Porter. She attended Visitation Catholic Elementary School in Detroit, Michigan and graduated from St. Mary’s Academy High School in Monroe, Michigan in 1965. She earned her B.A. degree in dramatics and speech from Fisk University in 1970 and her M.A. degree in speech arts/communications theory from American University in 1972.

Makupson held positions at WSM-TV in Nashville and WRC-TV in Washington, D.C. before returning to Detroit, Michigan in 1975 to work as director of public relations for Head Start, the Michigan Health Maintenance Organization. That same year, Makupson was hired by WGPR-TV, the nation’s first African American-owned television station, as a news anchor for “Big City News” and the Detroit focused talk show “Porterhouse.” In 1977, Makupson joined WKBD-TV as a news anchor and public affairs director. At WKBD-TV, she hosted “Morning Break,” the station’s daily talk show, and produced and anchored a five-minute newsbreak. In 1985, Makupson co-anchored WKBD’s “Ten O’clock News” and anchored “Eyewitness News at 11” on WKBD’s sister station, WWJ-TV.

Makupson has won six local Emmy awards including Best News Anchor, Best Interview/Discussion Program, and three for Best Commentary. In 1992 and 1995, Makupson won the Oakland County Bar Association Media Award for the show “Straight Talk” and named SCLC’s Media Person of the Year in 1995. She was also named the March of Dimes’ Humanitarian of the Year in 1996 and Makupson was inducted into the Silver Circle of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences in 2003. An author, Makupson published “So...What’s Next?” in 2004. Makupson serves on the boards of The Alzheimer’s Foundation, the Sickle Cell Association, the Skillman Foundation, Covenant House, the Providence Hospital Fund, and the March of Dimes. Makupson lives outside of Detroit, Michigan with her husband, Walter, with whom she has two children.

Amyre Ann Makupson was interviewed by The HistoryMakerson April 5, 2005.

Accession Number

A2005.097

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/5/2005

Last Name

Makupson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Ann

Occupation
Schools

Visitation Catholic Elementary School

St. Mary’s Academy

Fisk University

American University

Search Occupation Category
Speakers Bureau

Yes

First Name

Amyre

Birth City, State, Country

River Rouge

HM ID

MAK01

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

Yes

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Michigan

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

Aw, Man.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Michigan

Birth Date

9/30/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Detroit

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pizza

Short Description

Television anchor Amyre Ann Makupson (1947 - ) was hired as an anchor by WGPR-TV, the nation’s first African American-owned television station. She has also hosted "Morning Break," was co-anchor of WKBD’s "Ten O’Clock News," and is the winner of five local Emmy awards.

Employment

WSM TV

WRC TV

WGPR TV

Head Start Program

WKBD TV

Favorite Color

Navy Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Amyre Ann Makupson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Amyre Ann Makupson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls her maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Amyre Ann Makupson remembers her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her father

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her father's medical school years and medical career

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her household and remembers the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood in Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes her childhood personality and love for Motown

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her Catholic faith

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls her grade school years and going to lunch with a nun who taught her in the second grade

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about attending St. Mary Academy in Monroe, Michigan

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about the Civil Rights Movement and attending high school at St. Mary Academy in Monroe, Michigan

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls her career interests as a youth and lists where she attended college

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls her brother's death and her time at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her mentor at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about earning her M.A. degree from American University in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes her career trajectory in Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes how she behaved as an anchor

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about working for WKBD under five separate ownerships, earning six Emmys and her public speaking

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Amyre Ann Makupson remembers interviewing families during telethons

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about how her racial ambiguity has impacted her life and career

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls memorable news stories she has covered over the years

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about advancements in women's roles in the media

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Amyre Ann Makupson narrates her photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her civic engagement in Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes the most exciting days of her career

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes her endeavors after ending twenty-five years of news at WKBD in Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes her book 'So What's Next' and explains what motivated her to write it

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Amyre Ann Makupson reflects on the decline of Detroit, Michigan and her hopes for the city

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Amyre Ann Makupson reflects upon her life

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about working with Detroit Repertory Theatre

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Amyre Ann Makupson reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her family

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Amyre Ann Makupson describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Amyre Ann Makupson recalls working on a PSA with Isiah Thomas

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Amyre Ann Makupson narrates her photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$2

DAStory

4$6

DATitle
Amyre Ann Makupson talks about her mentor at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee
Amyre Ann Makupson describes her career trajectory in Detroit, Michigan
Transcript
Okay, were there any teachers that were like mentors or, or role models at Fisk [University, Nashville, Tennessee]?$$I had a teacher and her name is Dr. Gladys Ford, from Houston, Texas, she was the head of the speech and drama department which I--was my major. I am to this very day, thirty-five years later, I'm still very friendly with Dr. Ford, she still lives in Houston, Texas, I visit her often, well not often but I do visit her and she has come up to visit us and she was my drama teacher, she's the first person I sent a copy of my book to for her to review because I, I knew she would tell me the truth about what she thought about it. And, and the way we got friendly was kind of interesting because I used to debate a lot and of course she was involved in that but I just, it, it--shortly after I got there, one day I just was horribly depressed and just thinking about my brother [Rudolph Porter, III] who had died maybe, I don't know, two months earlier or three months earlier and I was kinda walking down the hall of one of these buildings where she was teaching and she says wh--what's, what's the matter? Come on in here. And I started talking to her and just, you know, you never know what kind of reaction and action she's going to have and the fact that she saw me, the fact that she asked me to come in her office, the fact that she sat there and listened as I cried and talked, just, I mean it was like somebody had given me fifteen winning lottery tickets, it just meant so much to me and that's when I definitely, 'cause I hadn't even declared a major. That's when I decided right then I was gonna be in her department 'cause I so admired her and wanted to be around her and, we've been friends for life and I just think she's a terrific person, it's one of those human things that I don't think could happen at one of these huge [University of] Michigan [Ann Arbor, Michigan], Michigan State [University, East Lansing, Michigan] type schools and I think it's one of the advantages of a, of a place like Fisk University. And she, she made it for me, she just, and I just, there's nothing I wouldn't do for her today, nothing.$$Okay.$So what did you do afterwards [after earning her M.A. degree from American University, Washington, D.C.], I mean, what--?$$You know what? I am one of the luckiest people alive on the face of the earth. I came back home [Detroit, Michigan] after grad [graduate] school and right about that time, they were about to launch WGPR TV in Detroit, that was, was the first black television station in the country. I knew some people over there, my father knew a couple people over there, I went over there and told them what I wanted to do and they hired me to be the anchor for Big City News, it was called, it debuted September 29, 1975, 'Big City News' with Amyre Porter and Pal D'Que. I had never anchored a newscast in my life, I had pretty much, other than an internship, never been in a television station in my life, to be able to start on that level in a top ten market in the city I grew up in, you, you can get struck by lightning first, I'm sure and win fifteen lottery tickets first as well. But that's the way it happened and that's how it started, I stayed there and I, I did 'Big City News,' I did a talk show every day called 'Porterhouse,' I didn't have a clue how to do a talk show, I would, c--in a hour a day, I would find people on the street and say, you know one thing I can do is talk, I can talk to anybody for an hour about anything, including a tree and I really believe that. I'd pull people off the streets, I'd call restaurants and ask for the owner, I called Detroit City Council and had them come in, just anybody I could think of who I knew who had something to say, I'd call 'em and invite 'em on 'Porterhouse' and we would sit there and talk and talk and talk and that's really how it all began. Now I had been there, it's a really interesting story and I used to tell this to kids in, in my speeches all the time, I had been there, oh geez, they canceled the news shortly after I started because they didn't have the money to keep it on, I decided that I was gonna stay anyway because I wanted the experience. After about a year, here I've got my big bad master's degree, I'm making zero, absolutely zero. First of all, I'd left a job, I was making 22 thousand dollars at Michigan Health Maintenance Organization, left that job to go to GPR for twelve five [twelve thousand five hundred], 30 days later they stopped paying me because they couldn't afford to keep that news on, but I stayed to do the Porter House and some other things. I'd gotten pretty discouraged and was able to get my old job back at Michigan Health Maintenance Organization at my old pay, well, just then, channel 50 called and asked me if I was interested in coming over there and I really was not, I was kinda discouraged because of what had happened and I decided, well, I'll give it one more shot. I went over there and that was in September of '77 [1977], and what I did was produce and host a live thirty minute talk show Monday through Friday and was also public affairs manager of the station, we started news in '86 [1986], and I've anchored that and, and in some form had a talk show ever since. But I, I, I walked away from a, from another job, it wound up being the best decision that I'd ever made and then I stayed there for, I stayed at 50 or WKBD for twenty-five years.$$Okay. Wow, that is--this story is, is really remarkable, you know?$$It is.$$It just seems like it just--$$It absolutely is, I was never a reporter, I never had to do the street thing, I never had to go to the cities that you've never heard of before to get experience. I never led the gypsy lifestyle, I never left there, I stayed there and never left and I'm still doing special projects for the station (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Now--