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Michael Lomax

Nonprofit executive Michael Lomax was born on October 2, 1947, in Los Angeles, California to parents Hallie Alemena Davis and Lucius W. Lomax, Jr. He moved to Tuskegee, Alabama in 1961, where he attended Tuskegee Institute High School. He earned his B.A. degree in English from Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia, in 1968, his M.A. degree in English literature from Columbia University in New York in 1972, and his Ph.D. degree in African American studies from Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia in 1984.

After graduation, Lomax began teaching English at Morehouse College. In 1974, he was hired as the director of research and special assistant to the mayor of Atlanta. While in this position, Lomax helped establish the City of Atlanta’s Office of Cultural Affairs, where he served as director. In 1978, Lomax was elected to the Fulton County Board of Commissioners. Two years later, he became the first African American to be elected as board chairman, a position he held for twelve years. In 1981, Lomax began working as a professor of English at Spelman College in Atlanta. He served as the president of The National Faculty in Atlanta from 1994 to 1997. From 1997 to 2004, he served as president and professor of English and African world studies at Dillard University in New Orleans, Louisiana. Lomax then began serving as the president and chief executive officer of the United Negro College Fund in Washington, D.C.

Lomax has served on the board for Teach for America and the KIPP Foundation, as well as the Carter Center, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, and the Studio Museum of Harlem. He was a member of the founding Council of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of African American History and Culture. He also founded the National Black Arts Festival in 1978. Lomax served on the President’s Board of Advisors on Historically Black Colleges and Universities under President George W. Bush. He has received several awards as well, including the Emory Medal and several honorary degrees.

Lomax and his wife, Cheryl, have two daughters, Michele and Rachel.

Michael Lomax was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on January 31, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.013

Sex

Male

Interview Date

01/31/2017

Last Name

Lomax

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

L.

Occupation
Schools

Morehouse College

Columbia University

Emory University

Tuskegee Institute High School

Los Angeles High School

Arlington Heights Elementary School

First Name

Michael

Birth City, State, Country

Los Angeles

HM ID

LOM01

Favorite Season

Spring

State

California

Favorite Vacation Destination

Mexico

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

10/2/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Nonprofit executive Michael Lomax (1947- ) was the first African American chairman of the Fulton County Board of Commissioners, served as president of Dillard University from 1997 to 2004, and became president of the United Negro College Fund in 2004.

Employment

United Negro College Fund

Dillard University

National Faculty

Wilson Financial

Fulton Board County Commissioner

Spelman College

City of Atlanta

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Michael Lomax's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Michael Lomax lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Michael Lomax describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Michael Lomax describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Michael Lomax talks about his mother's education

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Michael Lomax describes his paternal grandfather's background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Michael Lomax talks about his paternal grandmother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Michael Lomax describes his paternal grandmother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Michael Lomax talks about his family's migration out of the South

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Michael Lomax talks about his paternal grandfather's financial success

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Michael Lomax reflects upon the richness of his family history

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Michael Lomax describes the Dunbar Cocktail Lounge and Grill on Central Avenue in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Michael Lomax talks about his parents' courtship

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Michael Lomax talks about his mother's manuscripts

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Michael Lomax describes his parents' personalities and interests

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Michael Lomax talks about his mother's coverage of the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Michael Lomax describes his paternal grandparents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Michael Lomax remembers his early exposure to African American celebrities

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Michael Lomax talks about his parents' association with leftists in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Michael Lomax lists his siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Michael Lomax describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Michael Lomax describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Michael Lomax describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Michael Lomax describes his neighborhood in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Michael Lomax remembers his parents' divorce

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Michael Lomax remembers moving to Tuskegee, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Michael Lomax describes his community in Tuskegee, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Michael Lomax talks about his inheritance

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Michael Lomax describes his mother's decision to cover the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Michael Lomax remembers the Watts riots of 1965

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Michael Lomax talks about the influence of his paternal grandmother

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Michael Lomax remembers his early interest in reading

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Michael Lomax recalls his admission to Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Michael Lomax remembers Morehouse College President Benjamin Mays

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Michael Lomax recalls his reputation at Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Michael Lomax remembers the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Michael Lomax recalls the funeral service for Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Michael Lomax recalls his graduation from Morehouse College

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Michael Lomax remembers taking classes at Atlanta University and Spelman College

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Michael Lomax describes his theater involvement during college

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Michael Lomax remembers his English literature courses at Morehouse College

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Michael Lomax recalls becoming an English instructor at Morehouse College

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Michael Lomax talks about his wife, Pearl Cleage's family background

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Michael Lomax remembers moving with Pearl Cleage to Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Michael Lomax talks about the Black Power movement

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Michael Lomax remembers the Black Arts Movement in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Michael Lomax talks about his dissertation

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Michael Lomax recalls the start of his political career in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Michael Lomax recalls his election to the Fulton County Board of Commissioners

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Michael Lomax talks about the Atlanta Cyclorama and Civil War Museum

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Michael Lomax describes his work on the Fulton County Board of Commissioners

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Michael Lomax talks about the administration of Mayor Maynard Jackson

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Michael Lomax describes his time in the Office of Cultural Affairs in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Michael Lomax describes the opportunities for black artists in Atlanta, Georgia, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Michael Lomax describes the opportunities for black artists in Atlanta, Georgia, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Michael Lomax talks about the expansion of the William B. Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Michael Lomax remembers his decision to leave politics

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Michael Lomax talks about the City of Atlanta's bid for the 1996 Summer Olympics

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Michael Lomax recalls his decision to pursue a college presidency

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

3$8

DATitle
Michael Lomax remembers the Black Arts Movement in Atlanta, Georgia
Michael Lomax recalls his decision to pursue a college presidency
Transcript
The war [Vietnam War] ends and the decision is gonna be, are we gonna stay in Atlanta [Georgia]. I got to go back to grad- I can go back to graduate school and I get admitted to Dartmouth [Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire], so there's a possibility of going there but we go up and visit Dartmouth in the middle of the winter, so, no. I got admitted to Berkeley [University of California, Berkeley, Berkeley, California]; didn't wanna go there. Could go back to Columbia [Columbia University, New York, New York] but we made the decision to stay in Atlanta and I went to Emory [Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia] to get my Ph.D. And Pearl [HistoryMaker Pearl Cleage] took a job working for something called the Southern Education Program [Atlanta, Georgia], which placed black teachers at small black colleges [HBCUs]. And we're in the middle of the Black Arts Movement and, you know, neighborhood art centers are developing and cool artists are there and, you know, you're--there's a black bookstore and you're reading black poetry and the, IBW is, you know, Institute of the Black World [Atlanta, Georgia] is having, you know, Mrs. Du Bois do--I remember, I remember one evening, this was the, you know, a classic evening, an IBW event. Shirley Graham Du Bois is there and Coretta Scott King, in African garb, recites poetry. I mean, it's just, there's things that you wouldn't believe. And these, and, you know, these, these were people who were still--in the case of Mrs. King, you know, beautiful, vibrant widow, still traumatized, but beginning the work to build not just The King Center [Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, Atlanta, Georgia] but to create a King holiday [Martin Luther King Jr. Day]. And, you know, there's, there's a lot going on (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Yeah you would think--I think people assume that people of the past were ideologically separated, even if they were they still functioned together.$$No, I mean, it, it was interesting because, you know, you had the Institute for the Black World [sic.], which was, you know, on the left of the black historical movement, you know, and, you know, they were--create the black university and all that, study black history, study bla- you know, a new, a new, newly emergent ideologically driven black, black view of the black past; but also very respectful of the forbearers and that's why, you know, you would have a C.L.R. James coming, you know, you'd go--speak to the Institute of the Black World. But, you know, there, Bobby, what was Bobby's last name? Gosh, my brain isn't working but who was the historian for the, the Garvey movement, the West Indian guy.$$Yeah, Bobby Hill [Robert A. Hill].$$Bobby Hill. So, Bobby is there, young Bobby Hill, you know, and all this stuff about Garvey [Marcus Garvey] and then, you know, people are writing, doing new writing on Du Bois [W.E.B. Du Bois] and, and, of course, Shirley Graham Du Bois is there. And, and so this is, this is the emergence of, you know, the legitimate study of African American past, African American history. And the reason--one of the reasons why I went to Emory was Emory was, and they had something called the Institute for the Liberal Arts [Graduate Institute of the Liberal Arts; Institute for the Liberal Arts] and they were prepared to allow me to create a, my own personal field of study which would allow me to study the Harlem Renaissance.$Your political life ended, ends in what, 19--?$$My political life ends in 1993--$$Okay.$$--when I run for mayor and lose to Bill Campbell, and--yeah, 1993.$$Okay.$$I'm dead meat. At, by 1993 at the age of, what forty-seven or something like that, I am history; I'm dead meat. No one will ever know me again. I have, as I said flown too close to the sun and my wings have been melted and I fall on my behind. And, yeah, the question is in '93 [1993] will I have any kind of a career ever again.$$Well, I, you know, I, we see, you know, that there have been many times in the history of this country where people look like they're done with something and then they bounce back. But something happened I guess, in, in that period that convinced you, you needed to do something else--or you wanted to do something else.$$Yeah.$$Yeah.$$So, I had, so I did a couple of things. I said, well, maybe I should go into business. And I had tried this, my hand at buying a funeral home [Amistad Corporation, Atlanta, Georgia] and operating that--that was, I lived to talk about it, I succeeded, but I didn't wanna do that. I didn't wanna be a businessperson. I ran a small nonprofit. But I did decide--so here's what I did decide. I, I, I said I wanna commit my life to social change and to changing opportunity for my own community; and I think that I'm probably best suited to do that not as a politician but as an educator. But I don't wanna do it in the classroom, I don't want--I wanna find a bigger venue in which to do that, and that's when I decided that I would, I would find a way to become a college president. Now, I had a Ph.D. and but I had really not had a--I kept teaching from '70 [1970] up, up until about '88 [1988] I was still teaching at Spelman [Spelman College, Atlanta, Georgia]. But I really, people thought of me, I, he's the chairman of the Fulton County commission [Fulton County Board of Commissioners], people always called me Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman--not Dr. Lomax [HistoryMaker Michael Lomax]. And I remember that Morehouse [Morehouse College, Atlanta, Georgia], I said, boy, you know, I really would love to be president of Morehouse. And I remember--I, I, I did get an interview with the search committee. And I remember that one of the members of the search committee, who was at that time the CEO of Coca-Cola [The Coca-Cola Company], looking at me and saying, "Michael, why are you here? You're not an academic; you're a politician." And I realized that I had, in the minds of most people, I was a politician; I wasn't an academic. And so, I had to decide to do two things: I had to reinvent myself, and I probably had to leave town. And that was when I made the decision that I would find a transitional job and that was in a nonprofit called the National Faculty, and it was a small nonprofit in Atlanta [Georgia]. But the reason why it seemed like the right one to do is I was on the board of it and the guy who had been president of the non- had been named the president of American University in Washington, D.C. So I said if it was good enough for Ben Ladner [Benjamin Ladner], this may be a good enough launch. And so, for three years I led this small nonprofit that worked with school systems and universities to provide professional development for schools. And after doing it for about three or four years I got my first college presidency [at Dillard University, New Orleans, Louisiana]; and I think that's where we should stop.

Nancy Lane

Corporate executive Nancy Lane was born in Boston, Massachusetts to Gladys Lane and Samuel Lane. She received her B.S. degree in public relations and journalism from Boston University in 1962, and went on to earn her M.P.A. degree at the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public and International Affairs in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In 1975, Lane completed the Program for Management Development at Harvard Business School in Boston.

Lane began her career at the Westinghouse Broadcasting Company. She then worked as a project manager for the National Urban League, where she developed the Black Executive Exchange Program. From 1972 to 1973, Lane was the second vice president and head of executive recruitment at Chase Manhattan Bank in New York. She became the vice president of personnel at New York Off-Track Betting Corporation in 1973, before joining the administration department at the Johnson & Johnson Products corporate headquarters in New Brunswick, New Jersey in 1975. The following year, Lane was named vice president of human resources and administration, making her the first woman to assume the role. She also served on the board of directors of Ortho Diagnostic Systems, a division of Johnson & Johnson. She was the first female vice president, and first African American, to sit on Johnson & Johnson’s management board. Lane served as vice president of government affairs at Johnson & Johnson’s corporate headquarters until her retirement in 2000.

Lane held several board positions, including on the board of governors at Rutgers University, the National Board of Directors for the NAACP. She also served as the lead NGO representative at the United Nations. She also served on the board of Bloomfield College, the board of trustees for Freedom House, the board of directors for the SEED Foundation, and the board of Studio Museum in Harlem. She was as an advisor for The International Review of African American Art, as well as a co-chair of the Stieglitz Society at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. In 1987, Lane received the Distinguished Alumni Award from Boston University, which is the highest honor bestowed upon an alumnus.

Nancy Lane was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on October 28, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.041

Sex

Female

Interview Date

10/28/2016

Last Name

Lane

Maker Category
Middle Name

L.

Occupation
Schools

Boston University

University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public and International Affairs

Harvard Business School

Roxbury Memorial High School

Henry Lee Higginson Elementary School

First Name

Nancy

Birth City, State, Country

Alexandria

HM ID

LAN10

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

New York City

Favorite Quote

It's Up To Me.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Almost Everything

Short Description

Corporate executive Nancy Lane (1944 - ) worked for Johnson & Johnson Products for over twenty-five years, and also served on the boards of Rutgers University, Bloomfield College, the NAACP and the Studio Museum in Harlem.

Employment

North American Representative of the International Union of Students

National Urban League, Westinghouse Broadcasting Company

National Urban League

Chase Manhattan Bank

New York City Off-Track Betting Corporation

Johnson & Johnson

Favorite Color

Yellow

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Nancy Lane's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Nancy Lane lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Nancy Lane describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Nancy Lane describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Nancy Lane talks about how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Nancy Lane describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Nancy Lane remembers her neighbors in Boston, Massachusetts, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Nancy Lane talks about her parents' careers

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Nancy Lane describes her early personality

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Nancy Lane remembers her neighbors in Boston, Massachusetts, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Nancy Lane recalls working at the Boston Public Library

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Nancy Lane describes her undergraduate education

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Nancy Lane talks about her early understanding of race

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Nancy Lane remembers studying abroad in Norway, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Nancy Lane remembers studying abroad in Norway, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Nancy Lane remembers her experiences in Austria

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Nancy Lane describes the start of her business career

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Nancy Lane recalls working at an educational organization in the Netherlands

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Nancy Lane remembers joining the Westinghouse Broadcasting Company

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Nancy Lane talks about the changes in her personality and aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Nancy Lane remembers her master's degree program at the University of Pittsburgh

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Nancy Lane remembers moving to Greenwich Village in New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Nancy Lane remembers creating the National Urban League's Black Executive Exchange Program

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Nancy Lane describes the National Urban League's Black Executive Exchange Program

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Nancy Lane describes her career at the National Urban League

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Nancy Lane recalls becoming an executive recruiter at Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Nancy Lane describes her experiences in Chase Manhattan Bank's executive dining room

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Nancy Lane remembers joining the New York City Off-Track Betting Corporation

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Nancy Lane recalls the executive training program at Harvard Business School

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Nancy Lane remembers joining the board of the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Nancy Lane talks about the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Nancy Lane talks about the founding of the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Nancy Lane remembers the directors of the Studio Museum in Harlem, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Nancy Lane remembers the directors of the Studio Museum in Harlem, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Nancy Lane talks about the leadership of Thelma Golden at the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Nancy Lane describes the Studio Museum in Harlem Gala

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Nancy Lane talks about her role at the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Nancy Lane remembers joining Johnson and Johnson Products

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Nancy Lane recalls becoming the first female vice president at Johnson and Johnson Products

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Nancy Lane talks about her civic engagement in New York City

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Nancy Lane describes the highlights of her career at Johnson and Johnson Products

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Nancy Lane reflects upon her career at Johnson and Johnson Products

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Nancy Lane remembers the Chicago Tylenol murders

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Nancy Lane talks about her retirement from Johnson and Johnson Services, Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Nancy Lane talks about African American businessman H. Naylor Fitzhugh

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Nancy Lane reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Nancy Lane shares her advice to African American youth

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Nancy Lane reflects upon her life and plans for the future

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Nancy Lane talks about her interest in art

DASession

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DATape

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DAStory

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DATitle
Nancy Lane remembers creating the National Urban League's Black Executive Exchange Program
Nancy Lane talks about her role at the Studio Museum in Harlem
Transcript
So you work as project manager for the National Urban League--$$Right.$$--for, for about two years?$$Well you know, it was supposed to be for a year. They gave me the job of the century. I had an assignment they called the Summer Fellowship Program, so we know that African Americans who taught at historically black colleges [HBCUs] often had to teach subjects where they might not have had corporate experience- experiences themselves. So, for example, there was a professor who taught applied mathematics at Grambling [Grambling College; Grambling State University, Grambling, Louisiana], and that was when they said it was harder to make the, the team, the, the music team, the band, than it was to make the football team at Grambling. And, so, anyway, I guess they had so much--$$They had great--yes, sure.$$--talent in football. You know, and so on. So, anyway, my job was to visit the college campuses, interview faculty, and talk to them about spending summers in industry, and then, during the fall, work with corporations that were tied to the Urban League and talk to them about hiring for a summer one of these faculty members; and the pitch was, hire this person. Help them expand the program and the curriculum at the college that they're at, and when you go back to that college to recruit, you've got your person on the campus who knows the students, who knows your corporation, and who will be your, your onsite recruiter for you. And so--and then what would happen, so my job was in the fall to go to the college campuses, in the winter to work with the corporations in terms of making matches; and then in the summer, visit the professors on assignment. How is it going? What did you like? What would you like to have that would be a different kind of experience? And to say to the companies, can we sign you up again for next year? So I did that for the Urban League, and I guess it was maybe after two years--you see, I couldn't leave the job. I mean, you would agree. That was a job. You're making a contribution to others. You're meeting faculty, et cetera, and so many areas. The head of the business department at Morehouse [Morehouse College, Atlanta, Georgia] had never worked in industry at that time. He was an economist, wonderful man, Dr. E.B. Williams, wonderful. People who know Morehouse know him. And, and so anyway (background noise), what happened was that I said to myself, but when these professors come back to their campus, they're going to have new ideas about what should happen, but their ideas might meet some resistance. What can I do to make a difference for them and also to ensure that the programs are going to be effective? And so I thought about it, and in those days, executive in residence programs did not include black colleges, and so I created what became known--and ran for forty-five years--I created what became known as the Black Executive Exchange Program, and so with that program--it's the joy of my life--with that program, we would, you know, when I--when it was just an idea, I said to black executives I knew--of course, mostly males in those days in the '60s [1960s]--I said to them, "How would you like to spend some time on a college campus?" And they said, "Well, we'd like to, but I wouldn't dare leave my job for any period of time." "You wouldn't leave for a month?" "I wouldn't leave for a week," they'd tell me, "It might not be there when I got back." And so I then thought to myself, how do I get around that problem?$And so as a board member, what is your role in supporting the evolution of the museum [Studio Museum in Harlem, New York, New York]?$$So my focus has been in different areas. As I mentioned, I was chair of the board, and I think--and before that, too, my focus has been on recruiting talent for our board; and so people sometimes would give us names, and other times, it would be somebody I would see. So I don't want to say the name, but I was chatting once with someone, and, and they said, "Gee, have you ever recruited this person," and the guy was standing right there beside us, "for your board?" I said, "I'm embarrassed to say no, but we'll go after it now." A longtime board member now. And so we--so I was interested in, in recruiting people. [HistoryMaker] Carol Sutton Lewis heads our nominating committee, and I serve on that committee, so that's one of the areas that I'm focusing on. I'm focusing on the, the building campaign. Yeah. Master, master--major, major, major, major.$$When will the--will--when do you imagine that will come about?$$They tell us to say soon.$$(Laughter).$$(Laughter) But you know that our architect is David Adjaye, who's just done the--$$Yes.$$--Smithsonian [National Museum of African American History and Culture, Washington, D.C.], and we've had great support from a number of organizations and people here in New York City [New York, New York], and so we're very excited about it. And so we said, where should we be with our new building? And we said, where else but in our current location? So we'll be taking down the new--the current building; and at the suggestion also of [HistoryMaker] Theaster Gates, we are going to incorporate a work of art that's reflective of the old building, our current building in--as a piece of art--in our new building.$$Huh.$$Yes. And so that's going to be incorporated into the design and on exhibition permanently. And there are a couple of other pieces that I expect will always be up such as our 'Me/We' piece--that neon piece, beautiful piece that Glenn Ligon did; and so, so I'm focused on the building, and I'm also focused on the acquisitions for our collection. And I'm so proud of our committee. We have a great committee, and I would say we have about thirty-odd people on that committee; and the joy is that when Thelma [HistoryMaker Thelma Golden] and the museum staff present work to us to consider purchasing, and we always purchase one work from each of the artists in residence, by the way, so that we will always have their early days, like Kehinde Wiley. We have--$$Yes.$$--early purse--piece from Kehinde. And Kehinde, when he was an artist in residence--$$I remember.$$--and he also lived in the--in his studio because times were tough for Kehinde then, and now look at him, you know, international star. But, anyway, so, so my focus is also on building our collection; and the committee not only--the funds that they contribute each year are the funds that we use to purchase work, and then so often at our meetings--and we had one about three weeks ago--what will happen is, we don't have enough money to buy something, and someone will say (gesture), "Let me buy that and contribute it to the museum," and so that happens repeatedly at our meetings, and I think of our permanent collection, I've never asked Thelma, but I think it's fair to say--I'm a little biased--but I think it's fair to say a good 30 percent of that permanent collection has come through our acquisitions committee, so that's just been wonderful.$$And so are all purchases made by the museum approved by the board?$$Technically. And like other museums. You know, there's a meeting at which Thelma--when she does her annual report, she will then report to them on the acquisitions and what's the--additions to the collection, which includes not only those we purchase but work that have been donated to the museum by others who care about us, our mission, and who admire the artists that we do.$$Excellent.$$And so that's when we take an official vote.$$Excellent.

Henry W. McGee

Broadcast executive Henry W. McGee was born on January 22, 1953 in Chicago, Illinois to Henry McGee Jr. and Catherine Williams. At the age of sixteen, McGee moved with his father to Los Angeles, California, and attended Palisades High School in Pacific Palisades, California until his junior year when he received early admission to Harvard University. McGee earned his B.A. degree in social studies magna cum laude in 1974. Later he received his M.B.A. degree from Harvard Business School in 1979.

McGee worked as a writer for Newsweek from 1974 to 1977 in New York and Washington D.C. After he obtained his M.B.A. degree, he was hired as a manager of film acquisition for Home Box Office (HBO), which was then a new venture at Time, Inc. McGee went on to serve as director of program acquisition for Time-Life Films from 1980 to 1981, director of Cinemax Program Planning and HBO Family Programming from 1981 to 1983, director of HBO Enterprises from 1983 to 1985, vice president of home video from 1985 to 1988, and senior vice president of programming for HBO Video from 1988 to 1995. In March of 1995, McGee was promoted to president of HBO Home Entertainment. Under his leadership, HBO became the leading force in the TV-to-DVD industry and a pioneer in using the Internet for marketing and sales. After retiring from HBO in 2013, McGee joined the faculty of Harvard Business School as a senior lecturer.

In 2004, McGee was elected to the board of AmerisourceBergen, the global pharmaceutical services company, and in 2017 was named chairman of the company’s Governance and Nominating Committee. In 2015, he joined the board of TEGNA, Inc., a broadcast and digital media company that owns the largest number of affiliates of the NBC television network. McGee also served on several nonprofit boards, including as director of the Black Filmmaker Foundation board since 1985, and the Pew Research Center board since 2014. He also served as director and president of the Film Society of Lincoln Center board, and the Alvin Ailey Dance Theater Foundation board. He served as a director of the boards of the Save the Children Fund, the Time Warner Foundation, Studio Museum in Harlem, and the Sundance Institute. Additionally, McGee served on the advisory board of Harvard University’s Hutchins Center for African & African American Research.

McGee was inducted into Variety’s Home Entertainment Hall of Fame, and the National Association of Minorities in Communication Hall of Fame. He also received the Professional Achievement Award from the Harvard Business School African American Alumni Association, and was named by Black Enterprise as one of the “50 Most Powerful African Americans in the Entertainment Business.” In 2018 the National Association of Corporate Directors named McGee one of the 100 most influential people in the boardroom community.

McGee and his wife, Celia, have one daughter, Honor.

Henry W. McGee was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 22, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.025

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/22/2016

Last Name

McGee

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Wadsworth

Schools

Washington Dual Language Academy

Alain L Locke Elementary School

Horace Mann School

Palisades Charter High School

Harvard University

Harvard Business School

Tolleston Middle School

First Name

Henry

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

MCG08

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Paris, France

Favorite Quote

If You Don't Know Where You Are Going Any Road Will Get You There.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

1/22/1953

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Grilled Chicken

Short Description

Broadcast executive Henry W. McGee (1953 - ) worked at HBO Home Entertainment for over thirty-five years, where he served as president from 1995 to 2014. He then became a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School.

Employment

Harvard Business School

HBO Home Entertainment

HBO Video

HBO

HBO Enterprises

Cinemax Program Planning and HBO Family Programming

Time-Life Films

Newsweek

GE Asset Management

Favorite Color

Navy Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Henry W. McGee's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Henry W. McGee lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Henry W. McGee describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Henry W. McGee talks about his mother's light complexion

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Henry W. McGee describes his paternal grandfather's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Henry W. McGee describes his paternal grandfather's career at the post office

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Henry W. McGee describes his paternal family's emphasis on education

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Henry W. McGee describes his father's career

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Henry W. McGee describes his paternal grandfather's civil rights work

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Henry W. McGee describes his father's work for the Legal Services Program

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Henry W. McGee remembers his parents' divorce, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Henry W. McGee describes his father's career in higher education

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Henry W. McGee remembers moving to Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Henry W. McGee describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Henry W. McGee remembers his parents' divorce, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Henry W. McGee remembers living with his maternal family in Maywood, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Henry W. McGee remembers the community of Maywood, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Henry W. McGee remembers moving to Gary, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Henry W. McGee describes his neighborhood in Gary, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Henry W. McGee remembers school desegregation in Gary, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Henry W. McGee remembers attending a summer program at the Mount Hermon School for Boys in Northfield, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Henry W. McGee recalls his early admission to Harvard University

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Henry W. McGee remembers his aspiration to become a journalist

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Henry W. McGee recalls his summer internships at Newsweek magazine

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Henry W. McGee remembers the black student community at Harvard University

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Henry W. McGee recalls his parents' reaction to his admission to Harvard University

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Henry W. McGee remembers joining the staff of Newsweek magazine

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Henry W. McGee remembers working for Newsweek in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Henry W. McGee recalls his decision to attend Harvard Business School

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Henry W. McGee recalls being offered a position at Time Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Henry W. McGee recalls his decision to work at Home Box Office

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Henry W. McGee describes the original business model of Home Box Office

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Henry W. McGee describes his role at Home Box Office, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Henry W. McGee describes his role at Home Box Office, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Henry W. McGee talks about the early home movie industry

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Henry W. McGee recalls the impact of DVDs on the home entertainment industry

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Henry W. McGee remembers the introduction of original programming on Home Box Office

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Henry W. McGee talks about Home Box Office's original series

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Henry W. McGee describes Home Box Office's corporate history

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Henry W. McGee remembers his presidency of Home Box Office

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Henry W. McGee describes Home Box Office's international expansion

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Henry W. McGee remembers designing a business ethics curriculum

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Henry W. McGee remembers becoming a full time instructor at the Harvard Business School

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Henry W. McGee reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Henry W. McGee shares his advice to aspiring film industry professionals

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Henry W. McGee reflects upon his life and organizational activities

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Henry W. McGee narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

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DAStory

6$5

DATitle
Henry W. McGee describes his role at Home Box Office, pt. 1
Henry W. McGee remembers his aspiration to become a journalist
Transcript
As one of these nine M.B.A.'s who comes in to share your wisdom, what are you all doing? What, what's happening (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Well, different, different things. Well so, so again this was the advantage, I joined HBO [Home Box Office] when it had fewer than 3 million subscribers. It was a single network that wasn't on twenty-four hours a day. Our--the technology at the time was so crude that our affiliates in Hawaii and Puerto Rico couldn't receive the satellite signal. And we used to have to package up the movies on large cassettes, ship them to them, and they originate HBO locally. And as I said fast, original programming really wasn't on the, the map. Flash forward to today, HBO is a global network with well over a hundred million subscribers. The majority of which by the way are outside the U.S., and is as evidenced by Sunday's Emmy Awards is the most important force in originally scripted programming in the telv- in, in the television industry. So all that hap- all that was to come, but when I showed up, it was all about movies. They had all these M.B.A.'s and they sort of sorted them out into different, different jobs. And because I had been a, a writer, they felt that I could sort of talk, talk with the crazies if you will, out in, in Hollywood. And because I had the, the M.B.A. I could presumably negotiate with them, so I was given a job for which I was wholly unqualified. Which was negotiating the rights to independently produced films and foreign language films for exhibition on this service that wasn't even on twenty-four hours, twenty-four hours a day. Show, again, shows you how old, long ago HBO even no longer shows foreign language films on its main show, it's got other, you know. So this was an unbelievable opportunity for me.$$And you're about how old now?$$I was probably twenty-seven or so. Time Inc. is a very wealthy company, everything always had to be done top drawer. So at twenty-seven I was essentially given a credit card and unlimited amount of first class tickets. And told that I had to stay at the Beverly Hills Hotel [Beverly Hills, California] and correctly represent the company. And buy as many independent and foreign language films as, as I could. So that was also at the beginning of the birth of the American independent film business. So to have that sort of checkbook and power--yeah pay television was a very important sort of financing stream--put me at the beginning of that movement.$When you were applying to Harvard [Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts], did you have a sense of what you wanted to do with your life, what work you wanted to pursue?$$(Pause) No, I suspect that in my early days, because my father [Henry W. McGee, Jr.] was a gr- was a great role model for me, that I would probably--and this would of course made my grandparents [Attye Belle Truesdale McGee and Henry W. McGee, Sr.] happy--that I would become a, a lawyer. And sort of keep in the family tradition of, of, of public service in one way or another. What evolved over those years as a freshman in college, because I al- had always been interested in writing. And I was vaguely aware of my father's foray and brief foray into journalism; I joined the student daily, The Harvard, The Harvard Crimson. And in that group I dev- quickly developed my some of my closest friends even to this, this day, met my wife [Celia Betsky McGee] on the paper. In that the, the involvement in The Harvard Crimson was a, so central part of my college experience and shaped my decision early in the, early on there to become a journalist. Now there was some extern- couple of external factors there, one is in the early--we're just coming off the era of the Pentagon Papers. Early Watergate--well sort of in the middle of Watergate report, right before it. And being a journalist was, if you wanna do public service, that was one of the highest callings you could have. My father who regrettably had his journal- journalistic ambitions thwarted, was quite encouraging.

Gordon J. Davis

Lawyer and civic leader Gordon J. Davis was born on August 7, 1941, in Chicago, Illinois to William Allison Davis and Elizabeth Stubbs Davis. Davis grew up near a predominantly African American neighborhood, where he gained a passion for jazz and the arts. He graduated from Williams College in 1963 with his B.A. degree, and then from Harvard Law School in 1967 with his J.D. degree.

Upon graduation, Davis moved to New York City and worked as special assistant to Mayor John Lindsay. He served on the New York City Planning Commission from 1973 until 1978, when he was appointed New York City’s first African American commissioner of Parks and Recreation. During his service as commissioner, Davis was instrumental in the founding of the Central Park Conservancy. In 1983, Davis resigned as commissioner of Parks and Recreation and joined the law firm of Lord, Day & Lord. He began serving as counsel to the Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts that same year. In 1990, he became the founding chairman of Jazz at Lincoln Center.

Davis was named partner at the law firm of LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae in 1994, but left in 2001 when he was voted the first African American president of Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts. Davis held this position for nine months before returning to LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae as a senior partner. In 2002, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the organization overseeing the redevelopment of the Ground Zero site, became his client. Davis was named partner at Dewey & LeBoeuf in 2007, after a merger joined LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae and Dewey Ballantine. In 2012, he moved to Venable, LLP as a partner. Davis’ clients have included the New York Public Library, Mt. Sinai Medical Center, the United States Tennis Association, and the American Museum of Natural History.

Davis has served on the board of directors of the Municipal Art Society of New York as well as other civic and arts organizations in New York City. In 2001, he was honored by 100 Black Men for his public service, and was named one of “America’s Top Black Lawyers” by Black Enterprise magazine the following year. He was appointed to a six-year term on the board of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts by President Barack Obama in 2010.

Davis lives in New York City with his wife, and has one daughter.

Gordon J. Davis was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on July 17, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.205

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/17/2014 |and| 7/13/2016

Last Name

Davis

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Jamison

Occupation
Schools

Francis W. Parker High School

Hyde Park Academy High School

Williams College

Columbia University

Harvard Law School

First Name

Gordon

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

DAV34

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Oak Bluffs

Favorite Quote

Black People Are Just As Good As White People, Actually, They're A Little Better.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

8/7/1941

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken, Watermelon

Short Description

Lawyer and civic leader Gordon J. Davis (1941 - ) a partner with the law firm of Venable, LLP, was the first African American commissioner of Parks and Recreation for the City of New York, as well as first African American president of Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts.

Employment

Venable LLP

LeBoeuf Lamb / Dewey LeBoeuf

Lincoln Center Inc.

Lord Day & Lord

New York City Parks Department

New York City Planning Commission

Mayor's Office, New York City

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:1288,15:1806,24:2916,45:6912,132:10686,239:12314,272:13498,293:20262,369:20572,375:21626,420:27140,540:28115,556:33656,648:34248,657:38614,792:38910,797:48402,966:49662,1013:53880,1076:58205,1130:60905,1180:63455,1224:64430,1238:64805,1244:65180,1250:70454,1329:73283,1414:78803,1615:88835,1732:89285,1739:89585,1744:92360,1800:93485,1828:94010,1836:94610,1846:100083,1919:101784,1961:102270,1968:111144,2089:111765,2099:113076,2130:115422,2178:115905,2185:119807,2229:123610,2242:125164,2277:130788,2422:139040,2563:139365,2569:145104,2615:146058,2629:148230,2653:148580,2659:151213,2682:152032,2692:159130,2903:163490,2919:163746,2924:165218,2964:165538,2970:165794,2977:176439,3133:182470,3221:182830,3226:195522,3404:198482,3494:210415,3677:212790,3683:213342,3693:214584,3719:215343,3739:218580,3798:219644,3821:222802,3875:223390,3883:234100,4034:240192,4112:249830,4335:254226,4400:255632,4420:259098,4475:260781,4507:261474,4515:262068,4522:266030,4589:266360,4595:268472,4642:270056,4696:270452,4704:273635,4718:274160,4727:274610,4736:281245,4830:281561,4835:282114,4846:282509,4852:286064,4975:286459,4981:290409,5087:295900,5147$0,0:3089,5:7480,73:23040,304:23324,309:24531,340:25383,363:29510,437:31990,488:37866,590:41067,619:42033,639:46794,741:70298,1255:71066,1277:71642,1287:72282,1299:78800,1381:81660,1392:82024,1397:85692,1431:87279,1472:88521,1498:89280,1516:89556,1521:91971,1578:100060,1659:101320,1685:109230,1798:111130,1817:113530,1865:113930,1870:117570,1901:127011,2026:131709,2043:132147,2050:133680,2073:135724,2112:144452,2229:146990,2250:150332,2371:156976,2447:167280,2619:167883,2638:171099,2716:186929,2905:197512,3060:197897,3066:198821,3086:199668,3099:202971,3116:204258,3129:215820,3291:220788,3433:221064,3438:231191,3690:239524,3766:239980,3773:248578,3909:250624,3975:253229,4020:253667,4027:256222,4108:262296,4173:271589,4321:276346,4422:279380,4473:280610,4492:288278,4623:288658,4629:292914,4751:295270,4788:295650,4794:296030,4800:302204,4846:302714,4852:303836,4877:307260,4926:309560,4953:310960,4983:319706,5152:321704,5191:322962,5222:337016,5486:337396,5492:339588,5538:352230,5663
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Gordon J. Davis narrates his photographs, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Gordon J. Davis narrates his photographs, pt.2

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Gordon J. Davis narrates his photographs, pt.3

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Slating of Gordon J. Davis' interview

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Gordon J. Davis lists his favorites

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his mother's family history

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Gordon J. Davis recalls the untimely death of his maternal uncle, Frederick Douglass Stubbs

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his mother's education and his parents' marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Gordon J. Davis compares his experience at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts to his father's

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Gordon J. Davis recounts his confrontation with the dean of freshman at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Gordon J. Davis describes his childhood neighborhood of Hyde Park in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Gordon J. Davis details his father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his paternal grandfather's civil service career being derailed by President Woodrow Wilson's racist policies

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Gordon J. Davis cites publications that include his paternal family history

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his father's time and legacy at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his paternal family's educational achievements

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - Gordon J. Davis explains his father's bitterness toward Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 15 - Gordon J. Davis describes his father's experiences at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts and his Natchez research

Tape: 2 Story: 16 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his father's second marriage to Lois Mason and how the two met at Dillard University in New Orleans, Louisiana

Tape: 2 Story: 17 - Gordon J. Davis describes his father's friendship with the author Sterling Brown

Tape: 2 Story: 18 - Gordon J. Davis describes his father's personality

Tape: 2 Story: 19 - Gordon J. Davis describes his father's success as an academic innovator and mentor

Tape: 2 Story: 20 - Gordon J. Davis explains the significance of the Rosenwald Foundation

Tape: 2 Story: 21 - Gordon J. Davis describes his mother's later years

Tape: 2 Story: 22 - Gordon J. Davis describes his earliest childhood memories and his experience at Hyde Park High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his older brother

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Gordon J. Davis recalls perceptions of race and class while growing up in Hyde Park, Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his family's sense of racial identity, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Gordon J. Davis talks about his family's sense of racial identity, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Gordon J. Davis describes the use of humor in diffusing racially charged situations

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Gordon J. Davis remembers his time at the University of Chicago Laboratory School in Chicago, Illinois and in Jack and Jill

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Gordon J. Davis explains his academic goals and choosing to attend Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Gordon J. Davis describes his family lineage and racial identity

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Gordon J. Davis reminisces about his classmates at Francis Parker High School in Chicago, Illinois and his mother's death

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Gordon J. Davis describes his father's and uncle's careers academic careers

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Gordon J. Davis describes his summers at Idlewild, Michigan and his experience at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Gordon J. Davis remembers joining civil rights protests during his freshman year at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Gordon J. Davis recalls the social atmosphere during his time at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Gordon J. Davis talks about the movement to abolish fraternities at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$4

DAStory

3$7

DATitle
Gordon J. Davis talks about his family's sense of racial identity, pt. 1
Gordon J. Davis talks about the movement to abolish fraternities at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts
Transcript
Now, about the issue of color, can I ask you that, like you know, you talk about Allison [S. Davis] being, I mean, you know, he was confused. Well he was (simultaneous)--$$He wasn't confused. He just didn't understand the meaning of the word.$$Okay (laughter).$$We were never confused about race.$$And why (simultaneous)$$That maybe a bit apocryphal, but generally I don't ever remember him being confused about race, because of what our parents [Elizabeth Stubbs Davis and W. Allison Davis] taught us. They taught us, even to this day, sometimes white people almost say, "Well you could have passed for white, why didn't you?" As if it were a rational question. And I look at them and say, "Why would I want to be white?" (Laughter) Even if I had a choice, why would I want to be, and that always stuns them, because they never could imagine that being the answer. They can only imagine it would be much better to be white than.... And of course, that day, most days there were all kinds of black people disappearing, who'd passed, and so forth. But my parents were social scientists. My father spent his life studying race in this country, and education, and race and education, caste and stuff. So there was a consciousness about these issues in the house, not that we were going around thinking, but they--and the issue being anything other than colored people was never an issue. Even though--you know, and it wasn't an issue not only with us, it wasn't an issue with my father's brother [John A. Davis] and sister [Dorothy Davis]. It wasn't an issue in my mother's family (unclear) light-skinned people, all of us, although my father was darker.$$Yes, people talk (simultaneous)--$$He was darker.$$That's right. People talk about that. That he was darker.$$So that, so the whole growing up is littered with stories about how funny race can be. That Allison saying the teacher's white when she was black. We went to Hawaii (laughter). My father went to Hawaii (laughter) we went to Hawaii in 1947. My father was going to teach at the University of Hawaii. And his principal reason for going, however, was Hawaii was supposed to be the only place in the United States and its dominion, where there was no color line. Coming off the boat, you knew that wasn't true. It didn't take any research. You knew the minute you got to Hawaii there were color lines all over the place. I mean, there were white people, Hawaiians, Japanese, they're all, you know. But it didn't take any study to feel, to realize there was a color.... There's a great picture in the Hawaii Gazette [sic.], 1947, a picture of my father clearly black, a black person, "Distinguished Professor Comes to Hawaii From the University of Chicago to Study," blah, blah, blah. Well, that was, you know, we were a big deal. But there wasn't any need to study because we knew right away there was a color line. Although it was very diverse and the friends my parents had, there were a couple, she was very black, he was white, and the only place they could live a decent life was Hawaii in 1947. So they lived in Hawaii. Actually she, the woman, was she the grandmother of [HistoryMaker] Lani Guinier?$$Oh, I (simultaneous)--$$Lani Guinier's first name comes from the name of the woman who was--in any event, there's a picture of me--we lived in the Moana Hotel [Moana Surfrider, Honolulu, Hawaii]. There's a picture of me when my last day of class in whatever grade I was in, kindergarten, and the kids all gave me a lei with little good-bye notes on it. And you look at my class, there're very white kids there, all these Asian kids, it was very diverse. On the boat on the way over, which was only one class, it wasn't first class, it was only one class, we were in a boat on the way over. And we were a curious group. People would look at us and couldn't quite figure out what we were. A train, even the Pullman porters couldn't quite figure it out. (Sound). So we're on this boat for five days going to Hawaii and it's a woman from the South, she'd sort of been buzzing around and one time--you go up and down on an elevator, so we're in an elevator and my sister, my brother [Allison S. Davis] and myself going up and down the elevator. She finally had her chance. She said, "What are you all?" This is one of these stories from Urbana [ph.]. My brother said something like, "What do you mean?" "Well, what nationality are you all?" My brother said, "We all is Indians." (Laughter). This is another family story. Did he say that? I think, oh that's the story we told for sixty years, that he actually.... The woman was for real. I mean she definitely was trying to figure out what we were. So the issue of race, of color, it wasn't for a long time--the only people didn't know we were, couldn't figure out we were black were white people, because in Chicago [Illinois] everybody knew everybody on Langley [Avenue] everybody knew. I mean every once in a while some kids would wonder into our area of Langley and not know, and start to beat us up and we'd run to the school yard and say, "Tell them, tell them we're"--you know.$So I said about the guys freshman year, walking into the freshmen dining room to say come picket the White House [Washington, D.C.] and got booed and they didn't bounce, they didn't, you couldn't deter them at all. As an example of leadership I hadn't seen before. So at the end of our sophomore year, some guys who were in the so-called best fraternity in the campus, an incident occurred involving an Asian student that they thought should be a member, but the rest of the fraternity members booed down and wouldn't even consider him because he was Asian, even though he was eating his meals there every day. They walked out and they called a meeting in the physics lab to discuss the future, what should be done about fraternities and their effect on Williams [College, Williamstown, Massachusetts]. It ended up as something called the Grinnell Petition, named after the guy [Bruce Grinnell] who was the captain of the football team and lead the--and ninety of us signed the petition saying Williams should get rid of fraternities, the spring of our sophomore year. People had been saying things about fraternities at Williams for fifty years. My father [W. Allison Davis] said, "Don't go to Williams because of the fraternities." (Sound). But this was a little bit different because the people signing the petition were more centrists than the wacky non-affiliates and beatniks. That summer the president of Williams, James Phinney Baxter [III], who had been president for twenty-five years, it was his last year, he resigned, and the new president was a guy named John [Edward] Sawyer, a Yale [University, New Haven, Connecticut] economist. He began my junior year. He invited some of us "campus leaders" to come to dinner at his house--the president's house, and he and his little white wife and his little, tight-ass white self couldn't have been more boring, less interesting, less anything, I mean, we came away saying "Oh God, nothing is ever going to change." A week later, he eliminated the compulsory chapel. And the summer between our junior and senior year the board voted to abolish fraternities, immediately, no all-deliberate speed, no nothing. They said we're going to get rid of fraternities as fast as we can. The campus was in a state of shock. We were, the ninety of us, were in a state of shock. So within (simultaneous)--$$There were ninety of you?$$Only ninety had signed this petition (simultaneous)--$$Only nine (simultaneous)?$$--of the thousands of students, ninety, nine-o. And here this new president got the board to abolish it. Well, clearly he came with that as an agenda. It wasn't just us. He knew that was on his agenda, because he knew that Williams would never be a better institution until fraternities were gone, we could go co-ed without fraternities because fraternities meant you couldn't go coed. They housed--80 percent of the students were housed in fraternities, all men. Fraternities were a deterrent for anybody of color to go there. So, we were stunned. And outside of Williams, the Civil Rights Movement was reaching its crescendo. So I graduated in June of 1963 and a week before the graduation a bunch of guys who were my friends who had just come back from Birmingham [Alabama], they had been down there--the campus was all up in a civil rights thing, everybody was reading [James] Baldwin's '[The] Fire Next Time' and signing up to get on buses, the same place where they were, everybody was booed when they raised it four years before; the whole campus was swept up in the civil rights--had students visiting. SNCC [Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee] [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther] King [Jr.] spoke there. So this was the profound part of Williams. One, there's a personal change going on. It's a totally different experience than my father's [W. Allison Davis] experience obviously. But the world is changing and then Williams is changing, so it was sort of this triple layer of things going on. So the Williams experience became very indelible for me and for my group of friends, who are still very close. We still email all the time. We still talk all the time. It was a very indelible experience because all these things were happening happened at the same time. And all the guys who were totally, I mean, the outcry from the alumni about the fraternity issue, it did not--these WASPs [White Anglo Saxon Protestants], from this WASP, this boring WASP president and his boring WASP board, chairman of the board, who was a guy from--a Brahmin from Boston [Massachusetts], they didn't give a shit. And sure enough within three years the fraternities were gone, I mean gone. They had taken over the houses, they had kicked out all the fraternities, they were gone. I said, "Damn," and three years later it went coed, or four years later. And every step of the way--and the number of diverse students increased, increased, increased, increased. And every step of the way, it got better. All these guys were saying, oh it's going to be terrible, it's going to be (unclear). It became better academically. It became better socially. It's now the number one liberal arts college in the country, has been the last ten years and all this stuff. And it all began with this guy, Jack Sawyer, who nobody thought would change anything, and he just fooled the shit out of everybody. And he eventually became head of the Carnegie Foundation [sic. Andrew W. Mellon Foundation] and he was quite something. So, that in not quite a nutshell, that is why Williams was very profoundly important to me and my--changed me, affected me, whatever the right words are.$$So--

Susan Fales-Hill

Author, television writer and producer Susan Fales-Hill was born on August 15, 1962 in Rome, Italy to Timothy Fales and Haitian-American actress, Josephine Premice. Fales-Hill was raised in New York City, and graduated from the Lycee Francais de New York in 1980. In 1985, she graduated with her B.A. degree in history and literature from Harvard University.

Upon graduation, Fales-Hill began an apprenticeship as a writer on The Cosby Show. In 1987, she transferred to the show’s spin-off, A Different World, where she worked as a story editor. In 1990, Fales-Hill was promoted to co-executive producer and head writer. Then, in 1995, she became executive producer of the CBS sitcom, Can't Hurry Love. In 1996, Fales-Hill served first as executive producer of the family-oriented situation comedy, Kirk, then as a consulting producer on the television series Suddenly Susan. In 1998, she co-created with Tim Reid the Showtime original series Linc's, and served for two seasons as its executive producer and head writer.

In 2003, Fales-Hill published Always Wear Joy: My Mother Bold and Beautiful, a critically acclaimed memoir about her mother. The book was a finalist for the NAACP Image Award and the Zora Neale Hurston/Richard Wright Legacy Award for Nonfiction. It was an Atlanta Daily Choice Awards winner, and received a starred review from Kirkus. Fales-Hill has authored two other books: 2010’s novel, One Flight Up, and 2013’s Imperfect Bliss. She has also written several magazine articles that have appeared in Town & Country, Vogue, Glamour, American Heritage, Ebony, Essence, Avenue, and Travel and Leisure.

From 2003 to 2006, Fales-Hill served as an elected director of the Harvard Alumni Association, and from 2003 to 2010 as a member of Harvard University’s Committee on University Resources. She also served on the boards of the Studio Museum of Harlem and the American Ballet Theatre. From 2004 to 2007, Fales-Hill co-chaired the American Ballet Theatre Spring Gala.

Fales-Hill has also received many honors and awards. Under her leadership, A Different World was nominated for the prestigious Humanitas Award. The episode she wrote on AIDS, "If I Should Die Before I Wake," received the 1991 Maggie Award from Planned Parenthood, the 13th Annual Media Access Award from the California Governor's Committee for Employment of Disabled Persons, and the Nancy Susan Reynolds Award. Fales-Hill has also received the the Producer’s Guild of America’s Nova award, a “Special Recognition Award” from the Friends of the Black Emmys, and the Excellence and Heritage Award from Dillard University. In 2001, she was named to the International Best Dressed List Hall of Fame.

Susan Fales-Hill was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 13, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.321

Sex

Female

Interview Date

12/13/2013

Last Name

Fales-Hill

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Harvard University

Lycee Francais de New York

First Name

Susan

Birth City, State, Country

Rome

HM ID

FAL01

Favorite Season

Spring

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France

Favorite Quote

Tomorrow Is Another Day.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

8/15/1962

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

Italy

Favorite Food

Bread

Short Description

Television producer Susan Fales-Hill (1962 - ) was a writer on the Cosby Show and A Different World; executive producer of Can’t Hurry Love and Kirk; and co-creator of the Showtime original series Linc’s. She also authored three books: Always Wear Joy: My Mother Bold and Beautiful, One Flight Up and Imperfect Bliss.

Employment

NBC

CBS

Warner Brothers

Showtime

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Susan Fales-Hill's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her Haitian heritage

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her father's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her father's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her father's heritage

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the social scene of her parents' youth

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her early home on the Upper West Side of New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the sights sound and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls her early household

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her everyday routine as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her interests and pursuits as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls attending Lycee Francais de New York in New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her early understanding of racism, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her early understanding of racism, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the role of racial discussion in mixed race homes

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her parents' emphasis on embracing racial and ethnic identity

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls the role of race in her early life

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the struggles of successful African American actresses

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls the importance of etiquette in her early years

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about the selfie controversy at Nelson Mandela's funeral

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls childhood visits to her paternal grandparents

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her paternal grandmother

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her favorite subjects in school

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers being accepted to Harvard University in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls her classmates at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her first impression of Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls how she was treated by her fellow Harvard University classmates

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers working for the Legal Aid Society in New York City

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her work during her summers in college

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her major at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her father's affair

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls meeting Bill Cosby

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers working with 'The Cosby Show' writing team

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the work environment in the writing room

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls her family's sense of humor

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about television consultant Dr. Alvin Poussaint

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her experiences on the writing staff of 'The Cosby Show'

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the characters in 'A Different World'

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about the creation of 'A Different World'

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls writing the character Whitley Gilbert

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers advice from Diahann Carroll

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls her mother's response to her work

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her favorite episodes of 'A Different World'

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about life in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls the camaraderie on the set of 'A Different World'

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers the cancellation of 'A Different World'

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers working on the television show 'Can't Hurry Love'

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls shooting the pilot episode of 'Kirk' in Paris, France

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about black television series in the 1990s

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill recalls working on the television series 'Linc's'

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her decision to leave the entertainment business

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her transition from television production to novel writing

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her process in writing 'Always Wear Joy'

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers how she chose her novel topics

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her writing process

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Susan Fales-Hill describes the themes in her novel 'Imperfect Bliss'

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Susan Fales-Hill remembers her work with arts and culture organizations in New York City

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her views about her community involvement

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Susan Fales-Hill reflects upon her life

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Susan Fales-Hill talks about her future aspirations

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Susan Fales-Hill describes her hopes for the entertainment industry

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Susan Fales-Hill reflects upon her legacy

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$6

DAStory

7$2

DATitle
Susan Fales-Hill describes her father's family background, pt. 2
Susan Fales-Hill recalls shooting the pilot episode of 'Kirk' in Paris, France
Transcript
And, when my father [Timothy Fales] started seeing my mother [Josephine Premice] and, you know, was going to marry her, my grandfather [DeCoursey Fales, Sr.] was not pleased. My grandmother [Dorothy Mitchell Fales] said, "I'm gonna meet her, and make my own decisions." And, this was a woman who, I mean, she was from--when people watched 'Downton Abbey' she was from the American equivalent of that. People think of the American equivalent of that as, you know, Newport [Rhode Island] and that's not it. Those were the more sort of to be, blunt, nouveau [nouveau riche] Haiti people. It was more of the people that you read about in 'The Age of Innocence,' the Edith Wharton novels; the old, old families. That's really the equivalent in terms of the mentality and the lifestyle. They went fox hunting. It was, anyway, so, she didn't even have black help. And, certainly, she was from a very class bound caste. And, so, she met mother, she took her to lunch at the Colony Club [New York, New York], down the street here (laughter). Where I think that they--I don't think they had black help there either. They're probably Irish ladies who probably dropped their trays in the shock. But, she liked my mother and that was that. And, my parents moved to Italy when they first got married because they experienced so much backlash and hatred. And, father lost his job, and name expunged from the Social Register, and they were getting hate mail. Their parents were getting hate mail. My grandmother interestingly, again, with a sense of history kept all the hate mail she got. Even the letters from illiterate people in the South. Every single piece of mail. Ugly letters from friends, mentioned friends who wrote her letters of condolence when my father married my mother. And, she kept it all. And, it's all in the family archive. I'm grateful to her for that when I wrote my book about my mother ['Always Wear Joy: My Mother Bold and Beautiful,' Susan Fales-Hill], I saw all of this for the first time. And, again, I thought how remarkable for someone to be aware that this was worthy of being kept. That it was important. That it would be a fascinating artifact, happily (laughter). This is not the--what the reaction would be today, probably. So, and then, when my parents moved, my grandmother would come and see us in Italy when we were living there. And, then when we came back when I was two, my grandfather finally said, "All right, what am I doing?" (Laughter), "I'm gonna get myself together," and so he embraced us. And, the rest of the family had always--part of them felt, well, the poor children. I mean, the usual attitude to all those tragic mulattos, they'll never fit in anywhere (laughter). They're gonna be, you know, like Pinky [Pinky Johnson] (laughter). So, but, they never harbored any resentment and actually a member of the Chubb family, you know the famous insurance, only they're old friends of my father's family. And, I was working on a project in Hollywood and one of them was working out there and we were on the phone and I said, "Oh, I think our families know each other." And, he said to me, "Yes, when I saw your name, I asked." And then, I can tell he, he didn't, he didn't wanna say, but he didn't, he said, "But, then I--I didn't think you would be related." And, it was obvious 'cause I was black. So, we met and he--took him a long time to sort of process, you know. So, your father married your mother and then finally he looked at me and he said, "Oh, but then again, your family was so ancient, they could afford it." And, it was almost like, they could afford the blow (laughter). You know what, a more social climbing family who were trying to establish themselves, who didn't have this history wouldn't've been able to (air quotes) afford (laughter) the blow to their status of having black relatives. But, you know, it was like you're old nobility so you can, you know, you just get absorbed in it. It was very funny. It was such an interesting reflection. So, anyway, it's all, for me more than anything, historically fascinating. And, you know, when I read an Edith Wharton novel, that's, that's, my father's family's world. As again, particularly something like 'The Age of Innocence,' which really talks about that set, that, that came here in the 17th century. And, all associated together and had a certain noblesse oblige attitude. And, worshiped down at Grace Church [New York, New York], where my family still has a pew. And, so, I wanna meet Julian Fellowes, the createor of 'Downton Abbey,' 'cause I know he's doing again, the American version and I wanna say, "It's not Newport," (laughter). Go to Middleburg [Virginia]. Go to Gladstone, New Jersey [Peapack and Gladstone, New Jersey], that's, that's where you'll find the counterparts to the Crawleys.$Then you go with Warner Bro- [Warner Brothers Television], or?$$ Warner Brothers, exactly. I made a deal with Warner Brothers and I did Kirk Cameron's show ['Kirk'], which was a family oriented show. So, that I enjoyed more just because the messages were positive. It was a sweet little show. I can't even quite remember the premise. But, oh, and, we got to shoot our season opener in Paris [France], which was a blast. Because--$$You love Paris? You love Paris?$$ I love Paris and also they, they produced 'Family Matters;' the same company.$$I see.$$ And, so, they were gonna have these two characters get married. And, it was cheaper to go to Paris with the 'Family Matters' cast, who were already shooting over there and piggyback on all their stuff. Than it was to take Kirk Cameron and Chelsea Noble to Las Vegas [Nevada]. So, (laughter) we went to Paris. So, that was, I mean, to go a shoot on the streets of Paris, what greater experience is there? We had a hilarious incident where we were supposed to, they were supposed to do a scene where they were splashing around in the fountain. And, they had booked the Trocadero [Paris, France] and the fountain was being cleaned the day that they had booked. And, of course, you know, being French bureaucracy, there was no one at work, that person was on strike. So, it was like, how are we gonna do this fountain in a dry fountain? So, we're going around Paris trying to basically do a gorilla shoot 'cause we have no permit. And, we show up at one fountain in the 6th arrondissement, and of course a policeman comes along. And, he was African and I could tell he was Senegalese. So, I started speaking to him in French. And, I said, "You're Senegalese aren't you?" And, he said, "Yes." And, I said, "So, am I. I'm half Senegalese." And, so, I'm chatting and chatting and meanwhile they get to get this shot. (Laughter) But then I--$$(Laughter) They got, they got the shot (simultaneous)?$$ (Simultaneous) They got the shot. They got the shot (laughter). Anyway, it was, it was hysterical.$$(Laughter) That's--that's cute itself.

Carol Sutton Lewis

Civic leader and attorney Carol Sutton Lewis was born on September 26, 1959 in New York City, New York. Her mother, Renee Sutton, was a public school teacher; her father, Oliver Sutton, was a judge and businessman. Lewis graduated from the High School of Music and Art in New York, now Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School, in 1976. She went on to receive her B.A. degree in English from the University of Pennsylvania in 1980, and her J.D. degree from Stanford Law School in 1983.

Upon being admitted to practice law, Lewis was hired as an associate at the law firm of Dow, Lohnes & Albertson in 1983. She worked there until 1987, when she was hired as an associate at the Apollo Theatre. After a brief stint at the Apollo Theatre, Sutton Lewis worked at Home Box Office from 1987 until 1989 before being hired as an associate in business development at WTTW Chicago, where she remained until 1992. In 2011, Lewis launched, and began writing for, the website entitled Ground Control Parenting, a blog designed for parents of children of color with a particular focus on issues affecting boys. She and her husband, William M. Lewis, founded the Carol Sutton Lewis and William M Lewis, Jr. Charitable Foundation, which she manages.

Lewis has served on the boards of several educational organizations, including WNET.org, Alvin Ailey Dance Foundation, East Harlem Tutorial Program, Harlem School of the Arts, and Early Steps, an organization devoted to increasing the presence of students of color in New York City private schools. Since 1998, she has served on the board of directors of the Studio Museum in Harlem, where she eventually became vice chairman of the board. In 2008, Lewis was elected to Stanford Law School’s board of trustees, and, in 2010, she began serving as a board member of the Collegiate School. Lewis was also elected a board member of the Foundation for Art and Preservation in Embassies in 2011. She has also been honored by receiving the Humanitarian Award for Leadership in Education from the National Urban Technology Center.

Lewis lives with her husband in New York City. They have three children: Tyler, Carter and Andrew.

Carol Sutton Lewis was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on October 22, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.272

Sex

Female

Interview Date

10/22/2013

Last Name

Lewis

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Sutton

Schools

Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts

University of Pennsylvania

Stanford Law School

Ps 116 Mary Lindley Murray School

First Name

Carol

Birth City, State, Country

New York

HM ID

SUT02

Favorite Season

Fall

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France

Favorite Quote

That And Fifty Cents Will Get You On The Subway.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

9/26/1959

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Asian Food

Short Description

Civic leader and education advisor Carol Sutton Lewis (1959 - ) , founder of Ground Control Parenting, has served on the boards of WNET.org, Early Steps, Stanford Law School, the Collegiate School, the Foundation for Art and Preservation in Embassies, and the Studio Museum in Harlem.

Employment

Dow Lohnes and Albertson

Apollo Theater

Home Box Office

WTTV TV

Ground Control Parenting

Favorite Color

Red

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Carol Sutton Lewis' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her uncle, John Sutton

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her paternal grandfather, Samuel Sutton

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about the education of her father's siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers her father's desire for her to attend Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis recounts her family's move to Harlem, New York where her father had a law practice with his brother

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her uncles, Percy and Bill Sutton

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her father's upbringing with twelve siblings in San Antonio, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about the Sutton family in San Antonio, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her mother, Renee Hopkins Sutton

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her mother's West Indian heritage

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes how her parents met, pt.1

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes how her parents met, pt.2

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers her father's promise to pay for her college education

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers the opportunities afforded her by her parents including a trip to the South of France

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her family's political activity

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks explains why she did not attend private school

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers learning to read at an early age

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her third grade teacher, Portia Paterson

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her cultural education in New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers picketing with her parents in Rochdale Village in New York City as a young girl

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her religious background

Tape: 2 Story: 15 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her grade school years

Tape: 2 Story: 16 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her father's early years as a judge in Manhattan, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her experience at P.S. 116

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis recounts the academic challenges of her older brother, Paul Sutton

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her half-brother, Oliver Sutton, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers family vacations and road trips as a child

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls the fear she felt after being pulled over by a white policeman in Johannesburg shortly after the end of apartheid

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her memories of Christmas as a child

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her father's law practice

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her political activism as a child

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers attending Attallah Shabazz's birthday party after the assassination of Malcolm X

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her family's associations with the Kennedys and President Lyndon B. Johnson

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about the political activism of her father and her uncle, Percy Sutton

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers adapting to a new environment after moving from Queens to New York City's Harlem neighborhood

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about attending the High School of Music & Art in New York City, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her experience at the High School for Music & Art in New York City, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls her mother's love of teaching

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes seeing her third grade teacher, Portia Paterson

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes New York City in the 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis compares her experience of Jack and Jill of America in Queens and Manhattan, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis describe the privilege the Sutton family name has afforded her throughout her life

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her affinity for English and the humanities

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls her decision to become a lawyer

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her college application process

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her experience at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls Ralph Smith's encouragement for her to become a lawyer despite a white professor's attempts to dissuade her

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her decision to attend Stanford Law School in Stanford, California

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her experience at Stanford Law School in Stanford, California

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls watching one of her father's court cases

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her summer internships while at Stanford Law School and her desire to work for the FCC

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls losing interest in the law after her father's death

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers her father's death and taking the bar examination soon afterward

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about working at Dow Lohnes & Albertson after law school

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis remembers meeting her future husband, HistoryMaker William Lewis, and deciding to return to New York

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about working for her uncle, Percy Sutton, at the Apollo Theatre and his refusal to let her join the family business

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her disappointment after her uncle, Percy Sutton, refused to let her join the family business

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about leaving a job she loved at HBO in New York City to move to Chicago with her future husband, HistoryMaker William Lewis

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes her experience living in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about starting a production company in Chicago, Illinois with Royal Kennedy

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about working at WTTW

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her investment in the development of her three children

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis recalls becoming involved with the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her initial work on the board of the Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis describes the birth of the Studio Museum in Harlem's annual fundraising gala

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about the Studio Museum in Harlem's annual gala in the wake of 9/11

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about state of the Studio Museum of Harlem

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her commitment to Harlem and changes in the neighborhood

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her next steps

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her children's education

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her parenting blog, Ground Control Parenting, pt.1

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her parenting blog, Ground Control Parenting, pt.2

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her parenting blog, Ground Control Parenting, pt.3

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about her marriage

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Carol Sutton Lewis talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Carol Sutton Lewis reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Carol Sutton Lewis narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$5

DAStory

7$11

DATitle
Carol Sutton Lewis remembers her father's desire for her to attend Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia
Carol Sutton Lewis talks about leaving a job she loved at HBO in New York City to move to Chicago with her future husband, HistoryMaker William Lewis
Transcript
But the funny story about their emphasis on education, and how it translated into my life is that my father [Oliver Sutton] decided, based on his family--two things: He decided where I was going to school and what I was going to do. He decided--and this always when I was very young (laughter) before, before I am--I am sure when I was five, he decided these things. He decided that I was going to go to Spelman [College, Atlanta, Georgia] because either a sister had gone to Spelman, or no one had gone to Spelman, but Spelman was a school that I should go to. And he decided that I should be a doctor because his sister, Carrie [Jane Sutton], had been a doctor, and there was time for another doctor in the family. Well, when I was twelve, he took--we went, we used to drive a lot from San Antonio [Texas], from New York to San Antonio. We would make road trips in the summer time. And on one road trip, we stopped in Atlanta [Georgia], and he showed me Spelman University. The purpose of this particular stop was to show me the university to which I, I would--it's a college, university? But he would show where I was going to college. My, my--11, 10, 12-year-old recollection of this, when I got out of the car, I, you know, it's sort of like, I can see it, like a scene from a movie in my mind. I got out of the car, and the tumbleweed blew by. And the sun beat down on me as this tumbleweed, and I didn't even know what a tumbleweed was, but some big dust ball blew by. It was very dusty. It was extremely hot. I saw the gates of this university, you know, the black gates, and I thought, there is no way, whatever this is (laughter). I'm in a prison in (laughter), and a hair dryer--it's really hot, it's a prison. I'm not going there (laughter). And I--what I, I, I, so it's like, thanks, daddy, this is great. I mean, we didn't do a tour. He just sort of showed me. He's like, this is Spelman, this is where you'll be going to college (laughter). And so, I said, great, daddy--got back in the car and thought, okay, I know one thing (laughter), I don't know anything this place, but I'm not going here (laughter). And so, I mean, no disrespect to Spelman. I had no clue. But it was a real hint in terms of parenting--do not take your child to the college you want them to attend when they are twelve in the middle of the summer if it's in the South. So, that was a bad move on my father's part, but I understood his desire. I mean, I don't want to paint him into the--I, I don't want to paint a picture of him of a guy that tried to dictate things. I mean, he did actually try to dictate things, but he knew enough (laughter). He was a smart enough guy to understand that he could, he could voice his opinion, but he wasn't--there was no, there was no desire to sort of make me do something that I didn't want to do. I mean, for example, when I decided to go to the University of Pennsylvania [Philadelphia, Pennsylvania], he was completely and fully supportive, and there was no talk of, go or I'll say--I mean, something like that. He just, he wanted me to be happy.$$Right.$$But he figured, since he could probably figure that out me if I couldn't figure out for myself (laughter). Why not tell me what I should do.$$He had dreams.$$He had dreams.$$But, but the important part of that story, I think, it leads towards my family's emphasis in education. I mean, at twelve, he was telling me. I've always said that in my family, it really wasn't a question. It was never a question of are you going to college. It was a question of, okay, where you're to grad-, what are you going to do? You're going to college. You probably should go to graduate school. You probably think about what that is. And so, it was a presumption and expectation that, that it was, that was what would happen. My father would say to me when I was really young--$So, what, what happens next for you?$$Then I went to HBO, and they made a great job for me because I had a friend from college actually who was working in the HR. And they developed this--it, it wasn't just for me, but they were in the process of developing it. And I was the person that did it first--a, a program that took you through various departments of HBO. And so, I started out in business affairs which made sense because I was a lawyer. And then I went on to original programming. And it was there that I felt out, aha, the sun, like the, aha moment, like I really want to be in the making of TV. And I wanted to do a little bit of the negotiating, I wanted to be in the world of how to create a television show. And what better place than HBO that had subscriber money up the wazoo, and nobody to answer to in terms of critics or--not critics, but ratings. Because at that time, they just had all that money from the movies and they could just put on shows, so I was--it was thrilling. And so, I was very, very happy there. And that would have been the end of my story except that then, I was with my then-boyfriend, Bill [HM William Lewis] who--Morgan Stanley, the company for which he worked--gave him an offer he couldn't refuse to move to Chicago [Illinois] to run the Chicago investment banking office. And I had to face the question of what I would do. We were not engaged, but we had been going out for a while, and it was kind of heading in that direction. So what I made clear to Bill is that I'm not going to Chicago (laughter), I'm not going to Chicago as your girlfriend, so let's be clear. So then, he asked me to marry him. Then I thought, okay, well, I'll stay in New York and stay in my dream job, and I'll just be married to a guy that lives in Chicago. That didn't--I decided that, but he wasn't all that thrilled with that as a concept, like we're going to get married, and you're going to live here, and I'm going to live there? It would have made sense if I was running something in HBO, but it was--I was only there for a year. So, I had the unenviable--the decision was actually relatively easy to make. And I made it on this basis. What are the odds of me running HBO because that would be my, you know, it's like two paths. What are the odds of really, of great happiness in either one? If I ran HBO, that would make me really happy 'cause I love this company. What are the odds? And if I marry this guy and it works out, that would make me really happy, and what are the odds? And I looked at the structure of HBO, and there was already a ceiling with all these faces smooshed up against it because everybody who loved working at that company stayed there forever. And the guy--there was, the executive suite was filled with people who were waiting for their turn. And I was just what--twenty-something? So, the odds of me--I couldn't see the path where I could just blow through, and I was going to be at the top. It was going to take a long time, and I was going to have a lot of competition, and I couldn't see it. Maybe it would--if I had worked there for more years, I could see it, but I couldn't see it at that time. So that seemed like, although it was a great dream, that that was not going to happen any time soon, and if it happens at all. And, and on the flip side is if I don't, if I--by giving up the other one, how unhappy will I be? Like, if I don't make it to the top of HBO, how devastated--and I'm happily married, how devastated will that be? And if I am--if I don't get married or in the, how does that work (laughter), if I, but I, I, which would--how worse was the downside? If I stayed at HBO, I make it to the top, and this was the guy for me in life, and I miss that out, you know, is it worse to be in a very good position in my life, marriage-wise, or sort of outside of work-wise, and not good with work, or really good with work? And I figured, you know, how do I make decision? And I decided that, you know, what, I'm not going to run HBO--at least I don't know how, so that should not be the reason that I don't get married because if I had a clear path, maybe I would think that would--but I got to be realistic. I'm not even sure, you know, so.$$So, what date was the marriage? What--$$May, May 7, 1988. The interesting thing was I made that decision relatively quickly. I mean, because I could sort of--even though I am not known to be the most decisive person, there were the big issues. And I could sort of sort through, and then I made it instantly. Telling people was really difficult. I truly felt--I had all these women bosses, and I felt like I was really letting everybody down and myself to some degree. I felt like I was--how could I, after all this, I'd finally gotten to the job that I really wanted. And I sobbed--I couldn't see the pathway to the presidency, but I could see like I can flourish, and I had to give it up. I was really not happy about that, about saying that. I meant, I decided it, I was not happy about saying that. And it was hard to tell people. And I felt, and I'll never forget, that the guy that was running HBO at the time--Michael Fuchs said to me, how romantic, you're giving up your career for love. And if I could have been able to hit him, and not have been arrested, I really would have--and lose the job, did I still have a job? I was so angry that he had verbalized my greatest fear of the perception of what I was doing. It's like, no, I am not doing that. In fact, I worked for HBO in Chicago [Illinois], but it was some marketing position 'cause they didn't have production there. So that was, it was tough. It was a good life lesson though. It was sort of like--I mean, you know.$$But you gained a great life.$$I got a great life (laughter), you know. But that, it just tells you, you know, it's not easy. You have tough decisions in life because you know, I, I have, I, I had a great life, I have a great life. It was not the one that I perceived. I mean, and I don't know what would have happened if I had stayed at HBO. And, but it was interesting to have to make that decision--$$Right.$$--to stay, to, to like--rarely does it like face you like that, you know. Had I been married for a while, it might have been different. Had I been at HBO for a while, it might have been different. But I was sort at the beginning of both things, so.

Raymond J. McGuire

Investment banker Raymond J. McGuire was born on January 23, 1957, in Dayton, Ohio. After graduating from the Hotchkiss School in 1975, McGuire enrolled in Harvard University. He went on to graduate from Harvard College cum laude with his A.B. degree in English in 1979. McGuire was awarded a Rotary Fellowship to attend the University of Nice in France in 1980. In 1984, McGuire graduated from Harvard Business School with his M.B.A. degree and from Harvard Law School with his J.D. degree.

McGuire began his career in the mergers and acquisitions department at First Boston Corporation. In 1988, when Joseph R. Perella and Bruce Wasserstein, top officers at First Boston Corporation, left to start their own firm, McGuire went with them. At Wasserstein Perella & Co., McGuire played a key role in many transactions, including Pitney Bowes, Inc.’s acquisition of Ameriscribe. He served as a partner and managing director at Wasserstein Perella & Co. from 1991 to 1994, and then became the managing director of mergers & acquisitions at Merrill Lynch Investment, Inc. In 2000, McGuire was appointed as the the global co-head of mergers & acquisitions at Morgan Stanley where he advised the $19.8 billion sale of Nabisco Holdings to the Philip Morris Company and Pfizer’s sale of its Schick Wilkinson Sword business to Energizer for $930 million in 2003. In 2005, McGuire left Morgan Stanley and was appointed as the co-head of investment banking at Citigroup Corporate and Investment Banking. He became the head of global banking in 2009. While there, McGuire managed more than two thousand employees and advised business mergers and acquisitions valued at more than $200 billion, such as Time Warner, Inc.’s $45 billion separation from Time Warner Cable.

McGuire was named chairman of the board of the Studio Museum in Harlem and vice chairman of the board and investment committee chairman of the Whitney Museum of American Art. He also served on the executive committee of the International Center of Photography, as a trustee of the Lincoln Center and chairman of the board of the De La Salle Academy, and as a member of the board of the Mayor’s Cultural Affairs Advisory Committee for the City of New York. In addition, he served as a trustee of New York-Presbyterian Hospital. For Harvard University, he has served as a member of the Overseers and Directors Nominating Committee.

In 2002, Black Enterprise magazine named McGuire one of the “Top 50 African Americans on Wall Street.” He has also received the Alumni Professional Achievement Award from the Harvard Business School, and was named a Distinguished Patron of the Arts by the Pratt Institute.

Raymond J. McGuire was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 24, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.195

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/12/2013

Last Name

McGuire

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Jeffrey

Occupation
Schools

Harvard University

Harvard Business School

Harvard Law School

University of Nice

First Name

Raymond

Birth City, State, Country

Youngstown

HM ID

MCG06

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Ohio

Favorite Vacation Destination

Saint Barthelemy

Favorite Quote

Hold Fast To Dreams, For If Dreams Die, Life Is A Broken Winged Bird That Cannot Fly, Hold Fast To Dreams, For If Dreams Go, Life Is A Barren Field, Frozen With Snow.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

1/23/1957

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Turkey Burgers

Short Description

Investment banker Raymond J. McGuire (1957 - ) is an alumnus of Harvard University and Harvard Law School. He worked in mergers and acquisitions at First Boston Corporation, Merrill Lynch, and Morgan Stanley, and serves as head of Global Banking at Citigroup where he advises on deals valued at more than $200 billion.

Employment

First Boston Corporation

Wasserstein Perella & Co.

Merrill Lynch

Morgan Stanley

Citigroup

Favorite Color

Blue, Brown

Timing Pairs
0,0:1321,25:3949,105:5482,149:7015,181:8694,320:9278,330:10373,349:11030,361:11687,371:12052,377:14388,442:18695,547:18987,552:19571,564:19936,570:26220,580:27496,594:28076,600:34636,719:35788,742:36148,748:39172,791:40468,820:40828,826:42484,869:49334,911:49802,918:55418,1023:59522,1058:65435,1203:73390,1301:73873,1314:80680,1368:84220,1468:84700,1477:89340,1531:90940,1538:91240,1543:92515,1591:96952,1655:98584,1700:99690,1709$0,0:228,52:12610,161:18817,189:25630,274:28318,290:28814,329:37232,449:37576,454:37920,459:38350,465:39038,475:45729,543:46134,549:46458,577:48645,659:66104,841:66489,847:67336,859:70647,915:80496,1053:81562,1066:82464,1078:82874,1084:83530,1098:83858,1103:84186,1108:84842,1118:99612,1281:103476,1323:105028,1380:105998,1392:106386,1397:111800,1421:136780,1740:137076,1746:140515,1755:145012,1819:146516,1835:170370,2110:170740,2116:175818,2177:177213,2196:178980,2226:181677,2301:193302,2407:197020,2443:198196,2456:204046,2503:207355,2549:207853,2557:213695,2630:217230,2695
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Raymond McGuire's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about his maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire talks about his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire describes his earliest childhood memories in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire describes his community in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Raymond McGuire talks about his age difference with his older brothers

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Raymond McGuire talks about growing up in the Bethel Church of God in Christ

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Raymond McGuire continues to describe his community in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Raymond McGuire describes his childhood personality

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Raymond McGuire talks about his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Raymond McGuire describes his earliest memories of grade school

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Raymond McGuire talks about differences between his academic environment and home environment

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Raymond McGuire talks about attending The Miami Valley School in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Raymond McGuire talks about his first jobs in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire describes the student demographic at Miami Valley School in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about people he looked up to as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire talks about interviewing for and attending the Hotchkiss School in Lakeville, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire describes student style at the Hotchkiss School in Lakeville, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire talks about his friendship with Michael Carroll

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Raymond McGuire talks about Miami Valley School in Dayton, Ohio and at the Hotchkiss School in Lakeville, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Raymond McGuire talks about deciding to attend Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Raymond McGuire talks about a prank he took part in at the Hotchkiss School in Lakeville, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Raymond McGuire talks about his high school interest in literature and basketball

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Raymond McGuire recalls his graduation from the Hotchkiss School in Lakeville, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Raymond McGuire describes his first year as an undergraduate student at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Raymond McGuire talks about his experience as an undergraduate at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire talks about the political community at The John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about the athletic community at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts and playing basketball for the Crimson Classics

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire talks about the private club community at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts and his membership to the Owl Club

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire talks about his membership to the Owl Club at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire talks about his racial experiences in his life from Dayton, Ohio to Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Raymond McGuire talks about experiencing racism while studying abroad in Europe

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Raymond McGuire talks about the Owl Club and other communities at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Raymond McGuire talks about the African American Cultural Center at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Raymond McGuire talks about studying literature at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Raymond McGuire talks about studying abroad at The Nice Sophia Antipolis University in Nice, France

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire talks about being admitted to Harvard University's dual degree program for law school and business school

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about his graduate studies at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts and his summer internships

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire reflects on adjusting the Harvard Business School in Boston, Massachusetts and the Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire talks about taking a summer internship at First Boston

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire talks about his education at the Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Raymond McGuire talks about taking two internships in one summer

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Raymond McGuire talks about earning his graduate degrees and receiving job offers

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Raymond McGuire talks about First Boston, Joseph Perella, and Bruce Wasserstein

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Raymond McGuire recalls being interviewed for a position at First Boston

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Raymond McGuire talks about working at First Boston after graduating from Harvard Law School and Harvard Business School

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Raymond McGuire describes mergers and acquisitions work

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Raymond McGuire talks about the creation of Wasserstein Perella & Co.

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire talks about deciding to leave First Boston to work at Wasserstein Perella & Co.

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about his roles and duties at Wasserstein Perella & Co.

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire explains why Joseph Perella left Wasserstein Perella & Co. in 1993

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire explains why he left Wasserstein Perella & Co. and joined Merrill Lynch Wealth Management

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire talks about managing a business deal with Nabisco and R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Raymond McGuire talks about taking Fort Howard Paper Company private and the slowdown in mergers and acquisitions in the early 1990s

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Raymond McGuire talks about the importance of Japanese investors to mergers and acquisitions

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Raymond McGuire talks about working with the Unilever Group on mergers and acquisitions deals

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Raymond McGuire talks about how mergers and acquisitions deals are executed

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Raymond McGuire talks about advice he gave during leadership changes at Morgan Stanley

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Raymond McGuire talks about the changes in leadership at Morgan Stanley in the mid-2000s

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire talks about leaving Morgan Stanley for Citigroup in 2005

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about Franklin A. Thomas

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire talks about opportunities at Citigroup

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire talks about working through crises

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire talks about handling the sale of Wyeth pharmaceutical company to Pfizer Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Raymond McGuire talks about the effect of the 2007 economic crisis

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Raymond McGuire ranks international regions by market size and economic influence

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Raymond McGuire talks about his work for Citigroup and its development during his tenure

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Raymond McGuire talks about his art-collecting

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Raymond McGuire talks about creative organizations and artists he supports

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Raymond McGuire reflects over his life

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Raymond McGuire talks about his son and describes what he envisions for his future

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Raymond McGuire describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Raymond McGuire considers what he may have done differently

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Raymond McGuire considers his legacy

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$5

DAStory

2$6

DATitle
Raymond McGuire talks about the political community at The John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts
Raymond McGuire talks about managing a business deal with Nabisco and R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company
Transcript
So the other communities that you mentioned--$$Mm-hmm.$$So what were some of the other communities? You mentioned the athletics--$$(Unclear) to the politics as an example.$$Okay.$$This is at the Kennedy School [The John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts]. And this is one where you were introduced to some of the country's great politicians. Dutch Morial [Ernest Nathan Morial] I can remember back, the great mayor of New Orleans [Lousiana]. And when, when Dutch came, this is, remember this is a time when you're first getting a number of, of black mayors.$$That's right$$And so to get exposed to that in the world of politics was, was, we actually could see in a way that, in a world where black representation had been denied for all the reasons that we know, to see these people who had been able to, to, to get to that level, to command the respect of the voting population to get them to that level was, was, it was encouraging. It was up lifting. It was certainly inspiring. So you would see these politicians, you can, then you'd go and you go to debate but that was part of the political process. At least you are at a much junior level at that level at the, at the college you thought you were actually practicing. So it is a, it was a world of, of politics and, and governance and government. And for people who aspired to be in public service, who wanted to be in government service that was a great training ground for that. And many of them have gone on to do that. Many people who weren't part of that have gone on to become part of that as well but many of them have gone on to do that. That's, that was kind of the intro to politics.$Okay, so let me ask you, during this period of time what deals are you most proud of that you did?$$The, the Nabisco transaction was a big deal.$$And that, that deal was--$$Carl Icahn went after Nabisco.$$Mm-hmm.$$And I was the lead M&A [mergers and acquisitions] banker on that deal.$$And that deal was of, almost a $15 billion deal.$$It was probably $15 billion, something along that line.$$Yeah, right.$$It was a big deal.$$On that line. And is this your first time in a deal where Carl Icahn is involved? 'Cause he was, is it, is it the first time?$$I'm thinking through that, Carl, there had been other instances I think where I was probably something that Carl did but directly, where Carl is directly on the other side and I'm associated, this is probably the first one.$$Okay. And the person heading up of, you know, what, what I found interesting because this, you do a similar deal later than this but with, 'cause you work on another Philip Morris later, right?$$Yeah, that's, that's--$$That's much later.$$Yes.$$Okay. But, but the thing that I found interesting about this, can you just talk about the nature of what Nabisco, why the Philip Morris and Nabisco deal made sense at the time, and who was trying to do what? Can you talk a little bit about that?$$Yeah this, this goes on, if, if I remember the facts correctly, RJR [R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company] and Nabisco had been under the overall, back when the big deal was done, the, the take private deal back in the '80s [1980s] I guess it was, large leverage buy out. And we split the, the tobacco up from the food company. The reason it got to be so complex is because the heavy tax implications for selling the food business prematurely. And the reason, the way that, that the deal evolved was because there was an outsider who came in, who instigated a, a transaction in the form of Carl Icahn. The rules didn't apply to the sale of the food business. And we eventually ran an auction for the sale of the food business, for the sale of the Nabisco business. And Philip Morris bought it, great strategic deal for them. We got a great price for the Nabisco shareholders. Carl made off well, his investors made off well. And we eventually left with the, the RJR business was primarily a cash business. It had a lot of cash on its balance sheet. It was, was and was a good business, sort of backup business from a cash flow generating standpoint. And we will successfully sell the business to, to, to the Philip Morris people. And they ran it well and then it got sold or spun off.$$So was the use of an auction, had you used that before and--$$Sure.$$Okay. So there are lots of-$$Yeah, it's a public auction.

Sandra Marian Ann Grymes

Born in 1938 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Grymes was the daughter of Jeanette and Leon Grymes. On her mother’s side of the family, Grymes was a cousin to the famed and legendary singer Marian Anderson; Grymes and Anderson’s nephew, James DePriest, have been involved with legacy work for the singer for over thirty years.

Grymes graduated from Philadelphia High School for Girls in 1956; she earned her A.B. degree in sociology from Temple University; her master’s degree in social services from Bryn Mawr in 1962; and her master’s degree in business administration from Baruch College in 1984.

From 1973 to 1976, Grymes was employed in the New York City Department of Mental Health and Mental Retardation – first as a senior consultant and later as acting director of the department’s Office of Standards and Review. From 1977 to 1988, Grymes held five top level positions at the Planned Parenthood Federation of America in New York City, moving finally to the positions of director of long range planning, director of special projects, and, finally, marketing director. Grymes’s next position, held from 1988 to 1993, was as the manager of health services for the American Red Cross of Greater New York. From 1993 to 1995, Grymes was the senior deputy commissioner at the New York City Department of Mental Health, Mental Retardation, and Alcoholism Services. In 1996, Grymes became an adjunct professor in the Graduate School of Management and Urban Policy at the New School for Social Research in New York City.

Grymes devoted many years of service as a director of the Studio Museum in Harlem, the Chamber Music Society of the Lincoln Center, and the Marian Anderson Award in Philadelphia. With DePriest, Grymes helped to establish the Marian Anderson Memorial Center at the University of Pennsylvania Library. Throughout her career, Grymes worked extensively in high level management positions in the non-profit and government sectors in New York City throughout the period between 1973 and 1995; her volunteer work and contributions to arts organizations, visual and musical, are notable.

In a state of semi-retirement, dividing her time between Martha’s Vineyard and New York City, Grymes remained the managing director of Guided Solutions, which consulted with agencies such as the Puerto Rican Family Institute in New York and the Tuskegee Institute’s National Center for Bioethics on issues related to health care and education on the community level.

Accession Number

A2005.150

Sex

Female

Interview Date

6/23/2005

Last Name

Grymes

Maker Category
Middle Name

Marian Ann

Schools

Thaddeus Stevens Elementary School

Cooke Jay Ms

Philadelphia High School for Girls

Temple University

Bryn Mawr College

Baruch College

First Name

Sandra

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

GRY01

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Anywhere

Favorite Quote

Don't Take It Personally.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Martha's Vineyard

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Oatmeal Raisin Cookies

Short Description

Foundation executive Sandra Marian Ann Grymes ( - ) was the managing director of Guided Solutions, which consulted with agencies such as the Puerto Rican Family Institute in New York and the Tuskegee Institute’s National Center for Bioethics on issues related to health care and education on the community level.

Employment

Bryn Mawr College Child Study Institute

Urban League

NYU Child Study Center

Planned Parenthood Federation of America

New York City Department of Mental Health

American Red Cross of Greater New York

The New School for Social Research

Guided Solutions

Favorite Color

Red

Timing Pairs
0,0:1408,26:2112,77:9725,166:16950,263:20250,305:21450,322:24442,352:37615,509:44111,556:47069,607:47417,613:48635,631:48983,636:49940,649:52480,660:52948,669:55210,697:55522,702:55912,708:59822,734:70920,852:73335,882:76698,890:77181,899:78492,920:78768,925:79251,933:88078,1052:88606,1059:106594,1368:113594,1409:115966,1428:122042,1505:123218,1519:125962,1555:130078,1613:137330,1645:137852,1652:142898,1732:143333,1738:165597,2072:169055,2152:169419,2157:170056,2166:170420,2171:176820,2223$0,0:1566,21:4890,41:5430,48:10058,193:13832,256:20803,363:25986,425:30184,473:30913,489:34396,556:34801,562:37393,632:45438,795:47794,863:48706,881:53255,925:56812,955:74774,1177:75190,1182:88466,1300:100600,1489:101080,1500:101400,1505:105718,1565:106406,1576:110165,1637:111515,1673:111890,1679:112640,1690:113390,1705:114365,1719:114740,1725:117665,1781:129350,1899:129850,1905:130450,1912:136844,1973:141190,2049:141682,2061:144798,2115:149409,2153:149677,2158:150146,2166:156362,2258:157592,2333:176118,2536:176502,2543:177910,2588:178294,2595:178742,2604:179190,2613:181329,2621:185784,2697:190650,2759:204360,2972
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Sandra Marian Ann Grymes' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about her mother's education and career

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her mother's interests and career

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her relationship to singer Marian Anderson

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her father's personality and his career

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her maternal ancestry

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about her sister, Marcia Grymes

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about her cousin, conductor James DePreist

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her stepfather

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her cousin Marian Anderson

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls the Philadelphia neighborhood where she grew up

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes the sights and sounds of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls Thaddeus Stevens School of Practice

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her elementary school teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her aspirations as an elementary school student

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls Jay Cooke Junior High School

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes Philadelphia High School for Girls

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her early interest in psychology

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her family's holiday traditions

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her cousin Marian Anderson's homecomings

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her family's religious affiliations

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls working through college

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about attending Temple University

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes reflects upon African American studies at Temple University

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her interest in music and art in college

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her relationship with Marian Anderson

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about studying social work in graduate school

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her career in Berkeley, California

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her research at the New York University Child Study Center

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her work with Planned Parenthood Federation of America

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls working at Planned Parenthood's national office in the 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her career at Planned Parenthood Federation of America

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls deciding to pursue an M.B.A. degree

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls working at American Red Cross

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her deputy commissionership of the New York Department of Mental Health

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls working as a teacher and a consultutant

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about developing The Studio Museum in Harlem

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls attending ceremonies on behalf of her cousin Marian Anderson

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes talks about preserving Marian Anderson's legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes Marian Anderson's U.S. Postal Service stamp

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes reflects upon her life

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes reflects upon her trip to communist China in 1977

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes reflects upon her desire to travel and write

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Sandra Marian Ann Grymes narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

6$1

DATitle
Sandra Marian Ann Grymes describes her relationship to singer Marian Anderson
Sandra Marian Ann Grymes recalls her career in Berkeley, California
Transcript
What more can you tell me about her [Grymes' mother, Jeanette Hughes Grymes] mother, your maternal grandmother, Grace Anderson Hughes? Anything more you can tell us about her and her background? She was born in 1900?$$She was born in 1900, and she grew up in a family that struggled a great deal in the beginning of the century. She was part of the larger family that managed to give us Marian Anderson. So, she was Marian Anderson's first cousin. They grew up together in the same house. And they were always very close throughout their lives. And that was, of course, an interesting experience for them, because when they were children and teenagers, life was hard. And both of them had lost their fathers early. And their grandmother was very stern, let us say. And so that was hard for them to have this kind of stern grandmother who was around. Their mothers had to work in order to provide for them, so they weren't always around. And so their life was not--it was not easy.$$Let's make very clear right up front your relationship to Marian Anderson, to people who are going to listen to your life story. Just give us that relationship, and then we're going to be talking about Marian Anderson probably in latter parts of our discussion. But just give us a direct lineage now.$$Marian Anderson's father [John Berkley Anderson] and my grandmother's father were brothers. So that made them first cousins. So biologically, she is a cousin of mine. She is a--she can either be called a first cousin, second removed, or a second cousin, however one wants to look at the lineage. In our family, however, everybody, every adult family member who interacted with any child was called aunt or uncle, whether it was a blood relative or not. And so, in our family she was called Aunt Marian by everybody, all the children and all of our friends and everybody that lived on the block (laughter). So that's the way that, that went. But she was very close to our family, and we were all very close to her.$$Okay. Well, you have certainly played an important role in her life, and you continue to do that as you told me earlier. So we'll come back and talk about your ancestor, your relative, Marian Anderson.$So when you finished your degree for--in social work [from Bryn Mawr College, Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania], what was the next move? Where did you go?$$When I finished the degree, I stayed for one year in Philadelphia [Pennsylvania] working at the child study center, where I had trained. And that was a great experience, because it helped me consolidate what I had learned. And then a friend of mine invited me to come out to Berkeley [California] and live with her and her other roommate, because one of her roommates was getting married and they needed a third person to pay the bill, pay the rent. And I'd always wanted to go to California. I had wanted to go to UCLA [University of California, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California], but we could not afford for me to go 3,000 miles away to school. So my mother [Jeanette Hughes Grymes] quickly told me that that would not be possible. So when the chance came to go to California, I took it. And I gave up the apartment that I had in Philadelphia, said good-bye to all my boyfriends, and went to California with no job. Those were the days when I had my little Bryn Mawr degree, I could get a job anywhere. That was a good thing. And so I managed to get a job at an adoption agency, which was very interesting, because, you know, I learned that everybody gives up their children for adoption. You know, you could be married, single, old, young, whatever. And, there--then, of course, there--on the other side of that, there're people who want children and who want them desperately. And so I worked at that for a year. And then I went to work for the Urban League, the Bay Area Urban League. And that was my first experience working with a predominantly black institution. And so, that was good to have that in the beginning of my career to get some sense of what that was like. And I was fortunate working there in that one of the local school principals liked me. And he wanted me to come work with his students, so--and try to, you know, kind of be inspirational to these young people, who mostly stayed in that community and did not have much aspiration beyond that. And so I had this special program that I was doing for these young people. So that was a lot of fun. Plus, being at Berkeley [University of California, Berkeley, Berkeley, California] during those days, the heyday of the free speech movement, and so, Berkeley was jumping. Berkeley was amazing. And there were tons of protests. And, you know, we were all out there doing our thing. And the social life was fabulous. There were so many young people from all over the country socializing out there. So we would work hard during the week, and we would party like crazy on the weekends. And it was great fun. And that went on for two years when I decided that California was fun, but you know, it was a little too uninspiring, and I needed to be in New York [New York]. And so I returned to New York where I lived ever since.