Photography Professor

You've published your first two books--the groundbreaking bio-bibliographies of photographers that, I think, will be useful forever. Can you tell me a little bit about the shows that you're curating, and where you're curating them, and why you aren't including your own photography?$$Well, the shows--I started curating shows at the Schomburg Center [Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture, New York, New York], and then I was invited by [HistoryMaker] Mary Schmidt Campbell--she was then director of the Studio Museum in Harlem [New York, New York]; she's now the dean of the Tisch School of the Arts [Tisch School of the Arts, New York University, New York, New York]. But, I started--she asked if I was interested in different shows or different curating shows, and so I curated a show ['Harlem Heyday: The Photography of James Van Der Zee'] for her on Van- on, on James Van Der Zee, the works of James Van Der Zee and, and other photographers. But also, at the time, I was--at the time that I was interested in documenting Harlem [New York, New York] photographers, there were two--there were twin brother photographers, Morgan and Marvin Smith [Morgan Smith and Marvin Smith]; I met them in the paper, in looking at old magazines, that they were photographers, and then one day in 1981, they walked into the Schomburg Center, and I'm like, these are these guys that I'm seeing in the news in the '70s [1970s] and the '60s [1960s] when I was researching in the '70s [1970s]. But I knew their faces because they were, because they were twin brothers, that they, they were, they were beautiful men, and they were often photographed for ads. So, they walked in and I said, "You know, I've been looking for you all my life," (laughter) and they, and they--we kind of adopted each other, you know, as a family, really supportive of my work, and so I started including their work in shows. And then Moneta Sleet, Jr., who was an Ebony photographer, another person I just, just--I just fell in love with his work, cared about what he was doing, and had a chance to meet him and spent a lifetime, the rest of his life, working with him. And all of these older guys--Bert Andrews, who was a theater photographer, he, he had--he did a book called 'In the Shadow of the Great White Way' ['In the Shadow of the Great White Way: Images from the Black Theatre,' Bert Andrews], and his was about black theater--his photographs were about black theater, curated a show about his work ['Scenes from the 20th Century Stage: Black Theatre in Photographs']. So--and then I decided to kind of look at--my mission was to, you know, capture all of these guys and--who all adopted me, you know as, as either, you know, like this person is gonna just care about their work and keep working with them, and I continued--we'd often meet on dinner, lunch, breakfast; and then I met Ellis Haizlip, and Ellis Haizlip had a TV show called 'Soul!'. I remembered meeting Ellis and just said, "You're the person who introduced me to all of these people on television." So then Ellis became a mentor. So I had these great mentors that helped shape my visual interest and to encourage me to keep pushing to get these projects done, which I didn't get any grants; I didn't have any major grants for any of the projects that I worked on. I--there was one photographer that--I was really interested in doing a book, it was called J.P.--his name was J- James Presley Ball, and he was a daguerreotypist, working in the 1840s, died in 1905 [sic.] in, in Hawaii; he started in Cincinnati [Ohio] and so he traveled out west.$$Can I get you just to say that word again?$$James Presley Ball; he was a daguerreotypist.$$And what's a daguerreotype?$$It was one--it was the first photography; it was the first visual image in terms of the first photograph, but it was on a plate, and James Presley Ball was one of the early daguerreotypists.$Let's go back to sort of a timeline approach. So, you're curating shows and you start focusing on more contemporary photographers--$$Um-hm.$$And then what do you--do, do you get that grant that you applied to for the New York Library [New York Public Library, New York, New York]?$$For the J.P. Ball [James Presley Ball] book--$$Got it (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) So I, I, I received the grant for the J.P. Ball book ['J.P. Ball, Daguerrean and Studio Photographer,' Deborah Willis], and then in '92 [1992], I was offered a position at the Smithsonian [Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.] to help develop an African American museum on the Mall [National Mall, Washington, D.C.]. Claudine Brown [Claudine K. Brown] was working at the Smithsonian at the time; I had met Claudine years ago when she was at the Brooklyn Museum [New York, New York], and she asked if I would--if I was interested in working with her and helping to develop an African American museum on the Mall.$$But was there any African American museum in the Smithsonian system?$$There--the only--there was one, it was the Anacostia Museum [Anacostia Museum and Center for African American History and Culture; Anacostia Community Museum, Washington, D.C.], it was a neighborhood museum; and what Claudine and others wanted to do was to have a national African American museum that would collect nationally, and to focus on African American history and culture. I--at the same time, on my other side, a lot of my artist friends would say, "Deb [HistoryMaker Deborah Willis], you need to start showing your work, start getting your work out there; I'm gonna--," (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) It's been ten, fifteen years.$$"I'm gonna submit your work to a show." So then--the National Black Arts Festival is really popular in, in, in supporting artists and showing art work, and so I had a show at, at the '92 [1992] National's- National Black Arts Festival, and I showed a lot of the quilts, and it was Young Hughley--he had a gallery there [Young Hughley Gallery, Atlanta, Georgia], and Jane Jackson Gallery [Jackson Fine Art, Atlanta, Georgia]; so I showed my work at two galleries during this time, and so a lot of people had a chance to see my work on the other side, you know; not just the books, but now here's Deb's visual images are coming out. So, I started continuing working with my, my work as an artist. A lot of the work was sold at--there, so it was really encouraging. And, and then I moved to Washington [D.C.]. I--you know, it was really hard to leave Schomburg [Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture, New York, New York] and leave New York [New York] and--but I had another opportunity, and it just happened that way, and--$$Where did you move to?$$I moved to Washington to Southwest [Washington, D.C.], to the area near the water on G Street; is 277 G Street, Southwest. It was a great experience to, to have a different kind of local, walking to work and having to help develop a, a museum. And so--at the time, it was--Claudine hired--she hired me to work with collections, and another young woman, Jane Lusaka, to work with the publishing aspect of it. So, it just--worked as a small group, we--it was--we were very cautious, we shared a desk (laughter), we--you know, we worked together, and I traveled around the country looking at collections, and a lot of--a number of people believed in this idea of having an African American museum. We didn't pass through [U.S.] Congress one year, then Jesse Helms held it up another year, but we continued to work. And as a way to create a visibility, I worked with Claudine in, in developing a, a gallery in the Arts and Industry Building [Arts and Industries Building, Washington, D.C.] at the Smithsonian to create exhibitions, and one of the exhibitions that I created, one of the first exhibition was--it call--it was called--entitled 'Imagining Families: Images and Voices.' So, that was a way, I felt, with involve--bring people into the museum, into a museum space, and understanding how to collect--how to collect family images and what artists will do with family images, what we can do in terms of preserving the history. So it was a, a story about that, and so then I curated other shows for them, and just continued working at--another show was called 'Harlem and D.C. in the Thirties and Forties' ['Visual Journal: Harlem and D.C. in the Thirties and Forties'] and looking at [HistoryMaker] Gordon Parks and Morgan and Marvin Smith [Morgan Smith and Marvin Smith], and then a D.C. photographer, Robert MacNeil and the Scurlock Studios [sic. Scurlock Studio, Washington, D.C.]. So, looking at how important photography, photography studios were for, for two significant communities in, in America.