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Mary Shy Scott

The 23rd International President of Alpha Kappa Alpha (AKA) Sorority, Inc., Mary Shy Scott was born on July 19, 1930, in Atlanta, Georgia, to Robert Shy and Flora Spearman Shy. Under Scott’s leadership, the AKA Sorority initiated an international chapter in London, England; established a non-military memorial to World War II veterans; helped to encourage reading through a partnership with the Library of Congress; and completed the building of an addition to the national headquarters.

Raised in Atlanta where she attended public elementary and high schools, Scott went on to enroll at Spelman College, where she graduated with her B.A. degree. In 1953, Scott was initiated into the Kappa Omega Chapter of the AKA Sorority. She continued her education by earning her M.A. degree from New York University. Afterwards, she completed her post graduate work in the humanities at New York University and Georgia State University, where she became certified in supervision and administration.

From 1982 to 1984, Scott served as the regional director of the Atlanta branch of the AKA Sorority. Later, in 1986, Scott became the first Anti-Basileus elect at the Boulé in Detroit, Michigan. In 1990, Scott was elected as the 23rd International President of AKA Sorority, Inc., at the Boulé in Richmond, Virginia. As international president, Scott was instrumental in the first non-military memorial to World War II veterans at Pearl Harbor, dedicated to the unsung hero, Doris Miller. She also completed the building and financing of the third story addition to the AKA Sorority national headquarters. Then, in 1992, Scott used her position to establish an international chapter in London, England, which existed until 2006. During her administration, she formed a partnership with the Library of Congress in a national campaign to promote reading. She also renewed the AKA Cleveland Job Corps contract.

Aside from her leadership roles in the AKA Sorority, Scott has worked as an educator, elementary school music specialist and motivational speaker. She has received many awards and recognitions including the Prominent American Personality Award from the President of the Republic of Benin. In 1990, Scott received an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters degree from Miles College in Birmingham, Alabama.

Mary Scott passed away on April 15, 2013.

Accession Number

A2008.026

Sex

Female

Interview Date

2/24/2008

Last Name

Scott

Maker Category
Middle Name

Shy

Schools

Edwin P. Johnson Elementary School

David T. Howard Elementary School

Booker T. Washington High School

Spelman College

First Name

Mary

Birth City, State, Country

Atlanta

HM ID

SCO06

Favorite Season

None

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

7/19/1930

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Apples

Death Date

4/15/2013

Short Description

Association chief executive and elementary school music teacher Mary Shy Scott (1930 - 2013 ) was the 23rd International President of Alpha Kappa Alpha (AKA) Sorority. Under Scott's leadership, AKA established the first non-military World War II veterans' memorial at Pearl Harbor, dedicated to the unsung hero, Doris Miller. She used her position to expand the sorority's headquarters, to establish an international chapter in London, and to promote reading in a national campaign with the Library of Congress. She was also a motivational speaker.

Employment

Atlanta Public Schools

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Mary Shy Scott's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Mary Shy Scott describes her ascension to supreme basileus of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Mary Shy Scott talks about her vision for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Mary Shy Scott recalls implementing her vision for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Mary Shy Scott describes her leadership style

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Mary Shy Scott remembers the influence of Margaret Davis Bowen

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Mary Shy Scott recalls lessons from her Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority leadership

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Mary Shy Scott describes the Ivy Center in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Mary Shy Scott recalls an irritation leading Alpha Kappa Alpha

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Mary Shy Scott remembers a lesson from her father

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Mary Shy Scott reflects upon her success as supreme basileus of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Mary Shy Scott reflects upon her tenure as supreme basileus of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Mary Shy Scott recalls paying the mortgage on the Ivy Center in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Mary Shy Scott reflects upon her legacy at Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Mary Shy Scott talks about her accomplishments at Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Mary Shy Scott describes her hopes for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority's future

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Mary Shy Scott talks about the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority's commitment to service

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Mary Shy Scott describes her ideal of the perfect sisterhood at Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Mary Shy Scott lists her favorites

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Mary Shy Scott describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Mary Shy Scott describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Mary Shy Scott remembers her mother

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Mary Shy Scott talks about her mother's education, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Mary Shy Scott talks about her mother's education, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Mary Shy Scott describes her father's family background

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Mary Shy Scott remembers her paternal grandparents

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Mary Shy Scott describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Mary Shy Scott talks about how her parents met

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Mary Shy Scott describes her parents' professions

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Mary Shy Scott remembers the Summerhill neighborhood in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Mary Shy Scott recalls her extracurricular activities

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Mary Shy Scott describes Edwin P. Johnson Elementary School in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Mary Shy Scott lists her siblings

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Mary Shy Scott describes her elementary school experiences

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Mary Shy Scott describes her primary education

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Mary Shy Scott remembers Grady Homes in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Mary Shy Scott recalls her childhood music lessons

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Mary Shy Scott remembers World War II

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Mary Shy Scott talks about her high school aspirations

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Mary Shy Scott describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Mary Shy Scott talks about Capitol Homes in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Mary Shy Scott recalls her teachers

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Mary Shy Scott remembers segregation in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Mary Shy Scott describes Brooklyn School of Dance in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Mary Shy Scott recalls studying ballet and tap dance in New York City

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Mary Shy Scott remembers learning about race in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Mary Shy Scott recalls living in New York City

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Mary Shy Scott remembers Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Mary Shy Scott describes her social life at Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Mary Shy Scott remembers her introduction to Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Mary Shy Scott recalls her early teaching career

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Mary Shy Scott remembers meeting her husband

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Mary Shy Scott recalls her active participation in Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$3

DAStory

5$12

DATitle
Mary Shy Scott describes her leadership style
Mary Shy Scott describes her elementary school experiences
Transcript
As far as your leaders- leadership style, what leadership style did you use to bring your vision to fruition?$$First of all, I worked very, very, very carefully to let every soror I know that love was gonna be the theme of my administration. I sent every message out with love, and they felt it. I touched sorors: sorors who were in wheelchairs, sorors who were taller than me, sorors who were smaller than me. But they felt the love that I was offering them, and so we were able then to get together and work together and know together that we were on a mission and that was to serve the world through Alpha Kappa Alpha [Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.]. And I think that was the thing that helped because sorors still write me now and sign their letters, love.$$As the individual with the ultimate responsibility for making decisions which would shape Alpha Kappa Alpha, what was the fundamental test you applied?$$Well, the fundamen- fundamental test was to see after a suggestion was made, after it was carried from the board table into each chapter, I would go into regional conferences, I would visit chapters across the world, I would speak to chapters and I couldn't get a feel. Once I'm in that chapter, or once I'm in the aggregation of the people they got together, I could get a feel of what was out there as a result of what I had put out there with my directorate. And it was excellent because you could feel the response, you could feel the love. You could also feel the seriousness of the program entities. Families were coming to worship with us. As I spoke over in Nassau [Bahamas], the ladies who were in charge of getting us in the island were right on top of us, you know, showing that they cared about what we were bringing into their island. When we went to England to do the chapters there, and set up the charters for those chapters, many, many, ladies who were non Alpha Kappa Alpha women knew about Alpha Kappa Alpha and came to help us and support us. That was my real test of what we were doing and making a decision, is it working?$Tell me more about your elementary school days in school. What about the books, and was there anything that you can look back on and say could've or should have been better?$$Sure. First of all, if you ask me about my elementary school days, I was too young and too inexperienced to know that the books we were using were passed down to us. When I got to David T. Howard [David T. Howard Elementary School; David T. Howard High School, Atlanta, Georgia], I was yet so busy, I knew I had a textbook, I'm not sure that I knew and I, I think I can say I didn't know that we didn't have all the textbooks we needed because there again, the teachers created enough for us to get what we were supposed to get and feel that we were getting it. It was only when I started teaching right out of college that I realized that every book that came through my desk was from one of the white schools and every elementary majorette suit I got came from another white school and they passed them down to us. Now that was when my fight started with the system. I didn't want the children to put those dirty suits on and didn't let 'em put it on. I talked to the parents and very early in my young teaching career, I found parents in the community who could make majorette suits and I really was upset about the books, but we were at that point--in 1950, when I started teaching, they were still handing us books from Sylvan High [Sylvan Hills High School, Atlanta, Georgia] and from the other schools.

Jeanne Brayboy

Civil rights activist and elementary school music teacher Jeanne Martin Brayboy was born on February 23, 1930, in Camden, South Carolina. Her father, John Wendell Martin, was a high school teacher and football coach; and he started the first African American athletic conference in South Carolina. Her mother, June Singleton Martin, was a librarian. Brayboy and her younger sister, Thomasina, grew up under strict segregation, and they recognized the disparities between whites and blacks in Camden’s educational system. She attended Mather Academy, an African American boarding school founded in 1867 by the Women’s Division of the Northern Methodist Church in Camden, where the teachers stressed academic excellence and community responsibility. Brayboy graduated from Mather Academy in 1947.

Brayboy went on to attend Bennett College in Greensboro, North Carolina, as a music major, where she became active in the Bennett Choir among other campus activities. In 1951, Brayboy graduated from Bennett College with honors and received her B.A. degree in music. She entered Boston University to pursue her M.A. degree in music education. During her tenure at Boston University, Brayboy met Martin Luther King, Jr. Brayboy and King were a part of a small group of friends that attended black social gatherings on campus. She graduated from Boston University in 1953, and started her teaching career in Charlotte, North Carolina. In 1954, she married the late Dr. Jack Brayboy, who was an administrator at Johnson C. Smith University in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Brayboy spent forty years as a teacher in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg School System, from 1953 to 1993. While she worked in the segregated Charlotte schools, she witnessed bus boycotts and sit-ins during the Civil Rights Movement. In 1969, Brayboy became one of the first African American teachers to integrate the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Public Schools. Brayboy retired in 1993.

The mother of two adult children, Jack and Joyce, Brayboy devotes her time to many civic organizations including the Charlotte Symphony Orchestra, Levine Museum of the New South and the Foundation for the Carolinas. In 2011, Brayboy was awarded the Marie R. Rowe Award by the Symphony Guild of Charlotte, Inc.

Jeanne Martin Brayboy was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 20, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.179

Sex

Female

Interview Date

6/20/2007

Last Name

Brayboy

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widowed

Schools

Boylan-Haven-Mather Academy

Boston University

Bennett College for Women

First Name

Jeanne

Birth City, State, Country

Camden

HM ID

BRA08

Favorite Season

Winter

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Italy

Favorite Quote

To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

North Carolina

Birth Date

2/23/1930

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Charlotte

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Lobster

Short Description

Civil rights activist and elementary school music teacher Jeanne Brayboy (1930 - ) taught for forty years, and was the first African American teacher to integrate the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Public Schools in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Employment

Charlotte-Mecklenburg School System

Johnson C. Smith University

Elementary Music Workshop

Barber-Scotia College

Favorite Color

Yellow

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Jeanne Brayboy's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Jeanne Brayboy lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Jeanne Brayboy describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her parents' education and professions

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her father

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her paternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Jeanne Brayboy describes segregation in Camden, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers Mather Academy in Camden, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her sister

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers the holidays with her family

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her great-aunt

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Jeanne Brayboy describes racial discrimination in Camden, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her aunt's sewing business

Tape: 1 Story: 16 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her teachers at Mather Academy

Tape: 1 Story: 17 - Jeanne Brayboy describes Trinity Methodist Church in Camden, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her activities at Mather Academy

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Jeanne Brayboy talks about her family history of college education

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her interest in music

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her great-aunt's land ownership

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers polo and steeplechase races

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers Bennett College in Greensboro, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers traveling with the Bennett College choir

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her studies at Bennett College

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Jeanne Brayboy describes segregation in Greensboro, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Jeanne Brayboy recalls her social acitivties at Bennett College

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers Boston University in Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Jeanne Brayboy describes Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as a young man

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Jeanne Brayboy recalls dating Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her social life at Boston University

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Jeanne Brayboy recalls teaching music in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her music curriculum

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers teaching in segregated schools

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Jeanne Brayboy describes McCrorey Heights in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Jeanne Brayboy recalls Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s visit to Johnson C. Smith University in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Jeanne Brayboy recalls Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s speech at a school in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Jeanne Brayboy describes the Civil Rights Movement in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers school integration in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her daughter's experience of school integration

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her husband, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her children

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her teaching career in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her husband, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her retirement from teaching

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her involvement in the Foundation for the Carolinas

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers her father's community service

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Jeanne Brayboy talks about her parents' community involvement

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her activities in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers parenting after her husband's death

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Jeanne Brayboy describes the changes at Johnson C. Smith University in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her organizational involvement

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Jeanne Brayboy reflects upon her teaching career

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Jeanne Brayboy describes the aftermath of the school busing program

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Jeanne Brayboy describes the changes in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Jeanne Brayboy talks about her grandson

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Jeanne Brayboy reflects upon her life

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Jeanne Brayboy describes the Levine Museum of the New South in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - Jeanne Brayboy talks about Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Jeanne Brayboy remembers the racial violence in South Carolina

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Jeanne Brayboy talks about her husband's U.S. military service

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Jeanne Brayboy describes her neighborhood in Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Jeanne Brayboy describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Jeanne Brayboy reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Jeanne Brayboy shares her advice to future generations

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Jeanne Brayboy narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

3$7

DATitle
Jeanne Brayboy remembers school integration in Charlotte, North Carolina
Jeanne Brayboy describes the aftermath of the school busing program
Transcript
So tell me about the schools, integration.$$Well, as I said, I was, I was first sent to two white schools, all white schools, and I was the only black teacher for the first year and, of course, because they sent the special teachers, art and music, physical ed [physical education], and it was interesting. Some of the teachers went out of their way to be nice to me. Some just ignored me. One or two, I mean, ignored me, I mean, they couldn't ignore me but so much but I remember the principal was very nice to me and the secretary and some of them, you know, just acted matter of fact, which was fine. Most of the children didn't, you know, they didn't react at all. I remember once, one little girl asking me, was I Indian and I said, "No, I'm not Indian, I'm--," I don't know whether I said African American or black probably then and she said, "Well I just asked because the lady across the street from me is Indian and she looks kind of like you." Okay.$$So no problem from the students?$$Well, yeah, the ones who maybe had a problem, they didn't say it, they might have, I'm sure there were some whose parents had a problem, and all, but it wasn't overt and I remember, my same aunt, my [paternal] great aunt [Jessie Dinkins Wright] then was coming visiting and she was very concerned about me going, going into the white schools teaching but I, (laughter) I guess I was naive, I went on and did what I've been doing.$$Do you remember the names of those white schools?$$The first two schools where I worked, Park Road [Park Road Elementary School, Charlotte, North Carolina] and Sedgefield [Sedgefield Elementary School, Charlotte, North Carolina] and I stayed there awhile and then I was switched to some other schools and some white and some, well by that, it was, they were in--after that, they were all integrated, one way or the other (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) So, well did, how did that go over the actual integration of all these schools, the busing of white kids and black kids?$$Oh, there was some big protest about, about it, the high schools mainly and there was some parents. You could always tell the children whose parents were negative but, you see, most of them couldn't afford to send their child--and, of course, there were some more private schools that popped up but some children, you know, most parents couldn't afford to send the children to private schools. So, I can remember Oaklawn [Oaklawn Elementary School, Charlotte, North Carolina], which is near my house where I worked for years, I remember having a chorus and we had, of course, the black and white kids and I have a lot of pictures of those and I can remember a parent sitting and crying and I remember the teachers, one of the children asked me about that later and I said, "Well you know sometimes you all just sounded so good that the people were moved to tears." And we were asked to sing at different little occasions around town. So, you know, and I made, I still have, run into kids now, black and white, who I taught years ago, who all grown like that young lady.$Tell me about the tensions in the '90s [1990s] in the school system in Charlotte [North Carolina], '90s [1990s] and early 2000, 2001, weren't there some--$$The tensions had been because they changed the school plan and they, which has resulted in some of the, some all-black schools, some re-segregation in some cases. You see, I retired in '93 [1993] so I haven't been a part of it really and I hate seeing the re-segregation. I think it's a step backward.$$How did that happen?$$Parents who lived other places, a lot of people we said, moved into Charlotte. Okay, so you live in a little suburban town and, you know, your child doesn't have to be bused and the school is all white or whatever. So they came and they brought suit against Charlotte-Mecklenburg [Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools] because some of the students were being bused to different places and it, it's just really interesting because the natives, so to speak, of people who've been through integration and know all the problems we went through and came through and survived and made a better school system, you know, we, we were content, so to speak, and these people were outsiders who came from other places and they brought suit and they got a judge, Judge Potter [Robert D. Potter, Sr.] who is now dead, who was sympathetic and he upset the whole plan and went back to, it's not totally neighborhood schools but it's close to it. What they have done, for example, the school that's in my neighborhood [McCrorey Heights, Charlotte, North Carolina], they made it, what they call a language emersion school. They renovated the school, they built practically a whole new school, in my neighborhood there're not ten, ten children 'cause we're all old and the children have grown or go, so now they emphasized Spanish and French and they started out K [kindergarten] through one, and then I guess this year they have third grade, all up to third grade. The school's half empty, or more than half empty. In the suburbs, there are a lot of people who moved, the schools are very crowded and they have all these trailers. And so there's this dialog now about whether they should renovate inner-city schools, which are almost all black, but a lot of them need work because they're getting older and whether building new schools and there's this constant--$$Okay.$$--talk about it.