So in 1948 you graduated from Spelman University (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Uh-huh, Spelman College [Atlanta, Georgia], um-hm.$$Spelman College, and what did you do after that?$$That summer I worked with Martin Luther King [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.], he was my dear friend. We had a lot of sociology classes together. I called him M.L. as everybody did in Atlanta [Georgia], who knew him. His brother, younger brother was A.D. Williams King [Alfred Daniel Williams King], named for his grandfather [Adam Daniel Williams]. And so we called him A.D., and we called Martin Luther King, M.L. And his sister Christine [HistoryMaker Christine King Farris] is still my friend today. And they became neighbors when I was thirteen. And once, a couple of summers we'd just played Monopoly all the time, a couple of girls who were cousins, the King children, and Mattiwilda [HistoryMaker Mattiwilda Dobbs Janzon] and myself. And we would rotate and whoever was the hostess or host would be serving lunch. We'd do our little chores in the morning and then we'd play Monopoly in the afternoon. And A.D. started cheating. He had an extra Monopoly set and so we would pass me hundred dollar bills and I'd become monopolist you know. When M.L. found out about it he was just so outraged he cuffed his brother he hit him across the face you know and I was really afraid he was going to hit me but he didn't. And Mattwilda was furious you know. And I thought I was funny at first, but then I, I saw that they were really angry. Christine wasn't angry, and the two girls, who were cousins, were annoyed. They thought it was stupid, but they weren't angry. But Mattiwilda and M.L. were put out with us for cheating.$$Now what was M.L. like during, because this is 1949 or '48 , he's a child (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) He was, he was such a darling, he was very sincere, he was very honest and he was trying to find where he was, in his own self.$$Would, did you, at this time because all of you were young adults, did you talk about race relations, racial issues?$$Oh all the time.$$What were your conversations?$$Well we were trying to understand, how such hatreds got perpetuated, why people couldn't get passed some of the biases of their ancestors or their relatives and, and, and we were trying to do something within our lives to, to, my father [John Wesley Dobbs] used to put it like this, he said, "Strike a blow for the race," that was his little slogan. Well I used to think, I don't want to strike a blow. I'd like to create something, or to do something that brings the kind of harmony or happiness or release something you know. But the idea to strike a blow for the race. Well he had such a rough time working with people who would, would tell him, "We're gonna throw you off this train," you know. He never got thrown off but he met with brutality. And he had all kinds of trouble getting loans and that kind of thing, thing from businesses. Like when they were building the Masonic Temple [Prince Hall Masonic Temple and Tabor Building, Atlanta, Georgia], which is still standing on Auburn Avenue now. They--$$Well as a group of teenagers did you have any concept that you, did you all decide together that we are going to do something to improve?$$Oh we were, we were all possessed of that. When I finished college, M.L. and I finished in 1948, Christine was in the same class, even though she was a year older. He had skipped several grades and I had skipped the twelfth grade. And our class of '48 , at Spelman and Morehouse [Morehouse College, Atlanta, Georgia] we did more to get education, than any other class before or since. He was just a leading light among us. But there were more people who were turned on, to go as far as you could. Whether was law, medicine, journalism whatever, get a terminal degree and then do what you wanted to do. And his goal was to finish his degrees, get his ministerial degree, his doctorate, and marry someone whom he really loved and go wherever the first church called him. And my best friend was engaged to him, and she said, "I can't do that, I'll go crazy. I can't live in any little hick town, let's go back to Atlanta [Georgia]." And he said no, "I've got to do this 'cause God wants me to do this," so he knew exactly what he wanted to do. And it's annoying to me when I read, white authors who say--and they've never had an interview with anybody in the King family--and they say oh he wanted to do this, or he was very depressed, or these were his suicidal tendencies.$$What was your best friend's name, that he?$$Juanita [Juanita Sellers Stone], Juanita Sellers, she's now Stone. Yeah and, and she couldn't marry him. But the weekend they broke up his, his one of his good friends that, who was a doctorial stu-, who was a ministerial student with him at Crozer [Crozer Theological Seminary, Upland, Pennsylvania], sent him a telegram, "Have I got a girl for you," come to Boston [Massachusetts]. And he met Coretta [Coretta Scott King] and she was made for him, they were wonderful.$Had Kinsey's Report ['Sexual Behavior in the Human Male' and 'Sexual Behavior in the Human Female'] come out before that (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) His was more verbal, he had interviewed people. He'd interviewed people in prison, he'd interviewed people that he could get to, college campuses. He was criticized for his sampling, because, it wasn't that he tried to be selective, he couldn't get to people at first. And he thought if he just got to, whomever he could get to, that would be great. But then people started saying, maybe people who'd been in prison act like that, but my wife wouldn't do that. Or my daughter wouldn't do that, and that kind of thing. So Masters [William H. Masters] wanted to study with as much scientific equipment as he could. What happens to the brain, what happens to your breathing, what happens to the heart, what happens to your respiration, during orgasm, during excitement, during the calming down period? And so he wanted a little laboratory and he talked first to his people in medicine, where he was at Washington University [Washington University in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri]. He was an OB/GYN [obstetrics and gynecology] doctor. And they told him, "Yes he could get permission, but where was he gone get the people," they weren't sure, they didn't know that anybody would come into a lab, get hooked up with electros and masturbate. Or have intercourse or something like that. So he, they said, "Ask the police permission first if you're gonna get maybe prostitutes." So they had red light district in St. Louis [Missouri] in those days, this was in the '50s [1950s]. He was inspired by Kinsey's [Alfred C. Kinsey] work. And he got permission from the police to set up a lab where he could do sexual experiments. And he decided after he interviewed one or two prostitutes, he said there was one woman who was very intelligent. And she asked him, "Shall I fake it," he said, "I don't understand what do you mean?" She said, "Well in my business we try to get the man, happy and satisfied, as quickly as possible to get paid. I don't allow myself to enjoy it." And he didn't know that, she said, "I fake it," he said oh (laughter), she said, "You need an interpreter, of women." 'Cause there are differences you see. So, I mean a male orgasm is kind of hard to miss, you know when that's happening, and it's coupled with ejaculation, usually, not always, but usually. And so because sometimes the ejaculate can go retrograde, go back into the bladder. And there some men who know how to do this. It's taught to younger guys, this is a way of contraception, that make the ejaculate go back into the bladder. Our Western men don't know how to do it, but urologist don't want them to try learn, 'cause it weakens the bladder, it's not good for the bladder. But it is contraceptive. So at any rate, the human sexuality has never been studied and it's so broad it's, it's, such a landscape. And if you try to be moralistic and say those who are married, those who are Christian, you know what I'm saying, isn't it ridiculous. We're talking about human sexuality.$$So (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) And we're saying you gotta be heterosexual. So it's much bigger than that. And Masters was trying to study something, and he wasn't saying people have to be heterosexual. He was studying who people were and what they did and had they ever had an orgasm. And how would they define it, what did they think about it? And if they were with a partner, how did they feel? And if they were by themselves how did they feel, so how they felt was a big part. And they had electros all over the body, that would register whether they achieved orgasm or not. But then they'd ask them how they felt. What they found with women, women were much more variable, all over the place than men. Men were pretty much alike, a bank president, a sharecropper, whoever they were male first. And they were pretty much alike. But women came in about three varieties, and all that's interesting research. Masters wanted to come back and do more research with electronic equipment. It would have been so beautiful, it's never been done, the government never gave him any money for research.