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H. Carl McCall

Government official and civic leader H. Carl McCall was born on October 17, 1935 in Boston, Massachusetts to Herman McCall and Caroleasa Ray. He and his five siblings were raised in Boston’s Roxbury community. In 1954, McCall graduated from Roxbury Memorial High School, where he was president of his class. He received his B.A. degree in government from Dartmouth College in 1958, and went on to attend the University of Edinburgh in the United Kingdom. He also received his M.Div. degree from Andover Newton Theological Seminary and became an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ.

McCall worked first as a high school teacher and a bank manager, and then joined the United States Army in the 1960s. By the late 1960s, he moved to New York City to work for church outreach and was subsequently appointed by Mayor John Lindsay to head the Commission Against Poverty. In 1971, McCall helped to found and served as president of the Inner City Broadcasting Corporation. He was then elected to the New York State Senate representing the upper Manhattan district of New York City in 1975, and went on to serve three terms. In 1979, McCall was appointed as an ambassador for the U.S. delegation to the United Nations by President Jimmy Carter. He unsuccessfully ran for Lieutenant Governor in 1982, but was named the state’s commissioner of human rights by Mario Cuomo in 1983. McCall then served as vice president of Citicorp from 1985 to 1993, and from 1991 to 1993, he served as president of the New York City Board of Education under Mayor David N. Dinkins.

In 1993, McCall became the first African American elected as the New York State comptroller after winning a special election. He was reelected to the position in 1994 and in 1998. McCall then ran for and won the Democratic primary for Governor of New York in 2002, but was defeated in the general election. He stepped down from his post as comptroller in 2003, and later started a financial services firm called Convent Capital.

McCall was a member of the board of the New York Stock Exchange from 1999 to 2003. He also sat on the board of the Apollo Theater Foundation, Inc., and is a member of the Fiscal Control Board for Buffalo, New York. He has also served on the boards of directors for TYCO International, New Plan Realty, TAG Entertainment Corporation, Ariel Investments, and as chair of the New York State Public Higher Education Conference Board. In 2011, McCall was appointed chairman of the State University of New York Board of Trustees. He is the recipient of nine honorary degrees and was awarded the Nelson Rockefeller Distinguished Public Service Award from the Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy at the University of Albany in 2003.

McCall is married to Dr. Joyce F. Brown, the president of the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York. He has one daughter, Marci.

Carl McCall was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 18, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.146

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/18/2014

Last Name

McCall

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Carl

Schools

Henry Lee Higginson Elementary School

Roxbury Memorial High School

Dartmouth College

Andover Newton Theological School

First Name

H.

Birth City, State, Country

Boston

HM ID

MCC17

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Massachusetts

Favorite Vacation Destination

Dutchess County, New York

Favorite Quote

Keep Hope Alive.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

10/17/1935

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Federal government official and civic leader H. Carl McCall (1935 - ) became the comptroller of New York State in 1994. He was the first African American to be elected to a statewide office in New York.

Employment

State University of New York

Office of the Comptroller of the State of New York

New York City Board of Education

Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

Citicorp

New York State Division of Human Rights

The United States Department of State

New York State Senate

Favorite Color

Green

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of H. Carl McCall's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall talks about his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall remembers his community in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall remembers the St. Mark Congregational Church in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall describes his early personality

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - H. Carl McCall remembers his schooling in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - H. Carl McCall talks about his academic success

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - H. Carl McCall talks about his relationship with his father

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - H. Carl McCall remembers segregation in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - H. Carl McCall remembers Edward Brooke

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - H. Carl McCall remembers teaching at Jamaica Plain High School in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall talks about his interest in teaching

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall recalls his decision to attend Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall talks about his experiences at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall talks about the fraternities at Dartmouth College

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall remembers working at Breezy Meadows Camp in Holliston, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall talks about his transition to college

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall remembers graduating from Dartmouth College

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall recalls his first experience of segregation in the South

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall talks about the segregated housing at Fort Benning in Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - H. Carl McCall talks about his decision to apply to graduate school

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall remembers studying at the University of Edinburgh in Edinburgh, Scotland

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall talks about developing his theology

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall remembers his missionary work in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall recalls becoming an organizer for the New York City Mission Society

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall describes his initiatives at the New York City Mission Society

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall talks about the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall describes the New York City Council Against Poverty

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall talks about the Urban League of Greater New York

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall remembers expanding the Opportunities Industrialization Centers to New York City

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - H. Carl McCall talks about the relationship between the Congregational church and historically black colleges

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall reflects upon his political career in New York

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall talks about funding community programs in New York City

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall recalls his role in the administration of Mayor John Lindsay

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall remembers meeting Percy Sutton

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall remembers acquiring the New York Amsterdam News

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall talks about the founding of the Inner City Broadcasting Corporation

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall talks about his campaign for the New York State Senate

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall describes his experiences in the New York State Senate

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall describes the demographics of the New York State Senate

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - H. Carl McCall remembers his appointment as ambassador to the United Nations

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - H. Carl McCall talks about his position at WNET-TV

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall remembers his run for lieutenant governor of New York

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall talks about his work at Citibank, N.A., pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall remembers meeting his wife

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall talks about his work at Citibank, N.A., pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall talks about the role of African Americans in the municipal finance industry

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall recalls his appointment to the New York City Department of Education

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall talks about minority participation in New York State governance

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall recalls becoming the comptroller of New York State

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall remembers his reelections as New York State comptroller

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - H. Carl McCall talks about the challenges of political campaigning

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - H. Carl McCall remember his campaign against Herbert London

Tape: 5 Story: 13 - H. Carl McCall remembers the election of Mayor Rudy Giuliani

Tape: 5 Story: 14 - H. Carl McCall talks about the influence of the Republican Party in New York State

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - H. Carl McCall talks about his plans to run for governor of New York

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall remembers joining the board of the New York Stock Exchange

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall talks about the controversy over Richard Grasso's pension

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall remembers the effect of September 11, 2001 on the New York Stock Exchange

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall remembers his decision to run for governor of New York

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall talks about his gubernatorial campaign against George Pataki and Andrew Cuomo

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall describes the reasons for his unsuccessful gubernatorial bid in 2002

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall reflects upon his experiences as a politician

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall talks about his hopes for young black politicians

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall talks about his corporate board memberships

Tape: 6 Story: 11 - H. Carl McCall talks about his relationship with Andrew Cuomo

Tape: 6 Story: 12 - H. Carl McCall describes his role as chairman of the State University of New York System

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - H. Carl McCall talks about StartUp NY

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - H. Carl McCall talks about the future of public education in New York

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - H. Carl McCall talks about Mayor Bill de Blasio's proposal for public education funding

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - H. Carl McCall talks about income inequality in New York

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - H. Carl McCall talks about the neglect of the middle class

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - H. Carl McCall talks about the importance of black organizations

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - H. Carl McCall describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - H. Carl McCall reflects upon the legacy of his generation

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - H. Carl McCall reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - H. Carl McCall reflects upon his life

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

11$9

DATitle
H. Carl McCall remembers his appointment as ambassador to the United Nations
H. Carl McCall recalls becoming the comptroller of New York State
Transcript
And then, what happens at that point?$$At that point I, I felt that I--my opportunities were limited. I felt that, you know, being in the minority in the senate [New York State Senate] you were you're just limited in what you, what you could do. And that, that wasn't going to change because I didn't see the possibility of Democrats taking over the senate for a long time. And I figured that's something I hadn't done yet and this I never had except for my travels I never really hadn't an international experience. And I'd like to--and I wanted to do something that would expose me to the international community. So I called my friend Charlie Rangel [HistoryMaker Charles B. Rangel], and I said, "Charlie, you know, maybe it's time for me to do something else. How about the possibility of being an ambassador of some African country." So, right away Charlie Rangel sent me to Washington [D.C.] to meet with a fellow who was--at that time Jimmy Carter [President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.] was president. And there was a fellow named Louie Martin [Louis E. Martin] from Detroit [Michigan], who was a major political, national political figure. And he was the major main black person in the White House. And his job was to recruit black folks and a few other things. So Charlie sent me to see him, and I just happened to show up to see him as you remember Andy Young [HistoryMaker Andrew Young] had been the ambassador at the United Nations. And because of some difficulty around his meeting with Palestinians he left the job. And Donald McHenry [Donald F. McHenry] moved up to become the chief ambassador and what people didn't know there were four people with the title of ambassador at the United Nations. There's the chief representative, and then there were three deputies, all with the title of ambassador so, Donald McHenry had one of those positions. When he then took Andy Young's place as the chief representative, his spot was open. Just so happen when I went to meet with Louie Martin they were looking for someone to fill that spot. And since I was from New York [New York] and knew New York and had Charlie Rangel's support, Louie Martin said, "How would you like to be the ambassador of the--United Nations?" That's how I got that job, so I spent two years there, and it was the last three years of the Carter administration. I got to travel a lot I got to meet a lot of interesting people like it that time there was a young person from Ghana. At the UN by the name of Kofi Annan, who later, you know, became the secretary general. But it was a very good, rewarding, broadening experience in terms of the people I met and the contacts I'd developed and the places that I was able to travel to.$So but then people came calling, right?$$Yes, um-hm. Then I had this interesting opportunity where there--a very important position as comptroller of the State of New York became open. Because the person who been there for some twenty-seven years I think resigned and given the fact that he resigned--$$That's Edward?$$Ed Regan [Edward V. Regan].$$Regan.$$When there's an opening such as that, the legislature [New York State Legislature] determines who the next person will be to fill out that term. And it happens with a joint meeting of the legislature but the assembly people dominate that because they are more of them. There are a hundred and fifty assembly people and only sixty senators and the assembly [New York State Assembly] had a lot of minority candidates members rather. They had a lot of members from New York City [New York, New York], so it was clear that if you had a lot of support in the assembly. You could get that position, and what I had as advantages now I have been in banking. And the comptroller's position is a very important financial position. So therefore I had the financial experience and I'd been in the legislature so I had the legislative experience they knew me so I had government experience. I had already run statewide for lieutenant governor, and I'd done well in Upstate New York. So it--I, I think I had a lot of advantages, and it worked that there two bodies met. And I had the overwhelming support of people in the assembly, and I became comptroller. And that's a very interesting job the comptroller of New York is a very powerful position because of the variety of those responsibilities. The comptroller of New York is the chief financial officer of the state. Is the chief auditor of the state and significantly the comptroller is the sole trustee of the state pension fund [New York State Common Retirement Fund] which provides pension and benefits to over a million public employees. And what that job entails is, is managing this portfolio of, of funds. And investing those funds for the retirement system. When I took over that position we were the second largest and still are. Second largest public pension fund in the country second to California. And when I took over the pension fund we had some $69 billion in assets. And when I left nine years later it had grown to $120 billion in assets. So while I was able to significantly grow the pension fund and to be a very good steward of those considerable responsibilities because they were so important to people who are in public service, who needs those resources, you know, when they retire, were able to increase the benefits to retirees while I was there. So that was a very exciting, difficult, demanding job, but I, I really enjoyed it.

Mary Bush

Financial executive and federal government official Mary K. Bush was born in 1948 in Birmingham, Alabama to Augusta and Johnny Bush. She graduated from Ullman High School in 1965 and received her B.A. degree, Phi Beta Kappa Magna Cum Laude, in economics and political science from Fisk University in 1969. Bush went on to receive her M.B.A. degree in finance in 1971 from the University of Chicago.

In 1971, she joined Chase Manhattan Bank in New York City as a credit analyst. From 1973 to 1976, Bush worked as an account officer for Citbank, and from 1976 to 1982, she worked as vice president and team leader for Bankers Trust Company. In 1982, she held the position of executive assistant to the deputy secretary for the United States Treasury. In 1984, President Ronald Reagan appointed Bush as United States alternate executive director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Four years later, Bush became vice president of international finance for the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae). In 1989, she served as managing director of the Federal Housing Finance Board for the Federal Home Loan Bank System. Bush founded her own global consulting firm, Bush International, LLC, in 1991. From 1994 to 1997, Bush hosted "Markets and Technology," a nationwide cable television program on global business and government policy. In 2006, she was appointed by President George W. Bush as chairman of the Helping to Enhance the Livelihood of People around the Globe Commission (HELP). Bush is a frequent television commentator and speaker on global business and financial matters and corporate governance. She has also advised the foreign governments of Bulgaria, the Republic of Korea, the Republic of the Philippines and the Republic of Singapore.

Bush has applied her financial and economic expertise on the board of directors of many companies including Discover Financial Services, The Pioneer Family of Mutual Funds, Mantech International Corporation and Marriott International. Bush also serves on the Investment Company Institute Board of Governors and on the boards of the Independent Directors Council and Capital Partners for Education. She also serves on the advisory boards of Stern Stewart International, the Global Leadership Foundation (US Advisory Board) and the Kennedy Center Community and Friends Advisory Board.

Mary K. Bush was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 7, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.055

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/7/2012

Last Name

Bush

Maker Category
Marital Status

Single

Schools

Ullman High School

Fisk University

University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Center Street Elementary School

First Name

Mary

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

BUS03

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Italy

Favorite Quote

To Thine Own Self Be True.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

4/9/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Vegetables

Short Description

Financial executive and federal government official Mary Bush (1948 - ) served on the board of the International Monetary Fund, where she designed the Structural Adjustment Facility. She was also the vice president of international finance at Fannie Mae and the managing director of the Federal Housing Finance Board.

Employment

Bush International, LLC

NET (formerly America's Voice)

Federal Home Loan Bank System

Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae)

International Monetary Fund

United States Treasury Department

Bankers Trust Company

Citibank

Chase Manhattan Bank

Discover Financial Services

Marriot International

Pioneer Family of Mutual Funds

ManTech International Corporation

United Airlines

PEFCO

Brock Capital

First National City Bank

Mortgage Guaranty Insurance Corporation

American Security Bank

Briggs and Stratton

Texaco, Inc.

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Mary Bush's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Mary Bush lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Mary Bush describes her maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Mary Bush talks about her mother's education and occupation

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Mary Bush describes her father's occupation

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Mary Bush describes her paternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Mary Bush lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Mary Bush remembers her father's work ethic

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Mary Bush talks about her father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Mary Bush describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Mary Bush describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Mary Bush remembers walking to elementary school

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Mary Bush talks about Center Street Elementary School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Mary Bush recalls her extracurricular activities

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Mary Bush remembers the Sixth Avenue Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Mary Bush recalls entering Samuel Ullman High School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Mary Bush remembers her neighbors in Birmingham, Alabama, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Mary Bush remembers her neighbors in Birmingham, Alabama, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Mary Bush reflects upon her experiences at Samuel Ullman High School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Mary Bush recalls her decision to attend Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Mary Bush remembers the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Mary Bush talks about the bombings during the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Mary Bush talks about her decision to attend school in the South

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Mary Bush recalls the assassination of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Mary Bush describes the history of Fisk University

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Mary Bush talks about her experiences at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Mary Bush recalls her decision to attend the University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Mary Bush recalls her first impressions of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Mary Bush remembers her classmates at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Mary Bush recalls her training at Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Mary Bush recalls her position at the First National City Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Mary Bush recalls becoming a vice president of Bankers Trust

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Mary Bush talks about her work at Bankers Trust

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Mary Bush remembers being recruited to the U.S. Department of the Treasury

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Mary Bush describes her role at the U.S. Department of the Treasury

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Mary Bush talks about economic policy under President Ronald Reagan

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Mary Bush recalls her appointment to the International Monetary Fund

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Mary Bush remembers designing the Structural Adjustment Facility

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Mary Bush remembers her work at the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Mary Bush describes her role on the Federal Housing Finance Board

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Mary Bush talks about her experiences as an African American woman in the federal government

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Mary Bush talks about her friendship with Condoleezza Rice

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Mary Bush remembers becoming an independent consultant

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Mary Bush recalls her start as a corporate board member

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Mary Bush reflects upon her corporate board memberships

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Mary Bush describes her corporate board memberships

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Mary Bush talks about her speeches on corporate governance

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Mary Bush describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Mary Bush shares her plans for the future

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Mary Bush reflects upon her family

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Mary Bush narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$4

DAStory

8$2

DATitle
Mary Bush talks about the bombings during the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham, Alabama
Mary Bush remembers designing the Structural Adjustment Facility
Transcript
You said in your mind, "What did they bomb now?" What--so this--the things had led up to this, what were those things?$$Well, there were I think I mentioned Attorney Shores earlier, Arthur Shores, who lived in Smithfield [Birmingham, Alabama] and had a beautiful house sort of on the top of the hill, his house was bombed two or three times that I recall and even though it was Smithfield the next community over, you could, you could hear those as well. Reverend Shuttlesworth [HistoryMaker Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth] lived a little further out. I don't think I, I couldn't hear when his home or church was bombed but of course we would hear about it. There were, there was a house about a block and a half from me where another minister lived, his home was bombed. There were shrapnel bomb planted in the sidewalks where we had to walk to school one day. When, when I was in high school [Samuel Ullman High School, Birmingham, Alabama], we would walk about two, three, about three and a half blocks you know to get to the bus on 6th Avenue to go up to our high school and shrapnel, I don't know if you know what it is, but it's all these sharp things that were planted beneath the sidewalks and the shrapnel went off along about a two and a half, three block radius just the pathway that many of us would walk to school, Freeman [HistoryMaker Freeman Hrabowski], Cheryl [Cheryl McCarthy], Sandra Copeland, many of the kids in the neighborhood, and they went off and the other interesting thing is this shows how cohesive our not just our churches and schools were but our communities were, a couple of my teachers and my brother's teachers, Freeman's teachers lived on the street that was closest to 6th Avenue. So when the shrapnel went off there those teachers got on the phone immediately and they just started a chain going, "Keep your child home, keep your child home, keep your child home." And it's a good thing that they did because one might assume this shrapnel, these shrapnel bombs had gone off and then it was you know safe to go onto the bus, but indeed those phone calls were very important because our parents indeed kept us home and just about the time when we would have been actually walking out to go to school, another set of shrapnel bombs went off. So the bombings were frequent and regular. In fact that's kind of how Birmingham [Alabama] got its nickname, Bombingham.$$And this is the 1960s, you're at this point this is high school years?$$Yes.$$So you're going to school, the external environment is hostile. The internal environment is nurturing and supportive.$$You put your finger right on it. (Laughter) Yes, yes.$What would you say your, your, the, the accomplishment is that you're the proudest of at the time that you were at the IMF [International Monetary Fund]?$$The, the thing that I'm most proud of is creation of a new lending facility. Again it was that--$$Structural Adjustment--?$$--the Structural Adjustment Facility referred to shorthand the SAF. It was later called the Expanded Structural Adjustment Facility [sic. Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facility]. The reason was that our [U.S.] Congress and the other governments around the world decided to add more money to that fund. But here's the reason that it was significant. The IMF was lending to countries and when the IMF lends, it negotiates economic programs with the country. Those economic programs are focused primarily on fiscal policy and in other words budgets, how much you're spending, taxes and that kind of thing and monetary policy. What they--what those programs were not focused on as I saw it were the things that actually, the business part of it. The practical things that really get economic growth and that comes from business, it does not come from government. So I saw that issue. The other issue was that many finance ministers and essential bank governors would walk into my door and so they would always meet with the United States because of our strong voting power as well as with the management of the IMF and so many of them said to me the IMF and the World Bank, which is the sister institution to the IMF are giving us different conditions, different things that they want us to meet when we borrow from each institution and they frequently conflict with each other. And I said this doesn't make sense. So that was one thing that didn't make sense. The other thing that didn't make sense was that when we were, even though we were lending to a country and they would pay down some of the money, the next year or the year after, they were back again with the same problem and I said, "We're not addressing the problems, we're not addressing all of the problems." The Structural Adjustment Facility was aimed at doing that. Number one it brought the IMF and the World Bank together to negotiate with the country together and to be sure that the economic conditions that they were requiring were in sync with each other but number two, I wanted us to focus and we did focus and the Structural Adjustment Facility on investment policy. In other words with the right regulations in place so that people living in an African country, a Latin country, an Asian country would want to keep their money at home and invest it there. Were the right policies in place where they could attract foreign investment? Were the right tax policies in place so that they were not confiscating an enormous amount of the productivity of business? Was there a lot of red tape that prevented or that hindered the formation of new businesses and new companies? Those were the kinds of things that the staff addressed, addressed.$$Who was head of the IMF at that time?$$Initially it was Jacques de Larosiere and during my last oh, year and a half there, it was Michel Camdessus. Both Frenchmen, both outstanding.

Darlene Lorraine McKinnon

Darlene Lorraine McClaine McKinnon was born on July 28, 1943 in Baltimore, Maryland. She graduated from an all-girls public high school, Western High School, in Baltimore in 1961. McKinnon attended Morgan State University and received her B.A. degree in business from the University of the Redlands in Redlands, California in 1985.

From 1974 to 1979, McKinnon was the Assistant to the Development Director for the Rouse Company, a real estate development company that pioneered the development of new cities including Columbia, Maryland. In 1977, she became the procurement director for the Council for Equal Business Opportunity in Maryland. Since 1979, McKinnon has held several positions in the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) in California. Over the years, she has held the positions of Assistant Director of Business Development and District Director of Development. Following her graduation from the SBA’s prestigious District Directors Candidate Program and moving to San Francisco from San Diego, McKinnon became the Deputy District Director for the San Francisco District Office. McKinnon has been responsible for the start-up of key programs such as the Entrepreneur Centers in Silicon Valley, East Bay and San Francisco and the SBA Business Coaches.

In addition to her work with the SBA, McKinnon has operated her own small business, TheaterGoers International, and instructed business courses at San Diego State University. She is the co-founder of the San Diego Chapter of the National Association of Women Business Owners; is a board member of the Northern California Supplier Development Council; and a member on the President’s Board of the Children’s Hospital of Oakland. McKinnon is listed in Who’s Who Among Black Americans, has been recognized by Soroptomists International and received its Woman of Achievement Awards. In 1992, she was named one of San Diego’s 100 Local Business and Community Leaders. In 2003, McKinnon was named one of the Fifty Most Influential Women in Silicon Valley. She serves on numerous advisory boards and community organizations and has a passion for fine arts, photography and cars.

Accession Number

A2005.092

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/1/2005

Last Name

McKinnon

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Lorraine

Schools

Western High School

Morgan State University

University of Redlands

First Name

Darlene

Birth City, State, Country

Baltimore

HM ID

MCK09

Favorite Season

Spring, Summer

State

Maryland

Favorite Vacation Destination

Italy

Favorite Quote

Aim High.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

7/28/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Bay Area/San Francisco

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Lobster

Short Description

Federal government official Darlene Lorraine McKinnon (1943 - ) was the deputy director of the Small Business Adminstration in San Francisco, CA.

Employment

U.S. Small Business Administration

Council for Equal Business Opportunity

Rouse Company

TheaterGoers International

Favorite Color

Red

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon narrates her photographs

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Slating of Darlene Lorraine McKinnon's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her father

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her maternal family history

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her paternal great-grandmother and grandmother

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her life as a child in Cherry Hill, Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her upbringing after her father's death

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon remembers her childhood communities in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes attending Carter G. Woodson Elementary School in Cherry Hill, Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon recalls the churches she attended during her childhoods

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes dealing with the aftermath of her father's death when she was in junior high school

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon remembers attending Western Senior High School in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her friends and activities at Western Senior High School in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon remembers wanting to be a writer while at Western High School, Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her paternal aunt, Emily Cox

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon remembers important events from her time at Morgan State College, Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her work experience after leaving Morgan State College, Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon remembers her marriage to her first husband and her time in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes returning to Baltimore, Maryland after her paternal grandmother's stroke

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon remembers learning about business while working at the Rouse Company

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her second husband, Clem McKinnon, and moving back to California

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes working for the United States Small Business Administration in San Diego, California

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon recalls discovering and owning TheaterGoers International in San Diego, California

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her work at TheaterGoers International in San Diego, California

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes moving to the United States Small Business Administration office in San Francisco, California

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her accomplishments as deputy district director of the San Francisco office of the Small Business Administration

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her work with various civic organizations

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her heroines and repairing her relationship with her mother

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about her love of cars and photography

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her frustration with politics

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about the importance of voting

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about the United States Small Business Administration's changing role

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon reflects upon her life, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her future plans

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon reflects upon her life, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon talks about the importance of supporting black-owned businesses

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon reflects upon her life, pt. 3

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her values

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon explains why she thinks history is important

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon shares her advice for young people

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 13 - Darlene Lorraine McKinnon reflects upon her legacy

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

7$3

DATitle
Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her paternal great-grandmother and grandmother
Darlene Lorraine McKinnon describes her accomplishments as deputy district director of the San Francisco office of the Small Business Administration
Transcript
Could you tell me about your grandparents on your father's [Percy McClaine, Jr.] side?$$I--I'm lucky there too, because I knew both my great-grandmother and my grandmother. My great-grandmother probably died when I was five or six. So what I remember about her is sitting and knitting with me and teaching me how to pick good fruit and how to feel it and smell it. My great-grandmother--my grandmother, Beulah McClaine, is probably the strongest woman I've ever met in my life and probably the woman who had the most influence on me. My grandmother cleaned other people's houses for a living. But yet and still, and she was a widow. But yet and still, she owned her own home in the late 1940s. She taught me to cook, to sew, to upholster, to make lace, to embroider, to read, to write, to become politically involved. She was the head of the black Democratic Party where we lived, so I grew up with political debates. I remember the Jet magazine coming into our household and her sitting me down to talk to me about Emmett Till and the picture of his being hung in the South. And a little while later, a month later, coming back and relating to me the song that Billie Holiday sang that was called 'Strange Fruit,' and how that related back to Emmett Till. My grandmother never let me forget my history, my past. She made it a point to take me back to Ivy, Virginia where her family grew up. She took me to--we would always go and understand history. Growing up on the East Coast you have the advantage of walking in the path of history. So we went to Jamestown [Virginia], we went to the Gettysburg [National] Cemetery [Gettysburg, Pennsylvania], we went to the Liberty Bell [Philadelphia, Pennsylvania]. And she always framed a context for me, look at what is around you, this is what's happening, things are possible. And she never let me forget that people gave up their lives so that we could be free, so that we could vote, so I could have an education. And I always remember her telling me, all I want you to do is get an education so you can have your independence.$So I started forming partnerships with the private sector. I got Microsoft to build the training room here for me. HP [Hewlett-Packard] to fill it with computers. Silicon Valley is a part of my territory. I felt that businesses, if they were to succeed, don't have time to do double bookkeeping entry, they had to use technology it could make them compete with anybody. So, I got the tech giants to help us to teach businesses, getting it from the horse's mouth. Our lenders, because every bank in the United States is here. For--formed themselves into a nonprofit association because they're very competitive and that association helped to fund a lot of what I wanted, videoconferencing so I could videoconference in speakers from all over. And so after building this training room and you know, having success in training businesses on and on, Cisco came to me, Cisco Systems who was a partner teaching businesses how to build their own website about now seven or eight years ago. They dropped the ball and the new people came back and said, oh we just wanna pick up on our partnership or whatever. And I said, there's nothin' to pick up, I'm over you. You know, you made promises, you didn't keep it. The guy disappeared, you don't get a second chance back in my door. You don't ruin my good reputation. So the woman who later became my friend said she went to her boss and said we better get up to San Francisco [California] from Silicon Valley 'cause there is one pissed-off woman up there. You know, so they came and I had the attitude and the armor it's like, you know, show me. So we're out at lunch and they go, well what's your dream, what's the next step for you. And I said the next step would be to build a center that centers all around business with everything they will ever need in one place so they don't have to like run all over town tryin' to find where to get a permit, where to get counseling, how do I get the money, show me how to put together a loan package, blah, blah, blah. So Cisco became my partner in building the [SBA Cisco Systems San Jose] Entrepreneur Center [San Jose, California] in Silicon Valley which is a one-stop shop and you'll have the video of it, that contains lenders, counselors, consultants, a state of the art training room, a Cisco Internet development center that teaches businesses how to build online components to their business, satellite locations for all the ethnic chambers of commerce so that we can take our counseling and training to immigrant businesses in their native languages. People talk about the digital divide, it's lack of access and information. And no one wants to cross that cultural divide. And that's, you know, I talked to you earlier about growing up, the neighborhoods of Baltimore [Maryland], really understanding that there weren't differences between people and there're really aren't. You just have to connect with people. So all of these organizations moved in, shared the dream. So like this is gonna be the best in the nation, nothing, you know, everything is donated in that center, all the furniture, the carpeting, the computers, everything. Not one government dime was spent in it. Every corporation donated it. It's five years old. They've tried to build models in Orlando [Florida] and all of that. The difference is most people view it as moving a lot of services into one place. You have to have a vision, a passion. You have to own it. You gotta see it, feel it, taste it. It has to be an extension of what you're about. That's not--that's the missing element. They don't understand you put out in the universe, it comes back, it makes you stronger, you keep pushing. So, that's what brought me to San Francisco.$$Could you tell us what your title is?$$Deputy district director.$$Okay, thank you. And how long have you been doing this now?$$I've been with SBA [U.S. Small Business Administration] for over twenty years. I've been up here for ten years. I was in San Diego for somewhere between eleven and thirteen years, and Baltimore for about a year-and-a-half to two years it took me to get back to California. I mean really that was the best thing that happened, the SBA, I could use it to move back here.$$It sounds like you like your job?$$I love my job. I know that I'm delivering quality products and services and we're known for it. We have partnerships with all the nonprofits. We give over our space, our facilities to them so that they can share it with their clients. They don't have to try to chase dollars. They get state of the art equipment. They get all of the latest books and reference materials on the market, to use the conference room, the videoconferencing facility. So it's a community of services. And I'm very fortunate that most of these people, because they are nonprofits are called to it because it's a mission. They have a calling for it. So we all have ownership. We know we're making a difference. Many of my partners touch low-income, immigrant communities or people, so it's even more important that you bring 'em the service in a way that they can use it, that you do no harm. And--and if necessary, you teach bus--them that maybe business isn't from them--for them rather, but they walk away with a skill understanding how to manage money, how to write a letter, how to communicate, how to dress. 'Cause, you know, we do it all from A to Z.

A. B. Spellman

Alfred Bennett (A.B.) Spellman, Jr. was born on August 7, 1935 in Elizabeth City, North Carolina. Both his parents were educators. He earned his high school diploma from P.W. Moore High School, where he was a member of the basketball team, glee club and oratorical club.

In 1956, Spellman earned his B.S. degree in political science from Howard University. While at Howard, he was active in the chorus, the Howard Players, and he began his writing career. After graduating, Spellman enrolled in the Howard University Law School. In 1959, Spellman worked as a writer, reviewing jazz artists and music for various magazines such as Metronome and Downbeat. In 1964, he published his first and only book of poems entitled The Beautiful Days.

In 1966, Spellman’s writing career took off when he published his first full-length book, Four Lives in the Bee-Bop Business, an in-depth look at the lives of jazz musicians Cecil Taylor, Ornette Coleman, Herbie Nichols and Jackie McLean. The following year, Spellman joined a group of black poets touring the nation’s historically black colleges. From 1968 until 1969, he worked as a political essayist and poet for Rhythm Magazine, and in 1969, Spellman conducted a lecture series throughout the country teaching at various colleges including Morehouse, Emory and Rutgers. In 1972, Spellman was hired to teach African American studies at Harvard University, where he remained until 1975. That year, he became director of the Arts in Education Study Project for the National Endowment of the Arts (NEA) in Washington, D.C. In 1978, Spellman became the director of the NEA’s Arts Endowment Expansion Program, a position he held until 1993. Continuing his work with the NEA, Spellman next became the special assistant to the chairman and acting deputy chairman for programs. Between 1994 and 1996, he served as associate deputy for program coordination at the NEA, and then became the director of the NEA’s Office of Guidelines and Panel Operations. In 1998, Spellman was appointed the deputy chairman for the Office of Guidelines, Panel and Council Operations for the NEA.

Spellman continues to be an avid writer, and he serves on numerous arts panels and is a member of the Rockefeller Panel an arts, education and Americans, the Jazz Advisory Group and the Advisory Group on the African-American Museum of the Smithsonian Institute.

Accession Number

A2004.251

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/15/2004 |and| 12/7/2004

Last Name

Spellman

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

B.

Schools

P.W. Moore High School

Howard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Alfred

Birth City, State, Country

Elizabeth City

HM ID

SPE02

Favorite Season

Fall

State

North Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Santa Fe, New Mexico

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

8/12/1935

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Cake

Short Description

Federal government official and author A. B. Spellman (1935 - ) is a writer who contributes to various magazines and published his book, Four Lives in the Bee-Bop Business, in 1966. Spellman has taught African American studies at Harvard University, and was the director of several projects for the National Endowment of the Arts.

Employment

National Endowment for the Arts (NEA)

Harvard University

Douglass Residential College

Favorite Color

Green

Timing Pairs
0,0:3600,71:4650,89:5700,101:6225,106:9975,199:10500,207:11175,218:12750,238:13425,251:13950,259:14250,264:14625,270:15000,276:20850,410:22050,433:22350,439:22650,444:36750,583:39334,636:40398,652:40930,660:48225,755:53832,916:56574,938:57009,944:60054,983:71016,1193:82570,1282:83830,1312:89640,1528:99560,1746:104188,1856:106413,1897:106858,1903:107214,1908:113266,1999:113978,2007:131215,2242:131895,2252:133425,2269:134190,2279:134530,2284:138185,2325:138525,2330:140310,2378:140990,2388:148030,2423$0,0:1092,18:1729,26:6570,93:7221,103:8058,114:15654,221:18148,297:28688,436:29618,452:35370,547:37995,574:38745,585:39570,602:44494,644:47214,707:52042,807:52314,812:59556,911:64192,1018:70521,1081:72432,1123:75162,1164:76163,1173:76982,1183:77619,1192:84080,1264:88630,1318:90814,1346:98393,1403:98828,1409:104048,1533:106136,1559:108833,1597:116293,1650:116617,1655:116941,1660:117589,1669:121153,1742:121639,1748:122611,1759:123016,1765:123826,1776:125203,1803:125770,1814:126580,1826:132898,1938:134923,1978:140538,1995:143858,2058:153560,2196:160268,2279:164462,2327:171602,2463:174962,2524:175382,2530:177398,2558:185470,2638:186220,2645:188470,2674:195024,2740:203308,2879:203840,2931:207010,2937
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of A. B. Spellman's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - A. B. Spellman lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - A. B. Spellman describes the circumstances of his birth

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - A. B. Spellman describes his mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - A. B. Spellman describes his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - A. B. Spellman describes his parents' challenges growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - A. B. Spellman describes his mother's family

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - A. B. Spellman describes his father's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - A. B. Spellman describes his father's upbringing and employment

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - A. B. Spellman describes the creation of a consolidated school in Pasquotank County, North Carolina, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - A. B. Spellman describes the creation of a consolidated school in Pasquotank County, North Carolina, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - A. B. Spellman describes his family's move from North Carolina to Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - A. B. Spellman remembers his paternal grandfather

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - A. B. Spellman describes his earliest childhood memory and celebrating holidays

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - A. B. Spellman describes his community in Elizabeth City, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - A. B. Spellman describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - A. B. Spellman describes his elementary school experience in Elizabeth City, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - A. B. Spellman describes his childhood personality

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - A. B. Spellman describes his early musical interests, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - A. B. Spellman describes his early musical interests, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - A. B. Spellman describes his early religious experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - A. B. Spellman describes his time at Elizabeth City's P.W. Moore High School, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - A. B. Spellman describes his time at Elizabeth City's P.W. Moore High School, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - A. B. Spellman remembers his time at Howard University, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - A. B. Spellman remembers his time at Howard University, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - A. B. Spellman recalls developing as a writer at Howard University

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - A. B. Spellman describes his drama activities at Howard University

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - A. B. Spellman describes his literary interests and stint in law school

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - A. B. Spellman describes his transition from Washington, D.C. to New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - A. B. Spellman describes his parents' reaction to his move to New York City and his early writing

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - A. B. Spellman describes New York City's late 1950s political climate

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - A. B. Spellman describes writing for jazz magazines

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - A. B. Spellman describes his early published writing

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - A. B. Spellman recalls the publication of his book of poetry, 'The Beautiful Days'

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - A. B. Spellman describes his book, 'Four Lives in the Bebop Business,' pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - A. B. Spellman describes his book, 'Four Lives in the Bebop Business,' pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - A. B. Spellman describes writing 'Four Lives in the Bebop Business'

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - A. B. Spellman describes his writing and his radio show

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - A. B. Spellman remembers the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - A. B. Spellman describes his political influences during the 1960s

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - A. B. Spellman remembers New York City's arts scene

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - A. B. Spellman describes his changing observations of the South

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - A. B. Spellman remembers his introduction to SNCC in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - A. B. Spellman describes his early contributions to SNCC

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - A. B. Spellman describes the Black Arts Movement in New York City

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - A. B. Spellman remembers Samuel L. Jackson's time at Morehouse College

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - A. B. Spellman remembers demonstrating with students at Morehouse College

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - A. B. Spellman describes his teaching career in the 1970s

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - A. B. Spellman talks about African American students in the 2000s

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - A. B. Spellman describes working for the National Endowment for the Arts, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - A. B. Spellman describes working for the National Endowment for the Arts, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - A. B. Spellman describes his work at National Endowment for the Arts

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - A. B. Spellman reflects upon the NEA's evolution since the 1970s

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - A. B. Spellman describes his work on the NEA Jazz Masters Awards

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - A. B. Spellman describes his poetry manuscript

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - A. B. Spellman talks about the importance of the arts in education, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - A. B. Spellman talks about the importance of the arts in education, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - A. B. Spellman describes his family members' careers

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - A. B. Spellman describes his children's artistic pursuits

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - A. B. Spellman shares career advice for those interested in the arts

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - A. B. Spellman reflects upon his life

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - A. B. Spellman describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - A. B. Spellman narrates his photographs

DASession

1$2

DATape

3$4

DAStory

8$1

DATitle
A. B. Spellman describes New York City's late 1950s political climate
A. B. Spellman describes his book, 'Four Lives in the Bebop Business,' pt. 1
Transcript
When you're in New York [New York], what--what's the--what--what's the political climate like in New York late '50s [1950s], early '60s [1960s]?$$Okay, well, the--again, the Civil Rights Movement is getting bigger and bigger, but largely still, we're talking more about court cases than we are about civil disobedience in late '50s [1950s]. That's starting to pop up, so this would be starting to pop up, but still as I say, mainly it's, it's more about argument than it is about action. And the--basically, the, the scene I moved into was a scene of letters. There were a lot of artists who were very influential in New York at the time who really thought that an artist's responsibility was to make art. Now, there weren't a lot of African American writers in the Village [Greenwich Village] in the Lower East Side [New York, New York] at that particular time, so I'm not hanging out with a whole lot of black people. Someone like Merce Cunningham or John Cage would've said, your responsibility is to make a great piece of work that you can put before people. All this other social stuff is just a distraction from that. All this--all this politics, that, that is just a part of the world that we're not even sure should exist. And--$$Did you agree with that?$$As, as an artist, did I agree with it? Probably not. I didn't think a lot--a lot about it in those days. You know, I mean, I had a strong sense of civil rights because, as I said, having gone through Howard [Howard University, Washington, D.C.] at that time of Brown versus Board [Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, 1954], having seen what an achievement it is, how much it meant. And when I--when I thought about doing law, I thought about doing civil rights law. That, that--that's what I thought I might want to do. So, no, I, I didn't agree with that. But I wasn't yet writing very political work. I actually never have done topical political poetry well. I mean, I have some poems that, that are that way and which I think stand up, but it's, it's not--when--my, my political statements primarily came through essays, which--where I could be much clearer about a political point. But making--I, I, I don't--as I'm not primarily a performance poet, it never has been my skill to translate what might be rhetoric into, into--into art. Some people do it--do it very, very well, but it, it never has been the core of my work as a poet.$We had just began talking about 'Four Lives in the Bebop Business' [A.B. Spellman].$$Um-hm.$$Tell us a little bit about why you wanted to write that book.$$Well, I was approached by a friend who was an editor at Pantheon Books, Sara Golden [Sara Golden Blackburn], and she suggested I should do a book and perhaps, she suggested the idea of, of biographies of four musicians. And I thought about which musicians I'd like to do. And I thought I would like to do musicians who I think were very important to me at that particular time and, and at that time, I was very much associated with writing and support of the jazz avant-garde. The two most prominent members of the avant-garde, or two of the three most prominent members of the avant-garde were Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman. The third person, John Coltrane, I later approached and asked if he would like for me to do a biography of him, and he at that point thought--said he was going through a transition in his life and, no, he would rather wait until later to do such a book, and then he died much too early. But Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman were two people who were the sort of antipodes of this new modernism that was challenging the jazz conventions, which had taken hold during the 1950s after the apex of, of bebop. And these two guys were people I knew very well and lived in near proximity to on the lower east side in, in lower Manhattan [New York, New York]. And so, I, I had access to them. I found them to be interesting people, and I thought the story of how you go about making unconventional and challenging music in an environment, which are required that you make this music in places which are generally associated with popular entertainment, namely bars, that, that those challenges were worth documenting and were worth telling the story of. And so I--so that's why they were chosen. Jackie McLean was a very good friend and was an important member of this--well, important sort of extension of the innovations of Charlie Parker of, of generation before, of the bebop people. And, so Jackie McLean had lived a very interesting and full life, and I wanted to talk about that a great deal. The other person, Herbie Nichols, I wanted to talk about because of his obscurity. He was a musician whom everybody acknowledged was a very gifted and important person who, who had contributed a lot to the musical--to the jazz literature largely through his compositions, and also was an interesting--was a very interesting and original piano stylist, but very, very few people knew him, and I wanted to sort of remedy that.$$And of the four, did you have a favorite?$$A favorite of the four?$$Um-hm.$$I don't know. Ornette, Cecil, and Jackie were all people I listened to a very great deal. I cannot choose one over the other. I listened to them for different reasons, but I couldn't say that one was--one was more important to me than the other.

Robert Stanton

Robert George Stanton was born on September 22, 1940 in Forth Worth, Texas. His mother was a short order cook and his father was a hay contractor. He grew up in Mosier Valley, one of the oldest African American communities in Texas, settled by free slaves. He graduated from I.M. Terrell High School in Forth Worth in 1959.

He earned his bachelor's of science degree from Huston-Tillotson College in Austin in 1963. The summer of his junior year in college he began his career with the National Park Service. Borrowing $250, he bought a train ticket to Wyoming and a park ranger's uniform and worked as a seasonal ranger at Grand Teton National Park. Stanton, along with several other African Americans, was recruited by then Interior Secretary, Stewart Udall who traveled to predominately Black college campuses recruiting students.

In 1963, Stanton began his graduate studies at Boston University and went back to Huston-Tillotson to work as the director of public relations and alumni affairs from 1964 until 1966. That year, he took a full time job with the Park Service as a personnel management and public information specialist in the Washington, D.C. headquarters office. In 1969, he became a management assistant and in 1970, he was appointed superintendent of Virgin Islands National Park in St. Thomas. In 1974, Stanton became deputy regional director of the Southeast Region of the National Park Service in Atlanta and in 1976 he returned to Washington, D.C. as assistant director of park operations. In 1978, Stanton was named deputy regional director of the National Capital Region, where he remained until 1986. In 1987, he returned to headquarters as associate director for operations, and in 1988, he became the first African American to serve as director of the National Park Service. Stanton's nomination for the post by former President Clinton was the first that had to be approved by the U.S. Senate…he was confirmed unanimously. He retired from that position in 2003.

Stanton currently works as an adjunct professor at Texas A&M teaching courses on conservation. He has also taught at Yale University and been the recipient of numerous awards for his civic work and environmental stewardship.

Accession Number

A2004.110

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/27/2004 |and| 8/11/2004

Last Name

Stanton

Maker Category
Schools

I. M. Terrell High School

Mosier Valley School

Huston-Tillotson University

Boston University

First Name

Robert

Birth City, State, Country

Fort Worth

HM ID

STA04

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

National Parks

Favorite Quote

Mankind Differ As The Waves But Are As One As The Sea

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

9/22/1940

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Steak, Potatoes

Short Description

Federal government official Robert Stanton (1940 - ) is the first African American to serve as director of the National Park Service.

Employment

Grand Teton National Park

Huston-Tillotson College

National Park Service

Virgin Islands National Park

Texas A&M University

Yale University

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:2691,71:3036,77:4347,96:4968,106:5658,121:6072,128:12850,197:13522,208:15202,230:21838,331:22174,336:22846,345:27214,394:27550,399:31834,502:42044,638:42668,648:51638,810:52184,824:52652,831:53744,849:54446,862:54992,871:71332,1081:72398,1096:85518,1350:85928,1356:86338,1362:92630,1446:93155,1454:98405,1610:98780,1616:111360,1760:113110,1802:114160,1838:123673,1989:124321,1998:124645,2003:128371,2092:133670,2158:134222,2170:142410,2289:147538,2343:151752,2462:152526,2499:153386,2511:153816,2517:172776,2709:173604,2910:191712,3169:192370,3178:195030,3193$0,0:924,21:1309,27:1771,35:11781,249:12782,265:13244,272:15015,290:16247,311:16555,321:17171,331:17556,337:25882,421:26458,430:27898,457:39535,619:40473,634:40741,639:44359,711:44761,719:45900,735:48647,791:48915,796:49920,807:50188,812:50456,817:52466,872:53002,886:53739,898:58430,916:62804,989:64505,1018:67745,1077:68069,1082:68393,1087:68960,1096:74225,1164:81750,1208:82070,1213:83350,1283:84070,1295:90470,1419:98537,1528:99559,1544:100873,1561:105618,1658:107297,1684:111488,1712:113312,1755:115610,1767:116730,1794:117610,1806:118250,1815:121370,1875:123130,1933:128410,2058:128730,2063:141228,2245:142240,2257:147167,2287:147788,2298:152204,2388:152756,2399:153308,2412:154205,2427:154550,2433:159863,2545:160208,2551:161243,2576:161588,2582:167427,2618:170815,2683:183128,2856:184420,2876:188904,2956:190272,2978:193540,3068:194756,3088:202990,3158:205090,3193:205690,3202:206740,3216:208990,3271:209590,3281:212215,3326:212515,3331:219040,3423:224890,3524
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Robert Stanton's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Robert Stanton lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Robert Stanton describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Robert Stanton describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Robert Stanton talks about his Mosier Valley ancestry and his grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Robert Stanton describes his earliest childhood memory and names his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Robert Stanton talks about the Mosier Valley community in Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Robert Stanton remembers efforts to improve African American children's schooling in Mosier Valley, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Robert Stanton describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Robert Stanton describes his experience at Mosier Valley Elementary School in Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Robert Stanton talks about early adolescence and his brother's death in the Korean War

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Robert Stanton talks about his adolescent influences and busing to I.M. Terrell High School in Fort Worth, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Robert Stanton describes his high school experience in Fort Worth, Texas and his aspirations as a teenager

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Robert Stanton remembers Huston-Tillotson College in Austin, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Robert Stanton remembers being recruited to work for the U.S. Department of the Interior in the summer of 1962

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Robert Stanton remembers working in Grand Teton National Park during the summer of 1962

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Robert Stanton talks about working for Huston-Tillotson College in Austin, Texas and returning to the National Park Service

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Robert Stanton talks about the beginning of his career at the National Park Service and meeting his wife

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Robert Stanton talks about working as superintendent of the U.S. Virgin Islands National Park

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Robert Stanton talks about his work as deputy regional director of the Southeast Region and assistant director of the National Park Service

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Robert Stanton recalls his tenure as deputy regional director of the National Capital Region of the National Park Service

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Robert Stanton talks about climbing the National Park Service hierarchy to serve as the director

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Robert Stanton remembers the director of National Park Service nomination process

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Robert Stanton describes his accomplishments as director of the National Park Service

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Robert Stanton describes congressional oversight hearings he experienced as director of the National Park Service

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Robert Stanton reflects upon African American's interaction with the National Park Service

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Robert Stanton talks about challenges facing the National Park Service

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Robert Stanton talks about what he would like to have done as director of the National Park Service

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Robert Stanton talks about the National Park Service's role in preserving African American history

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Robert Stanton talks about his favorite national parks and the parks he has yet to visit

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Robert Stanton recalls teaching at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut and bringing students to the World Park Congress

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Robert Stanton talks about his current consultation and board work

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Robert Stanton reflects upon how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Robert Stanton reflects upon his life

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Robert Stanton reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Robert Stanton narrates his photograph, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Robert Stanton narrates his photographs, pt.2

DASession

2$2

DATape

2$3

DAStory

5$3

DATitle
Robert Stanton talks about the beginning of his career at the National Park Service and meeting his wife
Robert Stanton describes his accomplishments as director of the National Park Service
Transcript
What were you doing for the [National] Park Service [NPS] in 1966?$$My first appointment was in personnel management and public information.$$And you held that position until 1969?$$Until 1969 and then I was reassigned to, to the National Capital Region [NCR] in a park position as a management assistant.$$Um-hm.$$And I served in that position until 1970. Our director of the park service at that time did something similar to, to what [Secretary of the Interior] Stewart Udall did, he looked at the faces of all of his superintendents from South Pacific to Maine, from Alaska to the U.S. Virgin Islands, and did not see one black face among the hundreds of superintendents. And he too said, "This is a new day," and he and my regional director at that time and--he conferred with the regional director and also with his deputy director and said that we were going to make an appointment and I have the distinction of being, and I say this with all humility, of being the first African American to be appointed by the park service as a park superintendent. The thing that's so interesting is that two individuals who made a--who played a very prominent role in that appointment, were two gentlemen who was at Grand Teton National Park [Wyoming] in '62 [1962], the original director, Russell Dickenson, when I was appointed superintendent, was my first chief ranger. And the gentleman who was the number two for the whole of the park service working with Director [George B.] Hartzog [Jr.], was [Harthon L.] Spud Bill who was the superintendent at Grand Teton, so they had a lot of influence on me. But I might mention the other thing about the Teton experience. As I mentioned earlier, Secretary Udall directed his staff to recruit among a fairly large number of historically black colleges and universities [HBCU], and one of the colleges they attended was Livingstone College in Salisbury, North Carolina. And I don't know how many students were selected but one I know that was selected from there, William D. Kennard [ph.] another good Omega [Psi Phi Fraternity] man I might add, also worked in Grand Teton '62 [1962] and '63 [1963]. And when I came to the Washington [D.C.] area in 1966 for my permanent job, William was a bachelor, and I was a bachelor then, and so we were about to go out on the town here in Washington and he said, "Hey [HistoryMaker] Bob [Robert Stanton], there's this young lady that just finished from Livingstone, she's now working at HUD, [U.S. Department of] Housing and Urban Development, and I've been dating a girl from Livingstone," he said, "why don't we just double date?" I said, "Sounds great to me William," you know. You probably getting two or three dates this week, you know.$$(Laughter) That would be the first of many--$$Yeah, right.$$--this week, right?$$Yeah. So the next thing I know, William was my best man; his brother was in the ministry and his brother was administering the wedding. But Teton has had a lasting experience on me but probably the best because I married Janet Moffatte [Stanton] of South Carolina and the best thing that ever happened to me, yeah, yeah, yeah.$$That's great.$$Thirty-eight years of marriage, yeah.$Tell us a little bit about some of your accomplishments as director [of the National Park Service (NPS)]?$$Well, again, a director, any, any, any accomplishment as a superintendent, management assistant, regional director, or associate director, or director, is in direct proportion to the support that you get from your staff and their motivation and their interest, and I had the best group of federal employees in the National Park Service whom I worked with daily and I think we accomplished a great deal. We accomplished a great deal on several fronts. One is in working directly with [U.S.] Congress to get new authorizations that allow for more revenues to be available to the park service to, to meet some of those needs and congress authorized new legislative authorities for the park service to have more resources at its disposal, and I was very pleased with some of those legislative accomplishments. Also further to congress, congress during my tenure as director approved nine new parks, extended the boundary of I think twenty-something parks. And two parks that came into the system while I was director speak specifically to events associated with African Americans. Little Rock Central High School [National Historic Site, Little Rock, Arkansas], which is very close to me because the nine students who integrated Little Rock Central High School [Little Rock, Arkansas] in 1957 were my peers, and that now is a national historic site. And the Tuskegee Airmen National Historic Site [Tuskegee, Alabama] to commemorate the bravery of those fighters notwithstanding that the [U.S.] Army or the [U.S.] military was segregated but yet they still fought valiantly in World War II [WWII]. But I also I was very proud that congress passed legislation authorizing the [National] Underground Railroad Network to Freedom and it was my great joy--$$Hmm.$$--to be invited by President [William Jefferson "Bill] Clinton to join along with a number of other distinguished citizens including Rodney [E.] Slater who was secretary of transportation at that time, Congressman Carl Stokes [sic. Ambassador Carl Stokes], (unclear) and others to witness him personally signing the Underground Railroad Network to Freedom. And but also on the operational side, I think we improved the quality of interpretation, the visitor experiences when one goes to the park. One of the passions I have is to increase the involvement of young people in a program we inaugurated we call the Public Lands Corps that provided for the expanded involvement of young people. We expanded the Parks Classroom Program. We improved the safety of our employees in the work place. I was very concerned about the number of lost time injuries of our employees suffering back strains or automobile accidents and what have you, so substantially improved that. And certainly the construction of new facilities and the upgrading and maintenance of facilities. Major conservation projects included the restoration of the Everglades National Parks [sic. Everglades National Park, Florida], an agreement to remove some dams out of Olympic National Park in Washington State, alternate transportation systems at the Zion National Park in Utah, also at Acadia [National Park] in Maine. So I think a number of major improvements were made over my roughly four years as the director of the park service. Could have been more had I stayed in longer but that was not to be (laughter).$$And not your choice, not your decision.$$That's right. That's right.