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Alvia Wardlaw

Art historian and curator Alvia J. Wardlaw was born on November 5, 1947 to Virginia Cage and Alvin Wardlaw. She was raised in Houston, Texas and graduated from Jack Yates High School in 1965. Wardlaw earned her B.A. degree in art history from Wellesley College in 1969, and her M.A. degree in art history from New York University in 1986. In 1996, she became the first African American to receive a Ph.D. degree in art history from the University of Texas at Austin.

From 1972 to 1974, Wardlaw worked as a curatorial assistant at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston (MFAH). In 1974, she was promoted to associate curator of primitive art and education and was also hired as an adjunct professor at Texas Southern University, where she went on to serve as assistant and associate professor of art history. From 1973 to 1989, Wardlaw curated a number of exhibitions at various institutions, including African Tribal Art (1973); Roy DeCarava: Photographs (1975); Ceremonies and Visions: The Art of John Biggers (1980); Homecoming: African American Family History in Georgia (1982); John Biggers: Bridges (1986); and the 1989 watershed exhibition Black Art Ancestral Legacy: The African Impulse in African American Art for the Dallas Museum of Art. She subsequently served as an adjunct curator of African American art at the Dallas Museum, and, in 1995, was named curator of modern and contemporary art for the MFAH. Wardlaw went on to organize The Art of John Biggers: View from the Upper Room (1995); The Quilts of Gee’s Bend (2002); Something All Our Own: The Grant Hill Collection of African American Art (2003); and Notes from a Child’s Odyssey: The Art of Kermit Oliver (2005). Wardlaw also became director/curator of the University Museum at Texas Southern University, and continued to work as curator of modern and contemporary art at the MFAH until 2009, when she retired from her position.

Wardlaw has received numerous honors and awards. She was a Fulbright Fellow in West Africa in 1984, won a Fulbright Award for study in Tanzania, East Africa in 1997, was a Senior Fellow for the 2001 American Leadership Forum, and was inducted into the Texas Women's Hall of Fame in 1994. She also received the Award of Merit from the University of Texas at Austin and the Ethos Founders Award from Wellesley College, was recognized as an African American Living Legend by African American News and Issues, and was named Texas Southern University’s Research Scholar of the Year in 2009. In addition, Black Art Ancestral Legacy was named Best Exhibition of 1990 by D Magazine, and The Quilts of Gee’s Bend received the International Association of Art Critics Award in 2003.

Wardlaw has served on the Advisory Boards of the National Black Arts Festival and Hampton University, as well as the Scholarly Advisory Committee of the Smithsonian National Museum of African-American History and Culture. She was also a co-founder of the National Alliance of African and African American Art Support groups in 1998.

Wardlaw lives in Houston, Texas.

Alvia Wardlaw was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 7, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.155

Sex

Female

Interview Date

5/7/2014 |and| 12/3/2016

Last Name

Wardlaw

Maker Category
Middle Name

J.

Schools

Jack Yates High School

Wellesley College

New York University

University of Texas at Austin

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Alvia

Birth City, State, Country

Atlanta

HM ID

WAR18

Favorite Season

Winter

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Any where near water, Tanzania

Favorite Quote

Peace, love and adventures every day.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Texas

Birth Date

11/5/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Houston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Ethiopian

Short Description

Art history professor and curator Alvia Wardlaw (1947 - ) is professor of art history and director/curator of the University Museum at Texas Southern University. She served as the curator of modern and contemporary art for the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston from 1995 to 2009, and has curated the award-winning exhibits, Black Art Ancestral Legacy: The African Impulse in African American Art and The Quilts of Gee’s Bend.

Employment

Museum of Fine Arts in Houston

Texas Southern University

Dallas Museum of Art

University Museum at Texas Southern University

Favorite Color

No, that changes from orange to blue

Kenneth G. Rodgers

Artist and art historian Kenneth Gerald Rodgers was born on October 22, 1949 in Siler City, North Carolina to Cornelia and Johnnie Rodgers, a data entry operator and laborer, respectively. Rodgers’ uncle inspired him to begin drawing at the age of seven, and Rodgers became a young caricaturist. He graduated from Chatham High School in 1967 and received a scholarship to attend North Carolina A&T State University where he majored in art design. At North Carolina A&T State University, Rodgers learned the technical aspects of drawing, painting, design and color, and he mastered skills in still life and portraiture. Rodgers graduated from North Carolina A&T State University in 1971 with his B.S. degree in art design and, in 1972, became a graduate assistant at the Weatherspoon Art Gallery where he studied exhibition design, mounting and crafting. He received his M.F.A. degree from the University of North Carolina, Greensboro in 1973.

Rodgers’ academic career progressed in 1974 when he was named director of the art program at Voorhees College. Leaving Voorhees in 1977, he assumed the position of assistant professor of art at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore. In 1984, Rodgers began the "Art of the Modern World" series in Ocean City, Maryland. In 1990, he joined the Maryland Commission on African American History and Culture and was charged with conserving, promoting and interpreting the history of black Marylanders and became chairman of the commission in 1993. As chairman, he supervised the Banneker-Douglass Museum in Annapolis, Maryland. Also in 1993, Rodgers was named associate professor of African American Art History at the University of Maryland, Eastern Shore and was also named Artist-in-Residence at Mesa State College in Colorado.

In 1996, Rodgers became director of the North Carolina Central University Art Museum, which houses the largest collection of African American art in the state. In this capacity, Rodgers served as organizer and curator of several high profile exhibits including Edward Mitchell Bannister: American Landscape Artist, Re-connecting Roots: The Silver Anniversary Alumni Invitational, Charles White: American Draughtsman, Elizabeth Catlett: Master Printmaker and William H. Johnson: Revisiting an African American Modernist. In 2006, Rodgers was named Professor of Art and Director of the North Carolina University Art Museum. He has published several art compilations including William H. Johnson: Revisiting an African American Modernist and Climbing Up the Mountain: The Modern Art of Malvin Gray Johnson. Rodgers painted the official portrait of the first African American member of the North Carolina Council of State and the first African American State Auditor for North Carolina, Ralph Campbell. Rodgers has received numerous research grants and awards including: a National Endowment for the Humanities for study at the Vatican Museums and the American Academy in Rome, a Fulbright-Hays Study Abroad award for research in Kenya and Tanzania, and grants from the North Carolina Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, the Duke-Semans Fine Arts Foundation, and the Rockefeller Foundation to support museum exhibitions and programs.

Rodgers is the father of two and lives in North Carolina with his wife, Shielda Glover Rodgers.

Kenneth Rodgers was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 22, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.184

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/22/2007

Last Name

Rodgers

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

G.

Schools

Jordan-Matthews High School

North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University

University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Kenneth

Birth City, State, Country

Siler City

HM ID

ROD04

Favorite Season

Summer

State

North Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Africa

Favorite Quote

Nobody's Exempt.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

North Carolina

Birth Date

10/22/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Durham

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Tacos, Fajitas

Short Description

Fine artist, curator, art history professor, and museum director Kenneth G. Rodgers (1949 - ) taught at many universities, and in 2006, was named Professor of Art and Director of the North Carolina University Art Museum. He was a part of the Maryland Commission on African American History and Culture and was charged with conserving, promoting and interpreting the history of black Marylanders.

Employment

North Carolina Central University

University of Maryland Eastern Shore

Voorhees College

Florida A&M University

South Carolina State University

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:1008,24:7740,76:30827,243:55476,527:56334,539:56880,548:59060,559:72800,755:73180,760:95265,1097:96015,1105:111010,1285:131595,1491:132540,1501:139860,1590:142809,1624:164560,1840$0,0:2009,47:7486,88:7962,93:8557,108:14166,197:14430,202:14694,207:15354,219:16014,230:17710,265:25568,414:34566,550:40925,585:41660,594:49704,628:50674,639:51062,646:51547,652:53490,660:58979,722:61142,737:65935,778:66260,784:67896,797:68304,802:68814,808:71262,841:74016,881:77892,949:78300,954:79626,969:80238,984:82278,1027:88128,1051:93333,1107:94464,1124:97424,1144:98066,1156:106930,1236:108926,1252:126650,1388:132383,1474:138652,1504:139324,1523:143040,1564:147448,1643:147883,1649:156262,1775:157052,1791:163160,1888:163445,1894:163673,1899:164357,1912:164756,1921:165269,1931:165782,1941:186210,2148:188518,2160:188894,2165:193302,2203:203870,2268:204225,2274:204509,2279:206490,2284:207474,2298:211460,2318:213070,2332:213651,2341:216970,2374:217586,2382:218554,2394:230950,2515:231490,2524:233264,2545:243330,2662
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Kenneth G. Rodgers' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Kenneth G. Rodgers lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers his maternal great-grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Kenneth G. Rodgers talks about his mother's education and profession

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers his childhood home

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers his neighborhood in Siler City, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes himself as a student

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers his early interest in art

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls the racial tensions in Siler City, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers Corinth A.M.E. Zion Church in Siler City, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes Chatham High School in Siler City, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his decision to attend North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls his first week of college

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his first painting experiences in college

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls his art courses at North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his political and social involvement in college

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls the uprising after Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his decision to attend the University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers his first class in graduate school

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes the facilities at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Kenneth G. Rodgers talks about his artistic influences

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his experiences at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls applying to the North Carolina Museum of Art

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his position at Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls his experiences at Voorhees College in Denmark, South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Kenneth G. Rodgers talks about his family

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Kenneth G. Rodgers shares his favorite memories with his children

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers exhibiting at the Orangeburg Festival of Roses

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his painting, 'Cardplayers'

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Kenneth G. Rodgers talks about his favorite artists

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his own artwork

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls his position at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers his exhibition of Edward Mitchell Bannister's work

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls his neighborhood in Princess Anne, Maryland

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes the Maryland Commission on African American History and Culture

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Kenneth G. Rodgers remembers the Thurgood Marshall Memorial in Annapolis, Maryland

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his position at North Carolina Central University Art Museum

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his exhibition of Charles Wilbert White's work

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls his exhibition of Elizabeth Catlett's work

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Kenneth G. Rodgers describes the work of Malvin Gray Johnson

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Kenneth G. Rodgers recalls the exhibition 'Raising Renee and Other Themes'

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Kenneth G. Rodgers reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Kenneth G. Rodgers reflects upon his artistic inspiration

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Kenneth G. Rodgers narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$5

DAStory

3$9

DATitle
Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his own artwork
Kenneth G. Rodgers describes his position at North Carolina Central University Art Museum
Transcript
Describe another one of your favorite paintings, one you crafted yourself.$$Some years ago, I did a piece depicting two musicians, a cornet player, who happened to be on the right side of the painting, and another African musician playing his version of the xylophone, and the actual name of the instrument escapes me at the moment, but that was a work that allowed me not only to look at physiognomy, but it allowed me to look at these musical instruments and manipulate all kinds of modeling and shading effects as well. The unfortunate thing is that I did complete it and it was able to get into a major exhibit and I looked forward to getting it back, however it was purchased. And I really have mixed feelings about it, and you know it happens a lot with artists.$$What exhibit was it a part of?$$It was an exhibit at the J.B. Speed Art Museum [J.B. Speed Memorial Museum; Speed Art Museum] in Louisville, Kentucky. An exact title escapes me at the moment. But I think frequently artists are faced with this dilemma. Works of art become a part of you and you don't want to let go, but in the case of someone like, like myself, I don't produce work to sell it. I've never thought about it that way. I produce it because I like to do it. And, well that just happened to be a unique situation.$$Do you have any art that captures life in the South, either capturing relationships between white southerners and black southerners?$$I do not. I haven't really looked at that dynamic, but it's something that I plan to do. And I think I should say that one of the reasons I haven't done so is because I'm a bit of a hybrid, in that I'm doing curatorial work while trying to become a painter, and notice my expression, I'll still learning how to paint to the extent that some things have simply fallen through the cracks to coin the expression.$When you left Maryland, what year was that?$$I came to North Carolina in 1996.$$Why?$$I came here primarily because I heard about North Carolina Central University [Durham, North Carolina] and the fact that they had an exhibition space that was larger than the one that I currently worked at [at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore, Princess Anne, Maryland]. So I came to North Carolina Central University as director of their art museum [North Carolina Central University Art Museum, Durham, North Carolina].$$And what's your first memory?$$My first memory is my meeting with my board of directors, and thinking about the challenges that I might have in terms of putting together a body of programming that would do justice to the university, of course, would satiate the board members, but that would also continue this notion that I always had of pulling these artists out from the shadows and presenting them. So that first memories was of that meeting was my first, my very first meeting of the board.$$What was your first accomplishment in that role?$$I think the first accomplishment, certainly from the board's perspective, was to ensure them that they had made the right decision in, in bringing me along, that I would be faithful to the mission of the university, of the university museum.$$What was the mission?$$To promote, conserve and present African American art.$$So what, tell me the artists and the paintings you provide.$$Well, we had already at the museum the nucleus of a broad section of African American artists that we could build on. Almost all of the major artists were there, minus one or two.$$Who were they?$$There were the 19th century icons, Edward Mitchell Bannister, Henry Tanner [Henry Ossawa Tanner], Robert Scott Duncanson. There was also a generous representation of WPA [Works Progress Administration; Work Projects Administration] era artists. There were contemporary artists, including MacArthur winners [MacArthur Fellowship]. So the notion was to use these artists as a point of departure and to develop the (unclear) exhibits around what was already there. And I think we've probably been able to do that in, in some measure.$$What was the most startling experience for you?$$Well, I think the most startling experience might have been attempting to reconcile realistic acquisitions, plan and budget against what was in place because essentially there was not very much in place for acquisition so the, the first call of order is to add to the collection, and if you have the nucleus of, of works from various periods, how do you then add to those, and where do you, more importantly, get the monies from to do it?

Leslie King-Hammond

Artist, historian, educational administrator and curator Leslie Ann King-Hammond was born on August 4, 1944 to Evelyne Alice Maxwell King and Oliver King. King-Hammond is of Caribbean ancestry and grew up in South Jamaica and Hollis, Queens, New York. She attended New York City Public Schools and won a full stipend-tuition scholarship by the SEEK Grant at the City University of New York, Queens College. King-Hammond accepted the scholarship, attended Queens College and graduated in 1969, earning her B.F.A. degree. She went on to earn her M.A. and Ph.D. degrees from John Hopkins University in 1973 and 1975 respectively.

King-Hammond officially started her career after finishing her undergraduate education in 1969 serving as Chairman of the Art Department for the Performing Arts Workshops of Queens, New York. She remained in this position until 1971, when she became program writer for Harlem Youth Opportunities Unlimited (HARYOU) in Harlem, New York. HARYOU-ACT, Inc. worked to increase opportunities in education and employment for young blacks in Harlem. In 1973, King-Hammond began lecturing at the Maryland Institute College of Art. By 1976, she was promoted to Dean of Graduate Studies at the Maryland Institute College of Art, a position she still holds. Between 1977 and 1981, King-Hammond served as Doctoral Supervisor for Howard University’s Department of African Studies. Between 1980 and 1982, she served as a panelist for the National Endowment for the Arts. Between 1983 and 1987, King-Hammond worked as Commissioner for the Civic Design Commission in Baltimore, Maryland. Between 1990 and 1996, she served as art consultant for the Afro-American Historical & Cultural Museum. Between 1985 and 1998, King-Hammond served as Project Director of the Phillip Morris Scholarships for Artists of Color. From 2000 to the present, she has served on the Board of Directors of the International House of Art Critics.

King-Hammond has been honored and awarded several times over during her career including the Kress Fellowship, 1974-1945; Mellon Grant for Faculty Research at the Maryland Institute College of Art, 1984; the Trustee Award for Excellence in Teaching, 1986; and the National Endowment for the Arts Award, 2001.

In 2007, King-Hammond was elected Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Reginald F. Lewis Museum of Maryland African American History and Culture.

King-Hammond was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 26, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.164

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/26/2007

Last Name

King-Hammond

Maker Category
Organizations
Schools

P.S. 104, The Bays Water School

P.S. 142, Shimer Junior High School

Andrew Jackson High School

State University of New York at Buffalo

The New School for Social Research

Queens College, City University of New York

Johns Hopkins University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Leslie

Birth City, State, Country

New York

HM ID

KIN11

Favorite Season

Spring

Sponsor

Jonathan Green Studios, Inc

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

Anywhere

Favorite Quote

I'm Blessed To Be Vertical.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Maryland

Birth Date

8/4/1944

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Baltimore

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Ice Cream, Nuts, Fruit

Short Description

Installation artist, academic administrator, art history professor, and curator Leslie King-Hammond (1944 - ) was elected Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Reginald F. Lewis Museum of Maryland African American History and Culture.

Employment

General Electric

Maryland Institute College of Art

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Burgundy Reds

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Leslie King-Hammond's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her trip to Barbados

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her mother's childhood in Barbados

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her mother's education and career

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about the Jamaica neighborhood in Queens, New York

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her father's involvement with the Universal Negro Improvement Association

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her father's occupation

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her early experiences of racial discrimination

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers seeing a poster of Emmett Till

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her early education

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her early interest in art

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her family's response to her art

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls the early inspiration for her artwork

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her lessons at the Brooklyn Museum Art School in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her piano lessons

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond describes one of her early self-portraits

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls volunteering at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her extracurricular activities in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her early feminist outlook

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers leaving the church, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers leaving the church, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her experience at the State University of New York at Buffalo

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers working for General Electric

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers teaching art at a community program

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls receiving a full scholarship to Queens College in Queens, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her clothing design business

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her opposition to the Vietnam War

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers the March on Washington

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her admission to Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her studies at Queens College in Queens, New York

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers the assassination of Malcolm X

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls the assassination of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls how activism informed her artwork, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls how activism informed her artwork, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about activist art groups

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about the National Conference of Artists

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls the founders of the National Conference of Artists

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her Search for Education, Elevation and Knowledge fellowship

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her graduation from Queens College in Queens, New York

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her Horizon Fellowship to John Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her political activism at John Hopkins University

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls discrimination at Johns Hopkins University, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls discrimination at Johns Hopkins University, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls the challenges she faced to obtain a Ph.D. degree

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her dissertation, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her dissertation, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls experiencing sexual harassment at Johns Hopkins University

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls obtaining her position at Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her deanship at Maryland Institute College of Art

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her fellowship program for artists of color

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about discrimination in the art field, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about discrimination in the art field, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her writing process for her publications

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about the representation of black artists in education

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls curating 'Black Printmakers and the WPA'

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls curating 'Art as a Verb'

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her search for a white rooster, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her search for a white rooster, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond reflects upon her personal life

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond remembers her exhibit, 'Three Generations of African American Women Sculptors'

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her research for 'Three Generations of African American Women Sculptors'

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond describes the challenges faced by female artists

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her installation, 'Barbadian Spirits'

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond describes the development of her artwork

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about Seneca Village in New York City

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond reflects upon New York City's slave history

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her collaboration with Jose J. Mapily, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her collaboration with Jose J. Mapily, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her research on Seneca Village in New York City

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Leslie King-Hammond recalls her exhibit, 'Agents of Change: Women, Art and Intellect'

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her home in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Leslie King-Hammond describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Leslie King-Hammond reflects upon her life

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Leslie King-Hammond reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her sons, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Leslie King-Hammond talks about her sons, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 11 - Leslie King-Hammond describes how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$6

DAStory

10$4

DATitle
Leslie King-Hammond recalls her early interest in art
Leslie King-Hammond recalls discrimination at Johns Hopkins University, pt. 1
Transcript
When did you discover your artistic talent?$$Oh, I, I knew early on that I was, I had a predisposition for art, that I, that I loved to make things. That I just was impassioned with art. I was also extremely curious which I think made my mother [Evelyne Maxwell King] uncomfortable about the whole idea of how does an artist become an artist. Because I was also impassioned with the fact that my childhood was not normal because periodically I would have to have eyes made for me. And, so, when I was growing up, I had to go to a glass blowers which was a very old world tradition. Now they make them out of synthetics and plastics and whatever. But, at the time, I would have to sit with this, this master who would literally blow these glass bubbles. And, I can remember vividly being so mesmerized by the process of how he would craft from this bubble of molten glass, this incredible delicate eye that I would have to wear. You know, I didn't really care that I was wearing an artificial eye. I just wanted to go and watch him make eyes, okay. I was just curious. And, so, I would ask my mother questions like, "How did he learn to do that?" Or, "Are people with handicaps and challenges more predisposed to have these artistic talents?" And, since she was in medicine, it was kind of disconcerting for her, her to have to answer these kinds of questions 'cause she hadn't thought about it in that way because she was being the overprotective mother. But, as I began to increasingly read, because she would get nursing journals and medical journals just to keep up with the field, so I would read them. And, I would find the articles and variably about research that was done on people with different kinds of challenges and how, what happens with the body when one area is compromised the other area, another area will compensate. Well, that's that left brain, right brain thing. And, so what happens is, is that, you know, the left brain which organizes and keeps everything structurally in place, you understand, when it gets damaged or that sector of the body get damaged it responds to the left brain. This right brain thing kicks in and you have this enormous capacity that begins to compensate for the loss that's on the left side. And, I began to understand it more when I finally went to college [Queens College, Queens, New York] and I had a professor, a painting professor, who explained to me exactly what was happening. Because at one point I went to him because I was taking color theory class and he was making us go through various exercises of color compass- comparisons and intensities. And, I went to him, not knowing, because it had not been explained to me, and I said to him, "I have singular vision and I'm not sure that I'm gonna be able to respond to these problems." And, he looked at me, he says, "I know." And, I said, "How do you know?" He said, "Because you're the only one in the class who can really see what I'm teaching." He said, "Because you have singular vision," he said, "your depth perception cannot be based on a black to white to grey scale." He says, "You have to use color." He says, "You've been using color for so long to measure distances." That means, how to step up on a high plane. How to navigate through shadows. He said, he says, "You're so ultra-sensitive to color," he says, "every problem you do," he say, "you can't fail because you've already mastered it unconsciously." He said, "This is the first time, you've probably been able to talk about it with somebody who understands the dynamics of it." After that, it was like, bam (claps hands), somebody finally told me, broke the key, the magic box was open, I went "Yes, okay, (makes noise)." And, after I got that piece of information I could, you know, I was, I was cool. I was just cool.$So I had to walk into the department chair's office and ask her point blank, "Why is it that I was not informed of my status when I was really moved into a position to take this exam without proper preparation?" And, that I knew that in twenty-four hours, they knew who passed the exams. And, she told me that, "Well, Leslie [HistoryMaker Leslie King-Hammond] the committee's decided that, yes, you passed," and she said under her breath, "You passed very well." She wouldn't look me in the eyes. She just said, "You passed very well." And, I'm just sitting there looking at her, and I said, "And?" She said, "But, it's the decision of the committee that you're extremely talented and you can do whatever you wanna do and you don't really need a doctorate to go any further." And, I said, "Oh, really." I said, "And, how did you come up with that?" "Well, we really don't have any more money in your fellowship package and, you know, if you can come up with the money we might entertain you coming back in the fall." I said, "Might entertain?" I said, "I'm not making any sense of this at all." She says, "Well, I'm just doing this, you know, as a maternal thing for your, for your own good." So, that's when it just hit me and I just sort of went politely ballistic and I said, this is Dr. Phoebe Stanton [Phoebe Baroody Stanton], I said, "Dr. Stanton, please be advised that I have a very good black mother [Evelyne Maxwell King] in New York [New York], who really talks very much like you and wants me to leave here because this has not been a kind or friendly place to study. However, I do believe that I had to sign a letter of contractual agreement and return it to your office, to this office at Johns Hopkins [Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Maryland], indicating that I accept the terms of this fellowship. So, as far as I'm concerned, it's on me whether and when I terminate this relationship." Well, she was absolutely undone. She was livid. And, I said, "I have no doubt that you will be hearing from me again. Because I will be back in the fall. And, I will seek to resolve this." And, I walked up out of the office. I walked straight across campus to the president's office, and I walked in and I said to his executive assistant, and he had just been hired. This new African American administrator who was gonna oversee Hopkins Hospital [The Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland] and Hopkins' Homewood Campus, I said, "My name is Leslie King. I have just been thrown out of the art history department after passing my doctoral exams, with flying colors, and I am told that I am too talented and that I don't need this degree. I wanna see the president now."

Amalia Amaki

Amalia Amaki was born Linda Faye Peeks on July 8, 1949 in Atlanta, Georgia to Mary Lee and Norman Peeks, a former musician with the Deep South Boys of Macon, Georgia. Amaki developed a love for script writing, drawing, bold colors and textures at an early age. She instinctively knew that she would change her name. Amaki attended Georgia State University and majored in journalism and psychology. In 1970, she won the Sigma Delta Chi Award for Feature Writing and was the first and only African American on campus to join this journalism organization. In 1971, Amaki received her B.A. degree. She also obtained her B.A. degree from the University of New Mexico in photography and art history and worked as a museum assistant at the University Art Museum for two years while she pursued her degree. In 1974, she changed her name to Amalia Amaki.

In 1985, Amaki went to France as an Emory University Foreign Study Fellow. She also became a contributing writer to Art Papers and an art critic for Creative Loafing; papers local to the Atlanta area. Amaki earned her M.A. degree in modern European and American art and a Ph.D. in twentieth century American art and culture from Emory University in the Institute of Liberal Arts. From 1987 to 2000, she taught art history at Spelman and Morehouse Colleges; Atlanta College of Art; Kennesaw State University, Kennesaw, Georgia; and North Georgia College and State University, Dahlonega, Georgia. She served as a guest curator at the Southern Arts Federation in 1996; the Museum of Fine Arts at Spelman College in 1997 and 1998; the Marietta-Cobb Museum of Art in 1999; and the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute in 2004. In the summer of 2004, Amaki was a visiting scholar at the Student Art Centers International (SACI) in Florence, Italy. In 2001, she became Curator of the Paul R. Jones Collection of Art and Assistant Professor of Art in the Art History and Black Studies Departments at the University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware. Amaki was also a Scholar-in-Residence at Spelman College in Atlanta for the 2005 – 2006 school year.

Amaki’s art captures the lives of African women of the Diaspora through media from everyday life (photography, quilts, buttons, boxes and household items). Her work redefines the lives of past and present African American heroines and heroes and contrasts their depiction in the mainstream media. She has published a number of articles including “Art: The Paul Jones Collection in Art” and Everyday Life: The Paul Jones Collection, an exhibition catalog by the Marietta-Cobb Museum of Art, Marietta, Georgia in 1999.

Amaki holds memberships in the College of Art Association, American Association of University Professors, Emory University Alumni Board of Governors, Delaware Center for the Contemporary Arts, High Museum of Art, Georgia Museum of Art, and Spelman College Museum of Fine Arts. Her solo works, Amalia Amaki: Boxes, Buttons and Blues have also been on exhibition at the National Museum of Women in the Arts, Washington, D.C.

Amaki splits her time in Atlanta, Georgia and Newark, Delaware.

Accession Number

A2006.017

Sex

Female

Interview Date

2/15/2006 |and| 9/9/2007

Last Name

Amaki

Maker Category
Organizations
Schools

Hope-Hill Elementary School

David T. Howard High School

Georgia State University

University of New Mexico

Emory University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Amalia

Birth City, State, Country

Atlanta

HM ID

AMA01

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Santa Fe, New Mexico, Beausoleil, France

Favorite Quote

The Glass Is Always Half Full.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

7/8/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Cookies

Short Description

Mixed media artist, curator, and art history professor Amalia Amaki (1949 - ) has served as the curator of the Paul R. Jones Collection of Art, and as assistant professor of art in the art history and black studies departments at the University of Delaware. She is also a scholar-in-residence in the fine arts department at Spelman College.

Employment

Southern Airways

APEX Museum (Atlanta, Georgia)

Spelman College

University of Delaware

University of Alabama

Paul Jones Collection

Favorite Color

Blue

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Amalia Amaki's interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes her mother's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes her mother's cooking

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki describes her father's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki describes her parents' childhoods

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki describes how her parents met, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki describes her father's occupations

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Amalia Amaki remembers holiday celebrations from her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Amalia Amaki describes her mother's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki describes how her parents met, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki shares how her mother began having children

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes her mother's fear of storms

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes her maternal grandparents

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki describes her mother's siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki describes her father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki describes her father's singing career

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki recalls drawing at John Hope Elementary School

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki describes her childhood neighborhood in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes her childhood community in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes her mother's role in the community

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki recalls attending Wheat Street Baptist Church

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki describes the department stores in Atlanta, Georgia, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki recalls the shoe stores in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki describes the department stores in Atlanta, Georgia, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki remembers the seamstress in her childhood neighborhood

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki talks about Auburn Avenue in Atlanta

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki lists her siblings

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki explains why her mother changed her name

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki remembers being teased about her name as a child

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki explains how she chose her name, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki explains how she chose her name, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki recalls her favorite teacher at John Hope Elementary School, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki recalls her favorite teacher at John Hope Elementary School, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki describes her childhood personality

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes the games she played with her siblings

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki recalls playing games with her family

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki recalls receiving baby chickens for Easter

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki describes her rebellious personality as a child

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki recalls Atlanta's Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki remembers her early career aspirations

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Amalia Amaki describes her high school extracurricular activities

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Amalia Amaki recalls her decision to attend Georgia State College, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki recalls applying for college

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki recalls her decision to attend Georgia State College, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes her experience of studying journalism

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki recalls her induction into the Society of Professional Journalists

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki explains her B.A. degree in journalism and psychology

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki describes her experience of racial discrimination at Georgia State College

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki recalls Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki recalls Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Amalia Amaki remembers the death of her childhood friend

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Slating of Amalia Amaki's interview, session 2

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki describes the impact of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki recalls writing for The Signal

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes her classmates at Georgia State University

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki remembers inspirational speakers at Georgia State University

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki talks about working for Southern Airways

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki describes her international travels

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki describes the University of New Mexico

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaka recalls meeting Georgia O'Keeffe

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes her friends in New Mexico

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes the cultures of New Mexico

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki recalls her photography professor, Betty Hahn

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki recalls her printmaking professor, Garo Antreasian

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki describes her additions to the University of New Mexico's museum collection

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki recalls her first curatorial position

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki recalls her employment while studying at Emory University

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki describes her favorite artists and photographers

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki describes her professors and classmates at Emory University

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki remembers teaching at Spelman College and studying abroad

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki recalls completing her master's degree

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki talks about earning her Ph.D. degree

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki recalls her assistant professorship at Spelman College

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki recalls working at the University of Delaware

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Amalia Amaki recalls teaching at Studio Arts College International

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Amalia Amaki describes the inspiration behind her quilts, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki explains how her button work was inspired by her childhood

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki recalls how she began creating art

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki recounts the first sale of a piece of her art

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes her drawings of children with oversized eyes

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki describes her button artwork, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Amalia Amaki describes her button artwork, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki shares an anecdote about her button artwork

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki describes her artwork commissioned for Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport

Tape: 10 Story: 9 - Amalia Amaki shares what she learned from collecting buttons

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki talks about the use of buttons as currency

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Amalia Amaki describes the inspiration behind her work

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Amalia Amaki shares her ideas for future artistic projects

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Amalia Amaki describes the Paul R. Jones Collection of American Art, pt. 1

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Amalia Amaki describes the Paul Jones Collection of American Art, pt. 2

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Amalaia Amaki describes her art exhibitions

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Amalia Amaki describes the collectors of her art

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - Amalia Amaki talks about her plans for the future

Tape: 11 Story: 9 - Amalia Amaki reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 11 Story: 10 - Amalia Amaki describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Amalia Amaki narrates her photographs

DASession

2$2

DATape

8$10

DAStory

2$7

DATitle
Amalia Amaka recalls meeting Georgia O'Keeffe
Amalia Amaki shares an anecdote about her button artwork
Transcript
I had wonderful experiences, interactions with Georgia O'Keeffe, which was one the highlights of my life, and--$$Well, tell me about that.$$I, I, I had befriended a, an architect who was in the Albuquerque [New Mexico] area. And he was, he had this very almost surrogate son kind of relationship with, with O'Keeffe. And one Saturday morning, it wasn't unusual for him to call and say, "What are you doing?" And he, we'd go on these adventures. We did that about three times. Well, on this particular occasion he said, "Well, you know, get some stuff and we're going on an adventure." And I got really kind, a little nervous because I didn't know him that well at that point. And all I could see was, you know, the city was getting further and further away, and I'm looking out on this desert, and I don't see anything. And I'm starting to envision in my mind, you know, I'm seeing, you know, UNM [University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, New Mexico] student found dead on the, on the Mesa. You know, I'm just, all this stuff is running 'cause I really didn't know him that well. And eventually I see this structure. And we get closer and closer, and he's driven me to her house, her ranch. And the minute I step out of the car, once I realize where I am, I get excited. I step out of the car, and he pulls off, and there's this cloud of smoke. And as the smoke clears, I look and sort of off in an angle to my left is this tiny woman. I had no idea she was so small. But then, you know, how you just sense that you're being watched. And I sort of look off at this angle to the right, and here are two little brown chows. And they look at me, and then they look at her, and they look at me, and they look at her. And I know those are not, you know, little kiddie dogs, you know. I know these are dangerous dogs, potentially dangerous. And finally she says in this really strong voice: "What are you doing here?" And I said, "Well, I came to see you." And she said, "Why?" And I said, "Don't you know who you are?" And she laughs, and the dogs just kind of look off and walk off, and they, it's as if they say oh, she's all right. And he [sic. she] says, "That rascal. I'm gonna get him." So she knew exactly who, who had done this. But I was with her, I can't remember now if it was two hours, four hours, but it was long enough for her to, she had made tomato soup from tomatoes. This woman had a garden in the middle of the desert and grew little small sections of vegetables. So we had tomato soup from tomatoes in her garden. We had a very interesting conversation until I mentioned Alfred Stieglitz. And she just said, "You know he's dead; he's dead you know." And I knew that was her way of saying she didn't wanna talk about him. But that was one of my--and she gave me good advice when she found out I was, I was interested in art. And she asked me how did I define myself, and I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "If you're an artist, then that's how you define yourself." And she talked about how she did not consider herself to be the best, best painter. That she said you know, "It's not about always being the best." She said, "I know I saw painters who were probably better painters than I was." She said, "But when my opportunity came, I was ready." So she said, "Always have work. Warehouse it if you have to, because when the opportunity comes, if you're not ready, they won't wait for you. They move on." It was good advice. She said you know--she, she never talked race, but she said, "I know you, you're gonna run into situations where people treat you unfairly for all the wrong reasons." She said, "Don't get mad. Become successful. That's the best way to get even." She said that's what she did. So it was a wonderful two, I can't remember now if two, four hours when, when, when Bart [ph.] came back. That was the, the architect who took me out there--$One of my favorite stories that really happened was after I got the commission in 1994, when I got a commission to do a piece for the airport [Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, Atlanta, Georgia] as a part of the, the activities that were going on because the Olympics [1996 Summer Olympics, Atlanta, Georgia] were coming--$$The Atlanta [Georgia] airport?$$The Atlanta airport, the Atlanta airport. And I did that piece, and years later I got a phone call from a man who said, "You don't know me, but it's taking me six months to get in touch with you." And he said, "I just had to tell you how important that piece at the airport is to me personally." And I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "I have been," he said he had been estranged from his daughter and his grandkids, as a result of being estranged from his daughter. He didn't tell me what it was about, but he said he had a flight, and the flight was departing from Gate E5, which is the gate where the artwork is. He said and the flight was delayed, and he said, "I was sitting there and I suddenly looked up and looked at your piece." And he said, "And I looked at that band going across the center connecting the two pie shapes." He said, "And I looked and I looked," and he said, "Those buttons look familiar." And he said he got up and he looked again. He said, "Those were the same buttons that were on the uniform that I wore," he said that he wore when he was in the Korean War, when he fought in the Korean War. And he said he thought about it and thought about it. He thought about when his--it made him reflect on his, his relationship with his wife, with the children, and he said he suddenly realized that, that thing that he had with his daughter made no sense. And he said, "I missed the flight because I rushed to a phone." You know, everybody didn't have cell phones. But he said he rushed to a phone, and he called his daughter. And he said, "Listen, I'm in Atlanta." His daughter lives here. He said, "I'm in Atlanta. I have to fly out tonight, but I want to come back, and I want to meet with you. I want us to get back together, and I want to know my grandkids." And he said he came back about three weeks later. This was before 9/11 [September 11, 2001], so you could literally come into the airport without a ticket and get to a gate. And he said he brought his grandkids. He sat under that piece, and he said he told them what it was like being in the war. And he said he just felt such a bond with his grandkids and had reunited with his daughter. And he said you know, "Your piece played a part in that." He said so--isn't that amazing? I mean a button, you know, but I he said he looked up there, and he said, "That was one I had on my uniform." Isn't that--$$Describe it.$$--amazing?$$Yeah--