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Mujahid Ramadan

Diversity and human relations consultant Imam Mujahid Ramadan was born November 17, 1951, on the outskirts of Lake Providence, Louisiana. Raised by his stepfather and his mother, Flenorte and Elizabeth Harris, Ramadan attended Carroll Elementary School in Louisiana. When his family moved to Las Vegas, Nevada, Ramadan attended Kit Carson Elementary, J.D. Smith Junior High School, and graduated from Valley View High School in 1970. Ramadan was involved as a youth, in his church, as a youth member of the NAACP, and later as a member of the Black Panther Party. Ramadan attended Northeastern Oklahoma A & M Junior College, but dropped out and returned to Las Vegas. Ramadan worked at the West Side Boy’s Club where a hydrocephalic youngster named John “Bookie” Dorsey inspired him to return to school. Ramadan earned his B.A. degree in sociology from the University of Nevada at Las Vegas in 1976. He later became director of the West Side Boys Club.

Ramadan embraced Islam in 1975, took a Muslim name in 1981, and eventually became resident Imam of the Masjid As-Sabur in Las Vegas, Nevada, and vice-chair of the American Muslim Council (AMC). Ramadan served in the probation department of Clarke County Juvenile Services and became a policy advisor to the Las Vegas Police Department, Sheriff’s Department, and a number of elected officials including Senator Harry Reid. In 1989, Ramadan was appointed Nevada State Drug Policy Director by Governor Bill Miller. Ramadan was later appointed CEO of Nevada Partners Organization, Inc.; he also served as a national executive board member of the National Conference for Community and Justice.

Ramadan later became a member of the local interfaith council and developed a reputation for being an expert in diversity awareness training. Ramadan served as an advisor to the President’s Faith Community Initiative; a board member of the Inter-Faith Council for Workers Justice; a participant in the National Leadership Summit on Race Relations and America's Public Education System; and a trainer for the Justice Department Violent Crimes Program.

In 1983, Ramadan founded the diversity training firm, M.R. Consulting, later renamed Ramadan Ballard and Associates. Ramadan went on to serve as CEO of Ballard Communications, which he founded in 2001.

Accession Number

A2004.184

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/29/2004

Last Name

Ramadan

Maker Category
Schools

Northeastern Oklahoma A&M College

Carroll Elementary School

J.D. Smith Junior High School

Valley High School

Kit Carson International Academy

First Name

Mujahid

Birth City, State, Country

Lake Providence

HM ID

RAM01

Favorite Season

Ramadan

State

Louisiana

Favorite Vacation Destination

New York, New York

Favorite Quote

With Every Difficulty, There Is Relief.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Nevada

Interview Description
Birth Date

11/17/1951

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Las Vegas

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Chicken

Short Description

Business consulting chief executive and imam Mujahid Ramadan (1951 - ) served as the resident Imam of the Masjid As-Sabur in Las Vegas, Nevada, and vice-chair of the American Muslim Council. In addition to holding these positions, Ramadan has been involved with several interfaith commissions, and has acted as an advisor on interfaith and diversity matters on the national level.

Employment

West Side Boys Club

Masjid As-Sabur - Las Vegas, Nevada

American Muslim Council (AMC)

Clarke County Juvenile Services

Las Vegas Police Department

Las Vegas Sheriff’s Department

Office of Senator Harry Reid

State of Nevada

Nevada Partners Organization, Inc.

Ramadan, Ballard and Associates

Ballard Communications

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Mujahid Ramadan's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan talks about Emmett Till and the Deacons for Defense and Justice

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his family's involvement in the Deacons for Defense and Justice

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon the philosophy of nonviolence in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his mother's personality and profession

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his father and brother's deaths

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan recalls his childhood in Lake Providence, Louisiana

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan remembers his teachers at Carroll Elementary School in Lake Providence, Louisiana

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his father's personality

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his siblings and stepfather

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his stepfather's personality

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Mujahid Ramadan recalls growing up in segregated Las Vegas, Nevada

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Mujahid Ramadan remembers the schools he attended in Las Vegas, Nevada

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon the differences between Nevada and Louisiana

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Mujahid Ramadan recalls his high school football coach, Overton Curtis

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his childhood influences

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan describes the African American community in Las Vegas, Nevada

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his experiences at Northeastern Oklahoma Junior College

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his literary interests and the Black Panther Party

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan remembers the Boys Club of Clark County in Nevada

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Mujahid Ramadan recalls being hired at the Boys Club of Clark County

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Mujahid Ramadan remembers the young men at the Boys Club of Clark County

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Mujahid Ramadan recalls meeting his wife, Sumayah Ramadan

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Mujahid Ramadan describes what attracted him to Islam

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his conversion to Islam

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his early uncertainties about Islam

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan describes reconciling his African American identity and Islamic beliefs

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan explains what his Islamic name means

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan explains the history of the Arabic language

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon issues in Islam, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon issues in Islam, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Mujahid Ramadan describes schisms within the Nation of Islam and Warith Deen Mohammed

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan explains the difference between American Muslims and Arab Muslims, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan explains the difference between American Muslims and Arab Muslims, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan explains the difference between American Muslims and Arab Muslims, pt. 3

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan explains how he became a cultural diversity specialist

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan talks about spirituality versus religion

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his role as drug policy director for the State of Nevada

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his role at Nevada Partners

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his move from Nevada Partners to Ballard Communications

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan describes the influx of African American professionals in Las Vegas, Nevada

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan describes the different cultural experiences for minorities in America

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan describes unique features of the African American experience, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Mujahid Ramadan describes unique features of the African American experience, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon the need to make America an inclusive nation

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon his life, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon his life, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Mujahid Ramadan reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Mujahid Ramadan describes his mother's response to his success

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Mujahid Ramadan describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

5$3

DATitle
Mujahid Ramadan describes his family's involvement in the Deacons for Defense and Justice
Mujahid Ramadan describes reconciling his African American identity and Islamic beliefs
Transcript
Maybe you can, if you can, I know the deacons [Deacons for Defense and Justice] have been written about, I don't think exhaustively or anything but they've been written since that, those days and there's a, there's an impression that they were, that some have written there were a whole lot of 'em, some have written that there weren't that many of 'em, but being an organization that wasn't really out in, you know all out in public anyway.$$No.$$And identified as, I mean what's your impression of--who were the--just for the record like who, what's your impression? Who were the deacons and how many do you think there were and how much did they do?$$Probably not a large, large number. I think they were very select because I, I knew some. Now I know that I can look back and see who were and they were a very small--some--very small group. I knew my father [Johnny Young (ph.)], my [maternal] grandfather and my father were, but very small and select. Most of them probably were religious men who were members of churches and who, who saw, they saw a different purview of you know not so much turn the other cheek. I think they saw that more spiritually and symbolically, but not so much in the physical sense of turn the other cheek. I think it was their religious and spiritual convictions that led them to being who they were and that feeling as though they had a right based on you know the law of God you know to defend and, and protect themselves. So I think that was a basic foundation to it, and, and probably I, I use to hear every now and then while sitting on the porch and hearing discussion about, "Well you know the white man in Louisiana was a different kind of white man," so he wasn't one who you could possibly interact with while, while many of them publicly had relationships with the, the transitional non-violence of Dr. King [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.]. That wasn't something they could actually practice with everybody because they didn't think some people were accepting to that so they felt as though the best way to deal with them is the way they dealt, and, and because the, the Civil Rights Movement while it was visible but it never had a stronghold in Louisiana because Dr. King wouldn't come there because of the deacons, because of what they practiced or the way they approached things--I would say the way they would approach things that, that affected that, and it--I notice sitting around, it was only like sitting around on the front porch and hearing about it sometimes and then sometimes then be told to, "Get, get outta here boy ain't nobody talking to you," but being--I, I guess that maybe the fact that being that my name was Deacon I was privy to at least hearing so maybe at a certain stage in life I would remember you know what that was about.$$Yeah, there's a--well, I know there's, there've been rumors that the deacons had--were followed certain civil rights marches just to make sure that if anybody you know was fired upon that there'd be some kind of protection, you know available and that sort of thing, but I, I don't you know you hear a lot of stories but you never know what really.$$Well you never knew who they were, I mean you know I was just in a family that they were a part of but you never knew like knew publicly who they were and they, they were like shadows you know pretty much now that I look back on it and now that I look back and, and being in the audience with my grandfather sometimes I can look back and say, "Oh, okay, this person was and who wasn't," you know you could tell by the way they talked to one another. I remember language like, "How you doing pilgrim?" "Hey pilgrim, how you doing?" But he wouldn't call everybody pilgrim and there weren't you know and then the other--not everybody called him pilgrim back. The ones he called pilgrim they called him pilgrim. So I probably concluded that they were, they were in that group because it was just such a small portion of them that were like that and most of them were in church.$What did you think about the Nation of Islam or I know a lot of black people in the 19--early, late '60s [1960s] and '70s [1970s] especially young men admired Malcolm X.$$Yeah, um-hm.$$And--$$And we were, yeah we were swept up in that, but, but the Black Panther Party gave us perspective that, that was, that was in somewhat of an antithesis, they were antithesis of one another because in the Nation of Islam remember the black man was seen as a God, but the philosophy of the Black Panther Party is that oppression didn't have any color, you know it was more universal in its nature and I think that was legitimate there. Remember Malcolm spawned the Black Panther Party, so I had this thing with the Nation that okay, y'all say the white man is a devil but you know in the Black Panther Party I've read, I read more of a broader language than just the cultural language of the Nation of Islam. So I, I--that's why I didn't come into the Nation of Islam, I had some spiritual yearning, it was the just the problem of calling somebody a devil I had a problem with, and so then, so I didn't--but I remember though when I was a newspaper boy, I--one of the sergeants in the Fruit of Islam, I was--I threw papers to him and I remember sometimes we'd sit around he'd talk to me about the Nation of Islam and what it was about which I could appreciate, you know, the respect for family. He had two twin daughters, I won't forget that they were little girls and the respect he showed for his wife and then of course we knew about Malcolm, we knew about Muhammad Ali so that was very infectious at that point in time, but I just couldn't get--the hate part never did sit very well with and, and so that was it. Then I came--then I saw the sp--and I knew but I had all--I had heard of [HistoryMaker] McCoy Tyner and I had heard of a few people like a basketball player--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar obviously who was Ahmadiyya, but we just knew him as a Muslim. Walt Hazzard who had also converted to Islam I think right behind that Ahmad Rashad who I'm not sure if he's a practicing Muslim but he did choose a name and several others. So I knew there was something else that was out there and when I met this brother Abdul Rehman Bukhari I said okay, this is it. I, I remember the following spring I went down to Sea World and took my wife [Sumayah Ramadan] and daughter down there and I saw a basketball player from the Houston Rockets and he was dressed up like an Arab and I thought dang that seems to be an uncomfortable dress out here in Sea World but his wife was dressed with the veil and everything. And so even then as a Muslim, I didn't even, I didn't even introduce myself--no, I think we did. I gave him the greeting I said, "Assalam Alaikum," he said, "Wa Alaikum Assalam," but I was thinking--and one thing told me I'm not as good a Muslim as he is, but the other thing told me, I don't that's Islam, I think that's something else, and so my, my own deductive reasoning was telling me all the time. So I stayed aloof you know for five or seven years, didn't practice, but said I was a Muslim and then in about 19--I'm jumping ahead again, 1982 there was a--some people here who had been in the Nation of Islam who had somewhat successfully made a semi-transition to Islam proper, and they came to see me because I was the quote, unquote the only quote a Sunni Muslim that they had known maybe who lived here and I started interacting with them that's how I heard the teachings of Imam Warith Deen Mohammed and that's when I became comfortable with Islam. I understood that I can dress like this. I understood that I have my own diet, I have my own culture. I began to understand things like the U.S. Constitution gave me rights that Muslims did not have and that America really was more maybe the most Islamic country in the world. Now I really began to understand the freedom that we have here. I didn't become an American until after I became a Muslim and heard the teaching of Imam Mohammed, that's when I became an American.$$Now, yeah he did link the two and can you tell us how they--well, just give us your analysis how they link?$$Well, I, I remember hearing him make the observation. He said America he said, he'd always--he talked about that there's excellence in everything. There's excellence in everything, you just have to be able to see it. He says and the excellence that you see in America that you can vividly see is the, the freedom for everybody to reach their human potential. America will not restrict you in reaching your potential. If you, even if you want to be a savage, America will allow you the freedom of being the biggest savage that you wanna be, but if you want to reach the pinnacle of excellence that God has ordained for you, America also gives you that. So he says, and we can see now that Islam is the fuel and America is the car that you put the fuel in to make it drive. And America has--that's the excellence that's in America that you won't find anywhere in the, in the Muslim world, you will not find it anywhere in America. So he, he was able to make the connection but also through making the connection I think he revealed to many of us if we come through the door of Islam and not Arab culture, we will come through the door of America, and so many of us that's what we've done. We, we couldn't come into America unless we came in for us. I mean I'm not saying others can't, but we could not enter into America unless we'd come through the door of Islam. And so he--that opened up the, probably was after that I really began to see you know Islam in the scope of a social active movement. I was saying to some friends of mine who are in a religious labor organization in Chicago [Illinois], I was speaking there and Kim Bobo asked me, she said, "Ramadan [HistoryMaker Mujahid Ramadan] what about being a Muslim?" I said, "Islam really is the natural progression of the Civil Rights Movement, Islam and America is the natural progression of the Civil Rights Movement, i.e. we go from civil rights to human rights." So we become advocates now for the, for the big picture, not just for the rights of African American people or the right of women, the rights of all the poor, the rights of all children, the rights of the disenfranchised, the rights of the prison inmate, and then also then you begin to see the connection between Islam, Christianity and Judaism so it, it that, that has been just monumental. It just so happens that I have the luxury of being in the city that I, the town that I grew up in so it adds, it adds another dimension to my life that say for instance this dimension kind of sets me aside from the people I grew up with and that becomes--because I've been Mujahid Ramadan now for--matter-of-fact if you go ahead my mention my name most people won't remember what my name was and if somebody remember it they'll say, all right so they've known me for over thirty years, but I'm the guy who grew up here then converted to Islam and changed his name.

The Honorable William Jefferson

Congressman William J. Jefferson was born in Lake Providence, Louisiana, on March 14, 1947. Jefferson graduated from Southern University A&M and went on to graduate from Harvard University's School of Law. In 1996, Jefferson received his LL.M. degree in taxation from Georgetown University.

After graduating from Harvard, Jefferson established the law firm of Jefferson, Bryan and Gray, which went on to become the largest predominantly African American law firm in the South. Entering public service, Jefferson spent some time as an officer in the Judge Advocate General's Corps, and then as a law clerk for Alvin B. Rubin of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana. Jefferson later served as a legislative assistant to Senator J. Bennett Johnson. In 1980, Jefferson was elected to the Louisiana State Senate, where he was twice named Legislator of the Year by the Alliance for Good Government. Jefferson's move to Washington, D.C., came in 1991 with his election to the U.S. House of Representatives, where he continued to serve. In the House, Jefferson served on the powerful Committee on Ways and Means, and served as co-chairman of the Africa Trade and Investment Congressional Caucus. Jefferson was also chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus.

Jefferson was active in spreading technology and education to individuals in his own district, and across the country, as he sought to remove the technological barriers that divide many people. For his efforts in bolstering technology initiatives, the Information Technology Industry Council named Jefferson Legislator of the Year. Jefferson also worked hard in Congress to bolster both domestic and international trade, leading both the Africa Growth and Opportunity Act and the New Markets Initiative to passage. For his efforts with the economy, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce presented Jefferson with its annual Spirit of Enterprise award. Jefferson and his wife, Dr. Andrea Green Jefferson, raised five daughters.

Accession Number

A2003.127

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/10/2003

6/11/2003

Last Name

Jefferson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

East Carroll Parish Training School for the Colored

G.W. Griffin High School

Southern University and Agricultural and Mechanical College

Harvard Law School

First Name

William

Birth City, State, Country

Lake Providence

HM ID

JEF01

Favorite Season

Fall, Summer

State

Louisiana

Favorite Vacation Destination

Disney World, Africa

Favorite Quote

A Man Born Of A Woman Is But A Few Days And Those Days Are Filled With Trouble; Don't Worry, Don't Hurt, Don't Forget To Smell The Flowers.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Louisiana

Interview Description
Birth Date

3/14/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New Orleans

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Fish

Short Description

U.S. congressman The Honorable William Jefferson (1947 - ) established the law firm of Jefferson, Bryan and Gray, which went on to become the largest predominantly African American law firm in the South. In the course of his career in politics, Jefferson served in the Louisiana State Senate; the U.S. House of Representatives; and served on the Committee on Ways and Means and as co-chairman of the Africa Trade and Investment Congressional Caucus.

Employment

New Orleans, Louisiana

United States Senate

Jefferson, Bryan and Gray

Louisiana State Senate

United States House of Representatives

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of William Jefferson interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - William Jefferson lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - William Jefferson recalls his family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - William Jefferson describes his father

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - William Jefferson remembers his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - William Jefferson shares childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - William Jefferson discusses his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - William Jefferson recounts his early education

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - William Jefferson reflects on how his mother's civil rights work affected his development

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - William Jefferson details racial violence in Louisiana and the dangers of civil rights work

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - William Jefferson recalls his college years at Southern University

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - William Jefferson lists his travel experiences as a youth

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - William Jefferson discusses his marriage and his law school experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - William Jefferson recounts his work for Judge Alvin Rubin and Senator J. Bennett Johnston

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - William Jefferson remembers his army service

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - William Jefferson describes running for the Louisiana state senate

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Slating of William Jefferson interview

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - William Jefferson recalls his work as a Louisiana state senator

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - William Jefferson details his decision to run for Congress and his 1990 election campaign

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - William Jefferson analyzes why Democrats lost their House majority in 1994

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - William Jefferson recounts some highlights of his Congressional tenure

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - William Jefferson details his work with the Congressional Black Caucus and African trade groups

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - William Jefferson discusses how Democrats could take back control from Republicans

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - William Jefferson evaluates African American presidential candidates

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - William Jefferson expresses his thoughts on reparations and affirmative action

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - William Jefferson discusses African Americans in the criminal justice system

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - William Jefferson considers his legacy

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$2

DAStory

9$1

DATitle
William Jefferson reflects on how his mother's civil rights work affected his development
William Jefferson details racial violence in Louisiana and the dangers of civil rights work
Transcript
Now when you were coming along, did the Civil Rights-you know, did the Civil Rights Movement started up I guess in '57. You would've been in grade school?$$I'd've been ten years old.$$Yeah. You know, did it--did any parts of the Civil Rights Movement hit Northeast Louisiana when you were coming up?$$Not much. By the time--My mother [Angeline Harris Jefferson] was very involved in voter registration. She and a fellow named Reverend [Francis Joseph] Atlas and Reverend John H. Scott. He was our leader. He was an NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] head. They were the first five black people to get on the vote-on the voting roles in Lake Providence [Louisiana]. My mother took the test, the so called literacy test, I don't know three or four times. And later on taught it at our house in our little front room there. The literacy test was, of course, as an obstacle, an impediment to voting. It wasn't meant to test anybody's literacy, 'cause nobody passed the thing unless the guy wanted you to pass it. And so all the school teachers failed, everybody failed who was bold enough to go and take it. Most folks weren't bold enough to take it anyway. My mother took it over and over I guess six, seven times. And then they put so much pressure on the literacy test business till finally in 1962, she and these other three, four folks were put on the rolls. And she was told she had passed it. Now the literacy test has certain features I remember, because I remember my mother teaching it in the-in the-in our house. And the old folks who were illiterate had a hard time with it, as were the old white folks who were illiterate would have had too--they didn't have to take it, of course. But they couldn't--They had to recite the preamble of the [United States] Constitution. They had to recite the [U.S.] presidents in order. They had to be able to compute their--compute their ages with the year, the month and the day, all of which they did. They labored with great difficulty in trying to figure these things out. And so I got involved with my mother, with these people in our house and this little instruction. You got to remember up there, parents were deathly afraid of us--children getting involved in anything. They'd beg us, "Please don't do this. Please don't go here. Please don't go to the wrong window. Please don't go to the wrong place in the movie house. Please, please, please." Because they knew the consequence. Whether you got run out of town, or you got killed or something. You know, something happen to you that was awful. There was no recourse and there was no appeal. You were just done for. And so you had these horrible stories about young men who were--from Emmett Till to all the rest who were killed or run away. And so there was this great fear on the part of the parents. Well my mother would do all these things. But she wanted us to just really stay real close to her. So I remember going with her to the school board, to the P.T.A. [Parent Teacher Association] where she would raise-just raise hell about school books and conditions and teachers and pay for the school teachers as a part of her responsibility as NAACP head. But the other part was on the Civil Rights voter registration. My mother was always there, which is why I think I got this interest in public service.$And we were talking about Reverend [John H.] Scott. Can you tell us something about him, the Civil Rights leader?$$Reverend Scott was a tremendously courageous man. He was a wisp of a man. I guess about (chuckling) 5'3", 120 pounds, a little bitty guy. But he had the heart of a lion. And he was courageous to a fault. And he led our Civil Rights efforts in Lake Providence [Louisiana]. And we all lined up behind whatever he did. And the biggest efforts there was for voting rights. And in North Louisiana, you had three or four people who were just outstanding leaders. In our parish Reverend Scott. And right down the road in Tallulah was Zelma Wyche. And over in--down in Bogalusa was A. Z. Young. And then you had so many people in every parish that was somebody who was involved with, with doing something along the lines we're talk--folks you never heard of. But who were just absolutely committed, involved in taking risk. 'Cause they lived in these places. It wasn't like coming in and leaving town and making a speech and going away. I mean every day they had to go to bed there, and had to go through the routines of what happens if somebody comes to your house at night. And how do you protect your children and all that sort of business. So it was a tough-a tough deal. In fact, by the time when I was fifteen my father [Mose Jefferson] was already telling us how, you know, if somebody encountered you here or there, how you oughta handle yourself and how you oughta beg folks to--for your life and for this and that. You have to kind of find a way to fight back on things in order to--And this is what you had to talk to the children about. Because when you got old enough to walk away from your house and leave your parents, there was no telling what would happen to you.$$Now did you--Do you remember stories of lynchings or harassment of people down there?$$When I came along, I don't remember anybody being lynched. A lot of people beaten. A lot of guys run out of town for looking somebody in the eye, for saying they looked at some white woman, who was in the store, was not talking to her right. That kind of craziness. My mother's-My mother [Angeline Harris Jefferson] told me about a lot of cases of people being lynched or shot dead for these sorts of so called infractions. But the most serious one that I remember was a black physician who was in town. His name was Dr. Green--before I was born who'd come there. And he had, you know, a new car and he had an office. And he looked like a professional man. And he was for that reason told to leave town. And they didn't want him there, giving black folks the wrong idea about--ideas about what they might be able to do. And he didn't leave. And finally, they burn some office or whatever. He decided to--Well he needed to get out of there. And he got his things and went to the depot and was shot at the train station. Shot dead in daylight. They told us that a thousand times. But you could image if you were somebody's mother or father and you were worried-you were concerned about your child, whatever. You would do everything you could to keep them from getting involved or taking a chance here or there. Because they would take a chance, but they didn't want you to take a chance. But, of course, we did anyway. We pushed the issues. 'Cause young people do that. But we were--there were--Reverend Scott and the rest didn't-They did things themselves. They were very careful to keep us from doing it. Unlike in Birmingham where when things got going, a lot of kids were asked to get involved. That--In our part of the country, it was quite different.