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Maj. Gen. Alfred Flowers

Major General Alfred K. Flowers was born on December 29, 1947 in Kinston, North Carolina to Annie Miller, a chef and Monroe Flowers, an industrial worker. He was raised by his grandparents who instilled in him a foundation of morals, ethical values and integrity. Flowers graduated from Jones High School in 1965 and enlisted in the United States Air Force at the age of seventeen.

After completing basic military training at Lackland Air Force Base (AFB) in San Antonio, Texas, Flowers was assigned as a supply warehouseman at Grand Forks AFB in North Dakota. In 1967, he served as an air transportation specialist in Da Nang AB, Vietnam. Two years later, Flowers was reassigned to Norton AFB in California, where he met his wife, Ida, who was also serving in the Air Force. After they married, she was transferred to Clark AFB in the Philippines and Flowers secured a joint-spousal assignment to be with her. In 1971, he was appointed to accounting specialist and served seven years in this position. Flowers received his A.A. degree from Thomas Edison University and his B.S. degree from Southern Illinois University. He earned his M.A. degree in 1976 from Ball State University. In 1978, he attended officer training school at the Medina Annex, Lackland AFB and was then commissioned as a Second Lieutenant. He served as a budget officer at several Air Force bases before receiving his M.S. degree from Industrial College of the Armed Forces in 1994. Flowers served as Chief of Budget at Headquarters ACC on Langley AFB and in1999, he served as director of Budget Programs for the Department of the Air Force. Flowers served as commander of the Air Force Officer Accession and Training Schools at Air University on Maxwell AFB and commander of the Second Air Force on Keesler AFB. In 2009, he was appointed as the deputy assistant secretary of budget in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Financial Management and Comptroller in Washington, D.C. In 2012, after forty-six years of service, Flowers retired from the United States Air Force, making him the longest-serving airman in Air Force history and the longest serving African American in the history of the United States Department of Defense.

Throughout Flowers’ long career with the United States Air Force, he received much recognition including the Distinguished Service Medal, the Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster and the Defense Meritorious Service Medal. Flowers served on the board of directors for the Army Air Force Exchange Service, the Air Force Aid Society and the Air Force Services Agency. Major General (R) Flowers was inducted into the Air Education And Training Command Order of The Sword on April 6, 2012, making him the 244th Air Force inductee since 1967. Flowers is married to Ida M. Flowers and they have one son, Lieutenant Colonel Alfred K. Flowers, Jr.

Alfred K. Flowers was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 28, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.148

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/28/2012

Last Name

Flowers

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

K.

Occupation
Schools

Phillips Crossroad Elementary School

Jones High School

Thomas Edison University

Southern Illinois University

Ball State University

National Defense College

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Alfred

Birth City, State, Country

Kinston

HM ID

FLO02

Favorite Season

Fall

State

North Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Chateau Elan North of Atlanta, Georgia

Favorite Quote

It is all about attitude.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Texas

Birth Date

12/29/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

San Antonio

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken

Short Description

Major general Maj. Gen. Alfred Flowers (1947 - ) served forty-six years in the United States Air Force and was the longest-serving airman in Air Force history when he retired in 2012.

Employment

United States Air Force

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Alfred Flowers' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Alfred Flowers lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Alfred Flowers describes his mother's family background, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Alfred Flowers describes his mother's family background, pt.2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Alfred Flowers talks about his mother and maternal grandparents, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Alfred Flowers talks about his mother and maternal grandparents, pt.2

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Alfred Flowers describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Alfred Flowers discusses his parents and half siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Alfred Flowers discusses his likeness to his grandparents and visiting his mother's home in North Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Alfred Flowers describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Alfred Flowers describes his earliest childhood memory and recalls the treatment of sharecroppers in North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Alfred Flowers describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood, pt.1

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Alfred Flowers describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood, pt.2

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Alfred Flowers discusses the death of his maternal grandfather and his decision to join the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Alfred Flowers describes his experience as a sharecropper on the Phillips' farm in North Carolina, pt.1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Alfred Flowers describes his experience as a sharecropper on the Phillips' farm in North Carolina pt.2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Alfred Flowers describes living on the Phillips' land in North Carolina with his grandparents, pt.1

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Alfred Flowers describes living on the Phillips' land in North Carolina with his grandparents pt.2

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Alfred Flowers remarks on his experience in elementary school and attending racially segregated schools

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Alfred Flowers discusses one of his favorite teachers and his early interest in arithmetic and mathematics

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Alfred Flowers describes his high school experiences and teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Alfred Flowers discusses his extracurricular high school activities and job as a school bus driver

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Alfred Flowers discusses his graduation from high school and interest in joining the military

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Alfred Flowers talks about attending church as a child

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Alfred Flowers discusses his childhood and growing up poor

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Alfred Flowers talks about his decision to join the military

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Alfred Flowers describes his basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Alfred Flowers describes working as a supply warehouseman in Grand Forks, North Dakota

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Alfred Flowers talks about his duties in air transportation during the Vietnam War

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Alfred Flowers discusses the "Tet Offensive" and other aspects of the Vietnam War

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Alfred Flowers talks about his return to the U.S. and continuing his service with the Air Force

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Alfred Flowers describes how he met his wife, Ida Hill Flowers

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Alfred Flowers discusses being married, while serving in the Air Force

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Alfred Flowers describes his college education and earning his bachelor's degree from Southern Illinois University

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Alfred Flowers talks about his son and teaching him the value of a good education

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Alfred Flowers describes his experience living and studying in Crete, Greece

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Alfred Flowers talks about his admission into the U.S. Air Force's Officer Training School after being rejected three times

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Alfred Flowers speaks about the differences between enlisted military and a military officer, and earning his second master's degree

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Alfred Flowers discusses his marriage and military life

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Alfred Flowers describes his experience as First Lieutenant at Tactical Air Command Headquarters in Langley, Virginia

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Alfred Flowers discusses his work at the Pentagon in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Alfred Flowers recounts his career as a Major in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Alfred Flowers describes his return to Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama to work for the U.S. Air Force Accession Command

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Alfred Flowers talks about serving as the Air Force Budget Director

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Alfred Flowers comments on his career accomplishments and his retirement

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Alfred Flowers reflects upon his legacy and comments on incidents of misuse of the U.S. Air Force budget

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Alfred Flowers shares stories about financial misconduct and budgetary spending

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Alfred Flowers explains his command philosophy and describes how 9/11 impacted communication between the various branches of the government

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Alfred Flowers discusses his views on race relations in 21st century America

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Alfred Flowers talks about some famous African American military servicemen

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Alfred Flowers talks about his family and former classmates

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Alfred Flowers talks about his son

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Alfred Flowers describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Alfred Flowers comments on having respect for the elderly and talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Alfred Flowers describes his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$5

DAStory

7$4

DATitle
Alfred Flowers describes living on the Phillips' land in North Carolina with his grandparents, pt.1
Alfred Flowers describes his return to Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama to work for the U.S. Air Force Accession Command
Transcript
So, now, did you have--when you were a kid, did you have any carefree time to roam the woods or to do, you know--$$Not very much. You know, I started working like an adult at 10 years old on the farm and going to school. One of the things that my grandparents impressed upon me was that, "You were going to finish high school. We couldn't afford to send you to college, but you were going to finish high school." And I recall, you know, we, my grandparents, when they would get a few dollars, we--I told you, we raised chickens and hogs, and the hogs we used were primarily for the meat. We would kill hogs every year usually in December or January when it got cold. You kill the hogs, and then we had an old smokehouse and, you know, we fry out the fat and made our own grease. It was called lard, and that's what we cooked with and, you know, that's why we all have hypertension. We cook with the lard, and then we would take the meat, and my granddad will cut it up and hang it in the smokehouse, and they would smoke it. So we'd make our own bacon, our own ham, our own sausage, everything. Smoke that stuff, and that's what we would eat on during the year. The chickens that we raised, they would lay eggs, the chickens would. And my grandmother would sell the eggs for fish. That old fish man would come buy twice a week, and she'd sell a dozen of eggs for a dollar and 25 cents, and buy five pounds of fish. It was really bartering; it was trading one good for another. And that's how we got the fish most of the time, except during the summer when my grandfather was selling corn, tobacco, and he'd have a few dollars. Then sometimes he would stop by the fish market on the way back home after a sale and buy five pounds of fish for a dollar and a half or whatever the type of fish cost. But most of the things that we ate we grew ourselves in the garden or our hogs or chickens. Occasionally, we go hunting or somebody would kill rabbits or catch rabbits and we'd have rabbit. You'd go fishing with a net called "shadding" during the spring, and we'd catch shad, and that would be a delicacy because shad, the eggs in the female shad were called roes. They called them roses (sic). Actually, it was caviar and we didn't know it (laughs). So, we had caviar early in life and weren't smart enough to know that we were eating fish eggs. I thought it was great. But that was another means of survival with fish. When we couldn't afford to buy it, we'd try to catch it. But, it's--.$Then I got an opportunity unlike any financial guy could ever expect. I got the opportunity to go to Maxwell in Command, the Accession Command, Air Force Officer Accession and Training Schools, which I had the Officer Training School, which I had been a member of in 1978. It was now moved to Maxwell Air Force Base, though I had the Officer Training School, had all of Air Force R.O.T.C. across the country, 144 colleges and universities where we had R.O.T.C. and 980 or so crosstown schools that fed into those 144 primary schools for R.O.T.C., and 869 high schools where we had Junior R.O.T.C. in the U.S. and 14 overseas, with a total of student population of about 115,000 high school students in Junior R.O.T.C. The opportunity to command that and impact the officer force that we were bringing into the Air Force, about 530 a year out of O.T.S., and about 1100 from R.O.T.C. that we were bringing in officers each year; and then that 115,000 students that we were teaching how to be citizens in a great citizenship program in Junior R.O.T.C. It was just awesome. I don't--I think that's probably one of the jobs that I've had, one of the opportunities to impact the most lives across the country of young adults and young folks in high school, that our objective was to make them better citizens as they grew up to become adults. It was just an awesome responsibility, and one that I will cherish all my life.$$Did that for about a year and a half, and then I got the opportunity to go command the Second Air Force. And I am the first financial person in the history of our finance community to command a numbered Air Force. No one else in the controller community has ever commanded a numbered Air Force. To go command Second Air Force, Second Air Force was all of the training, technical, nontechnical, all that; the R.O.T.C. and all that stuff. If it was training other than Pilot Training, it fell under Second Air Force to include Basic Training where I started. So I had the opportunity to back to Lackland Air Force Base frequently and observe and to tweak as we needed to; Basic Training, all of the Technical Training other than Pilot Training, to include Space and Missile Training for the Air Force. We ran about 40,000 a day on Lackland Air Force Base, and some 2,500 courses a year that we taught Technical Training around the world as the Second Air Force Commander, another awesome responsibility.$$That's when you were in Mississippi, right?$$That's when I was in Mississippi, the Headquarters of the Second Air Force.$$This was in 2008--starts with 2008?$$Yes, sir. From 2008. May of 2008 to September of 2009.

Thelma Groomes

Thelma Lucille Jarmon Vass Groomes was born January 3, 1911, in Kinston, North Carolina. An only child, her father worked as a truck driver and a preacher while her mother was a seamstress and beautician. Groomes grew up in Washington, D.C., graduating from high school in 1928 and going on to attend Howard University, where she earned a B.A. in education in 1932. She would later return to school at the University of the District of Columbia to further her education in the 1960s.

After graduating from Howard, Groomes took a job with the U.S. Department of Commerce, tabulating figures for the next three years. In 1935, she left for the U.S. Department of Labor to work as a statistical clerk, and she would remain there until 1959. That year, she went to work at Hine Junior High School teaching English, reading and social studies. She also taught government and sociology at Roosevelt High School as part of its adult education program. While at Hine, Groomes was an outgoing teacher engaged in her students' progress. She was the sponsor of the United Nations Contest and trip to the United Nations in New York, the sponsor of the Junior Red Cross Society and sponsor of the Charm and Culture Club. She also served as a representative of the school to the city of Washington, D.C., and the National Education Association. Groomes retired in 1972, but spent the next year working as a consultant to Alton Elementary School in the Parent-Partnership Traineeship Program.

Over the years, Groomes has been involved in a wide number of organizations. She has served as the vice president of the Association for the Study of African American Life and History in the Capital chapter, served on the Women's Committee of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and is a charter member and vice president of the D.C. Friends of Liberia. She also currently serves as the president of the Howard University Women's Club, a role that she also filled from 1954 to 1956. She is also a lifelong member of the National Education Association and the NAACP. Groomes has been named the Woman of the Year by Afro-American, has been inducted into the Washington Urban League Hall of Fame, and was named One of Washington's Best Dressed Women by the Omega Wives. Groomes has traveled the world and sponsored three overseas orphans. She has two children, two grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.

Groomes passed away on August 8, 2011 at the age of 100.

Accession Number

A2003.159

Sex

Female

Interview Date

7/17/2003

Last Name

Groomes

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widowed

Schools

University of the District of Columbia

Paul Laurence Dunbar High School

Wilson J.o. Es

First Name

Thelma

Birth City, State, Country

Kinston

HM ID

GRO02

Favorite Season

Spring

State

North Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Canada

Favorite Quote

Give To The World The Best That You Have And The Best Will Come Back To You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

1/3/1911

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken, Spinach

Death Date

8/30/2011

Short Description

Middle school teacher Thelma Groomes (1911 - 2011 ) served as the president of the Howard University Women's Board.

Employment

United States Department of Commerce

United States Department of Labor

Hine Junior High School

Roosevelt High School

Alton Elementary School

Favorite Color

Sky Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Thelma Groomes's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Thelma Groomes lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Thema Groomes describes her maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Thelma groomes describes her mother's personality and occupation

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Thelma Groomes describes her mother's educational background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Thelma Groomes describes her father's personality and family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Thelma Groomes briefly talks about being her parents' marriage and being an only child

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Thelma Groomes describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Thelma Groomes describes her childhood neighborhood in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Thelma Groomes talks about her father's truck driving accident

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Thelma Groomes describes her childhood personality and activities

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Thelma Groomes describes her grandfather's encounter with a bear and researching her family history with HistoryMaker Gen. Julius Becton, Jr.

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Thelma Groomes remembers her uncle, Elias Becton, a U.S. military veteran of World War I

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Thelma Groomes talks about her various nicknames

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Thelma Groomes describes her favorite elementary and high school subjects and teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Thelma Groomes describes her experience at Dunbar High School in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Thelma Groomes describes her experience as an undergraduate student at Howard University in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Thelma Groomes remembers Howard University faculty like William Leo Hansberry and E. Franklin Frazier

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Thelma Groomes talks about her involvement in the Howard University Women's Club

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Thelma Groomes talks about Mary Church Terrell and Judge Mary Ann Gooden Terrell's non-profit organization for girls, High Tea Society, Inc.

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Thelma Groomes describes her involvement with Howard University's Friends of the Chapel

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Thelma Groomes lists notable faculty and alumni of Howard University in Washington D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Thelma Groomes describes working in the U.S. government as an undergraduate student and teaching junior high school in 1959

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Thelma Groomes describes her experience in the U.S. Department of Labor and her husband's work as a union organizer

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Thelma Groomes describes challenges her husband faced as a union organizer

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Thelma Groomes describes her experience teaching at Hines Junior High School in Washington D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Thelma Groomes describes her tenure as president of the non-profit organization, Friends of Liberia

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Thelma Groomes talks about Dr. Carter Godwin Woodson's legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Thelma Groomes talks about her tenure as president of the Association for the Study of African American Life and History (ASALH)

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Thelma Groomes talks about Paul Laurence Dunbar High School's African American history curriculum

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Thelma Groomes talks about her affiliation with various civic organizations

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Thelma Groomes remembers the assassination of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in 1968 and the March on Washington in 1963

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Thelma Groomes remembers meeting Fannie Lou Hamer in 1964

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Thelma Groomes remembers the Poor People's Campaign in 1968 and being awarded Woman of the Year

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Thelma Groomes talks about her parents' involvement with the Universal Negro Improvement Association

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Thelma Groomes talks about her retirement from the District of Columbia public school system in 1972

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Thelma Groomes describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Thelma Groomes considers her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Thelma Groomes talks about the significance of oral history

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Thelma Groomes talks about her parent's perception of her work

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Thelma Groomes narrates her photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Thelma Groomes narrates her photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$3

DAStory

1$7

DATitle
Thelma Groomes talks about Mary Church Terrell and Judge Mary Ann Gooden Terrell's non-profit organization for girls, High Tea Society, Inc.
Thelma Groomes describes her experience teaching at Hines Junior High School in Washington D.C.
Transcript
Mary Church Terrell, can you--$$Oh, yeah.$$What was she like, what was she like?$$Well, she was a no-nonsense person and very outgoing. And I, I learned a good bit about her when in late years when she started this protesting, you know, the discrimination here in Washington [D.C.] because they would meet every Saturday. My husband, Ogden Groomes, was a union man and, of course, he was at all of these things. He was right there. And they would march from maybe restaurants or wherever, and go in to be served and all that sort of thing. And they would meet at the church down there, I think, at Grant Circle a lot of times. But anyway, she was as, as hearty and as agile as most of them. She was with them. And she was sincere, a very sincere person. And I don't know, at her age, you just couldn't, you couldn't believe this, that she had the energy that she has, oh, yes. She was, she was a marvel. And when we gave her that citation, Howard Women's Club [Howard University Women's Club], and I presented it to her--I have a picture of it that I'm going to give them. And I, I was endeared to her. Mary Terrell, you know, and recently, I haven't asked her, but I've had, had occasion to talk with Judge Mary [Ann Gooden] Terrell. They call her Terrell (pronounced with stress on second syllable), and most people call Mary Church Terrell, Terrell (pronounced with stress on first syllable). And I don't know whether down the line, they are related or not. But she is a judge here at the, in the court system, and she has started a, an organization to work with--she calls it the High Tea Society [High Tea Society Inc.]. And they work with inner city girls, showing them that there's no alternative to the kind of thing that they're confronted with in communities. So I joined that in past year 2002, I think, and they have taken over the area and the home that the Baker's Dozen years ago. Those were a group of social workers here in Washington [D.C.] who had this home over on 4th Street, and they are occupying that to work with these girls as one of the, the activity houses.$$The Baker's Dozen?$$Huh? Baker's Dozen, yes. Most of those girls were social workers and they banded together and they worked for many, many years with inner city young women.$Tell me about school when you, were, were you excited to be able to start a career as a school teacher?$$Was I excited?$$Yeah.$$Oh, yeah, oh (laughter). Oh, when I, when I resigned from [the U.S. Department of] Labor and went--well, that summer, I got my mother [Cora Becton Jarmon] in my car and I drove around this horrible Hine [Hines Junior High School in Washington D.C.]. And when we (laughter), when we got around there to the front door, we saw all these young fellows. I guess about five or six of them in the vestibule of the school over there at 7th and Southeast [Washington, D.C.], shooting crap (laughter). And momma said, "Whoo, are you crazy, where are you going to teach?" I said, "Oh, yeah, they're, they're not school students, they're not students." I said, "They're just in front of the building doing what they're accustomed to doing." But I was really excited when I went in. I wasn't as confident and sure of myself at the beginning because I inherited a person that teaches program who had just left, whose position I had, you know, been put into. And he was a teacher of, of a business, and I wasn't a teacher of business, so I had to keep ahead of that. Well, that didn't happen, but maybe a year or so, one year, and I fulfilled that as best as I could, and I wasn't a bad teacher. And I, I was, being an older person, not just a young person put into that teaching position, I didn't have problems as some of the teachers had with discipline because, see, I was an older person. I'd been in government, and here I'd come as an older person into the classroom, and they respected that. And in many instances when they would bring students from Caesar Knowles [ph.] who problems students and put in my room, I didn't have any problem with them. And it ended up that I got a lot of them that I didn't, I shouldn't have had. I had too many of them, but it worked out well, for me and for them because I, I, I had the maturity to deal with them and let them know that life was much more than they were seeing right there at that time. And they could, they could make an impression and, and be fulfilled in whatever they chose to work at and, and actually be committed and, and dedicated to their, you know, their studies and that sort of thing.$$Okay. Now, now when did you, were you able to teach social studies and--$$Oh, yes, then I got my, my own program, English and social studies. Then later on, I enjoyed it because, and it was exciting, because I not only worked with them in the classroom, but I sponsored the Red Cross [The American Red Cross] group, the Charmette [ph.] Club. I had extra, I just took on extra stuff and worked with the students and they appreciated that and I see a lot of them now. They see me and know who I am, but they have to tell me, "Oh, I was in your class" and such and such thing. And even when I went down to jury duty, there were one or two down there--said, "Didn't you teach at Hine?" I said, "Yeah." She said, "I was in your class," and she had her little youngster along with her. And that, that's a rewarding kind of thing when you meet these students and they remember, you know, you and your relationship with them in the classroom. That's a rewarding thing about it all.