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Barbara Wright-Pryor

Classical soloist, educator, and music critic Barbara Wright-Pryor was born Barbara Wright in Stamps, Arkansas, to Bernyce Eleanor Hayes Wright and Joseph Dudley Wright. Growing up in Chicago’s Ida B. Wells Projects, she idolized Marian Anderson. Wright-Pryor attended Willard School and graduated from Wendell Phillips Elementary and High Schools in 1951. A mezzo-contralto, Wright-Pryor studied voice as she pursued an undergraduate degree from Roosevelt University, Chicago State University, and the Chicago Conservatory of Music, where she majored in vocal performance. She received her M.A. degree, magna cum laude, from Roosevelt University.

As a mezzo-contralto recitalist and soloist of oratorio, her first performance was with the Dorian Choral Ensemble. In 1961, she performed with Irving Bunton’s Chicago Concert Chorale. Duke Ellington featured the group in his 1963 My People musical revue, celebrating the accomplishments of Blacks in the one hundred years since Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation. In 1968, Wright-Pryor was choral director for Ellington’s Sacred Concert. Over the years, Wright-Pryor has performed with the members of Chicago’s Lyric Opera, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Civic Orchestra of Chicago, South Shore Philharmonic, Southside Family Chamber Orchestra and String Quartet, and the Chicago Park District Orchestra. Her concert stage performances have featured Sir Michael Tippett’s A Child of Our Time; Rossini’s Stabat Mater; J. S. Bach’s Cantata No. 54 for Contralto and Orchestra, Christmas Oratorio, and Mass in B Minor; Handel’s Messiah and the works of Mozart, Mendelssohn, and Verdi. Wright-Pryor has performed Saul of Tarsus by Betty Jackson King, and in addition to Betty Jackson King, composers Rollo Dilworth, Barry K. Elmore, Robert L. Morris and Howard Savage have dedicated compositions to her. For the 1998 Sixteenth International Duke Ellington Conference, Wright-Pryor served as producer/director and vocalist to restage Ellington’s lost 1963 My People musical revue. Her musical accomplishments were achieved while serving for thirty-five years as counselor-educator with the Chicago Public Schools and adjunct professor at DePaul University.

A charter member of the Community Advisory Council of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (CSO), Wright-Pryor helps monitor the CSO’s progress in achieving its diversity agenda. She also serves on the Artistic Planning Committee of the Chicago Symphony. Wright-Pryor is a member of the Board of Trustees for the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, and for over a decade, she has been president of the Chicago Music Association, which was founded as the first branch of the National Association of Negro Musicians, Inc. in 1919. Wright-Pryor was honored by the Society for the Advancement of the Vivian G. Harsh Collection of Afro-American History and Literature of the Chicago Public Library in 1999, and they have requested her papers. She was inducted into Wendell Phillips Elementary and High Schools’ Hall of Fame and received an honorary Doctor of Music degree in 1999. An expert and critic of African American contributions to classical music, Wright-Pryor serves as the classical music critic for the Chicago Crusader.

A soloist at Northfield Community and St. Mark United Methodist Churches, Wright-Pryor is married to organist George Williams.

Accession Number

A2006.106

Sex

Female

Interview Date

9/24/2006

Last Name

Wright-Pryor

Maker Category
Schools

Wendell Phillips Academy High School

Wendell Phillips Elementary School

Roosevelt University

Chicago State University

Chicago Conservatory of Music

Willard Elementary School

First Name

Barbara

Birth City, State, Country

Stamps

HM ID

WRI02

Favorite Season

Fall, Spring

State

Arkansas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Southern California

Favorite Quote

You Can Do Anything That You Want To Do. It Takes Work.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

5/30/1934

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

School counselor and classical singer Barbara Wright-Pryor (1934 - ) was a classical mezzo-contralto soloist. In addition to her singing career, Wright-Pryor taught in the Chicago Public Schools, was a member of the Board of Trustees for the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, served as president of the Chicago Music Association, and was a music critic for the Chicago Crusader.

Employment

Chicago Public Schools

Chicago Crusader

DePaul University

Favorite Color

Green, Pink

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Barbara Wright-Pryor's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Barbara Wright-Pryor lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her mother's education in Hope, Arkansas

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her mother's education at Arkadelphia Presbyterian Academy

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describers her maternal uncles

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her family's connection with Maya Angelou

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes Maya Angelou's family in Stamps, Arkansas, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes Maya Angelou's family in Stamps, Arkansas, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes how her parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her family's musical heritage

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her family's move to Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Barbara Wright-Pryor reflects upon the negative portrayal of Stamps, Arkansas

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Barbara Wright-Pryor recalls her homes in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her parents' separation

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her parents' professions in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers the community in the Ida B. Wells Homes, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers the community in the Ida B. Wells Homes, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers Chicago's Wendell Phillips Elementary School

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers Chicago's Wendell Phillips High School

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her high school extracurricular activities

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Barbara Wright-Pryor reflects upon her high school experience in Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers hearing William Warfield sing

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her marriage and college education

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers Marian Anderson and Leontyne Price

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes how voices change with age

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Barbara Wright-Pryor recalls her performances in the Chicago church circuit

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers working with Duke Ellington, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers working with Duke Ellington, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Barbara Wright-Pryor recalls recreating Duke Ellington's 'My People', pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Barbara Wright-Pryor recalls recreating Duke Ellington's 'My People', pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Barbara Wright-Pryor shares the history of the Chicago Music Association, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Barbara Wright-Pryor shares the history of the Chicago Music Association, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Barbara Wright-Pryor recalls her work with Theodore Charles Stone

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes Theodore Charles Stone's career

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes the history of African American composers

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes how African American composers were ignored

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Barbara Wright-Pryor explains the differences between jazz and classical music

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Barbara Wright-Pryor lists her favorite composers and genres of music

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Barbara Wright-Pryor reflects upon her life

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Barbara Wright-Pryor reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Barbara Wright-Pryor talks about her children

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Barbara Wright-Pryor recalls a former student at George T. Donoghue Elementary School

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Barbara Wright-Pryor describes how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

6$3

DATitle
Barbara Wright-Pryor remembers working with Duke Ellington, pt. 1
Barbara Wright-Pryor shares the history of the Chicago Music Association, pt. 1
Transcript
In 1961, Irving Bunton, who is now, he's a retired supervisor of music with the Chicago Public Schools, but he formulated, called together singers and colleagues of his to form a musical unit called Chicago Concert Choral and we did sacred works, Poulenc [Francis Poulenc] 'Mass,' ['Mass in G Major'] we did various, Mozart [Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart] 'Requiem,' we did various oratorios and classical works similar to what the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Chorus does, but this was an opportunity for blacks who were classically trained or interested in seeing classical music, for a great number of them to come together in music. At that time, in 1962, Duke Ellington was in the process of, he had been commissioned to write a show to commemorate the centennial of the Emancipation Proclamation and our organization, our Chicago Concert Choral was one of the choral groups that went to audition to be the chorus in this particular work and Duke selected us as the choral group to appear in his musical revue entitled 'My People.' And, as I said, it commemorated the hundredth anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation and it showed the progress that Negroes had made. That was the terminology of the day in that one hundred years in the arts, in literature, in science, in, in all arenas, but especially in music. And, as a result of that, being in that, in the chorus and being part of the cast because the chorus was used to depict various scenes and the like, in 1968, when Duke came to do his sacred concerts that he had begun at that time, he said that, you know, the first, that first portion of his life he had done jazz and, in fact, he didn't call it jazz. Music is a beyond category. Those are his words. Music is, there are only two kinds of music, good music and bad music, and so, and that was his terminology as well. But he said he was going to spend the rest of his life because he had been so blessed in doing sacred music, so then he did these sacred concerts one [A Concert of Sacred Music], two [Second Sacred Concert], and three [Third Sacred Concert]. Well, he was contracted to come to Chicago [Illinois] to do a sacred concert at the Auditorium Theatre [Chicago, Illinois] and I was sought as the choral director to train the chorus for this performance. It was November 8, I think, 1968. I was only five years old. I was just a prodigy (laughter) and that was the, the 1963 experience with 'My People' and the 1968 experience of being his choral director were the highlights of my life, to work with this genius who had composed more than three thousand pieces in his lifetime, and (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) I remember from that period seeing him on television, on Sunday morning, on CBS, with, I think the New York Philharmonic, or something, you know.$$Yes. He was an amazing person. I just adored him. In fact when Mercedes [HistoryMaker Mercedes Ellington], his granddaughter, and I worked together at later years. I told her, you know, "I was in love with your grandfather," (laughter) and we had a big laugh about that. And, in love as far as being, adoring him and seeing him for, as the person he was. He was a magnificent person. He was a humanitarian. He was truly America's cultural ambassador. They designated that he was and he was. I mean, he did state department tours and the like, and just spread, he was just full of love, just full of it and embraced all sorts of humanity, gave dignity to people in all walks of life. He was a magnificent person.$Tell us about the, about the, I'm still trying to get the name right, like I had it wrong earlier, but the Chicago Music Association and its origins in 1919; that's a long time ago (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) It's a long time ago. Yes, for the very reasons that we were talking about, the discrimination against blacks and the performing arts, Nora Douglas Holt, who was the music critic for the Chicago Defender, called together musicians, black musicians here in Chicago [Illinois], and they were all professionally trained and to form an organization in which blacks could perform on stage concerts and classical music and create music themselves, and to promote the use of a Negro spiritual as indigenous form of music to this country. She called musicians up around Chicago and they established this organization called Chicago Music Association. It was to provide performance venues for blacks who were traditionally left out when it came to performing on major concert halls and opera, opera stages. At the same time, or in fact prior to 1919, these series of meetings took place before 1919, but Chicago Music Association was officially formed on March 3 of 1919. At the same time that all of this was going on, Henry Grant [Henry L. Grant] in Washington, D.C. was attempting to form an organization composed of black musicians nationally, Negro musicians, that was the terminology then, Negro musicians nationally, for the same reason. Incidentally, Henry Grant was Duke Ellington's high school music teacher in Washington, D.C. And he actually was the first president of the National Association of Negro Musicians [NANM] after it was formed. Well, they heard about this fledging, fledgling group in Chicago and they contacted Nora Douglas Holt, and said we'd like to come and meet with you, and so musicians came from all around the country and met in Chicago during the last of July and the first of August 1919, during the most horrendous race riot that ever occurred here in Chicago. They met at the Wabash Avenue YMCA [Chicago, Illinois], and from accounts of the recording secretary that we have in our archives, they could hear the noise of the riot that was going on further to the north, the shots and various things that were going on. They met and they hammered out and they saw and were led by Chicago Music Association as to how they came into formation and the purposes and what they did, their constitution and the like, and out of these meetings, the National Association of Negro Musicians was formed and Chicago became the first chapter, even though it preceded, so NANM was formed like August 9th. Earl [HistoryMaker Earl Calloway] can correct me. He remembers those dates. It was either August 8th or August 9th of 1919, and Chicago Music Association was formed March 3, 1919.

Thelma Daley

Thelma Daley was born on June 17th, in Annapolis, Maryland. Attending Bowie State University in Maryland, Daley graduated at the age of nineteen with her B.S. degree. She went on to New York University, earning her M.A. in counseling and personnel administration. More recently, she has received her Ed.D. in counseling from George Washington University.

Daley began her career at the Baltimore County Board of Education, serving as the coordinator for guidance and counseling services. She has also served as a visiting professor at North Central Western Maryland College, the University of Wisconsin and Harvard University. Daley has been active with a wide number of organizations over the years, beginning with her sorority, Delta Sigma Theta. She served as the national treasurer from 1963 to 1967. Daley became national vice president in 1971, and in 1975 she became national president, holding the position for four years. Daley also served as the national president of the American School Counseling Association from 1971 to 1972 and as president of the American Personnel & Guidance Association from 1975 to 1976. She has been active with the United Negro College Fund. Daley is also the national director of WIN, the Women in the NAACP. Currently, Daley and WIN promote knowledge of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and AIDS prevention within the African American community.

By presidential appointment, Daley became the first woman to chair the National Advisory Council on Career Education. She has appeared in Who's Who Among Black Americans and has served on the board of directors of the National Testing Service. Daley and her husband, Guilbert, live in Maryland.

Accession Number

A2003.164

Sex

Female

Interview Date

7/22/2003

Last Name

Daley

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Organizations
Schools

Lothian Elementary

Bates High School

Bowie State University

New York University

George Washington University

First Name

Thelma

Birth City, State, Country

Annapolis

HM ID

DAL01

Favorite Season

Spring, Winter

State

Maryland

Favorite Vacation Destination

Beaches

Favorite Quote

The World Is As Big As You Make It.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Maryland

Birth Date

6/17/1927

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Baltimore

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Seafood

Short Description

Social activist, school counselor, and foundation executive Thelma Daley (1927 - ) was the director of Women in the NAACP (WIN), and became the first woman to chair the National Advisory Council on Career Education.

Employment

Baltimore County Board of Education

North Central Western Maryland College

University of Wisconsin, Madison

Harvard University

National Advisory Council on Career Education

Favorite Color

Hot Pink, Tangerine

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Thelma Daley's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Thelma Daley lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Thelma Daley describes her maternal family history

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Thelma Daley talks about her grandparents and her United Methodist upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Thelma Daley describes her mother, Hattie Virginia Randall Thomas

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Thelma Daley talks about how her parents may have met

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Thelma Daley talks about her five siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Thelma Daley talks about her father's background, and her family's history of land ownership, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Thelma Daley talks about her father's background, and her family's history of land ownership, pt.2

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Thelma Daley talks about her paternal grandfather, John H. Thomas, a funeral director

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Thelma Daley describes her father's personality and his charter bus business

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Thelma Daley talks about how she learned to be an entrepreneur from her mother

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Thelma Daley remembers selling vegetables at her family's market stand

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Thelma Daley recounts family road trips as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Thelma Daley remembers her grade school years

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Thelma Daley talks about her social life in grade school as well as a "catastrophic" moment in Latin class

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Thelma Daley talks about her favorite subject and her decision to attend Bowie State College in Bowie, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Thelma Daley describes her father's charter bus company which also bused elementary school children in Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Thelma Daley describes influential teachers during her grade school years

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Thelma Daley tries to recall some of her extracurricular activities in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Thelma Daley talks about why she attended Bowie State College in Bowie, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Thelma Daley recounts her experience at Bowie State College in Bowie, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Thelma Daley talks about her activities as a student at Bowie State College in Bowie, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Thelma Daley describes how she became a member of the Delta Sigma Theta Sorority

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Thelma Daley describes her family's influence on her civic involvement and personal development

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Thelma Daley compares Bowie State University and New York University, and talks about the distinguished professors at NYU

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Thelma Daley talks about why she waited to pursue a doctorate and her marriage to Guilbert Daley

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Thelma Daley makes a quick comment about her marriage to Guilbert Daley

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Thelma Daley talks about how exercising kindness was important to her

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Thelma Daley talks about her acquaintance with Fannie Lou Hamer, her friendship with HistoryMaker Dorothy Height, and her philosophy as a leader

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Thelma Daley talks about the Wednesdays in Mississippi project led by HistoryMaker Dorothy Height and Polly Cowan

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Thelma Daley talks about the establishment of the Pig Bank in Mississippi by Fannie Lou Hamer

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Thelma Daley remembers Fannie Lou Hamer's funeral

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Thelma Daley talks about her contributions to the American School Counselor Association and the American Counseling Association

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Thelma Daley describes her work to combat racism and sexism in the American School Counselor Association and the American Counseling Association

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Thelma Daley talks about how she worked to effect change from within different organizations

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Thelma Daley talks about the highlight of her professional career

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Thelma Daley talks about her leadership roles in the black community

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Thelma Daley describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Thelma Daley talks about the strength of counseling in the schools

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Thelma Daley talks about the role that school staff can play in systemic issues in the community

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Thelma Daley talks about her involvement in various organizations

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Thelma Daley talks about her love of cooking and her personality

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Thelma Daley reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Thelma Daley talks about what she would do differently

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Thelma Daley describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Thelma Daley narrates her photographs

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DATitle
Thelma Daley talks about her acquaintance with Fannie Lou Hamer, her friendship with HistoryMaker Dorothy Height, and her philosophy as a leader
Thelma Daley talks about her contributions to the American School Counselor Association and the American Counseling Association
Transcript
Now your engagement of social change activities--(simultaneous)--$$Yes.$$--seems to be through most of the traditional black organizations, right? But what I heard you say, I guess, not too long ago, you said you met Fannie Lou Hamer in Mississippi.$$Yeah.$$Was it--in what capacity were you in Mississippi dealing with Fannie Lou Hamer?$$Well, I was with the National Council of Negro Women with [HM] Dorothy Height very early it was down there with her. Right now, I serve as vice chair of the board for the National Council of Negro Women, which I never thought I'd get to that position, you know. But very early, she invited me on one of those tours to Mississippi and working with the women and with their head start program and it was all--$$Had you known Dorothy Height a long time before--$$Well, Dorothy was the president of Deltas [Delta Sigma Theta Sorority] and I met Dorothy Height through the, through the, you know, through Delta. You know everybody who is a president in Delta. And in Delta, I've served in several roles in Delta. I've served as national treasurer. I served as national projects chair. I served as national first vice president and chair of the scholarship and standards committee and then as president of Delta and then on some other committees and things, so. But you know everybody who, who's a president. You know those people. Does that make sense to you? So--(simultaneous)--$$Can you tell us about Ms. Dorothy Height? I mean, she's, she's really a legend now--(simultaneous)--$$Oh, she's wonderful.$$What are some of your reflections on (unclear)?$$On Dr. Height? She--there's no one like her. She has the most acute mind I've ever seen of anybody. She can recall dates and moments and hours and you can be relating something and she'll sit there and she'll say--you'll think maybe she's sleeping or crocheting or something--she say, no, no, no, it's not like that. They went down this street and that street and this street. And it was 5 o'clock in the morning on January the 12th, 1963 and it was in Lebanon. And it was not in some other place. And she--very, very brilliant. I've never heard her talk about anybody. I've never ever heard her say negative things about anybody and her ability to conceptualize and she's moving from one thing to another. You think that this big event, well the next day she had something else going out there--blooming, blossoming, like that; and the whole thing of wisdom and the whole thing of the ability to see the global and the ability to relate to people. And I'm very fortunate. I am very honored that, that, that she considers me to be a friend. We sometimes she--well sometimes I get a call from her every day. Isn't that interesting? Sometimes I get a call from her every day and sometimes two and three calls from her a day. And she'll say, well what about this, what about this, you know. And I'm honored that it's because she feels she can trust me. And I want to come back to trust. I feel that trust and loyalty are very, very key, okay. And that, that if you ask me to do something and I accept, then I feel that you should be able to trust me. And then if I feel that you're not worthy of my trust then I would sever, okay. And so that is my whole philosophy there. So I feel that Dr. Height feels that she can trust me. I think she also likes my creative ability. She likes my creative thinking 'cause a lot of times I do training for the Board. And she'll always say the Board has come in, can you do something to help them in the leadership development and so forth. So, and I don't mind doing it. The other thing is whatever I do for people--I mean the speeches I make, the workshops I've given across the country, I don't charge. If somebody would like to give me a gift, that's fine. Pay my airfare, pay my hotel but I'm not out there so say, give me $1,000, give me $2,000 in terms of that but if you want to give me a gift, that's fine but you don't have to stretch to do it, okay, all right 'cause I feel in some way that I'm supposed to share and help people to grow. And when everybody can grow and grow no matter how old they are and we grow from each other and that's my whole philosophy. That's my philosophy with my students. I teach part-time at Loyola College [now Loyola University Maryland, Baltimore, Maryland] in the graduate school. And I say to them, and I start teaching Thursday. I have to teach classes this week and next week, okay. And I say that we learn from each other. And I learn from you and you learn from me and that's a part of the sharing process in here, okay.$But ma'am, can--what, what has been for you the highlight of your career of service? You've been involved--I mean--(unclear) (simultaneous)--$$Well, let me just tell--(simultaneous)--$$You, you've had a career as an educator (simultaneous)--$$Yeah, but let me just tell you a couple things for me. As a counselor--and the whole counseling profession has been major--has been mainly white males, okay. And for me, at that time, I was a high school counselor, chair of a department in a basically white school in Baltimore County [Maryland]. They had eighteen black kids and 1,800 students. But when I moved through and became the president-elect of the American School Counselor Association, okay. And that was in the '70s [1970s]. And let me tell you how institutionalized I was. Because I was elected to the board of the American School Counselor Association which I possibly was the first person of color. First, I was appointed to the board of American School Counselor Association and, and it was mainly male and we, we were--the building was located at 1607-1609 New Hampshire Avenue in Washington for the American Personnel and Guidance Association and the division was the American School Counselor Association, which was the largest division. After being on the board, the board members said, you're gonna become president. And I said, oh, no, not me. They said, you're gonna become president and they signed the petition for me to run to become president and I emerged to become president of the American School Counselor Association, which was breaking history. Our overall big, big organization was called the American Personnel and Guidance Association which is now--the name has been changed to the American Counseling Association. The American Counseling Association represents school counselors, mental health counselors, rehab counselors, college ed counselors, college supervisors. There fifteen divisions in it, okay. Are you not following me exactly in terms of the structure there, okay. I was first elected to become president of a division, the American School Counselor Association at that time. At that time, the division had 15,000 members but we represented all of the school counselors in the country but later I emerged to become the president of the overall organization, the American Personnel and Guidance Association of the American--now called the American Counseling Association, which is made up now fifteen division, represents all forms of counseling in the country; mental health counselors, you name it, there's a--the government counselors, whatever form of counseling there is, okay. And it's always been a male-dominated group and I broke the barriers to be the second female to emerge as president; and the first person of color to emerge in that organization. And not a year has passed that they have not asked me to be in some leadership role in the American Counseling Association. This past year for their convention in Anaheim, California, they asked me to keynote the convention. And I keynoted the very large convention of about, well, I guess by 7,000 people. I keynoted the convention in March in Anaheim, California. I've served as national treasurer twice. I've served as parliamentarian so many times. I've chaired every task force. I've chaired the foundation. I've chaired whatever major part--I was one of the persons to help set up the National Board for Certified Counselors and became the first secretary treasurer of the certifying body which is now a separate body of it, so that's been my involvement in my field, in my field itself and I'm very proud of my involvement in my field, which is counseling.