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Calvin Howell

Professor Calvin Howell was born on December 7, 1955 in Warrenton, North Carolina. After graduating from high school, Howell earned his B.S. degree in physics from Davidson College in 1978. He then attended Duke University where he received his Ph.D. degree in 1984 with a specialty in experimental nuclear physics. Then, Howell conducted postdoctoral research at the Triangle Universities Nuclear Laboratory (TUNL) for one year, serving as an instructor and research associate.

In 1985, he joined the faculty at Duke University as an assistant professor of physics. Howell was promoted to associate professor in 1992 and full professor in 2001. Also in 2001, Howell was hired as deputy director of the TUNL, a position he held until 2006 when he was promoted to director of TUNL. In addition to his positions at Duke University and TUNL, Howell held many visiting positions including visiting scientist at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC), the Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility and the Los Alamos National Laboratory. He has served as a nuclear physics program director at the National Science Foundation (NSF) and a member Department of Energy (DOE)/ NSF Nuclear Science Advisory Committee. Howell's research interests in experimental nuclear physics include the study of the strong interaction in few-nucleon systems, nuclear astrophysics, plant physiology using radioisotopes and national security. In 2011, he and his colleagues from Duke were involved in a measurements important for developing technologies for scanning cargo ships for harmful materials using nuclear 'fingerprints'. Howell has co-authored more than 110 scientific articles.

Howell has worked extensively with the American Physical Society including serving as a chair of the executive committee of the southeastern section, chair of the committee on minorities in physics and member of the executive committee on the Division of Nuclear Physics. Howell became an American Physical Society Fellow in 2006. He also participates in activities to promote academic opportunities for minority students including serving as academic coordinator for the Minority Medical Education Program at Duke University and a member of the Duke’s Presidential Council on Black Affairs. In 2008, Howell received the Samuel DuBois Cook Award for Service at Duke University. He lives in Durham, North Carolina.

Calvin Howell was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 21, 2012.

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Davidson College

Duke University

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Fall, Spring


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North Carolina

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Favorite Quote

Success is measured by how many people you help.

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North Carolina

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Favorite Food

Mexican Food, Spicy Food

Short Description

Physicist Calvin Howell (1955 - ) is the director of the Triangle Universities Nuclear Laboratory (TUNL) and has served as the nuclear physics program director at the National Science Foundation (NSF).


Triangle Universities Nuclear Laboratory (TUNL)

Duke University

North Carolina Central University

National Science Foundation (NSF)

Jefferson Laboratory

Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

Los Alamos National Laboratory

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Timing Pairs

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Calvin Howell's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Calvin Howell lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Calvin Howell describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Calvin Howell talks about his grandfather's emphasis on educating his daughters

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Calvin Howell talks about his mother's educational background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Calvin Howell describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Calvin Howell talks about his father's mechanical abilities

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Calvin Howell describes the old field school he attended

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Calvin Howell describes his parents' secret marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Calvin Howell describes his parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Calvin Howell talks about his siblings and describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Calvin Howell describes the sights, smells, and sounds of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Calvin Howell talks about civil rights in Palmer Springs, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Calvin Howell describes Palmer Springs, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Calvin Howell talks about his experience at Roanoke Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Calvin Howell talks about his aptitude for math

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Calvin Howell talks about his childhood interests

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Calvin Howell talks about his experience at Park View High School

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Calvin Howell talks about his mechanical talents

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Calvin Howell talks about his high school science education

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Calvin Howell talks about his siblings and their various career paths

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Calvin Howell explains his decision to attend Davidson College

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Calvin Howell talks about his experience at Davidson College

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Calvin Howell talks about his year at Howard University, part 1

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Calvin Howell talks about his year at Howard University, part 2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Calvin Howell describes his senior project on temperature physics

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Calvin Howell talks about his interest in experimental nuclear physics

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Calvin Howell describes his teaching experience at Duke University

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Calvin Howell describes his doctoral research

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Calvin Howell talks about Triangle University Nuclear Laboratory

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Calvin Howell describes his teaching experience at Duke University

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Calvin Howell describes his experience at Los Alamos National Laboratory and the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Calvin Howell talks about Jefferson Labroatory

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Calvin Howell talks about his experience at North Carolina Central University

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Calvin Howell talks about his return to Jefferson Laboratory

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Calvin Howell talks about Jefferson National Laboratory and the Nuclear Science Advisory Committee

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Calvin Howell discusses his role as the Nuclear Physics Program Director

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Calvin Howell talks about private and government funded research

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Calvin Howell describes his research in Jefferson Laboratory in 1999

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Calvin Howell describes his role in preparing students to enter the medical profession

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Calvin Howell talks about his role as Director of the Triangle University's Nuclear Laboratory

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Calvin Howell talks about the high intensity gamma ray source

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Calvin Howell describes uses for gamma ray technology

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Calvin Howell describes his work as Physics Department chair and medical physics professor

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Calvin Howell talks about the American Physical Society

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Calvin Howell describes his current research

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Calvin Howell talks about the number of minorities entering careers in physics

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Calvin Howell shares his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Calvin Howell talks about his legacy and career

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Calvin Howell talks about his family

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Calvin Howell talks about how he would like to be remembered







Calvin Howell describes his current research
Calvin Howell describes his senior project on temperature physics
Okay. Now you've published quite a bit and I--can you describe your latest work, your current work in layman's terms so we can understand what you're doing right now?$$So I guess the two most recent things that I--well I can tell you the easiest thing to describe is that some of the work that I did with the group in medical physics. One of the things that a group, one of my former colleagues and we're still working on it, was something called Inspect, I think it was called, neutron (unclear) by excited--god, I forget all the acronyms. But what he wanted--what this group wanted to do was to use neutron beams or particle beams to do diagnostics of tissue. There is a, there's data in literature, in the literature that shows that there are certain elements that have a higher frequency than normal in cancerous tissue and so with this information one of our collaborators started to look at suppose you had an imaging technology that could image tissue and tell you something about it's elemental composition? So, one way of doing that is to use similar techniques that are used in nuclear physics. And so what we were proposing to use is either a photon beam or high energy gamma ray beam like over at the HIGS [High Intensity Gamma-Ray Source] facility or a neutron beam that we can produce downstairs in our lower energy accelerator laboratory. And so we did that, we started an R&D program. First of all we stopped and we asked ourselves is there any fundamental physics reason why this can't work and the answer was no, but there are technical challenges. And the technical challenges is to make an accurate enough measurement to distinguish the abundance of certain elements like calcium was one of the things we wanted to look at. Iron was another one that we wanted to distinguish out and to look at the concentration of iron per cubit centimeter of tissue to see if we could get a signature for cancerous tissue. So that was one of the things we worked on and I think you'll see that in some of my recent publications. The other thing that I've always had a fascination with too that you'll see in some of my recent publications that are probably coming out within this year too is to measure the basic interaction between two neutrons, that still is a bit of a challenge to be able to do and one of the things that--so we've done that quite a few times and so you'll see that also in the literature. One of the problems of trying to measure the interaction between two neutrons is because we can make a neutron beam but we cannot make a neutron target and so we're always trying to measure that by some indirect technique that requires a theoretical interpretation of data. And so you know every five years or so we'll get a new idea of how to do that and so I think you'll see that in some of my most recent publications as well. And of course I think some of the work that we've been doing for homeland security and has recently come out in the literature and that is nuclear resonance florescence. For instance, we did nuclear resonance florescence on uranium 235 and uranium 238 and discovered new excited states in those elements that nobody had ever seen before and it's purely because we have the most sensitive facility for doing that in the world, that's the HIGS facility. It's the highest, most high--highest intensity polarized gamma ray beam in the world and that allows us to do certain things that nobody else can do.$$Okay. And so, that's part of a, Triangle Universities'--?$$Yeah. So one of the things that is, it's not my research but one of the emphasis at Triangle Universities Nuclear Laboratory is something called fundamental symmetries and the study of weak interactions. And to a lay person, people may ask why would anybody spend so much time studying fundamental symmetry and weak interactions? Weak interactions, what do I mean by that? If I, if the strong nuclear force, the thing that binds nuclei, it's--lets, let me give it a strength of one. Then the weak interaction which is the other part of the nuclear force is about 10-7 so it's about ten million times weaker than the strong interaction. Why is that important? Well there's a lot of consequences of it and it's--many are starting to believe that it is these weak interactions that led to the initial breaking of symmetries that give us the universe that we have today. That in the beginning there must have been some process, some force that broke the symmetry between for instance matter and anti-matter so we end up with a surplus of matter and that's why the universe is mostly matter today. But the other thing that's more at home that I think most people take for granted in a weak interaction and that is the burning of stars. Remember I told you that one of the things I missed about growing up on a farm and I kind of took for granted was the night sky? Well all of those dots, all of those stars are burning by nuclear fusion and generating light and the closest one to us is the sun, right? And so most people I think never think about the connection between nuclear process and life. In some ways we live on this planet because of the nuclear processes in the sun but those nuclear processes are not driven by the strong interaction, they're driven by that interaction that is ten million times weak. It is electro-weak fusing of four hydrogens to make helium that burns hydrogen to make our sun glow and that bathes our solar system with light and gives us the temperature for life to exist on this planet. So in some sense the electro-weak interaction is responsible for life on our planet and in a big way, it's responsible or life in the sense that supposed it was the strong interaction. It turns out that suns--stars like our sun live billions of years. Our sun I think is about five billion years now and scientists predict it has about five to seven more billion years it can burn. Well it takes billions of years for life to develop on planets. If it was burning by the strong interactions, stars would live probably millions of years not billions. So that weak force, that if you just took it for granted that why are scientists studying and putting so much effort in it, has huge consequences. So something small can have a consequence. That's one of the reasons I really am fascinated by subatomic physics.$Now you were working on an important project your senior year from what I read, right?$$Yeah, so that's how I became connected to Duke [Duke University]. So I was--to do an honor's thesis you had to do a, an experiment. So I was doing an experiment in low temperature physics measuring I guess the magnetic field strength that--or demonstrating the magnetic field strength that a super conductor would quench. And a very famous physicist came to Davidson, gave a talk by the name of Professor Hors Meyer (ph.) who is now a colleague of mine here at Duke and he talked on Helium 3 phase transitions. That was his--one of the areas that he worked on, one of the topics of his research exploration. And while there he visited with undergraduates. He was a phenomenal individual that he really encouraged young people to do science and research in particular. And so he came down to the lab where I was working, I showed him what I was trying to do and told him what the technical challenges were and he of course understood them. And went back, came back to Duke and remembered my project and sent me some super conducting wire to make myself a super conducting solenoid for my experiment. And it--that experience, I never forgot it because when he came down, I knew he was pleasant. He was pleasant to everybody. I mean he was a gentleman. I kind of thought that once he came back and got busy with his research he wouldn't remember. But he remembered and he sent the roll of wire back and told us to use what we needed and keep the rest for future projects and I never forgot that. So when I started applying to graduate schools, I applied to Duke, Georgetown, American University and the University of Maryland. And so you can see probably a lot of them were in the Washington, D.C. [Washington, District of Columbia] area and that was kind of a personal choice for a number of reasons. But when I visited Duke, one of the things that stuck out was that first of all Professor Meyer was here and he took a lot of time to talk with me when I visited and encouraged me to choose Duke. And then a lot of other professors stopped what they were doing and met with me and you know this is somebody passing through on their spring break from college to visit graduate schools. I forget what time of year it was but it was about that time when you did that. And so I came with the idea after accepting and coming to Duke with the idea that I'd work with Professor Meyer but I changed my mind after being here and he was understanding and supportive of even that and has been a great support all of my professional career as quite a few of my colleagues here when I--that know me in making a transition from being a student to a researcher.$$Okay. Well were you--you earned your BS in 70--$$'78 [1978].$$Eight, okay. So you go into a program like many people do which is a combined Ph.--Masters-Ph.D. program right?$$Right.$$Here at Duke? Okay. So what did you focus on--?$$So after coming here I decided to do research in experimental nuclear physics and that was for a variety of reasons I was attracted to that field.

The Honorable Tyrone Brooks

Georgia State Representative Tyrone Brooks was born October 10, 1945, in Warrenton, Georgia. Brooks attended public school in Warrenton, and later went to high school in Keysville, Georgia.

Brooks became active in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference at the age of fifteen as a volunteer, and by 1967 he was a full-time employee. While there he met such influential leaders as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Joseph Lowery; and the Reverend Ralph David Abernathy. Brooks served in both local and national positions with the SCLC. He was arrested in 1976 in Washington, D.C., while protesting outside the South African Embassy. All told, he has been arrested more than sixty-five times for his civil rights activism. In 1980, Brooks was elected to the Georgia House of Representatives, where he continues to serve. He is active on a number of committees, and led the push to remove Confederate symbols from the Georgia state flag.

Brooks is also president of the Georgia Association of Black Elected Officials, and is a member of the Georgia Legislative Black Caucus. He is still highly involved in the civil rights movement, working to eradicate racism, sexism, illiteracy and injustice.

Brooks received his first honorary degree from the John Marshall School of Law in 2001 as a result of his successful campaigning to change the state flag. He has also been awarded with a Public Servant Award from the Atlanta City Council, been inducted into the NAACP Hall of Fame, and named one of the 50 Most Influential Men in Georgia by the Georgia Coalition of Black Women. Brooks and his wife, Mary, live in Atlanta.

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University of Chicago

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Speakers Bureau Preferred Audience

Human Rights, Politics, Criminal Justice

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

Yes - $5,000 - $10,000

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Preferred Audience: Human Rights, Politics, Criminal Justice



Favorite Vacation Destination


Favorite Quote

Unity in the Black community is our salivation

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Favorite Food

Soul Food

Short Description

State representative The Honorable Tyrone Brooks (1945 - ) is a member of the Georgia House of Representatives, and led the push to remove Confederate symbols from the Georgia state flag.


Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC)

George House of Representatives

Favorite Color


Timing Pairs

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Tyrone Brooks interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks details his family origins in Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks recalls his grandmother and the privilege her biracial status granted him

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks discusses his grandmother's white father

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Tyrone Brooks describes his parents

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Tyrone Brooks recounts how his parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks lists his siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks shares childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks remembers segregation

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks recounts instances of racial violence in Warrenton, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks recalls the media's influence on the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Tyrone Brooks describes his elementary school years and teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Tyrone Brooks discusses the importance of disciplining children

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Tyrone Brooks remembers high school athletics

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Tyrone Brooks recounts his early involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks details his recruitment into the SCLC

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks remembers meeting Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks recalls his work with the SCLC

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks describes his preparatory school

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks recounts his time in Washington, D.C. with Reverend Walter Fauntroy

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Tyrone Brooks remembers averting a crisis with the SCLC

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Tyrone Brooks recalls attending a speech by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks describes a monument to a murdered civil rights worker, Viola Liuzzo

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks details training and recruitment in the SCLC

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks discusses staying nonviolent in the face of violence

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks recalls a frightening incident during his activist years

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks recounts a life-threatening incident during his SCLC tenure

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Tyrone Brooks details the aftermath of his confrontation with the sheriff

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks recounts his unjust imprisonment for his civil rights activism

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks recalls how Sheriff Odom begged his forgiveness

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks reflects on the impact of nonviolent resistance on the U.S.

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks remembers his last meeting with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks describes the Poor People's Campaign

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks recalls being jailed during Resurrection City

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks details his work with Ralph Abernathy and Hosea Williams

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks recounts SCLC's efforts to end apartheid

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks conveys the changes following the election of Jimmy Carter

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks describes Jimmy Carter and his works

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Tyrone Brooks discusses nominating Dr. Joseph Lowery for a Nobel Peace Prize

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Tyrone Brooks reflects on Jimmy Carter's mistakes

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks recalls Ralph Abernathy and Hosea Williams endorsing Ronald Reagan

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks explains why he ran for a seat in the Georgia state legislature

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks shares his first challenge as a state representative

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks details the fight over reapportionment of black districts

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Tyrone Brooks describes his efforts to curb racial violence in Georgia

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Tyrone Brooks recounts the struggle to create a Martin Luther King holiday

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Tyrone Brooks discusses his work and legislation on welfare reform

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Tyrone Brooks explains why he wanted to change the Georgia state flag

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Tyrone Brooks remembers how he fought to change the Georgia state flag

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks details his struggle to change the Georgia state flag

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Tyrone Brooks explains Denmark Groover's role in changing the Georgia state flag

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Tyrone Brooks recounts the referendum to ratify the new flag

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Tyrone Brooks discusses his concerns for the black community

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Tyrone Brooks ponders his legacy

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with Rev. Jesse Jackson, Atlanta, Georgia, ca. 2000

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks, ca. 1951

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Photo - Hosea Williams at the Georgia State Capitol, Atlanta, Georgia, January 14, 2000

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks at the podium at the Georgia State Capitol, Atlanta, Georgia, ca. 1993

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks on the Jesse Jackson campaign for U.S. President, Atlanta, Georgia, 1984

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks, John Conyers, and an unidentified man, Washington, D.C., ca. 1985

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with others, Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with Rommie Loudd, Orlando, Florida, 1978

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks and others at SCLC headquarters, Atlanta, Georgia, ca. 1970-1980

Tape: 9 Story: 11 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with Rev. Hosea Williams, Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 9 Story: 12 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks and others giving a press conference in front of the Atlanta City Hall, Atlanta, Georgia, 1981

Tape: 9 Story: 13 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks being presented an award by Dr. Joseph Lowery at an SCLC function, Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 9 Story: 14 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with Cynthia McKinney and President Bill Clinton, 1999

Tape: 9 Story: 15 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with members of Jesse Jackson's Presidential campaign, Atlanta, Georgia, 1984

Tape: 9 Story: 16 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with Mrs. Juanita Abernathy and Dr. Ralph Abernathy, Atlanta, Georgia, 1989

Tape: 9 Story: 17 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks, Jacksonville, Florida, ca. late 1970s

Tape: 9 Story: 18 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with his son, Tyrone Brooks, Jr., Atlanta, Georgia, ca. 1980s

Tape: 9 Story: 19 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks at the SCLC headquarters, Atlanta, Georgia, 1980

Tape: 9 Story: 20 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks and others, Keysville, Georgia, ca. 1987-1988

Tape: 9 Story: 21 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with John Lewis, Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 9 Story: 22 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks, Atlanta, Georgia, January 2001

Tape: 9 Story: 23 - Photo - Tyrone Brooks with Roy and Marie Barnes, Atlanta, Georgia, 2001

Tape: 9 Story: 24 - Photo - Jesse Jackson with Rita Samuels, Atlanta, Georgia, ca. 2001







Tyrone Brooks details the aftermath of his confrontation with the sheriff
Tyrone Brooks details the fight over reapportionment of black districts
The media was covering this, of course, and the next day the headlines around the state [Georgia], 'Sheriff Threatens Brooks.' 'Sheriff Threatens to Kill Civil Rights Worker.' And that generated so much anger in the black community and on these campuses that the next night, Dr. [Ralph] Abernathy came, Hosea Williams came, students from the University of Georgia [Athens, Georgia], students from Emory at Oxford [College of Emory University, Oxford, Georgia]. They have a campus down there right out of Covington in Newton County. Oxford. Students from Paine College in Augusta [Georgia], Fort Valley College [now Fort Valley State University, Fort Valley Georgia], Clark Atlanta University, Morehouse [College, Atlanta, Georgia], Spelman [College, Atlanta, Georgia], Morris Brown [College, Atlanta, Georgia], Georgia Tech [Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta]. It just seemed like all these campuses, these students just like, "We're coming." The next night, we probably had three or four thousand people, the next night cause the media blew it up. The next day it was, it was the talk of Georgia, man. I mean it was everywhere, headlines and tv coverage. So the next night when Hosea and Dr. Abernathy showed up, we had a meeting prior to the march. And since, you know, they were my superiors, they were my bosses, I assumed that they wanted to lead it. And Dr. Abernathy said, "Well, no, no, no." He said, "You're in charge. You're on the scene. We're here to back you up." And he said, "We--you lead--you're going to lead the march tonight." And I said, "Okay." So we--they said, "We're gonna be right behind you. And we're gonna show the sheriff [Junior Odom] that if he bothers you, he's gonna have to deal with us. And if he bothers us, there's gonna be some more people behind us." And so anyway, that was the point they were trying to make. So we gathered at our church, same church. We marched uptown to the little square in downtown Covington. We had our rally in the park. I had Hosea and Dr. Abernathy to speak, and then we marched out of the park. And we went over to the jailhouse, looking for the sheriff. Couldn't find him. Then we marched to his house where he lives; couldn't find him. We marched all over town, singing, "Ain't gon' let Junior Odom turn us around, ain't gon' let Sheriff Odom turn us around". And we couldn't find him. He didn't show up that night. So we go back to the church, have a big victory rally, and the Movement continues on. So about a week later, I'm leading this march and the sheriff pulls up in his car beside me and he got his, couple of deputies with him. He jumps out, and he says, "Well, you're under arrest." It was not uncommon to go to jail all the time in the Movement. "You're under arrest." "For what?" "Inciting a riot, marching without a permit." I said, "Well, the United States Constitution is our permit, and where did you get the, the accusation that I'm inciting a riot?" "Well, we've heard a lot of speeches and maybe you didn't say it, but somebody, somebody said something about some violence is gonna happen if we don't do this or that." Well, he arrest me. He put me in jail. The next day Hosea sends Robert Johnson down. And Robert Johnson leads another march. He's arrested. The next day Hosea sends Lloyd Jackson down. Lloyd leads a march. He's arrested. And the next day, we have Forrest Sawyer, one of the local leaders. He leads a march. He's arrested. Then the next day Joe Lightfoot. It just kept going on. And every night, they would arrest a leader, always get one leader. That's what the sheriff would do. He thought this was going break the Movement. What it did was, it gave the Movement energy 'cause every time they would put one of us in jail, it would seem like a hundred more people would come out and it would just get bigger and bigger and big--and the crowd just grew. And so we were in the jail, awaiting trial on these little Civil Rights trumped-up charges. Now, we're in jail. We could see out of the windows. You could actually open the windows up. They had these bars on the windows, but you could open the glass part and look out. The, the marchers would come to the jail every night to protest our arrest. But the boycott of the businesses intensified. It just got bigger and stronger. Black folks were not spending their money in the county or the city. They would drive to Conyers and Monroe and Social Circle, Monticello, Atlanta, Decatur, Conyers, wherever. They would not spend money there. So the local economy was hurt.$Then 1981, '82 [1982], we went through our first reapportionment, my first reapportionment. Not--the first apportionment for the, for the African American legislators who were here. We went through the first one. And it was ugly. It was, it was tough. We were fighting for one majority black congressional district out of ten. There were ten congressional districts. We only wanted one, and we wanted it right here in Atlanta [Georgia] where we made up sufficient population to justify one. The leadership of the Democratic Party said, "No, you can't have one in this reapportionment process."$$Just a question now. Now, what is the percentage of black residents in Georgia?$$The percentage of black residents in the state of Georgia is about 30 percent. In Atlanta, it's about seventy percent. So in 1981, '82 [1982], we were fighting over one majority black district in the whole Congressional delegation. The leadership of the Democratic Party said, "No, we're not going to give it to you." The Democrats controlled the House [of Representatives], Democrats controlled the Senate, and they controlled the Executive branch, the Governor's office. So us [Georgia] Legislative Black Caucus members decided to fight to get one, one out of ten. We had to sue the state. That year Black Caucus members, which numbered probably fifteen or twenty--today we're forty-nine, but then we were about fifteen or twenty, we formed an alliance with the Republicans in the legislature. We formed this alliance. And we went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, and we won. We won that district. We beat back the attempts to deny us that one district. And today, John Lewis is representing us in the United States Congress in the 5th Congressional District from Atlanta, Georgia.