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Cecilia A. Conrad

Foundation executive and academic administrator Cecilia Conrad was born on January 4, 1955 in St. Louis, Missouri to Dr. Emmett James Conrad and Eleanor Nelson Conrad. She moved with her family to Dallas, Texas after her father was hired at St. Paul’s Hospital. Conrad went on to receive her B.A. degree in economics from Wellesley College in 1976 and her Ph.D. degree in economics from Stanford University in 1982.

Conrad began her career in academia in 1981 when she was hired as an assistant professor of economics at Duke University. From there, she taught at Barnard College and then Pomona College as a Stedman-Sumner professor of economics. In 2002, Conrad was named California’s Carnegie Professor of the Year. Two years later, she became associate dean of Pomona College. During her time as a college administrator, Conrad continued to publish on the issue of race and gender on economic status. After taking a two year hiatus to serve as interim vice president and dean of the faculty at Scripps College, Conrad returned to Pomona College as vice president for academic affairs and dean of the college. In 2013, Conrad left Pomona to join the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation as the vice president of the MacArthur Fellows Program. After two years at the foundation, Conrad became the managing director of both the MacArthur Fellows Program and 100&Change. In 2019, Conrad became chief executive officer of Lever for Change, an affiliate of the MacArthur Foundation focused on high impact philanthropic opportunities.

Conrad served as editor of The Review of Black Political Economy and an associate editor of Feminist Economics. She has published articles on economics, liberal arts education, and philanthropy in peer-reviewed journals and popular media. While working at Pomona College, Conrad also directed the American Economic Association’s “Pipeline Mentoring Program,” matching students enrolled in a Ph.D. program in economics with mentors in the field. In 2007, Conrad became the president of the International Association for Feminist Economics. She is on the board of trustees at Muhlenberg College, Bryn Mawr College, the Poetry Foundation, and the National Academy of Social Insurance.

Conrad has received numerous awards for her work. Her co-edited collection of essays, African Americans in the US Economy, was named a CHOICE Outstanding Academic Title of 2005. Three years later, she received the National Urban League’s 2008 Woman of Power Award. She has also received honorary doctorates from Claremont Graduate University and the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth.

Conrad and her husband, Llewellyn Miller, have one child: Conrad Miller.

Cecilia Conrad was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on July 12, 2019.

Accession Number

A2019.049

Sex

Female

Interview Date

7/12/2019

Last Name

Conrad

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

A

Schools

Wellesley College

Stanford Graduate School of Business

First Name

Cecilia

Birth City, State, Country

St. Louis

HM ID

CON08

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Missouri

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

1/4/1955

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Foundation executive and academic administrator Cecilia Conrad (1955 - ) served as managing director of the MacArthur Fellows Program and 100&Change before becoming chief executive officer of Lever for Change.

Employment

Pomona College

Scripps College

American Economic Association

Barnard College, Columbia University

Duke University

The Review of Black Political Economy

Feminist Economics

MacArthur Foundation

Favorite Color

Red

Sybil Hampton

Foundation executive Sybil Hampton was born on September 1, 1944 in Springfield, Missouri to Lorraine H. Jordan and Leslie W. Jordan. Hampton grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas, where she was among the second group of African American students to attend Central High School in 1959, two years after the Little Rock Nine integrated the school. Hampton graduated in 1962, and received her B.A. degree in English literature from Earlham College in 1966. She then earned her M.S.T. degree in elementary education from the University of Chicago in 1968, her M.Ed. degree in higher education from Columbia University Teacher’s College in 1982, and her Ed.D. degree, also from Columbia, in 1991.

Hampton worked as an elementary school teacher at the Louis Champlain School in Chicago, Illinois, and as an academic administrator at Iona College and served as director of the Higher Education Opportunity Program in New Rochelle, New York. In 1985, she became the contributions manager of education and culture at the GTE Corporate Foundation in Stamford, Connecticut. She then worked as the assistant dean of student academic affairs at the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s School of Family Resources and Consumer Sciences from 1987 to 1993, when she became the special assistant to the president at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. From 1996 to 2006, Hampton served as president of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation in Little Rock. She was the general manager of the Arkansas Symphony Orchestra for the 2006-2007 season. In 2007, she founded her own business consulting firm, Sybil Jordan Hampton and Associates.

Hampton has served on the boards of the Reynolds Institute on Aging at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, the Mount Holly Cemetery Association, the Little Rock Club, the Blue and You Foundation and Arkansas Blue Cross and Blue Shield. In 2014, the Attorney General of Arkansas appointed her to a five year term on the Arkansas Ethics Commission. She is a life member of Girls Scouts of America.

Hampton has received numerous awards and honors for her civic work, including being named as a Woman of Achievement by Iona College in 1986, and as one of Arkansas Business’ Top 100 Women in Arkansas on several occasions. In 1998, she received Earlham College’s Outstanding Alumni Award. Hampton was also the 2002 recipient of the National Conference for Community and Justice Humanitarian Award. In 2005, she was inducted into the Arkansas Black Hall of Fame and in 2014, Hampton was appointed to the Arkansas Ethics Commission. Hampton served as a member of the Association of Black Foundation Executives and received alumni awards from the University of Chicago and Columbia University’s Teachers College.

Sybil Hampton was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 14, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.045

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/14/2018

Last Name

Hampton

Maker Category
Middle Name

Jordan

Organizations
First Name

Sybil

Birth City, State, Country

Spring Field

HM ID

HAM05

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Missouri

Favorite Vacation Destination

Big Island, Hawaii

Favorite Quote

That Child Don’t Realize That Fat Meat Is Greasy.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Arkansas

Birth Date

9/1/1944

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Little Rock

Favorite Food

Purple Peas

Short Description

Foundation executive Sybil Hampton (1944 - ) was the president of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation from 1996 to 2006. She then founded the consulting firm of Sybil Jordan Hampton and Associates.

Favorite Color

Red

Franklin A. Thomas

Foundation executive and lawyer Franklin A. Thomas was born on May 24, 1934 in Brooklyn, New York to James and Viola Thomas. He graduated from Franklin K. Lane High School in 1952, and attended Columbia University, where he played basketball, became the first African American to captain an Ivy League basketball team, and was named the league’s most valuable player in 1955 and 1956. Thomas earned his B.A. degree from Columbia University in 1956 and went on to earn his L.L.B. degree from Columbia Law School in 1963.

After earning his B.A. degree, Thomas joined the U.S. Air Force as a strategic air command navigator, where he served as captain from 1956 to 1960. In 1964, he was admitted to the New York State Bar and began his legal career as an attorney at the Federal Housing and Home Finance Agency’s New York office. During the same year, Thomas served as Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. From 1965 to 1967, he served as deputy police commissioner in charge of legal matters for the New York City Police Department, where he established the Civilian Complaint Review Board. From 1967 to 1977, Thomas served as president and chief executive officer for the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation, and was credited with raising approximately $63 million in public and private funds, and serving in the forefront of community redevelopment efforts. In 1977, Thomas resumed his private legal practice, until 1979, when he was selected to serve as the first African American president of the Ford Foundation, where he served until 1996.

Thomas served as the chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation-funded Study Commission on U.S. Policy Toward South Africa from 1979 to 1981, and produced the comprehensive, groundbreaking report on apartheid, Time Running Out. He went on to serve as a member of the U.S. Secretary of State’s Advisory Committee on South Africa from 1985 to 1987.

Thomas served as chairman of the Secretary of State’s Advisory Committee on South Africa, the Study Commission on United States Policy Toward Southern Africa, and the September 11th Fund. He has also served on the board of directors for the Aluminum Company of America, Avaya, CBS Inc., Cummins Engine Co., Inc., Citicorp/Citibank, and Lucent Technologies. In 2005, Thomas founded the TFF Study Group, a nonprofit organization dedicated to development in South Africa in 2005.

Thomas is the recipient of numerous awards, including: The Lyndon Baines Johnson Award for “Contributions to the Betterment of Urban Life,” the John Jay and Alexander Hamilton Awards from Columbia College, and Columbia Law School’s James Kent Medal for distinguished professional achievement. He is also the recipient of Columbia University’s Medal of Excellence. He has been granted honorary degrees from Bank Street College, Columbia University, Fordham University, New School University, Pace University, Pratt University and Yale University. In 2003, Thomas was named one of four “kingmakers” in corporate America by Fortune magazine.

Franklin A. Thomas was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 28, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.088

Sex

Male

Interview Date

04/26/2017 |and| 06/28/2017

Last Name

Thomas

Maker Category
Middle Name

A.

Schools

Franklin K. Lane High School

Columbia University

J.H.S. 33 Mark Hopkins Junior High School

P.S. 44 Marcus Garvey Elementary School

Columbia Law School

First Name

Franklin

Birth City, State, Country

Brooklyn

HM ID

THO26

Favorite Season

Fall, Summer

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

How Are You?

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

5/27/1934

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken And Rice

Short Description

Foundation executive and lawyer Franklin A. Thomas (1934 - ) was the first African American president of the Ford Foundation, after serving as the president and CEO of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation.

Employment

Ford Foundation

Faucus and Baron

U.S. Air Force

Housing and Home Finance Agency

U.S. Attorney's Office, Southern District of New York

New York City Police Department

Civilian Complain Review Board

Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas narrates his photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas narrates his photographs, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Slating of Franklin A. Thomas' interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his parents' migration to New York City

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the drum and bugle corps at the Concord Baptist Church in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his childhood activities

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the gang activity in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his interactions with gangs in New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his mother's influence

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls an altercation between his mother and her boarders

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his maternal uncle

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls lessons from his mother

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his experiences at J.H.S. 33 in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his early education

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his high school basketball career

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his summer position at an architectural firm

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his experiences at Columbia University in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his coursework at Columbia University

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his challenges at Columbia University

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon his time at Columbia University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his NAACP activities at Columbia University

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his experiences on the basketball team at Columbia University

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his perception of racism

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his service in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his role in the Strategic Air Command

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his basketball records at Columbia University

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his mother's emphasis on self-determination

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his older sisters

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his mother's emphasis on education

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his travels with the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls how he became a navigator in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his decision to attend Columbia Law School in New York City

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his experiences at Columbia Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls being hired at the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers prosecuting a domestic terrorism case, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers prosecuting a domestic terrorism case, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas describes how he became deputy police commissioner of New York City

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers New York City Mayor John Lindsay

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the Civilian Complaint Review Board of the New York City Police Department, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the Civilian Complaint Review Board of the New York City Police Department, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls the corruption in the New York City Police Department

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his relationship with the Harlem Clubhouse

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers Earl G. Graves, Sr.

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the creation of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls becoming president of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls becoming president of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the leaders of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the Community Home Improvement Program

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls the problems in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his challenges at the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the gentrification of the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his legacy at the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the financial success of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon his time at the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his relationship with Vernon E. Jordan, Jr., pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his relationship with Vernon E. Jordan, Jr., pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers meeting John Hay Whitney

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation's cable television venture

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his wife, Kate Roosevelt Whitney

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his board memberships

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls how he became the president of the Ford Foundation

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his corporate board memberships

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon his experience as an African American in Corporate America

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his tenure on the board of Citibank, N.A.

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his invitation to the board of Citibank, N.A.

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his transition to the Ford Foundation, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his transition to the Ford Foundation, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his tenure at the Ford Foundation, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his tenure at the Ford Foundation, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his successor at the Ford Foundation

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his changes to the Ford Foundation, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his changes to the Ford Foundation, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas lists his charitable board memberships

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Slating of Franklin A. Thomas' interview, session 2

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his basketball teammate, Albert Vann

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his decision to attend Columbia University

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the importance of education

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the student protests at Columbia University

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls the student protests on South Africa

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the black community at Columbia University

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his mother's lessons about racial discrimination

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers Robert M. Morgenthau

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the conspiracy to bomb the Statue of Liberty

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about mandatory minimum sentences

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his decision to leave the U.S. attorney's office

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers Police Commissioner Howard R. Leary

Tape: 12 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about Robert F. Kennedy's commitment to the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 12 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his early involvement with the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 12 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the rising property values in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 13 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls the early leaders of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 13 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his start at the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 13 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the Bedford-Stuyvesant Development and Services Corporation

Tape: 13 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers dissolving the Bedford-Stuyvesant Development and Services Corporation

Tape: 13 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers John Doar

Tape: 13 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the staff of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 13 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his role on the Knapp Commission

Tape: 13 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the Knapp Commission

Tape: 14 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the history of Bedford-Stuyvesant in Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 14 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his early interactions with the Ford Foundation

Tape: 14 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the Ford Foundation funding of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 14 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls how he met J. Irwin Miller and Henry Schacht

Tape: 14 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation's architectural investments

Tape: 14 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon the success of the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation

Tape: 14 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his family

Tape: 14 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers the development of Continental Cablevision, Inc.

Tape: 14 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his relationship with the Whitney family

Tape: 15 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about John Hay Whitney's philanthropy

Tape: 15 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers meeting Kate Roosevelt Whitney

Tape: 15 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers interviewing for the presidency of the Ford Foundation

Tape: 15 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the Ford Foundation's financial problems

Tape: 15 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his relationship with President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Tape: 15 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers McGeorge Bundy

Tape: 15 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the leadership of the Ford Foundation, pt. 1

Tape: 15 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the leadership of the Ford Foundations, pt. 2

Tape: 16 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his assessment of the Ford Foundation's operations

Tape: 16 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his changes to the Ford Foundation

Tape: 16 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his interview with The New York Times

Tape: 16 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the Ford Foundation's philanthropic work

Tape: 16 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his assessment of the Ford Foundation's funding efforts

Tape: 16 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his development of the Ford Foundation

Tape: 16 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his relationship with Vernon E. Jordan, Jr.

Tape: 16 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon the experiences that led him to the Ford Foundation

Tape: 16 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers Mary Griggs Jordan

Tape: 17 Story: 1 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the 'Time Running Out' report, pt. 1

Tape: 17 Story: 2 - Franklin A. Thomas describes the 'Time Running Out' report, pt. 2

Tape: 17 Story: 3 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers meeting Nelson Mandela

Tape: 17 Story: 4 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls Nelson Mandela and F.W. de Klerk's visit to the United States, pt. 1

Tape: 17 Story: 5 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls Nelson Mandela and F.W. de Klerk's visit to the United States, pt. 2

Tape: 17 Story: 6 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls meeting with F. W. de Klerk upon Nelson Mandela's release

Tape: 17 Story: 7 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers Nelson Mandela's release from prison

Tape: 17 Story: 8 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his involvement with South Africa's government, pt. 1

Tape: 17 Story: 9 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his involvement with South Africa's government, pt. 2

Tape: 17 Story: 10 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his mentorship of South African lawyers

Tape: 17 Story: 11 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his relationship with Nelson Mandela

Tape: 17 Story: 12 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the Constitutional Court of South Africa

Tape: 17 Story: 13 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers Albie Sachs and Arthur Chaskalson

Tape: 17 Story: 14 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about Nelson Mandela's wives

Tape: 17 Story: 15 - Franklin A. Thomas remembers his advice to Nelson Mandela

Tape: 17 Story: 16 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the life of Nelson Mandela

Tape: 17 Story: 17 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about the African National Congress

Tape: 17 Story: 18 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon the international reputation of the United States

Tape: 17 Story: 19 - Franklin A. Thomas recalls his chairmanship of the September 11th Fund

Tape: 17 Story: 20 - Franklin A. Thomas talks about his marriage to Kate Roosevelt Whitney

Tape: 17 Story: 21 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his wife, Kate Roosevelt Whitney

Tape: 17 Story: 22 - Franklin A. Thomas reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 17 Story: 23 - Franklin A. Thomas describes his concerns for the African American community

Tape: 17 Story: 24 - Franklin A. Thomas describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

2$2

DATape

12$16

DAStory

7$2

DATitle
Franklin A. Thomas describes his early involvement with the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation
Franklin A. Thomas talks about his changes to the Ford Foundation
Transcript
And it's during that period that I get a call from the senator's office, and Earl Graves [HistoryMaker Earl G. Graves, Sr.], who's then working for the senator, must have mentioned my name to him; he had no other--I don't know what other sources there were, but certainly I suspect Earl was among them. And I get a call and they--I go and meet with the, the senator, and he explains what his vision is and what he's assembled up to that point, and that he's trying to work with these different groups in Bedford-Stuyvesant [Brooklyn, New York] and they need someone who can handle all of that and be, at the same time, accessible to the business group. And, for some reason, it kind of strikes me as something that--unplanned on my part, but maybe I ought to try and be helpful. So, I--I think I told you this story--I go to the meeting with the local people, and Elsie Richardson among them, and others who later become great friends, but at that point--I mean the beginning is, "What makes you think you're qualified to do what needs to be done here?" I mean that's the opening wedge for this meeting (laughter). And so we have a lengthy conversation, and I go back to Kennedy [Robert F. Kennedy] and his assembled group and say, "You know, I think it's an interesting idea. I don't think I'm the person that the community would seek to oversee this. And I say that be- not as any knock on me, but because, in my opinion, they have someone in mind who they would like to be in that position--someone they know and have worked with in the past, and who has some credentials," et cetera. So that's my impression from my meeting that I relate to the senator, and he says, "You know I, I know but that--we, we know of that person, and we've done a check there, and it's a well intentioned idea, but he's not the person that can lead this, so would you please not withdraw yourself from this while we search to see if we can find a person of--that's acceptable to both parties?" So, I say, "Okay." I'm as interested in seeing something done well as anyone. So I agree to spend some time with the local folk as they go through looking at what had been done in a, a couple of other cities--where Ed Logue [Edward J. Logue] had worked, and people whom Kennedy had brought into Bedford-Stuyvesant [Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation, New York, New York], and I.M. Pei had brought in, and others had been brought in.$$I.M. Pei, who is the architect, right?$$He's the architect, yeah.$$Um-hm.$$And so--anyway, a few months go by; I--I've got my own job I'm working on, but I spend time with them, and they finally double back and say, "Well, you're not our first choice but unless you're willing to do this, it's probably not gonna happen." And the Kennedy people are saying basically the same thing, and that the person the local group seemed more interested in is not someone that the business group thinks can do the job, so I said, "Okay," I would do it for two years to get it started, and so I did. And I spent the next ten years there, and I'm happy to say it's having its fiftieth anniversary upcoming, and some of the same people are happily still there. Most have passed on, but there's another generation there, and yeah, we're all pretty proud of what's happened--yeah. And Al Vann [Albert Vann] still lives there, Gil Scott [Gilbert L. Scott] still lives there; a number of the people that, you know, I grew up with are there and involved with what's going on.$So I held meetings with the staff [of the Ford Foundation, New York, New York] in all the different areas and laid out where we were, where we had been, what had happened in the ensuing ten or twelve years, what trajectory we were on, and what that could mean going forward. So either we're going to fix things while we still have the ability to do that, with the hope that we can reposition it so it can be around in perpetuity. And that means that some who think they have a lifetime arrangement are gonna be disappointed because we're going to trim the staff and, (makes noise). So, anyway, we did all that.$$You did a lot of trimming of staff.$$Yeah.$$This was--it was, I think, what--a quarter of the staff?$$Yeah (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Like over a hundred--it was over a hundred and something positions.$$Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a lot, it was a lot. And everybody got--I mean they're all disappointed obviously, but everybody got treated as well as you could expect to be treated; you're given three or four years of coverage, but it's the end. So I go to The New York Times, at their invitation--$$After some of this has happened.$$After some of this has happened.$$And this is--this is the--but it took--so it--you're saying within the year of stu- after that year of study this is when you make the decision now?$$Yeah.$$How long does it take to get board alignment? That's a--$$I'd say about three years--to get it all sorted, and then I, I double back to The New York Times, at their invitation, and they, they start by saying to me--I've--never forget (laughter) the conversation. "You know it's, it's been a while since we last spoke." He said, "Oh, I would like to know what's, what's happened, you know, since then," and all that. And so we're--I give them a, a, a rundown, a generalized rundown of what we've done and where we then were financially, and how I saw the future and, you know, their, their response was, "You know, well, you know, it's obvious that place needed to be restructured, (mumbling)." And so I say back to them, "You mean now that I've survived you, what I did was obvious, is that it?" "No, I didn't mean that." "Oh, you guys are just so full of shit, you know--stop it!" You know. But I, I knew the, the then head of the newspaper from my Columbia [Columbia University, New York, New York] days; we'd both been trustees at Columbia, and so I was pretty relaxed with, with--I wasn't angry at all; I'm just saying (laughter), you know, "Now that I've survived you, you tell me what I did was obvious."$$Well, because they had--I remember reading the one article where they were, you know, talking about you being sequestered behind--$$Yeah, yeah.$$--and then--well, I--you let go like some key people at the beginning, but you had to get your team in place, too (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) That's right, that's right. Well, they were--$$And Harold Howe [Harold Howe II] was one of--but--$$They were all angry when they left.

Reuben Harpole

Academic administrator and foundation executive Reuben Harpole was born on September 4, 1934 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin to Reuben K. Harpole, Sr. and Mardree Johnson Harpole. He graduated from North Division High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and earned his B.S. degree in elementary education in 1978 from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

Harpole served at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee School of Continuing Education for thirty-one years as a senior outreach specialist at the University Center for Urban Community Development. In 1998, he went to work as a program officer for the Helen Bader Foundation (now Bader Philanthropies, Inc.), where he spearheaded the selection of 758 grants totaling more than $6.4 million. In 2007, Harpole established the Reuben K. Harpole Jr. Education Scholarship at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, which invested $19,000 in the college education of young African American men interested in teaching.

Harpole served as a civil rights worker and community leader who led development efforts for several Milwaukee institutions including the Black Holocaust Museum, the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee's Center for Urban Community Development, and the Harambee Community Development Corporation. Harpole is credited for his contributions to the founding of more than twenty-five community centers and programs that promote education including Milwaukee Public Schools’ Homework First program, the Milwaukee Community Sailing Center, 100 Black Men of Greater Milwaukee, and Bader Philanthropies’ Community Partnerships for Youth.

He was the recipient of numerous awards and honors for his dedicated civic work and promotion of education. In 2005, the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee awarded Harpole an honorary doctorate degree of humane letters for his work in improving Milwaukee communities. On September 21, 2009, he was honored as the official “Paramount Chief of Milwaukee” and received a portion of Second Street, near North Avenue. Milwaukee named the section of Second Street, “Reuben K. Harpole, Jr. Avenue.” In 2015, Harpole and his wife, were awarded the first Distinguished Educator of the Year award at Celebrate Teachers & Teaching. The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Alumni Association honored Harpole with its Community Service Award in 2016.

Harpole and his wife, Mildred Carwin Harpole, have two children: Annette and John.

Reuben Harpole was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 21, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.059

Sex

Male

Interview Date

2/21/2017

Last Name

Harpole

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

K.

Schools

Roosevelt Middle School

Ninth Street Elementary School

North Division High School

Milwaukee Area Technical College

First Name

Reuben

Birth City, State, Country

Milwaukee

HM ID

HAR48

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Wisconsin

Favorite Vacation Destination

Virgin Islands

Favorite Quote

The Purpose For Education Is To Keep The World From Cheating You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Wisconsin

Birth Date

9/4/1934

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Milwaukee

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Barbeque

Short Description

Academic administrator and foundation executive Reuben Harpole (1934 - ) served at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee School of Continuing Education for thirty-one years as a senior outreach specialist at the University Center for Urban Community Development and as the program officer for the Helen Bader Foundation.

Employment

University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee

Helen Bader Foundation

Asentu Rites of Passage Institute, Inc.

Milwaukee Star

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:7583,99:7891,126:8584,146:22110,235:26240,304:26520,309:27150,319:31140,387:31698,397:35490,450:35850,457:38695,502:39083,507:40900,516:41338,526:46664,685:52620,772:62875,890:63250,896:64000,910:64300,915:66475,931:67300,944:70975,1025:72475,1048:83898,1207:106927,1652:123650,1805$0,0:16164,245:27915,338:28365,346:37515,571:38190,584:38940,599:39315,605:39990,615:46820,662:81884,896:82764,907:83380,915:84500,925:92255,1019:104644,1099:107164,1158:107668,1165:108172,1181:110860,1298:129349,1490:135875,1553:165596,1914:179173,2080:214369,2495:216933,2507:233686,2778:259722,3132:265920,3190:268734,3231:269490,3272:285410,3408:285750,3413:308200,3743
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Reuben Harpole's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Reuben Harpole lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Reuben Harpole describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Reuben Harpole describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Rueben Harpole recalls how his parent's met

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Rueben Harpole describes his parent's personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Rueben Harpole lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Rueben Harpole describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Rueben Harpole remembers his maternal grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Rueben Harpole describes his early neighborhood in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Reuben Harpole talks about racial discrimination in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Reuben Harpole talks about his childhood activities

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Reuben Harpole remembers his parent's divorce

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Reuben Harpole talks about author and scholar Increase Allen Lapham

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Reuben Harpole remembers the entertainment venues and black musicians in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Reuben Harpole talks about important figures in the black community in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Reuben Harpole remembers attending Mount Calvary Holy Church of America in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Reuben Harpole recalls the death of his maternal grandfather

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Reuben Harpole remembers attending North Division High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Reuben Harpole talks about working for Stark's General Cleaners in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Reuben Harpole recalls his experiences at North Division High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Reuben Harpole remembers being drafted into the U.S. Army and proposing to his wife

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Reuben Harpole remembers learning to play the saxophone while stationed in Korea

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Reuben Harpole talks about the Harpole family

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Reuben Harpole recalls meeting his wife while studying at Milwaukee Area Technical College in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Reuben Harpole remembers Milwaukee Mayor Frank P. Zeidler

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Reuben Harpole talks about his community initiatives in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Reuben Harpole describes the Central City Teacher Community Project

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Reuben Harpole remembers working at the Milwaukee Star and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Reuben Harpole shares his philosophy on community development

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Reuben Harpole remembers the civil disturbance in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Reuben Harpole talks about his mentorship of black college students

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Reuben Harpole talks about his activism for housing reform in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Reuben Harpole recalls helping Oprah Winfrey enroll at Nicolet High School in Glendale, Wisconsin

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Reuben Harpole talks about the summer prep program at Campion High School in Prairie Du Chien, Wisconsin

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Reuben Harpole describes the success of the students from the summer prep program at Campion High School

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Reuben Harpole talks about former Miss Black America Sonya Robinson

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Reuben Harpole recalls corruption in the U.S. Small Business Association

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Reuben Harpole talks about the minority business contracts and sports figures in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Reuben Harpole describes America's Black Holocaust Museum in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Reuben Harpole talks about the funding for America's Black Holocaust Museum in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Reuben Harpole remembers James Cameron's work at America's Black Holocaust Museum

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Reuben Harpole talks about his organizational memberships

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Reuben Harpole remembers Anthony Mensah and his Rites of Passage program

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Reuben Harpole talks about the impact of the Rites of Passage program

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Reuben Harpole recalls establishing the Reuben K. Harpole, Jr. Scholarship fund

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Reuben Harpole talks about the Milwaukee Public School's Homework First Program

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Reuben Harpole recalls the end of the Homework Comes First Program

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Reuben Harpole talks about his retirement and the Harambee neighborhood of Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Reuben Harpole describes his hopes and concerns with the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Reuben Harpole talks about his family

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Reuben Harpole reflects upon his life

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$4

DAStory

6$8

DATitle
Reuben Harpole describes the Central City Teacher Community Project
Reuben Harpole describes America's Black Holocaust Museum in Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Transcript
We ended up running a program called, Central City Teacher Community Project. We had been working with a lot of neighborhood folks and they were like, they, they knew the community and they could talk with the parents. So we decided that the teacher needed to know the community and we worked together with something called, CESA 19 [Cooperative Educational Service Agency]. This was different school districts, together with the Milwaukee public school district [Milwaukee Public Schools] and we'd talk with the School of Education at UWM [University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee School of Education, Milwaukee, Wisconsin] and got the professors involved with us and so we raised enough money to pay for the tuition of the teachers that are in the program so they could get some credits towards, so some of them could become teach- principals at some point. So, we ran that for about two or three years and the last year we had 235 teachers and administrators in the program and we brought some of the brightest brains in the education field in the country to Milwaukee [Wisconsin] 'cause we had enough money to take care of it and this is what we assigned the teachers to do. We wanted them to go into the neighborhood and get to know ten families, really get to know 'em and let the families get to know them and then they'd come back to, well we're operating out of Fulton Middle School [Robert Fulton Middle School, Milwaukee, Wisconsin], that's where they were shooting those BB guns, then discuss what was going--what happened as a result so they could learn the community--learn who they were work--they were teaching, you know, in the fall and that program, it ended up being terrific and the professors learned and the stud- and the teachers learned and as a result of that, things just happened.$All right, what--now you were involved, in the '80s [1980s], you got involved with the, the black holocaust museum with [HistoryMaker] James Cameron, right?$$Eighty-eight [1988], right.$$Yeah, well tell us about that.$$Well, the chairman of the board of America's Black Holocaust Museum [Milwaukee, Wisconsin] wasn't functioning and so I used to talk with Dr. Cameron constantly 'cause he was, he had his own business. He cleaned rugs and things like that, things, stuff, I used to do with Walter Stark [ph.] and--$$And wait a minute, before we get started on anything, just tell us what America's Black Holocaust Museum is and who is James Cameron.$$America's Black Holocaust is a museum called, bad fruit. It tells about the lynchings that took place in the South, mostly, of black folks who were slaves, had been brought over here from Africa to pick cotton in the South and Mr. Cameron was fifteen or sixteen years old when he was with two of his buddies and they caught themselves going to rob a couple that was making love and they held them up and then after Dr. Cameron saw that, he was a customer of his 'cause Cameron used to shine shoes in this little town in Marion, Indiana and this guy used to--was very nice to Mr. Cameron when he'd give 'em a tip for shining his shoes and he saw that was his friend, he told the guys that he was with, he said, "Man, I don't want any part of this, I'm going home." So he said he got halfway home and he could hear the gunfire. They had shot and killed this young man [Claude Deeter] but they didn't kill the girl [Mary Ball], they killed the young man and then a crowd gathered and started looking for him and see, he, he didn't tell his mother [Vera Carter Burden] and father what had happened, he just went and got into bed and then all of a sudden, there was a bang, doors were, somebody banged on the door, he got scared. It was the police and a group of people and they pulled him out. He said, "I didn't do anything, I didn't do anything." But they took him to jail. And then, they were about ready to kill him, they took the, his buddies out and they killed one before they got to, to the tree to hang 'em. It was about twenty-five thousand people had gathered 'cause they heard there was, be a lynching going on. So somebody in the audience screamed out, "Let that kid go, he didn't do anything." He said, he doesn't know who it was that, that called out. And so, he was working, he left, he went and served time in Anderson, Indiana and when they, he kept going up for parole and then finally they decided to give him parole and they sent him up to Detroit [Michigan] and he had, I think he worked for General Motors [General Motors Corporation; General Motors Company] for a while in Detroit. Then he came back to Milwaukee [Wisconsin], he said, he went over to, he had this, he had this firm where he was cleaning rugs and houses and so forth, just like I was doing with John--Stark General Cleaners [Stark's General Cleaners, Milwaukee, Wisconsin], and paid his wife's [Virginia Hamilton] way and his way to Africa, no, yeah, to, to Europe, to Africa and to Europe, and then he went over to, where he saw the Jewish museum [Yad Vashem, Jerusalem] where, in Israel, where, in terms of the Holocaust that had taken place when. So he told his wife, "Honey, we need to tell about the holocaust that took place among us." And so when he came back, that was his, his whole mission, was to tell the story that had not been told about the lynchings that took place in the South, of us. So, because two of his buddies had been killed. In fact, that's the most famous picture in the, in the world about lynchings and those were, Abe--Tom [Thomas Shipp] and Abe [Abram Smith].

Tamara Harris Robinson

Financial advisor and civic leader Tamara Harris Robinson was born on August 13, 1967 in St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands to Theresita Shelburn Harris and Earl Harris. Robinson graduated from the Philadelphia High School for Girls in 1984, and went on to earn her B.A. degree in economics, with a minor in Spanish, from the University of Pittsburgh in 1988. She then earned her M.B.A. degree from the University of Pittsburgh in 1989, and her M.S.W. and E.M.P.A. degrees from New York University in 2012.

From 1990 to 1994, Robinson worked as an associate at Prudential Financial in Newark, New Jersey and Scranton, Pennsylvania. Robinson then became an equity research analyst at Deutsche Bank in 1996. In 1997, she began working at Salomon, Inc. in Hong Kong. Robinson and her then-husband founded the North Jersey Advocates for Education and the Robinson Harris Foundation in 2004, working with the United Negro College Fund (UNCF) to provide scholarships for minority students. Robinson served as president of the North Jersey Advocates for Education from 2003 to 2009. In 2011, Robinson founded the Haramat Group, serving as chief executive officer. Then, in 2013, she founded Tamara Harris LLC, a divorce consultation firm. Robinson became an adjunct professor at New York University’s Silver School of Social Work in New York City in 2015.

Robinson was active in various organizations throughout her career as well. From 2008 to 2013, she served as vice chair of the United Negro College Fund board of directors, and as chair of the UNCF’s 2012 “A Mind Is…” Gala. Robinson also served as an adjunct professor of public child welfare at Montclair State University and as an adjunct instructor of management and organization practice at New York University Silver School of Social Work. She was a member of the National Association of Professional Women, the Studio Museum in Harlem’s Global Council, the Apollo Theater’s Women’s Committee, and the Davis Museum at Wellesley College’s Director’s Council. Robinson served on the board of trustees at Second Stage Theatre as well.

Robinson has two daughters, Paige Robinson and Simone Robinson.

Tamara Harris Robinson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 17, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.142

Sex

Female

Interview Date

12/17/2016

Last Name

Robinson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Leona

Schools

New York University Silver School of Social Work

New York University Wagner Graduate School of Public Service

University of Pittsburgh

Philadelphia High School for Girls

Thomas K. Finletter School

Wesleyan Academy

Moravian School VI

First Name

Tamara

Birth City, State, Country

St. Croix

HM ID

ROB30

Favorite Season

Summer

Favorite Vacation Destination

Miami

Favorite Quote

Don't Be Mainstream, Find Your Own Stream.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

8/13/1967

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

U.S. Virgin Islands

Favorite Food

Tuna Fish

Short Description

Financial advisor and civic leader Tamara Harris Robinson (1967 - ) worked at Prudential Financial, Deutsche Bank, and Salomon, Inc. She also founded the North Jersey Advocates for Education, the Robinson Harris Foundation, the Haramat Group, and Tamara Harris LLC.

Employment

Tamara Harris LLC

Haramat Group

New Jersey Advocates for Education

Citigroup Inc.

Prudential Financial Inc.

New York University

WTJX-TV

3M

Morgan, Grenfell and Co.

Favorite Color

Navy Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:635,15:1397,21:1905,26:4530,32:5083,40:5557,47:10534,295:11008,303:12983,348:13694,358:14484,370:14800,375:22301,439:25499,487:38460,679:39860,710:41540,733:42310,751:43080,766:48257,809:49111,833:49721,844:56517,943:58492,983:62352,1024:66096,1102:67176,1126:68544,1158:69192,1194:69840,1208:70704,1224:71136,1231:72504,1258:72936,1269:75240,1311:76968,1344:79632,1394:80712,1413:86628,1430:89124,1486:92720,1555:93140,1576:93490,1603:96500,1673:103670,1785:104125,1794:105490,1825:105750,1830:106205,1838:106660,1847:107310,1859:108480,1881:108870,1888:109325,1898:110690,1932:111080,1939:111340,1944:113550,2015:115695,2072:117840,2127:123105,2289:129400,2302:130578,2330:131136,2340:131818,2354:139636,2507:141440,2518:142910,2545:144800,2578:145500,2592:147740,2645:148930,2662:153270,2760:161170,2838:161926,2850:162262,2855:162682,2861:163018,2866:163354,2871:163942,2879:164362,2885:165790,2911:167134,3046:167806,3055:171670,3116:173350,3152:174274,3183:182066,3257:192266,3361:192638,3368:193258,3383:194684,3421:196172,3466:196544,3473:196792,3478:197040,3483:197536,3494:197908,3502:198466,3510:198714,3515:198962,3520:199396,3528:199644,3533:199892,3538:200326,3547:212780,3803:213052,3808:216085,3824:216701,3842:217163,3849:218934,3882:223015,4037:234740,4235:237060,4292:243798,4423:246002,4469:246610,4478:246990,4484:247902,4504:248510,4513:253500,4578:253744,4583:257720,4657$0,0:747,13:1494,24:3569,143:5561,191:6308,203:7636,218:8300,227:10292,270:11371,287:11952,295:17098,401:23862,442:34806,769:35310,778:35886,786:36462,795:37398,810:38694,828:39774,852:40062,858:45970,905:46250,910:47020,926:48630,947:49050,954:50170,984:51990,1023:52970,1041:58430,1178:58780,1184:59480,1195:60110,1207:60810,1226:69602,1310:69850,1315:70222,1327:72082,1373:72888,1387:73198,1393:73880,1406:74624,1421:77848,1487:78096,1492:78406,1498:78716,1504:80700,1550:81072,1557:81444,1564:82374,1584:82932,1594:89370,1675:89578,1680:89786,1685:89994,1691:90202,1696:90566,1705:92175,1720:93917,1756:94453,1765:95994,1808:96329,1814:99746,1882:100014,1887:102024,1933:103967,1971:110288,2092:111806,2135:112070,2140:114974,2214:116690,2248:117548,2264:117812,2269:118142,2275:121770,2287:122330,2296:122610,2301:122890,2306:125270,2359:125830,2369:127160,2393:134679,2502:135162,2517:135921,2534:137370,2562:138888,2585:140268,2610:140613,2616:140889,2621:150480,2718:152136,2790:152481,2797:153723,2890:154413,2947:155448,2967:156483,2987:160692,3093:162348,3232:162762,3239:163659,3254:163935,3259:167280,3264:170580,3315:170980,3320:178000,3431:179482,3452:180574,3476:181588,3496:182056,3504:187516,3629:187828,3634:188686,3691:193678,3815:193990,3820:195238,3853:197734,3900:198202,3909:200074,3955:207224,3969:207479,3975:207785,3982:209180,3991:209490,3997:210792,4030:211784,4055:212466,4072:212838,4079:213086,4084:217302,4224:217798,4230:221760,4258:222035,4264:222255,4269:223080,4290:224620,4339:225115,4349:225335,4354:225555,4359:230588,4452:231228,4464:231484,4469:232188,4492:232572,4500:233916,4530:234492,4544:234876,4551:235580,4566:236156,4577:236796,4590:237500,4607:238652,4627:239548,4656:240188,4668:241212,4690:244740,4695:246290,4728:248212,4775:250382,4834:251188,4850:251746,4862:255652,4968:256334,4986:261584,5022:262496,5044:264548,5084:265080,5093:265536,5100:268774,5143:270314,5165:270853,5173:275155,5235:275652,5244:280693,5340:284010,5390
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Tamara Harris Robinson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her father's upbringing in the U.S. Virgin Islands, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her father's upbringing in the U.S. Virgin Islands, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes the racial diversity in the U.S. Virgin Islands

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Tamara Harris Robinson recalls the importance of landownership in the U.S. Virgin Islands

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers her community on St. Thomas, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers her community on St. Thomas, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her parents' reasons for returning to the U.S. Virgin Islands

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers the cultural shifts in the U.S. Virgin Islands

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her elementary schooling in the U.S. Virgin Islands

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her early experiences of religion

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her perception of her light skin color

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her skin color privilege, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her skin color privilege, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers moving to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about moving to the United States

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her relationship with her father

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her experiences at the Philadelphia High School for Girls

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her decision to attend the University of Pittsburgh

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her mother's education and career

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her decision to study economics

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers her coursework at the University of Pittsburgh

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about the University of Pittsburgh Joseph M. Katz Graduate School of Business

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers her position at 3M in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her reasons for leaving 3M

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson recalls how she came to work for Prudential Financial Services

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her role at Prudential Financial Services

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers moving to Hong Kong as a newlywed

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers her interest in working internationally

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her reasons for moving back to New York City

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about working in a global environment

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her decision to move to New Jersey

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes the creation of the New Jersey Advocates for Education

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes the New Jersey Advocates for Education

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her experiences in Beijing, China, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her experiences in Beijing, China, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers joining the board of the United Negro College Fund

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about the challenges faced by historically black colleges

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers organizing galas for the United Negro College Fund

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about the lack of college preparatory classes in inner city public schools

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her experiences at the Silver School of Social Work at NYU

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson remembers founding the Haramat Group and Tamara Harris LLC

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes her role as a divorce coach, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her role as a divorce coach, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Tamara Harris Robinson describes the process and services of Tamara Harris LLC

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her plans for the future

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Tamara Harris Robinson talks about balancing her life and career

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Tamara Harris Robinson reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Tamara Harris Robinson reflects upon her life

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Tamara Harris Robinson shares her advice for future generations

DASession

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DATitle
Tamara Harris Robinson talks about her perception of her light skin color
Tamara Harris Robinson describes the creation of the New Jersey Advocates for Education
Transcript
I want to talk about skin color because that's always (laughter)--$$Let's talk about that (laughter). Okay. Let's talk about that.$$--a sensitive topic (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) All right, Harriette [HistoryMaker Harriette Cole].$$--in our communities, and, and you're--$$Okay.$$--coming from an island that you've just described all of the different peoples who have populated the island over time, and, you know, you yourself are very fair skinned. How--what are the skin color dynamics on St. Thomas [U.S. Virgin Islands], and how did you navigate that?$$Ooh, so that's, that's been--it's been a very--it's been a very interesting journey, and so I will start with the overarching mantra that I have which is race--I think growing up in the islands and my experience with skin color, I think by the time I was eleven, I, I distinctly remember this, eleven, twelve years old, internalizing that race is a social construct, and it has nothing to do with me, and the reason I said that is because--I would say twelve because it kind of solidified when I moved to the states, so I'm the lightest person in my family. My family, your complexion--my, my mother [Theresita Shelburn Harris], outside of my mother, who was always frustrated that she always passed for everything but black. I mean, she--always mistaken for Hispanic, Hawaiian, Italian, you know, everything, so she had her own issues and journey with race, but I remember growing up in my family being teased a lot for being this light skinned.$$By family members?$$By family members. My father [Earl Harris] used to call me his little white cheese, and his little--but, yeah, and so--or when I would--you know, if I was too pale, he would say, "We need to get you out in the sun and get you some color," so that was, that was what I experienced in the home with someone that was supposed to sort of accept you no matter what, but what I realized, that was his own issues with color and race and didn't--you know, is what it was. But he wasn't the only one. I would go home or if I'd be out and you'd see people. They'd say, "Oh, my god. Why you so light? You know, you don't get out in the sun." "What's wrong with you? Get your daughter out in the sun." So this was like this pervasive thing that I would hear, and I, I remember one summer actually getting sun poisoning because I was trying to get darker. I had to go to the doctor. I had to get this medicine 'cause my--I mean, I was just--I had ruined my, my gums were a mess, so as a young kid, remembering so--wanting so desperately to be black, like be dark and, and darker, you know, and, and loving it. Like not--so I grew up as a kid knowing that black is a thing of beauty, and I wanted--you know, and I, I was trying to do what I could about it, but it was what it was. So I moved to the states, and I'm now living in a town where it's very Jewish. Irish people go to the Catholic school, on the way to my school [Thomas K. Finletter Elementary School; Thomas K. Finletter School, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania], and I remember getting on the bus, and these two Irish boys on their way to school, got on the bus, saw me, and said, "Oh, my god, look at the little N girl." And I looked at them, and I said--I--I'm gonna--I said, I said, "Thank you." (Laughter) And I said, I said, "You think I'm black? Thank you so much." And the bus driver died laughing, died laughing, and they thought I was crazy. Those two guys looked at me, and they didn't even know what to do with me because what they thought they were doing in terms of hurling me an insult, I was like, finally, somebody recognizes I'm black. And I said that. "Finally, finally, somebody sees I'm black." And so they were, they were horrified because they didn't, they didn't know what to do with that. And then you fast forward, and so that's, you know, middle school, and then you get to high school [Philadelphia High School for Girls, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania], and then I have guys hitting on me 'cause I'm, I'm--then I'm hearing terms that I never heard in the Caribbean, you know, red bone, high, high yellow, you know, all the things that they say about--$$Right.$$--light skinned girls, and--$$They didn't say that there.$$I didn't hear those terms until I moved to the states. That's just not what we--you know, that's not a--$$Right.$$--terminology that we used down there. But what--so and then getting all this attention because I'm, I'm black. I mean, so there's no question about that, or I had been accepted into this tribe, but I'm, I'm on this other side of the spectrum that somehow makes me more attractive or more, you know, desirable or whatever.$And then you founded an organization [New Jersey Advocates for Education] shortly after that--$$Yeah (simultaneous).$$--(simultaneous) is that right?$$Yeah.$$What--tell me about that.$$So we came to New Jersey, and we actually went to--so we, you know, we set up in the suburbs, and I'm meeting people, and, you know, have got kids. My old- my oldest now is going still into elementary school, so I'm beginning to, you know, connect with the community, and my, my ex [Robinson's ex-husband] and I went to an event, actually, a UNCF [United Negro College Fund] event, that was being hosted down in Princeton [New Jersey] by some UNCF alum that had gone to historically--some of the, some of the UNCF HBCUs [historically black colleges and universities], and so it was a group of African American professionals; lawyers, bankers, people in the Princeton area, that decided to host this event. And I met the area director at the time, and one of the things that they did at the event is they had a guest speaker, and it was a young man who had grown up in Newark [New Jersey], and had gotten a ton of scholarships. You know, his mother kept him on the strong path and got him to a major university here in New Jersey, had gotten scholarships, a full ride, and he was going to study chemistry, science, and he had done well in his school environments, but once you got to this predominantly white institution, started to get depressed, you know, wasn't as smart as his peers. Professors, to your point about teachers and how sort of supportive they are, wasn't really finding he was in a community that was nurturing of his environment, and now he was out of his element, right, away from home, away from his mother, and it reflected in his grades. And he was becoming very depressed, and he was actually at the point where he was maybe in jeopardy of losing his scholarship, so he was very much in distress, very much struggling. So he said a cousin had invited him to come down and visit him for homecoming at Morehouse [Morehouse College, Atlanta, Georgia], and he said when he walked on that campus, he literally called his mother and said he's going to be transferring to Morehouse, and his mother was devastated because he was giving up his full ride. He had to work three jobs to, to graduate from that school, but he did it, and then he went onto get his degree in chemistry and worked in some of the--at one of the pharmas, but then actually left to go teach in the City of Newark. And he had won teacher of the year in math and science and actually twice, which was a new, a new experience. So he talked about what Morehouse had done for him and going to an HBCU and actually had received a UNCF scholarship, so that was the journey. And I have to say, I was so moved. And, actually, when I worked at Prudential [Prudential Financial Services; Prudential Financial, Inc.] when we had United Way [United Way of America; United Way Worldwide] drives, UNCF at the time was one of the recipients, so I gave money to UNCF, and, again, I went to a--you know, I had a--I went to--I lived on an island that had a car- HBCU [College of the Virgin Islands; University of the Virgin Islands, Charlotte Amalie, U.S. Virgin Islands], knew people from HBCUs, so very much involved and invested in that. So I went up to the area director and said, "You know, I'd love to support" (background noise)--$$Keep going, keep going.$$"I'd love to support UNCF," and I said, "You can, you can actually, you know, tell me what I can do, but I'm, I'm willing to--you know, how can I be of help?" And he said, "Well, if you want to host an event in your area, we'd love to have you do that." I said, "No, no. I have two kids [Paige Robinson and Simone Robinson], I just want to lick some stamps, and, you know, do some--you know, seal some envelopes. I don't have time for that. I've got like, young, young kids." So he said, he looked at me and my accent, and he said, "You know, we need young people like you doing things like this." He said, "You know, we've had a lot of folks in the New Jersey area that have lifted us up and carried us a long way, but they're onto, to new and different things in their phase of life, and, you know, what we're doing here in Princeton, we don't have anybody in the space that you live in, and we would love to replicate something like this there." So my ex and I went home, and we realized, you know, if we did this, this would be a commitment. This wasn't just, you know, write a check. If we were going to do something, we needed support, so we gathered a group of our friends from the kitchen cabinet and said, "Look, you know, we're thinking of having this event. We will underwrite it. We'll pay for the party, but if we do that, would each of you be willing to either fill a table or write a check that's the equivalent of a table?" And everyone in that room, Harriette [HistoryMaker Harriette Cole], had either gone to an HBCU, received UNCF money, had been a scholarship recipient, or they were very passionate about education for minority youth, and there wasn't a single person that didn't say yes. And we had our first event. It was a fashion show at our home. We had [HistoryMaker] B Michael, we had all kinds of people. It was, it was actually quite interesting what we pulled together, and we had about 220 people, and we raised $107,000 at our first event.

Allan Golston

Foundation executive Allan C. Golston was born in Denver, Colorado in 1967. His father was a mailman; his mother a nurse. Golston’s motivation early in life stemmed from his parents’ work ethic. Golston received his B.S. degree in accounting from the University of Colorado, and later his M.B.A. degree from Seattle University.

Upon graduation from the University of Colorado in 1989, Golston joined KPMG Peat Marwick as a senior auditor. In 1991, he moved to MIS, Inc., as director of business analysis and product development. Golston also taught as an adjunct professor at the Community College of Denver, and, in 1993, returned to his alma mater, joining the University of Colorado Hospital as its director of finance and controller. After four years at the University's hospital, Golston moved to Seattle, Washington, where he became director of finance for Swedish Health Services, the largest health provider in the Pacific Northwest.

In 2000, Golston was approached by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and joined the organization as its chief financial and administrative officer. He went on to serve as a member of the senior executive team for foundation strategy; and, for nine months in 2006, served as the interim executive director of the foundation’s Global Health division. In October of 2006, Golston was named president of the United States Program for the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Golston has sat on a number of boards, including Stryker Corporation, the University of Washington Medicine, Seattle University, Charter School Growth Fund, MOM Brands, Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI), New Futures, the Artist Trust, Make-A-Wish Foundation of Alaska and Washington, Philanthropy Northwest, and the Public Library of Science. He has served as a resource council member for both the Rainier Scholars program and the Robert Woods Johnson Commission to Build a Healthier America, on the advisory committee for the Northwest African American Museum in Seattle, and on the Resource Council for the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington, D.C. In addition, Golston was a member of the 2011 class of Henry Crown Fellows at the Aspen Institute and was named to Puget Sound Business Journal’s 40 Under 40 in 2003.

Allan Golston was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on October 3, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.242

Sex

Male

Interview Date

10/3/2014 |and| 11/24/2014

Last Name

Golston

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Charles

Schools

Stedman Elementary School

Washington Park Elementary

Montclair Elementary School

Kunsmiller Middle School

Place Middle School

George Washington High School

University of Colorado Boulder

Seattle University

First Name

Allan

Birth City, State, Country

Denver

HM ID

GOL03

State

Colorado

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Washington

Birth Date

1/7/1967

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Seattle

Country

United States

Short Description

Foundation executive Allan Golston (1967 - ) was president of the United States Program for the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Employment

Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

Swedish Health System

University of Colorado Hospital

MIS, Inc.

KPMG

Community College of Denver

Handy Lindsey, Jr.

Foundation Executive Handy Lindsey, Jr. was born on March 24, 1952 in Louisville, Mississippi to Pearlie, a homemaker, and Handy Lindsey, Sr., a farm laborer. When he was six years old, his family moved from Louisville to St. Louis, Missouri where he attended first Dunbar and later Howard Elementary before graduating from St. Louis University High School in 1971. Lindsey earned his BA, AM and MBA. degrees from the University of Chicago in 1975 and 1980, respectively. After graduation, Lindsey served as assistant director for Chicago Community Trust. He also served as interim executive director for the East St. Louis Community Foundation in East St, Louis, Illinois. In 1988, Lindsey was appointed executive director of The Field Foundation of Illinois. He became the chief executive officer of the Field Foundation in 1997. The Cameron Foundation in Petersburg, Virginia recruited Lindsey to serve as its president and chief executive officer in 2004.

In 2003, the Chicago African Americans in Philanthropy (CAAIP) established an award honoring Lindsey for his leadership and dedication in advancing racial and ethnic diversity and inclusiveness in the field of philanthropy. In 2003, Lindsey was awarded the 12th Annual James A. Joseph Lecturer on Philanthropy from the Association of Black Foundation Executives.
He is currently the Vice Chairman of Grantmakers for Effective Organizations (GEO) and has served as a board member for the Southeastern Council of Foundations and board chairman for the Donors Forum of Chicago. Lindsey was also vice chairman for the Association of Black Foundation Executives. Lindsey has over thirty years of experience in philanthropy, having served as principal architect and manager for three separate foundations. He has been featured in Ebony Magazine as a leader in his field. Lindsey completed his doctoral coursework at the University of Chicago’s School of Social Services Administration in 2000. He is married to Kristin R. Lindsey and has two adult sons, Josef and Marshall.

Handy Lindsey, Jr. was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 10, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.020

Sex

Male

Interview Date

2/10/2012

Last Name

Lindsey

Maker Category
Middle Name

L.

Schools

University of Chicago

Paul Laurence Dunbar Elementary School

Curtis Elementary School

St. Louis University High School

University of Chicago Booth School of Business

University of Chicago School of Social Service Administration

First Name

Handy

Birth City, State, Country

Leflore County

HM ID

LIN01

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

Tuscany, Italy

Favorite Quote

Every Great Leader Was First A Good Follower.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Michigan

Birth Date

3/24/1952

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Flint

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken

Short Description

Foundation executive Handy Lindsey, Jr. (1952 - ) was one of the leading African American luminaries in the field of philanthropy, serving as an executive of The Chicago Community Trust, the Field Foundation of Illinois and the Cameron Foundation.

Employment

Cameron Foundation

Field Foundation

CHICAGO COMMUNITY TRUST

United Way International

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Handy Lindsey, Jr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his parents' separation

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about the origin of his name

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his father's reasons for fleeing Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers his relationship with his parents

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his maternal family's migration to St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers the Hillside neighborhood of St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers Paul Laurence Dunbar Elementary School in St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his early interest in reading

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers visiting museums in St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his sisters' early educational experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers the influence of his teachers, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers the influence of his teachers, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his academic experiences at St. Louis University High School in St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his decision to leave his mother's home

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers his social experiences at St. Louis University High School

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls the start of his career in community service

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his early experiences of religion

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls founding the Black Assistance Union in St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers the assassination of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his early aspirations

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls graduating from St. Louis University High School in St. Louis, Missouri

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his experiences at the University of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls his undergraduate mentors at the University of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers John Hope Franklin and Edgar Epps

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the relationship between the Woodlawn community and the University of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls working as a child counselor at La Rabida Children's Hospital in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers his decision to pursue degrees in social work and business

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about the recruitment of black graduate students at the University of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls his graduate mentors at the University of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers his peers during his graduate program

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls the early years of his marriage

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about completing his graduate degrees at the University of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls his start at The Chicago Community Trust

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers joining the Association of Black Foundation Executives

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his role as a loaned executive at the Associated Black Charities

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his success with the East St. Louis Community Fund

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls becoming assistant director of The Chicago Community Trust

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the history of black foundation executives in Chicago, Illinois, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the history of black foundation executives in Chicago, Illinois, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about the representation of African Americans among foundation executives

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about the structure of philanthropic foundations

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his role at The Field Foundation of Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about relationship between foundations and community organizations

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the community outreach at the Field Foundation of Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the criteria used to evaluate grant applications

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls the technical assistance offered by philanthropic foundations

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the highlights of his career at the Field Foundation of Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers the schools founded with grants from the Field Foundation of Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. recalls his transition to the Cameron Foundation

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers the Algebra Project

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the community of Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about the Cameron Foundation's needs assessment process

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about the differences between Chicago, Illinois and Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. reflects upon his life

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. talks about his plans for the future

Tape: 6 Story: 11 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes his family

Tape: 6 Story: 12 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Handy Lindsey, Jr. narrates his photographs

DASession

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Handy Lindsey, Jr. remembers his peers during his graduate program
Handy Lindsey, Jr. describes the highlights of his career at the Field Foundation of Illinois
Transcript
What about fellow students? Are there any, any of your fellow students that stand out, I mean, that you remember particularly from those--$$Well--$$--days?$$That's a hard one, Larry [Larry Crowe], because it's almost everybody (laughter). I mean, we had, we had a shared experience, you know. Basically, you know, getting through, getting through the University of Chicago [Chicago, Illinois] for the typical, the typical African American student given what was typical of our level of preparation compared to what the typical--the preparation that was had by the typical white student, it was probably the most difficult challenge we were ever going to face, is getting through that school. And I don't care whether you're talking about the college or the graduate, you know, departments or professional schools, it was probably the most challenging thing you would ever do. And we all shared that experience. And at the undergraduate level, a lot of us didn't make it. I mean, a lot of us, you know, spent, you know, six years there in undergraduate school and still walked away without the degree. You know, we were never really there in significant numbers. As I look back to my class of '75 [1975], in my incoming freshman class, there were like forty-six of us, and we were one of the largest classes ever. So forty-six African American students out of a class of 2400, you know. So, but we, you know, many of us are still in contact with each other today. You know, some of us have been, you know, become more distinguished (laughter) than others, have achieved more than others. I mean, for instance, someone I remember from school is, you know, is [HistoryMaker] Brent Staples. You know, and Brent Staples, is, you know, editor for, was it, New York Times [The New York Times]? I mean, he's written a couple of books, 'Parallel Time' ['Parallel Time: Growing up in Black and White,' Brent Staples] was a book that he wrote. I understand he has a new book out very recently. You know, but, you know, Brent and I, we hung out (laughter). But, you know, lots of people have come out and have become, you know, prominent. Lots of people have certainly done very well in business. But I can remember, you know, hearing stories about, you know, legendary people who were there who preceded me there, like the sister who ran the General Mills Foundation, [HistoryMaker] Reatha Clark King.$$Right.$$You know, Reatha Clark King got her Ph.D. at the University of Chicago in the '50s [1950s]. My god, what a phenomenal accomplishment that must have been. I mean, I mean, basically, she probably had to create, you know, lightning in a bottle to get a Ph.D. in (laughter), in physics at the University of Chicago at that period of time. I'm sure she had to be the only one, you know.$$And you know, just a, just an aside here, but she had a similar background as you. You know, her parents [Ola Mae Watts Clark and Willie B. Clark] were sharecroppers and--$$Yep.$$Yeah.$$Exactly.$Sir, what are some of the highlights of your tenure with Field Foundation [Field Foundation of Illinois, Chicago, Illinois]?$$With the Field Foundation, there were, there were a couple of things. I think one of the things I'm most proud of there is the work that the Field Foundation did with Chica- Chicago Public Schools. You know, we decided to take the individual school as the unit of analysis, in trying to help with, you know, school improvement. So rather than, you know, set aside, you know, a pool of dollars that we would convey to central administration, we took the other route, and we decided to approach the individual school principals and to invite them to, you know, design projects and programs that would really help them improve education with an emphasis on things like pa- parental involvement in the school or teacher professional development or curriculum design and innovation. And, so the individual schools themselves could come up with these programs, submit them to us, and then we would fund them. And we did that over a number of years, and we did it when no other foundation in the city was willing to work with schools one on one. Everybody else was trying to assist school reform through these, you know, big thirty thousand, you know, foot efforts, you know, of, you know, of top down, working with central administration just like that. And we said, "Okay, fine. You all got that covered. We prefer to work on the ground." And, so we worked with many individual public schools all over the city over a number of years and in creating programs of the schools' own designs, of the principals' own design. And because of that, the principals were really committed to it. They owned it and were invested in the success of it.$$Now did you get resistance from the--$$We got resistance. We got resistance--$$--from the Chicago (unclear) (simultaneous)--$$--(simultaneous) on an ongoing basis from central administration, but we did it anyway. We did it anyway until just a few years ago. I think they had to stop it because central administration decided, basically, to take a bogart, you know, approach to it. And, so I understand that [HistoryMaker] Aurie Pennick and her staff at the Field Foundation have now backed off of that because central administration is just making it so difficult to have that relationship with the individual schools.$$Yeah. Well, those grants represent power to--unfortunately, in a, in a tug of war sometimes.$$Exactly. And so, I'm very, I'm very proud of that. I think, the other thing that I'm very proud of is, you know, the Field Foundation, although it's a small private foundation, it wasn't afraid to work on big issues, you know. So we did a lot of work around housing and homelessness. And we convened a number of policy summits around this issue, particularly public housing but not just public housing but homelessness in general. And, so here was a, here was a case where a little foundation was able to get a brighter spotlight focus on a very big issue. I mean, we had small dollars to bring to it, but it was--we figured it was worthwhile and certainly an accomplishment to have gotten more attention focused on it and getting some of the p- more of the right people at the table to talk about these issues.

Cleo F. Wilson

Nonprofit administrator and foundation executive Cleo Wilson was born in 1943, and spent her early years in the Chicago housing project of Altgeld Gardens. After spending two years at Robert Crane High School, Wilson graduated from the Frances Parker High School in 1961. Later that year, Wilson enrolled at Chicago State Teacher’s College, now Chicago State University. In her sophomore year, however, she left school to protest school segregation in Chicago’s Englewood community and later, the Vietnam War. After leaving the activist movement to support her children, Wilson worked as a keypunch operator until deciding to return to school in 1973. She received her B.A. degree in English from Chicago State in 1976.

In 1976, Wilson was hired as an accounting clerk for Playboy. She eventually worked her way up to supervisor of Accounts Payable. In 1982, she joined the Playboy Foundation, the philanthropic arm of Hugh Hefner’s empire. After just two years, she was appointed Executive Director of the foundation. As its head, she included employees in the process, asking for their opinion on grant decisions. Wilson also engaged the Foundation in the process of “microphilantrophy,”—giving smaller amounts of money to more organizations—including many grassroots efforts in Chicago. Wilson also continued to fight for civil liberties and racial equality, filing a lawsuit against the City of Chicago and State of Illinois to ensure fair voting protection for Chicago’s African American residents and serving as vice president of the Illinois Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. She was also an early HIV/AIDS activist, beginning in the 1980s, when HIV/AIDS was still very poorly comprehended and stigmatized by the general public. She was appointed to the Chicago AIDS Foundation’s Board of Directors in 1989, and starting in the next year served as president of that organization for three years.

In 2002, Wilson became president of The Center for Intuitive and Outsider Art, a Chicago nonprofit organization dedicated to highlighting self-taught and outsider art, and in 2007, she became executive director of the center. She left Playboy after 25 years of service in 2005, but has continued to tour on the lecture circuit and is a board member or advisor for many civic organizations.

Cleo Wilson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 25, 2010.

Accession Number

A2010.100

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/25/2010

Last Name

Wilson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

F.

Schools

Richard T. Crane Medical Preparatory High School

Parker High School

Chicago State University

University of Illinois at Chicago

First Name

Cleo

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

WIL55

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Europe

Favorite Quote

God Damn It!

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

5/7/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Coconut Cake

Short Description

Nonprofit administrator and foundation executive Cleo F. Wilson (1943 - ) served with the Playboy Foundation for twenty-five years, and was advocate of civil rights, HIV/AIDS awareness and the arts.

Employment

Playboy Inc.

Playboy Foundation

Center of Intuitive and Outsider Art (Intuit)

Favorite Color

Light Green

DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Cleo F. Wilson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Cleo F. Wilson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers her maternal grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about her mother's move to Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about her father's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Cleo F. Wilson describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers her father's career

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Cleo F. Wilson lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers George Washington Carver Primary School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the tension between her parents

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers her foster mother

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her relationship with her parents while in foster care

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her schooling in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Cleo F. Wilson describes her early interests

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers her foster home

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the jazz band at Parker High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers joining the protests against the Willis Wagons in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about the struggle for school desegregation in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Cleo F. Wilson recalls living in the Student Peace Union's commune at the University of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers meeting her first husband

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers her associations with radical organizations

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Cleo F. Wilson recalls her criticism of nonviolent philosophy

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the surveillance of her home by the Chicago Police Department's Red Squad

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Cleo F. Wilson recalls the assassinations of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers her first divorce

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Cleo F. Wilson recalls meeting her second husband

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers studying at the University of Illinois at Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Cleo F. Wilson recalls working as an accountant for Playboy Enterprises, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the workplace environment at Playboy Enterprises, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the history of the Playboy Foundation

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Cleo F. Wilson recalls her start at the Playboy Foundation

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the grantees of the Playboy Foundation

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Cleo F. Wilson remembers Harold Washington's mayoral campaign in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the Playboy Foundation's support for the arts

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about micro philanthropy

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Cleo F. Wilson describes the Will Feed Community Organization in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about granting process at charitable foundations

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about her organizational activities

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Cleo F. Wilson reflects upon her career at Playboy Enterprises, Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Cleo F. Wilson reflects upon her success at Playboy Enterprises, Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Cleo F. Wilson describes Intuit: The Center for Intuitive and Outsider Art in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about her interest in outsider art

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Cleo F. Wilson reflects upon her life

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Cleo F. Wilson talks about her family

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Cleo F. Wilson describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Cleo F. Wilson narrates her photographs

Amina J. Dickerson

Arts administrator and foundation executive, Amina J. Dickerson was born Jill L. Dickerson on February 2, 1954 in Washington, D.C. to Ann Lee Stewart Dickerson and Julius James Dickerson. While in high school, Dickerson wrote a ritual play entitled, The Journey, which bore witness to cultural and personal transformation. Attending Emerson College in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1972, Dickerson produced her play "The Journey" and then took it on tour. Her theatrical activities brought her back to Washington where she was hired as an administrator by Arena Stage.

After completing the Harvard Program in arts administration in 1974, she joined the National Museum of African Art where she became director of education through 1982. There, she staged public programs including a tribute to Langston Hughes which featured musical group, Sweet Honey in the Rock, jazz and a script by Dr. Eleanor Traylor. Dickerson served as assistant director of Philadelphia’s Afro-American Historical and Cultural Museum in 1983. In 1984, she became the new president of Chicago’s venerable DuSable Museum of African American History and Culture. While serving at DuSable, Dickerson served as a consultant with the Schomburg Center for Black Research while earning her M.A. degree in arts administration from the American University in 1988. Joining the staff of the Chicago Historical Society in 1989, Dickerson brought in the “I Dream a World” exhibit and established the Sojourner Truth Mentoring Program for young women. In 1994, she became director of education and public programs for the museum. After a fellowship with Newberry Library and a stint as “distinguished visitor” at the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, Dickerson served as coordinator of the Arts in Education program of the Kraft Foods Company in 1997. There, she was promoted to director of corporate giving, and in 2003 she became senior director of Global Community Involvement. Now, on the other side of the philanthropy table, Dickerson funded valuable initiatives in health, hunger, education and the arts.

Retiring in 2009, Dickerson continues to serve the community through her activities on the boards of the Harris Center for Music and Dance at Millennium Park, co-chair of the Peer Network for International Giving of the Donor’s Forum and vice chair of the International Committee of the Council of Foundations. Dickerson was honored as Chicago Professional Grantor of the Year in 2002, Chicagoan of the Year in 2004 and she received the Legacy Award from the ETA Creative Arts Foundation and the Annual Sor Juana Award from the Mexican Fine Arts Center. The Jazz Institute honored her with the Tim Black Award for Community Service in 2006. Dickerson has presented on various arts and community issues and serves as a consultant to various arts, cultural and philanthropic organizations including the National Endowment for the Arts.

Dickerson lives in Chicago with her husband Julian Roberts.

Dickerson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 17, 2009.

Accession Number

A2009.148

Sex

Female

Interview Date

12/17/2009

Last Name

Dickerson

Maker Category
Middle Name

J.

Schools

John Burroughs Elementary School

St. Anthony Catholic School

Academy of Notre Dame

Emerson College

Institute in Arts Administration at Harvard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Amina

Birth City, State, Country

Washington

HM ID

DIC05

Favorite Season

Fall

State

District of Columbia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Brazil

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

2/21/1954

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Playwright and foundation executive Amina J. Dickerson (1954 - ) was the director of global community involvement for the Kraft Foods Company until 2009. Dickerson also served in executive capacities with Chicago’s DuSable Museum of African American History and the Chicago Historical Society.

Employment

Living Stage Theatre Company

Museum of African Art

Philadelphia’s Afro American Historical and Cultural Museum

DuSable Museum of African American History

Chicago Historical Society

Kraft Foods Group, Inc.,

Favorite Color

Yellow

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Amina J. Dickerson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about her mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about her father's education and career

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Amina J. Dickerson describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers her neighborhood in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Amina J. Dickerson describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her early exposure to the arts

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson lists her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her start at the Workshops for Careers in the Arts

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her performances with the Workshops for Careers in the Arts

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about her schooling

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers her trip to Italy

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her high school aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls writing and producing 'The Journey: A Black Ritual Experience'

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls the prevalence of discrimination in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about the African American community in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Amina J. Dickerson describes the rituals in her play, 'The Journey'

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about the spiritual component of her play, 'The Journey'

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about her experiences of discrimination in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers restaging 'The Journey: A Black Ritual Experience'

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls producing 'The Journey' in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her transition to the field of arts administration

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls the members of the Living Stage Theatre Company

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her experiences at the Arena Stage in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers the Institute in Arts Administration at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her work at the Museum of African Art in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson describes the programs at the Museum of African Art in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers moving to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her challenges at the Afro American Historical and Cultural Museum in Philadelphia

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her dismissal from the Afro American Historical and Cultural Museum in Philadelphia

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers seeking a position at the DuSable Museum of African American History in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls joining the staff of the DuSable Museum of African American History in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about her presidency of the DuSable Museum of African American History

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson reflects upon her achievements at the DuSable Museum of African American History

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about the challenges faced by African American museums, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about the challenges faced by African American museums, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Amina J. Dickerson reflects upon her conflicts with Margaret Burroughs

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Amina J. Dickerson reflects upon her tenure at the DuSable Museum of African American History

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her transition to the Chicago Historical Society

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Amina J. Dickerson describes the programs of the Chicago Historical Society

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers meeting her husband

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson talks about her fellowships

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson remembers joining the Kraft Foods Group, Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her role at the Kraft Foods Group, Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson recalls her retirement from the Kraft Foods Group, Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Amina J. Dickerson reflects upon her life

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Amina J. Dickerson describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Amina J. Dickerson reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Amina J. Dickerson reflects upon her family

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Amina J. Dickerson shares her motto

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Amina J. Dickerson describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Amina J. Dickerson narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$3

DAStory

1$2

DATitle
Amina J. Dickerson recalls her early exposure to the arts
Amina J. Dickerson talks about the spiritual component of her play, 'The Journey'
Transcript
What were you like growing up? What were you interested in in and what kind of information did you come in contact with that shaped, you know?$$Well the arts were always a part of our life. We spent a lot of time especially in muggy hot humid Washington, D.C. The only place you could find air conditioning was very often with museums that are free. So we spent a lot of time in the Smithsonian museums [Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.] and Ann and Dick [Dickerson's parents, Ann Stewart Dickerson and Julius Dickerson] made a priority for us to have the exposure to dance and to music and to theater. So we did Shakespeare [William Shakespeare] in the park that was free down near the Washington Monument [Washington, D.C.] we went and sat on the steps of the Ellipsis [sic. The Ellipse, Washington, D.C.] and hear musical concerts. We got hauled over to the Marine barracks to hear the Marine bands which as you can tell not one of my favorites. We always saw 'Nutcracker' ['The Nutcracker,' Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky]. They just really were culture freaks and we got it from a very early age. We had a wonderful, a wonderful amphitheater the Carter Barron Amphitheatre [Washington, D.C.] off of 16th Street. It was kind of like Ravinia [Ravinia Park] is in Chicago [sic. Highland Park, Illinois]. But they would get season tickets again don't know how they managed season tickets for a family of eight and we got to see all the musicals of the day. We saw 'Guys and Dolls,' we saw 'West Side Story' [Arthur Laurents], we saw 'My Fair Lady' [Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe], we saw 'Camelot' [Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe], we saw 'Carousel' [Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein II]. You know, we'd get to see New York City Ballet. I'll never forget one day we waited back stage for [HistoryMaker] Arthur Mitchell to come out and everybody had gone and so we had Arthur Mitchell cornered and got to take him back to his hotel, you know, and talk with him about his career and we chatted him up all the way. I'm sure he was very happy to get out of that station wagon. But it was, it was a kind of defining experience to have the arts always validated and always around us. So we were avid readers. We all read all the time. We did a lot of camping as a family 'cause once again you've got six kids and a limited budget. They paid for us to go to Catholic school so that was a priority and for us to get away we camped around the country. So we'd camped up to Canada for the World's Fair there, we camped out to Wyoming, we'd camp up into Upstate New York and see friends. Again really wonderful eye opening experiences helping us feel that we could be connected to the world that it was ours. There was no barrier for that. We'd talk--my mother would also really talk about the racism and the history. I remember going to Monticello [Charlottesville, Virginia] and her taking us around to the back of Monticello and pointing at those bricks and saying, "You see those bricks? Those bricks were built by slaves so don't ever think that you don't have a part of this legacy. You built this legacy." She would always point that out to us throughout that time. So I started really doing little neighborhood theater things at an early age. You know, my first breakout performance on television was actually on one of the kid's TV shows where they invited you to come up, you know, and who can do something. I'll never forget this was something that akin to 'Captain Kangaroo' or one of those afternoon shows and I put my hand up and they said. "Well come up. What can you do," and I said, "I can whistle." They said, "Okay, well whistle," and nothing came out and I'll never live that down. My brothers [Jan Dickerson, Jaffe Dickerson, Jason Dickerson and Julian Dickerson] were in the audience and they started howling with laughter. So of course the whole family heard that, but--$$How old were you then?$$Oh I think I was five or six years old something like that.$We're talking about ritual theater in, in your play 'The Journey' ['The Journey: A Black Ritual Experience,' Amina J. Dickerson]--$$Yes.$$--what you were trying to accomplish.$$Yes.$$You had to ride herd or try and control the energy on some level of the actors (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yeah the energy of the room. You know, again, as, as someone who did not have that ritual experience in the church and not out of an affluent African experience. It was at once quite exhilarating and scared me to death but you recognized it as the director you are responsible for these souls that are now in your hands. You know, I guess it was one of the first times that I understood how things work through you. Sometimes you don't have to really understand everything but if it works through you and you just have faith in it, it sort of helped me know what to do how to bring people back down to the state of normalcy of calm. It did get me a reputation as something of a sorceress or something. But they were just magical performances and I think that was part of the power of, of that show.$$I didn't ask this, well I shouldn't, but I'm going to ask this anyway. Did it make, does it make you reflect basically upon what happens with spirituality with people in general? I mean, like when people do that in the church they can do it in Yoruba or they can do it (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yes, and it's so funny, 'cause--$$--but that's a core of whatever the spirituality is.$$It's about a connection and it's about an openness. You have to be open for something for you to receive that, for you to touch those places in yourself. It was so funny because just that makes me reflect on attending candomble services in Brazil and then coming back to a black Baptist church on the West Side [Chicago, Illinois] for the christening of some cousin's children and a woman got the spirit. The way that people move in circles and the way that they react when, when, you know, divine horseman when your head gets taken, when the spirit enters. You really see that that really is of a piece there's not that separation by geography, by religion, by cultural tradition. Ultimately it is about possession in this most glorious way. And so that's what was happening in this production, you know. I had read about it and certainly I knew about it from my exposure to the black theater experience and [HistoryMaker] Barbara Ann Teer and all of that but then it's in your rehearsal room, okay, or it's on your stage. And the idea that every time you did that ritual this might happen out there with an audience and how do you help people move through that to come back to script. So it was, it was an exhilarating time. It really, really was.

Stacey Stewart

Chief executive and philanthropist Stacey Davis Stewart was born on March 1, 1964 in Atlanta, Georgia. Inspired by her parents Myrtle Reid Davis and Albert Miles Davis, who were both committed to public service, Stewart developed an interest in community outreach from a young age. Stewart received her B.A. degree in economics from Georgetown University in 1985, and later received her M.B.A degree from the University of Michigan.

In 1987, Stewart became a senior associate with Merrill Lynch in New York, and worked there until 1990. Stewart worked in the public finance division, assisting state and local governments in structuring more than $2 billion in funding for housing and infrastructure projects. In 1990, Stewart became vice president for the investment banking firm Pryor, McClendon, Counts & Company.

In 1992, Stewart became the public affairs director for the Housing and Community development department for Fannie Mae Foundation in Atlanta. In this role, Stewart was responsible for implementing low and moderate income homebuyer programs. In 1995, Stewart became vice president of the department before becoming the President and Chief Executive Officer for the Fannie Mae Foundation in 1999.

In 2003, under Stewart’s leadership, Fannie Mae became the largest private foundation in the country dedicated to affordable housing and community development. Stewart managed all aspects of the Foundation’s operations including financial investments, strategic management, financial operations, technology, human resources, research and legal matters.

In 2007, the Fannie Mae Foundation announced that the company would consolidate its philanthropic initiatives into the Office of Community and Charitable Giving, which Stewart heads as the senior vice president.

Stewart is the recipient of numerous awards including a 2004 Women of Distinction award from the American Association of University Women and honorary doctorate degrees from Morgan State University and Trinity College.

Stewart was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on July 31, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.221

Sex

Female

Interview Date

7/31/2007

Last Name

Stewart

Maker Category
Middle Name

Davis

Schools

St. Paul of the Cross Catholic School

Margaret Mitchell Elementary School

The Westminster Schools

Georgetown University

Stephen M. Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan

First Name

Stacey

Birth City, State, Country

Atlanta

HM ID

STE11

Favorite Season

Christmas

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Kiawah Island, South Carolina

Favorite Quote

That's Cool.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

3/1/1964

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Popcorn

Short Description

Foundation executive Stacey Stewart (1964 - ) was senior vice president of the Fannie Mae Foundation's Office of Community and Charitable Giving, and later became the foundation's president and CEO.

Employment

Merrill Lynch

Pryor, McClendon, Counts and Company

Fannie Mae Foundation

Fannie Mae

Favorite Color

Gray

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Stacey Stewart's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart recalls her father's activism

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart describes her father's medical practice

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart describes her paternal grandparents, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart describes her paternal grandparents, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart recalls her father's childhood and upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Stacey Stewart describes how her parents met and their courtship

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Stacey Stewart talks about her mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Stacey Stewart describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart remembers Annie Lou Hendricks

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart remembers her paternal grandmother

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart describes her relationship with her father

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart recalls the Collier Heights neighborhood in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart remembers her mother's civic engagement, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart remembers her mother's civic engagement, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart recalls an early experience of racial discrimination, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Stacey Stewart recalls an early experience of racial discrimination, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart talks about racial discrimination among children

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart remembers her early education

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart recalls the Civil Rights Movement in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart remembers The Westminster Schools in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart describes her early personality

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart recalls her mother's involvement with women's organizations

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart remembers her extracurricular activities

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart talks about her scoliosis

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Stacey Stewart recalls her social activities during high school

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Stacey Stewart talks about her religious experiences

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Stacey Stewart remembers her sister's car accident, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart remembers her sister's car accident, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart recalls her decision to attend Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart talks about the aftermath of her sister's accident

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart talks about her sister

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart describes her experiences at Georgetown University

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart recalls studying economics at Georgetown University

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart describes her decision to attend business school

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart remembers developing an interest in public finance

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart recalls joining Merrill Lynch and Co., Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart recalls her position at Pryor, McClendon, Counts and Co., Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart remembers her colleagues in the public finance industry

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart recalls her bond deals at Merrill Lynch and Co., Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart recalls her challenges in the finance industry

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart describes her experiences at Pryor, McClendon, Counts and Co., Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart talks about the discrimination and corruption in the public finance industry

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart describes the firm of Pryor, McClendon, Counts and Co., Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Stacey Stewart describes minority owned investment banking firms

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Stacey Stewart talks about bond deals

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart describes the history of the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart recalls implementing a home ownership outreach campaign

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart recalls the criticism of the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart talks about the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart talks about the racial gap in home ownership

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart remembers heading the Fannie Mae Foundation

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart describes the programs of the Fannie Mae Foundation

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart talks about Franklin D. Raines

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Stacey Stewart recalls the charges against executives of the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart talks about restrictions on the public finance industry

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart recalls the decision to close the Fannie Mae Foundation, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart recalls the decision to close the Fannie Mae Foundation, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart recalls serving as chief diversity officer at the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart talks about Daniel H. Mudd

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Stacey Stewart describes her hopes for the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Stacey Stewart reflects upon her career

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Stacey Stewart talks about her husband

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Stacey Stewart reflects upon her life

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Stacey Stewart talks about the obstacles to home ownership

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Stacey Stewart talks about the displacement of public housing residents

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Stacey Stewart describes the HOPE VI development program

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Stacey Stewart reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Stacey Stewart lists her favorites

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Stacey Stewart narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$7

DAStory

5$4

DATitle
Stacey Stewart recalls the Collier Heights neighborhood in Atlanta, Georgia
Stacey Stewart recalls serving as chief diversity officer at the Federal National Mortgage Association
Transcript
The neighborhood I grew up in is called Collier Heights [Atlanta, Georgia] and it was considered almost it was considered a subdivision back then, back then. And it actually has a different, the technically has a different name the subdivision does, and I just can't remember the name of it right now. But the, the neighbors call Collier Heights and it's in northwest Atlanta [Georgia], just north of southwest Atlanta which, which is where a lot of black middle class at Atlantans grew up. And, but it was unique in that Collier Heights, when a lot of the black professionals that had lived a lot around the Atlanta University Centers [Atlanta University Center; Atlanta University Center Consortium, Atlanta, Georgia], Simpson Road, Ashby Street [Joseph E. Lowery Boulevard], that whole area, Fair Street all of that. When a lot of them moved out from that part of Atlanta they moved west and this particular neighborhood was one that where the land was acquired by all blacks. Black contractors, builders, built all the homes. And all the homes were owned by black, black people. So it had a very strong history in having been developed and built, constructed and owned by black people. Unlike southwest Atlanta which had been primarily white and when white flight occurred in Atlanta, a lot of those white families moved out of the city and blacks moved into those homes. Our neighborhood had, had always been built and owned by black people. So you had a very strong history of pride in that neighborhood. And you know we lived around the corner a few houses away from [HistoryMaker] Herman Russell, who, a very prominent and good friend of my family's and, and across the street from [HistoryMaker] Dr. Harvey Smith who was a dentist, across the street from Dr. William Shropshire [William Bruce Shropshire] who was a dentist, down the street from the Miltons, Mr. Milton [ph.] had been a banker in Atlanta. And we just had a, have had a, had a very prominent set of families who lived in that community. In fact, one of the stories that has come out or at least I've heard is that Coretta King [Coretta Scott King] wanted to move in that neighborhood. And they lived on Sunset Avenue in Atlanta. And I think it was Martin [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.] who said, who didn't wanna move in that, into that neighborhood and wanted to stay sort of in the neighborhood they were in. But it was, I think a real up and coming neighborhood for a lot of black prominent families, you know, in the late '50s [1950s] early '60s [1960s]. By the time I, I think my family moved into their home in about 1962 or so. And so that was just a year or two before I was born. And so, so I, my upbringing was always around black people that I, I never knew a time when I didn't see or wasn't surrounded with black people that were prominent or successful, or doing well. I didn't, not that I wasn't exposed to others, you know, I, you had a wide range of, of people I was exposed to, but in terms of who, who, I was mostly surrounded with, it was primarily black people that were always doing well. And so I never had a thought in my mind that black people didn't have the ability to do well and be successful. That was never something that entered my mind. In fact, when I go to cities where I don't see that strong black middle class, it's, it's hard, it's harder for me, you know, (laughter). I don't even, I can't fathom that. And I struggle it, with my own children [Madeleine Stewart and Savannah Stewart] in that I want them to always have that constant exposure as well. But, but so I always feel like I was, I grew, I was able to grow up in this very, very fortunate set of surroundings. I mean we, we were not rich, by any stretch of the imagination but we lived a very comfortable, I had a very comfortable way of living. And, and my sister [HistoryMaker Stephanie Davis] and I talk about this all the time. And we, I felt, we, we always knew we were blessed, you know. We always felt we were blessed. And, and felt very fortunate to have been able to be in the family that we were in and have the kind of exposure we had so.$(Simultaneous) So how's it gonna change what you do and the diversity, what--did, did, did you displace someone who was (unclear) (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) No, I didn't, no. When I came, well how on the giving how it's gonna change is really a lot is staying the same, particularly through this transition year. And our main focus areas of housing homelessness in D.C. [Washington, D.C.] remain. I think what's gonna change is sort of how we do it. I mean now we're much more integrated with the business units around how are they working with certain partners, lender partners, and other partners to create effective solutions to financing housing. And how does grant making support that? Some of the partners that we work with are nonprofit partners so we, they may need some grant support along with loan and equity financing tools to be able to do the business. So it's a much more comprehensive approach to working with our partners than we've ever had before. Which, which is really a great thing. And I think that's making us a more impactful partner. Just create more, more housing. On the diversity thing it was completely on a different tract. I mean I came back to the company, the company had sort of identified that it had really lost its focus with respect to diversity. Here Fannie Mae [Federal National Mortgage Association] was one of the models of corporate diversity for years and through this restatement period, you know, it was very hard to focus on just about anything else other than getting accounting right, getting the systems right, getting the operations back on track, you know, it was just so many things needed to be fixed in the company that I think people just lost sight of other big priorities like diversity. And so when I came back to the company it was all Dan Mudd [Daniel H. Mudd] was becoming aware of the fact that, wait a minute we're, we're not where we really need to be on our diversity stuff. We need to reenergize this and get this back on track. And the head of diversity was on leave at the time. And so there wasn't really anybody to lead the effort and I sort of raised my hand and said, "I'll do it." And it was because, not because I had this long steep background in diversity, it was because I care about it and thought I could help. And, and so and so Dan said, "Give it a shot." So I'm now the chief diversity officer and kind of running with developing a new strategy for us in terms of diversity and bringing diversity and giving and the business altogether. So creating a lot more alignments. The diversity isn't just off on its own as some feel good thing, it's really sort of a part of everything else that we do. From recruitment hiring, retention of employees, to the culture, how we behave, and work within the company.$$(Cough) Excuse me.$$It's okay.$$Can you--oh, sorry.$$Through to the: how we do business? And how we take advantage of the market opportunities so as I mentioned before. So, so this is all, it's a--so I feel like I've got sort of two jobs but I think we're also in a way redefining what--now that giving is really now a part of the company again and we have this focus on diversity we're really defining a whole new way that Fannie Mae expresses its values around the corporate social responsibility in a variety of ways. And I sort of see myself as being over that. I also think that the company is wanting to redefine what its mission is. You know, it had a way of thinking about it when Jim was, Jim Johnson [James A. Johnson] was the chair and it had its way of thinking about it when Frank [Franklin D. Raines] was chair. I think now the company is saying in, in turn to fulfill our mission, our public mission what, what are the ways in which we wanna go about doing that? And I sort of feel like my experience and my background the company is now putting me in a position where I can help define that for the company. So it's really, it's really kind of fun (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) So, so it's an exciting time for you then?$$Oh yeah, oh, no it's great. It's great.$$And you'll be able to pull, pull on your business background too in it--$$Absolutely, absolutely.$$--in a more integrated way.$$Yeah. Yeah. I'm not an HR [human resources] type so I don't, the people piece I'm like, "Can you help me on that," 'cause (laughter) I'm not a HR executive and so diversity has a big piece of that. But I am a businessperson in, in a way. And have been a CEO of an organization [Fannie Mae Foundation] so understand people and culture and, and from that perspective. And so it really is a lot of fun.