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Charles R. Jordan

Charles Ray Jordan was born on September 1, 1937 in Longview, Texas. His mother raised Jordan along with his sister and brother working as a domestic in rural Texas. He never knew his father. At the age of thirteen his mother moved the family to Palm Springs, California where they lived on an Indian Reservation.

Jordan earned his high school diploma from Palm Springs High School in 1956. As a high school basketball star he was offered numerous athletic scholarships. From 1956 until 1961 he attended Gonzaga University in Washington where he earned his Bachelor of Science degrees in Education, Sociology and Philosophy. He did graduate work in Education at Loma Linda University and in Public Administration at the University of Southern California.

Upon graduation from Gonzaga, Jordan was unable to obtain a job in his field of study. He was forced to work as a gardener for California actors Lawrence Harvey and Jack Lambert. From 1961 until 1970 Jordan worked for the City of Palm Springs. After being hired as the first African American Recreation Leader for the city, he went on to become Assistant Director of Recreation and Assistant to the City Manager. From 1962 until 1964 he took a leave of absence to fulfill a two-year tour of duty in the United States Army. In 1970 Jordan moved to Portland, Oregon to work on the federal Model Cities Program. Jordan then went on to become Portland’s first elected African American. He served on the city council from 1974 until 1984, where he served as City Fire, Police and Parks Commissioner. From 1984 until 1989 Jordan was appointed Parks Director of Austin, Texas. In 1989 he returned to Portland to oversee its Parks system, a post he held until 2003. Jordan stepped down to take the helm at the Conservation Fund, a non-profit environmental organization.

In 1985 Jordan was appointed to the President’s Commission on Americans Outdoors by former President, Ronald Reagan. During the Clinton administration, Jordan was appointed to the American Heritage Rivers Advisory Committee. He was known worldwide for his commitment and leadership in involving African Americans in the conservation movement.

Jordan passed away on April 4, 2014, at the age of 77.

Accession Number

A2004.167

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/20/2004

Last Name

Jordan

Maker Category
Middle Name

R.

Schools

Palm Springs High School

Gonzaga University

First Name

Charles

Birth City, State, Country

Longview

HM ID

JOR03

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Palm Springs, California

Favorite Quote

You're Kidding.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

9/1/1937

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Southern Food

Death Date

4/4/2014

Short Description

City parks administrator and foundation chief executive Charles R. Jordan (1937 - 2014 ) was the first African American elected to an office in Portland, Oregon as a member of the city council. He also served as City Fire, Police and Parks Commissioner.

Employment

City of Palm Springs

United States Army

Federal Model Cities Program

Portland City Council

City of Austin, Texas

Portland Parks and Recreation

Conservation Fund

Favorite Color

Brown

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Charles R. Jordan's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Charles R. Jordan lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Charles R. Jordan describes his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Charles R. Jordan describes his father

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Charles R. Jordan talks about father figures from his childhood in Longview, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Charles R. Jordan describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Charles R. Jordan describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Charles R. Jordan describes his childhood holidays and celebrations in Longview, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Charles R. Jordan describes his childhood home of Longview, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Charles R. Jordan describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Charles R. Jordan talks about his experiences in elementary school in Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Charles R. Jordan narrates his photographs

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Charles R. Jordan talks about living on a Native American reservation in Palm Springs, California

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Charles R. Jordan talks about his family community in Palm Springs, California

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Charles R. Jordan describes his experiences growing up in the Baptist faith

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Charles R. Jordan describes his experiences at Palm Springs High School in Palm Springs, California

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Charles R. Jordan describes his experiences at Gonzaga University in Spokane, Washington, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Charles R. Jordan describes his experiences at Gonzaga University in Spokane, Washington, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Charles R. Jordan describes the events that led him into parks and recreation work in Palm Springs, California

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Charles R. Jordan narrates his photographs, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Charles R. Jordan describes his career in city government in Palm Springs, California

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Charles R. Jordan describes being hired to work for the City of Portland, Oregon

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Charles R. Jordan talks about his tenure on the Portland City Council

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Charles R. Jordan talks about his tenure as the parks director in Austin, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Charles R. Jordan describes working with Claudia "Lady Bird" Johnson in Austin, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Charles R. Jordan talks about his tenure as parks director in Portland, Oregon

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Charles R. Jordan reflects on his decision to leave the public sector

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Charles R. Jordan narrates his photographs, pt. 3

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Charles R. Jordan describes the operations of The Conservation Fund

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Charles R. Jordan talks about his experiences on the President's Commission on American Outdoors in 1984

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Charles R. Jordan describes his experience serving as chairman of The Conservation Fund

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Charles R. Jordan describes his hopes for conservation efforts in the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Charles R. Jordan describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Charles R. Jordan reflects on the reasons for his success

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Charles R. Jordan offers advice to those interested in a career in the environmental field

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Charles R. Jordan describes his plans for the future

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Charles R. Jordan describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Charles R. Jordan describes why he believes history is important

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Charles R. Jordan reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Charles R. Jordan narrates his photographs, pt. 4

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$4

DAStory

1$2

DATitle
Charles R. Jordan talks about living on a Native American reservation in Palm Springs, California
Charles R. Jordan talks about his experiences on the President's Commission on American Outdoors in 1984
Transcript
[HistoryMaker] Mr. [Charles R.] Jordan we had--we were just talking about when your family moved to [Palm Springs] California in 1950, so tell us a little bit about what life was like on the Indian reservation?$$Well, there was no grass, of course, and most of us had centralized facilities, in the middle of the reservation at certain places there were showers and bathrooms and washing areas that we would go to and I mean just all sand. Cars rolled on sand, I mean there was no roads there were pathways that cars had created over the years but there was no pavement at all. And we all lived on the reservation surrounded by desert, just as far as the eye could see mountains and desert. And it was--we used to make bow and arrows and we would go hunting in the desert with bow and arrow--(simultaneous)--$$So did the Native American children there teach you how to make the bows and arrows and--(simultaneous)--$$Oh yeah, and we would all go out in the desert, 110, 115 degrees and we would go hunt and walking in the desert, hunting, and they would have Indian burials that lasted three to five days. I mean the same way, I mean, three to five days. The chief, Chief Ward, he lived a couple of doors from us and it was a--but we could go to movies, and movies were integrated, the schools were integrated. But Louis Armstrong came to town, he had to stay on the reservation, and yet he performed downtown. It was sorta strange; it was half and half there. But it was rich, wouldn't have changed it for anything. And then I started school, middle school.$$What was the name of the school?$$[Nellie N.] Coffman Middle School [Cathedral City, California], the first year of that, two-year school and from there to high school. But I started playing basketball on the reservation, I started--there was a Boys Club [Boys & Girls Clubs of America] in the middle of the desert that I would go to and the gentleman's name was Frank [ph.], I'll never forget him as long as I live. I don't know whether he was properly trained to be a Boys Club director or not, that wasn't important. And that's--and so now, when I became a director I realized the importance of caring, the kids don't care how much you know they just wanna know how much you care. And that's why I'll always remember him. I knew he really cared about us; there was no doubt in my mind. And we had a basketball court paved, it was pavement and oh, and we used to go out there at night and play five and six hours and that's all we had. But I remember Frank was so kind and never forget him. And we'd play basketball at night and during the daytime we would sit under mesquite trees, play dominoes, my parents [M.C. Shepard and Willie Mae Glaspie] would and I would be shooting baskets every day of my life, every day. I didn't miss a day during that four or five years--$I was appointed by President [Ronald Wilson] Reagan in 1984 to serve on a presidential commission. It was the President's Commission on American Outdoors [sic. President's Commission on Americans Outdoors]. He appointed seventeen Americans to travel around this country for a year and a half and talk to Americans about the great outdoors and what they wanted to do in the great outdoors for the next thirty-five years and on that commission he had one black and one woman. And I was that black. And we traveled around the country. On that committee was Pat Noonan, I didn't know who Pat Noonan was, but he--but of course Reagan had his real shakers and movers, you know the big ones, [Sheldon] Coleman [Jr.], the Coleman Company who has all of the camping gear, Gil Grosvenor [Gilbert Melville Grosvenor] of 'National Geographic,' he had the heavyweights on there, I was the lightest one on there (laughter). And--but during that--(simultaneous)--$$Say you.$$--time as we traveled around every region of the country--talking to Americans, thousands of them about the great outdoors and what they like to do in the great outdoors and what they wanted to do. We were gathering information; we had studies, hundreds of studies from people at hearings, people were coming out, sharing their dreams and hopes with us about the great outdoors. And there weren't very many people of color, so that was stressful for me because I knew that we cared about the outdoors but we were not coming out expressing it and so I was trying to be objective and listen but I was also trying to speak on behalf and that's--that was hard to do and so I struggled with that. And we finally came up with the report and when the report was finished, Pat Noonan, whom I hadn't--I just knew him I didn't know him very well, came up to me and said, "You know," he said, "I saw your struggle and I heard your story and I want to help you tell that story." And said, "I want you to come and serve on my board." That was, what, that was eighteen years ago and I didn't know anything about conservation. But, "Come and serve on my board." So I looked into it and I did and that guy, he got it then, I mean he really, you know, I didn't tell him, he just noticed, and he has opened doors. You talking about someone who can open doors, that I never would have been able to even darken, and he just started opening doors for me and putting me out there and making sure people heard my story because I tell it from a black perspective and not, you can see not angrily, I'm not angry--so, you know, that's why it resonates because I'm not angry with anyone. I just tell it from someone who has seen and has grown up in America in a black skin. And so there are times when I saw a different America, it's not the one you're explaining to me, that's not what I saw, but let me tell you what America I saw. And therefore what's important to me, and so I can do that without offending people because I'm not angry. And so I've had a chance to do that all around the country and he just opened doors, I mean just incredibly so and ever since I've been on his board he has done that.

Lillie Mae Wesley

Building a better community in her adopted hometown of Long Beach, California, occupied Lillie Mae Wesley nearly all her life. Born in Texarkana, Texas, on June 11, 1921, Wesley spent her childhood in Texas. In 1942, she married Ovid Wesley, who served in the Army during World War II. As her husband prepared to leave the service in 1944, Wesley moved to Long Beach, where her sister lived. Wesley took the opportunity afforded by her husband's return to pursue an education. She began at Long Beach City College and later attended Pacific College before completing her studies at Long Beach State University, where she received a B.A. in recreation and human services.

Both professionally and personally, Wesley worked to help people, especially the less fortunate, in Long Beach. Her first job in California was with the Salvation Army, where she worked for eleven years managing distribution of used clothing and furniture to thrift stores around the area. In the 1950s, Wesley took a position with the City of Long Beach, working in the Department of Recreation. She served in several capacities, including outreach to senior citizens, before retiring in 1980 as supervisor of the Park District.

Outside of her career, Wesley actively and selflessly served her community through her church, St. Mark Baptist Church. With the help of her church and fellow parishioners, Wesley established the first storehouse for the elderly in Long Beach. She also helped elderly, illiterate blacks complete application forms and other paperwork to receive entitlement benefits.

Though she never sought special recognition for her outreach, Wesley received several citations and commendations for her service. She received the Employee of the Year Award from the city of Long Beach in 1980, was recognized by Los Angeles County on Older Americans Recognition Day in 1996, was awarded a certificate from the Family Life Foundation for her service to Long Beach families, and was congratulated by Congress for her life's work and service. In 1992, Wesley became the first black grand marshal in the history of the Long Beach Inaugural Parade.

Wesley and her husband were married fifty-nine years. They have one daughter and one granddaughter. Wesley passed away on May 21, 2010.

Accession Number

A2002.206

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/20/2002

Last Name

Wesley

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widow

Middle Name

Mae

Schools

Dunbar Intermediate Center

California State University, Long Beach

First Name

Lillie

Birth City, State, Country

Texarkana

HM ID

WES02

Favorite Season

None

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

Nothing But The Truth.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

6/11/1921

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Los Angeles

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Death Date

5/21/2010

Short Description

City parks administrator and community activist Lillie Mae Wesley (1921 - 2010 ) worked and served her community in Long Beach, California, through the park district and St. Mark Baptist Church.

Employment

Long Beach Department of Recreation

Favorite Color

Blue, White, Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:7032,105:7912,118:29880,449:44525,602:45141,615:45988,657:48837,768:81512,1124:92627,1247:108130,1594:115143,1748:163064,2366:167330,2431:187103,2686:190337,2863:199634,3159:213985,3388:226748,3625:251680,3832$0,0:3870,128:6474,181:9822,251:10380,258:11682,274:12147,280:20229,438:40370,803:66750,1083:69558,1144:69948,1150:104005,1599:104509,1610:105391,1624:108037,1680:109423,1714:110053,1733:111124,1754:115740,1817:116124,1824:117084,1845:123164,2007:123484,2027:134060,2166:146198,2407:146543,2413:156222,2557:157686,2590:159333,2630:161895,2791:171314,2908:171566,3012:171944,3040:200710,3382:206650,3497:209980,3555:210790,3565:211240,3572:216250,3600:226750,3781
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Lillie Mae Wesley's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Lillie Mae Wesley lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes her family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes her parents' physical features and personalities

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about being disciplined as a child

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about her parent's educational backgrounds and her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about her father's dairy farm

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes her interests and activities as a youth

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about learning how to play the piano

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes how she learned to sew

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes why her parents enrolled her at Dunbar Elementary School in Texarkana, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about the library at Dunbar High School in Texarkana, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes the rivalry between Dunbar High School in Texarkana, Texas and Booker T. Washington High School in Texarkana, Arkansas

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about the teachers who influenced her

Tape: 1 Story: 16 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about her love of sewing as a teenager

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about why she avoided dating in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about working on her family's farm after high school

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about her father's prominence as a farmer in Texarkana, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes race relations in Texarkana, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about her father's Caucasian heritage

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about a Caucasian family friend who helped her father and protected her family in Texarkana, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about attending Bishop College Extension School in Texarkana, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes courting and marrying her husband, Ovid Wesley

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about moving to California with her husband

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes how she and her husband earned their college degrees

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes her husband's role in her retirement, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes her husband's role in her retirement, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes her involvement with the Long Beach branch of the NAACP

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes how she balanced her civic involvement with being a wife

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Lillie Mae Wesley shares her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about the importance of treating others well

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Lillie Mae Wesley describes the respect she had for her husband

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Lillie Mae Wesley shares a story about a childhood friend attempting to court her in old age, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Lillie Mae Wesley shares a story about a childhood friend attempting to court her in old age, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Lillie Mae Wesley talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Lillie Mae Wesley narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$3

DAStory

6$1

DATitle
Lillie Mae Wesley talks about a Caucasian family friend who helped her father and protected her family in Texarkana, Texas
Lillie Mae Wesley describes her involvement with the Long Beach branch of the NAACP
Transcript
But, the old man who was real good to my father [James Butler] was a Caucasian, and his name was Levert, last name. George, that was his name because he named my brother after him, my dad did, and he was always nice to my dad as far as we knew because we used to go over to their house occasionally and we called her, you know, the wife of Mr. George Levert. Well that's what we called her Ms. Levert and she told us one day, she said to you she said my name is not Ms. Levert. Well we didn't know what to say. We didn't know what to call her. And so she said you call me mama Laura and you call George, papa George and that's what you do, and that's what we did 'til they died.$$That's good, that's unusual.$$But, then he was always helping my father with some things. I remember one time it was really funny though we had gone over to her house on a Saturday. They had some fruit trees in the yard, and we were to clean this yard. So, when we got finished with the yard, papa George said, now this is the man I've just told you about, I want you to go up there on the hill to Will Atkins' store and give him this note and he would put the stuff in a bag and bring it back to you. Well we did. We went up there and in this store was a great big old iron stove, you know, for heat and several of them were sitting all around the stove talking and smoking and spitting tobacco and everything else, I guess. So, one of the guys said to the other one he says oh he says you better go over there, he says and go tend to them little niggers he said. There's George's niggers over there looking for something. Now this was the man sitting over there by the heater. So, we went on back, we got the stuff and I told my two brothers. I said George (George was named after this man we called papa George), I said you and Louis (ph.), I said you go right on I said I'll come on back behind you guys with the stuff. So, we got our bags and we went on down there. Well when we got almost to his house he had come out looking for us because we had stayed so long, and so he said, well how come you guys didn't come sooner, and I said well they didn't give it to us any sooner. And he said well what do you mean? I said well they were sitting around the heating smoking and going on and I said so we had to wait I said until we could get the stuff. He said to George and Lee, and that was my brother, said you go on and take that to Laura. He said you come on and go back with me. We went back up to that store and that was the first time that I had ever seen that kind of behavior before that he cursed that old man out at the store who owned the store and he says those are my kids. That's the way he pu, put it. He said if they come up here after anything else, he says, and you don't protect them and get what, give them what they need and come back down there, he says I'm gonna come up here, he said, and I'm gonna blow this D store up. That was the words that he used. He said now, he pulled it--the first time in my life I had ever seen a gun and he pulled that gun out the back of his pocket and he said now you apologize to 'em. The guy said well George I didn't mean--(unclear)--he said I said apologize to 'em, and he did and he went on back out there and we got in his old car and went on back to his house. And I had never seen or heard of that before. So, we told our father about it, and my dad [James Butler] said to him he said well he said, you know, he said I don't believe you ought to send them up there anymore. He said whatever you need, he said, I'll just come and get it for you. He said no they going back and they gonna treat 'em just like they're human beings, and we never had no more trouble out of 'em.$$Well that's an interesting story.$$Well, it's no lie. It is no lie.$$Yes ma'am.$--Raised money for the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] and what, what were some of the local issues the NAACP was dealing with and those things?$$Well, they had a lot of problems. First we had the problems with the police discrimination, being mean and evil to black people when they arrested 'em. Maybe they weren't guilty, maybe they were, that's left for the courts to decide not for the police to decide and slap up on 'em and that sort of thing, worked on stuff like that. And my husband [Ovid Wesley] worked with one group--I don't really know what all of 'em did I tell you the truth. My problem was not a problem, but my aim was to raise money because you know you cannot hire lawyers without some money. I don't care what you belong to. You got to have some money to defend yourself and, so McBride could tell you--McBride and--(unclear)--and that bunch. What was that other man name, he died?$$Watkins--(unclear)--$$Watkins and wait a minute there's another one. Oh God he was a preacher. Anderson, Percy Anderson.$$Okay.$$Yeah, those people they can tell you more about the discriminatory cases that we were fighting, you know. And they fought diligently in the early part of my membership at--for the NAACP to get a dishwasher hired at Kress's, a dishwasher. I remember her name was Inez (ph.) Finney (ph.), and Inez was such a good person until they kept her until she died. She passed away, you know, of old age. She worked there many years. She retired from Kress's, but there were a lot of things. We weren't so concerned, the group that I was working with, about what this--are you gonna take this nickel and buy some cheese or are you gonna take this penny and buy some chewing gum, as long as we knew we were gonna fight discrimination with it and that's what we were working hard for is to get this money together to give to the branch. It all went to the branch, and we made accurate accounts as to how many ticket we sold, to whom we sold, and our books were always in order because I don't know maybe it's ignorance or whatever you wanna call it, I don't care what you call it, but I'm ticky about pennies. If I--if you give me a penny for this, I'm not gonna spend it for nothing but that. And if you want it spent for anything else I'll give it back to you and say here you go spend it yourself I'm not gonna do that. I'm ticky about certain things, but we did raise money and, you know, it went to the NAACP because we made accurate account of the tickets that we sold and how much to the tickets were and how much money we cleared, you know, and it went to the treasury for the NAACP and of course they had to be monies raised so that the officers those that were gonna go to the National Convention and stuff like that they had go to regular meetings and I guess whatever they did with it we didn't care since it was used for that purpose, for the purpose of fighting discrimination and trying to get a little bit of freedom. We didn't worry about that. I think it was eight years I held that position.$$You were the chair of the Women's Auxiliary or something of the NAACP? What was the official name of it?$$It was the Women's Auxiliary.$$Of the NAACP?$$Yeah.$$Okay.$$A bunch old hens like me. You remember that don't miss?$$(OFF-CAMERA FEMALE VOICE): When I first came here.$$Yeah, we worked like convicts.$$That's pretty hard.$$Well we did. We worked hard.$$Well in the old days. Convicts now they don't work as hard.$$I don't know, but they used to, but it was something that I enjoyed and after I retired that gave me something to do see because there were other little things that I was involved in that, you know, gave me some things to do. And my husband was always very supportive.