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George A. Russell, Jr.

Bank executive George A. Russell, Jr. was born on May 31, 1949 in Boston, Massachusetts to George and Marie Russell. He received his B.A. degree in social science and mathematics in 1972 from Clark University, in Worchester, Massachusetts, and his M.B.A. degree with a concentration in finance and economics in 1974 from New York University’s Leonard N. Stern School of Business.

Russell started his career as a credit analyst/commercial loan officer trainee at State Street Bank and Trust Company, in Boston, and quickly advanced through the ranks to vice president, from 1974 to 1984. Russell served as treasurer and chief financial officer from 1984 to 1988 for the City of Boston in the administration of Mayor Ray Flynn. Russell served as president and CEO at Freedom National Bank in New York City from 1988 to 1991 and then rejoined State Street Boston Corporation as senior vice president, and was later promoted to executive vice president where he served from 1991 to 2013. He also served as director of corporate citizenship, and chairman and president of the State Street Foundation. In this dual role, he directed State Street’s global corporate contribution and employee volunteer programs. In addition, he was responsible for managing the company’s community relations functions globally. Under his leadership, State Street provided support for a variety of community-based organizations including the Metropolitan Boston Housing Partnership and the Boston Private Industry Council.

Russell received the Alumni Achievement Award from New York University Leonard Stern Graduate School of Management in 1989. He was elected chairman of the board for the Urban League of Eastern Massachusetts, from 1999 to 2005, and served as board member for One United Bank, from 2004 to 2012. Russell received an honorary doctor of law degree from the University of Massachusetts in 2010, and an honorary degree from the Urban College in 2014.

He was past founding chairman of the board of the Financial Services Academy. Russell also served on the board of advisors of the African Presidential Archives and Research Center at Boston University, and as a trustee of the Massachusetts Math and Science Initiative. He serves on the board of directors of One United Bank, the largest Black owned and operated bank in the United States, and as a member of the board of trustees of Tufts Health Plan Foundation.

George and his Wife Faye have one child, Martin Russell, daughter-in-law Ashley and granddaughter, Maya.

George A. Russell, Jr. was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 20, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.161

Sex

Male

Interview Date

8/20/2018

Last Name

Russell

Maker Category
Middle Name

A.

Occupation
Organizations
First Name

George

Birth City, State, Country

Boston

HM ID

RUS12

Favorite Season

Spring, Fall

State

Massachusetts

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

If You Don't Stand For Something, You'll Go For Anything.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Birth Date

5/31/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Boston

Country

United States of America

Favorite Food

Shrimp

Short Description

Bank executive George A. Russell, Jr. (1949- ) served at State Street Boston Corporation as director of community affairs, and was named chairman and president in philanthropy, retiring in 2013.

Favorite Color

Blue

Nathan Cox

Bank executive Nathan Cox was born on November 8, 1964, in Los Angeles, California to Aurelia Cox and Nathan Cox, Jr. Cox graduated from St. Monica High School in Santa Monica, California in 1982. He received his B.A. degree in business administration with an emphasis in marketing from Loyola Marymount University in 1986, and went on to earn his M.B.A. degree in corporate finance from Golden Gate University in 1996.

Cox began his career at as a sales representative with E & J Gallo Wine Company in 1986. He was eventually promoted to manager before moving to Sacramento in 1989, and joining Wells Fargo as a business banker. In 1996, Cox became the senior vice president and manager of commercial banking for the Sacramento and San Francisco Bay Area division of the Bank of The West. In 2001, he was hired as a branch manager for WestAmerica Bank. From 2005 to 2007, Cox returned to Wells Fargo to work as a vice president, private client advisor, and regional private banking manager. While there, he completed the Wells Fargo Bank credit management training program. In 2012, Cox was hired as the senior vice president and regional manager of the business and commercial banking division of Rabobank, N.A. in Sacramento, a position he held until 2014, when he was appointed senior vice president and market manager of the commercial banking division at U.S. Bank. In this role, he led the annual U.S. Bank United Way fundraising campaign for the Sacramento market from 2014. Cox also served as a senior adjunct lecturer at the graduate school level, teaching a course that included finance, investments, management and marketing.

From 2008, Cox became a member of Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity. He served as an advisory board member of the Sacramento chapter of College Track, and on the board of directors of Next Move, Inc. a subsidiary of Goodwill Industries. Cox also served as board vice chair of Goodwill Sacramento Valley and Northern Nevada. Cox was named “Father of the Year” by the American Diabetes Association in 2016. He also served as a financial literacy mentor for several organizations, including Improve Your Tomorrow, Junior Achievement, Elk Grove Unified School District, and The Links, Inc. Sacramento chapter.

Nathan Cox was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 4, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.063

Sex

Male

Interview Date

4/4/2018

Last Name

Cox

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Nathan

Birth City, State, Country

Los Angeles

HM ID

COX02

Favorite Season

Fall

State

California

Favorite Vacation Destination

Anywhere with a Beach and Golf Course

Favorite Quote

Spend More Time Looking Toward Your Future Than Your Past.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

11/8/1964

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Sacramento

Favorite Food

Healthy soul food, Cajun food

Short Description

Bank executive Nathan Cox (1964 - ) worked in the banking industry for over thirty years, and served as a senior vice president and market manager of commercial banking at U.S. Bank.

Favorite Color

Royal blue and taupe

Charles O. Stewart

Bank executive Charles O. Stewart was born on February 27, 1949 in Sweet Home, Arkansas to Ola Stewart and Frank Stewart. He graduated from Horace Mann High School in Little Rock, Arkansas and received his B.A. degree in sociology and political science from the University of Arkansas, Little Rock in Little Rock, Arkansas, his graduate certificate in business from Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in 1979, and his certificate in lending from Arkansas State University in Jonesboro, Arkansas.

Stewart worked in accounting for the Teletype Corporation from 1968 to 1971 before being hired at First Commercial Bank as a financial officer. In 1981, he was promoted to senior vice president. In 1997, he left First Commercial Bank and joined Regions Financial Corporation as senior vice president and corporate director of community development and served there for ten years. In 2007, he was promoted to executive vice president of Regions Bank and then he became interim chief executive officer of Heifer International in 2009. In 2014, he founded Stewart Real Estate Development and served as its chief executive officer.

Stewart was a founding board member of Little Rock Preparatory Academy and also served on the board of Heifer International as chair and vice chair as well as on the boards of the Federal Small Business Advisory Council, the Arkansas Interest on Lawyers Trust Accounts (IOLTA) Foundation, Arkansas Repertory Theater, Philander Smith College, the Health Policy Board of the Arkansas Center for Health Improvement, and the Arkansas State Police Commission. He was also an advisory board member of the National Institutes of Health of Washington, D.C, and on the boards for the National Conference for Community and Justice (NCCJ), the Governor's Blue Ribbon Committee on Higher Education. He also served as the founder and chair of the Arkansas Black Hall of Fame.

Stewart has earned many honors including the NAACP Black Corporate Executive Award, The Empowerment Award from the African Women’s Health Project International, the Mrs. David Terry Humanitarian Award, the Outstanding Young Executive Award from the Greater Little Rock Chamber of Commerce, the President’s Award from the University of Arkansas, Little Rock, the National Conference for Community and Justice Humanitarian Award, and in 2006, the executive conference room at Heifer International was named in his honor.

Charles O. Stewart was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 18, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.171

Sex

Male

Interview Date

09/18/2017

Last Name

Stewart

Maker Category
Middle Name

O.

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Booker T. Washington Elementary School

Dunbar Magnet Middle School

Horace Mann High School

University of Arkansas at Little Rock

Louisiana State University

Arkansas State University

First Name

Charles

Birth City, State, Country

Sweet Home

HM ID

STE21

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Arkansas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Places near water

Favorite Quote

Trust in the Lord with all thy heart...

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Arkansas

Birth Date

2/27/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Little Rock

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Soul food

Short Description

Bank executive Charles O. Stewart (1949 - ) founded the Arkansas Black Hall of Fame and served as executive vice president of Regions Bank.

Employment

Stewart Real Estate Development

Heifer International

Regions Bank

Regions Financial Corporation

First Commercial Bank

Teletype Corporation

Favorite Color

Blue

C. Bernard Fulp

Bank executive C. Bernard Fulp was born on October 9, 1935 in Winston-Salem, North Carolina to Amanda Murray Fulp and Cyrus Fulp. Fulp graduated from Atkins High School in Winston-Salem in 1953, and received his B.S. degree in elementary education from Winston-Salem State University in 1957. Fulp then served in the U.S. Air Force until 1962, and went on to earn his M.A. degree in education from the University of Connecticut in Storrs, Connecticut in 1963. He also completed a program in management development at the Harvard University Graduate School of Business Administration in 1978.

Fulp began his career in banking as a loan manager at the Wachovia Bank and Trust Company branch in Winston-Salem in 1964. He also worked at State Street Bank and Trust Company and Unity Bank and Trust Company before joining the New England Merchants National Bank in 1970, where he eventually worked his way up to the position of senior vice president. In this role, he was responsible for the bank’s emerging middle market group. When New England Merchants National Bank merged with The CBT Corporation in 1983, creating the Bank of New England – then the second largest bank in New England – Fulp was promoted to executive vice president in charge of the bank’s private banking division, making him the first African American to assume the role. Fulp left the Bank of New England after it was acquired by FleetBoston Financial in 1991. He then worked for the accounting and advisory firm of Grant Thornton LLP until 1994 when he co-founded Middlesex Bank and Trust in Newton, Massachusetts. Fulp led Middlesex Bank until 2002, when it was acquired by Connecticut’s Westport National Bank. In 2004, Fulp became the president of GoBiz Solutions, Inc.

Fulp received numerous awards, including the 2005 Mary Hudson Onley Achievement Award from the Massachusetts Hall of Black Achievement. He served on the Small Business Administration Boston Advisory Council from 1972 to 1982. Fulp was named by Governor Deval L. Patrick to the Massachusetts Board of Higher Education, and chaired its Fiscal and Administrative Affairs Committee. He served as a member of the Lesley University Board of Trustees, and on the board of directors for the American Red Cross of Massachusetts Bay, the Massachusetts Technology Leadership Council, and The Ron Burton Foundation.

Fulp is married to Carol Fulp, and has three children: Deanna, Rachael, and Cyrus.

C. Bernard Fulp was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on October 21, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.076

Sex

Male

Interview Date

10/21/2016

Last Name

Fulp

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Bernard

Occupation
Schools

Harvard Business School

University of Connecticut

Winston-Salem State University

Atkins Academic and Technology High School

14th Street School

First Name

Cyrus

Birth City, State, Country

Winston-Salem

HM ID

FUL01

Favorite Season

Summer

State

North Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Birth Date

10/9/1935

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Boston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fish

Short Description

Bank executive C. Bernard Fulp (1935 - ) was the executive vice president of private banking for the Bank of New England, as well as the founding president of Middlesex Bank and Trust and GoBiz Solutions, Inc.

Employment

GoBiz Solutions, Inc.

Middlesex Bank & Trust Co.

Grant Thornton

New England Mercantile/Bank of New England

Unity Bank and Trust Company

State Street Bank & Trust

Wachovia Bank & Trust

Favorite Color

Blue

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of C. Bernard Fulp's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his mother's career

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his relatives' service in the U.S. military

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his likeness to his father

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - C. Bernard Fulp lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - C. Bernard Fulp describes the black community in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the black business district in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his teachers at the 14th Street School in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers the 14th Street Community Center in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls his family's emphasis on work ethic

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers playing sports

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his early experiences of religion

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his experiences of academic tracking

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers his mentors at Atkins High School in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - C. Bernard Fulp describes the State of North Carolina's influence on the Winston-Salem Teachers College

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers the student unrest at the Winston-Salem Teachers College

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls his graduation from Atkins High School in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the alumni of the Winston-Salem Teachers College, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the alumni of the Winston-Salem Teachers College, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls his aspiration to become an educator

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers his mentors at the Winston-Salem Teachers College in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his social life at Winston-Salem Teachers College

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers Coach Clarence E. Gaines

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls the influence of Simon Green Atkins and Francis Atkins

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the student sit-ins in North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls his service in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his master's degree from the University of Connecticut in Storrs, Connecticut

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers applying for the management training program at Wachovia Bank and Trust Company

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the history of black banking in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his loan management training

Tape: 3 Story: 13 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers providing loans to African Americans in Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - C. Bernard Fulp describes the impact of redlining on the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his promotion to assistant treasurer of State Street Corporation

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls the founding of the Unity Bank and Trust Company in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the history African American banking

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his experiences at New England Merchants National Bank

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his mentors at New England Merchants National Bank

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls his decision to attend Harvard Business School

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his start at the Harvard Business School

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his education at the Harvard Business School

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about Donald Trump's business strategy

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers returning to the New England Merchants National Bank

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the consolidation of the banking industry around 1990

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - C. Bernard Fulp recalls the founding of the Middlesex Bank and Trust Company

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - C. Bernard Fulp remembers the acquisition of the Middlesex Bank and Trust Company

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his accomplishments at the Middlesex Bank and Trust Company

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - C. Bernard Fulp describes the mission of the Middlesex Bank and Trust Company

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his involvement with GoBiz Solutions, Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the competitors of GoBiz Solutions, Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his civic activities

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his service on the Massachusetts Board of Higher Education

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - C. Bernard Fulp describes the impact of massive open online courses

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - C. Bernard Fulp shares his concerns about for-profit universities

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his position on charter schools

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about the future of banking in the black community

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - C. Bernard Fulp describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - C. Bernard Fulp talks about his family

Tape: 6 Story: 11 - C. Bernard Fulp reflects upon his life

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - C. Bernard Fulp reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - C. Bernard Fulp narrates his photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - C. Bernard Fulp narrates his photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$1

DAStory

8$12

DATitle
C. Bernard Fulp describes his accomplishments at the Middlesex Bank and Trust Company
C. Bernard Fulp describes the black community in Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Transcript
I don't want to minimize the accomplishment of it. But founding a bank is a big accomplishment and just want to ask you like what were, what were you able to do as a founder of this bank [Middlesex Bank and Trust Company; Eastern Bank], you know, that, you know, you're proud of and that's part of your legacy today?$$Well, as you've said, I mean, one of the local newspapers, the Herald [Boston Herald] said, "You know, there are a lot of things easier to do than start a bank." And Newton Graphic [The Newton Graphic] called it adventures in banking which I wasn't too happy about thinking (laughter) about, investing my life savings and they're calling it adventure. But we were able to provide services, we had talked earlier about small businesses, small companies and families. Here I was actually able to do that full time. So there were companies, both owned by people of color and of Caucasians that we financed that we helped grow. We had some impact, you know, in a smaller neighborhood within a wealthy suburban community of Newton [Massachusetts]. I mean, it was a big deal. It received a lot of newspaper coverage. We actually were covered on a couple TV stations, Channel 5 [WCVB-TV, Boston, Massachusetts] and Channel 68 [WBPX-TV, Boston, Massachusetts]. We were able to finance some real estate companies. We financed an automobile operation. We financed a summer camp. We did, you know, a number of buildings for small businesses and a number of homeless families around Newton. So, you know, it accomplished its mission and it's--it is still there. It, you know, did not do any bad or crazy things. It was owned by people who wanted to sell it.$The community in east Winston-Salem [East Winston, Winston-Salem, North Carolina] was a very tight black community in terms of business and of the, I mean, the relationships of the people there. From what I understand from--we interviewed Togo West [HistoryMaker Togo D. West, Jr.] years ago, and I forgot what town he grew up in, but he spoke really, he spoke a lot about growing up and the kind of bonds that people had in Winston-Salem.$$Well, you know, again, the professional community there cooperated and worked together in a very unique way at that time. I mean, there was a community of teachers. There were several physicians and dentists who--most of us knew who the players were. Togo's mother [Evelyn Carter West] was the music director in my elementary school, at 14th Street elementary school [14th Street School, Winston-Salem, North Carolina]. Togo's father [Togo D. West, Sr.] was a math teacher and assistant principal at Atkins High School [Atkins Academic and Technology High School, Winston-Salem, North Carolina]. He, in fact, was my geometry teacher. In addition to Safe Bus Company [Winston-Salem, North Carolina] that we talked about earlier, there was Winston Mutual Life Insurance Company [Winston-Salem, North Carolina] run by the Hills brothers. The--there were several funeral homes that--where the owners did pretty well and got involved in real estate matters. Also of significance around Winston-Salem was the fact that in 1947, Winston-Salem elected its first black alderman, Kenneth R. Williams. Williams went on to become, in addition to an alderman, to become president of Winston-Salem State University [Winston-Salem, North Carolina] at a longer time. But as far back as 1947, Winston-Salem elected black people to the board of aldermen. A few years ago, I, as I recall, four out of eight aldermen were African Americans.$$Okay. So, and Winston-Salem--now, you know, when you, when I hear stories about the South, you know, we--I grew up, you know, watching te- television and hearing about the voting right struggles in the South. But they seem to be mo- mostly in the smaller communities, not in the larger ci- cities, like black people could vote in Memphis [Tennessee], they could vote in Atlanta [Georgia] and they could vote in Winston-Salem. Right?$$That's true. And as I said earlier, they actually voted in a black person. The stories around the South or life around the South--in the larger cities, at the time I grew up, Winston-Salem was a city of around 120, 125,000 people. And I believe the percentage of people, of African Americans was around 38 percent, so it was a fairly high representation there. As we understood it, life in the rural areas, life in the mountains could be quite different. But within the cities, R.J. Reynolds didn't want disturbances. He wanted his tobacco factories to run smooth. The (unclear) wanted their tobacco factories to run on time. Piedmont Airlines [Piedmont Airlines, Inc.] didn't look for disruptions. And Western Electric [Western Electric Company] was mak- wanted people that make telephones and spend money. So the city was segregated, but the kinds of stories you hear about some parts of the rural South, Mississippi and other places, you know, were not part of the daily life around Winston-Salem. It was a manufacturing driven town with the, some of the companies I named earlier, several very large banks, so the corporate community wanted things to remains stable.

The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr.

Bank executive and United States ambassador Dwight L. Bush, Sr. was born on February 4, 1957 in St. Louis, Missouri to Charlie and Jessie Bush. He was raised in East St. Louis, Illinois, and attended Clark Junior High School and East St. Louis High School. He graduated from Cornell University in 1979 with his B.A. degree in government and economics.

Upon graduation, Bush joined Chase Manhattan Bank as a trainee in the management development program, and went on to become the bank’s first African American managing director. His tenure at Chase included international corporate banking assignments in Latin America, Asia and the Middle East, and corporate finance and project finance in New York and Washington, D.C. In 1994, he was named vice president of corporate development and chief credit officer of Sallie Mae, where he served until 1997. From 1998 to 2006, Bush worked as a principal at Stuart Mill Capital, LLC; vice president and chief financial officer at SatoTravel Holdings, Inc.; and vice chairman at Enhanced Capital Partners, LLC.

In 2002, Bush founded D.L. Bush & Associates, a financial advisory and private investment firm located in Washington, D.C., where he serves as managing partner and president. Bush then helped establish Urban Trust Bank in 2004, and went on to serve as president and CEO of Urban Trust Bank, Urban Trust Holdings and president of UTB Education Finance, LLC from 2006 until 2008. On August 1, 2013, Bush was nominated by President Barack Obama to serve as the United States Ambassador to the Kingdom of Morocco; and, in March of 2014, the U.S. Senate confirmed the appointment.

Bush was appointed a director of EntreMed Inc. in 2004, and was named vice chairman in 2010. He has also served on the boards of the GAVI Alliance, Cornell University, The Vaccine Fund, ICBC Broadcast Holdings Inc., The Georgetown Day School, and The National Symphony Orchestra. He served on the boards of directors of Urban Trust Bank Holdings, UTB Education Finance, LLC, U.S. Education Finance, LLC, and Urban Cableworks. In addition, Bush was a director of JER Investors Trust Inc., and a member of The White House Fellows Selection Committee.

Bush is married to Antoinette Cook Bush, executive vice president and global head of government affairs at News Corp. They have two children: Dwight Bush, Jr. and Jacqueline Bush.

Dwight Bush was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 22, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.116

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/22/2014

Last Name

Bush

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Lamar

Schools

Cornell University

East St. Louis High School

Clark Junior High School

Park Elementary School

First Name

Dwight

Birth City, State, Country

St. Louis

HM ID

BUS04

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Missouri

Favorite Vacation Destination

Casa de Campo, Dominican Republic

Favorite Quote

Pride Breeds Determination And Determination Breeds Pride.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

2/4/1957

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Bank executive and united states ambassador The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. (1957 - ) was the first African American managing director at Chase Manhattan Bank. He served as vice president of corporate development at Sallie Mae, president and CEO of the Urban Trust Bank, and president of D.L. Bush & Associates. He was named U.S. Ambassador to Morocco in 2014.

Employment

Department of State

D. L. Bush & Associates

Urban Trust Bank

Stuart Mill Capital

Sato Travel

SLM Corp

Chase Manhattan Bank

Favorite Color

Red

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his mother's family background and personality

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his father's career and personality

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers his early home life

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes the prominent figures from East St. Louis, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers his neighborhood in East St. Louis, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his parents' views on parenting

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his parents' religious faith

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his parents' work ethic

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his early personality

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his early schooling

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his early mentors and career aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls his decision to attend Cornell University in Ithaca, New York

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his extracurricular activities

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers his mentors

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about the impact of the Vietnam War

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers his early work experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes the diverse student body at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his initial challenges at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls his early career aspirations

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his work experiences during college

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers his notable classmates at Cornell University

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls entering the training program at Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes the training program at Chase Manhattan Bank, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers his college graduation

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes the training program at Chase Manhattan Bank, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his first full time position at Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls working in Puerto Rico for Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls his colleagues in the banking industry

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. reflects upon his initial success at Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers meeting his wife

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. shares a story from his honeymoon

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls commuting between New York City and Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls resigning from Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about joining the SLM Corporation

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls founding Stuart Mill Capital, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about the acquisition of Sato Travel

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his work in corporate restructuring

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls his efforts to acquire a bank

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. remembers acquiring Urban Trust Bank

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about the urban banking market

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. reflects upon the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls joining the board of Cornell University

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about the higher education system in the United States

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his relationship with his stepfather-in-law, Vernon E. Jordan, Jr.

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls joining the board of Xavier University of Louisiana

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes Norman Francis

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his appointment as ambassador to Morocco, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his appointment as ambassador to Morocco, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his children

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his extended family

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. reflects upon his generation's legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. reflects upon his marriage to Antoinette Cook Bush

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. reflects upon his legacy

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

2$4

DATitle
The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. recalls his efforts to acquire a bank
The Honorable Dwight Bush, Sr. talks about his appointment as ambassador to Morocco, pt. 2
Transcript
So you have these two--I was just trying to remember okay--these two things back to back that have tremendous up- upside, well realized upside potential, I mean tremendous, tenfold (laughter) or more. And so, after that what do you, what do you do after that because that's, that's--$$So, after Sato [Sato Travel; CWTSato Travel], I always have been interested in owning my own bank, because I felt that urban consumers still weren't fully participating in the banking system and therefore they weren't creating the sort of wealth that other families were creating, and so at that point, I have the capacity to start to think about acquiring a bank and so I left Stuart Mill Capital [Stuart Mill Capital, Inc., Falls Church, Virginia] in two thousand- the latter in 2003, yeah, and I spent my time on my advisory work [D.L. Bush & Associates, LLC, Washington, D.C.] and also trying to identify a bank to purchase and Independence Federal in Washington, D.C. was in financial trouble and I was interested in buying Independence Federal, and as I was looking at it myself, it's announced that Bob Johnson [Robert L. Johnson] is interested in buying Independence Federal Savings and Loan [Independence Federal Savings and Association; Independence Federal Savings Bank, Washington, D.C.], and I had known Bob for probably about eight years at that point, both through my wife, Toni's [Antoinette Cook Bush] engagement as his lawyer on certain transactions, and socially around Washington, D.C., and so I called Bob and I said, "Bob, we should talk because I'm interested in buying Independence." And he said, "That's great. We should talk, because I don't know what we would do with it, but I do think that this bank has historically served the needs of African Americans in this community and if we can get a hold of it, we can use that as a platform to support this community more broadly," and so we got together and we talked about buying Independence, and for a variety of reasons, we could not find a way to acquire it, but in the process of considering Independence, we concluded that there was a space for a nationwide African American controlled financial institution that would be looking to meet the core financial service needs of urban based consumers, whether in Washington, D.C., or Philadelphia [Pennsylvania] or Detroit [Michigan] or L.A. [Los Angeles, California], because people need access to credit, people need the process of having access to credit which is having things like bank accounts, et cetera. We know that homeowners, if you own a home, your net worth in America is about three hundred thousand dollars. If you don't, your net worth is about thirty-five thousand dollars in America and a disproportionate part of our population was not making that wealth creation effort.$So the appointment is until the president [HistoryMaker President Barack Obama] serves, right? At the end of the term. How long is the appointment?$$So, your, your appointment is--two things happen. You serve at the pleasure of the president and typically what you would do is you will serve until the end of the term. If the party in power continues in power, you remain in your position until either you choose to leave or the new administration chooses to replace you. If there's a change in the party of the president, you submit your resignation on Inauguration Day, and they determine whether they want to keep you around or not, and, again there are situations in which you are asked to continue until they find a replacement, or you could, you stay longer. But, what I am prepared to do is to be in this position for the next three and a half years and do all I can to make sure that our relationship with the Moroccans is to our mutual benefit and that the mission and the vision and the values of our president are manifested in my behaviors every day.$$It's a country with a lot of, you know, very rich history, topography--$$Yeah.$$--there is a lot going on in neighboring countries.$$Yes, yeah. So, many people ask me the question, "Well did you choose Morocco?" And, the answer is unequivocally yes. It was my first choice and it was my first choice for several reasons. Number one, I wanted to be in a place where I could have an impact and where there are important things, significant things going on. So, Morocco has been, Morocco was the first country to recognize the United States in 1777. Morocco is the furthest point west that the Roman Empire went. When you think of history and the trade routes, there were two trade routes from Africa to Europe, either through Carthage, Tunisia, or through Morocco. Morocco has a progressive Islamic government. When the Jews left Spain to come to Morocco, it was a large, one of the largest groups of Jewish people any place. In fact, Morocco represents the third largest point of movement of Jewish people to Israel after Poland and Russia. Morocco was the third. It has a history of inclusiveness unlike, and progressiveness, that you don't see in many neighboring countries. It is a beautiful country with a beautiful history with beautiful people and I'm looking forward to serving them.$$That's wonderful. Oh, congratulations on that (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Um-hm.

Robert James

Bank president and entrepreneur Robert Earl James was born on November 21, 1946, in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, to Annie Mae and Jimmie James, Sr. James graduated from L.J. Rowan High School in 1964, after which he received his B.A. degree in accounting from Morris Brown College in Atlanta, Georgia. In 1968, James became one of the first African Americans to be accepted into Harvard Business School.

After obtaining his M.B.A. in 1970, James became President of Carver State Bank in Savannah, Georgia, one of the oldest African American-owned commercial banks. During his thirty-year tenure as President and CEO of Carver State Bank, James pioneered the re-development of Atlanta’s inner city as well as helped avert the financial crisis of Morris Brown College. In addition, James acted as Chairman of the National Bankers Association in 1978 and 1990. From 1981 to 2002, James served on the board of the Georgia Telecommunication Authority; he also purchased and revived The Savannah Tribune (now known as The Tribune). In 1989, James became the owner and publisher of The Fort Valley Herald; both are publications dedicated to the African American community.

James was recognized for his work with various honors and awards, including being named one of the 100 Most Influential Black Americans by Ebony Magazine in 2003, and being awarded the Distinguished Service Award by the National Bankers Association.

James and his wife, Shirley James, who is the editor of The Tribune, lived in Savannah, Georgia; they raised three children.

Accession Number

A2007.024

Sex

Male

Interview Date

1/22/2007

Last Name

James

Maker Category
Middle Name

E.

Occupation
Schools

L. J. Rowan High School

Grace Love Elementary School

Morris Brown College

Harvard Business School

First Name

Robert

Birth City, State, Country

Hattiesburg

HM ID

JAM03

Favorite Season

January

Sponsor

Robert James II

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

I'd Rather Be A Could-be If I Cannot Be An Are; Because A Could-be Is A Maybe Who Is Reaching For A Star. I'd Rather Be A Has-been Than A Might-Have-been, By Far; For A Might Have-been Has Never Been, But A Has Was Once An Are.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

11/21/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Savannah

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Okra

Short Description

Bank chief executive Robert James (1946 - ) served for over thirty years as the president and CEO of Carver State Bank.

Employment

Citizen and Southern National Bank

Carver State Bank

Armco Steel Corporation

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:528,11:8008,146:10120,168:13850,183:15950,218:33425,566:34025,575:41808,596:45702,671:48078,720:58176,1013:59166,1028:64182,1144:80600,1298:82840,1354:83800,1375:87480,1448:89320,1471:97974,1575:99906,1612:103839,1703:104460,1713:104943,1723:112809,1862:131724,2102:132132,2109:133900,2156:134512,2164:134784,2169:135192,2176:146684,2514:147092,2522:147636,2533:148248,2544:148724,2552:160134,2672:161520,2687:161828,2692:163060,2714:165293,2750:169528,2861:170144,2870:170452,2879:172300,2899:174841,2935:175611,2947:176227,2959:176535,2966:182950,2985$0,0:1182,15:1884,26:6720,119:15300,359:15768,367:24224,432:24768,441:26672,481:27420,494:29528,562:33812,647:34560,661:36260,695:42610,720:62746,1017:63450,1029:66650,1104:67802,1124:76980,1249:79200,1286:79866,1297:81716,1334:83788,1364:84602,1372:87858,1443:88228,1449:89486,1472:104750,1680:111362,1845:117576,1892:121672,1977:122440,1992:123656,2019:124168,2033:124552,2041:124872,2047:125128,2052:125704,2063:126024,2075:126280,2080:126664,2088:126920,2094:128200,2125:128456,2130:128840,2138:136012,2213:138151,2248:140014,2284:142429,2338:150916,2534:157896,2572:161293,2657:176242,2880:176674,2887:177538,2901:178114,2914:188848,3085:189124,3090:191263,3150:194713,3213:194989,3218:195472,3226:196783,3252:206820,3332:207188,3337:218090,3483:226640,3566:230510,3644:243559,3742:244098,3756:250104,3843:256649,3963:259036,4008:261269,4057:262578,4081:263425,4108:263733,4113:264888,4133:271688,4165:273280,4185
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Robert James' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Robert James lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Robert James describes his maternal grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Robert James describes his mother's personality and community involvement

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Robert James describes his father

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Robert James describes his mother's educational background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Robert James describes his father and the parent he takes after most

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Robert James lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Robert James describes his childhood homes

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Robert James describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Robert James describes his childhood neighborhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Robert James describes his experiences at Grace Love Elementary School

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Robert James describes his childhood extracurricular activities

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Robert James describes his mother's cooking for holiday celebrations

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Robert James recalls his involvement in the African Methodist Episcopal church

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Robert James remembers learning to play the saxophone

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Robert James recalls listening to baseball games on the radio

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Robert James recalls playing in the high school band

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Robert James remembers his involvement in national student council meetings

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Robert James describes his organizational activities in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Robert James describes his teachers at L.J. Rowan High School

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Robert James remembers his high school friends

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Robert James describes his high school jobs

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Robert James recalls his decision to attend Morris Brown College

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Robert James recalls his family's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Robert James describes his reaction to President John Fitzgerald Kennedy's assassination

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Robert James recalls his family's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Robert James recalls cross burnings and the bombing of Vernon Dahmer's home

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Robert James recalls attending Morris Brown College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Robert James explains why he attended a historically black college

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Robert James describes his experiences at Morris Brown College

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Robert James recalls avoiding the Vietnam War draft

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Robert James recalls his brothers' U.S. military service

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Robert James remembers his friend, Paul C. Bland

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Robert James recalls his accounting training at Armco Steel Corporation

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Robert James remembers meeting his wife, Shirley James

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Robert James recalls his experiences at Harvard Business School

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Robert James remembers his classmates at the Harvard Business School

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Robert James reflects upon the importance of community involvement

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Robert James recalls recruiting black students to the Harvard Business School

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Robert James recalls his internship at The Citizens and Southern National Bank of Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Robert James remembers moving to Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Robert James recalls attending Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s funeral

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Robert James remembers the birth of his son

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Robert James describes his family's legacy at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Robert James recalls the political involvement of The Citizens and Southern National Bank of Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Robert James recalls becoming the president of Carver State Bank

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Robert James describes his involvement in fraternities, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Robert James describes his involvement in fraternities, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Robert James recounts the history of Savannah's Carver State Bank

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Robert James talks about Carver State Bank's financial growth

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Robert James talks about the importance of African American owned businesses

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Robert James talks about the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Robert James talks about government minority finance programs

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Robert James describes his book, 'The Mississippi Black Bankers and Their Institutions,' pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Robert James describes his book, 'The Mississippi Black Bankers and Their Institutions,' pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Robert James talks about his son, Robert E. James, II

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Robert James describes his older daughter, Anne James Gennaio

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Robert James describes his younger daughter, Rachelle James Gregory

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Robert James talks about his honorary degrees

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Robert James describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Robert James shares his message to future generations

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Robert James describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Robert James reflects upon his life

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Robert James narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$4

DAStory

2$10

DATitle
Robert James remembers learning to play the saxophone
Robert James recalls becoming the president of Carver State Bank
Transcript
What about music in the home?$$Oh, we were, we loved music. My mother [Annie Gee James] loved music and so did my father [Jim James], in his own quiet way, but he, my mother made it possible for all of us to learn to play a musical instrument. We were poor. She could only afford one instrument and, well, originally she could only afford one. She bought a saxophone and so all of the boys, starting with my oldest brother [Jimmie James, Jr.], who is a musician, who was actually a trained musician, learned how to play saxophone, so one of the highlights of my mother's life was at a church program and four of us, who could play the various saxophones, played 'How Great Thou Art,' on saxophone for my mother, and that was, you know, I learned how to play and my mother bought an alto saxophone. I understand that my brother has actually got that saxophone and has had it refurbished, my oldest brother, who was at Jackson State [Jackson State College; Jackson State University, Jackson, Mississippi], but they, and then when my sister [Elease James Lindsey] came along, she bought a clarinet, so we had two musical instruments that the family owned and my sister learned how to play the clarinet. Well, if you have five boys and one girl and all of 'em playing saxophone, the only one, my youngest brother, Bobby Ray [Bobby Ray James], probably never learned how to play a musical instrument but, you know, things change when the youngest child comes. But, we, we've had to learn how to play an instrument that the school would furnish, so after you learned how to play the saxophone, if you wanted to stay involved in the high school band, and stay involved in music, you had to learn how to something that they school would supply, so all of us were kind of large-sized. My oldest brother became a tuba player and so his major instrument throughout college and throughout all of his music education, is a tuba. He did his senior recital at Jackson State on the tuba, and so I learned, then Arthur [Arthur James] learned how to play the tuba, of course, and he played the tuba in the high school band. John [John L. James] went into, started playing high school football, so he never really continued his music, even though he learned how to play the saxophone because my mother insisted all of us learn how to play saxophone and, of course, I learned how to play the saxophone and when I got to high school [L.J. Rowan High School, Hattiesburg, Mississippi], I gave up the saxophone because I would have to give it up because my younger brother, Bobby Ray, would have had to take the saxophone, but he never really learned how to play it if I recall, but I played tuba in high school. I played the French horn, I played baritone, and then when I got to college, of course I played at Morris Brown [Morris Brown College, Atlanta, Georgia] in the marching band. I played tuba for two years. So, everybody in the house, just about, knew how to play a musical instrument.$So, how do you become the president of Carver State Bank [Savannah, Georgia] in '71 [1971]?$$Well, in 1969 while I was working for C&S Bank [The Citizens and Southern National Bank of Georgia], I came, I was working on my graduate research report for the Harvard Business School [Boston, Massachusetts]. This was the summer of '69 [1969], and I was gonna go back to finish my final year at Harvard Business School. I was doing my research report on the C&S community development corporation, which had started here in Savannah [Georgia], and so in order to do that research, I had to travel to Savannah, and so I came to Savannah to talk to the people at the local office of C&S Bank. During that time, I met a young lady named Betty Ellington [Betty W. Ellington], who was the wife of Coach Russell Ellington, who was a noted basketball coach around here, and also a Morris Brown [Morris Brown College, Atlanta, Georgia] graduate and so is Betty. She was an administrative assistant to the head of the community development corporation of C&S Bank. Well, she told me, she asked me if I had met the people at the black bank in Savannah, and I had not, I don't think I even knew that there was a black-owned bank in Savannah, but she took me to meet the president of this bank, and during the course of that conversation I was so intrigued by the, what looked like an opportunity (laughter) and so I met him and then I, so I talked to him later after that meeting and told him if he would offer me a job when I finished my master's degree from Harvard, I'd take the job, you know, and I wouldn't argue about salary or anything, because those were simpler times when we had no bills (laughter) because the only bill I would have had would have been a student loan or something, so I actually told him I would take a job because I never heard from him. But, I continued to research, to do research on the bank. While I was in Boston [Massachusetts], I would pull the legal reports on the bank and look at it and so forth. So, I kept in touch with people and then when I came back to work, after I finished my master's I came back to work in Atlanta [Georgia] at C&S Bank, I, C&S Bank was what was called the major correspondent bank of Carver State Bank in Savannah, which means that at C&S Bank, we had a file on Carver State Bank, which means I could go to central files and just pull the file and read what was going on and see the legal reports of the bank and so forth, and could understand the relationship between the two banks, and so I actually was aware of this bank and when I found out that their Mr. Perry [Lawrence D. Perry], who was the president, had announced his retirement and that this bank would be looking for a president, I started getting interested in the job. So, I started, I contacted them immediately, I contacted the people at C&S and so, so I became interested in becoming the president and so they had an interview process. I think Mr. J.B. Clemmons [HistoryMaker John B. Clemmons, Sr.] would have been the chairman of the committee and he, so I came down and had my interview, and I think there were two other people that they were considering who, neither of them had any real banking experience, but they were local leaders here in the community, and so I was able to get that job and so I came here as president of the bank. One of the things I asked as a condition of my accepting the job was that immediate upon my acceptance of the job that they announce that I'm the president. And, that's just my Harvard education, that somebody might change their mind (laughter) after, you know, they have a quiet conversation with me, the president might decide he's not gonna retire. And so, in June or July of 1971, there was an announcement that I would be president of Carver State Bank, so I came to work at Carver in July. I actually became president December 1, and so Mr. Perry, who was the president, stayed in the bank for a few months while I was there, and that gave me a chance to assess the staff and to make my decisions as to what I wanted to do when I took over, and so I took over on December 1. One of the first things I did--

Barbara Ann Lumpkin

Banker and former public official Barbara Ann Lumpkin was born Barbara Ann Madlock on July 27, 1950 in Oxford, Mississippi to Estella and John Lewis Madlock. She attended Green Hill Elementary School and graduated from North Panola High School in 1968, where she excelled in theater. Lumpkin earned her A.A. degree from Coahoma Community College in 1970, and after moving to Chicago, she took additional business administration courses at DePaul University.

Lumpkin began her career in banking as an assistant recruiter in the human relations department of Chicago’s Continental Bank. Gaining a front line banking job in 1980, she served in the bank’s Personal Financial Services Group. In 1985, Lumpkin moved to the Corporate Trust Department, where she rose to the position of senior vice president and corporate trust manager. After joining Amalgamated Bank in 1994, Lumpkin was certified as a corporate trust specialist by the Canon Financial Institute. In 1995, Lumpkin became Chicago’s City Comptroller and, in 1998, the City’s Budget Director. In 1999, an investigation forced the City Treasurer out of office, and Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley appointed Lumpkin to the position of City Treasurer. She was later appointed a special assistant to Mayor Daley. In 2000, Lumpkin left this position to become senior vice president in the Corporate and Institutional Services business unit of Northern Trust Bank.

In 2005, Lumpkin was called to serve the City of Chicago as the City of Chicago’s Chief Procurement Officer when it was revealed in early 2005 that Chicago was underperforming in its employment of minority contractors. Lumpkin was responsible for implementing promised improvements. In addition, she leads the City’s Minority, Women and Disadvantaged Enterprise Initiative. She is also an advisory board member of the United Negro College Fund and has publicly endorsed career opportunities in the financial and banking worlds for rising students. Lumpkin is a member of the Chicago Finance Exchange and the Urban Bankers Forum.

Lumpkin was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 18, 2006.

Accession Number

A2006.099

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/18/2006

Last Name

Lumpkin

Middle Name

Ann

Schools

DePaul University

Coahoma Community College

Greenhill Elementary School

North Panola High School

First Name

Barbara

Birth City, State, Country

Oxford

HM ID

LUM02

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

Puerta Vallarta, Mexico

Favorite Quote

Always Respect Self And Others.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

7/27/1950

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Thanksgiving Dinner

Short Description

Bank executive and city treasurer Barbara Ann Lumpkin (1950 - ) was the former chief procurement officer for the City of Chicago, and served as city comptroller and budget director. In the private sector, Lumpkin worked as senior vice president and corporate trust manager for Continental Bank in Chicago.

Employment

Continental Bank

City of Chicago

Northern Trust Company

Favorite Color

Black, Shades of Gray

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Barbara Ann Lumpkin's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her mother's upbringing in Sardis, Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her mother's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her community in Sardis, Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin narrates her photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her experiences at Greenhill Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her teachers at Greenhill Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls the Civil Rights Movement in Mississippi

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the school system in Sardis, Mississippi

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes segregation in Mississippi during the 1960s

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her high school experiences, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the role of music in her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her high school experiences, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls barriers to her aspirations for a business career

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her experiences at Coahoma Community College

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls visiting Chicago, Illinois in her youth

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls joining Continental Bank in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls working in human resources for Continental Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes working in financial services for Continental Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls the 1983 mayoral campaign of Harold Washington

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin narrates her photographs, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the Urban Bankers Forum of Chicago, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the Urban Bankers Forum of Chicago, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls continuing her education in Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin remembers working for Amalgamated Bank of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes working as comptroller for the City of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls becoming budget director for the City of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin remembers her work with Mayor Richard M. Daley

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls how she became treasurer of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls managing the Y2K panic as treasurer of Chicago

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin reflects upon her term as Chicago city treasurer

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her career after serving as city treasurer

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her Northern Trust Corporation vice presidency

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin talks about becoming chief procurement officer of Chicago

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her role as chief procurement officer of Chicago

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin talks about advocating for minority contractors

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her hopes for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin reflects upon her life

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her plans for the future

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her hobbies and family life

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin narrates her photographs, pt. 3

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

5$4

DATitle
Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes working as comptroller for the City of Chicago
Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her career after serving as city treasurer
Transcript
So you're approached by the Daley [Richard M. Daley] administration in '95 [1995] (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Um-hm. In '95 [1995].$$How did that happen?$$It was a surprise to me, too (laughter). Mayor Daley had just won re-election in 1995 and he also had just received the authority to take over the public school system [Chicago Public Schools] and as a result, he was re-tooling his cabinet. The budget chief at the time and his chief of staff and a few of the people who were going over to head the Chicago [Illinois] public school system and so they were moving some people around, the person who was comptroller at the time was being promoted to be CFO [chief financial officer] and they said they were looking to recruit the new comptroller. I received a call one day and I'm thinking, "Oh my God, have we blown their account?" I told the staff, "Look, if we're not balanced or we've blown this account, we're all fired so, oh, my God, oh, my God." But that wasn't what it was about at all. They invited me to come over for coffee and I thought, "Well, I suppose so, you know, I'll walk over, you're a client." They didn't say why, they just said, "Have you ever considered government, city government before?" And I said, "Well, I guess not, I've always worked in a bank."$$And those were the days of Paul Vallas and Gery Chico being the two (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yeah, that was the group that had gone over.$$Yeah, had moved over, right.$$Mm-hm. And as a result, Diane Aigotti was named budget director and then, you know, then there was the comptroller role they were looking for. So I went over and we were just chatting and I was totally convinced in my walk over that I really loved what I was doing, that I was having a really great time, this was a rather unique opportunity for someone like me, you know, the staff and my bosses and all of us. We had this great working relationship and we were really making some significant inroads and, you know, I was just wanting to do what I could to pull that all off. And, and besides, they never said, when they invited me over what the assignment was, they just said, "Would you want to come over and talk to us?" So I went over and spent actually about an hour with them before--being myself, I said, "Okay, what exactly were you talking about. What job are we exactly talking about?" And they said, "Well, we're looking to fill the position of comptroller." I said, "Oh. Then that's different, let's, you know, let's talk more." So that's how we started the conversation. There were I'm sure, a lineup of very talented people. All of them I don't know who they were or whatever, but I just can imagine that a City of Chicago with the talent that it has that there was any shortage in names.$$I might sound dumb here but, is that, you know, you got a big position in a mid-size bank [Amalgamated Bank of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois]] and, you know, I mean, being the comptroller in the City of Chicago, is that more attractive than what you, I mean--$$Well, this is what I always try to do in my career is layer experiences. I thought that, as I still do, that adding the additional experience and the opportunity to see and learn the operation of doing a bond issue from the side of an issuer, which the City of Chicago is and which the comptroller is all responsible for, seeing it from the issuing side, because remember in the past when I was working with the transactions and the clients, it was from the bank's perspective but not from the client's perspective, and I thought I would have been even a better banker because you understand it all. I was--that was always my goal, to try and get to understand, top to bottom, soup to nuts, so, any conversation I would have with someone or if I was trying to resolve an issue, I'm talking about what I know, not what I'm thinking, or whatever I'm making up, this is a real live experience. This is something that I, you know, can talk about with confidence and I thought, you know, for these, and this is my reasoning, I thought, you know these assignments are very high intensity, you know, very demanding, long hours, lots and lots of work or whatever. I'll be back in a couple of years. That was what I thought, but it became a life of its own and I ended up in city government almost six years and doing several different things from that assignment.$Did you go to Northern Trust [Northern Trust Corporation, Chicago, Illinois] immediately after you--$$Not immediately thereafter. I, you know, just needed some time to kind of stop working the ninety hours a day and sort of settle. I worked--I went to the mayor's office as a special assistant to the mayor [Richard M. Daley]. I was working on a number of projects. One of the things that I worked on was the mayor had appointed me during my tenure as treasurer to a mayoral task force and that task force was charged with coming up with ways to identify opportunities to utilize minority women-owned firms at the city [Chicago, Illinois]. And I was fortune to have business leaders, public and private sector, higher ed [higher education], medical services, across the board, work with me on that and we served up some really interesting kind of cutting edge, I think, ideas about what the opportunities could be and how we could reshape, how we could restore. And one of the things that was in that report was some of the things that's in place now in city government and it was kind of like how to restructure and instead of calling it purchasing maybe we call it procurement services. So here it is. I just did that assignment and together with everybody else and when that project was over, it was quite an involved one because we met with the various groups and met with the various individuals, met with community, met with, you know, faith-based, met with all the state collators and everybody else and when the new procurement chief was appointed in 2000, I said, "Here's the bulk of the work that I've worked on and here are some of the things that the group thought might work." And I worked on a few of the other projects there in the mayor's office concentrating on maybe finance, or community outreach kind of stuff and while deciding what I would do next. And that's when I went to Northern Trust.$$Okay.$$It was at the end of the year.$$Okay. So it was at the end of 2000, end of 2000. Okay.$$December 2000, I joined Northern Trust.$$Okay. Now how--what position did you hold at Northern Trust?$$I went to Northern Trust in--my official role was senior vice president. I was first placed in the public funds group. My role was, it was like an undefined role, it pretty much one that I supported the leadership of that group and over time, the role sort of morphed into senior vice president and head of its public affairs and government relations kind of group. Kind of a new role that had not yet existed before at the company, and it took on various shapes depending on the nature of what we were doing. But the central core of it was to help position the company in the--and its core products in the communities it served. And if that meant sitting there with some of the investment guys, talking to a client about an investment transaction, that was helping protect the turf. So basically my role was to join the others, to partner with them to help protect and grow the business. Also, interact with all of the key decision makers external to the bank, be it organizations or political figures who would have an impact on the corporation's well-being. Part of my role was a lot of problem-solving, lending a hand in developing strategy to resolve certain things. You might say I got involved in some of the more complicated, more complex situations, which was kind of fun for me because I kind of like the activity. So that was the job. It was--talk about a trailblazer--much of it had to do with a lot of the external business, you know. Anything that might impact the bank's impression, its image or its client base--

Lenny Springs

Business executive and former member of the NAACP's national board, Lenny Fitzgerald Springs, was born on April 25, 1947, in Edgefield, South Carolina to Leonard Springs and Mildred Morgan. Graduating with a B.S. degree from Voorhees College in 1968, he began his career as project director of the Greenville, South Carolina Urban League from 1976 to 1979, and went on to serve as its deputy director from 1979 to 1982 and executive director from 1982 to 1983.

In 1983, he moved into a role as communication relations officer at Southern Bank, and in 1985, he joined First Union Corporation as senior vice president of the Corporate Relations Division. In April of 2002, after the merger of First Union and Wachovia Corporation the previous year, Wachovia named Springs as director of supplier diversity. In that role, he promotes public awareness and institutes progress programs for community advancement and community reinvestment. Springs has also worked on small and minority business and education advancement programs.

Involved in many other organizations, Springs serves on the board of directors of Boy Scouts Southern Region. He is vice chairman of the South Carolina Human Affairs Commission. Still active in the NAACP, he is chairman of its Special Contribution Fund Board of Trustees. He is past president, founder, and board member of the Charlotte, North Carolina Chapter of 100 Black Men of America. He has served on the boards of Central Carolina Urban League, the Southeast Regional National Alliance of Business, the Business Policy Review Council, Carolinas Minority Supplier Development Council, Inc., Florida Memorial College, Elizabeth City State University, South Carolina State University Foundation and Spirit Square. He is past president of the Voorhees College National Alumni Association and the National Urban Bankers Association, and has served on the board of visitors at Barber-Scotia College and Johnson C. Smith University.

Springs was named one of the Outstanding Young Men of America in 1973 and 1979 and received the NAACP’s Legal Award for South Carolina in 1980. The Greenville Branch of the NAACP honored him with an award in 1984. He also served as a sergeant in the United States Army for two years and received two Bronze Stars and an Air Medal for his acts of heroism in the line of duty.

Accession Number

A2005.159

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/11/2005

Last Name

Springs

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
Speakers Bureau

Yes

Speakers Bureau Availability

Evenings, Weekends

First Name

Lenny

Birth City, State, Country

Edgefield

HM ID

SPR01

Speakers Bureau Preferred Audience

Youth and Adults, Civil Rights and Business

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

Yes - $500 - $1,000

Favorite Season

Fall

Speaker Bureau Notes

Preferred Audience: Youth and Adults, Civil Rights and Business

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Hilton Head, South Carolina

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

North Carolina

Birth Date

4/25/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Charlotte

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Bank executive Lenny Springs (1947 - ) was the Director of Supplier Diversity for Wachovia Bank and Trust Company. In that role, he promoted public awareness and instituted progress programs for community advancement and community reinvestment. Springs has also worked on small and minority business and education advancement programs.

Favorite Color

Black

DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of the Lenny Springs interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Lenny Springs lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Lenny Springs talks about his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Lenny Springs talks about his father's family and their involvement in the NAACP in the 1950s

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Lenny Springs describes his parents' personalities and occupations

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Lenny Springs recalls the sights, smells and sounds of his childhood in rural South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Lenny Springs describes his work ethic and his competitive personality in his teen years

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Lenny Springs talks about his formal education through high school

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Lenny Springs talks about Strom Thurmond and other South Carolina politicians

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Lenny Springs discusses South Carolina's demographics

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Lenny Springs relates his high school experience during segregation

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Lenny Springs discusses his activities and the teachers that influenced him in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Lenny Springs talks about race relations in Edgefield, South Carolina in the early 1960s

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Lenny Springs the national political climate of the early 1960s

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Lenny Springs talks about his move to Atlantic City after high school

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Lenny Springs recalls his experiences at Voorhees College

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Lenny Springs recounts his stint in the U.S. military

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Lenny Springs discusses his involvement with the NAACP and the Urban League

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Lenny Springs talks about his decision to pursue a career in banking

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Lenny Springs details his role in the banking industry

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Lenny Springs details his involvement with Vernon Jarrett and ACT-SO

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Lenny Springs expresses his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Lenny Springs reflects on possible changes in his life's path

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Lenny Springs considers his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Lenny Springs discusses his family

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Lenny Springs describes how he would like to be remembered

John Nathan Hill

John Nathan Hill was born on November 19, 1947 in Boston, Georgia. His mother was a schoolteacher, his father a farmer and the first African American to own and operate a dry cleaner in Boston. In 1965, Hill earned his high school diploma from Magnolia High School in Thomasville. While a student, he participated in track team, glee club, band, Future Farmers of America and the 4-H club.

Hill excelled academically in his two years of undergraduate studies at Clark College in Atlanta (1965- 1967) and moved on to Mercer School of Pharmacy. While in pharmacy school, he interned at Grady Hospital in Atlanta but was drafted into the United States Army before completing his degree.

From 1969 until 1972, Hill served in Vietnam for the Army Security Agency Signal Corp. After his discharge, he earned his B.S. degree in biology and chemistry from Austin Peay State University in Tennessee in 1973.

In 1972, Hill started his fifteen-year career with Sears & Roebuck Company as a credit management trainee in Nashville. He became the first African American to serve in several management positions at the company including credit field representative in Memphis and credit sales and collections manager in Little Rock, Arkansas. In 1987, Hill left Sears to work as national operations director for Discover Card. He served in a number of management positions at Discover until he became President and COO of Morgan Stanley / Discover Bank in 1994. In 2001, Hill transferred to Scotland and served as head of operations for Morgan Stanley’s International Consumer Banking Group, a position he kept until he retired in 2004.

Hill is a member of a number of professional banking and financial organizations including: the Delaware Bankers Association, American Bankers Association, American Bankers Council 2000, and the Advisory Board at the University of Delaware, School of Business.

Accession Number

A2005.068

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/17/2005

Last Name

Hill

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Nathan

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Magnolia High School

Clark Atlanta University

Speakers Bureau

Yes

Speakers Bureau Availability

Any

First Name

John

Birth City, State, Country

Boston

HM ID

HIL09

Speakers Bureau Preferred Audience

Open to all

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

Only if travel is required

Favorite Season

Fall

Speaker Bureau Notes

Preferred Audience: Open to all

Sponsor

Discover Financial Services

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

South Africa

Favorite Quote

Wherever You Go, Whatever You Do, And Whoever You Meet, Always Leave Them Better Than How You Found them.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

11/19/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Seafood, Healthy Soul Food

Short Description

Investment executive John Nathan Hill (1947 - ) was the first African American to serve as National Operations Director for Discover Card. In 1994, he became President and COO of Morgan Stanley/Discover Bank, and relocated to Scotland to serve as Head of Operations for Morgan Stanley’s international consumer banking group.

Employment

Sears Roebuck & Company

Discover Financial Services

Morgan Stanley

U.S. Army

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Blue, Burgundy

Timing Pairs
0,0:3289,93:3763,100:6370,131:7002,140:9925,178:10557,188:12374,208:15060,267:17272,299:22214,313:23050,326:23734,336:24190,344:24950,357:25938,374:26698,386:28294,407:29510,429:30270,447:37805,482:38357,493:38909,502:39461,514:40151,531:40703,540:41462,554:42911,581:43394,627:46060,635:48004,697:49138,732:54160,774:54565,780:55213,788:56023,800:56590,810:64043,854:64335,859:65138,876:65941,890:69153,947:69445,952:70248,968:71927,994:72657,1051:73752,1070:74044,1075:74701,1085:75212,1097:75650,1106:76234,1117:77986,1148:79227,1178:80249,1195:82147,1238:84264,1275:84775,1283:85359,1293:86819,1315:87257,1322:95057,1371:95596,1379:96597,1390:97367,1402:101063,1461:101448,1467:102064,1476:102834,1487:103142,1492:105837,1524:106299,1531:107146,1544:108378,1566:109456,1583:119310,1654:122691,1728:129300,1784:130152,1798:130578,1806:131501,1826:132282,1846:136400,1935:136826,1943:138530,1966:139169,1976:140518,2002:145200,2028:145680,2036:146320,2046:151280,2125:152160,2137:152720,2146:153440,2158:153840,2164:154480,2172:159568,2210:159982,2217:160879,2235:161707,2248:162052,2254:163225,2273:163708,2281:164260,2290:165157,2304:170048,2358:170594,2368:171452,2380:174613,2407:176266,2454:177310,2464:188272,2570:189286,2587:189598,2592:191158,2665:191860,2677:192250,2683:192874,2691:193498,2700:196814,2709:197209,2716:197604,2722:202818,2820:204398,2849:205425,2864:208680,2875$0,0:498,42:6265,144:6922,154:11320,176:15180,198:15774,205:21021,288:25570,310:26620,332:27145,340:28270,368:30745,431:31045,436:31720,446:32020,451:37332,494:39118,514:39588,520:40340,528:41092,537:41844,547:44100,577:46544,616:47014,622:52026,663:52806,674:53274,681:53820,689:54600,700:56238,731:57408,744:58422,758:62080,787:63130,804:63655,814:64030,820:64705,831:65230,839:65980,851:69773,876:70463,884:71567,900:72326,914:81490,1027:82280,1040:84018,1066:90338,1178:94051,1255:94841,1269:95157,1274:100850,1299:106250,1399:106625,1405:107525,1421:109025,1449:110000,1465:110300,1470:110750,1478:111050,1483:111350,1492:111650,1497:112475,1510:112775,1515:114500,1547:115700,1580:116000,1585:124367,1633:125175,1643:128980,1678:129220,1683:129460,1688:129880,1696:130420,1706:130660,1711:131440,1732:132400,1759:132640,1767:136485,1796:139092,1837:139408,1842:143558,1878:143893,1885:144161,1890:148449,1974:149186,1986:149655,1994:150191,2002:151062,2022:151665,2035:152335,2048:152871,2061:153675,2074:157604,2095:157908,2100:159124,2120:160112,2137:162696,2184:163228,2193:163532,2198:164368,2211:164672,2216:165508,2229:166344,2241:172044,2316:176876,2328:178460,2353:179890,2396
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of John Nathan Hill's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - John Nathan Hill lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - John Nathan Hill describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - John Nathan Hill describes his mother's personality and her growing up in Dixie, Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - John Nathan Hill describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - John Nathan Hill describes how his parents met in Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - John Nathan Hill recalls his grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - John Nathan Hill talks about tracing his ancestry

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - John Nathan Hill describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - John Nathan Hill recalls playing with his cousins

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - John Nathan Hill recalls his family's holiday traditions

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - John Nathan Hill talks about his sister and her family

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - John Nathan Hill recalls growing up on Railroad Avenue in Boston, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - John Nathan Hill describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up in Boston, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - John Nathan Hill recalls his family's first telephone

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - John Nathan Hill describes his elementary school in Boston, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - John Nathan Hill describes himself as an elementary school student

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - John Nathan Hill recalls Trinity Missionary Baptist Church in Boston, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - John Nathan Hill describes his junior high school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - John Nathan Hill recalls Magnolia High School in Thomasville, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - John Nathan Hill describes his decision to attend pharmacy school at Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - John Nathan Hill recalls the civil rights era in Boston, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - John Nathan Hill recalls witnessing the Civil Rights Movement as a student in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - John Nathan Hill recalls pledging Clark College's Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - John Nathan Hill describes his decision to stop studying pharmacy

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - John Nathan Hill remembers being drafted into the U.S. Army in 1969

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - John Nathan Hill recalls serving in Vietnam from 1970 to 1971

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - John Nathan Hill remembers studying biology and chemistry at Austin Peay State University

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - John Nathan Hill recalls joining Sears, Roebuck and Co. in 1973

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - John Nathan Hill recalls being a Sears, Roebuck and Co. representative in the South during the 1970s

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - John Nathan Hill describes his career at Sears, Roebuck and Co.

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - John Nathan Hill recalls being among the first African American corporate employees at Sears, Roebuck and Co.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - John Nathan Hill talks about the fate of Sears, Roebuck and Co.

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - John Nathan Hill talks about the consolidation of corporations

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - John Nathan Hill recalls the launch of the Discover card by Sears, Roebuck and Co.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - John Nathan Hill talks about the opportunities and mentoring that he received at Dean Witter Financial Services Group, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - John Nathan Hill reflects upon African Americans in senior positions at financial institutions

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - John Nathan Hill recalls becoming president and chief operating officer of Greenwood Trust Company

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - John Nathan Hill describes his role as chief operating officer of Greenwood Trust Company

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - John Nathan Hill talks about the need for opportunities in the financial sector for African Americans

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - John Nathan Hill recalls the offer to relocate as Morgan Stanley Consumer Banking Group International's head of operations

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - John Nathan Hill talks about living in Scotland, United Kingdom

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - John Nathan Hill gives advice to African Americans interested in financial services and banking

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - John Nathan Hill reflects upon his life

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - John Nathan Hill describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - John Nathan Hill talks about the people who have influenced his life

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - John Nathan Hill narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

8$2

DATitle
John Nathan Hill describes his role as chief operating officer of Greenwood Trust Company
John Nathan Hill gives advice to African Americans interested in financial services and banking
Transcript
And, we had a credit card operation there [Greenwood Trust Company; Discover Bank], and card member services, and we had a payment facility there too in Dover, Delaware; quite a number of people, about 1,900 employees in all. So, it was a, it was a huge step. And, also a heavy involvement in the community was required and something that we needed to do even more of, in serving the community and giving back to the community from whence these people had come. So, I, that was, that was a defining moment, you know, one of the defining moments in my life to be asked to go and take that role. And, it was a very important role in that community, in the Delaware, in the Wilmington [Delaware] community, throughout the State of Delaware. And, being the, the, among the first African American to head up a bank in Delaware is--was significant. And, many people looked at that as being significant. And, I cherish that and I was proud of the fact that I was in a position on behalf of our company [Dean Witter, Discover & Co.; Morgan Stanley] to represent us in so many different ways. But, also, to make a big difference in the community in which we were in. And, to be sensitive to the needs of the community. Whether it was in housing, whether it was in extending certain loans, or whether it was in the credit card operation, whether it was in employment, or helping people get through the ranks, you know, within our own company. Or, to work with other minority businesses that were aspiring to develop and to create something of their own. Like, one company advanced staffing. We needed temporary help and, so, we started working with a young lady named Pat Troy [ph.] at that time, to try and help her get her business up. But, and she was a minority business lady determined to make it work. And, we just happened to be in a position, and we could help her. And, now she's doing extremely well. But, it was that kind of environment that I was fortunate enough to be in and to be helpful. And, there were quite a number of others that I won't name. And, then I became selected on the Delaware Bankers Association board of directors. First African American for that. And, subsequently became president of that organization where there are no other African American presidents of banks in Delaware. And, as you may know, Delaware is kind of a capital for banking. And, so that was also significant and I did that for a year and that was, that was out--extremely important for that move to have been made. And, guess what, Kathy Roberts is now slated to be the next president of the Delaware Bank Associ [sic. Discover Bank]- so, now, she will be the first African American woman in such a great role. And, it's, it's--these are the kinds of things, I think, that are so, so important for our people to be able to see and understand and appreciate.$Mr. Hill [HistoryMaker John Nathan Hill], what advice do your have for someone, particularly African American, who is interested in a career in financial services or banking?$$Well, you know, maybe twenty years or so ago, 'cause I was--got into it with Sears [Roebuck and Co.] thirty-two years ago--I would've said, you know, get a college education, you know and get that degree and that's about all you need. And, then maybe in some instances that might be, even today. But, I, but I think it's important if a young African American person is interested, they should start developing their skillset, and develop their awareness, and develop their learning in college by taking courses associated with financial services. And, particularly international finance. Or, and, having an appreciation for that, and being willing to venture outside the borders of the U.S. And, sharing that desire and interest with companies that you either are working for or ones that they aspire to work with. So, I think, there's a need to develop that discipline and to acquire that learning if you can now, while they're in undergrad, or in their graduate years. Because I think it'll be better for them, and it'll be--allow them and afford them the opportunity to compete maybe even better. You know, I was fortunate because I had worked up through the ranks and I learned it as I went along, and it takes, takes longer to do it that way. But, I think, if someone who has that base to work from and that knowledge to work from will, should be able to do much better. But, be willing to take some risk. You know, I believe sometime, we as people of color, do not want to step out and take that risk in something like this. And, maybe we feel that we're gonna--the fear of failure. And, the fact that something else has happened to us in our past that keep up from doing it. But, I think, it's important for us to, to find someone who can mentor us. And, it doesn't have to be necessarily another African American, if can be someone else that you can develop that relationship with. And, who have been successful in their career and who's willing to kinda take you under their arms and give you some guidance and some thoughts and suggestions about how you maneuver through the corporate, big company pha--maze that's there. So, those are, that would be some of the things that I would recommend--

Peter F. Hurst, Jr.

Peter Frederick Hurst, Jr., founder and chief executive officer of the Community’s Bank in Bridgeport, Connecticut, was born on October 29, 1955, in Houston, Texas. Raised in the Third Ward of Houston by parents Peter and Ophelia Hurst, Sr., Hurst was an Eagle Scout at the Wheel Ave. Baptist Church. Attending E.L. Blackshear Elementary School and Sidney Lanier Junior High School, Hurst graduated from Mirabeau Lamar High School in 1974 as a member of the National Honor Society. Hurst earned his A.B. degree in accounting, magna cum laude, from Duke University in 1978, and his J.D. degree from Harvard Law School in 1981.

Hurst clerked for Judge Damon Keith of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in 1981, and a year later he joined the Steptoe and Johnson Law Firm in Washington, D.C. From 1984 to 1986, Hurst served in the General Counsel’s Office of the Federal Reserve Bank. Moving to New York City, Hurst worked as an investment banker with E.F. Hutton, and in 1987, became senior vice president with Dean Witter. Going into business for himself in 1990, Hurst worked with smaller clients through Bahia Partners and Hurst Capital Partners. In 2001 Hurst created the Community’s Bank, opening branches in the Connecticut cities of Hartford, Bridgeport, and Bloomfield. As founder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president of the Urban Financial Group, the company which controls Community’s Bank, Hurst runs the only independent, minority owned bank in Connecticut.

Hurst has served on the boards of the Republic New York Corporation; the Bridgeport Area Foundation; the Community Service Society of New York; Boy Scouts of America (Bronx Council); the University of Scranton; and the United American Healthcare Corporation. Hurst was honored in 2003 by the African American Affairs Commission of Connecticut, and in 2004 became the first African American to serve as grandmaster of the Phineas T. Barnum Parade and Festival in Bridgeport.

Accession Number

A2005.049

Sex

Male

Interview Date

2/15/2005

Last Name

Hurst

Maker Category
Middle Name

F.

Occupation
Schools

Harvard Law School

Sidney Lanier Junior High School

Blackshear Elementary School

Lamar High School

Lanier Middle School

Duke School

First Name

Peter

Birth City, State, Country

Houston

HM ID

HUR01

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

Often Wrong, but Never in Doubt.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Connecticut

Birth Date

10/29/1955

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Hartford

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken

Short Description

Bank executive Peter F. Hurst, Jr. (1955 - ) was the founder and chief executive officer of the Urban Financial Group, which controls the Community’s Bank in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

Employment

Steptoe & Johnson

Federal Reserve Board

E .F. Hutton

Dean Witter

Bahia Partners

Hurst Capitol Partners

Community's Bank

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:11680,180:13108,206:13584,215:20248,393:25620,439:26040,445:27132,456:28140,486:29568,507:31332,549:31752,555:32340,563:35616,625:38976,700:42550,705:43353,713:46054,749:46565,757:46930,763:55560,890:56835,907:57210,913:62050,968:62831,984:69079,1115:85322,1402:90470,1486:100218,1619:100574,1624:102799,1660:106092,1713:106448,1718:118036,1850:118558,1857:118993,1862:121342,1905:123169,2017:123604,2023:124561,2040:127084,2078:130958,2098:132068,2114:132512,2121:140060,2279:149308,2394:149672,2399:157953,2534:158863,2546:160410,2569:162321,2627:180310,2794$0,0:1066,21:2050,40:2624,51:5904,119:8200,168:11150,173:14038,220:14418,226:17914,324:22170,402:26114,432:26438,437:28139,462:28706,469:32027,541:32675,557:33080,563:36482,630:37049,637:39236,683:39722,690:40370,699:44262,757:47814,798:49294,830:49590,839:50108,846:53586,938:55954,1006:56250,1011:62410,1064:67165,1143:67615,1153:70540,1218:73315,1298:76240,1319:84720,1450:90080,1587:101000,1723:102944,1749:103268,1754:107966,1833:108371,1839:120454,1984:124070,2047
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Peter F. Hurst, Jr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his paternal family background and his parents meeting

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his parents' personalities and his resemblance to them

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about being adopted

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up in Houston, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about his formative reading experiences

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about attending Blackshear Elementary School and Sidney Lanier Junior High School in Houston, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about playing the trumpet in school and at church

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about the band at St. John Missionary Baptist Church in Houston, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about his extracurricular activities at Mirabeau Lamar High School in Houston, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his involvement in the Boy Scouts of America

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. recalls his high school academics and his decision to attend college

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. explains his decision to attend Duke University in Durham, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his activities at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. explains his initial plan to pursue an accounting career

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. recalls his decision to attend Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. remembers his experience at Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about overcoming a financial hurdle in order to graduate law school

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. reflects on what he learned as a law clerk for HistoryMaker Judge Damon Keith

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. tells a story of HistoryMaker Judge Damon Keith in the courtroom

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. remembers attending the NAACP Fight for Freedom Fund Dinner with HistoryMaker Judge Damon Keith

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes working for Steptoe and Johnson LLP and the Federal Reserve Board in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. recounts switching from a law career to investment banking in 1986

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. recalls the trajectory for founding Hurst Capitol Partners Inc.

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes the process of starting The Community's Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. reflects on the development of The Community's Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes the diverse clientele and staff at The Community's Bank in Bridgeport, Connecticut

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about The Community's Bank involvement in community development

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about his civic involvement as leader of The Community's Bank in Bridgeport, Connecticut

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about the future of The Community's Bank in Bridgeport, Connecticut

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes his concerns for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. reflects upon his life

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. shares two stories of the The Community's Bank assisting its customers

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about his mother witnessing his success

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Peter F. Hurst, Jr. narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$3

DAStory

10$2

DATitle
Peter F. Hurst, Jr. talks about The Community's Bank involvement in community development
Peter F. Hurst, Jr. tells a story of HistoryMaker Judge Damon Keith in the courtroom
Transcript
What significant projects has the bank [The Community's Bank, Bridgeport, Connecticut] supported, you know, in the community, would you--?$$Well two things. Let me describe--we're designated, when I say we both the bank and our holding company. Our holding company is called the Urban Financial Group. We're designated by the U. S. treasury department [U.S. Department of the Treasury] as a community development financial institution. Which means that both the bank and the holding company have, as our primary missions, community development. Which doesn't mean we're doing bad loans it just means the kind of you know market Bridgeport [Connecticut] is and the kind of things we're doing as a bank will by definition improve this community. Because we're focusing on you know residential real estate loans which you know enhances and supports homeownership. We're focused on doing commercial loans which enhances and supports entrepreneurship. So, you know, because we're a community development financial institution a lot of our lending activities qualify for something that the treasury department has called a bank enterprise award. Where it's, it's almost like a Discover Card you get cash back for lending that you've done in certain markets. So based on our lending activities in Bridgeport, Hartford [Connecticut] and New Haven [Connecticut] respectively, you know, we got an award earlier in our fiscal year, our fiscal year starts July first and ends June 30. So October we got a bank enterprise award of over $300,000. So, you know that's an example of, you know, something that, you know, the bank directly does in, in fulfilling its mission of lending that's had a positive impact. We also support a lot of causes and, you know, like I'm active on a lot of local boards of directors. And the bank is, you know, supported things like there's an organization in town called The Music and Arts Center for Humanities [sic. The Music and Arts Center for Humanity, Bridgeport, Connecticut] and every year they have a show put on by the Ailey II traveling production. And we support that by buying tickets for kids in Bridgeport schools to go to that performance. Because the theory is, is that, you know, a significance cultural event, the kids wouldn't have the money to go otherwise and, and you know we want to support that. I've done things like they, they have a read aloud day and I go, you know if not every month, every other month to a school here in town that's on the, you know, one of the poorer sections of town call the Newfield School [Bridgeport, Connecticut] and I read to a group of first grades. And I actually went you know last Thursday and read a Langston Hughes book, you know signif--you know in significance of, you know, Black History Month.$Can you remember the cases you all were working on when you were clerking there?$$Yep, a lot of, you know, significant cases that we worked on. But I guess one of the most significant things I saw during that year, the Sixth Circuit [U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit] sits in Cincinnati, Ohio, so like every six weeks or so we would, you know, you know go down to Cincinnati, and have like three days of hearings. And I'll never forget there was a social security appeal, a lot of cases you never write opinions on, they, they just, the lower court decision gets aform- affirmed on order. But there was a, it was a social security appeal where a woman had applied for social security benefits, had been denied and, you know, she had appealed that denial. And you know so they would always send, you know, a lawyer from the social security to represent the government. And I'll never forgot this, you know, the lawyer was making his argument and [HistoryMaker] Judge [Damon J.] Keith leans over smiles and said, "Excuse me sir, but I just have one question for you, does ice water run through your veins?" And the lawyer just said, "No judge, I don't want to appeal this case I agree with the woman's position but they're their making me do this." And I just thought that was the most amazing thing. That, you know, he didn't brow beat the guy, didn't say it in a nasty way he just said it very you know succinctly, very matter of fact and the guy just cracked (laughter). So I mean we, we dealt with a lot of very important cases during my year with the judge, but that one incident, you know, stands out in my memory, as to you know what the Judge was all about you know. And, and how he did things because he essentially in open court you know with a stenographer present got a lawyer to just throw away his whole position (laughter) with a simple question, so.$$That's quite a story though--$$Yeah.$$--that's a--yeah. That's a story you'd have to hear from somebody else other than Judge Keith about his--$$Right.$$Yeah.