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Benjamin Tucker

Noted jazz musician Benjamin Mayor Tucker was born on December 13, 1930 in Brentwood, Tennessee. Tucker and his twin brother grew up in Nashville with their parents Carrie Clayborne and Joseph Tucker. He graduated from Pearl High School in 1946 and matriculated at Tennessee State University in 1949 as a music major. In 1950, he joined the United States Air Force, serving for four years.

Tucker’s love for music began at an early age. He taught himself to play the tuba at the age of thirteen and later the bass violin and piano. Some of his favorite jazz musicians included Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington and Fletcher Henderson. In 1956, Tucker moved to Hollywood, California, where he met Warren Marsh. His first recording was a collaboration with Marsh entitled Jazz of Two Cities in 1959. That same year, Metronome magazine named him one of the world’s top ten bass players. In 1961, he recorded Coming Home Baby, a hit for Herbie Mann and Mel Torme. This song was featured in the film Get Shorty.

Tucker became Savannah, Georgia’s first African American radio station owner in 1972 when he purchased WSOK Radio. WSOK was the top AM station for thirteen years. His station had over 400,000 listeners and a reputation of integrity in advertising. In 1989, Tucker opened Hard Hearted Hannah’s, a jazz club. He was not only the owner of the club, but he also led the band six nights a week.

Tucker served on the boards of several organizations. President Jimmy Carter appointed him to serve on the Selective Service Board, and President Ronald Reagan reappointed him. Tucker for the 1996 Olympic Committee in Atlanta, Georgia. He was also the creator of the Telfair Jazz Society in Savannah.

Tucker and his wife, Gloria, resided in Savannah, Georgia. They had two adult children, Sabra and Wayne.

Tucker was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on January 23, 2007.

Benjamin Tucker passed away on June 4, 2013.

Accession Number

A2007.026

Sex

Male

Interview Date

1/23/2007

Last Name

Tucker

Maker Category
Schools

Tennessee State University

Martin Luther King Jr Magnet High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Benjamin

Birth City, State, Country

Brentwood

HM ID

TUC05

Favorite Season

Spring

Sponsor

Savannah Chapter of the Links, Inc

State

Tennessee

Favorite Vacation Destination

Barbados, Grenada, Antigua

Favorite Quote

I Love You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

12/13/1930

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Savannah

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Ox Tails, Filet Mignon

Death Date

6/4/2013

Short Description

Radio entrepreneur and jazz bassist Benjamin Tucker (1930 - 2013 ) was Savannah, Georgia's first African American radio station owner.

Employment

Tuckrow Productions, Inc.

WSOK Radio

WLVH Radio

Hard Hearted Hannah's

Main Sponsor
Main Sponsor URL
Favorite Color

Lavender, Purple

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Benjamin Tucker's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Benjamin Tucker lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his paternal grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his paternal grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Benjamin Tucker recalls lessons from his maternal grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his father's gardening skills

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his relationship with his father

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Benjamin Tucker describes his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his home in Brentwood, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his mother's resourcefulness

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Benjamin Tucker describes his brothers

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his neighbors in Brentwood, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Benjamin Tucker remembers Brentwood Elementary School in Brentwood, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Benjamin Tucker describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his childhood activities

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Benjamin Tucker describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Benjamin Tucker remembers Pearl High School in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Benjamin Tucker recalls serving in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his experience of racial discrimination on a bus ride

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Benjamin Tucker recalls discovering the jazz community in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his bass violin training

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Benjamin Tucker recalls purchasing his Tyrolean bass violin

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his introduction to New York City's jazz community

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Benjamin Tucker recalls playing with Marian McPartland at the Hickory House in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his early recordings on the West Coast

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Benjamin Tucker remembers recording 'Comin' Home Baby'

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Benjamin Tucker recalls the impact of the record, 'Comin' Home Baby'

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Benjamin Tucker remembers helping Bobby Hebb record 'Sunny'

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Benjamin Tucker recalls selling his publishing rights to 'Sunny'

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Benjamin Tucker remembers founding Tuckrow Productions, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Benjamin Tucker remembers creating educational songs

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his venture into the radio broadcast industry

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Benjamin Tucker recalls purchasing WSOK Radio in Savannah, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his initial challenges at WSOK Radio

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Benjamin Tucker describes his programming at WSOK Radio

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Benjamin Tucker remembers his community engagement at WSOK Radio

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Benjamin Tucker recalls buying WLVH Radio in Hardeeville, South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Benjamin Tucker recalls building a new broadcast tower for WLVH Radio

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his return to musicianship

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Benjamin Tucker talks about his committee and board service

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Benjamin Tucker recalls musicians with whom he played in Savannah, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Benjamin Tucker recalls Hard Hearted Hannah's jazz club in Savannah, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Benjamin Tucker talks about the challenges of owning a restaurant

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Benjamin Tucker describes his commitment to Savannah's African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his social activism in Savannah, Georgia, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Benjamin Tucker recalls his social activism in Savannah, Georgia, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Benjamin Tucker recalls playing music at the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Benjamin Tucker talks about his albums, 'Savannah Presents Jazz' and 'Christmas in Savannah'

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Benjamin Tucker talks about his diabetes advocacy

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Benjamin Tucker recalls playing with renowned jazz musicians

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Benjamin Tucker remembers touring with Peggy Lee

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Benjamin Tucker remembers repairing his antique bass violin

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Benjamin Tucker talks about musicians with whom he would like to play

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Benjamin Tucker describes the changes in Brentwood, Tennessee

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Benjamin Tucker talks about his family members

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Benjamin Tucker reflects upon his life

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Benjamin Tucker describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Benjamin Tucker narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$4

DAStory

6$5

DATitle
Benjamin Tucker remembers recording 'Comin' Home Baby'
Benjamin Tucker recalls his initial challenges at WSOK Radio
Transcript
What year was this that you make the record that was the big hit for you?$$Oh, that was--that, that was--the big hit that, that I wrote was in 1961--1960.$$And tell me the name of it one more time?$$It's called 'Comin' Home Baby,' C-O-M-I-N, Home Baby.$$And you said you wrote it for your wife?$$I wrote it for my wife. (Laughter) Yeah, it was funny--you know, it was funny. She, she was--I was at the bar one night in, in the Hickory House [New York, New York], and a guy walks in and he sits down and starts talking to me. And I tell--I tell him, I said, "Look, man, I need a place to stay. I don't have a place to stay." He said, "You don't?" I said, "No." He says, "I know a lady that, that maybe she, she could help you," and he calls Gloria [Gloria Daly Tucker]. Gloria was sick at the time. She, she just got out of the hospital. She's sick, so she tried to help me. And I was so appreciative of someone trying to help me back then, I invited her to come to the Hickory House and be my guest and see Tucker [HistoryMaker Benjamin Tucker] was making some money, you know, I, I could afford more than a cup of coffee. But she came. She didn't come when I invited her to come, she came about three or four weeks later. She was supposed to come like this week, she didn't come like until six weeks later, three, three to six weeks later. She, she pops in. When she walked through the front door, I said, that's her 'cause she came in with a girlfriend. She had this mink hat on and, and mink around her neck and leather, leather coat and I said, ooh, look out. And sure enough, it was her. She walked in, the maitre d' seated them. And when I came off the bandstand, I went straight to her and sit down next to her and I said, "Hey, there." She (laughter)--she says, "You (unclear)," I said (laughter)--I played around with her. I said, "Well, this is mine. I want you. I appreciate what you did, girl. You're something else." And it worked out. And I just kept hounding her and hounding her from day in and day out for about six months and finally she gave in. "Okay, all right, all right." And so the result is she's my wife. And I was practicing back then and I came across this melody on my instrument. I said, hm, son of a gun. Played it. In about ten minutes, I had the whole song written. So I was working with Herbie Mann at the Village Gate [New York, New York] at the time and I said, "Herbie, I'm gonna teach you a song," right. He says, "Cool." So I taught him the song. And they were recording live the next night and I taught the song to the vibraphonist and to the drummer. Each, each, each musician I would teach, teach the song. "Hey, man, this the way this go," (makes sounds). And I went up and did one take live and it was a big smash, twenty-three minutes long, one tune. Three tunes on the album, one tune that long, big hit. And here I am again smiling from jaw to jaw. The guy said (laughter)--it was funny. It was funny. I was on the road. I left--Herbie went on the road with Chris Connor and, and while I was on the road, guys would tell me, "Hey man, you got a big tune in, in Cash Box and Record World," and, and, and I said, "Oh, really? Okay." I didn't know it until I saw it and then right here, there it was.$So you purchased the radio station.$$I purchased the radio station.$$Okay.$$And--$$What was the first order of business?$$The first order of business was to find out what I was going to program and how I was going to program it. Then, I ran into a lot of opposition from the people that were--that were at the station when I--when I walked in the first day. They didn't wanna see me. They didn't wanna hear me. They didn't--'cause I'd never ran a station before in my life, but I was determined that what is needed on the air, you don't need a tremendous amount of experienced with it. All you need to do is know what direction you wanna go in. And so I had that--I had that laid out already in my own mind and down on paper, cool, so I went in. A lot of people quit. I didn't know that at WSOK [WSOK Radio, Savannah, Georgia] that at that time, they had a lot of shooting going on and other--drugs going on and, and up in the--in the ceiling there's all kinds of gunshots, you know, in the--in this--I had no idea this went down. It's a good thing that they didn't tell me this 'cause I, I--I would have probably flipped out. But then--but, but then, I, I had employees to, to, to get so down on me that they went and, and, and--to South Carolina side and bring--they brought the voodoo thing on me. I went through the voodoo. Let me tell, tell you about that voodoo business, you know. The voodoo was that they would have dead cats laid out along the path of, of--for me coming to the station and that's supposed to redirect my, my directions in life, or what I need to do (laughter). They were trying to control me, you know. "Hey, hey, hey, boy, you can't do that (unclear)." So, I would--I would get the rake every morning for about a month and rake this cat out the way. One morning I came there and there was--there was a cross like this (gesture) with, with cat heads, nine cat heads, six and three like this laying up against the--I said, I don't believe this, man. So I, I get the rake again and knock the--knock the--knock the cross down and kick the rake on in, in the back and just, just kicking it along and kicking it along. I didn't wanna touch it, you know. I just kicked it down there. Finally, they gave up (laughter). They finally gave up. But, but, but some other things went on, you know, besides that in terms of running the station, trying--when, when I finally got the station moving forward, everything quieted down, the community believed in what I was doing and I was bringing community affairs, I was dealing with economics. I, I even cleaned up the gospel program, bringing on churches and things of this nature, trying to make it--make it more better and, and trying to deal with them. And, and I became number one in the market, that was the first forty-three days of, of being there and I stayed number one for about eleven years with an AM station, with 1000 watts a day and 250 watts at night, right (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Wow.

Louis Dinwiddie

Pioneering radio broadcaster Louis Dinwiddie was born on October 29, 1935, in St. Louis, Missouri, and grew up as an only child in Fort Wayne, Indiana. His father, James Arthur Dinwiddie, was a trumpet and saxophone player who traveled all over the country.

The only African American in his parochial school, Dinwiddie helped lead Central Catholic High School to a state championship in 1950. He spent four years in the United States Air Force after graduating and then moved back to Fort Wayne. After working in a steel mill for over six years, he sold insurance for Chicago Metropolitan Life. Enjoying sales, Dinwiddie moved into retail. He opened a clothing store in 1970 that successfully catered to both blacks and whites, selling trend-setting fashions for years. However, a bank denied him a loan to buy his fall merchandise, forcing Dinwiddie to close the shop.

The booming cable television industry inspired him to learn about cable radio and he entered the industry headfirst. The station's urban format included gospel music on Sunday mornings, blues on Saturday afternoons, heavy soul and news geared to an African American audience. In 1990, the station that Dinwiddie built from the ground up switched from cable to an FM frequency. WJFX continued to broadcast the original urban programming until 1999, when Dinwiddie sold it. Now retired, Dinwiddie still lives in Fort Wayne.

Accession Number

A2002.195

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/29/2002

Last Name

Dinwiddie

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Central Catholic High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Louis

Birth City, State, Country

St. Louis

HM ID

DIN02

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Missouri

Favorite Vacation Destination

Arizona

Favorite Quote

A Broke Ass Will Break A Rich Ass Every Time.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Indiana

Birth Date

10/29/1935

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Fort Wayne

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Steak

Short Description

Radio entrepreneur Louis Dinwiddie (1935 - ) owned the first black radio stations in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Dinwiddie started a cable radio station from the ground up and later made it an FM station. WJFX broadcasts urban programming.

Employment

Chicago Metropolitan Life

WJFX Radio

Louis D's Clothing Store

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:582,25:12964,241:18868,371:36758,635:40862,706:56094,876:65510,1015:66654,1036:96250,1357:96970,1365:97420,1371:101740,1437:108040,1633:117566,1688:123044,1886:138330,2129$0,0:3450,51:4800,78:5325,87:5700,93:11475,279:29430,467:37823,598:43059,666:46601,730:60670,869:61090,877:66900,997:87124,1288:96176,1483:98439,1526:100337,1562:106950,1586:108514,1641:116606,1756:117762,1774:118578,1822:130458,1925:130943,1992:135890,2073:139188,2138:139867,2146:147141,2236:149623,2285:184124,2787:184628,2795:187220,2853:190942,2868:192022,2886:192598,2901:195890,2946:203909,3049:211194,3091:211691,3099:211975,3104:214350,3123
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Louis Dinwiddie's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Louis Dinwiddie lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Louis Dinwiddie describes how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Louis Dinwiddie describes how his mother ended up in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Louis Dinwiddie shares stories from his father's days on the road as a musician

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about knowing little of his family heritage

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his father's career as a musician

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his mother and his parents' separation

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Louis Dinwiddie describes growing up in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about attending Catholic schools

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about playing football at Central Catholic High School in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his experiences attending Central Catholic High School in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his football scholarship to Central Catholic High School in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Louis Dinwiddie describes the influence of his football coach at Central Catholic High School

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his lack of role models or career aspirations during his youth

Tape: 1 Story: 16 - Louis Dinwiddie reflects upon being a high school sports star

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Louis Dinwiddie describes why he joined the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his experiences serving in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about working in a steel mill after being discharged from the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about being an insurance salesman and opening a retail store in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his experiences working for a clothing store in Fort Wayne, Indiana, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his experiences working for a clothing store in Fort Wayne, Indiana, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his motivation to him to open his own clothing store, "Louie D's"

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his clothing store, "Louie D's"

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about black businesses in Fort Wayne, Indiana during the 1970s

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Louis Dinwiddie describes closing his clothing store and entering the cable radio industry

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Louis Dinwiddie describes how he learned about the cable radio industry

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Louis Dinwiddie describes how he started his cable radio station

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Louis Dinwiddie describes the support his cable radio station received from the black community

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about boycotting one of his cable radio station's major advertisers, a Fort Wayne supermarket

Tape: 2 Story: 15 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his cable radio station's program lineup

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about moving from cable radio to FM radio

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Louis Dinwiddie describes the process of getting his FM radio station on the air, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Louis Dinwiddie describes the process of getting his FM radio station on the air, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about selling his FM radio station

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about the challenges of getting an urban radio station in a market like Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his FM radio station's community affairs programming

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Louis Dinwiddie comments on modern urban radio and well-known radio deejays

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his retirement

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Louis Dinwiddie shares his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Louis Dinwiddie reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Louis Dinwiddie describes his mother's pride

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about the semi-pro softball team his mother played on

Tape: 3 Story: 13 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 3 Story: 14 - Louis Dinwiddie talks about his family

Tape: 3 Story: 15 - Louis Dinwiddie narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$3

DAStory

8$2

DATitle
Louis Dinwiddie talks about his clothing store, "Louie D's"
Louis Dinwiddie describes the process of getting his FM radio station on the air, pt. 1
Transcript
Interesting--interesting enough, my store was the first store that brought pleated pants to Ft. Wayne, you know. None of the other stores had pleated pants. Well, we brought the bell bottoms in, when the bell bottoms--Harry Belafonte [HM] shirts and this type thing. It was a high-fashion type thing but we did--my business was unique. I set it up on the edge of the community. I didn't want to get in the black community. I didn't want white people to feel threatened or challenged coming into the black community to a store. I didn't want to set it too far out to make it inconvenient for black folks to get there so I set it right on the edge of the--of both communities. And did very well with that. Ninety percent of my business, Monday through Thursday, were my white clientele and Friday and Saturday, you know, the brothers were there. And so I did business just about every day and it was very successful.$$Okay, yeah, that's in 1970. What was the--I guess the bell bottoms were out then?$$Bell bottoms, yeah. Bell bottoms, the Harry Belafonte shirts, the balloon shirts, you know, with the open collar.$$(Simultaneous) (unclear).$$Platform shoes, polyester jumpsuits, big 'fros, you know, during that time, and we had it all. We had it all. You know, leather--yeah, we did it all. And I still--this is 1970, mind you. What's this, thirty, forty years.$$Yeah, yeah.$$Yeah. I still have people tell me they have some merchandise that I sold them, you know (laughter).$$Still have it?$$Yes, so what are you--don't wear it (laughter). Just hold onto it. It might be worth something some time. I don't think it's coming back, man. But, yeah, I still have people that tell me, says--and I've met people that--you know, I remember you, you know, my mom used to buy clothes for me when I's going to IU [Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana], you know. She'd come out, tell her I want my clothes from Louie D's, you know. A lot of times when I say, Louie Dinwiddie, "Louie D"? Yeah, I don't know the people, you know. But I had a lot--we had a lot of goodwill in the community, too, you know.$$Okay.$But one of the things, I think the intentions were right. My intentions were right in doing this. We had trouble with the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. The FCC [Federal Communications Commission] was cool in putting a tower up. We had to get the okay from the FCC. They tell you where to put your tower and the area where you can put it is on a, maybe a twenty, twenty-five square mile area where you can put your broadcasting tower. And so we found a place and the FCC approved it but the FAA would not approve it. And--but the FCC has jurisdiction of the FAA but bureaucratic red tape we--we were held up for a few months in which during this time days was money because we had--we had the license but we didn't have a stick. We didn't have a license, we had the okay that we would get it. And a friend of mine at WOWO, who was the general manager, told me that if anything he could do, to let him--let me--to tell him, let him know. And so one of my engineers asked me did I know anybody at WOWO. They had a tower out there that they wasn't utilizing and we could grandfather into being our tower.$$Yes, now just for the record, WOWO--$$Right--$$--it's a tremendously powerful AM station here in Ft. Wayne [Indiana] and you can pick up a car almost anywhere in the country.$$At one time, you could pick it up--$$WOWO radio--$$Right--$$At one time, anyway.$$Yeah, at one time, you could pick it up and overseas, also overseas. Fifty thousand watts, one of the last fifty thousand watters in the--in the country. They don't--you can't get that kind of animal any more.$$Okay.$$Now, that doesn't work there--$$What, do they dole those out? How did they (simultaneous) (unclear).$$Well, during the Second World War, I believe it was, that there wasn't that many radio stations in existence. So what they did, a few radio stations, they gave fifty thousand watts to so they could get out to areas other than their local area. For an example, maybe, maybe Iowa, did not have a station that could get out all over the--all over the state. In parts of Texas in, I believe, in Oklahoma, I know in Texas, they've got a hundred thousand watt station, you know. But, you know, again, they don't give them out any more because there's so many radio stations out there that are in existence now.$$Okay, so that's the reason. I often wondered why.$$Right.$$That was it. WLS in Chicago is a big hundred thousand watt.$$Yeah, right, and they're an extinct animal but, you know, a hundred thousand watt station is okay maybe for some national--you might be able to get some national spots out of it, you know, but usually radio station can take care of their market is--is--makes as much money as the station would. A ten thousand watt station can make as much money as a hundred thousand watt station because when your--when the ratings come out, they only rate you for your immediate area, you know. The stations in the Chicago area, they are in competition with each other, you know. They could care less who is listening in--in Milwaukee, you know, because the coverage doesn't mean anything, you know.