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Benjamin F. Davis, Jr.

Football player and entrepreneur Ben Davis was born on October 30, 1945 in Birmingham, Alabama to B. Frank and Sallye B. Davis. His sister is activist, author, and professor Angela Davis. He graduated at age fifteen from Fair Lawn High School in Fair Lawn, New Jersey in 1961, and attended Bridgton Academy in North Bridgton, Maine from 1961 to 1963. He received his B.A. degree in business education from Defiance College in Defiance, Ohio and was a running back and wide receiver for the Yellow Jackets football team. He led the team to an undefeated season (9-0) during his senior year and received honors as a Little All-American.

Davis was the 439th overall draft pick in the 1967 NFL Draft, selected by the Cleveland Browns as a defensive back in the seventeenth round. In his rookie season with the Browns, Davis led the league in punt returns, averaging 12.7 yards per return, including one fifty-two yard return for a touchdown. Davis also led the Browns in kickoff returns, with twenty-seven returns totaling 708 yards, including one sixty-three yard return in 1967. In 1968, he started as a cornerback, and led the team with eight interceptions. In 1968, he also led the NFL in interception return yards with 162, the third best in Browns’ history and he holds the record for seven consecutive games with an interception. That same year, he was named All Pro Defense Back by Sporting News. A torn anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) benched Davis for one and a half seasons from 1969 to 1970, but he started for the Browns for three more seasons from 1971 to 1973. He was traded to the Detroit Lions for a fifth-round draft pick in 1974, and played three more seasons for the Lions before retiring in 1977.

After retiring from a ten year NFL career, Davis joined the Xerox Corporation as a sales representative. In 1982, Davis co-founded and served as president of Telecable Broadcasting of America (TBA), a cable TV provider in the greater Cleveland area. TBA was one of the first African American owned and operated cable TV companies in the U.S. Davis started another cable TV company in Jefferson Township, a suburb of Dayton, Ohio, in 1986, which he later sold to the Centel Corporation. In 1989, Davis started a radio station in Tulsa, Oklahoma (94.1 FM) that he ran for five years, eventually selling the station to Shamrock Communications. In 1990, Davis created Britt Business Systems in Cleveland, Ohio which sold and serviced Xerox office equipment in Cleveland and surrounding suburbs. Davis operated Britt for seventeen years until his retirement in 2007.
 
Davis and his wife Sylvia have two adult children, Cecilie and Benjamin, III, and three grandchildren.

Ben Davis was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 26, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.191

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/25/2018

Last Name

Davis

Maker Category
Organizations
First Name

Ben

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

DAV43

Favorite Season

Spring, Early Summer

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Cape Cod

Favorite Quote

N/A

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Ohio

Birth Date

10/30/1945

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Cleveland

Favorite Food

Salmon over Lettuce

Short Description

Football player and entrepreneur Ben Davis (1945- ) played for the Cleveland Browns from 1967 to 1973 and the Detroit Lions from 1975 to 1976, before owning and operating Britt Business Systems, a retailer for the Xerox Corporation.

Favorite Color

Blue and Brown

Derrick Brooks

Football player Derrick Brooks was born on April 18, 1973 in Pensacola, Florida to Geraldine Brooks and John Brooks. Raised by his mother and stepfather, Arthur Mitchel, Brooks graduated from Pensacola’s Booker T. Washington High School in 1990, and enrolled at Florida State University (FSU) in Tallahassee. At FSU, he was a member of the 1993 Seminoles National Championship team. He was also a four-year letterman, a consensus first-team All-American his junior and senior years, a three-time first-team All-Atlantic Coast Conference selection from 1992 to 1994, and named two-time Consensus first-team All-American in 1993 and 1994, and Atlantic Coast Conference Defensive Player of the Year in 1993. Brooks received his B.S. degree in business communications from FSU in 1995, and his M.S. degree in business communications from Florida State University in 1999.

Brooks was selected by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the first round of the 1995 NFL Draft. During his fourteen year career with the Buccaneers, Brooks was an eleven-time Pro Bowl selection and nine-time All Pro. He was named NFL Defensive Player of the Year after the Buccaneers’ Super Bowl victory in 2002.  He recorded 2,198 tackles, the most in franchise history, along with eight defensive touchdowns, second highest in Buccaneers history. In 2009, Brooks was released from the Buccaneers, and was declared a free agent for the 2009 season. During that time, Brooks joined ESPN2’s First Take as an NFL analyst and signed with Sirius NFL Radio in 2009. In 2010, Brooks announced his retirement from the NFL and was elected to the 2000s All Decade Defensive Team. In 2011, he became the co-owner and president of the Tampa Bay Storm team of the Arena Football League. Brooks was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2014. In 2018, Brooks became a minority investor in the minor league baseball team, the Pensacola Blue Wahoos.

He founded Derrick Brooks Charities, Inc. in Pensacola in 1997, which worked to develop educational youth programs and opportunities in the Tampa Bay community. In partnership with Pro Football Hall of Famer Edward J. DeBartolo Jr., Brooks co-founded the Brooks-DeBartolo Collegiate High School in Tampa in 2005. Brooks received an honorary doctorate degree in human letters from St. Leo University, in St. Leo, Florida in 2006.

Brooks and his wife, Carol Brooks, have four children: Briana, Derrick Jr., Darius and Dania.

Derrick Brooks was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 12, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.181

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/12/2018

Last Name

Brooks

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Derrick

Birth City, State, Country

Pensacola

HM ID

BRO68

Favorite Season

Christmastime

State

Florida

Favorite Vacation Destination

Las Vegas, Nevada

Favorite Quote

Put God First In All You Do And Treat Others The Way You Want Them To Treat You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Florida

Birth Date

4/18/1973

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Tampa

Country

United States of America

Favorite Food

Pork Chops

Short Description

Derrick Brooks (1973 - )

Favorite Color

Blue

Mel Blount

Football player Mel Blount was born on April 10, 1948 in Vidalia, Georgia to Alice Sharpe Blount and James Blount. A natural athlete, Blount excelled in football, baseball and track at Lyons High School. He graduated in 1966, and received an athletic scholarship to attend Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. During his college years, Blount was named a Pro Scouts All-American as both a safety and cornerback. In the spring of 1970, Blount was drafted in the third round by the Pittsburg Steelers just months prior to earning his B.S. degree in physical education.

By his third year in the NFL, Blount was a starting cornerback for the Steelers. Known for utilizing the bump and run technique, Blount’s dominance as a player inspired the NFL to impose a rule that prohibited contact between defensive backs and receivers until the five yard line. The rule, which was later known as the Mel Blount Rule, was meant to slow Blount on the field and make gameplay more competitive. However, Blount made three Pro Bowls and earned first-team All Pro in 1981. He had 57 career interceptions for 736 yards, more than any player in Steelers history, with thirteen fumble recoveries. After retiring in 1983, Blount became the director of player relations for the NFL, serving until 1990. He also established The Mel Blount Youth Home in 1983, opening the first home in his hometown of Vidalia. Blount wrote the book The Cross Burns Brightly about the adversity and racism he faced in opening the second youth home in Washington County, Pennsylvania.

Blount is a four time Super Bowl champion, a four-time All-AFC selection, and was named All-Pro from 1975 to 1979 and in 1981. He was also named the NFL's most valuable defensive player in 1975 by the Associated Press. In 1989, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame as well as the Georgia Sports Hall of Fame in 1990 and the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame in 2012.

Blount has two daughters and five sons.

Blount was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on July 18, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.144

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/18/2018

Last Name

Blount

Maker Category
Middle Name

Carnell

Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Melvin

Birth City, State, Country

Tombs County

HM ID

BLO06

Favorite Season

Christmas

Sponsor

Laura & George Bilicic

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Vidalia, Georgia

Favorite Quote

You Never Arrive.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Pennsylvania

Birth Date

4/10/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Pittsburgh

Country

United States of America

Favorite Food

Grits

Short Description

Football player Mel Blount (1948 - )

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Blue

Doug Williams

Football player Doug Williams was born on August 9, 1955 in Zachary, Louisiana to Laura Williams and Robert Williams, Sr. He attended Chaneyville High School, where he began to show an interest in sports. Under the mentorship of his older brother, Robert Williams, Jr., Williams excelled in baseball. As a football player, Williams initially trained as a linebacker, but disliked the rough nature of the position until he was switched to playing quarterback. As a senior at Chaneyville High School, Williams threw for 1,180 yards and 22 touchdowns. He was recruited by Grambling State University in Grambling, Louisiana upon graduating in 1973, where he was mentored by legendary college football coach Eddie Robinson.

In 1978, Williams was drafted 17th overall in the NFL Draft by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, becoming the first African American quarterback to be picked in the first round. During his five years with the Buccaneers, he led the team to the playoffs three times. Williams chose to the leave the Buccaneers in 1983 to join the United States Football League. After the league ended in 1985, he was recruited by the Washington Redskins in the following year as a backup quarterback to Jay Schroeder. In the subsequent 1987 season, Williams replaced an injured Schroeder as the starting quarterback, leading the team to Super Bowl XXII. The Redskins defeated the Denver Broncos 42-10, and Williams was named MVP with 340 yards passing, and 18 of 29 completed passes. That same year, he founded the Doug Williams Foundation, which awarded more than a $100,000 in college scholarships in 1988. In 1989, Williams retired from the NFL, and went on to coach at several schools at the high school and college level, including Zachary’s Northeast High School, the U.S. Naval Academy, and Morehouse College. In 1998, Williams succeeded his former coach as the head coach at Grambling State University. He also served as personnel executive with his former NFL teams, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Washington Redskins. In 2017, Williams was named the senior vice president of player personnel with the Washington Redskins.

In recognition of his accomplishments as a quarterback, Williams was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2001, and into the Tampa Bay Buccaneers Ring of Honor and the Washington Redskins Ring of Fame in 2015.

Williams and his wife, Raunda Ashner Williams, have eight children.

Doug Williams was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 22, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.125

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/22/2018

Last Name

Williams

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Doug

Birth City, State, Country

Zachary

HM ID

WIL85

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Louisiana

Favorite Vacation Destination

Zachary, LA

Favorite Quote

Don't Look Back, They Might Be Gaining On You

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

8/9/1955

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Favorite Food

Red Beans, Rice and Cornbread

Short Description

Football player Doug Williams (1955 - ) was the first African American quarterback drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft, and the first African American starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as part of the 1988 Super Bowl XXII winning Washington Redskins.

Favorite Color

Black

John Randle

Football player John Randle was born on December 12, 1967 in Mumford, Texas. He received his B.S. degree in sociology in 1990 from Texas A&I University, in Kingsville, and played defensive lineman for the Javelinas football Division II championship winning team, receiving Little All-American honors.

The Minnesota Vikings invited Randle to training camp, and later signed him to a free agent contract in 1990. In 1991, Randle started in eight games with 8.5 sacks. In 1993, Randle was credited as one of the dominant defensive tackles of his era and went on to his first NFL Pro Bowl after recording 11.5 sacks. He ranked third in the NFL in sacks, with 9.5 through the Vikings' first 11 games in 1994. During this period, Randle recorded double-digit sacks including a career-high and league-leading 15.5 sacks in 1997. Named All Tackle Machine of 1999 by Tackle: The Magazine, he was chosen as starting tackle on the NFL Team of the Decade by the Pro Football Hall of Fame's Selection Committee in 2000. Randle recorded 8 sacks and 31 tackles from 2000 to 2001. Having become a free agent, Randle was released by the Vikings and signed a $25 million contract with the Seattle Seahawks in 2001. He achieved 11 sacks, and went on to the Pro Bowl in 2001. In 2003, Randle, after sustaining injuries the year before, led the Seahawks with 7 sacks in twelve games. That year, Randle acquired his final sack and then retired from professional football in 2004 tied with Richard Dent for the fifth in number of career sacks. His 137.5 career sacks remain the second highest total by a defensive tackle in NFL history, ranking below fellow Vikings legend Alan Page who had a total of 148.5 sacks. Over his career, he was named to seven Pro Bowl squads.

Randle was elected to the College Football Hall of Fame and inducted into the Minnesota Vikings Ring of Honor in 2008. He was voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, inducted into the Texas Sports Hall of Fame, and his number retired by his alma mater, Hearne High School team in 2010.

Randle has one daughter, Brittany, and he and his wife Candace, have twins, Ryann and Jonathan.

John Randle was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 18, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.123

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/18/2018

Last Name

Randle

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

John

Birth City, State, Country

Mumford

HM ID

RAN12

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

There are too many places to name.

Favorite Quote

I'm Outstanding

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Minnesota

Birth Date

12/12/1967

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Minneapolis/St. Paul

Favorite Food

Eggs and Bacon

Short Description

Football player John Randle (1967- ) a defensive lineman signed with the Minnesota Vikings in 1990 and the Seattle Seahawks in 2001, he retired in 2004, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2010.

Favorite Color

N/A

Art Lee Shell, Jr.

Football player and coach Art Shell was born on November 26, 1946 in Charleston, South Carolina to Art Shell Sr. and Gertrude Shell. Shell graduated from Bonds-Wilson High School in 1964, and earned his B.S. degree in industrial arts education from Maryland State University in Princess Anne, Maryland in 1968.

After graduating from Maryland State University, Shell was drafted by the American Football League to play offensive tackle for the Oakland Raiders. In 1977, Shell earned his first Super Bowl ring after the Oakland Raider’s victory against the Minnesota Vikings in Super Bowl XI. He then played in Super Bowl XV in 1981 in which the Oakland Raiders defeated the Philadelphia Eagles. Shell also competed in eight Pro Bowls, and was named to the AP First Team All-Pro in 1974 and 1977, and to the AP Second-Team All Pro in 1975 and 1978. He played a total of 207 games with the team from 1968 to 1982. After retiring as a player in 1983, Shell became an offensive line coach for the Los Angeles Raiders. In 1989, Shell was promoted to head coach of the Raiders, making him the first African American head coach in the National Football League in the modern era. Shell left the team in 1994, and became an offensive line coach for the Kansas City Chiefs in 1995; and from 1997 to 2000, he served as an offensive line coach for the Atlanta Falcons. Shell also served as a senior vice president in charge of football operations for the NFL, before returning to coach the Oakland Raiders for the 2006-2007 season.

Shell was included on the NFL’s 1970s All-Decade Team, and inducted into the South Carolina Sports Hall of Fame. He was also inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1989, and the College Football Hall of Fame in 2013. Shell was selected as NFL Coach of the Year in 1990. Sporting News ranked Shell as number fifty five on their list of the 100 greatest football players in 1999.

Shell and his wife, Janice Jeter Shell, have two children, Arthur Shell III and Christopher J. Shell.

Art Shell was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 7, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.034

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/7/2018

Last Name

Shell

Maker Category
Middle Name

Lee

Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Arthur

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

SHE06

Favorite Season

Christmas Holiday Season

Sponsor

Jeff Pash

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Family Homes

Favorite Quote

A Scared Man Can't Win.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

11/26/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Favorite Food

Red Beans & Rice

Short Description

Football player and coach Art Shell (1946 - ) played offensive tackle for the Oakland Raiders from 1968 to 198, and coached the Los Angeles Raiders from 1989 to 1994, making him the first African American NFL head coach of the modern era.

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Brown & Beige

Barry Sanders

Football player Barry Sanders was born on July 16, 1968 in Wichita, Kansas to William and Shirley Sanders. Sanders graduated from Wichita North High School in 1986. He earned a football scholarship to attend Oklahoma State University, where he remained until his junior year in 1988. That year, Sanders led the nation by averaging 7.6 yards per carry and over 200 yards per game, including rushing for over 300 yards in four games. He set college football season records with 2,628 yards rushing, 3,248 total yards, 234 points, 39 touchdowns, 37 rushing touchdowns, 5 consecutive 200 yard games, scored at least 2 touchdowns in 11 consecutive games, and 9 times he scored at least 3 touchdowns.

In 1989, Sanders was selected by the Detroit Lions as the third overall pick in the National Football League (NFL) Draft. Sanders began his career as the running back with the Detroit Lions in 1989. In 1991 and 1993, Sanders led the Lions to NFC Central division titles. In 1994, Sanders rushed for 1,883 yards, on a 5.7 yards per carry average. He also totaled 283 receiving yards. That season, he broke the NFL record for most rushing yards in a single game without scoring a touchdown with 237, and was named the NFL's Offensive Player of the Year. In 1995, Sanders posted 1,500 yards rushing with 398 receiving yards. In 1996, Sanders rushed for 1,553 yards with a career-low 147 receiving yards. In 1997, he became the third player to rush for over 2,000 yards in a season and was named the NFL’s Most Valuable Player. Sanders announced his retirement from professional football in 1999. During his career, Sanders led the Lions to the playoffs five times and amassed 15,269 rushing yards, 2,921 receiving yards, 99 rushing touchdowns, and ten receiving touchdowns. Sanders held the record for the most seasons with 1,500 or more rushing yards (ten seasons) and is ranked third on the all-time list of rushing yards, behind only Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton. In 2017, he returned to the Detroit Lions organization as a brand ambassador.

In 2003, Sanders published his autobiography, Barry Sanders: Now You See Him.

As a college athlete, Sanders was awarded the Maxwell Award, the Walter Camp Award, and the Heisman Trophy. He was also unanimously named an All-American. Upon entering the NFL, Sanders was named the Offensive Rookie of the Year. He was the recipient of the Bert Bell Award, and was named the NFL’s Most Valuable Player in 1997. Sanders was also named to the Pro Bowl during each of his ten seasons in the NFL. He was inducted into the Kansas Sports Hall of Fame in 1998 and, in 2004, was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Sanders’ number was retired by the Detroit Lions.

Sanders has four children: Barry James, Nigel, Nicholas, and Noah.

Barry Sanders was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 22, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.224

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/22/2017

Last Name

Sanders

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Barry

Birth City, State, Country

Witchita

HM ID

SAN07

Favorite Season

Fall

Sponsor

Laura and George Bilicic

State

Kansas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Florida - Between Orlando and Miami

Favorite Quote

...Few Escape Their Teens and Most Surrender to a Vague but Murderous Pressure of Adult Conformity.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Michigan

Birth Date

7/16/1968

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Detroit

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Mom's Sweet Potato Pie

Short Description

Football player Barry Sanders (1968- ) was a running back for the Detroit Lions from 1989 until 1998. He was awarded the Heisman Trophy in 1988, and was ranked third on the all-time list of rushing yards in the National Football League.

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

None

John B. Wooten

Football player John B. Wooten was born on December 5, 1936 in Riverview, Texas to Elmo Wooten and Henrietta Young. As a child, Wooten moved with his mother and siblings to Carlsbad, New Mexico. He graduated from Carlsbad High School in Carlsbad, New Mexico, and received his B.S. degree in education from the University of Colorado at Boulder in Boulder, Colorado in 1959. There, he became the second African American varsity football player in the university’s history, and as a senior, Wooten earned American Football Coaches Association All-America honors and was selected to play in the Chicago College All-Star Game.

After graduation, Wooten was selected in the fifth round in the 1959 National Football League Draft (NFL) as a defensive lineman by the Cleveland Browns. He played a total of 136 games for the Browns, and helped lead the team to their 1964 NFL Championship win against the Baltimore Colts. After nine seasons with the Cleveland Browns, Wooten played a single season with the Washington Redskins before he retired from professional football. In 1975, he became the director of professional scouting for the Dallas Cowboys, where he worked to make higher level coaching and staffing opportunities more equitable and accessible to African Americans. Wooten then joined the Philadelphia Eagles in 1992 as vice president of player personnel. He resigned from the Eagles organization and was hired by the Baltimore Ravens in 1998 as the team’s assistant director of pro and college scouting. Wooten was then appointed as chairman of the Fritz Pollard Alliance in 2003, where he worked to prevent racial discrimination in the NFL’s coach and personnel hiring processes. He also used his position as chairman of the Alliance to encourage harsher penalties and stricter guidelines against the use of offensive language on the field. As of 2017, Wooten was the president of Wooten Printing in Coppell, Texas.

Wooten was awarded and honored numerous times for his successful football career. He was named as the NFL’s Most Valuable Player in 1965; and, in 1979, was named as part of the Cleveland Browns All-Time All-Star Team. Wooten was also selected as a member of the University of Colorado’s All-Century Team. In 2010, he was inducted into the Cleveland Browns Ring of Honor, as well as the Browns’ Legends Program. Wooten was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2012.

Wooten has five children and five grandchildren.

John B. Wooten was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 13, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.162

Sex

Male

Interview Date

09/13/2017

Last Name

Wooten

Maker Category
Middle Name

B.

Occupation
Organizations
First Name

John

Birth City, State, Country

Riverview

HM ID

WOO13

Favorite Season

Football season

Sponsor

Jeff Pash

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

I'm blessed.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Texas

Birth Date

12/5/1936

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Dallas

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken wings

Short Description

Football player John B. Wooten (1936 - ) was a defensive lineman for the Cleveland Browns, winning the 1964 NFL Championship, and served as chairman of the Fritz-Pollard Alliance.

Employment

National Football League

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

None

Harry Carson

Football player Harry Carson was born on November 26, 1953 in Florence, South Carolina to Gladys Carson and Edgar Carson, Sr. He began playing football as a defensive end during his sophomore year at Wilson High School in Florence, where he also joined the Air Force Junior ROTC. In 1969, Carson transferred to the integrated McClenaghan High School, where he became a starting defensive end. Carson attended South Carolina State University in Orangeburg, South Carolina, where he was a four-year starter as a defensive lineman under Coach Willie Jeffries. Carson played a role in setting a college football record for the fewest points allowed in 1974. He graduated with his B.S. degree in education in 1976.

Carson was drafted by the New York Giants in the fourth round of the 1976 NFL draft. Under the tutelage of defensive coordinator Marty Schottenheimer, Carson was trained to play middle linebacker. He was named to the NFL’s All-Rookie Team in 1976, and selected to play in the Pro Bowl in 1978, the first of nine in his career. Under Bill Parcells, who became head coach in 1983, the Giants improved, making the playoffs in 1984 and 1985. During the 1986 season, the Giants led the league with a 14-2 record, and Carson served as team captain for the team during the Super Bowl XXI victory in 1987 against the Denver Broncos. Carson led the team in tackles for five years, and served as captain for ten years. He retired from professional football in 1988.

Carson was diagnosed with post-concussion syndrome in 1990, due to the head trauma sustained during his NFL career. He became a leading voice in speaking out for the rights and proper care of retired NFL players who suffer from diseases such as chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). He released his autobiography, Captain for Life in 2011, and appeared in the documentary League of Denial: The NFL's Concussion Crisis in 2013. He was also active in healthcare organizations like Meridian Neuroscience Health System Inc., the Congress of Neurological Surgeons, and the Aplastic Anemia Foundation. Carson was inducted to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006.

Harry Carson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 1, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.015

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/1/2016

Last Name

Carson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Holmes Elementary School

Wilson High School

McClenaghan High School

South Carolina State University

First Name

Harry

Birth City, State, Country

Florence

HM ID

CAR33

Favorite Season

Spring

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Hawaii, Antigua

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

11/26/1953

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken, Potato Salad

Short Description

Football player Harry Carson (1953 - ) played for the New York Giants for thirteen years. A nine time Pro Bowler and Super Bowl champion, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006.

Employment

New York Giants

CNN

MSG

ABC

Fritz-Pollard Alliance

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Harry Carson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Harry Carson lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Harry Carson describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Harry Carson describes his mother's career

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Harry Carson lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Harry Carson describes his relationship with his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Harry Carson describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Harry Carson recalls the impact of his mother's move to Newark, New Jersey

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Harry Carson remembers the lack of opportunity for African Americans in South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Harry Carson remembers his parents' marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Harry Carson describes his relationship with his father

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Harry Carson describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Harry Carson remembers Holmes Elementary School in Florence, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Harry Carson describes Wilson Junior High School in Florence, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Harry Carson describes his activities at Wilson High School in Florence, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Harry Carson recalls playing football at the Florence Boys Club of America

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Harry Carson recalls joining the football team at Wilson High School

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Harry Carson recalls his admiration of professional football players

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Harry Carson remembers playing football at Wilson High School

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Harry Carson recalls transferring to McClenaghan High School in Florence, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Harry Carson remembers racial discrimination in Florence, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Harry Carson describes his experiences at McClenaghan High School

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Harry Carson recalls the integrated football team at McClenaghan High School

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Harry Carson recalls leading a boycott of football practice at McClenaghan High School

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Harry Carson remembers his high school girlfriend

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Harry Carson recalls quitting the football team at McClenaghan High School

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Harry Carson recalls his decision to attend South Carolina State College in Orangeburg, South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Harry Carson recalls playing for Coach Willie Jeffries

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Harry Carson recalls his football teammates at South Carolina State College

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Harry Carson describes the defensive prowess of his college team

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Harry Carson describes his academic accomplishments at South Carolina State College

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Harry Carson recalls being scouted by the National Football League

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Harry Carson recalls being drafted by the New York Giants

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Harry Carson describes his transition to middle linebacker

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Harry Carson recalls his first National Football League training camp

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Harry Carson recalls his rookie season with the New York Giants

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Harry Carson describes the traits of a successful football player

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Harry Carson talks about his rookie contract with the New York Giants

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Harry Carson describes the birth of his daughter, Aja Carson-Gurley

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Harry Carson remembers becoming a Pro Bowl linebacker

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Harry Carson remembers his influences as a middle linebacker

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Harry Carson recalls playing against the Pittsburgh Steelers

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Harry Carson talks about amphetamine use in the National Football League

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Harry Carson remembers middle linebacker Willie Lanier

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Harry Carson recalls his knee injury

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Harry Carson recalls his clinical depression

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Harry Carson remembers his New York Giants teammate Lawrence Taylor

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Harry Carson remembers the 1982 National Football League season

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Harry Carson remembers John Riggins of the Washington Redskins

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Harry Carson recalls the death of his former teammate, Doug Kotar

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Harry Carson describes the severe injuries in the National Football League

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Harry Carson recalls playing for Coach Bill Parcells on the New York Giants

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Harry Carson remembers suffering from post-concussion syndrome

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Harry Carson describes his offseason job at Grumman Aerospace Corporation

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Harry Carson recalls a play against the San Francisco 49ers

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Harry Carson remembers creating the Gatorade shower tradition

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Harry Carson recalls the New York Giants' dinners at Beefsteak Charlie's

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Harry Carson remembers qualifying for Super Bowl XXI

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Harry Carson recalls winning Super Bowl XXI with the New York Giants

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Harry Carson remembers the season after his Super Bowl championship

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Harry Carson remembers being involved in a drug testing controversy

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Harry Carson reflects upon his relationship with Coach Bill Parcells

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Harry Carson recalls becoming a football commentator

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Harry Carson reflects upon his relationship with the New York Giants

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Harry Carson remembers his rejection from the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Harry Carson recalls learning about chronic traumatic encephalopathy

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Harry Carson talks about former football players with brain trauma

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Harry Carson describes the National Football League's response to traumatic brain injuries

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Harry Carson talks about raising awareness of traumatic brain injuries in football

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Harry Carson reflects upon the future of the National Football League

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Harry Carson reflects upon his election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Harry Carson describes his hopes for the African American community

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Harry Carson talks about his family

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Harry Carson describes his work with the Fritz Pollard Alliance

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Harry Carson reflects upon his legacy and how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Harry Carson narrates his photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Harry Carson narrates his photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

7$8

DAStory

9$2

DATitle
Harry Carson remembers creating the Gatorade shower tradition
Harry Carson remembers qualifying for Super Bowl XXI
Transcript
Eighty-five [1985], the Giants [New York Giants] are, under Bill Parcells, are getting better. They're winning games and one of your teammates, Jim Burt, the nose tackle, invents a new way to celebrate.$$I don't know if he invented it. We've gotten some pushback from the Chicago Bears, and they said that they invented it. But, I think it was a Monday when Parcells--we had just won a game and Parcells went to Jim Burt and he said, "You know, that Jeff Bostic, you better watch him, Jim. You know, he's going to have you for lunch." And Parcells is the master manipulator and he just kept riding Jim Burt all during the course of the week. And, you know, Jim is getting himself ready to play, we go into the game, and he keeps asking me, "Is everything okay?" 'Cause he's my protector, you know, with the center. Is, you know, "Is the guy getting off on you?" I said, "No, everything is good, Jim." So, he's playing his rear end off, and so as the game is winding down, Jim comes to me and he says, "You know, that Parcells is such a prick." And he said, "Oh, he makes me mad. We should get him with something." I said, "What do you mean, we should get him?" He said, "You know, you're Parcells' boy. You know, he loves you. I'm just the guy who if I do something to him, you know, he's gonna have my ass." I said, "Well, Jim, what do you think you want to do?" He said, "Let's get him with the Gatorade." And I said, "The Gatorade?" He said, "Yeah, let's douse him with the Gatorade." And so he said, you know, "I just want to get him." I said, "Jim, I'll do it with you." He said, you know, "He won't bother you but, you know, he might say something to me." And so as time was winding down, I said, "Don't do anything until he takes his headset off because I don't want him to be electrocuted just in case." And so as time was winding down, you know, we're behind him and he takes his headset off, and then we get him with the Gatorade. And so when we got him, nobody really saw it because, you know, it was a one-time thing, it was in the '85 [1985] season and, you know, that was it. And so we sort of moved on. But that was the one time that it happened during the eighty--'85 [1985] season for us. Now, if you ask the Bears, they would say that they did it maybe a year or two prior to that on Ditka [Mike Ditka] (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) I don't remember. You know, I--$$Yeah.$$I was in Chicago [Illinois] then. I watched the Bears on Sunday.$$Yeah.$$I don't remember--I think Parcells was the first coach I saw doused.$$Yeah.$$Now, they may--maybe they're right.$$Yeah.$$But, I remember Parcells--$$Yeah.$$--you know.$$Well, I'm not gonna argue with them--$$Yeah.$$--because, you know, it doesn't make any difference between who did it. But the point that you're getting to is, we did it all through the '86 [1986] season, and it really started because we--obviously, we lost to the Bears in the playoffs, and it was a painful experience and everybody thought--you know, we all thought that we were better than the Bears, but we just didn't bring it and we didn't show it on the field. And so, we came back to training camp and we were all committed. We were all in, you know, in terms of getting to the Super Bowl the next year. And so, we had some issues with different players, contract situations and so forth. And so, starting the season off, we go to Dallas [Texas] and we lose to Dallas [Dallas Cowboys] in Dallas. And then we started getting hate mail from some fans who said that we'll never amount to anything because we got too many niggers on the team and the white guys are no different, they're a bunch of jerkoffs and blah, blah. So, it was somebody who was--hated the team and then hated everybody on the team.$$But they sent the mail to you, right?$$Yeah, they sent the mail to me. And so the next game, we played the San Diego Chargers, and San Diego the previous week had just beaten the Miami Dolphins, like fifty-five to ten, something like that. And so we go into the game and we're playing and we wound up beating the Chargers at home. And so we were so overjoyed that we wanted to celebrate. And so I thought, get him with the Gatorade. We did it last year, let's get him with the Gatorade. And once I got him, and he was totally surprised 'cause he didn't think it was coming again, but once I got him, it became a routine because I had to keep--as long as we won, you had to keep doing it. And he's a (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yeah, there's a superstition--$$He's a creature of habit--yeah.$$Yeah.$$I mean, if you do something one week and if it works, you have to keep doing it. And so it wasn't so much that I wanted to do it, I had to keep doing it because of the whole superstition thing with him.$You mentioned before, the Bears [Chicago Bears] won in '85 [1985], and you all were--you all had a great season in '86 [1986], and this is--so, you had been playing eleven years by this time? Is that--$$Yeah.$$Eleven years, right. And--well, tell us about the Super Bowl and--Super Bowl XXI, yeah.$$Well, you know, to--yeah, I can tell you about the Super Bowl but, you know, all of that season, we sort of knew that we were gonna go to the Super Bowl 'cause we knew what we had to do. We had that much confidence. And so we went through the whole football season. We lost the first game and then another game in Seattle [Seattle Seahawks] during the course of the year, and it was good for us to lose that game in Seattle 'cause it kept us on track and kept us focused. The remainder of the year, we beat people into submission, and we knew that in order for us to achieve our goal, we had to really play our best. And so I felt really bad for some of the teams that we played because we were really physical and we just beat the crap out of them physically. And then we made the playoffs, played San Francisco [San Francisco 49ers]. They had been our nemesis for a number of years. And then we played the Washington Redskins. Obviously, we had a relationship with Washington; that was the third game that we were playing them. But those games were at our place, and it was so important to have home field advantage. And then we won, became NFC [National Football Conference] champs, and then had to go to California to play in Super Bowl XXI. And that really was the fulfillment of a dream for all of us as players because we'd worked so hard to get to that point. And, you know, it was about making the most of that opportunity.$$This is at the Rose Bowl at Pasadena [California], right?$$Yeah, um-hm, at the Rose Bowl and, you know, you run into the stadium, you're being introduced, and for me, you know, there are a lot of things that are going through my mind, especially those early teams when the team wasn't very good and I'm thinking that I wish some of those players who were a part of those teams could be there. And in a way, I felt like we were representing all of those guys who had played over the years and never made it to the Super Bowl like Brad Van Pelt and Brian Kelley. So, it was exciting to run into the Rose Bowl and see a sea of blue and orange, and to see the blimps and the planes flying overhead with the banners and, you know, it's the biggest game that you could ever play in. And, I'm thinking that first day stepping on the football field and quitting, and I'm thinking about quitting in high school [McClenaghan High School, Florence, South Carolina], and I'm thinking about South Carolina State [South Carolina State College; South Carolina State University, Orangeburg, South Carolina], and here I am; I'm playing in the Super Bowl. So, you know, there are a multitude of things that are going through my mind as we take the field and it's--you know, people ask, "What does it feel like playing in the Super Bowl?" And I say, "It's like walking on the moon." You have to experience it to truly understand what it's all about. You can't, can't really describe it.$$There's so much enthusiasm. There's millions of television viewers. Everything that you do in the game is gonna be scrutinized. And you're playing the Denver Broncos, who were led by young John Elway, who had just defeated the Cleveland Browns again with a miracle play at the end of--'cause I'm a Browns fan. I know about it. The fumble this time instead of the drive.$$Yeah.$$But, here the Denver Broncos are in the Super Bowl.$$Well, you know, we knew Denver and we knew that they were a threat any time they stepped on the field. Elway had a strong arm and they had a really good running attack, they had a very good defense, and we had to rise to the occasion. Defensively, I felt like we could hang with them. Offensively, I wasn't quite sure. I didn't expect Phil Simms to have the game that he had (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) And he had one of his best games.$$Yeah, yeah.

Gale Sayers

NFL Hall of Famer Gale Eugene Sayers was born on May 30, 1943, in Wichita, Kansas. Sayers grew up in Omaha, Nebraska and graduated from Omaha Central High School. As a running back at the University of Kansas, he was a two-time All-American player known as "The Kansas Comet." In 1963, he set an NCAA Division I record with a 99-yard run against Nebraska.

Sayers was drafted in 1965 by the Chicago Bears and remained with the team for his entire NFL career. He was the unanimous choice for NFL Rookie of the Year in 1965. He was named the MVP of the 1967, 1968 and 1970 Pro Bowl Games, and he was named to the 75th Anniversary All Time NFL Team. Sayers was inducted into the Black Sports Hall of Fame in 1975, the NFL Hall of Fame in 1977, and the Chicago Sports Hall of Fame in 1980. In July 2000, he was named to the NFL All-Time Millennium Team.

After completing his professional football career in 1971, Sayers returned to the University of Kansas to receive his B.A. degree in physical education while also working as the assistant athletic director. Sayers accepted the assignment as assistant director of the Williams Education Fund for three years and received his M.A. degree in educational administration. Sayers served as athletic director at Southern Illinois University from 1976 to 1981.

Sayers moved back to Chicago and launched a sports marketing and public relations firm, Sayers and Sayers Enterprises. He then started a computer supplies business in 1984 and built that business into a provider of technology products and services. In 1999, Sayers was inducted into another Hall of Fame - the Chicago Entrepreneurship Hall of Fame. He is also a recipient of the prestigious Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award.

Sayers spends a great deal of time supporting and fundraising for a variety of charitable organizations including the Better Boys Foundation, the Cradle Adoption Agency, the Gale Sayers Center, Grid Iron Greats, Junior Achievement, and Wesley House. The University of Kansas has established the Gale Sayers Microcomputer Center in recognition of Sayers’s commitment to both education and technology. Sayers has authored an instructional publication on the fundamentals of football's offensive strategies called Offensive Football. In addition, his 1971 autobiography, I Am Third, was produced into an award-winning television movie, Brian's Song, starring James Caan and Billy Dee Williams. In 2007, he released a new book, Gale Sayers, My Life and Times.

Sayers serves on the board of directors at American Century Mutual Funds, located in Kansas City, Missouri.

Accession Number

A2008.124

Sex

Male

Interview Date

11/5/2008 |and| 11/24/2008

Last Name

Sayers

Maker Category
Schools

Omaha Central High School

University of Kansas

Howard Kennedy Elementary School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Gale

Birth City, State, Country

Wichita

HM ID

SAY01

Favorite Season

Christmas

Sponsor

Allstate

State

Kansas

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

As You Prepare To Play, You Must Prepare To Quit.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

5/30/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Entrepreneur and football player Gale Sayers (1943 - ) was drafted by the Chicago Bears and was named rookie of the year in 1965, then Pro Bowl MVP in 1967, 1968 and 1970. He was inducted into the NFL: Hall of Fame in 1977. He served as athletic director at Southern Illinois University, then founded Sayers and Sayers Enterprises in Chicago. His 1971 autobiography, 'I Am Third,' was produced into an award-winning television movie, 'Brian's Song.'

Employment

Chicago Bears

Southern Illinois University

Sayers 40, Inc.

Main Sponsor
Main Sponsor URL
Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Gale Sayers' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Gale Sayers lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Gale Sayers describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Gale Sayers describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Gale Sayers describes his parents' personalities

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Gale Sayers describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Gale Sayers recalls his early education

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Gale Sayers remembers moving to Omaha, Nebraska

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Gale Sayers describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Gale Sayers remembers his introduction to football

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Gale Sayers recalls his early football teammates

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Gale Sayers describes Omaha Central High School in Omaha, Nebraska

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Gale Sayers remembers his early aspirations and mentors

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Gale Sayers recalls playing football at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, Kansas

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Gale Sayers talks about college football players' training

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Gale Sayers remembers his community at the University of Kansas

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Gale Sayers recalls being drafted into professional football

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Gale Sayers remembers playing for the Chicago Bears

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Gale Sayers remembers Coach George Halas

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Gale Sayers talks about his teammates on the Chicago Bears

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Gale Sayers describes his accomplishments with the Chicago Bears

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Gale Sayers remembers playing in the Pro Bowl

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Gale Sayers describes his community in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Gale Sayers describes the impact of his knee injuries on his football career

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Gale Sayers recalls his retirement from the National Football League

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Gale Sayers talks about his decision not to become a football coach

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Gale Sayers remembers Brian Piccolo

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Gale Sayers recalls the racial discrimination on the Chicago Bears team

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Gale Sayers talks about the football stadiums in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Gale Sayers talks about his friendship with Brian Piccolo

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Gale Sayers recalls winning the Comeback Player of the Year award

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Gale Sayers describes his retirement from professional football

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Gale Sayers recalls earning a master's degree at the University of Kansas

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Gale Sayers talks about 'Brian's Song'

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Gale Sayers describes his relationship with the Chicago Bears' fans

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Gale Sayers recalls his athletic directorship at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Gale Sayers describes his computer hardware supply company

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Gale Sayers describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Gale Sayers talks about today's professional athletes

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Gale Sayers reflects upon his life

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Gale Sayers talks about his family

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Gale Sayers describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

2$2

DATape

5$4

DAStory

4$2

DATitle
Gale Sayers describes his computer hardware supply company
Gale Sayers recalls the racial discrimination on the Chicago Bears team
Transcript
And so I decided to leave Southern Illinois [Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Illinois], and I moved back to Chicago [Illinois] in 1983 and started my business [Sayers Group LLC]. And I was looking for a field of the future. And I took a look at a couple opportunities in insurance and automobile dealerships. And my partner and I, we decided on computers. So, we chose computers.$$Okay. Now the computer industry was just, especially the personal computer industry (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yeah.$$--was just jumping off.$$Just now starting up, that's right.$$The Macintosh, and the SEs [Macintosh SE], and then--$$Yeah.$$--the IBM [International Business Machines Corporation] desk machines with the little green screens and stuff.$$Yeah. IBM, Compaq [Compaq Computer Corporation], you know--$$Yeah.$$But you know, as you said, they were just coming up. And we started out in supplies--ribbons and diskettes and mag tape and computer paper, and things like that. And as we grew our business, our customers would ask us, you know, "If you can sell us ribbons, why can't you sell us printers? And if you can sell us diskettes, why can't you sell us computers?" So, that's when we got into the hardware side of the business. And when we would--we sold all the tier one manufacturers--IBM, Compaq, HP [Hewlett-Packard Company], Apple [Apple Inc.], Sun [Sun Microsystems, Inc.], and all those people. Whenever we got a manufacturer, an IBM, they would come in and train a lot of people. Compaq would come in and train a lot of people. So that's when we got--we got to know about the computer. And, you know, and so then after we got into the hardware side of it, somebody's got to fix them. We got into the service side of it, you know, and so that's what we do today. We do it all. We fix them. We--our niche is the Fortune 500 companies around the country. That's who we sell our products to--Allstate Insurance [Allstate Corporation], Blue Cross Blue Shield [Blue Cross Blue Shield Association], people like that. And we have offices in Chicago, Boston [Massachusetts], Florida, and a small office in Nashville, Tennessee. And so, you know, things are going well.$$Okay, okay. Well, you say you started providing servicers at one time and then the networks, too, you know?$$Yes. And all that has led, you know, to computers. And you know, if a company wants to put together a network and things like that, we have people to come in and help them decide what type of network they want to go with. We can do that.$$Okay. Do have a favorite computer between the Apple and the PC [personal computer]?$$Not, not really. You know, Apple, they make good stuff, you know. But I have a Hewlett-Packard laptop, you know, and I got a Hewlett-Packard machine at home at my desk, you know. So, but they all are great machines, whether it's IBM, whether it's Compaq, whether it's, you know, Lenovo [Lenovo Group Ltd.]--whatever the, you know, whoever it may be. You know, they're all about the same right today.$$Okay. So I can't get you in any trouble by (laughter)--$$No, no trouble.$$All right, okay.$$We sell them all (laughter).$$All right, okay.$$Yeah.$$So, now as you've been into sports retirement--$$Uh-huh.$$And as you're a success in the business world--I mean, are you still like pulled back into sports from time to time to make commentary and that sort of thing?$$Uh-huh.$$So that's been like another, almost like another business, right, in some--?$$Well, it's, it has been maybe. But, you know, computers is what I do most of the time, 95 percent of the time. Yes, I do some speaking some engagements and things like that, but that's my business, what I do. And on the sidelines, if somebody at the station wants me to talk about the Bears [Chicago Bears], or if they want me to go to a game and then commentate on the football, I will do things like that. But that's very, very small, to what I do with my computer company.$$Okay. Where do you see your company going in terms of growth in the next ten years?$$Oh, well, the next ten years, that's too far out to even talk about. When you got an economy like we got today, we don't even, I don't even think about ten years from now. I'm thinking about what's going to happen three months from now, or two years from now. Because President Obama [HistoryMaker President Barack Obama], he's going to have a tough, tough, road to travel, you know. I think he could really be, he's going to do a great job, but some of the things that he promised people, it's going to be two years from now or three years from now (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) It's gonna be hard to deliver to folks--$$To deliver them. Because, you know, this economy, we have to do something too with this economy. And if we don't get this right, you know, we're going to--we're in trouble, we're in real trouble.$Before then, what you're saying--just to be clear, is that before that the room assignments were basically racial. The black--$$For the--$$--players were together, and the white players--?$$For the most part, it was. Because back then, all, many, 99 percent of the black players lived on the South Side of Chicago [Illinois]. The white players, the North Side of Chicago. And we would ride in a car together to practice. And so when they said, "Who do you want to room with?" "Oh, I want to room with George Seals. I ride to practice with him every day." Or, "I want to room with Dick Gordon, or Jimmy Jones." And so many of the black players, most of them, at that time most of them roomed together. Because (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) So, yeah. So what we're also saying is that the demographics of the city, the segregation that already existed in the city, determined association in your neighborhood in a lot of ways.$$No question about it, yes, it did. Because again, we, you know, we got the housing people and that's the way they shifted us, right to the South Side of Chicago. And we didn't think anything of it. Because, hey, you know, if you're a good football player or baseball player or basketball player, you know, the people in the neighborhood knew you, and they enjoyed, you know, what you did. So, we didn't have a problem with that. But when George Halas decided to room by position, you know, people thought that was, you know, a big deal. But it wasn't a big deal to him, because he was trying to get the best out of his players [on the Chicago Bears] and making sure that, you know, "Do you know your assignments?" and things like that. And it worked out well for us. And when people saw that Brian [Brian Piccolo] and I were rooming together, "Why are y'all rooming together? You know, this is the first time ever for this." Is it? I didn't know. Brian didn't know. You know, so it wasn't no big deal to us. But a lot of people made a big deal of it.$$Okay, okay. So when you traveled on the road, you know, you all shared the same room?$$Yes.$$On the road and stuff?$$Uh-huh.$$You didn't share the same room in town, though, did you?$$Oh, no, no, no. Because, you know, me and Brian--he lived southwest, and I lived south. And a lot of the other players lived north. And no, we would drive our cars down to Wrigley Field [Chicago, Illinois], and so it wasn't a problem. Then when we'd go on a road trip, hey, we'd room together.