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Jacqueline Copeland

Anthropologist Jacqueline Copeland was born on April 12, 1962 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to James and Willette Copeland. She attended Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. and received her B.A. degree in literature from its School of Arts and Sciences with an African Studies Certification from its School of Foreign Service. Copeland went on to receive her M.C.P. degree in city and regional planning from the University of Pennsylvania School of Design in 1990, and her M.A. degree in cultural anthropology from the University of Pennsylvania School of Arts and Sciences in 1991. In 2000, Copeland received her Ph.D. degree in cultural anthropology from the University of Pennsylvania specializing in Africa and South Asia.

From 1991 to 1995, Copeland worked as the program vice president for The Philadelphia Foundation. In 2000, she was appointed the first national managing director and vice president of Philanthropic Services at U.S. Bank Private Client Group. In 2006, she founded Copeland Carson & Associates, an international community investment practice, specializing in support to nonprofits, foundations, and social entrepreneurs. She has worked with the Ford Foundation, McKnight Foundation, U.S. Department of HUD, PEW and Global Fund for Women. In 2008, Copeland also conducted the initial research and program design for the My Brothers Keeper project, later adopted by the Obama Administration and Foundation as a signature initiative.

Then, in 2011, Copeland founded the Pan-African Women's Philanthropy Network (PAWPNet). She also founded Black Philanthropy Month, officially held in August and recognized by the United Nations. Additionally, in 2011, Copeland became the first executive director at the African Women’s Development Fund USA. In 2015, Copeland was named chief operations officer at Catholic Charities of Santa Clara County (CCSCC).  In 2017, Copeland led the CCSCC team that collaborated with tech start-up, Senior Growth, to create an award-winning e-health application, MyWellBeing.  As of August 2018, Copeland became chief operating officer of the Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology, a social enterprise promoting diverse women’s leadership in technology throughout the U.S. and worldwide.

In 2004 Copeland wrote her first book titled Creating Africa in America: Translocal Identity in an Emerging World City. In 2012 she co-authored Applying Anthropology in the Global Village with Christina Wasson and Mary Butler.  Her Evaluation Anthropology, co-authored with Mary Butler in 2005, is recognized as helping to create a new subfield in cross-cultural evaluation.  Noted for documenting African diaspora giving, in 2014, she published African Immigrant Innovations in 21st Century Giving with co-authors Mojubaolu Olufunke Okome and Una Okonkwo Osili.

Since 2011, Copeland has been a featured Huffington Post blogger, writing about black philanthropy, women’s issues, technology and futurism. Copeland was a Bush Foundation Fellow and in 2013, she received the Hero for Health Award, awarded for her dedication and commitment to the social justice field and outstanding achievements in the areas of leadership and research. She is a sought after keynote speaker and trainer on multicultural issues in philanthropy, health, evaluation, technology and human rights.

Jacqueline Copeland was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 30, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.210

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/30/2017

Last Name

Copeland

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

University of Pennsylvania

Georgetown University

Philadelphia High School for Girls

First Name

Jacqueline

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

COP02

Favorite Season

Winter In California

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

No Favorite Because I Love The World

Favorite Quote

I Am Because You Are

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

4/12/1962

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Bay Area/San Francisco

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pan-African Cuisine

Short Description

Anthropologist Jacqueline Copeland (1962 - ) served as vice president of the Philadelphia Foundation, founded PAWPNet and Black Philanthropy Month, as well as helped design President Barack Obama’s My Brother’s Keeper Initiative.

Employment

Catholic Charities

African Women's Development Fund

Copeland Carson and Associates

U.S. Bank

Favorite Color

Variations of Red

Allison Davis

Lawyer Allison Davis was born on August 31, 1939, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Elizabeth Stubbs Davis and Dr. William Allison Davis. Davis attended the Cushing Academy in Ashburnham, Massachusetts, and the University of Chicago Laboratory School in Chicago, Illinois, before graduating from Hyde Park High School in Chicago, Illinois. He received his B.A. degree from Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa, and his J.D. degree from Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois in 1964.

After graduating from law school, Davis and his wife moved to Mali, where he worked for the U.S. Agency for International Development coordinating smallpox eradication efforts and vocational training for three years. After returning to Chicago in 1967, Davis accepted a legal position at the Metropolitan Housing and Planning Council. In 1969, Davis helped co-found the Chicago Council of Lawyers, a group focused on electing judges based on a merit system. In 1971, Davis co-founded Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland law firm in Chicago, focused on civil rights litigation. The firm hired Carol Moseley Braun, who went on to become the first African American female U.S. Senator and Barack Obama as a recent graduate of Harvard Law School. In 1986, Davis was appointed to the Chicago Public Building Commission by Mayor Harold Washington. Davis was then appointed by Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley in 1991 to the Chicago Plan Commission. In 1996, he gave up his full-time law practice and founded The Davis Group, and later, New Kenwood LLC, development and financial planning firms. Davis later served on the Illinois State Board of Investment in 2003. Davis also consulted on the 2003 film, The Human Stain.

Davis has served as a member of The Blue Ribbon Committee to Reform the Office of The Recorder of Deeds of Cook County, and served for eighteen years on the Committee on Character and Fitness of the Supreme Court of Illinois. He served as a Director of RREEF America II for eleven years and was the director of the NAACP Legal Defense & Educational Fund.

Davis and his wife, Susan, have two sons: Jared and Cullen.

Allison Davis was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on January 27, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.011

Sex

Male

Interview Date

01/27/2017

Last Name

Davis

Maker Category
Occupation
Schools

Austin O. Sexton Elementary School

University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

Hyde Park Academy High School

Grinnell College

Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law

First Name

Allison

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

DAV40

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

You Can't Be Too Paranoid.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

8/31/1939

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Harold's Fried Chicken

Short Description

Lawyer Allison Davis (1939- ) co-founded the firm of Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland in 1971, that employed Barack Obama as a graduate of Harvard Law School, and The Davis Group in 1996.

Employment

U.S. Department of State

The Davis Group

Favorite Color

Shades of Blue

Jimmy Heath

Musician and jazz composer Jimmy Heath was born on October 25, 1926 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Arlethia and Percy Heath Sr. He attended Walter George Smith School in South Philadelphia and graduated from Williston Industrial School in Wilmington North Carolina in 1943.

As a teenager, Heath took music lessons and played the alto saxophone in the high school marching band. He also played in a jazz band called the Melody Barons and toured with the Calvin Todd Band in 1945, before joining a dance band in Omaha, Nebraska led by Nat Towles. Heath later formed his own big band, including John Coltrane, Specs Wright and Nelson Boyd. He also recorded with trumpeter Howard McGhee, who called him “Little Bird” because of his affinity to Charlie Parker. In 1948, McGhee took Heath and his older brother Percy to Paris, France for the First International Jazz Festival headlined by Coleman Hawkins and including Erroll Garner.

In 1949, he recorded his first big band arrangement on Gil Fuller Orchestra’s Bebop Boys. Dizzy Gillespie then hired Heath to play in his band with Coltrane and Specs Wright. In 1952, Heath switched to Tenor sax and played with the Symphony Sid All Stars, featuring Miles Davis, J.J. Johnson, Milt Jackson, Kenny Clarke and his brother Percy. In 1953, Heath recorded his composition C.T.A with Miles Davis and another with J.J. Johnson which included Clifford Brown.

In 1959, Heath rejoined Miles Davis and made his debut album for Riverside Records called The Thumper followed by Really Big in 1960, The Quota in 1962, and Triple Threat in 1963. Heath recorded eight more albums as a leader. In 1975, he formed the Heath Brothers, with his two brothers, Percy and Albert “Tootie” Heath and Stanley Cowell, and recorded albums Live At The Public Theater on CBS for which they received a Grammy nomination, As We Were Saying and Endurance released in 2010.

In 1987, Heath became a professor of music at the Aaron Copland School Of Music at Queens College. There, he premiered his first symphonic work, Three Ears with Maurice Peress. In 2010, Heath’s autobiography was published by Temple University Press, I Walked With Giants, and it was voted “Best Book of The Year” by the Jazz Journalist Association. Heath recorded three big band records, Little Man Big Band produced by Bill Cosby, Turn Up The Heath and Togetherness live at the Blue Note. Vocalist Roberta Gambarini recorded twelve Heath songs for the album, Connecting Spirits.

Heath received a Life Achievement Award from the Jazz Foundation of America and the 2003 American Jazz Master Award from the National Endowment for the Arts. He was nominated for three Grammy Awards and has received three honorary doctorate degrees. He was also the first jazz musician to receive an honorary doctorate in music from the Juilliard School in New York.

Heath has one son, James Mtume, from a previous relationship and two children with his wife, Mona Heath; their daughter, Roslyn Heath and their son, Jeffrey Heath.

Jimmy Heath was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 9, 2016 and January 17, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.002

Sex

Male

Interview Date

01/17/2017

Last Name

Heath

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Edward

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Walter George Smith School

Williston Middle School of Math, Science & Technology

First Name

Jimmy

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

HEA01

Favorite Season

Birthday

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Bahamas

Favorite Quote

Life Is Music And Music Is Life.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

10/25/1926

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Favorite Food

Salmon

Short Description

Musician and jazz composer Jimmy Heath (1926 - ) was known for his jazz and bebop contributions, notably his pieces “C.T.A.” and “Gingerbread Boy,” and as a member of the Heath Brothers. He was the first jazz musician to receive an honorary doctorate in music from the Juilliard School in New York.

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:9720,179:10440,190:19100,219:32886,370:33238,375:42253,480:45800,511:46120,516:61610,721:68484,778:83910,954:84630,965:85800,990:93165,1082:96890,1156:97716,1173:114308,1315:123870,1407:128406,1483:128946,1489:135910,1545:136834,1598:152671,1749:160049,1886:162280,1925:162765,1931:180886,2326:181462,2333:199700,2553:200210,2560:200720,2567:202250,2591:202675,2597:203780,2611:211078,2729:214048,2773:214808,2786:220660,2884$0,0:230,4:1980,46:3520,78:7230,195:7510,200:13344,282:15494,340:18684,396:28004,499:35491,652:48244,804:63525,993:63825,1010:66160,1026:68272,1048:70672,1086:78640,1165:79979,1179:87794,1215:97364,1328:100016,1409:100874,1422:105440,1449:111341,1530:121240,1659:130850,1794
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Jimmy Heath's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Jimmy Heath lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Jimmy Heath describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Jimmy Heath describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Jimmy Heath talks about his paternal uncle Willie Johnson

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Jimmy Heath remembers his father, Percy Heath, Sr.

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Jimmy Heath talks about his step grandfather's business in Wilmington, North Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Jimmy Heath recalls his family's church involvement

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Jimmy Heath talks about his sister, Elizabeth Heath Reid

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Jimmy Heath describes his brother, Percy Heath, Jr.

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Jimmy Heath recalls the musical career of his brother Albert "Tootie" Heath

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Jimmy Heath talks about other popular musical families

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Jimmy Heath describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Jimmy Heath talks about his brother Percy Heath, Jr.'s musical education

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Jimmy Heath describes his family's involvement in music

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Jimmy Heath remembers living between Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and Wilmington, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Jimmy Heath recalls his decision to play the saxophone

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Jimmy Heath remembers his early musical experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Jimmy Heath recalls attending Williston High School in Wilmington, North Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Jimmy Heath describes the differences between swing and bebop music, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Jimmy Heath describes the differences between swing and bebop music, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Jimmy Heath remembers hearing Charlie Parker's and Dizzy Gillespie's music for the first time

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Jimmy Heath talks about playing with John Coltrane and Charlie Parker

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Jimmy Heath recalls organizing a benefit concert for Mary Etta Jordan

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Jimmy Heath talks about his son James Mtume

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Jimmy Heath remembers playing in Dizzy Gillespie's band

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Jimmy Heath recalls the jazz community in his early career

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Jimmy Heath describes Dizzy Gillespie's personality

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Jimmy Heath remembers saxophonist John Coltrane

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Jimmy Heath talks about John Coltrane's music and the spirituality of jazz

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Jimmy Heath remembers composer Sun Ra

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Jimmy Heath talks about drummer Specs Wright

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Jimmy Heath talks about the reaction to bebop music in the South

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Jimmy Heath reflects upon the lack of institutional support for jazz in the United States, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Jimmy Heath reflects upon the lack of institutional support for jazz in the United States, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Jimmy Heath recalls the start of his heroin addiction

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Jimmy Heath remembers being convicted of selling heroin

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Jimmy Heath talks about the impacts of heroin on the jazz community, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Jimmy Heath talks about the impacts of heroin on the jazz community, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Jimmy Heath talks about recovering from heroin addiction while incarcerated

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Jimmy Heath remembers recording with Columbia Records

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Jimmy Heath talks about his marriage to Mona Brown Heath

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Jimmy Heath recalls recording with Riverside Records

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Jimmy Heath remembers Miles Davis

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Jimmy Heath talks about playing modal jazz with Miles Davis

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Jimmy Heath describes his album 'Really Big!'

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Jimmy Heath talks about the range of wind instruments used in jazz

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Jimmy Heath talks about moving to New York City in 1964

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$3

DAStory

4$8

DATitle
Jimmy Heath talks about playing with John Coltrane and Charlie Parker
Jimmy Heath recalls the jazz community in his early career
Transcript
Now did you form a big band yourself at some point (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Yes.$$Okay.$$When I came home, back home from Nat Towles, I had copied a couple of arrangements from their book; and I had, I wanted to start a big band of my own in Philadelphia [Pennsylvania] and I did that around 1947.$$Okay.$$And I was fortunate enough, Coltrane [John Coltrane] had just come out of the [U.S.] Navy with a friend, another friend of mine, they were in the Navy together, named Bill Massey, a trumpeter. And Bill introduced me to Coltrane and I asked John, I said, "Man, I got a big band, man, would you play, would you consider playing?" He said, "Yeah." So he played in my big band and that's what this picture is about from 1947 with me conducting the band and Trane is between me and Charlie Parker. Charlie Parker is sitting in with my band. And he had used my horn the whole week, Charlie Parker used my horn in the Downbeat club with Miles Davis, Max Roach, and his band, the quintet. And I asked him would he play this concert with my big band and Bird said yes, he would do it. And he did it. And between myself and Coltrane is, I mean, between Bird and myself is Coltrane with a cigarette looking at Charlie Parker like this (gesture). And I was very honored to have Bird playing my horn for a week, his was in the pawnshop. And to, to, I used to give it when I was teaching at Queens College [Queens, New York], I would give a copy of it, this same photo that shows that Trane is in complete awe of Charlie Parker--$$Now, this is (simultaneous)--$$--(simultaneous) as we all were. 'Cause a lot of young kids they come up in the college and say, "Oh, Coltrane, Coltrane, Coltrane." I say well, why is he looking at Bird like that (gesture)? 'Cause he's, (laughter) 'cause Charlie Parker was doing some of that stuff he learned to do before he did it.$$Yeah, so this is, I mean, anyway, just thinking about this is (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) And that's why I wrote the book, 'I Walked With Giants' ['I Walked With Giants: The Autobiography of Jimmy Heath,' Jimmy Heath and Joseph McLaren].$$Yeah.$$'Cause I'm around Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, man.$$Well--$$I met Duke [Duke Ellington] once, but Pops [Pops Foster], Louis Armstrong, and all these people, I walked with giants.$$So you're twenty years old but, you know, Coltrane is just kind of starting out.$$No, he was twenty, we're the same--$$Okay. Yeah.$$He's a month older than me. September the 23rd, I'm October the 25th of '26 [1926].$$Yeah, but, okay. You're twenty years old and you got a group that includes John Coltrane who you're the same age but you got like, you--$$Benny Golson.$$--Charlie Parker is sitting in your, in your group--$$Sitting in with my band.$$And he's playing gigs with Miles Davis and--?$$His band.$$His--$$He's playing at the Downbeat club in Philadelphia.$One thing I didn't ask you about, and there's reference in the research here, that a lot of the musicians, when they would come to town [Philadelphia, Pennsylvania] they, you would bring them to your house?$$Yes.$$Okay.$$Yeah. My mother [Arlethia Wall Heath] would, well, well, my mother and father [Percy Heath, Sr.] were so in love with music, they would allow us to bring any, you know, we'd bring a whole band down there and mom would fix some food. So we brought Dizzy's band, that's when he first told me, he said, "Man," I say, "Dizzy [Dizzy Gillespie], I want to write." He said, "Man, if you want to learn how to write you gotta get to the keyboard, you know." And I, that was about four or five members of his band and they came to the house. I had the whole Horace Silver band, I had the whole Yusef Lateef band. I would invite everybody. Charlie Parker, (unclear) invited him down to my house, you know, my mother was in tune with that.$$It, it seems, and while I know it's true that, that, that there's a, like being a creative musician puts you in a, almost like a fraternity; right?$$Well, you know, it was different in those days because the professionals were not snobs and they weren't ego maniacs. I call them Ego Stravinskys.$$(Laughter).$$They weren't Ego Stravinskys. They would tell you anything that they knew so they were the teachers, mentors. We didn't have it in all the colleges and universities so we learned from our predecessors and that's the way we did. And they were, were humble and they gave us whatever they had learned, they'd give it to us. You know, they didn't charge us nothing, you ain't gotta go to no classroom and all, if they knew something they'd show you. It was a, a brotherhood thing, fraternity, or whatever you want to call it.

The Honorable Roger L. Gregory

Judge Roger L. Gregory was born on July 17, 1953 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, but raised in Petersburg, Virginia. He graduated from Petersburg High School in 1971, and enrolled at Virginia State University, where he graduated summa cum laude in 1975, and earned his J.D. degree from the University of Michigan Law School in 1978.

In 1978, Gregory became the first African American attorney at the law firm of Butzel, Long, Gust, Klein & Van Zile in Detroit. In 1980, he joined the Richmond law firm of Hunton & Williams LLP. Gregory was nominated by President Bill Clinton to be the first African American judge on the Richmond-based U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, but the Senate refused to hold Gregory’s confirmation hearing. He was then nominated by President George W. Bush and confirmed in 2001. In 2014, he joined the majority opinion on Bostic v. Schaefer, which overturned Virginia’s ban on same-sex marriage. Also that year, Gregory authored the court’s unanimous opinion on King v. Burwell, which upheld tax subsidies for health insurance purchased on federal exchanges under the Affordable Care Act. In 2016, Gregory became the first African American chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.

Gregory has served on numerous boards, including: Richmond Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce, Richmond Arts Council, Virginia State University Foundation, Richmond Bar Association, and Central Virginia Legal Aid Society. He served as president of the Friends Association for Children and the Black History Museum and Cultural Center of Virginia. Gregory was chairman of the Industrial Development Authority of Richmond and the executive committee of Richmond Renaissance. Gregory also sat on the board of ChildFund International and served on the board of the Virginia Historical Society.
He serves as trustee emeritus on the Board of Trustees at the University of Richmond. He serves on the Junior Board of Directors of the John Marshall Foundation. He is a member of the American Bar Association and was keynote speaker for the opening assembly at the 2005 ABA annual meeting in Chicago. He is a member of the National Bar Association and the Old Dominion Bar Association of which Gregory is a past president. He is a member of the State Bar of Michigan and Virginia.

He was the recipient of many awards, including the 1997 National Conference of Christians and Jews Humanitarian Award. He was featured in Ebony magazine as one of the “56 Most Intriguing Blacks of 2001.” In 2002, he received the Pioneer Visionary Award from the National Black Student Leadership Development Conference. In 2003, Judge Gregory received the Dominion Resources Strong Men and Women: Excellence in Leadership Award. Gregory was also awarded the Old Dominion Bar Association’s L. Douglas Wilder Vangard Award. He was also awarded the National Bar Association’s Gertrude E. Rush and Equal Justice Awards, and the Thurgood Marshall Award of Excellence. In 2015, he received the Washington Bar Association’s Charles Hamilton Houston Merit Medallion.

Roger L. Gregory was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 9, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.102

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/9/2016

Last Name

Gregory

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

L.

Occupation
Schools

Virginia Avenue Elementary School

Peabody High School

Petersburg High School

Virginia State University

University of Michigan Law School

First Name

Roger

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

GRE16

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Beaches

Favorite Quote

Is The Currency Reason Or Power?

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Virginia

Birth Date

7/17/1953

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Richmond

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Judge Roger L. Gregory (1953 - ) was appointed to serve as a judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit in 2001, becoming the first African American chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit in 2016.

Employment

United States Court of Appeals

Wilder, Gregory & Associates

Hunton & Williams

Butzel, Long, Gust, Klein & Van Zile

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
177,0:6626,141:6978,146:17098,433:23572,523:26744,655:32476,752:35486,841:54992,1363:70486,1584:82670,1902:85970,1984:105495,2226:108779,2264:116888,2378:131220,2639:141040,2860:143248,2947:147470,2992:149585,3012:155153,3117:158656,3192:161029,3223:180109,3501:181558,3540:181834,3545:182110,3571:204796,3931:235534,4326:235990,4331:248530,4634:252292,4695:264391,4987:265348,5000:271612,5184:277739,5272:278540,5282:315122,5733:327960,5913:337750,5972:342890,6363$0,0:8882,279:33359,622:52901,913:53356,919:54266,930:58972,1002:61996,1049:79650,1300:80658,1314:81078,1320:81498,1326:82086,1335:83850,1397:103080,1710:105750,1727:106235,1733:115935,1908:143231,2189:145011,2261:146613,2299:151464,2335:173074,2659:184108,2813:187452,2886:190416,2957:190796,2963:191936,2980:193228,3016:209468,3231:212306,3304:218544,3359:232600,3583
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Roger L. Gregory's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his mother's career

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his father's career

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his father's career as a gospel singer

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his likeness to his parents

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his adoption

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers growing up in the Heights of Petersburg, Virginia, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about the events of the Civil War in Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls the civil rights history of Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers growing up in the Heights of Petersburg, Virginia, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers Virginia Avenue Elementary School in Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his early exposure to the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes the history of Peabody High School in Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his activities at Peabody High School in Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about the famous residents of Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers his teachers at Peabody High School in Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his experiences at Virginia State College in Petersburg, Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his transition to the University of Michigan Law School in Ann Arbor, Michigan

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his experiences at the University of Michigan Law School

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his internships during law school

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his start as a litigator

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers his undergraduate courses with L. Douglas Wilder

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his transition to Hunton and Williams LLP

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his first marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 15 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his cases at Hunton and Williams LLP

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about the law firm of Wilder and Gregory

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about L. Douglas Wilder's political career

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his appointment to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers presiding over United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his citations in U.S. Supreme Court opinions

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his involvement in theater

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about the public opinion of lawyers

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers the Brown v. Board of Education 50th Anniversary Commission

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers Oliver W. Hill and Reverend Dr. Wyatt Tee Walker

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his decision of Bostic v. Schaefer

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his views on police brutality, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his views on police brutality, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory shares his advice for improving the criminal justice system

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his judicial philosophy

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his opinion on King v. Burwell

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory remembers the death of his first wife

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his appointment as chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory reflects upon his life

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about his children

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable Roger L. Gregory narrates his photographs

DASession

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DATitle
The Honorable Roger L. Gregory talks about the law firm of Wilder and Gregory
The Honorable Roger L. Gregory recalls his decision of Bostic v. Schaefer
Transcript
When you joined Douglas Wilder [HistoryMaker L. Douglas Wilder], he, was he just by myself?$$Yeah, he was by himself, yeah he was by, he had been sharing office in the same building with somebody. He was by himself, he had--1982, when he came and formed together, formed the firm of Wilder and Gregory in 1982, yeah.$$Yeah, so he was operating in the old style--black lawyer--$$Yeah, the old style, yeah he had his--$$Always had to have his shingle up.$$That's right.$$People would come see him, talking about my boy's in trouble, see if you can help him and--$$Exactly.$$Or, you know, insurance company's trying to cheat me, see if you can help me, you know, all that kind of stuff.$$Oh, that's right, that's the kind of price we had and--$$Yeah.$$I love it, you know, people--you had to really produce. It wasn't about the--you couldn't just read your resume (unclear), "Well, I went to the University of Michigan Law School [Ann Arbor, Michigan] and I worked for Hunton and Williams [Hunton and Williams LLP, Richmond, Virginia] and Butzel Long [Butzel, Long, Gust, Klein and Van Zile; Butzel Long]." Yeah, okay but can you handle this matter. I love that, and you had to produce and you had to really show what you could do. So it was, it was, it was good. And Governor Wilder, he was--then senator, he was awesome trial lawyer. I--his timing and just quick mind, I learned--we used to tried cases together, he was just awesome.$$Okay, all right. So he brings you in as a partner. And what was your plan? What was, what was Doug Wilder's plan--$$Well--$$--for you to be part of his--what were you going to work on?$$Well, you know, you know, he was in the Senate [Senate of Virginia] then, and the whole idea was, you know, he had some idea of what value I could bring to the table. And then fortunately he trusted that I could help build upon and (unclear)--institutionalize it for the first time. I think it helped him to see what he might have be able to do beyond just as an individual lawyer but a firm, an institution. And we did, the two of us practiced and then we had hired an associate. And we built up and when we finished, we had eleven lawyers and we did bond work and all kinds of work. So we grew and took that opportunity but we still did the core things, like you talk about when, you know, the mom and dad and junior's in trouble or we need this. We were the firm that could answer those needs and do it at the highest level. And then we--only difference was in our view, was we're just smaller. But we didn't take a back seat to anybody in terms of confidence and ability and that's what I learned from him and that confidence and competence, yeah.$$Um-hm, okay. So he was in the state senate even then (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) He was in the state senate and he would--$$Yeah.$$--at the end of the day, I loved that we would come back and he would talk about the day. And the senate floor and the politics and his, and just his comprehensive knowledge, he's the quintessential statesman. Not only a politician but a statesman, in terms of understanding the needs of people and addressing what really makes the difference and how to make the political process work for the better good. The common weal, as they say it, and the commonwealth. And that's what he, he dedicated his public service to it. And a, had a high sense of duty and public service, modeled by him.$$Okay, all right. So now did you help in his campaigns when--$$No, I helped by this, that I always say that I want to make sure that my priority was that I do nothing to dishonor and hurt his opportunity. So my job was to keep the home front going, matter of fact, when he ran for lieutenant governor, his headquarters was in our law firm. So I lived and breathed it every day. So, but, no, you know, and my job was to keep the firm going. And he was--as lieutenant governor, you know, he would, he could still practice law, so his mind was, he was right on target, he knew what was going on, he tried cases, so it was a wonderful partnership. And, you know, and we never signed a document, it was by handshake and understanding, yeah. Now it's been unheard of to be able to do something like that. But that's the kind of ilk of a, of person that he was and still is.$$Okay, okay. So for--before your first appointment as judge, you like, you were working with Douglas Wilder for--$$Oh, yeah, it was from--$$--basically (simultaneous)--$$--(simultaneous) from 1982 all the way up to 19--well, 2000--$$--to 2001, that's like twe- twenty years.$$To 2000, yeah. Long, yeah, it's a long--$$You had a twenty years so--$$Long time.$$--so what are the cases, some of the cases that you all dealt with that you dealt with--$$Oh, yeah, well, we--$$--during that period of time (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) We dealt with a lot of (makes sound)--I tried murder cases, double homicide cases. We--I did--and what we did was, we can, we be--we're fortunate to be an American Bar Association demonstration project. People like [HistoryMaker] Dennis Archer, who's the first black president of the American Bar and then Robert Grey [Robert J. Grey, Jr.], who's the second black, they helped us get into that. And we could show it so we started getting corporate clients nationally. So we did work for Ford Motor Company and did some work for General Motors [General Motors Corporation; General Motors Company] and other, and, so we did defense work for insurance companies so we broadened our footprint. But we still did the old school criminal defense work too. And we did bond work, so I loved it, it was a great pra- we had eleven lawyers. (Mumbles) one of the largest African American owned, at the time, firms in Virginia. And it was wonderful, some bright lawyers we got people who worked at the firm who are now judges. And I'm so proud that it wasn't--and that's where the point about institutionalizing. The firm is still in existence, it's called Harrell and Chambliss [Harrell and Chambliss LLP]. But that's the firm and so proud that that's still going on. It wasn't just--'cause, you know, success is seized having a plan of succession and them taking the ball running and gone further on, and I'm very proud of them so, yeah we were able to, thank God, to do something that was significant and still goes on as a legacy.$So we talked about Bostic versus Schaefer [Bostic v. Schaefer, 2014], right?$$Um-hm.$$The same sex marriage--$$(Nods head).$$But was there a lot of, you know, it's been said that the black church is one of the most unprogressive on this subject of any of the institutions in the black community. And it's probably a place where you're going to, you're going to visibly see a lot of gay people doing things in the church.$$Well, you know, yeah, you know, yeah it's--as a judge, you know, I (laughter), I don't really get to com- comment on that but, you know, I think, you know--$$Okay.$$--preachers that have their, have your faith in what there is. But, you know, as the, as the law in construing it, I mean I found the case to be not very compliment, not very complicated on the law after Lawrence [Lawrence v. Texas, 2003], when the [U.S.] Supreme Court said that matters of sexual encounters and intimacies among consenting adults can't be banned, so once that, 'cause that--I thought it was the moral traditions was the longest and strongest issue that states said, "We can ban it." But once that's no longer the case it came to be dis- discrimination in terms of how could that be legally deprived by based on who they loved. So from a legal standpoint, but I think people have very strong religious and moral views about it which, you know, because--and I remember sitting in my office before the argument, I could hear people chanting on one side versus the other. But I thought how wonderful it is to live in a country where people can voice their views one way or the other but, yet in an ordered fashion. I'd be going in a few minutes in a court of law and deciding the case and in an ordered fashion, and not being disturbed by the slogans of the time or whatever but by being drawn to what the law--and interpret it as best you could--the [U.S.] Constitution. So, you know, it's--it does speak to freedom of ideas and thought, but the law had prevailed, so it was quite a moment (unclear) cases.$$Okay. Is it, is there ever a time when you feel that the sacred and the secular are clashing too much or there's a--$$No.$$--there's a--$$I don't think and I think we all comes with our backgrounds and construct, you know, you know the--I'm a Christian and I, yeah and I have very strong faith and also, not but, and also I'm a, I'm a judge. And if it comes to the point there's anything that my view in that regard is so overwhelming that it surmounts my interpretation (unclear) of the law, then I shouldn't sit and cannot sit on that. 'Cause you take an oath to be impartial and that's what the job is. Like I have death cases, but my personal views of the death penalty is of no moment, the question is was there constitutional error. And if it was, then the writ should be granted, you know. And, but if isn't then, the writ is not, you know. So, you know, it's looking at the law but certainly, you know, you wear the hat as a human being, and I got three daughters, I'm a father and a husband. It's like everybody else but it's that the obligation to look at the law and judge it fairly. That's why justice is blindfolded because she's saying that I'm not looking at who's before me, where they're from, their ethnicity or gender or whatever. But I'm only interested in what is the weight of the evidence. And the side that wins the one under the law and the facts have the weight of the evidence and the preponderance of the standard and that's who prevails. But not who I visually see and connect with or would want it to be in my personal view.

Jerry Pinkney

Illustrator Jerry Pinkney was born on December 22, 1939 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Willie Mae and James H. Pinkney. Pinkney began drawing when he was four years old and, though he was gifted with creating art, he struggled with undiagnosed dyslexia throughout his childhood, high school, and college years. In 1957, he graduated from Murrell Dobbins Vocational School in Philadelphia and received a full scholarship to attend Philadelphia College of Art. After two and a half years, Pinkney left college to marry and start a family with his wife, Gloria Jean.

Pinkney worked briefly as a flower delivery truck driver in Philadelphia before relocating to Boston, Massachusetts, where he joined the Rust Craft Greeting Card Company. In Boston, Pinkney also joined the Boston Action Group, and developed friendships with artists of color. In 1962, he began working for Barker-Black, a design and illustration studio. Pinkney illustrated his first children’s book, The Adventures of Spider: West African Folk Tales, by Joyce Cooper Arkhurst in 1964. In 1971, he opened Jerry Pinkney Studio in Croton-on-Hudson, New York. Pinkney illustrated over 100 books, including: Song of the Trees (1975) by Mildred D. Taylor, Mary McLeod Bethune (1977) by Eloise Greenfield, The Covenant (1980) by James A. Michener, The Talking Eggs (1989) by Robert D. San Souci, Back Home (1992) by Gloria Jean Pinkney, The Jungle Book (1995) by Rudyard Kipling, and Tales of Uncle Remus (1987), Sam and the Tigers (1996), Black Cowboy, Wild Horses (1998) and The Old African (2005) by Julius Lester.

Pinkney served in a number of educational capacities, including as associate professor of illustration at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, New York from 1986 to 1988, as associate professor of art at University of Delaware in Newark, Delaware from 1988 to 1992 and as visiting professor at State University of New York-Buffalo in 1991. Between 2003 and 2009, Pinkney served on the National Council of the Arts. His work was featured in multiple group and solo exhibitions throughout the United States as well as in Japan, Italy, Russia, Taiwan and Jamaica. Pinkney also contributed to numerous Caldecott Honor books, and was the first African American recipient of the Caldecott Medal for his illustrative retelling of the Aesop’s fable The Lion & the Mouse in 2009.

Pinkney and his wife, Gloria Jean, have four children.

Jerry Pinkney was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on October 26, 2016 and January 30, 2017.

Accession Number

A2016.106

Sex

Male

Interview Date

10/26/2016 |and| 1/30/2017

Last Name

Pinkney

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

L.P. Hill Elementary School

Murrell Dobbins Career and Technical Education High School

University of the Arts

First Name

Jerry

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

PIN08

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Jamaica and Cape Cod, North Truro

Favorite Quote

Treat triumph and tragedy the same.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

12/22/1939

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fruit, apples and pears.

Short Description

Illustrator Jerry Pinkney (1939 - ) illustrated over 100 books since the mid-1960s, and was the first African American recipient of the Caldecott Medal for his illustrated retelling of the Aesop’s fable The Lion & the Mouse in 2009.

Employment

Rust Craft Greeting Card Company

Barker Black Studios

Various

Jerry Pinkney Studios

Pratt Institute

University of Delaware

Favorite Color

Red

Penfield W. Tate III

Lawyer and state government official Penfield W. Tate III was born on May 19, 1956 to Ellen Mildred Tate and Penfield W. Tate II. Tate grew up on military bases while his father served in the U.S. Army. His family eventually settled in Boulder, Colorado, where Tate’s father became the city’s first African American city councilman and mayor. Tate earned his B.A. degree in sociology at Colorado State University in Fort Collins, Colorado in 1978, and his J.D. degree from Antioch School of Law in Washington, D.C. in 1981.

Upon graduation from law school, Tate obtained a position as a trade regulation attorney with the Denver Regional Office of the Federal Trade Commission. In 1984, Tate left the Federal Trade Commission and joined the law firm of Trimble, Tate & Nulan, founded by his father seven years earlier. He became a partner with the firm in 1988. In 1990, Tate returned to public service in an administrative role at Denver Mayor Federico Peña’s office, but rejoined Trimble, Tate & Nulan in 1991 once Mayor Pena’s term ended. The following year, he and his father founded the law firm of Tate & Tate, P.C. Shortly after founding the new firm, Tate took a leave of absence to become executive director of the Colorado Department of Administration. In 1994, he was elected to the vice chairmanship of the Colorado Democratic Party, which he resigned in 1996 during his successful run for Colorado State House. The following year, he was elected to the the Colorado State House of Representatives, representing the 8th District. In 2000, Tate was elected to serve the 33rd District in the Colorado State Senate. In 2003, he resigned from this position to run for Mayor of Denver, but was defeated. He returned to public finance law practice, and joined the law firm of Kutak Rock in 2015, where he represented public entities, lenders, and underwriters engaged in financing essential public improvements, and advised local and state governments. He was also a frequent panelist on the political talk show Colorado Inside Out.

Tate has served as a trustee of the Colorado Children’s Chorale and on the board of Denver Water, the Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce, and the Colorado Housing and Finance Authority. He was named the 2004 Father of the Year by the National Father’s Day Coalition and the American Diabetes Association.

Penfield W. Tate III was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 25, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.062

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/26/2016

Last Name

Tate

Maker Category
Middle Name

W.

Schools

Colorado State University

Antioch School of Law

Boulder High School

Charles S. Deneen Elementary School

University Hill Elementary School

First Name

Penfield

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

TAT04

Favorite Season

Autumn

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Grand Cayman

Favorite Quote

The World Is Run By Those Who Show Up.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Colorado

Birth Date

5/19/1956

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Denver

Country

United States

Favorite Food

BBQ Ribs

Short Description

State government official Penfield W. Tate III (1956 - ) founded the law firm of Tate & Tate before serving as a leader of the Colorado Democratic Party, a Colorado State Senator, and a Colorado State Representative.

Employment

Federal Trade Commission

Trimble, Tate and Nulan, P. C.

Office of the Mayor of Denver

Tate & Tate, P.C.

Colorado Department of Administration

Colorado State Senate

Colorado House of Representatives

Kutak Rock

Trimble, Tate and Nulan, P.C.

Favorite Color

Purple

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Penfield W. Tate III's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about the origins of his name

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Penfield W. Tate III describes how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about where his father attended law school

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers his father's mayoral campaign in Boulder, Colorado

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his father's political career

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his parent's personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about handling his father's notoriety as mayor of Boulder, Colorado

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers living in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III recalls living in Germany

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about experiencing racism while attending school in Germany

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Penfield W. Tate III describes the discrimination on U.S. military bases

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Penfield W. Tate III reflects upon his upbringing on military bases

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his community in Boulder, Colorado

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Penfield W. Tate III shares his early career aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his experience at University Hill Intermediate School in Boulder, Colorado

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about the role of religion in his upbringing

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers attending Boulder High School in Boulder, Colorado

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his decision to attend Colorado State University in Fort Collins, Colorado

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his father's role as a human rights executive

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Penfield W. Tate III recalls his decision to pursue a career in law

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his experience at Colorado State University in Fort Collins, Colorado

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Penfield W. Tate III recalls his experience at the Antioch School of Law in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers being hired at the Federal Trade Commission in Denver, Colorado

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his work with the Federal Trade Commission

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Penfield W. Tate III describes the importance of regulations

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers joining Trimble, Tate, Nulan, Evans and Holden P.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his experience working with his father

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about a memorable case

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers his work with Denver Mayor Federico Pena

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers the inauguration of Wellington Webb as mayor of Denver, Colorado

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his daughter, Elleana Tate

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers his position as executive director of Colorado Department of Personnel and Administration

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his work with the Democratic Party

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers being elected to the Colorado House of Representatives

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about the restructuring of his law firm, Trimble, Tate, Nulan, Evans and Holden P.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Penfield W. Tate III reflects upon his efforts in the Colorado House of Representatives

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his legislative work with ownership of medical records in Colorado

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Penfield W. Tate III recalls his advocacy for the LGBT community

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Penfield W. Tate III describes the influence of religion on state politics in Colorado

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about the legalization of marijuana in Colorado

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Penfield W. Tate III describes the development of the marijuana industry in Colorado

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his role in the Colorado State Senate

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III recalls his decision to run for mayor of Denver, Colorado

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers his mayoral bid in Denver, Colorado

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his role in the Denver Board of Water Commissioners

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about water distribution and supply in Colorado

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Penfield W. Tate III remembers joining Kutak Rock LLP

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about his political commentary

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Penfield W. Tate III shares his thoughts on potential future political endeavors

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about the 2016 Presidential Election

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Penfield W. Tate III describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about third party candidates

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - Penfield W. Tate III talks about the fate of immigrants protected under the DREAM Act

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Penfield W. Tate III reflects upon his time growing up in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Penfield W. Tate III describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Penfield W. Tate III narrates his photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Penfield W. Tate III narrates his photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

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DAStory

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DATitle
Penfield W. Tate III talks about his legislative work with ownership of medical records in Colorado
Penfield W. Tate III describes his role in the Denver Board of Water Commissioners
Transcript
But, as I look at my legislative career probably the most rewarding bill I carried was one that was brought to me by a number of constituents. A number of my constituents including one of my personal friends came to me and asked me to carry a bill dealing with medical records. And the law in Colorado at the time was if you are a patient you were entitled to get copies of your medical records from a hospital or a medical provider, but they had the right to and own the original records, which when you think about it you may think that's okay, but the way the law was being interpreted is that included things like X rays and most importantly mammograms. And the, the group of constituents who came to me were all women who were breast cancer survivors, and that struck a chord with me because by that time my mother [Ellen Cooper Tate] had become a breast cancer survivor. She had been detected with breast cancer. She went through radiation and chemo and treatment, and she had to come to Denver [Colorado] for her treatment. She couldn't receive it in Boulder [Colorado], so she would catch the bus every day during the treatment times. I watched her lose her hair. I watched her fingernails and toenails turn black. I watched her lose a lot of weight, but, but she survived it. And what the ladies told me was that when you take a mammogram you have the original film and it's your baseline and so when you do successive mammograms they always compla- compare this year's to your baseline to see if anything has changed. And what was happening is health care providers in Colorado, if women changed jobs or health insurance weren't giving them their original mammograms. They would give them copies, but the copies were so poor that the, the new treating physician couldn't read them and couldn't compare them to see if there was a problem. So, I passed a law and it was passed on a bipartisan basis. Actually it was a piece of legislation and when I ran it and Republicans, particularly Republican women, saw what the state of the law was they got outraged. And when the Colorado medical association [Colorado Medical Society] rose up to object to my bill, they got even further incensed and so I passed the legislation and what we did was we made a change that said if you are a patient and you want your original records no matter what they are you're, the treating entity whether it's a hospital or clinic or doctor has to give you your records. Now you have to pay for them to make a set of copies, but you own your original records and you can walk out the door with them. And, and the two things we gave was you have to pay for the records and the other thing, and then I thought it was fair was if you're a patient and you demand your original records and you get them, if you lose them, damage them, destroy them, you can't go after the provider who gave you your records, and, and I thought that was fair. No one should be able to file a claim against a doctor saying I lost my records in a fire, I'm suing you because the records should have shown something. No, if you take responsibility for getting your records, you're completely responsible for them. So, that was probably the, the piece of legislation that was the most rewarding for me.$Now in 2005 you were appointed by John Hickenlooper to the Denver water board [Denver Board of Water Commissioners], which sounds like a torture (laughter), but it's not, it's not that right (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) (Laughter) No it's not that kind of water boarding. And, and Denver [Colorado] is interesting you know people, you'll hear a saying out west that whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting, so water was a precious commodity here. And what happened in Denver over a hundred years ago is the founders of the Denver water company [Denver City Water Company] and one other water company [Denver Union Water Company] merged and formed the Denver Water Department [Denver Water], but the city decided, and I think appropriately so, to, to take the whole issue of water and water management out of the political arena. So rather than keep it as a department of city government where it could be politicized by city council votes and things of that nature, they created it as a separate and autonomous department of city government, so there are five commissioners that run the department, we're appointed by the mayor, but once we are appointed the mayor can't remove us; we serve six year terms and there's no limit on how many terms we can serve. So, yes John appointed me in 2005 and I've been on the board ever since and I'm currently president of the board. This is my second term as president of the board of water commissioners.$$Okay now this is as you indicated is very important for Denver. It's a major export of the City of Denver right is water.$$Right.$$Yeah.$$Yeah, well, well you know what has happened over the years is when this started all of the customers of Denver water were inside the city. But, as the region has grown, literally half of our customers are outside of the City and County of Denver. And on top of that, Denver's water supply comes from the Western Slope, the mountains. In Colorado, most of the water supply for the Front Range communities along the eastern side of the mountains it's basically snow melt from snow that accumulates in the mountains, you know melts, goes into reservoirs, and then gets diverted across the Continental Divide to the Front Range for, for city use. And so that's what we have in Denver. And, and we have senior water rights because the city is so old and has been established much longer than other parts of the state, so, and Colorado has an antiquated system of water law that you don't see in a lot of other places where it's literally first in time, first in right; and Denver is first in time in a lot of instances.

Judith Jamison

Dancer and choreographer Judith Jamison was born on May 10, 1943 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Tessie Brown Jamison and John Jamison, Sr. While encouraged by her parents to study the piano and violin, Jamison gravitated towards ballet. At the age of six, Jamison began taking lessons at the Judimar School of Dance in Philadelphia. She went on to study the techniques of African American dance pioneer Katherine Dunham. Jamison graduated from Germantown High School in Philadelphia, and enrolled at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee. However, she left Fisk to study dance and kinesiology at the Philadelphia Dance Academy, now part of New York City’s University of the Arts.

In 1964, Jamison earned critical acclaim for her work with choreographer Agnes de Mille and the American Ballet Theatre in New York. A year later, Alvin Ailey invited Jamison to join the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater, where she was featured in numerous productions, toured with the company to Africa and Europe and earned international acclaim for her signature performance of Cry, a fifteen minute solo piece written by Ailey for Jamison. Jamison went on to appear as a guest performer with the San Francisco Ballet, the Swedish Royal Ballet, the Cullberg Ballet, and the Vienna State Ballet. In 1980, Jamison performed on Broadway in Duke Ellington’s Sophisticated Ladies with Gregory Hines. That same year, Jamison began her own work as a choreographer. She premiered her first ballet, Divining, with the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater in 1984. In 1988, Jamison founded The Jamison Project Dance Company.

Jamison returned to the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater in 1989, assuming the role of artistic director following the death of founder Alvin Ailey. In 1993, Jamison choreographed Hymn, a tribute to Ailey, and published her autobiography, Dancing Spirit. Under her leadership, the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater joined forces with Fordham University to establish a joint bachelor of fine arts program with a multicultural dance curriculum. Jamison also spearheaded the construction of the company’s first permanent home, the Joan Weill Center for Dance. Although Jamison stepped down as artistic director in 2011, she remained associated with the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater as artistic director emerita.

Judith Jamison was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 30, 2016.

Accession Number

A2016.014

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/30/2016

Last Name

Jamison

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Occupation
Schools

Charles W. Henry School

Germantown High School

Fisk University

University of the Arts

First Name

Judith

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

JAM07

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Toubab Dialao, Senegal

Favorite Quote

Pray, Prepare And Proceed.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

5/10/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Salad

Short Description

Dancer and choreographer Judith Jamison (1943 - ) gained international acclaim as a dancer with the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater, before taking over as the company's artistic director in 1989 following the death of founder Alvin Ailey.

Employment

American Ballet Theatre

Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater

Harkness Ballet

Jacob's Pillow

Favorite Color

Red

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Judith Jamison's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Judith Jamison lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Judith Jamison describes her father

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Judith Jamison describes her religious upbringing in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Judith Jamison describes her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Judith Jamison recalls her family's support during her early years in dance

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Judith Jamison describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Judith Jamison describes her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Judith Jamison describes her early dance training with Marion Cuyjet

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Judith Jamison remembers her childhood in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Judith Jamison describes her schools in Philadelphia

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Judith Jamison remembers her decision to attend Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Judith Jamison describes her experiences at Fisk University

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Judith Jamison recalls her introduction to the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Judith Jamison describes the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater style

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Judith Jamison recalls auditioning for the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Judith Jamison reflects upon her dance training

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$2

DAStory

9$7

DATitle
Judith Jamison describes her early dance training with Marion Cuyjet
Judith Jamison recalls auditioning for the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater
Transcript
So, but Marion Cuyjet, what, can you talk about her role?$$Yeah.$$Because she also was an interesting person (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Yeah, Marion, Marion, oh my goodness; Ms. Marion, we called her--$$Ms. Marion.$$--Ms. Marion, we never called her Marion. I didn't even call her Marion when she came to see me dance and I was an adult. I was like, "Hi Ms. Marion," and became this little kid again, you know. She was an amazing black woman who looked white. She had red hair, white skin and green eyes and she was as black as you and me and she was proud of that and she started a school [Judimar School of Dance, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania] for the little black kids who study ballet because you couldn't study back then. To this day people still have trouble getting in schools to study classical ballet; so she made that possible, I mean that's her, she made, she opened a world to us that was not just about classical ballet, but about [HistoryMaker] Katherine Dunham 'cause she was studying--she was teaching Dunham's technique, tap. I'm so glad I had tap because I ended up on Broadway starring in 'Sophisticated Ladies' with Gregory Hines, the greatest, oh my goodness, what a dancer he was and there I was on the stage with him. Thank God I had--Ann Bernardino [Veda Ann Bernardino] was my tap teacher back then. We had the, in--I said Dunham classes, we had acrobatics, that's when I found out there was no way I was going to be a gymnast, no way, this back does not do what gymnasts' backs do, didn't enjoy that, but learned something, had to try it, right. So she gave us the--and she gave tea dances. On Saturday afternoons and she would have guys, the guys in the school and the girls in the school and we'd have gloves on and little skirts and it would be tea on the side and she would actually have dances where you know, you had to stay that far apart and the guy was like this (gesture) and you danced you know, it was, it was very formal and very enriching, I mean you learned so much about how, how to be social even though I wasn't, but you learned how to be, you know, and to engage other people in conversation other than dance. This was one thing I loved about Alvin [Alvin Ailey], Mr. Ailey, he taught us how to do, how to, how to live outside of the box of dance and engage everyone because everyone's your audience.$$Well I was surprised also with how many people she, you know, what, how much you were exposed to--$$Oh yeah.$$--from a dance perspective, through, through, through Ms. Marion (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Right. And she was, and she also farmed me out so-to- speak, farmed me out. Was--and she--I don't know if everybody was getting the same attention I was getting and I'm not, I can't remember that everyone got a chance to study with Antony Tudor when you, they were ten years old, you know, or that--I started taking private lessons with a, oh, what was his name, Yuri Gottschalk, he was a marvelous--I think he was a Latvian, please be Latvian. When I, when I was a kid, I was ten, eleven, twelve and I would take class at his home holding on--there's a thing called the barre; you start class with the barre, you're at the barre, you hold on to the barre and you do--I use to hold on to his stove and he use to put oil on the floor and if anybody knows anything about maintaining these positions that we have in, in ballet, first position, second position, it's based on rotation of the hips, so you were turned out, very unnatural way to stand, but you rotated and turned out, your, your feet are turned out this way (gesture) and in order to hold that properly you really have to use muscles that you don't think you have, you've got to find them and if somebody puts oil under, you better find those muscles otherwise your feet just slide back and, so here I was learning these little tricks of the trade that really would help me later on because Marion passed me on as I was studying her to all these different teachers, excellent teachers.$So you, you tell the story of how you were at the audition and you know he [Alvin Ailey] (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Oh, it was a disaster.$$--sees you, what does he see, that's what I'm saying--he called--$$I have no idea.$$You've never, you've (unclear)--$$I did not. I was terrible at that audition. All I know is I've always had an upward trajectory in my head that I had God's ear and that I was just going this way (gesture) up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up; okay, so in that can you imagine my emotions after not having danced for three months; because I was working the World's Fair [1964 New York World's Fair, New York, New York], you know (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) (Unclear)--$$--from '64 [1964], '65 [1965] after Ballet Theatre [American Ballet Theatre]. There're no black people in Ballet Theatre, hello, now, what do we have, one, two, three something, but you know, every step, what can I say, but there was no gigs, so I was there at the log flume ride Texas Pavilion, that's when Martha Johnson comes in, the pianist I was telling you about at Ballet Theatre, she tells me to go to an audition. I haven't danced for three months. I'm at an audition with people who have been dancing for their lives and back then in 1965, black women were wearing wigs like crazy, lashes like this (gesture), heels, stiletto heels. You went to an audition for a television show. You didn't show up in pink ballet shoes and tights, which is what I did and, and then I couldn't learn a step because it was a wonderful woman named Paula Kelly, who was an extraordinary dancer, who was demonstrating Mr. McKayle's, [HistoryMaker] Donald McKayle's steps and I had never seen steps like that before and I was so stunned by the steps and by her executing them and I was like (gesture), I couldn't learn a thing. I was too stunned. I was just (gesture) so that he calls me three days later after I failed this audition miserably and I didn't even see him at the audition. I didn't know he was there. I just passed by somebody that was sitting on the steps. I didn't know it was him because I was like this (gesture). I was totally in a state of shock, calling my mother [Tessie Brown Jamison] on the phone saying, "I don't know what I'm going to do, but I want to stay in New York [New York], but I don't know, you know," I'm boohooing. And that's the three days later then he calls me and said, "Would you like--this is Alvin Ailey, would you like to join my company [Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater]?" And of course I go, "Yeah, fabulous," and I'm excited and all that, but it's like a blur. It's like a blur. I didn't, I didn't go like, "What did he see in me that he would--?" I didn't then, that, and then I walk into the, the, rehearsal, my first rehearsal and all those people that I saw on stage, not all of them, but some of them are in that, and the first partner I had is the person that I--you know, I mean that, that, you just kind of--and you walk in, I walked in like, like this (gesture), you know like, "Oh, Mr. Truitte [James Truitte]." And then he says, "Girl get over there and learn those steps," you know, I mean--it was just shut down right away, that come on, this is terra firma, you've got a gig now. We're going out in, in four weeks, in three weeks, you got two weeks, you've got to learn eight ballets, go learn them, boom, boom. I went to work right away, there was no like awe and you know, like, like people on pedestals or anything like that, you had your chance when you saw him on stage, then you put him on a pedestal, now you're working with him, guess what, no time for that other stuff. So it wasn't until much later that I figured he saw--and he would tell me that I was probably the most musical dancer he had ever had. I was totally musical, innately musical, that there were things that, how did he call it, revatto [ph.]. There were things that I understood about continuing movement and stopping movement and just a, in, just a natural talent, not a technique talent, you, you've got to learn technique. A lot of people, black people, get into that all the time where it takes no thought, you can dance, you've always been able to dance, not like that, I had to go to school to learn how to do this, period, you know. But yes, he saw that musicality in me and he would, he would--that's why when we were working together that he didn't have to turn around and tell me a whole bunch of stuff. He didn't have to explain a lot of things to me. He would do the movement and I would do the movement copying him and there's no way I could look like him doing the movement, but what, when he would turn around he would be pleased.$$With what he saw--$$Yeah, most of the time (laughter), most of the time. So, yeah, that, he, he, he saw something--I always, when I see dancers that are really special to me it's like they're, they're not from this planet. They are from someplace else you know, they've, they've just arrived, they're here for a little bit then they go on back to where they, where they came from in the first place. They, they're creatures. They're creatures. They, they're human when they step off the stage and do whatever they're doing there, but they are, they are creatures that have, that are full of, of this loving humanity that they only want to share with you for that two and a half hours on stage, isn't that a wonderful thing you know, and when that, when that hits you know it, the audience knows it, you know it and you go away with an experience that you'll never forget. That's what I saw when I saw the company the first time, you know.

Clarence B. Jones

Legal advisor and civil rights leader Clarence B. Jones was born on January 8, 1931 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His parents, Mary and Goldshore Jones, were live-in domestic household servants. He was raised in foster homes and in a Catholic boarding school in Eastern Pennsylvania, run by the Sisters of The Blessed Sacrament. Jones graduated from Palmyra High School in Palmyra, New Jersey in 1949, and enrolled in Columbia University. He was drafted into the U.S. Army during the Korean War in 1953, but was discharged as a “national security risk” due to his left-wing political activities as a college student and his refusal to sign a loyalty oath at the time of his induction. After receiving his B.A. degree from Columbia in 1956, he attended Boston University School of Law, obtaining his LL.B. degree in 1959.

In 1960, Jones moved to Altadena, California to pursue an entertainment and intellectual property law practice. The following year, he joined the defense team for Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who was charged with tax fraud by the State of Alabama. After King’s acquittal, Jones moved to Harlem, New York to work with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). He then became a partner at the firm of Lubell, Lubell, and Jones. In 1962, Jones was selected to serve as general counsel for the Gandhi Society for Human Rights, the SCLC’s fundraising arm. He joined King’s inner circle, the “research committee,” helping draft the civil rights leader’s speeches. He disseminated King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail” (1963), contributed to the “I Have a Dream” (1963) and “Beyond Vietnam” (1967) speeches, and represented the SCLC in the landmark libel case New York Times v. Sullivan (1964). Jones copyrighted the “I Have a Dream” speech in 1963. In 1967, Jones joined the investment banking and brokerage firm of Carter, Berlind & Weill and became the first African American allied member of the New York Stock Exchange. In 1971, at the request of then New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller, he served as a negotiator during the Attica Prison riot, as well as the editor, publisher, and part owner of the New York Amsterdam News. During his career, he provided financial consulting services to the governments of the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, and Zambia, as well as to private investors through Marks Paneth & Shron LLP. He served as a senior partner at Clemenson Capital Company, specializing in cross-border finance in Korea; and President & CEO of CBJ Multimedia Associates, Inc., specializing in telecommunications.

Jones was named Fortune Magazine’s “Man of the Month” twice. He received numerous awards for his service and appeared on CNN, the O’Reilly Factor, NPR, and other media outlets. He was named a Scholar in Residence at Stanford University’s Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute, during which time he wrote and published two books about his experiences with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Jones lives in Palo Alto, California.

Clarence B. Jones was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 10, 2015.

Accession Number

A2015.012

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/10/2015 |and| 12/11/2015 |and| 12/14/2015

Last Name

Jones

Maker Category
Marital Status

Domestic Partner

Middle Name

Benjamin

Organizations
Schools

Palmyra High School

Columbia University

Boston University School of Law

First Name

Clarence

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

JON41

Favorite Season

Autumn

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

The Bahamas

Favorite Quote

The first one hundred years are the hardest, after that it's a piece of cake.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

1/8/1931

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Bay Area/Palo Alto

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Floating Island - Branzini Fish

Short Description

Lawyer and investment banker Clarence B. Jones (1931 - ) served as legal advisor and speechwriter for the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He was also the first African American allied member of the New York Stock Exchange.

Employment

Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Gandhi Society for Human Rights

Lubell, Lubell and Jones

Carter, Berlind & Weill

Marks Paneth & Shron LLP

Clemenson Capital Company

Stanford University Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute

Favorite Color

Blue

Troy Carter

Music manager Troy Carter was born on November 14, 1972 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He was raised in West Philadelphia, where he attended Huey Elementary and Sayre Middle School. In 1990, at the age of seventeen, Carter dropped out of West Philadelphia High School in pursuit of a career in the music industry.

Carter first worked for Will Smith and James Lassiter’s Overbrook Entertainment. He then joined Bad Boy Entertainment in 1995, where he worked with musical artists such as Notorious B.I.G. In 1999, Carter met and began to manage rapper Eve Jeffers. He subsequently co-founded his own management company called Erving Wonder, where he managed rap acts like Floetry and Nelly. In 2004, Erving Wonder was acquired by the Sanctuary Group.

In 2007, Carter was asked to manage Lady Gaga. That same year, he founded Coalition Media Group. In 2010, he established Coalition Media Group’s management division Atom Factory, where he serves as chairman and chief executive officer. Since then, Carter has managed the careers of numerous recording artists such as John Legend, Greyson Chance, Mindless Behavior, Priyanka Chopra, Lindsey Stirling, the Ceremonies, and John Mayer.

In 2011, he co-founded The Backplane, a Silicon Valley-based startup branding company. In 2012, he created A \ IDEA, a product development and branding agency, as well as AF Square, an angel fund and technology consultancy with investments in over sixty startup companies including Spotify, Warby Parker, Songza, Dropbox, Fab, and Uber. In addition, Carter has established a beverage company called POPwater.

Carter has served as an Aspen Institute Henry Crown Fellow and sits on the boards of The Grammy Foundation, the T.J. Martell Foundation, the United Nations Foundation Global Entrepreneurs Council and The Buckley School.

Troy Carter was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 9, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.244

Sex

Male

Interview Date

08/09/2014

Last Name

Carter

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Lemar

Occupation
Schools

Samuel B. Huey School

William L. Sayre High School

West Philadelphia High School

First Name

Troy

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

CAR31

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard

Favorite Quote

You Can’t Fall Off The Floor.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

11/14/1972

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Los Angeles

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chinese

Short Description

Music manager Troy Carter (1972 - ) was the founder, chairman and chief executive officer of Atom Factory, Inc. He managed the careers of numerous recording artists including Lady Gaga, John Legend and John Mayer.

Employment

Overbrook Entertainment

Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Erving Wonder

Coalition Media Group

Eve Jeffries (recording artist)

Atom Factory

Lady Gaga (recording artist)

The Backplane

AF Square

A \ IDEA

POPwater

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
0,0:216,47:10522,251:23170,488:24348,515:24906,525:25402,536:33872,636:52807,923:59364,1052:59696,1057:79814,1410:82418,1463:86076,1550:86324,1555:87254,1574:89238,1651:101228,1776:109088,1909:113408,1980:121495,2073:125018,2119:125378,2125:126818,2158:137546,2410:146232,2528:150007,2587:158527,2767:158811,2772:159166,2778:164917,2913:175110,3017$0,0:1679,34:35636,591:37012,613:38904,645:39248,650:48295,878:49140,896:49465,902:49725,907:50115,921:50440,927:61535,1113:81142,1435:82030,1454:95125,1672:95450,1678:96360,1696:96620,1701:102295,1745:103075,1759:103400,1765:104050,1778:114920,1943:115721,1954:135531,2244:135916,2250:152770,2483:157612,2524:160527,2543:161143,2553:163222,2591:172866,2676:180100,2821:186620,2935:190680,3014:191380,3032:192640,3055:194320,3098:194600,3103:199038,3124:202536,3240:206790,3267:207402,3283:207742,3289:218506,3423:225958,3546:226698,3559:227364,3571:227660,3576:230398,3617:231582,3643:231878,3648:234764,3704:235134,3709:238464,3785:238908,3793:247324,3891:247772,3899:248220,3908:249628,3933:253120,3965
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Troy Carter's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Troy Carter lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Troy Carter describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Troy Carter remembers his mother's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Troy Carter describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Troy Carter talks about his father's research into his family lineage

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Troy Carter remembers his parents' divorce

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Troy Carter describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Troy Carter describes his early home life

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Troy Carter talks about his early interests

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Troy Carter describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Troy Carter describes his early education

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Troy Carter talks about his father's incarceration, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Troy Carter talks about his father's incarceration, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Troy Carter talks about his father's accomplishments

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Troy Carter recalls his challenges during his youth

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Troy Carter talks about the crack cocaine epidemic in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Troy Carter remembers Lawrence Goodman

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Troy Carter recalls his early interest in music

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Troy Carter remembers getting into trouble as a teenager

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Troy Carter recalls his mother's efforts to reform him and his brothers

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Troy Carter talks about his hip hop group, 2 Too Many

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Troy Carter talks about working with Will Smith and James Lassiter

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Troy Carter recalls the breakup of 2 Too Many

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Troy Carter remembers working with James Lassiter at Overbrook Entertainment in Beverly Hills, California

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Troy Carter reflects upon his time with James Lassiter

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Troy Carter remembers living in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Troy Carter talks about the mentorship of James Lassiter, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Troy Carter talks about the mentorship of James Lassiter, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Troy Carter recalls meeting P. Diddy

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Troy Carter talks about his experiences as a concert organizer in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Troy Carter remembers Kenny Gamble

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Troy Carter remembers the death of The Notorious B.I.G.

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Troy Carter recalls managing Eve

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Troy Carter talks about his experiences as Eve's manager

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Troy Carter recalls selling Erving Wonder Entertainment to Sanctuary Records Group Ltd.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Troy Carter describes his experiences working for Sanctuary Records Group Ltd.

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Troy Carter recalls reacquiring his company from Sanctuary Records Group Ltd.

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Troy Carter talks about his professional setbacks in the mid-2000s

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Troy Carter remembers meeting Lady Gaga

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Troy Carter talks about his initial experiences as Lady Gaga's manager

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Troy Carter recalls using social media to market Lady Gaga

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Troy Carter talks about Lady Gaga's early tours

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Troy Carter describes Lady Gaga's sudden popularity

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Troy Carter talks about his working relationship with Lady Gaga

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Troy Carter reflects upon his success with Lady Gaga

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Troy Carter remembers his favorite Lady Gaga performance

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Troy Carter describes the logistics of Lady Gaga's international tours

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Troy Carter talks about celebrities' use of social media

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Troy Carter talks about the corporate structure of Atom Factory, Inc.

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Troy Carter describes his clientele

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Troy Carter talks about his clients' philanthropic work

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Troy Carter describes his experiences as a technology investor

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Troy Carter describes the diversification of the Atom Factory, Inc.

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Troy Carter talks about his technology company investments

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Troy Carter talks about the social media platform Backplane

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Troy Carter talks about ending his professional relationship with Lady Gaga

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Troy Carter talks about the importance of mentorship

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Troy Carter talks about his mentors

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Troy Carter reflects upon his connection to Reginald F. Lewis

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Troy Carter reflects upon the legacy of his generation

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Troy Carter describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Troy Carter talks about his family

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$6

DAStory

5$6

DATitle
Troy Carter recalls meeting P. Diddy
Troy Carter reflects upon his connection to Reginald F. Lewis
Transcript
How do you get to Bad Boy [Bad Boy Records] at that time?$$I was doing--I was promoting these shows in Philly [Philadelphia, Pennsylvania] and you know I, I--the hip hop shows in Philly, nobody--none, none of the big promoters would touch the hip hop shows in Philly and you couldn't get them insured. They were really, really tough to get insurance for just because it would be violence and you know things like that would happen so nobody didn't want to touch it. So--and I loved the music and I would go and I would get money from guys in my neighborhood to go out and, and bring these acts from New York [New York] in to do these concerts. And--$$Would you get the place for it to be held?$$Yes, I would go, I would find the hall or the nightclub and you know, and you know, we would pay a rental fee and we would pay the acts you know a few thousand bucks [dollars] or whatever. And what I didn't know is you know those acts would turn out to be you know, Wu-Tang Clan, Notorious B.I.G. [Biggie Smalls; The Notorious B.I.G.], Jay-Z, Lil' Kim, Foxy Brown, so a lot of those acts you know we were the first promoters to bring them to Philly. And one of the concerts that I had, I was bringing Notorious B.I.G. to the, to the Penn, to University of Penn's campus [University of Pennsylvania] at the Civic Center [Philadelphia Convention Hall and Civic Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania] and one of his first concerts in Philly, I--one of the kids who was working on the show runs to the back and he said he you know, "B.I.G.'s not here yet. He's scheduled to be on stage in fifteen minutes. We got to call the manager." So, I called up the manager and you know I said, "Where the hell is B.I.G.? Where is he?" He said, "We're shooting this video right now in New York but you know we're going to still try to make it down in time." You know New York's two hours away from Philly. And, and they came two hours late, the show was over. And the guy who ran the music label was this guy named Puff, P. Diddy [Sean Combs] and he told the manager, Mark Pitts, he said, "You know what, let's give this guy his money back and let's give him another, another show. Let's go all hang out." So, we had this, we were having this after party at a club called Fever downtown [Club Fever, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania], and I was asking Puff, I said, "You know what, what, what do you do? Like tell, tell me about what you do?" So, you know he's telling me you know, "I run, da, da, da, da, da, da." I said, "I want to come work for you." He said, "Your first job is to get me that girl behind the bar," (laughter) and I went up to the bar and I told the girl, I said, "Hey, this guy is--," you know. So, I made the, I made the introduction. Probably three or four weeks later I was, I was joining the internship program at Bad Boy Entertainment.$$So, where was Bad Boy located at that point?$$In New York City.$$No, but I mean what, what building?$$This--we were on 19th [Street] and 5th [Avenue] at the time.$So, you know a few weeks ago--and this was like my, it was, it was mind blowing. Because you know I read, I read the, I read you know Reginald Lewis' biography ['Why Should White Guys Have All the Fun?: How Reginald Lewis Created a Billion-Dollar Business Empire,' Reginald F. Lewis and Blair S. Walker] you know when I--in, in '95 [1995], '96 [1996], some- somewhere like when it first came out. And no, it was before that, maybe '93 [1993], and it blew my mind. I read this book probably fifteen, twenty times, over and over. And I always would think about this guy, what would he do? Like you know it just really, it was incredible. So, last year I spoke at this MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts] conference and I was coming off stage and this girl [Christina Lewis Halpern] walks over to me and she said, "You know I'm starting this foundation around black kids that code. I would love to talk to you about it." So, I said, "I'm in." I said, "Anything around computer science with young black kids I'm, I'm in." So, you know we, we're talking about it. So, a guy walks over and he has his lanyard on and she says, "Oh this is such and such. He, he, he worked with my father." And then I looked and it said the Reginald F. Lewis Foundation [New York, New York] and I said, "Your dad was Reginald Lewis [Reginald F. Lewis]?" She said, "Yes." I said "Look," I said, "I got chills." I said, "You have no idea the impact your dad has had on my life." I said, "I'm here on--today because of him. Like you have no idea." So, I'm getting excited, I'm talking to her about it. So, over the last year I helped her with it. Three weeks ago she had this thing at her house. And, and it was at her place, their, their place in the Hamptons [New York] and it was the launch of this, of the, the foundation that they launched, All Star Code. And me and my wife [Rebecca Carter] flew in and at the airport is this you know astute black gentleman at the airport and he says, "Mr. Carter [HistoryMaker Troy Carter], we've been waiting for you. The, you know, thank you for coming, dah, dah, dah." And I'm not, and I'm you know so he walks us to this car and it's a 1988 Bentley and we get in and he turns around and he says, "This was Mr. Lewis' car. And it, and you're sitting where Mr. Lewis used to sit." This--the guy was his but- was his butler and driver. So, now it's like--I was you know in the car, I was speechless because I never could have imagined sitting in his seat, going to his house and spending that time with his family, I never could have imagined being there. And so, you know, we stayed the night at the house and the next morning when we, when we were leaving Loida [Loida Nicolas Lewis] walked over to me and she said, "It's time for you to write your book." And I said, "Well you know I thought about it. I don't know if I, you know, if I want to do it, you know, I don't, you know I don't know if it, if it's time." And she said, "I'm telling you," she said, "you know my--," she's like my--, "I had to do my husband's book after he died." She said, "It's time for you to write your book." She said, "I'm going to introduce you to Blair [Blair S. Walker] who wrote my husband's book." This is how the world comes full circle. Monday she introduces, she sends out an email with, to Blair and Blair responds, "I've been looking for you." He said, "I've called your office. I've tried to get in touch with you. I've been wanting to write this book about you, you know because this is the next generation of what Reginald left behind, this is, this is for that next generation behind Reginald," because Reginald was about Wall Street and you know and leverage buyouts and that sort of thing. And to be able to talk to young black kids about technology and thinking--you know. So, and so now Blair and I are getting ready to start on, embark on this project.$$Thanks to Loida.$$Yep.

Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr.

Religious leader Reverend Dr. Jim Holley was born on December 5, 1943 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Effie Mae King Holley and Charles James Holley, Sr. Holley graduated with his B.S. degree in 1965 and his M.S. degree in international relations in 1968, both from Tennessee State University. He went on to receive his B.A. and M.Div. degrees in the Old Testament from Chicago Theological Seminary, and then his Ph.D. degree in higher education from Wayne State University in 1978. He later received his D.Min. degree in economic development from Drew University.

On June 9, 1972, Holley became pastor of Detroit, Michigan’s Little Rock Baptist Church. In addition to his role as pastor, he was named president and chief executive officer of Cognos Advertising Agency in 1988, and has served as dean of the Ashland Theological Seminary, police commissioner, president of the Council of Baptist Pastors, and president and chief executive officer of Country Preacher Foods, Inc., the largest minority food distributor in the world. He also went on to establish and chair the Detroit Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1997.

As a community leader in Detroit, Holley has acquired the St. Regis Hotel, the Little Rock Pharmacy, the Family Life Center, the Little Rock Health Care Home, a local strip mall, and an education complex for high school dropouts. He is also the author of numerous spiritually-focused books, including the Handbook for Brotherhood Organizations (1990); Manual for Brotherhood Organizations (1990); The Mission, The Minister, The Ministry (1990); A Guide to Successful Preaching & Pastoring (1992); The Drama of Human Suffering (1992); The Buck Stops Here (1994); Jesus, This is Jimmy (1994); The Spirit Speaks: Daily Spiritual Motivation for Successful African Americans (1997); Creating a Can Do Attitude in a Can't Do Atmosphere (2000); and When the Vision is Larger Than the Budget (2006).

Holley has been rated by the Detroit Free Press as one of the top five ministers in Michigan, and was named Michiganian of the Year by the Detroit News in 1990. He has been recognized by Crain's Business Magazine as one of the foremost voices in Detroit, and was honored at the 2010 Trumpet Awards.

The Reverend Dr. Jim Holley was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 24, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.227

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/24/2014

Last Name

Holley

Maker Category
Middle Name

James

Occupation
Schools

Tennessee State University

Chicago Theological Seminary

Wayne State University

Drew University

First Name

Charles

Birth City, State, Country

Philadelphia

HM ID

HOL18

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Nassau, Bahamas

Favorite Quote

The Measure Of A Man Is How He Handles His Vicissitudes. (Paraph. fr MLK)

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Michigan

Birth Date

12/5/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Detroit

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken

Short Description

Religious leader Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. (1943 - ) has been the pastor of Detroit, Michigan’s Little Rock Baptist Church since 1972. He also founded the Detroit Academy of Arts and Sciences and served as president and CEO of Cognos Advertising Agency, dean of the Ashland Theological Seminary, and president and CEO of Country Preacher Foods, Inc.

Employment

Cognos Advertising Agency

Country Preacher Foods, Inc.

Detroit Academy of Arts and Sciences

Detroit (Mich.). Police Dept.

Little Rock Baptist Church

Ashland Theological Seminary

Favorite Color

Black or Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:5620,66:6340,76:6660,81:8900,214:18830,363:25796,469:31131,515:32459,546:35281,586:35779,593:36692,606:40178,658:42502,694:42834,699:44909,741:45739,756:47150,782:47565,788:52213,891:60008,929:60404,938:60800,945:66172,1004:70030,1033:70350,1038:75230,1120:75950,1132:77470,1154:80670,1201:81150,1208:86190,1291:86670,1298:91455,1316:93580,1336:98595,1411:100210,1439:100635,1445:103440,1493:112316,1587:113756,1623:114260,1633:116636,1665:116924,1670:123230,1708$0,0:910,20:1218,25:4606,102:5299,114:5992,125:6685,136:13486,195:16396,251:16881,257:17754,263:18239,270:32566,508:35694,544:48714,720:54660,789:55276,798:56277,815:57740,837:58202,844:63130,921:64362,943:65209,962:65594,968:67596,1007:67904,1012:72388,1030:73264,1048:75070,1071:78350,1113:85310,1236:85630,1242:91470,1331:103558,1422:103874,1427:105217,1451:107271,1478:107824,1487:137750,1840:138100,1849:138380,1854:141110,1903:141390,1908:142440,1932:144470,1974:148423,2030:151270,2080:151635,2086:152073,2093:156380,2152:175653,2403:177470,2411
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr.

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his parents' relationship

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes being raised by his paternal grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. lists his brothers and sisters

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. considers which parents' disposition he takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his earliest childhood memories in West Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. talks about segregation and poverty in rural West Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. talks about racism in West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes race relations in his community in West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. talks about attending Laurel Creek Baptist Church in Wolfe, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. remembers watching Oral Roberts' televangelist program, 'The Abundant Life'

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes sights, sounds and smells of his community in West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his experience at Roseville Elementary School in West Virginia, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his experience at Roseville Elementary School in West Virginia, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his sixth grade experience at Paul Laurence Dunbar Elementary School in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes moving to Mount Pleasant, Tennessee with his aunt and uncle

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes attending Mount Nebo Baptist Church in Mount Pleasant, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his experience at Clarke High School in Mount Pleasant, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes how he got to Tennessee State University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes his experience as an undergraduate student at Tennessee State University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. remembers participating in Nashville, Tennessee civil rights demonstrations

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$2

DAStory

10$4

DATitle
Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. talks about segregation and poverty in rural West Virginia
Reverend Dr. Jim Holley, Jr. describes sights, sounds and smells of his community in West Virginia
Transcript
I've heard people describe growing up in West Virginia in a rural situation like yours and it always--they, they described a pretty tough--$$Right.$$--existence. I mean--(simultaneous)--$$Right.$$--I have friends that grew up in Glen Rogers, West Virginia--$$Yeah.$$--and another one in--I can't think of the other town, but--$$Yeah.$$--but they're, you know--$$Because it was very--again, segregation was, was not something that was on the, the, the radar screen for anybody. We--you had to do what you--because people did--they did what they wanted to do to you and it doesn't--and nobody really cared outside of the, of the, the community. And so as a child, you basically--you stayed in your area. It's interesting that when I was a child, I would always look to get to the black community, and now that I'm grown, I'm always lookin' to get to, to the other community now. It seems like you're--that your community, you know, is having trouble, so to speak. But, it was, it was very poor. The whole state was poor for the most part. And, and, when I went to school as a kid, I had to walk. There was no bus system, you know, so I would walk about pretty much I think it came out to about eleven miles going one way to Bramwell [West Virginia]] and another, another eleven miles coming back. So I would wash up at--in cold water 'cause there's no heat, and then you wash up and you basically go to school. And you have to go early because you gotta walk, and then you gotta walk back. And so it was, it was, it was difficult. But, again, in those days, it was the way of life and you get used to the way of life, and there's no exposure to make you feel like it was anything different.$$Okay.$Well, we always ask this question or you've, you've already explained some, some of it, but what were some of the sights and sounds and smells of growin' up?$$I'm not quite sure of how to answer that. I hear what--I know what you're sayin'. I'm not quite sure, again, like I said--$$Were there any particular smells, for instance, from a, from the mines or the--(simultaneous)--$$No, not really--(simultaneous)--$$--(unclear) activity?$$I, I, I think, you know, what the--I don't wanna be so philosophical with you, but I think the, the, the smell of poverty. I just--I hated it. I hated it. I hated it. Even though I didn't understand it, I still hate--I--not knowin' how you're gonna make it the next day and my grandmother [Marybelle Holley], and, and, and just knowin' how I can free her from all of this pressure that she was always under. But, I do understand what you're sayin'. Obviously, there's what we call a, a hog killing time where--in the whole area, everybody killed the hogs at the same time. And so the children did what they had to do and the grownups did what they had to do. And so that smell (laughter), you know, of all the--those hogs and stuff like the, you know, the straughter [ph.]--I'm sorry, you know, when you kill the hogs, hogs. So that's--that was a, was a interesting event (laughter) that took place where we all pitched in and obviously they would give, give us some, some, some sausage and things like that for, for helping. So that was always a interesting smell, if you don't mind. I, I would--the only thing, you know, I would, I would go nighttime because I wouldn't have any, any, any coal to--for the fuel, fuel for the fire and so I, I would hop freight trains and throw the, the, the coal off the freight trains and to go back the next day, next morning, and try to pick it up and bring it home because, again, we--many several of us had to do that because we were--didn't have the money, didn't have the money for fuel.$$I've--(simultaneous)--$$So--$$--heard that story before--$$Yeah.$$You know--$$Until the, until the state police used to protect the trains from going through the, through community now and then, so we had to be careful that we not gonna get killed by hoppin' the freight train and then bein' shot by the, the state trooper tryin' to get the coal off. It was, you know--but it's amazing what you would do even as a kid to survive.