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Joe Madison

Radio host Joe Madison was born on June 16, 1949 in Dayton, Ohio to Nancy Stone and Felix Madison. He graduated from Roosevelt High School in 1967 in Dayton. Madison enrolled at University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, in 1967, but received his B.A. degree in sociology in 1971 from Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.

He worked in public relations at General Motors Corporation, in Detroit, Michigan from 1969 to 1970 and also worked as a statistician for the Saint Louis Cardinals football club, in St Louis, Missouri in 1970. He served as a communications associate for Mead Corporation, in Dayton, during the 1970s, and worked as associate director in urban affairs at Seymour & Lundy Associates, a public relations firm in Detroit from 1971 to 1974. Madison was selected to serve as executive director of Detroit's NAACP branch at the age of twenty four, the youngest person to be appointed to the position, serving from 1974 to 1978. Appointed by NAACP executive director Benjamin Hooks, Madison then served as NAACP national political director from 1978 to 1986. He began his broadcasting career at Detroit's WXYZ-AM radio station in 1980, and later worked at FM talk station WWDB in Philadelphia. Madison joined WWRC-AM in Washington, D.C., from 1988 to 1989 where he developed “a crossover appeal” handling issues that included race, but were aimed at the station's multicultural audience. From 1989 to 2007, he worked as a broadcaster at Radio One. In 1998, Madison left WWRC-AM to start an online chat show. He joined urban talk radio station WOL-AM, in Washington, D.C., serving as broadcaster and program director from 1999 to 2013. He joined SiriusXM in 2007. A radio talk show host and civil rights activist, widely known as “The Black Eagle,” Madison can be heard on his SiriusXM Urban View titular weekday morning show, The Joe Madison Show

Joe Madison was elected to the board of directors for the NAACP, and served from 1986 to 1999 and he also was appointed chairman of the NAACP Image Awards.

Madison and his wife Sharon have four children including Michelle, Shawna, Jason and Monesha, and five grandchildren.

Joe Madison was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 17, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.158

Sex

Male

Interview Date

8/17/2018

Last Name

Madison

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Joe

Birth City, State, Country

Dayton

HM ID

MAD06

Favorite Season

Early Fall

State

Ohio

Favorite Vacation Destination

N/A

Favorite Quote

What Are You Going To Do About It?

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

6/16/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United State of America

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Radio host Joe Madison (1949- ) joined SiriusXM in 2007, hosting SiriusXM Urban View’s weekday morning show, The Joe Madison Show, as “The Black Eagle.”

Favorite Color

Black

Charles Andrews

Radio executive Charles Andrews was born on December 16, 1939 in San Antonio, Texas to Smithie Sutton Andrews and Dr. Charles Andrews, Sr. He attended Grant Elementary School in San Antonio, and graduated from Lowell High School in San Francisco, California. He went on to become a pre-med major at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, graduating in 1963. Andrews also completed graduate coursework at University of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio and Harvard Business School in Boston, Massachusetts.

Upon his graduation from Lincoln University in 1963, Andrews was hired as an archivist for Bexar County, Texas. In 1964, he secured a position as a lab technician at the School of Aerospace Medicine at Brooks Air Force Base, and was later promoted to physiological training officer. From 1968 to 1970, Andrews worked as an insurance agent for Lincoln National Life Insurance. In 1975, he founded Andrews and Associates, a consulting firm that worked with housing authorities and Model Cities Programs across the country. From 1979 to 1989, Andrews was the president and CEO of Andrews Brothers Incorporated, an ocean transportation company. In 1984, Andrews became the president of Inner City Broadcasting Corporation, which was founded by his uncles Percy Sutton and Oliver Sutton. Andrews oversaw the radio station’s transition from AM to FM cast in 1988. In 1997, he served as the secretary on the board of Africom, a telecommunications company founded by Gregory Brown, Prentiss Yancy, and Andrews. He was also president of the production company Entermercial, Inc., that produced entertainment based commercials. Andrews served as president of Inner City Broadcasting Corporation until 2000 when the radio station was sold to Clear Channel.

Andrews has received many distinctions including 1993 Man of the Year by the Elks and the Western Area of The Links, Incorporated. He also served as Chairman of the San Antonio Housing Authority and President of San Antonio Housing Authority Foundation; and on the boards of NOWCASTSA and the Van Courtlandt Foundation.

Andrews and his wife, Thelma Andrews, have two sons, Michael Andrews and Charles Andrews III.

Charles Andrews was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on July 9, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.130

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/9/2018

Last Name

Andrews

Maker Category
Middle Name

C.

Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Charles

Birth City, State, Country

San Antonio

HM ID

AND18

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Bermuda

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Texas

Birth Date

12/16/1939

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

San Antonio

Favorite Food

Chili

Short Description

Radio executive Charles Andrews (1939 - ) was the president of Inner City Broadcasting Corporation from 1984 to 2000, , and CEO of Andrews Brothers Incorporated, an ocean transportation company.

Favorite Color

Aqua

Munir Muhammad

Community activist Munir Muhammad was born on March 27, 1950 in Birmingham, Alabama to Mary Henley Waller and Robert L. Waller. After graduating from Wenonah High School in 1968, Muhammad moved to Chicago, Illinois, where he first worked in the shipping and receiving department for DeMert & Dougherty, a hair care product and grooming supply company. Then, in 1970, Muhammad became an assistant code enforcer for the City of Chicago.

Muhammad joined the Nation of Islam in 1972, and began reading the texts of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Although he left the Nation of Islam following the death of Elijah Muhammad in 1975, he co-founded The Coalition for the Remembrance of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad (C.R.O.E.) in 1987, along with Halif Muhammad and Shahid Muslim. The organization started as a small group of individuals meeting at Muhammad’s home on the South Side of Chicago to study and discuss Elijah Muhammad’s teachings and speeches. In 1994, C.R.O.E launched C.R.O.E TV; and in 1997, the organization established the C.R.O.E. TV Production Studio in the West Englewood neighborhood. Muhammad served as the executive producer for C.R.O.E. TV. He also hosted several television programs, including The Munir Muhammad Show and Muhammad and Friends, in addition to radio programs Political Talk and The Muhammad Speaks Radio Show. Muhammad interviewed a number of notable individuals, including Minister Louis Farrakhan, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, Illinois Representative Gus Savage, and actor Harry Lennix. C.R.O.E. TV’s programming broadcast in many cities across the United States, including in Chicago, Atlanta, New York City, and Charlotte. Muhammad and Colonel Eugene Scott also initiated an editorial partnership between The Chicago Defender and C.R.O.E. TV in 2001. In 2018, C.R.O.E. held its 31st Annual Founders Day celebration, which was attended by news anchorman John E. Davis, Judges Anne Burke and Dorothy Brown, and Reverend Al Sampson. Muhammad also served as the business manager of C.R.O.E. for over thirty years.

Muhammad served on the Illinois Human Rights Commission, and was also appointed to the Cook County Board of Corrections in 2004.

Munir Muhammad was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 5, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.093

Sex

Male

Interview Date

5/5/2018

Last Name

Muhammad

Maker Category
Organizations
First Name

Munir

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

MUH03

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Anywhere People Are

Favorite Quote

The Uniting Of Knowledge And Finances And Wisdom Would Be Good For Us As A People.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

3/27/1950

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Favorite Food

Salmon

Short Description

Community activist Munir Muhammad (1950 - ) co-founded the Coalition for the Remembrance of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (C.R.O.E.) in 1987, and hosted The Munir Muhammad Show and Muhammad and Friends on C.R.O.E. TV.

Favorite Color

Navy Blue

Ann B. Walker

Radio host Ann B. Walker was born on November 1, 1923 in Columbus, Ohio. She graduated from South River High School in East Brunswick, New Jersey in 1940, and received her B.A. degree from George Williams College, in Chicago, Illinois in 1944.

She served as journalist, editor and columnist for the Ohio Sentinel, and is best known for her column “Ann Walker’s Party Line.” In the 1960s, she joined the radio station WVKO-AM in Columbus and served as assistant news director, community services director and the on-air host of the “Ann Walker Show” and “Youth Speaks”. In 1970, Walker also served as a member of the Columbus Consumer Protection Committee. In 1972, she became the on-air talent, producer and community services director for WLWC-TV in Columbus, and the first female in broadcast management at the station. In 1978, Walker was inducted into the Ohio Women’s Hall of Fame as the first woman broadcaster to report on the Ohio legislature. In 1980, Walker became the creator and host of WCMH-TV’s new public affairs program. In the same year, Walker was appointed by President Jimmy Carter as special assistant to the director of The White House Public Affairs Office. In 1991, Walker established her own company, Ann B. Walker and Associates. Then, in 2002, Walker wrote the introduction to A Piece of My Damn Mind! by Calvin H. Stillwell.

Walker received numerous acknowledgements and recognition for her contributions to the local media industry and the community. She was listed among the “Who’s Who in Black Central Ohio” in 2000. Her work is archived in the Columbus Metropolitan Library African American history collection. Her name and image are included among the honorees on the Long Street Cultural Wall in Columbus. As a lifetime member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Walker served as the 24th Alpha Sigma Omega Chapter President in Columbus, Ohio. She also served as a ruling elder at Bethany Presbyterian Church in Columbus. In 2004, she helped established the Linwood P. Walker Scholarship, named in honor of her late husband.

Walker is widowed and has four children.

Ann B. Walker was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 16, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.204

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/16/2017

Last Name

Walker

Maker Category
Middle Name

B.

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

George Williams College

Prairie View A&M University

East High School

Champion Avenue School

Mt. Vernon Elementary School

First Name

Ann

Birth City, State, Country

Columbus

HM ID

WAL24

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Ohio

Favorite Vacation Destination

Africa

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Ohio

Birth Date

11/1/1923

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Columbus

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fish

Short Description

Radio host Ann B. Walker (1923 - ) hosted the “Ann Walker Show” and “Youth Speaks” on WVKO-AM in Columbus, Ohio and was appointed special assistant to the director of The White House Public Affairs Office during the administration of President Jimmy Carter.

Favorite Color

Red

Greg Mack

Radio host Greg Mack was born on June 22, 1959 in Emory, Texas. He was raised in Van Alstyne, Texas, and started in radio in 1975 as an intern with KTSA in San Antonio, Texas, while still in high school. Mack continued to work for KTSA after graduating from Van Alstyne High School in 1977.

While working at KTSA, Mack was hired part-time as the weekend DJ at KEYS/KZFM in Corpus Christi, Texas. Soon afterwards, he was given a full-time show. When a post at Majic 102 (KMJQ-FM) in Houston, Texas opened up in 1980, Mack was hired to host the six-to-ten shift. In 1983, Mack was named music director at KDAY in Los Angeles, California, where he changed the direction of the station by incorporating rap music. From his position at KDAY, Mack promoted many that would become the most well-known artists of the mid-1980s and early-1990s, such as Dr. Dre and the World Class Wreckin’ Cru, N.W.A, Ice T, and many others. Eventually, KDAY’s popularity was eclipsed by more powerful FM stations, and Mack moved on to Stevie Wonder-owned KJLH in 1990.

After his time at KDAY and KJLH, Mack purchased several radio stations, and acted as a radio station consultant. He signed a contract with MCA Records and released a CD entitled “The Mixmasters.” He then signed with Motown, and in 1989, released a compilation album of hits played at KDAY titled “What Does It All Mean?” He also released a three-CD compilation named “KDAY ‘Mack Attack,’” highlighting his mixing crew the MixMasters, and featuring mix shows, jingles, and show outtakes in 1997. He joined 94.7 the WAVE in 2013 as the Saturday night DJ.

Mack has five children and six grandchildren.

Greg Mack was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 2, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.199

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/2/2014

Last Name

McMillion

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Van Alstyne H S

Fox Technical H S

San Antonio College

First Name

Greggory

Birth City, State, Country

Emory

HM ID

MAC04

Favorite Season

When It Rains

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Wherever He Can Fish

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

6/22/1959

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Los Angeles

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Barbecue

Short Description

Radio host Greg Mack (1959 - ) is widely credited with pioneering the twenty-four hour rap format at KDAY-AM 1580, in Los Angeles, California.

Employment

KTSA/KTFM San Antonio

KEYS/KZFM Corpus Christi

Majic 102 (KMJQ-FM)

KDAY Los Angeles

KJLH Los Angeles

MCA Records

Motown Records

94.7 The WAVE

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Greg Mack's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Greg Mack lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Greg Mack describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Greg Mack talks about his grandparents' farm in Emory, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Greg Mack talks about his mother's experience growing up in Emory, Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Greg Mack talks about his biological father and his stepfather

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Greg Mack describes a trait he shares with his grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Greg Mack talks about his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Greg Mack describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Greg Mack describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Greg Mack describes Van Alstyne, Texas in the 1960s

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Greg Mack recalls elementary school experiences in Van Alstyne, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Greg Mack explains his views on the Christian church

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Greg Mack talks about listening to the radio and watching TV in the 1960s

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Greg Mack talks about his high school sports experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Greg Mack talks about raising pigs in Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Greg Mack talks about his parents' move to California

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Greg Mack talks about the difference between his speech and East Texas black dialect

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Greg Mack talks about school extracurricular activities and raising himself as a young teenager

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Greg Mack talks about moving to San Antonio, Texas and behaving as the class clown at Fox Technical High School

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Greg Mack recalls interning at a radio station in San Antonio, Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Greg Mack talks about his early career aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Greg Mack talks about interning at KTSA in San Antonio, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Greg Mack talks about his first job at KTSA radio in San Antonio, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Greg Mack talks about getting a first-class radio license

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Greg Mack recalls leaving KTSA radio in San Antonio, Texas and joining KEYS radio in Corpus Christi, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Greg Mack talks about his responsibilities at KTSA and KEYS radio

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Greg Mack talks about being hired by Majic 102 in Houston, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Greg Mack talks about working the late night shift at Majic 102 in Houston, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Greg Mack talks about accepting a job offer from KDAY radio in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Greg Mack describes an interview with Charlie Wilson and Roger Troutman

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Greg Mack recalls his decision to add rap to the music lineup at KDAY radio in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Greg Mack describes diversifying the music lineup at KDAY in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Greg Mack recalls working with Dr. Dre, DJ Yella, and Tony G

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Greg Mack describes his DJs at KDAY radio in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Greg Mack talks about playing new rappers and unreleased songs on KDAY radio in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Greg Mack recalls Friday Night Live parties and his relationship with Los Angeles gangs

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Greg Mack describes his relationships with Los Angeles gangs and Barry White

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Greg Mack talks about the most memorable moment of his career

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Greg Mack remembers meeting Diana Ross and Michael Jackson

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Greg Mack talks about working with Dr. Dre on 'Boyz-n-the-Hood' and 'Radio'

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Greg Mack talks about Dr. Dre and Eazy-E

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Greg Mack talks about the origins of Def Jam Recordings

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Greg Mack talks about pioneering the rhythmic contemporary format at KDAY in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Greg Mack explains the demise of KDAY radio in the early 1990s

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Greg Mack recalls the beginning of his career at KJLH in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Greg Mack talks about producing his two records

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Greg Mack talks about his failed business ventures and losing his first radio station

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Greg Mack talks about his failed attempts at radio station ownership

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Greg Mack talks about joining The WAVE radio station and current media projects

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Greg Mack talks about what he would have done differently in his life

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Greg Mack reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Greg Mack describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Greg Mack talks about the future of black radio

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Greg Mack talks about his family

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Greg Mack talks about participating in historical documentaries

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Greg Mack describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$3

DAStory

8$9

DATitle
Greg Mack talks about Dr. Dre and Eazy-E
Greg Mack recalls his decision to add rap to the music lineup at KDAY radio in Los Angeles, California
Transcript
--And so, we just did a lot of stuff together, you know, me and [Dr.] Dre, but not just Dre but Ice Cube, because Ice Cube at that time was trying to get going. And he had his little group, him and Sir Jinx, and they used to come up to the radio station [KDAY, Los Angeles, California]. And, and what people don't know is that, you know, most everything N.W.A. [Niggaz Wit Attitudes] put out in the beginning, Ice Cube wrote it. Ice Cube was a brilliant kid. He went to college, University of Arizona [Phoenix, Arizona]. He's just, he's a genius. And so him and Jinx had their group. I, I think I played it, you know, for a few weeks. It just didn't do that well, you know. But when him and Dre and him kind of came together, he, you know, he blew up. And all of those guys--a lot of people don't know this, but everybody in N.W.A. were just the nicest kids. You would trust having 'em at your house. They were not gang members. What they were is they had a lot of friends that were into it, and so they were reflecting what they heard their friends--that's what they were. They were not gangsters. However, I did see them fight before, and they could fight like [Mike] Tyson. Dre can throw, Eazy[-E]. You know, I'm going to tell you this quick story. I don't even know if you're gonna use it. But I saw--we, we had a party one night. It was a release of the N.W.A. album. And so Dre and Eazy come up, and the security wouldn't let 'em into their own party. They had rented the place. And I said, "Dude, these are the people that rented the place for the night." "Yeah, but you're not coming in dressed liked that. You gotta go take that jersey off. You gotta take that hat off." I said, "Dude, this is their image." "Nah, nah, we're not gonna do it." So I'm like, "Just hold on." So I get in to get Jerry Heller, who's their manager. And before I could get back, or get Jerry back, 'cause I had already came back. So, and Dre and Eazy were like, "Man, we're going in. We'll deal with this later." And so the dude grabbed Dre's girlfriend at the time and grabbed her by the breast and pushed her back. And why did he do that. (Laughter) You know, and then Dre is like, pow, pow, pow. And then this big tall Italian guy that was security, Eazy comes up and just jumps up on him, 'cause Eazy is real short. He just--but he's stocky. You know, he's all, he's like muscle. So Eazy just jumps up and locks on his head (laughter), and he just starts pounding him. He had a big ring that had an E on it. There was E's all over this guy's head. And finally, the guy fell down to his knees. And when he fell down to his knees, then Eazy just started wailing on him. Right about that time Jerry comes up. But when Jerry comes up, all of a sudden there's cop cars, 'cause this was like in the Beverly Center [Los Angeles, California]. You know, this is, you know, you don't come up in a white area and start doing this. And so there was cops coming from everywhere. Needless to say, they had to leave. They couldn't come into their own party because these guys were being A-holes. But I got to see 'em in action, and I was just blown away that these guys could fight like that. But they're just calm kids, you know. And there was rumors that Eazy got his money from drugs. And, and I'll be honest with you, I don't know. I really don't know. He used to laugh about it, said, "Man, you get--did you start this with drug money?" He'd start laughing, "Man, they making stuff up." And then sometimes you'd ask him, you know. "Yeah, I had to do what I had to do." So, you never knew, and I really didn't care. It had noth--it didn't affect me one way or the other.$You know, it was kind of like I was starting to meet all these people now, and I really started to really fall in love with radio because I was, I, I really got into that. But I was also the music director at Majic [102, KMJQ, Houston, Texas]. I helped 'em, a lot more research than anything. That's how I learned the research stuff and started to build up my credentials for what was about to happen in L.A. [Los Angeles, California].$$Okay, so what kind of research are we talking about in terms of--$$Well, I would tally all the requests. I would call all the record stores and see what was selling and talk to the record companies, see what they were pushing, listen to all of the albums because I always felt like what they're pushing and what we wanna play are two different things, you know. And so I was trying to see if there are songs that maybe they weren't pushing on the album that might fit. And most of the time what the record companies did back then is they would put their best sin- they'd leave the best single on the album because they wanted you to go buy the album. They didn't make any money when you'd go buy the 45 or the 12-inch. And so they'd leave the best song on there. And I was always trying to find that best song, you know. And so, when I went to KDAY [Los Angeles, California] and they asked me to be the music director like within a week, I said sure, and I implemented that, you know. But we were very in tune to the streets. I've always felt like if you know the streets, if you're hip to the streets, if you know what people are listening to, that's how you win. We actually did give the people what they want. So many stations say more variety, more this, more that, and it's bull, bull crap. And I actually did. And so when they asked me to be the music director, they said, "Well, what do you, what do you think?" I said, "Well, give me a few days." And basically, when I got here I was living in the heart of South Central L.A., which back then was not probably the most desirable neighborhood. But you didn't even have to roll your window down. People were rolling buy, and they were playing Run-DMC, they were playing Kurtis Blow, Sugarhill Gang. And I'm like, wait a minute. You know, nobody's really, you know, playing this on the radio. They had played Sugarhill Gang when I was at KTSA [San Antonio, Texas]. And they looked at it as novelty, you know, just like they did 'Disco Duck' when Rick Dees came out. So they thought rap was novelty. And then they played Run-DMC when they came out. But, again, it was novelty. It was never taken seriously. And so when I got to L.A., and that's like all that you heard in the streets was rap, and so I told Jack [Patterson] and Ed [Kerby], I said, "Well, here's what we're gonna do, you know. You guys are gonna allow me to do what I wanna do?" "Well, yeah." But the rap stuff they'd only, in the beginning they would only let me play it at night. They wouldn't let me play it during the day, so I had to do what they called day parting. And so they started letting me put it on at night. And the ratings at night just, bam! And the very first rating book, the very first ninety days KDAY's numbers just jumped. And they were like--you know, 'cause it was like at that time five black stations. We weren't competing with the whole market. We were just competing with the other black stations. KDAY went from number five to two immediately, so they were very, very happy. "What, what, what are you doing? What's going on?" "It's that rap, man, you know." And so they started allowing me to put it on throughout the day.

A. Grace Lee Mims

Radio host and vocalist A. Grace Lee Mims was born on July 17, 1930 in Snow Hill, Alabama to musicians Arnold W. and Alberta Grace Edwards Lee. Mims graduated valedictorian from Snow Hill Institute, which was founded by her grandfather. She went on to attend and graduate from Hampton University in Hampton, Virginia, and later received her M.L.S degree from Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio.

Upon graduation, Mims married Howard A. Mims. She was also hired as a librarian in Detroit, Michigan before moving to Cleveland, where she worked at several branches of the Cleveland Public Library. Mims was employed as head librarian at Glenville High School for ten years, where she coordinated the Black Arts Festival, established the most extensive collection of books on African American history and culture in the State of Ohio, and helped found the first Afrocentric lecture course in the Cleveland Public Schools. In 1976, she created and became hostess and producer of “The Black Arts” on WCLV-FM, Cleveland’s classical music radio station. From 1980 to 2010, Mims produced and hosted WCLV’s “Artslog,” a daily five-minute show of interviews. Also in 1980, she was hired as a voice teacher at the Cleveland Music School Settlement.

Mims has served as soprano soloist at Fairmount Presbyterian Church, as soloist with the William Appling singers, as well as throughout the Cleveland area. She was a member of The Cleveland Orchestra Chorus and Chamber Chorus under Robert Shaw, and performed with The New York Bass Violin Choir. In addition, Mims has recorded two albums: “Spirituals,” a solo record, and “A Spirit Speaks” with her family’s jazz-folk ensemble, The Descendants of Mike and Phoebe.

Mims has received numerous honors, including an honorary doctorate of music from Cleveland State University in 1999. In 2007, she was the honoree of the Greater Cleveland Chapter of The National Coalition of the 100 Black Women, Inc., and a recipient the Cleveland Arts Prize Martha Joseph Award in 2011. Mims has also served on many arts-related boards, including the Cleveland Institute of Music, the Cleveland Museum of Art, the Cleveland Orchestra's Community Project, the Cleveland Arts Prize Committee, the Western Reserve Historical Society's Black History Archives and The Rainey Institute. Mims and her husband ran the Cleveland Hampton Institute Alumni Scholarship program for over thirty years.

A. Grace Lee Mims was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 14, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.071

Sex

Female

Interview Date

2/14/2014

Last Name

Mims

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widow

Middle Name

Grace

Occupation
Schools

Case Western Reserve University

Hampton University

Snow Hill Institute

Cleveland State University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

A.

Birth City, State, Country

Snow Hill

HM ID

MIM02

Favorite Season

None

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Ohio

Birth Date

7/17/1930

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Cleveland

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Radio host and vocalist A. Grace Lee Mims (1930 - ) has hosted “The Black Arts” and “Artslog” on Cleveland’s WCLV-FM radio for over thirty years. She is an accomplished vocalist and has been a voice teacher at the Cleveland Music School Settlement since 1980.

Employment

Detroit Public Library

Cleveland Public Library

Cleveland Orchestra Chorus

Glenville High School

WCLV-FM

Cleveland Music School Settlement

The Descendants of Mike and Phoebe

U.S. Government

Hampton University

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
0,0:3630,37:11096,91:18770,172:26322,293:27414,306:35670,394:36020,400:58869,752:59214,758:60525,781:72175,943:84375,1115:84975,1127:86025,1146:86475,1153:87900,1181:88350,1188:113587,1524:117948,1570:121953,1620:134796,1739:143172,1826:145314,1851:187642,2357:188258,2365:193010,2437:218450,2720:219170,2730:223325,2762:241200,2988:253068,3155:272784,3364:282556,3520:295646,3758:299290,3824$0,0:2000,29:14284,170:14660,175:26074,435:27154,454:28306,526:28666,533:29458,542:30106,552:31474,578:32122,588:48670,768:48934,773:51442,827:51904,835:55742,881:56852,904:58110,938:58406,943:65007,1007:70734,1125:71217,1134:72666,1171:73563,1209:82910,1357:97070,1472:100414,1536:103606,1602:114946,1694:115324,1701:116017,1714:118978,1783:120301,1809:124758,1853:126294,1890:126934,1901:127574,1919:128086,1928:129494,1963:137583,2039:145998,2133:149898,2185:150444,2193:160412,2273:174782,2376:179890,2406:180860,2413
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Grace Mims' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Grace Mims lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Grace Mims discusses her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Grace Mims talks about her maternal grandfather's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Grace Mims attempts to remember the founding date of Snow Hill Normal and Industrial Institute

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Grace Mims talks about her mother's childhood experiences as a piano prodigy

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Grace Mims talks about the John Work Coral in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Grace Mims shares the story of her parents' elopement in the early 1900s

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Grace Mims briefly describes her father's early work history

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Grace Mims discusses her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Grace Mims traces her father's career path from Spelman College to Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Grace Mims talks about her parents' love of jazz and classical music

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Grace Mims talks about how her parents' careers influenced her upbringing

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Grace Mims talks about her childhood family's band

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Grace Mims describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Grace Mims talks about her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Grace Mims describes Snow Hill Normal and Industrial Institute and the surrounding neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Grace Mims talks about the origin of her home town's name

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Grace Mims briefly describes the demographics and business culture of her home town and the surrounding area

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Grace Mims shares how church and college shaped her musical influences and knowledge

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Grace Mims describes how music influenced her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Grace Mims describes how African Americans have shaped American music

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Grace Mims compares and contrasts the Negro spiritual and gospel music

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Grace Mims talks about influential Negro spiritual composers

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Grace Mims discusses how her teachers and parents influenced her decision to go to college

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - Grace Mims shares how her teacher influenced her to become a librarian

Tape: 2 Story: 15 - Grace Mims recalls rarely traveling outside of her hometown during her childhood

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Grace Mims shares memories of her grandfather

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Grace Mims talks about Mary McLeod Bethune and other well-known African Americans who visited Snow Hill Normal and Industrial Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Grace Mims talks about her grandfather's autobiography

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Grace Mims describes her academic accomplishments at Snow Hill Normal and Industrial Institute, and the school's influence on the surrounding community

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Grace Mims describes her extracurricular activities in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Grace Mims discusses her experiences at Hampton Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Grace Mims talks about the early years of her marriage and her career

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Grace Mims describes her experiences at Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Music School Settlement

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Grace Mims describes her work as a librarian and her work on the Eusi SiKuki Festival in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Grace Mims talks about her husband's, Howard Mims' role in the Black Studies Movement and the importance of African American history and culture

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Grace Mims describes the area surrounding Glenville High School

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Grace Mims talks about her civic involvement in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Grace Mims talks about performing with the Cleveland Orchestra Chorus

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Grace Mims talks about her family's singing group, The Descendants of Mike and Phoebe, part 1

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Grace Mims talks about her cousin Donald Stone

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Grace Mims talks about performing with her family's band, The Descendants of Mike and Phoebe, part 2

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Grace Mims talks about hosting "The Black Arts" program on Cleveland's WCLV-FM classical music station

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Grace Mims describes her nephews, filmmakers Spike Lee and Malcom D. Lee

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Grace Mims briefly discusses her radio show "Arts Log"

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Grace Mims talks about support of the arts

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Grace Mims shares her thoughts about contemporary music

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Grace Mims talks about performing with the William Appling Singers

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Grace Mims talks about performing as a soprano for the Fairmount Presbyterian Church

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Grace Mims describes teaching at the Cleveland Music School Settlement

Tape: 4 Story: 13 - Grace Mims discusses her philosophy about teaching and music

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Grace Mims reflects upon her career and her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Grace Mims describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Grace Mims reflects upon her lack of desire to write a book about black music

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Grace Mims talks about individuals who share her musical philosophy

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Grace Mims describes her influence on the future of classically-trained musical artists

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Grace Mims discusses the life and legacy of her late husband Howard A. Mims

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Grace Mims shares how she wants to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Grace Mims describes her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$3

DAStory

5$4

DATitle
Grace Mims talks about hosting "The Black Arts" program on Cleveland's WCLV-FM classical music station
Grace Mims describes her academic accomplishments at Snow Hill Normal and Industrial Institute, and the school's influence on the surrounding community
Transcript
So, now you started--tell us how you started "The Black Arts" Show?$$As I told you I loved classical music so WCLV [FM] is Cleveland's classical music station. So I would always listen to it. And they had of course all the, you know Italian, blah, blah, blah, but they had a program for the Jewish hour, Catholic hour; nothing for Blacks. So I called Bob Conrad and said, what do you think about having a program that features the contributions that Blacks have made to classical music? He said come in and talk to me about it. At that time the--they were down at Terminal Tower which is a big, tall tower downtown [Cleveland, Ohio]. And so I went down and told him what I had in mind and some of the artists I had in mind and he said well do a trial program for me. I did that trial program. I did it with Jessye Norman. Jessye Norman. And he liked it and he said I would like to have you continue to do this but you must do it at least six months. I would, you know, you must agree to do it for at least six months and I've been there, what's it 37 years? Is that 37? [Laughter].$$Now this is--your first, your trial show is with Jessye Norman?$$Yeah.$$And now was Jessye Norman as big a star then as she is now?$$Was she what?$$Was she as big a star then--?$$She was a big star at the time. Yeah--$$Right, okay.$$--because I had records and CDs to play, you know.$$Yeah.$$But my first show turned, I did Leontyne Price, the first, you know when he--when I was on in May of 1976, I did Leontyne Price. And every five years I repeat that because I--the title was Leontyne Price in Prayer, you know, and used a lot of Verdi Arias and things at where she would be--the heroine would be praying as well as at the end. And I always try to use spirituals at the end of my show that would you know--songs that had prayer in them or in the title. Like, "I Couldn't Hear Nobody Pray" or whatever. So that's what I did.$$So--$$And that's what I still do.$$Okay. So did the station manager know who Jessye Norman was when--?$$Oh yes, everybody knew who these classical artists are.$$Okay.$$And I try to pay tribute to them on their birthdays. I find out when their birthdays are cause I just did Leontyne Price. She was born in February, and coming up Marian Anderson's birthday, you know, I try to do birthdays. And I did Joe Wilder who is a trumpet player who was the--a forerunner of Wynton Marsalis because he can play classical and jazz. And he's 93, I believe now coming up. I just saw in the New York Times that they're doing some kind of tribute to him and he's on up there now. But I try to acknowledge them on their birthdays. I usually do Miles Davis and Duke Ellington, but I usually have classical artists. And if new people are coming in all the time I try to you know, spotlight them as well.$$Okay. So you do like a weekly show--$$Weekly show, Wednesday nights from 10 [p.m.] to 11 [p.m.], weekly, one hour show.$$Now did the show ever interfere with your performances on the road with The Descendants?$$If they do, I you know, I'm not traveling anymore you know so--$$I mean in those days.$$In those days--$$Yeah.$$I could record, put it in, in advance, you know. Like I said we weren't out for two and three weeks. We would you know go to a college and, couple of days at the most, you know. You do your rehearsal and the concert and come back home.$$Okay.$$So it wasn't a matter of being out for a long period of time, no. And certainly didn't interfere and if it did I would just tape it another day.$$So, now did you have children during this period of time?$$For--did my husband and I have children? No, I don't have any children.$$Oh okay, all right. So you didn't have to worry about trying to take care of children and--$$No.$$--travel and all that.$$No.$$Okay, all right.$Now did you have any--I mean could you afford to get bad grades when you were growing up?$$Never thought about it. Always, just came natural. I was valedictorian of my high school at Snow Hill [Industrial and Normal Institute, Snow Hill, Alabama]. And so I never even thought about bad grades, didn't think about bad grades when I went to Hampton [Institute, Hampton, Virginia]. I graduated second in my class at Hampton. I'm just wondering, now was Snow Hill [Normal and Industrial Institute, Snow Hill, Alabama] sort of like a cultural gathering place for the rest of the community there, you know? You--I imagine some of the school--did Snow Hill have a library too?$$Yeah, we had a library.$$You had a library. So you had all--yeah. So--$$But it was just a warm feeling. The people didn't come on campus except for special occasions you know. But there was a tree and around that tree was a bench and they would wait for the mail there and that--that's where all the community gossip and stuff would go on. That's where the men said they heard Ms. Stedward's daughter got married. But anyway, everybody met and that was just down a slope from my [maternal] grandfather's [William James Edwards] house and everybody would gather around that tree for mail. And the mail would--the Rural Free Delivery, FDR [RFD]. You know we had--and it was a white man who came--Mr. Stabler, he was very nice and he drove over and gave us--everybody their mail.$$Okay.$$But people lived on over--it felt very you know, warmly towards the school but they weren't down there all the time. I mean it was a school. It was a school and it was for the people who came and were down there as boarding school students and teachers who lived with them in the dormitory who were the dormitory school masters as well as teachers. So--$$I didn't ask you about the students but who were--are there any remarkable students who were there or people that are memorable that you remember from your Snow Hill school days?$$I don't remember any outstanding students when I was there. My mother [Alberta Edwards Lee] had written information about the school and she gave it to us. I think I gave you a copy of that. But I can't remember anybody in, you know during my era that was--became famous except Bill Lee [brother] was probably, you know--Spike's dad Bill was somewhat famous with his composing and playing in jazz groups.

Pam Morris

Radio host Pam Morris was born and raised in West Virginia. She graduated from St. Albans High School and West Virginia State College.

In 1989, Morris was appointed by Mayor Richard M. Daley as an event coordinator for the City of Chicago and as head producer for the Chicago Gospel Music Festival. Morris also created and coordinated Mayor Daley's annual Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Interfaith Breakfast. She went on to serve as interfaith liaison for the United States House of Representatives in the Second District of Illinois.

In 2000, Morris was hired as a radio personality at WVON-AM in Chicago, where she went on to host "Gospel with Pam Morris." She worked at WWHN 1510-AM and WGCI-AM; and, for seven years, hosted the radio program entitled "The Inspirational Gospel Stroll," on WVAZ-FM. Morris also hosted "Gospel with Pam Morris" on cable television. In addition, she has worked as an international Gospel consultant for The Umbria Jazz Festival in Perugia, Italy; The Gospel and Soul Easter Festival in Terni, Italy; and The Tree of Life Gospel Event in Durbin, South Africa. She served as a consultant to the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival, and was appointed lead ambassador for the American Heart Association’s Most Powerful Voices Gospel Tour. In 2009, Morris retired as event coordinator for the City of Chicago and founded the nonprofit organization P. Morris & Associates.

Morris has received numerous awards for her work. She was the 2006 Stellar Award recipient for Gospel Radio announcer of the year. She also received the 2010 Who's Who in Black Chicago Award; the 2010 Living Faith Church Lifetime Achievement Legacy Award; the City of Chicago Appreciation Award; the 2012 National Council of Negro Women Media Award; and N'Digo's N'Religion Award. Morris also served on the Grammy Board of Governors of the National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences - Chicago Chapter.

Morris has recorded two Gospel albums, and is the author of the book Lessons Learned from Aunt Mabel and So Much More.

Pam Morris was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on January 23, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.023

Sex

Female

Interview Date

1/23/2014

Last Name

Morris

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Jacqueline

Occupation
Schools

Tackett Creek School

St. Albans High School

West Virginia State University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Pam

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

MOR15

Favorite Season

Christmas

State

West Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Montego Bay, Jamaica

Favorite Quote

I Love You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

12/20/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Salmon

Short Description

Radio host Pam Morris (1949 - ) , founder of P. Morris & Associates, is the host of WVON-AM’s "Gospel with Pam Morris," and was head producer for the Chicago Gospel Music Festival for over twenty years. She is the author of the book Lessons Learned from Aunt Mabel and So Much More.

Employment

WVON Radio

United States House of Representatives

City of Chicago

V103 Radio

1390

Favorite Color

Black, Puple, Red

Timing Pairs
0,0:996,9:17898,255:36758,629:39564,728:39808,741:64312,1098:64858,1106:101170,1465:101535,1472:102484,1491:102849,1497:105185,1557:106937,1597:107229,1602:117148,1720:117760,1733:122112,1796:128572,1919:129864,1948:137046,2063:143877,2234:153050,2375$0,0:6088,175:7988,232:8292,245:10952,297:15208,382:19540,490:19996,497:26332,521:31710,594:37408,666:37798,672:39982,717:45052,826:47548,864:52186,897:55150,942:57568,995:58114,1003:61590,1009:62380,1023:63170,1037:64592,1071:67278,1121:85221,1403:91426,1552:106663,1750:107373,1755:107870,1763:108367,1776:109787,1811:121356,1929:123256,1957:123712,1964:126068,2004:132398,2075:132743,2081:133226,2091:136400,2163:143616,2253:144026,2259:145420,2281:145748,2287:146404,2296:148228,2323:148641,2333:159123,2494:159488,2500:160145,2513:160802,2526:161094,2531:161386,2536:161970,2550:174873,2709:175524,2717:178686,2757:183556,2784:190442,2844:194398,2884:199734,2948:200194,2954:205698,2995:218812,3165:220136,3182:224888,3271:225416,3282:225746,3288:230696,3400:231818,3426:237908,3446:238492,3456:243748,3528:244405,3538:245427,3555:245865,3562:254378,3660:254718,3666:261216,3715:262602,3742:265550,3764:268126,3787:268350,3792:268630,3798:269190,3811:269638,3821:269862,3826:270814,3856:277410,3938:297777,4204:305854,4255:310166,4311:317070,4361:317595,4367:324432,4409:328302,4471:328646,4476:330194,4500:338020,4560
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Pam Morris' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Pam Morris lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Pam Morris describes her maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Pam Morris talks about her mother, Paskalena Page

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Pam Morris talks about her father, John Brown

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Pam Morris describes being raised by her Aunt Mabel

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Pam Morris describes her likeness to Aunt Mabel

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about Aunt Mabel's work as a minister

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Pam Morris describes the Apostolic Free Church of God Church on Redds Hill in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Pam Morris shares her childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Pam Morris describes the sights, sounds, and smells of St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Pam Morris describes growing up on a farm in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Pam Morris describes her great grandfather greeting a date with his shotgun

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Pam Morris recalls the music and television of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Pam Morris describes her school memories

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Pam Morris describes her Uncle Beauford

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Pam Morris describes her church experiences as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Pam Morris describes attending Tackett Creek Elementary School in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about her childhood activities

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Pam Morris describes Aunt Mabel's reluctance to be active in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Pam Morris describes the magazines she read while growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Pam Morris describes the students at St. Albans High School in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Pam Morris talks about being raised in a strict household

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Pam Morris talks about her senior year at St. Albans High School and her decision to attend West Virginia State College

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Pam Morris describes working at her grandfather's store

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Pam Morris remembers how she was viewed at St. Albans High School in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Pam Morris describes attending West Virginia State College in Institute, West Virginia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Pam Morris talks about attempting to reconnect with her mother

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Pam Morris describes the importance of prayer in her life

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Pam Morris recounts moving to New York to live with her mother

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Pam Morris recalls marrying John Morris in 1969 and having two children

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about being a minister's wife and recording an album with her husband

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Pam Morris talks about her church and radio activities in Chicago, Illinois in 1975

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Pam Morris describes the gospel music scene in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Pam Morris talks about working on Charles Sherrell's radio program

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Pam Morris describes the popular gospel shows and performers during the 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Pam Morris describes the content and sponsors of Charles Sherrell's radio program

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Pam Morris talks about hosting programs and events

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Pam Morris describes how she selected music for the programs she hosted

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Pam Morris remembers Harold Washington's campaign for Mayor of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Pam Morris describes her radio career in the 1980s

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about her relationship with HistoryMaker Juanita Passmore

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Pam Morris remembers visiting Aunt Mabel as an adult

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Pam Morris remembers meeting Mahalia Jackson and Albertina Walker

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Pam Morris talks about the gospel legends she met

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Pam Morris recalls becoming the Special Events Coordinator for the Chicago Gospel Music Festival

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Pam Morris talks about Chicago festivals

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Pam Morris describes her work on the Chicago Gospel Music Festival

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Pam Morris talks about the role of prayer in her life

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Pam Morris comments on the political and civic involvement of ministers in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Pam Morris shares the highlights of her twenty-year tenure as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival.

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Pam Morris describes the various genres within gospel music

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Pam Morris defines gospel music

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Pam Morris talks about the business of gospel music

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Pam Morris talks about deciding to leave her position as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Pam Morris talks about deciding to leave her position as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Pam Morris recounts the challenges she faced as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Pam Morris talks about the Umbria Jazz Festival in Perugia, Italy

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Pam Morris describes the life lessons that Aunt Mabel taught her

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Pam Morris talks about her current relationship with her mother

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Pam Morris talks about her children

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Pam Morris talks about her awards

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Pam Morris reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Pam Morris talks about her radio show

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Pam Morris talks about her regrets

Tape: 6 Story: 11 - Pam Morris describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 12 - Pam Morris narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

4$7

DATitle
Pam Morris talks about hosting programs and events
Pam Morris shares the highlights of her twenty-year tenure as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival.
Transcript
Okay, so your show is catching on, and did you-- the logical growth, outgrowth of a good radio show is live events with the performers--(simultaneous)--$$Um-hum, I would do, host programs, started to host programming, started, people start calling me up, asking me to host. Would you please come to my church? Antioch [Missionary Baptist Church] was the first church I went to. Reverend Daniels [Wilbur Daniel] was so sweet. He was such a wonderful person. He was always so kind. He loved his wife [Marguerite Richards]. Oh, my God, he loved his wife. She loved me, she just thought I was the most loveliest person. She said, and I want to thank you for your music 'cause you know how to play music. I'll never forget that. Those were some great days.$$Okay, so you did your first public program there?$$Um-hum.$$And who was on the program? Do you remember who was on the program at Antioch Church?$$No, other than his choir, I don't remember who else sang? I don't.$$Okay, but you were just like the host for the program?$$Um-hum, I introduced.$$Okay.$$And that just started, where I started just going from one place to the other. I mean a whole lot of it.$$So people were coming, I mean you were a draw then since they heard you on the radio, you were a draw for their programs?$$They were coming to see me and shake my hand and give me a hug, for real. It made my day and theirs. I think I was flight somebody. I want to say I was Flight 1570, take a flight with me. I think that, I had a little cliche or something going on there. I think I did. I'd have to ask Ron Baker that because I remember him coming over to the station. But I think I did have something like Flight 1570. I want to say that was the call letters, 1570.$$Okay, AM radio?$$Uh-huh, AM radio, 1570. That wasn't WVON.$$No, no.$$No, I think it was 1570.$$This is Charles Sherrell's station.$$Sherrell, yeah, I think I was a flight.$$I'm sorry. I can't think of the call letters right now, but anybody--(simultaneous)--$$But I think I was on a flight.$$--who wants to research it can find it.$$Okay, I think I was on a flight, and I was saying, "Come go with me on my flight. I'm gon' take you somewhere", and I would take you. And then when I would host, I would say, "Come meet me, 'cause we've landed. So come on over and meet me." And that's how people were hugging me and-$But back to the fest [Chicago Gospel Music Festival] itself, what are some of the--now, you were the--(simultaneous)--$$Oh, and, but speaking of Reverend [Clay] Evans, let me take you back to the fest--$$Okay, okay.$$--and say that even when he wouldn't make meetings, he'd call me up and tell me about somebody. He said, I think so and so need to be, put this down, consider this person, consider them. He would do that.$$Oh, to be on the committee?$$He was on the committee. So he was always helpful to me, had some great resources there. I was good, but I was better because of the help that I had.$$Okay.$$You gotta give credit where credit is due, had some great people working with me.$$Well, are there any special moments from the Gospel Festival, you wanna share with us, 'cause you did this for--$$Twenty years.$$Twenty years, yeah.$$Twenty years, so many. It's so many. I could go back, I could go back to Mom and Pop Winans, sitting on the side of the stage, Mom and Pop Winans sitting there saying, "Now, that's what I like right there", and I think at that time, it was Doc McKenzie and the Highlights singing "I've Won". And they're sitting on the side of the stage. I can go back to Solomon Burke when we went to Millennium Park, and he was one of, he was one of the featured performers. And they laid the red carpet out for him, and he sat in throne chair, or whatever you call that big chair he sat in. And he sang and he sat back there and sang, and people loved him, but it wasn't until Rance Allen came on behind him that people went crazy.$$So they performed with him?$$No, they performed after him.$$After him, yeah.$$Uh-huh, with Destiny's Choir. I think his choir was one of those choirs that performed with him or with Solomon Burke. It's just so many highlights. I can go back to when we honored Andrae Crouch and how beautiful that time was. And then let me tell you about this wonderful experience, of sitting at a gospel supreme, Pastor Maceo Woods, Evening of Gospel Elegance and, at Christ Universal, and I look over at one of my board members. Actually, it was Pastor DeAndre Patterson, and I had a "Ah-hah Moment", like Oprah [Winfrey] would say, an "Ah-hah" moment. And I said, I wanna take elegance to Grant Park or to Millennium Park, downtown Chicago [Illinois]. And I just felt something from how he was doing what he was doing where I wanted to bring an evening of gospel elegance to the festival. And I met with Fred Nelson, one of our board members. He said, we can make this happen.$$Now, what characterizes an evening of gospel elegance?$$A gospel evening of elegance is when you dress up in your tux, in your long gowns, and you come out and you present yourself accordingly. And you add into that a stringed instrument like a violinist or an opera singer or a tenor singer as we added in one of those performances from Three Men--Cook, Dixon and Young.$$Yeah, the Three Mo' Tenors.$$Added Dixon in there. Oh, my God, you talking about a evening of elegance. He steps out in his tuxedo and sings in that baritone voice, and it rings throughout the park. Oh, my God, and we dressed up too. Nothing like it, nothing like it, and God blessed us to do this for the City of Chicago for over a dozen years or close to a dozen years, that particular segment on a Saturday evening in downtown Chicago. Just get up, get dressed and come on down to the park and feel special. And every group was great now. I can go from the Barrett Sisters. Let me tell you another important part of this was Pastor Archbishop Lucius Hall, one of our board members. Arch Bishop Lucius Hall walked into one of the board members, one board meeting and said, I'd like to work in this area. And he helped us recognizing living legends, people that never really had a chance to come down and be honored that were still performing. And you had to be now over a certain age now. You couldn't be fifty, couldn't be fifty-five. I'm not even sure if you were sixty, might have been over that. But he was over that segment and presented them--oh, I could just go on and on, the Caravans, all of them, the Caravans, Dr. Albertina Walker, Delores Washington Green, Shirley Caesar, Dorothy Norwood, oh, just--I could just go on and on.$$Shirley Caesar.$$Oh, my God, it was just, oh. Israel Houghton of, and New Breed, the Clark Sisters. Oh, the Winans, Take 6, I could just go on and on in telling you how we were blessed to bless many people with great music during our tenure for the City of Chicago. Yeah, wonderful.

Callie Crossley

Radio talk show host Callie Crossley was born in Memphis, Tennessee. After graduating from Memphis’ Central High school, she earned her B.A. in English in 1973 from Wellesley College. Crossley was also awarded two fellowships at Harvard University – a Nieman fellowship from the Nieman Foundation for Journalism and a fellowship from the Institute of Politics at the John F. Kennedy School of Government. She also served as a Woodrow Wilson Visiting Fellow at The Council of Independent Colleges.

Crossley began her career in media and journalism in 1974 as a local news reporter for WREC in Memphis. She then moved to WTHR-TV in Indianapolis, Indiana where she specialized in health reporting, and later was a general assignment reporter for WGBH’s The Ten O’clock News – Boston’s only live, daily, public news program. She returned to WGBH as a news reporter being awarded a Nieman Fellowship in 1982. In 1987, Crossley joined Blackside, Inc. where she worked on the six-hour documentary series “Eyes on the Prize: America’s Civil Rights Years: 1954-1965,” which aired on PBS. While there, she partnered with producer Jim DeVinney to produce, write, and direct two hours of the “Eyes on the Prize” series: “No Easy Walk: 1961-1963” and “Bridge to Freedom: 1965.” Crossley was then brought on as a producer for ABC Television Network’s “20/20” news magazine where her stories focused on health and medicine. In 1989, Crossley became a senior producer for the ABC News primetime special “Black in White America” (1989) and began appearing on WGBH-TV’s media criticism program, “Beat the Press.”

Returning to Blackside, Inc. in 2000, Crossley was made the senior producer for the PBS series, “This Far By Faith: African American Spiritual Journeys.” She joined WGBH Radio in 2010 and began hosting “The Callie Crossley Show,” a one-hour, live, call-in program. On July 9, 2012, she debuted as the host and moderator of the two-hour live “Boston Public Radio;” and, in early 2013, she began hosting “Under the Radar with Callie Crossley.” Crossley has served as host of WGBH-TV’s “Basic Black” and as a television and radio commentator on other local, as well as national programs. She also appeared as a contributor on “The Takeaway,” which aired on National Public Radio (NPR); Fox Television Station’s “Fox 25 Morning News”; “Reliable Sources” on CNN; and “News Hour,” which aired on PBS.

Crossley has received multiple journalism and film awards, most notably for her work on the acclaimed documentary series “Eyes on the Prize,” which earned her an Oscar nomination, a National Emmy, a Peabody Award, an Edward R. Murrow Award, and the Alfred I. DuPont-Columbia Award (Gold Baton). In 2012, the Ford Hall Forum honored her with its George W. Coleman Award; and, in 2013, she received the Wellesley Alumnae Achievement Award. Crossley has an Honorary Doctorate of Arts degree from Pine Manor College and an Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters from Cambridge College.

Callie Crossley was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 23, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.118

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/23/2013

Last Name

Crossley

Maker Category
Marital Status

Single

Occupation
Schools

Wellesley College

Harvard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Callie

Birth City, State, Country

Memphis

HM ID

CRO09

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Tennessee

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

He who tells the stories rules the world.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Birth Date

11/21/1951

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Boston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Louisiana Food, Memphis Barbecue

Short Description

Radio host Callie Crossley (1951 - ) earned an Oscar® nomination, a National Emmy and the Alfred I. Dupont-Columbia Award (Gold Baton) for her role producing “Eyes on the Prize: America’s Civil Rights Years 1954-1965.” She is a former producer for ABC Television Networks’ “20/20” news magazine program and the primetime special “Black in White America.”

Employment

WGBH Radio

Boston Public Radio

WREC-Memphis

Blackside, Inc.

ABC News.

Favorite Color

Chartreuse, Purple

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Callie Crossley's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley shares her maternal family history, remembering a great aunt born in slavery

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley describes her maternal grandparents and her mother's school experience

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley remembers the family her mother stayed with to attend high school

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley details her mother's college education and experience

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley recounts a story of her mother experiencing racism

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley describes her father's family history and the land they owned in Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Callie Crossley describes her father's upbringing and education

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Callie Crossley describes her parents' marriage and move to Memphis, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Callie Crossley describes her parents' move to Memphis, Tennessee after their graduation from Southern University, Louisiana

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley describes in more detail her parents' personality and their relationship

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley talks about her sister, Fayre, and her personality

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley remembers growing up in South Memphis, Tennessee, while describing her neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley describes her religious upbringing

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley describes how her church was not particularly involved in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley shares her early childhood memories of her neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Callie Crossley describes her elementary school education

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Callie Crossley describes her mother as open-minded

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Callie Crossley describes herself as a student

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Callie Crossley shares her experiences in junior high school

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Callie Crossley discusses the 1968 NAACP case that led to her attending Central High School in Memphis

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley shares her memories of the days leading up to Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination in Memphis

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley remembers what happened the day of Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination in Memphis

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley describes her experience being one of the first black students at Central High School in Memphis

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley recalls some of her favorite books on black history

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley recounts the lack of social life at Central High School, Memphis

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley recounts her parents' advice during high school

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley describes her acceptance into Wellesley College, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Callie Crossley talks about her positive experience at Wellesley College, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Callie Crossley remembers people who influenced her at Wellesley College, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley remembers the shift from 'Negro' to 'black' during the 1960's

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley recalls her interest in broadcast journalism at Wellesley College, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley recounts being hired by WREC in Memphis, Tennessee

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley describes being a black woman in the 1970's newsroom

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley recalls moving to WTHR in Indianapolis, Indiana and honing her skills

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley describes changes in the 1970s with black journalists

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley recalls going to her first NABJ Convention

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Callie Crossley describes her move to public broadcasting at WGBH Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Callie Crossley shares her experiences at WGBH in Boston in the 1980s

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley describes WBGH's focus on children's and artistic programming

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley shares memorable stories she produced while at WGBH in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley talks about her Harvard University Neiman Fellowship and Henry Hampton's 'Eyes on the Prize' documentary

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley shares her experience working on 'Eyes on the Prize' with Henry Hampton, part 1

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley continues to share her memories of working on 'Eyes on the Prize', part 2

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley discusses Hampton's choice of Julian Bond as the narrator of 'Eyes on the Prize'

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley recalls the challenges of working on an independent production of 'Eyes on the Prize'

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Callie Crossley shares her favorite part of working on 'Eyes on the Prize'

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley remembers 'Eyes on the Prize' being nominated for an Academy Award

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley recalls joining ABC TV

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley shares a story of her work at ABC TV's '20/20'

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley recalls working on 'Black in White America'

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley describes leaving ABC T.V. after its purchase by Disney in 2001

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley discusses her work on the project 'This Far By Faith' in 2003

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley talks about her radio show 'The Callie Crossley Show', part 1

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Callie Crossley talks about 'The Callie Crossley Show', part 2

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Callie Crossley discusses her additional media prospects

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Callie Crossley describes the end of 'The Callie Crossley Show'

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Callie Crossley discusses some of the memorable guests she had on her radio show

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Callie Crossley describes her awards

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Callie Crossley talks about her show, 'Under the Radar with Callie Crossley'

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Callie Crossley shares her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Callie Crossley talks about what she wishes to work on in the future

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Callie Crossley talks post-racial America

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Callie Crossley regrets some missed opportunities in her career

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Callie Crossley reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 11 - Callie Crossley talks about her family

Tape: 7 Story: 12 - Callie Crossley discusses her journalistic philosophy as inclusion and accuracy

Tape: 7 Story: 13 - Callie Crossley describers how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$5

DAStory

1$5

DATitle
Callie Crossley shares her experiences at WGBH in Boston in the 1980s
Callie Crossley shares her experience working on 'Eyes on the Prize' with Henry Hampton, part 1
Transcript
Okay. So WGBH [Public Broadcasting Service member station Boston, Massachusetts] 1980, you're doing the news, long news casting. Is it similar to the 'PBS Hourly', I mean the nightly news?$$I suppose, except it was a very much a local--it was a local show. I mean it was focused on local news. What's interesting now is a lot of that reporting that we did back in the day is archived and many other places, local places here, around the country and network, have tapped into it, because we were covering some events that have--of course, so much that happens in Boston [Massachusetts] has a national impact, and we were doing a lot of that coverage. So we did some of the first stories on, you know, HIV, on, you know, a lot of the bussing stories, I mean, just name it-$$Is the bussing issue still real hot here?$$It was hot and--so there was, you know, a lot of the stuff that we covered just as a matter of fact is now in our archives and is accessed by many scholars and other reporters and whatever. So when you ask is it like the 'PBS News Hour', it is to some degree in that there was a long look at many stories. We rarely went out to say there's a bad smell in the neighborhood. That piece would end up being, here's where the smell is emanating from, the policy is that created it has allowed these people to dump this in here and here's what this means and here's who created the policy and here--they're connected to this, and there was just much more layers and texture, which of course, was comfortable to me because I was--for me, because I was coming from Indianapolis [Indiana] having done short pieces really well. I was very on top of my production skills. So it was just a matter of understanding how to do a piece that had two or three moments in them as opposed to one. And that took a minute, but it turned out to be something I needed to know for the work that I was going to do later in my career. But that was my first experience with long form of any sort.$$Now, it seems to me, as I reflect back on it, 1979, '80' [1980] period was a time when public radio and television were feeling their cheerios in some ways. They were--reporting was in depth and a lot of public officials were calling out on the carpet because of things which ended, you know, shortly, a couple of years later Ronald Reagan was sliced a funding for public radio-$$Right.$$--And public T.V.[television] -$$Right.$$--As much as he possibly could. He tried to eliminate--he eliminated like 80 percent employees public radio?$$Well, you know, it's always been a ready target for folks. When I think, well to some degree, always be a ready target. I think what actually has saved public--particularly public radio in the last few years are those folks, those representatives from areas where this is the communication, where this is the communication link for a lot of their communities, particularly in the rural areas, or hard-to-reach areas and it offers a variety that people want. So, they've been able to stand up and say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, you know, this is something that my community very much enjoys and appreciates and we're not just going to do away with it at some"--or do away with the funding as some would like to have happen. So that's really been the mainstay I think in the last years when public media has come under attack. But I think you're right during that time, there were so much variety and there was--I think anything you could have picked would have been ticking off somebody in some way {laughs). But there was a lot of variety, I think, got more independent filmmakers had accessibility though not as many persons of color as filmmakers, but certainly they're just, from a topic perspective, from subject matter perspective, from--there was a lot of diversity. And they were definitely for many topics that other folks just wouldn't touch, either because they didn't have the resources to touch them or didn't think of them as important or just didn't think something the audience would watch. So to that extent there was a real intellectual diversity about what the offerings were and it allowed for the folks that did have the opportunities to create to have much more leeway in their creations which was a good thing. I mean whoever heard of--I mean, now it seems crazy, a live daily (laughs) non-commercial newscast, it happened here.$'Eyes on the Prize' [by Henry Hampton, 1987] was such a revelation. When Civil Rights are done on television it's not always done right-$$Tell me about it.$$--But this was just something that-$$And how could it not be. The way in which we did the series was so carefully done. Henry [Hampton] borrowed from a system that had started to become typical here at WGBH [Boston, Massachusetts]. Again, you know, this is a place where innovation is happening all the time. And Judith [Vecchione] had just finished working on the Vietnam ['Vietnam: A Television History', 1983] series which was many, many hours across three countries, very detailed. This was a monumental, and still remains, a monumental series trying to unravel how we got into the war, what it meant, the impact on all these countries and people and all of that. So she'd come from that. She was primed to start what was going to be a six-hour series. Henry [Hampton] had not done a series. He'd done individual hours, he'd done a lot industry work, but he'd not done--and so PBS [Public Broadcasting Service], which is where it was going to air was a little nervous. It was going to be an independent production, so he would govern it, but whether or not they aired it, depend on many things, and they felt more comfortable if he had somebody coming from quote the system, and that was Judith [Vecchione]. So she brought all of that experience and she instituted something we call "Civil Rights school'. So after he had hired all of us, we spent a week, very intense week, in school, eight hours a day or longer with historians, musicians, not all people that agreed with each other, but all manner of folk who could bring scholarship to the period and put them before us, they'd speak, we'd ask questions, and we'd, you know, take copious notes. And at the end of that, and only at the end of that, Henry [Hampton] told us which were our hours, because we knew--each team knew that we'd do two hours, but he wouldn't tell us before, and he said, "I'm not telling you before, because I want you pay attention to every piece of this, you know, if you know just what your hours are, you'll dismiss everything else. And this has to be so integral in the way that the hours stand alone, but also interact with each other, and you need to know the breadth and the depth of all the other information. Now after the week and after you're assigned, of course, you can focus on your own area, but you'll come away with having a strong foundation of where it fits in the whole context," which was a brilliant move, of course. So my head was full of everything at the end of that week then he assigned the hours and the fourth hour, the sixth hour were my hours, that's the fourth hour was Albany, Georgia, and Birmingham [Alabama], March on Washington [1963] and the sixth hour was Selma [Alabama, voting rights march, 1965] and the voting rights campaign. But as a result of having been there through "Civil Rights school" and of course working so intimately together and working really collaboratively, as it turned out, I ended up doing some interviews for other people's shows. So I did the Rosa Parks [activist, 1913-2005] interview, but she was not in my show, and I couldn't have done that without having some real understanding of what happened. But before the interviews, we did treatments that were detailed, revamped several times under both Judith's guidance and also John Else who was our director of photography, but also teaches documentary at [University of California] Berkeley and has many Oscar winning documentaries on his credits. And he had just come from working on the Harvey Milk documentary [The Times of Harvey Milk, 1984] and knowing about that, interacting with those folks who did it. So we had all of this talent of people, and again, none of these people would I have met. There were in a completely different world from me. I was in a daily newscast world and they were in the documentary--independent documentary world. It was mind-blowing for me. And just exactly the experience I was looking for without being able to articulate it coming out of the Nieman [Foundation] Fellowship [Harvard University, Massachusetts]. I wanted to be able to do something that was lasting. I didn't realize how lasting it was going to be, but this was going to be important for me, plus coming from Memphis, Tennessee, having that interest in Civil Rights, having that history interest, this all came together for me. Having worked then even in my last newsroom in a place where longer pieces were--what was valued was important to me, good writing learning that from the last two sessions all came together in a way that was perfect for this experience. And we--because it was, you know, very low budget, we worked together closely. And Henry [Hampton]'s idea was that he was going to get as much feedback as we were putting it together. So, before we went out in the field, and after the treatments, we did about six months, I would say, of nothing but research, paper research, working with our academic advisors. That was intense. We really knew that material. We knew that material, which turned out to be incredibly important. When people would mention something in passing, and because we knew our materials so well, we could understand what its importance was and pick up on it. We were able also, because we knew the material so well, to convince people who had never spoken before, and in fact, had refused to speak because they had seen these bad attempts at telling the story and were insulted and embarrassed by it and they didn't want anything to do with it. So people would literally be--about to hang up on us and we'd say, well, what about the day that you. . . they'd say, "Oh, wait a minute, you know about that." And then we'd have a conversation then they would feel more confident in talking with us. As I think about it now that was--even with that, that was still a leap of faith. 'Blackside Incorporated' [production company] was not a known entity. I think I'm calling these people these icons of the Civil Rights movements. Who the heck were we to call these people, they didn't know us. So we really had to get to a point of trust that we were going to tell this story right and well.

Michele Norris

Journalist and National Public Radio (NPR) host Michele Norris-Johnson (known as Michele Norris on NPR) was born on September 7, 1961, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, to Belvin and Elizabeth Norris. As a youth, Norris was encouraged by her parents to read the newspaper and watch the evening news. In 1979, she graduated from Minneapolis’ Washburn High School where she participated in the InRoads Program.

Norris went on to enroll at the University of Wisconsin to pursue a career as an electrical engineer. After completing three and a half years, Norris was encouraged by a dean to take political science courses. In 1982, she transferred to the University of Minnesota and majored in journalism and mass communications. There, she also wrote stories for the Minnesota Daily and was later hired by WCCO-TV as a beat reporter.

Throughout the 1980s, Norris worked as a reporter for the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, and the L.A. Times. During her stint with the Washington Post, Norris wrote a series about a six-year-old who was living in a crack house. The story was reprinted in a book entitled Ourselves Among Others. Then, in 1993, she was hired as a news correspondent for ABC News and as a contributing correspondent for the “Closer Look” segments on World News Tonight with Peter Jennings. While serving as a reporter for ABC, Norris received an Emmy Award and a Peabody Award for her contribution to the coverage of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

After working for ABC, in 2002, Norris was selected out of 100 candidates to be the host of All Things Considered, the nation’s longest-running radio program on NPR. In this capacity, Norris became the first African American female host for NPR.

In 1990, Norris won the Livingston Award for young journalists. She is a four-time entrant for the Pulitzer Prize. In 2006, she received the University of Minnesota’s Outstanding Achievement Award, and the National Association of Black Journalists’ Salute to Excellence Award. In 2007, she received Ebony magazine’s eighth annual Outstanding Women in Marketing & Communications Award.

Norris lives in Washington, D.C. with her husband Broderick Johnson and their three children.

Accession Number

A2008.078

Sex

Female

Interview Date

5/2/2008

Last Name

Norris

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Schools

Washburn High School

University of Wisconsin-Madison

Eugene Field Community School

St. Joan of Arc Catholic Elementary School

Justice Page Middle School

Susan B. Anthony Junior High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Michele

Birth City, State, Country

Minneapolis

HM ID

NOR05

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Minnesota

Favorite Vacation Destination

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts

Favorite Quote

Always Write Your Future In Pencil.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

9/7/1961

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Mangoes

Short Description

Radio host and television news correspondent Michele Norris (1961 - ) was the host of National Public Radio's (NPR) "All Things Considered". Norris also served as a correspondent for ABC News, where she won an Emmy Award and a Peabody Award for her coverage of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

Employment

ABC News

National Public Radio

Favorite Color

Green

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Michele Norris' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Michele Norris lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Michele Norris describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Michele Norris describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Michele Norris remembers her neighborhood in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Michele Norris describes her maternal grandmother, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Michele Norris describes her maternal grandmother, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Michele Norris describes her father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Michele Norris talks about her father's move to Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Michele Norris describes her father's service in the U.S. Navy

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Michele Norris talks about her father's move to Minneapolis, Minnesota

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Michele Norris describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Michele Norris describes how her parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Michele Norris remembers her father's frugality

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Michele Norris describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Michele Norris recalls her experiences during the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Michele Norris describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Michele Norris remembers her early education

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Michele Norris remembers an influential elementary school teacher

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Michele Norris recalls the mentorship of Principal Roland R. DeLapp

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Michele Norris describes her experiences at Washburn High School in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Tape: 2 Story: 14 - Michele Norris recalls her early interest in news publications

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$2

DAStory

6$7

DATitle
Michele Norris describes her maternal grandmother, pt. 1
Michele Norris describes her earliest childhood memories
Transcript
My [maternal] grandmother [Ione Hopson Brown] was, was very--she was a community activist and she was very, very, very, active in traveling around the city, and advocating for better housing, advocating for senior rights, there was a group a community organization called You Need Us [ph.], and she was the head of this organization, I remember as a child, she was given a key to the city. She was very, very, well known, and was a agitator in her own way, in sort of a Minnesota way, you know, and was very active in the Sabathani Community Center, on the south side of Minneapolis [Minnesota]. I'm kind of fidgeting because there's a story that is part of our history, but I'm kind of going back and forth here because my mother [Elizabeth Brown Norris] is, is--in the family they're split about whether the story really should be told, and I'm gonna share it with you because for the sake of history, and I apologize to my mother right now for doing this, because she's said tell that story when I'm gone, but I think that it's part of our history. My grandmother, was, had a certain standing in the community, and was very much looked up to and I didn't always understand where that came from and it--I discovered, really only recently, because my family only recently started to talk about it, and again, there's my Uncle Jimmy [James Brown] who's doing all this research, just discovered a lot about this and we'll talk about this and other parts of the family, except, please don't talk about that. My grandmother had earned a bit of a name for herself, and was able to earn money and put aside money for herself, and start a life traveling as a--she would do demonstrations, and it's--the background there is that it was several grain companies, in Minnesota, Pillsbury [Pillsbury Flour Mills Company, Minneapolis, Minnesota], General Mills [General Mills Inc.]--$$Yeah, and (unclear)--$$--she was a traveling Aunt Jemima, and she would travel throughout small towns, at a time when pancake mix, the idea of just adding water and eggs, and whipping up pancakes, was, was, new and different, and you used to, you know, you'd have to do all this by scratch, and she'd travel around and wear a kerchief on her head, and demonstrate how you could do this. And she would do this in rooms full of people, through small towns all across Minnesota, and I think she traveled to Iowa, and the Dakotas and she became very well known, and apparently, there were other traveling Aunt Jemimas around the country who were doing this--$$I've heard this, this kind of story before, and it may have been in Minnesota.$$Yeah.$$There's somebody, who may just be related to you. We'll talk about this after, (laughter). I'll try and think of who it is.$$Oh really, no, because this is--my mother hates this story.$$But there, there's, I heard this, yeah (unclear).$$And you know what, it's interesting, because it's--and it's not because of any kind of shame, my mother--I don't want you to think that she was ashamed of this at all, but it's very painful, because, I mean, you know the stigma associated with Aunt Jemima, but at the same time, you know, what a wonderful thing, that my grandmother was able to travel at a time when African Americans, in particular, African Americans didn't travel, and see the country, and receive a certain amount of accolade, and respect and was able to earn money, you know, doing this. And I think it set her on a path to becoming the community leader and the wise elder that she became in the community, so that's part of our, our, story too (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Now, I've heard different stories--$How many siblings do you have?$$I have two sisters [Cindy McGraw and Marguerite McGraw], yeah.$$Two sisters, okay. And where do you fall in the order?$$I'm the youngest, by ten years.$$Okay.$$They're ten and twelve years older than me. My mother [Elizabeth Brown Norris] was previously married to Donald McGraw [ph.], and my two sisters, were the product of that marriage, so (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Okay. All right, do have, have an earliest childhood memory?$$I don't know what my earliest childhood memory is, I have, I have several. I, I, remember playing dress up, you know, they kept a big dress up box for us, and, well a lot of it was my sisters' cast off clothes, 'cause you know my sisters were the coolest people on earth, we had a rec room in the basement, and you know, they had the hair tape, that they would curl right here, and I used to, used to sit in the basement and watch them dance to James Brown records, and I just thought they were the coolest people in the land.$$What's the gap between you?$$Ten and twelve years.$$Ten and twelve years. Okay, okay, so they were like--yeah (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) So, you know, I was an eight year old watching them--a six year old watching them, at sixteen and eighteen, and eighteen and twenty and they just, they were the personification of hip you know, to me. I remember Halloween, my father [Belvin Norris, Jr.] was a baseball fanatic, would watch baseball on television but listen to it on the radio, and I do remember on Halloween, I remember this very clearly, I wanted so badly to be--you know, the Sears [Sears, Roebuck and Co.] catalog would come with all of the Halloween costumes, and I wanted something that had tiaras and wands and I wanted to be a fairy princess, because all the other little girls in the neighborhood, were going to be like fairy princesses, my father dressed me up as Tony Oliva, and it was this Sears costume, you know, you would get, you know, the baseball costume, that doubled as pajamas, so, you know, you'd and then, I had to wear the Tony Oliva costume for months afterward (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) The, the great baseball player for Minnesota [Minnesota Twins] or something?$$Yes, yes (laughter), who, who is still spends time in Minnesota, 'cause, my sister and her husband, Tim [ph.], say that they went indoor to the Mall of America [Bloomington, Minnesota] to see him, at a local eatery or something, but yeah, I do, I have, distinct memories of that, and I remember going down to Birmingham [Alabama] a lot. I remember the summers in Birmingham, and spending time with my [paternal] grandparents [Fannie Walker Norris and Belvin Norris, Sr.], and all the cousins would be down there. I remember my grandfather, drove this gigantic car with suicide doors. The doors that opened up like this, instead of one door opening, it would open up so that the whole of the car was, sort of open, and he would drive, after he worked in the steel mills, and he would--after he retired, and most of his sons worked in the steel mills, my father never did, he moved up to Chicago [Illinois], right out of the [U.S.] Navy--he would drive back and forth to Bruno's [Bruno's Supermarkets, LLC] which was a grocery store, a chain down there, and I do remember driving, and I would love sitting in this gigantic car with my grandfather, who was also a very big man, big hands, big shoulders, and he would drive a woman back and forth to Bruno's. And I remember that, and we had sort of a lending system in the neighborhood, in Birmingham, and I also remember being there and they, they--and I guess that at the time, they couldn't use the library, the public library, so they had this sort of lending system, within the neighborhood in Ensley [Birmingham, Alabama], and I actually do remember, running books back and forth, and they kept a list of who had what book, and someone would want a book next, and I remember that when I was a kid also, was running the books all over. Those are some of my earliest memories.

Stanley Tolliver, Sr.

Attorney, community activist, and media personality, Stanley Eugene Tolliver, Sr., was born in Cleveland, Ohio, on October 29, 1925, the only child of Eugene and Edna Tolliver. Tolliver graduated from East Technical High School in 1944, and earned his bachelor’s degree from Baldwin-Wallace College in 1948. Tolliver completed his legal education at Cleveland Marshall School of Law, earning his LLB degree in 1951, his LLD degree in 1968, and his J.D. degree in 1969.

After completing his LLB degree, Tolliver served in the U. S. Army Counterintelligence Corps from 1951 through 1953, and then passed the bar exam while in the army in 1953. Tolliver was admitted to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1977. Tolliver served as legal counsel for the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC); and the Congress of Racial Equality; he was also the only African American attorney involved in the defense of the students charged in the Kent State University anti-Vietnam War protest in the 1970s.

Tolliver joined other Ohioans in leading the call for the desegregation of the Cleveland Public Schools. After the state and local boards of education were found guilty of operating a segregated school system in Cleveland, the presiding jurist in the case, Federal Judge Frank J. Battisti, appointed Tolliver to committees on office and school monitoring, and community relations in 1978. Tolliver was first elected to membership on the Cleveland Board of Education in 1981; his twelve years of service on the board included two terms as board president.

Tolliver was the recipient of numerous awards and honors, including the Outstanding Alumnus Award from Baldwin-Wallace College in 1978, and the NAACP (Cleveland Chapter) Freedom Award in 2000. An avid runner since high school, Tolliver was inducted into the East Technical High School’s Athletic Hall of Fame in 1978. Tolliver was also a life member of the NAACP, and the host of a popular weekly radio show, Conversations with Stanley E. Tolliver, Sr.

Tolliver was married to the late Dorothy Olivia Greenwood Tolliver for fifty years; the couple raised three children: Stephanie, Sherrie, and Stanley, Jr. Tolliver passed away on January 3, 2010.

Accession Number

A2005.138

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/16/2005

Last Name

Tolliver

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Eugene

Schools

East Technical High School

Balwin Wallace University

Cleveland-Marshall College of Law

Rawlings Junior High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Stanley

Birth City, State, Country

Cleveland

HM ID

TOL02

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Ohio

Favorite Vacation Destination

San Francisco, California

Favorite Quote

The Struggle Continues.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Ohio

Birth Date

10/29/1925

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Cleveland

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chitterlings

Death Date

1/3/2011

Short Description

Civil rights lawyer and radio host Stanley Tolliver, Sr. (1925 - 2011 ) served as legal counsel for the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and the Congress of Racial Equality. He was also the only African American attorney involved in the defense of the students charged in the Kent State University anti-Vietnam War protest.

Employment

WERE-AM Radio

Counter Intelligence Corps

Congress On Racial Equality

Stanley E. Tolliver & Associates

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Stanley Tolliver, Sr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his parents' move to Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. explains why his family's surname changed

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls his early interest in African American history

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his father's personality

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his musical interests

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his drama activities at Baldwin-Wallace College

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his publications and the Scrumpy-Dump Cinema

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls his teachers at Quincy School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls his teachers at Rawlings Junior High School

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. remembers boxing during his childhood in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls a performance by Paul Robeson and Mary McLeod Bethune

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes the employment discrimination he faced during college

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls his time at Baldwin-Wallace College

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes Harrison Dillard and Jesse Owens

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his time at Cleveland-Marshall College of Law

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls his time in the U.S. Army during the Korean War

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes how he met his wife

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls the people he met at Karamu House

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. talks about his wife and three children

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes opportunities for African American servicemen

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon discrimination in the U.S. Military

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his court-martial cases

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon segregation within the U.S. military

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. talks about representing the Congress of Racial Equality

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls opening his first law office in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his early civil rights and police brutality cases, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his early civil rights and police brutality cases, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls Fred Ahmed Evans' arrest and trial in 1967

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes the Glenville shootout of 1968

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes the aftermath of the Glenville shootout

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. remembers Fred Ahmed Evans' conviction and death

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes challenges he faced as a civil rights attorney

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his affirmative action cases

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls serving on Cleveland's Board of Education

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls the desegregation of Cleveland public schools

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon his accomplishments as school board president

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his campaign for school board president

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes the advantages of busing, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes the advantages of busing, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes some of Cleveland's school superintendents

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon the end of busing in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his relationship with HistoryMaker George Forbes

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon the state of Cleveland's public schools

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes school funding issues in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. shares his thoughts about Cleveland's government

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon the legacy of Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, 1954

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon job opportunities for African Americans

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. shares his concerns for young African Americans, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. shares his concerns for young African Americans, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. explains the importance of African American role models

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. recalls a trial in Newton, Mississippi

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. talks about reparations and voting rights

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. narrates his photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. narrates his photographs, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. narrates his photographs, pt. 3

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Stanley Tolliver, Sr. narrates his photographs, pt. 4

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$6

DAStory

4$2

DATitle
Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon segregation within the U.S. military
Stanley Tolliver, Sr. reflects upon his accomplishments as school board president
Transcript
So, and I saw there be--wonderful opportunities in there. I mean, blacks was doing some things that they had never done before and because of the [U.S.] military. It was a wonderful opportunity for 'em. Not for me. But, for them. That was Harry Truman [President Harry S. Truman] who signed that integration order and things have changed in the military. And, even when I was on the school board [Board of Education, Cleveland Metropolitan School District], I had some opposition to them recruiting in the schools, you know. And, these captains and these colonels, all black, came to me, talked to me about the [U.S.] Army and the mil--and then ha--listen, it was tremendous opportunities in the military. It's not as segregated as it was. 'Cause I remember when I went south the first time, my aunt took me south, the black soldiers were on one train, on one, and the blacks, and the whites were on another. And, white people was on the air conditioned, and the blacks was on the ones that you open up the window all the soot came in (laughter). And, the white folks was in air conditioned cars. And, the soldiers were in air conditioned cars. And, black soldiers and white soldiers, even when I was in, they tried to make a prison guard out of me. And, they told me that if any of 'em got out, I would have to serve the time. I said, "Well, put me in there, 'cause I'm not gonna shoot one of these guys. He needs the Army just like I do." And, it was so prejudice down there in Virginia that they had a photographer shop and they even segregated the pictures. That's how bad it was. And, up in Indiana you talk about a prejudice place. Up there in Terre Haute, Indiana. That's where you had to change trains. You had to sit in the buzzards roost; black soldiers, I mean, black folks. My uniform--and I didn't wanna sit up there. But, Dorothy [Dorothy Greenwood Tolliver], my wife, said, "Now, if you get put in jail and I'm out here by myself." 'Cause I had a, you know, I was a kind, and I can tell you this real quick about Martin Luther King [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.]. I loved that man. But, I'll never forget it, we was at a meeting at St. James Church [St. James Cathedral, Chicago, Illinois] and Martin Luther King was speaking. And, he said in his melodious voice, "Now, what we have the demonstration, it's understood that Attorney Tolliver [HistoryMaker Stanley Tolliver, Sr.] is not to participate. Because we do not want the movement compromised. We know how Attorney Tolliver is, and how can he represent us if he's in jail." I said, "You're right, Dr." 'Cause if one of those cops had reached for me, the movement was over. I was not gonna turn the other cheek. So, the fact that I was a lawyer got me off of that. I could stay there and represent everybody else. But, I was not gone--and that's why I say, "That man, I will never be the giant that he was." I just don't see how in the world he could take what he took. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. But, I respected and admired him because the man lived what he preached, and he preached, what he said, he meant. And, I was just fascinated. He and I would have long conversations, okay. Even Ahmed Evans [Fred Ahmed Evans], he, he, now he just capitali--he just captivated Ahmed. Ahmed was just like a little puppy dog around him. You see that picture of him and Ahmed together. But, when they killed Ahmed that's--I mean, when they killed King, Ahmed went berserk.$But, my main thing was, I'll always will be proud of my record on the school board [Board of Education, Cleveland Metropolitan School District]. The kids that I helped--I-she [Artha Woods] and I can be out, and somebody a come up and say, "Do you know you spoke at my graduation?" Or, somebody that I represented and I give 'em the devil. See, I raise all kind of--with these kids; tell 'em how stupid they are, you know. Compare them with, what's her name; Martha Stewart. You know, you got this little chump change and you're going to prison for twenty-five years for this chump change. That woman stole millions and only got six months in jail. I say, "You see how stupid you are?" You know, that's the way I talk. But, anyway, I worked with these parents and one thing I started and Jean, what's a name; Fannie Lewis, it started in her school each time. I was the one that started having these nurseries put in the schools for these pregnant girls, so they could go to school. And, the preachers and everybody got on me. Oh, man, you--I said, "Now, what do you wanna do? Throw these girls out in the street? They made a mistake. They got pregnant. Men make mistakes, they don't get pregnant." I said, "Now, what do you wanna do, throw these girls away?" And, many a girl came up was pregnant and I give 'em their diploma. And, would tell 'em, I said, "Now, I'm gonna tell you just like I told my daughters [Stephanie Tolliver and Sherrie Tolliver]." I said, "Hold your head up and keep you dress down, here," (laughter). And, for you boys, "It take any male can make a baby, but it takes a man to raise and make something out of 'em. And, if somebody raising your child and you're not there, you have prostituted your manhood." And, they love me. In fact, when they had time to--when they would talk about speakers from the board, everybody wanted me. The other board members would get jealous 'cause I was the one always demanded, see. So, I was always fighting for these kids. I didn't like the way they were being treated. I didn't like the way the media was doing 'em. And, we used to employ more black people in this town than any other in the state, in the state, except for the federal government. That's how many black folks. And, I mean, we enforced that. 'Cause if you didn't live in this district, you didn't--you couldn't get the job. And, if we found out that you were living one place and working here, you lost your job. And, many a black would come to me. I say, "I can't help you brother. I can't help you sister" (laughter). Because this is for people who live here, and you don't live here. And, you lied and said you did. So, you know, people don't--you know, you get a reputation, you know. But, I fought for these kids, see. I remember some parents got on my case, "Oh, Tol--Mr. Tolliver [HistoryMaker Stanley Tolliver, Sr.], what you gonna do about babies having babies? Yeah, what y'all gonna do?" And, they were just kicking, some of these parents. I said, "Now, first of all, if you stop kicking, I'll answer your questions. Where you get that y'all stuff? These are your children. Where you get that y'all stuff?" I said, "Our job is not to raise 'em. Our job is to teach 'em. You send them with the right attitude and they don't get taught, then we're responsible. But, if they come to school with the wrong attitude and they don't come at all, then that's your fault." And, I said, "I'm gonna leave with something else with you." They say, "What?" I said, "Kids don't get pregnant in school, hear (laughter)." So, they didn't like that. And, unlike Jane Campbell, I always would say, when something happens, "The buck stops here." I don't put it off on somebody. I'm the president. The buck stops here. While I was on the school board; the buck stops here. We're not putting off on somebody else. And, I was elected four times and had no money.