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Art Lee Shell, Jr.

Football player and coach Art Shell was born on November 26, 1946 in Charleston, South Carolina to Art Shell Sr. and Gertrude Shell. Shell graduated from Bonds-Wilson High School in 1964, and earned his B.S. degree in industrial arts education from Maryland State University in Princess Anne, Maryland in 1968.

After graduating from Maryland State University, Shell was drafted by the American Football League to play offensive tackle for the Oakland Raiders. In 1977, Shell earned his first Super Bowl ring after the Oakland Raider’s victory against the Minnesota Vikings in Super Bowl XI. He then played in Super Bowl XV in 1981 in which the Oakland Raiders defeated the Philadelphia Eagles. Shell also competed in eight Pro Bowls, and was named to the AP First Team All-Pro in 1974 and 1977, and to the AP Second-Team All Pro in 1975 and 1978. He played a total of 207 games with the team from 1968 to 1982. After retiring as a player in 1983, Shell became an offensive line coach for the Los Angeles Raiders. In 1989, Shell was promoted to head coach of the Raiders, making him the first African American head coach in the National Football League in the modern era. Shell left the team in 1994, and became an offensive line coach for the Kansas City Chiefs in 1995; and from 1997 to 2000, he served as an offensive line coach for the Atlanta Falcons. Shell also served as a senior vice president in charge of football operations for the NFL, before returning to coach the Oakland Raiders for the 2006-2007 season.

Shell was included on the NFL’s 1970s All-Decade Team, and inducted into the South Carolina Sports Hall of Fame. He was also inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1989, and the College Football Hall of Fame in 2013. Shell was selected as NFL Coach of the Year in 1990. Sporting News ranked Shell as number fifty five on their list of the 100 greatest football players in 1999.

Shell and his wife, Janice Jeter Shell, have two children, Arthur Shell III and Christopher J. Shell.

Art Shell was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 7, 2018.

Accession Number

A2018.034

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/7/2018

Last Name

Shell

Maker Category
Middle Name

Lee

Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Arthur

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

SHE06

Favorite Season

Christmas Holiday Season

Sponsor

Jeff Pash

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Family Homes

Favorite Quote

A Scared Man Can't Win.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

11/26/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Favorite Food

Red Beans & Rice

Short Description

Football player and coach Art Shell (1946 - ) played offensive tackle for the Oakland Raiders from 1968 to 198, and coached the Los Angeles Raiders from 1989 to 1994, making him the first African American NFL head coach of the modern era.

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Brown & Beige

Pam Morris

Radio host Pam Morris was born and raised in West Virginia. She graduated from St. Albans High School and West Virginia State College.

In 1989, Morris was appointed by Mayor Richard M. Daley as an event coordinator for the City of Chicago and as head producer for the Chicago Gospel Music Festival. Morris also created and coordinated Mayor Daley's annual Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Interfaith Breakfast. She went on to serve as interfaith liaison for the United States House of Representatives in the Second District of Illinois.

In 2000, Morris was hired as a radio personality at WVON-AM in Chicago, where she went on to host "Gospel with Pam Morris." She worked at WWHN 1510-AM and WGCI-AM; and, for seven years, hosted the radio program entitled "The Inspirational Gospel Stroll," on WVAZ-FM. Morris also hosted "Gospel with Pam Morris" on cable television. In addition, she has worked as an international Gospel consultant for The Umbria Jazz Festival in Perugia, Italy; The Gospel and Soul Easter Festival in Terni, Italy; and The Tree of Life Gospel Event in Durbin, South Africa. She served as a consultant to the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival, and was appointed lead ambassador for the American Heart Association’s Most Powerful Voices Gospel Tour. In 2009, Morris retired as event coordinator for the City of Chicago and founded the nonprofit organization P. Morris & Associates.

Morris has received numerous awards for her work. She was the 2006 Stellar Award recipient for Gospel Radio announcer of the year. She also received the 2010 Who's Who in Black Chicago Award; the 2010 Living Faith Church Lifetime Achievement Legacy Award; the City of Chicago Appreciation Award; the 2012 National Council of Negro Women Media Award; and N'Digo's N'Religion Award. Morris also served on the Grammy Board of Governors of the National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences - Chicago Chapter.

Morris has recorded two Gospel albums, and is the author of the book Lessons Learned from Aunt Mabel and So Much More.

Pam Morris was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on January 23, 2014.

Accession Number

A2014.023

Sex

Female

Interview Date

1/23/2014

Last Name

Morris-Walton

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Jacqueline

Occupation
Schools

Tackett Creek School

St. Albans High School

West Virginia State University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Pam

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

MOR15

Favorite Season

Christmas

State

West Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Montego Bay, Jamaica

Favorite Quote

I Love You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

12/20/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Salmon

Short Description

Radio host Pam Morris (1949 - ) , founder of P. Morris & Associates, is the host of WVON-AM’s "Gospel with Pam Morris," and was head producer for the Chicago Gospel Music Festival for over twenty years. She is the author of the book Lessons Learned from Aunt Mabel and So Much More.

Employment

WVON Radio

United States House of Representatives

City of Chicago

V103 Radio

1390

Favorite Color

Black, Puple, Red

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Pam Morris' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Pam Morris lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Pam Morris describes her maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Pam Morris talks about her mother, Paskalena Page

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Pam Morris talks about her father, John Brown

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Pam Morris describes being raised by her Aunt Mabel

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Pam Morris describes her likeness to Aunt Mabel

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about Aunt Mabel's work as a minister

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Pam Morris describes the Apostolic Free Church of God Church on Redds Hill in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Pam Morris shares her childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Pam Morris describes the sights, sounds, and smells of St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Pam Morris describes growing up on a farm in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Pam Morris describes her great grandfather greeting a date with his shotgun

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Pam Morris recalls the music and television of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Pam Morris describes her school memories

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Pam Morris describes her Uncle Beauford

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Pam Morris describes her church experiences as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Pam Morris describes attending Tackett Creek Elementary School in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about her childhood activities

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Pam Morris describes Aunt Mabel's reluctance to be active in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Pam Morris describes the magazines she read while growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Pam Morris describes the students at St. Albans High School in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Pam Morris talks about being raised in a strict household

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Pam Morris talks about her senior year at St. Albans High School and her decision to attend West Virginia State College

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Pam Morris describes working at her grandfather's store

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Pam Morris remembers how she was viewed at St. Albans High School in St. Albans, West Virginia

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Pam Morris describes attending West Virginia State College in Institute, West Virginia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Pam Morris talks about attempting to reconnect with her mother

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Pam Morris describes the importance of prayer in her life

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Pam Morris recounts moving to New York to live with her mother

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Pam Morris recalls marrying John Morris in 1969 and having two children

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about being a minister's wife and recording an album with her husband

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Pam Morris talks about her church and radio activities in Chicago, Illinois in 1975

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Pam Morris describes the gospel music scene in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Pam Morris talks about working on Charles Sherrell's radio program

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Pam Morris describes the popular gospel shows and performers during the 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Pam Morris describes the content and sponsors of Charles Sherrell's radio program

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Pam Morris talks about hosting programs and events

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Pam Morris describes how she selected music for the programs she hosted

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Pam Morris remembers Harold Washington's campaign for Mayor of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Pam Morris describes her radio career in the 1980s

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Pam Morris talks about her relationship with HistoryMaker Juanita Passmore

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Pam Morris remembers visiting Aunt Mabel as an adult

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Pam Morris remembers meeting Mahalia Jackson and Albertina Walker

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Pam Morris talks about the gospel legends she met

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Pam Morris recalls becoming the Special Events Coordinator for the Chicago Gospel Music Festival

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Pam Morris talks about Chicago festivals

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Pam Morris describes her work on the Chicago Gospel Music Festival

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Pam Morris talks about the role of prayer in her life

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Pam Morris comments on the political and civic involvement of ministers in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Pam Morris shares the highlights of her twenty-year tenure as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival.

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Pam Morris describes the various genres within gospel music

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Pam Morris defines gospel music

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Pam Morris talks about the business of gospel music

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Pam Morris talks about deciding to leave her position as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Pam Morris talks about deciding to leave her position as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Pam Morris recounts the challenges she faced as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Pam Morris talks about the Umbria Jazz Festival in Perugia, Italy

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Pam Morris describes the life lessons that Aunt Mabel taught her

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Pam Morris talks about her current relationship with her mother

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Pam Morris talks about her children

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Pam Morris talks about her awards

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Pam Morris reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Pam Morris talks about her radio show

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Pam Morris talks about her regrets

Tape: 6 Story: 11 - Pam Morris describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 12 - Pam Morris narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

4$7

DATitle
Pam Morris talks about hosting programs and events
Pam Morris shares the highlights of her twenty-year tenure as Special Events Coordinator of the Chicago Gospel Music Festival.
Transcript
Okay, so your show is catching on, and did you-- the logical growth, outgrowth of a good radio show is live events with the performers--(simultaneous)--$$Um-hum, I would do, host programs, started to host programming, started, people start calling me up, asking me to host. Would you please come to my church? Antioch [Missionary Baptist Church] was the first church I went to. Reverend Daniels [Wilbur Daniel] was so sweet. He was such a wonderful person. He was always so kind. He loved his wife [Marguerite Richards]. Oh, my God, he loved his wife. She loved me, she just thought I was the most loveliest person. She said, and I want to thank you for your music 'cause you know how to play music. I'll never forget that. Those were some great days.$$Okay, so you did your first public program there?$$Um-hum.$$And who was on the program? Do you remember who was on the program at Antioch Church?$$No, other than his choir, I don't remember who else sang? I don't.$$Okay, but you were just like the host for the program?$$Um-hum, I introduced.$$Okay.$$And that just started, where I started just going from one place to the other. I mean a whole lot of it.$$So people were coming, I mean you were a draw then since they heard you on the radio, you were a draw for their programs?$$They were coming to see me and shake my hand and give me a hug, for real. It made my day and theirs. I think I was flight somebody. I want to say I was Flight 1570, take a flight with me. I think that, I had a little cliche or something going on there. I think I did. I'd have to ask Ron Baker that because I remember him coming over to the station. But I think I did have something like Flight 1570. I want to say that was the call letters, 1570.$$Okay, AM radio?$$Uh-huh, AM radio, 1570. That wasn't WVON.$$No, no.$$No, I think it was 1570.$$This is Charles Sherrell's station.$$Sherrell, yeah, I think I was a flight.$$I'm sorry. I can't think of the call letters right now, but anybody--(simultaneous)--$$But I think I was on a flight.$$--who wants to research it can find it.$$Okay, I think I was on a flight, and I was saying, "Come go with me on my flight. I'm gon' take you somewhere", and I would take you. And then when I would host, I would say, "Come meet me, 'cause we've landed. So come on over and meet me." And that's how people were hugging me and-$But back to the fest [Chicago Gospel Music Festival] itself, what are some of the--now, you were the--(simultaneous)--$$Oh, and, but speaking of Reverend [Clay] Evans, let me take you back to the fest--$$Okay, okay.$$--and say that even when he wouldn't make meetings, he'd call me up and tell me about somebody. He said, I think so and so need to be, put this down, consider this person, consider them. He would do that.$$Oh, to be on the committee?$$He was on the committee. So he was always helpful to me, had some great resources there. I was good, but I was better because of the help that I had.$$Okay.$$You gotta give credit where credit is due, had some great people working with me.$$Well, are there any special moments from the Gospel Festival, you wanna share with us, 'cause you did this for--$$Twenty years.$$Twenty years, yeah.$$Twenty years, so many. It's so many. I could go back, I could go back to Mom and Pop Winans, sitting on the side of the stage, Mom and Pop Winans sitting there saying, "Now, that's what I like right there", and I think at that time, it was Doc McKenzie and the Highlights singing "I've Won". And they're sitting on the side of the stage. I can go back to Solomon Burke when we went to Millennium Park, and he was one of, he was one of the featured performers. And they laid the red carpet out for him, and he sat in throne chair, or whatever you call that big chair he sat in. And he sang and he sat back there and sang, and people loved him, but it wasn't until Rance Allen came on behind him that people went crazy.$$So they performed with him?$$No, they performed after him.$$After him, yeah.$$Uh-huh, with Destiny's Choir. I think his choir was one of those choirs that performed with him or with Solomon Burke. It's just so many highlights. I can go back to when we honored Andrae Crouch and how beautiful that time was. And then let me tell you about this wonderful experience, of sitting at a gospel supreme, Pastor Maceo Woods, Evening of Gospel Elegance and, at Christ Universal, and I look over at one of my board members. Actually, it was Pastor DeAndre Patterson, and I had a "Ah-hah Moment", like Oprah [Winfrey] would say, an "Ah-hah" moment. And I said, I wanna take elegance to Grant Park or to Millennium Park, downtown Chicago [Illinois]. And I just felt something from how he was doing what he was doing where I wanted to bring an evening of gospel elegance to the festival. And I met with Fred Nelson, one of our board members. He said, we can make this happen.$$Now, what characterizes an evening of gospel elegance?$$A gospel evening of elegance is when you dress up in your tux, in your long gowns, and you come out and you present yourself accordingly. And you add into that a stringed instrument like a violinist or an opera singer or a tenor singer as we added in one of those performances from Three Men--Cook, Dixon and Young.$$Yeah, the Three Mo' Tenors.$$Added Dixon in there. Oh, my God, you talking about a evening of elegance. He steps out in his tuxedo and sings in that baritone voice, and it rings throughout the park. Oh, my God, and we dressed up too. Nothing like it, nothing like it, and God blessed us to do this for the City of Chicago for over a dozen years or close to a dozen years, that particular segment on a Saturday evening in downtown Chicago. Just get up, get dressed and come on down to the park and feel special. And every group was great now. I can go from the Barrett Sisters. Let me tell you another important part of this was Pastor Archbishop Lucius Hall, one of our board members. Arch Bishop Lucius Hall walked into one of the board members, one board meeting and said, I'd like to work in this area. And he helped us recognizing living legends, people that never really had a chance to come down and be honored that were still performing. And you had to be now over a certain age now. You couldn't be fifty, couldn't be fifty-five. I'm not even sure if you were sixty, might have been over that. But he was over that segment and presented them--oh, I could just go on and on, the Caravans, all of them, the Caravans, Dr. Albertina Walker, Delores Washington Green, Shirley Caesar, Dorothy Norwood, oh, just--I could just go on and on.$$Shirley Caesar.$$Oh, my God, it was just, oh. Israel Houghton of, and New Breed, the Clark Sisters. Oh, the Winans, Take 6, I could just go on and on in telling you how we were blessed to bless many people with great music during our tenure for the City of Chicago. Yeah, wonderful.

The Honorable James Gadsden

United States Ambassador (retired) James I. Gadsden was born on March 12, 1948 in Charleston, South Carolina. His father, James David Gadsden, was a janitor; his mother; Hazel Gaines Gadsden, a maid and housewife. After receiving his B.A. degree cum laude in economics from Harvard University in 1970, Gadsden enrolled in Stanford University and graduated from there in 1972 with his M.A. degree in East Asian Studies. Following graduation, he was awarded a mid-career fellowship from 1984 to 1985 at Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs to study economics.

Gadsden’s career with the U.S. Department of State began in 1972 as a political officer. He was then assigned to the U.S. Trade Center in Taipei in 1974 as a market research officer supporting U.S. export promotion programs. He continued promoting U.S. exports as a commercial officer at the U.S. Embassy in Budapest, Hungary until 1979. In 1980, he became a staff assistant to the Assistant Secretary of State for Economic and Business Affairs. From 1981 to 1997, Gadsden served as the European Communities desk officer at the State Department, economic and political officer at the U.S. Mission to the European Communities in Brussels, Counselor for Economic Affairs at the U.S. Embassy in Paris, and Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Budapest. Returning to the United States in 1997, Gadsden was named Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, and then served as Special Negotiator for Agricultural Biotechnology in 2001.

After being nominated by President George W. Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell and confirmed by the U.S. Senate, Gadsden was sworn in as U.S. Ambassador to Iceland on October 24, 2002. In that position, he directed the implementation of U.S. foreign policy and U.S. government operations in Iceland. Returning to the United States in 2005, Gadsden was appointed as Deputy Commandant and International Affairs Advisor at the National War College in Washington, D.C. until he retired in 2007. After retirement, he was recalled to serve as Senior Advisor for European Affairs at the U.S. Mission to the United Nations in New York. In 2008, he became Diplomat-In-Residence and Lecturer in Public and International Affairs at Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. He is currently Senior Counselor for International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Foundation in Princeton, New Jersey.

Gadsden is married to Sally Freeman Gadsden. They have two adult sons.

James I. Gadsden was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 11, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.070

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/11/2013

Last Name

Gadsden

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

I.

Occupation
Schools

Princeton University

Stanford University

Harvard University

Elisabeth Irwin High School

Charles A. Brown High School

First Name

James

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

GAD01

Favorite Season

Fall

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Around The United States

Favorite Quote

We Can Do That.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

3/12/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

All Food

Short Description

Foreign ambassador The Honorable James Gadsden (1948 - ) former U.S. Ambassador to Iceland, served as Diplomat-In-Residence and Lecturer in Public and International Affairs at Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, and Senior Counselor for International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Foundation in Princeton, N.J.

Employment

Princeton University

United States Department of State

Favorite Color

Fall Colors

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of James Gadsden's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - James Gadsden lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - James Gadsden describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - James Gadsden describes his maternal grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - James Gadsden talks about his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - James Gadsden describes his father's background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - James Gadsden reflects upon the lack of information about his family history

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - James Gadsden talks about his father's experience in World War II and how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - James Gadsden describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - James Gadsden describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - James Gadsden talks about the role Denmark Vesey and the free black middle class played in the history of Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - James Gadsden describes growing up in 1950s Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - James Gadsden describes race relations in 1950s Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - James Gadsden talks about the Civil Rights Movement in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - James Gadsden lists the public schools he attended in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - James Gadsden recalls his favorite teachers at Charles A. Brown High School in Charleston, South Carolina, including HistoryMaker James Clyburn

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - James Gadsden talks about his childhood reading habits in the 1950s

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - James Gadsden describes the Civil Rights Movement in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - James Gadsden talks about the Corsairs, HistoryMaker James Clyburn's student organization at Charles A. Brown High School in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - James Gadsden describes his decision to transfer away from Charles A. Brown High School in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - James Gadsden talks about his decision to transfer to Elisabeth Irwin High School (LRSI) in New York, New York in 1964

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - James Gadsden describes the intensive high school program he attended during the summer of 1963 at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - James Gadsden talks about entering Elisabeth Irwin High School (LRSI) in New York, New York in 1964

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - James Gadsden describes the academic programs at Elisabeth Irwin High School (LRSI) in New York, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - James Gadsden describes the students at Elisabeth Irwin High School (LRSI) in New York, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - James Gadsden talks about his classmates at Elisabeth Irwin High School (LRSI) in New York, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - James Gadsden recalls his decision to attend Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - James Gadsden describes the people he met at Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts, including HistoryMaker Archie C. Epps, III

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - James Gadsden talks about studying economics at Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - James Gadsden describes the most interesting professors and guest lecturers he had Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - James Gadsden talks about switching his program of study from economics to Chinese studies

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - James Gadsden talks about enrolling in graduate school for Chinese Studies at Stanford University in Stanford, California

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - James Gadsden talks about being recruited into the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of East Asian Affairs

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - James Gadsden recalls how he met his wife, Sally Freeman Gadsden, in 1970 in Youngstown, Ohio

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - James Gadsden talks about his and his wife's decision to get married in 1974

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - James Gadsden describes working at the U.S. Trade Center in Taipei, Taiwan from 1974 to 1978

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - James Gadsden recounts transferring from Taipei, Taiwan to Budapest, Hungary

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - James Gadsden describes his wife's role at the U.S. Embassy in Hungary

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - James Gadsden recalls working in Communist Hungary in the late 1970s

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - James Gadsden describes working for the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Economics and Business Affairs

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - James Gadsden reflects upon treatment while working at the U.S. Department of State

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - James Gadsden describes his experience working as the European Communities Desk Officer for the U.S. Department of State

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - James Gadsden recalls becoming the State Department's European Communities Desk Officer

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - James Gadsden describes his experience as the Economic and Political Officer for the U.S. Department of State in Brussels, Belgium from 1985 to 1989

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - James Gadsden recounts his work as Counselor for Economic Affairs at the U.S. embassy in Paris, France from 1989 to 1993

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - James Gadsden reflects upon his diplomatic role during Operation Desert Storm and the international campaign against South African apartheid

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - James Gadsden talks about returning to post-Communist Hungary in 1994 to aid their political transition

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - James Gadsden talks about working in the U.S. embassy to Hungary during the transition to a market economy

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - James Gadsden describes his position as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - James Gadsden talks about serving as the State Department's Special Negotiator for Agricultural Biotechnology

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - James Gadsden describes serving as the U.S. Ambassador to Iceland from 2002 to 2005

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - James Gadsden recounts negotiating the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Iceland

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - James Gadsden reflects upon serving as U.S. Ambassador to Iceland

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - James Gadsden reflects upon the honor and status afforded to a former U. S. Ambassador

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - James Gadsden describes his experience as Deputy Commandant of the National War College in Washington, D.C. from 2005 to 2007

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - James Gadsden recalls the people he met while teaching at the National War College in Washington, D.C., including HistoryMaker Colin Powell

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - James Gadsden talks about briefly working at the United Nations in New York City, in 2007

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - James Gadsden explains the United States' decision not to accept the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - James Gadsden describes working at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University in Princeton, New Jersey

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - James Gadsden reflects upon his role as a mentor to younger Foreign Service Officers

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - James Gadsden talks about his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - James Gadsden talks about his children and about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - James Gadsden narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

6$8

DAStory

4$2

DATitle
James Gadsden recalls becoming the State Department's European Communities Desk Officer
James Gadsden recalls the people he met while teaching at the National War College in Washington, D.C., including HistoryMaker Colin Powell
Transcript
So you were there [U.S. Department of State European Community desk] from 1981 to '84 [1984], was there anything we need to talk about in that position before we move on to the next?$$Oh, I don't think so. Just maybe one lesson learned.$$Okay.$$It was through lunch with a China buddy, complaining about wanting to get out of his job in that office, that the idea came up of whether or not I might wanna take his job. First he asked me, and I told him, "Well, I got a commitment right now." Then when I went back to my office after lunch, his boss called me and invited me down for a conversation. We talked for two hours, didn't talk about the job once but everything else. And he was an elderly gentleman, and he asked me, "So young man, do you want this job on the European Communities desk?" And the lesson I learned was how to answer a question, you know. Instead of saying, "Yes, sir," what I said was, "Well, you know, I'm not really not a Europe expert, I studied China. And I had one assignment in Europe in Budapest [Hungary] and," and on and on and on about what I didn't have. This gentleman took his glasses off, leaned across the desk and said, "Young man, I don't give a good"--expletive deleted-"what you know about Europe, whether you studied Europe, whether you've been to Europe, I don't even care whether you like Europe. My question to you was, do you want this job because I want you in it."$$Hmm.$$And, of course, my response was yes. My lesson, don't talk about what you can't do because, you can do it, you know. You can do it.$So, all right. So any stories from your position as Deputy Commandant [of the National War College, Washington, D.C.]?$$It was a fascinating position to hold. First because my boss at that time, General [Teresa] Marne Peterson, was one of the first ladies to graduate from the [U.S.] Air Force Academy's pilot training. And she commanded a tanker, I'm, sorry, a transport squadron in Saudi [Arabia] during the first Gulf War. And I think a transport, a transport squadron at, at other times in, in her career. Just a fascinating leader. Very decisive. I learned a lot from her and I worked very well with her. And until today we're both retired now, and we're still very, very good friends, you know. Secondly, because of the people who came through as guest lecturers, you know, colonel, well, General [HM Colin] Powell, Secretary of State Powell, [general and news commentator] Barry McCaffrey, and certainly [Congressman] Newt Gingrich [R-Georgia], (laughter) Tom freeden-[journalist Thomas] Friedman. Just a, a bunch of really stellar thinkers. Controversial authors, if you will, to give lectures that were not necessarily in line with whatever administration was in at the time. They gave their own thoughts. And the whole idea was to present these thoughts in the open forum to be debated, tested, contested, if you will, as a part of the learning experience. When General Powell was there, he made a comment that was very instructive to the students. He said, "You know, when I was a student here sitting in that top row up there, fast asleep most of the time, if anybody had ever told me at that time that I was going to be, you know, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Advisor to the president, and the Secretary of State, I would have laughed in their face. The likelihood of that was so remote. I wouldn't even think about it. It was not on my horizon." And he said, "Because you were chosen to be here, you know, is, is a comment on the expectations in your career. You have no idea what you're going to be doing in ten or twenty years, so prepare yourselves now to lead." I thought that was one of the most fascinating commentaries I ever heard from someone who's held in such high esteem. And I could literally see him as a colonel, kind of bored and sleeping, (laughter) and not knowing how his future was going to unfold. And when he said that I kind of looked around the room and just kind of wondering to myself where these really talented people are going to be in five or ten or twenty years. I had a whole bunch of folks who came through whose names are household words, you know. [National Security Advisor to Barack Obama] General Jim [L.] Jones, you know, and a whole string of military leaders, not to mention State Department [U.S. Department of State] people who have been students at the National War College, yeah.$$Okay. So you were there two years?$$Two years.$$Two years.$$Yeah.

Janie Bradford

Songwriter Janie Bradford was born on June 2, 1939 in Charleston, Missouri, the youngest of three children born to Richard Henry, a minister, and Elizabeth Bradford. Although her father prohibited secular music in their home, Bradford was influenced early in life by diverse music styles, including country and gospel. In 1956, Bradford graduated from Lincoln High School in Charleston then migrated to Detroit, Michigan where she attended the Detroit Institute of Technology and lived with her sister Clea Bradford, a jazz singer. There, Bradford met Jackie Wilson, who introduced her to the founder of Motown Records, Berry Gordy.

In 1958, Bradford joined Motown Records as a secretary but soon became a songwriter for Motown singers. The first two sings she co-authored with Gordy were included on Jackie Wilson’s album, Lonely Teardrops. The next collaboration that Bradford co-wrote with Gordy was the song, “Money (That’s What I Want),” which been covered over two hundred times by artists such as The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Muddy Watters, The Supremes and Boyz II Men. Bradford’s administrative involvement with Motown Records continued to grow, and Gordy named her director of writer’s relations. Bradford worked for the company for more than twenty-five years as a songwriter at Motown Records where she wrote numerous hit songs such as “Too Busy Thinking About My Baby,” “Your Old Standby,” “All The Love I’ve Got,” “Time Changes Things” and “Contract On Love,” which she wrote for Marvin Gaye, Mary Wells, The Supremes and Stevie Wonder, respectively.

She independently wrote the lyrics for Marvin Gay’s top-selling track, “Just Keep Thinkin’ Bout My Baby,” which was one of his top-selling singles. Bradford served as an administrative secretary for Jobette Records, and has received credit for naming “The Supremes,” who were originally known as “The Primettes.” Bradford went on to become the founder of Mountain Goat Music and Music Notes Gift Shop in Beverly Hills, California where she publishes Entertainment Connection Magazine. In addition, she is the executive director of the Janie Bradford Heroes and Legends (HAL) Scholarship Fund and producer of the HAL Awards. In 2010, Bradford established Twin Records with songwriter and singer Marilyn McLeod. Together Bradford and McLeod produced Bradford the album titled, I Believe in Me.

Bradford has been honored by BMI with a Certificate of Achievement for her co-authoring “Money” and “Too Busy Thinkin’ About My Baby.” Jack the Rapper presented her with the Vivian Carter Award for her contributions to music, and during L.A. Music Week in 2011 the City of Los Angeles presented her with honors.

Music writer Janie Bradford was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 28, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.252

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/28/2012

Last Name

Bradford

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Lincoln High School

Bird's Mill School

Detroit Institute of Technology

First Name

Janie

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

BRA14

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Missouri

Favorite Vacation Destination

Los Angeles, California

Favorite Quote

If The Elevator Stops, Take The Stairs.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

6/2/1939

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Los Angeles

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Songwriter Janie Bradford (1939 - ) was a songwriter at Motown Records for over twenty-five years.

Employment

Jobete Music Co., Inc./Motown Records

Mountain Goat Music

Music Notes

Favorite Color

Off-White

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Janie Bradford's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Janie Bradford lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Janie Bradford describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Janie Bradford describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Janie Bradford talks about her father's migration from Mississippi to Missouri, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Janie Bradford talks about her father's migration from Mississippi to Missouri, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Janie Bradford remembers segregation in Charleston, Missouri

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Janie Bradford describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Janie Bradford remembers her father's congregation

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Janie Bradford lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Janie Bradford describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Janie Bradford remembers her community in Charleston, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Janie Bradford remembers her household

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Janie Bradford recalls the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Janie Bradford remembers her sister's musical career

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Janie Bradford describes her early musical interests

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Janie Bradford remembers her interest in poetry

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Janie Bradford remembers the Bird's Mill School in Charleston, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Janie Bradford describes her father's discipline

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Janie Bradford recalls her experiences at Lincoln High School in Charleston, Missouri

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Janie Bradford describes her extracurricular activities at Lincoln High School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Janie Bradford recalls moving to Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Janie Bradford describes her early years in Detroit, Michigan

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Janie Bradford talks about her early work with Berry Gordy and Jackie Wilson

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Janie Bradford remembers writing 'Money (That's What I Want)'

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Janie Bradford talks about the invention of 45 rpm records

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Janie Bradford describes her songs on Jackie Wilson's 'Lonely Teardrops'

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Janie Bradford recalls the naming of The Supremes

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Janie Bradford talks about her popular Motown Records songs, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Janie Bradford talks about her popular Motown Records songs, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Janie Bradford reflects upon the success of her songs

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Janie Bradford talks about covers of her songs

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Janie Bradford describes how she earns money from her songs

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Janie Bradford remembers her duties with Jobete Publishing

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Janie Bradford reflects upon her career with Motown Records

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Janie Bradford remembers The Funk Brothers

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Janie Bradford recalls turning down a partnership with Brian Holland and Lamont Dozier

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Janie Bradford remembers Motown Records' move to Los Angeles, California

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Janie Bradford describes Mountain Goat Music

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Janie Bradford talks about the Music Notes gift shop in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Janie Bradford describes the Heroes and Legends Scholarship Fund

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Janie Bradford talks about the Heroes and Legends Scholarship Fund

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Janie Bradford describes her plans for the future

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Janie Bradford talks about her favorites musicians

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Janie Bradford describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Janie Bradford reflects upon her life and legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Janie Bradford talks about her family

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Janie Bradford describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Janie Bradford narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

3$1

DATitle
Janie Bradford talks about covers of her songs
Janie Bradford talks about the Heroes and Legends Scholarship Fund
Transcript
Following the evolution of the songs, I mean the two songs, 'Money' ['Money (That's What I Want)'] and 'Too Busy Thinking About My Baby,' have been recorded by other artists all over the place. And I think the beginning of the mid-'60s [1960s], the British musicians started recording your songs, right?$$Yes, and I think The Beatles were the first British that did and then the Rolling Stones, and right there, that gold record for Flying Lizards. That was funny. My daughter [Nicole Hobbs] went to school and told her teacher that I had written that song. I said, "Why didn't you tell her I didn't write that production and arrangement?" They rearranged, Flying Lizard, "That best things in life are free, but you can give them to the birds and bees." It's one of those kind of (laughter)--I said, "Why did you tell her that," (laughter)? But I got a--I'm proud of the gold record on the wall, so (laughter).$$The Flying Lizards.$$Uh-huh.$$Okay. So, all right, so, so, is there a particular group that surprised, that you were surprised that even performed it other than the Lizards?$$Boyz II Men, because they sing such lush ballads, ballads all the time and blend their voices. And when I--was, was about two years ago they recorded 'Money' and released as their single. I was really surprised.$$Yeah, 'Money' has also been heard on commercials, right?$$Oh yeah, movies, commercials, yeah.$$Right, right. How, but how, how many--could you, can you estimate how many, many commercial or movies this appeared in?$$Oh, maybe, movies, maybe about fifty, 'cause year before last I think it was in five movies at one time that same year, so maybe fifty or more. In movies--commercials, I don't know, quite a few, and it's been recorded by various artists over three hundred times.$$So this song is--it's safe to say it's an iconic song.$$Yeah.$$And I mean, it's something that's a part of popular culture now, and I don't think you could ever get it out of it, out of popular culture today.$$I don't think so. I hope not (laughter).$$Okay. And what about 'Too Busy Thinking About My Baby,' is that--$$Yeah, Phil Collins and several others have, have recorded it, so it keeps pretty good but not compared to--well, very few songs compare to 'Money.'$$Yeah, something everybody wants.$$Um-hm, something that everybody wants (laughter).$$Okay, that was the question of the day.$$I gave the right answer.$$Okay, I think we're sitting here on the eve of the largest payout in lottery history. I mean, there, there, you know, the what's it--$$Yeah.$$--Powerball is at the highest level it's ever been as we sit here today.$$And it's in Arizona. We can't play here (laughter).$$Okay, okay.$Who are some of the recipients of the Heroes and Legends scholarships [Heroes and Legends Scholarship Fund] (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Well, one, one fellow I called when I was putting together a record label [Mountain Goat Music], I called the musicians union [American Federation of Musicians Local 47], and they switched me to this odd sounding name. And it struck me. I said I've heard that name once before, and it can't be but one person. So when I got him, I asked, I said, "Are you last year's Heroes and Legends scholarship recipient?" He's now vice president of the musicians union here in Los Angeles [California].$$Okay.$$And then Steven Ellison, we gave him a scholarship twice. When they continue, sometime we give them extended scholarship the next year to help them continue. He is now--oh, what is his, his name? Flying Lotus.$$Okay.$$He is so big in Europe. He was just here at the Hollywood Bowl [Los Angeles, California]. He was here at the Ikea theater [sic. Club Nokia; The Novo by Microsoft, Los Angeles, California], so he went on--these are the kind of clubs and things he's working and, and playing now. And then there was another, Ebony--what's Ebony's last name? But anyway, they called her Lady Sticks. So she, she's a drummer, and she have gone on to play for Sheila E. and a lot of the, the big names. So, they do go on and continue, most of them. But what happened, we give the scholarship to--they must be going to an art school first, even if it's a regular school, it must be an art department where they're studying whatever they tell us they're studying. And we give the money to the school in their name, so they have to go in order to reap the benefit of the money. And we try to give it to as many local art places as possible, so therefore, we help the school if the student should not go, which so far has never happened. But you know, we kill two birds with one stone. We're helping the school and the student at the same time.$$Okay. So these are local artists in the Los Angeles area?$$Los Angeles area or, or California, long as they're in California and so forth--$$Okay.$$--so far.$$Okay. Now this has been going on for twenty-four years now.$$Twenty-four years.$$Okay, all right.

Nancy Glenn Griesinger

Statistics professor Nancy L. Glenn was born in Charleston, South Carolina. After graduating from high school, Glenn attended the University of South Carolina where she earned her B.S. degree in mathematics in 1987 and a second B.S. degree in statistics in 1995. Glenn earned her Ph.D. degree in statistics from Rice University in Houston, Texas, in 2002, becoming the first African American to do so. Her doctoral thesis was about robust empirical likelihood, which is a statistical method of estimating a quantitative value. In 2002, Glenn worked as a postdoctoral research associate with the National Security Agency.

After completing her studies, Glenn became an assistant professor in the Department of Statistics at the University of South Carolina. In 2006, she conducted research in the fields of nonparametric statistics and bioinformatics, and contributed the findings to several academic research journals. One article examined the statistical patterns of cancer cell lines and another investigated the future implications of data analysis in evolutionary genomics, which is the study of how the DNA structure in organisms changes during evolution. Glenn remained at the University of South Carolina until 2007, when she was hired as an assistant professor in the Department of Mathematical Sciences at Texas Southern University (TSU) in Houston, Texas.

In 2008, Glenn served as the lead investigator on a research grant from the National Institutes of Health. The research develops her nonparametric spirometry reference values. In 2011, she served as the co-investigator of a research project funded by the National Aeronautics Space Administration for the Bio-nanotechnology and Environmental Research Center in the Biology Department at TSU. Glenn also developed a course at TSU that prepares science, technology, engineering, and mathematics students for graduate schools in the sciences.

Throughout her career, Glenn published many important scientific articles, and participated in several activities outside of her academic requirements. She once was the Houston representative to the American Statistical Association and served as a reviewer for several statistical publications, including the Journal of the American Statistical Association and the Journal of Probability and Statistical Science . In her role as an educator, she teaches and mentors many undergraduate and graduate students in science-related fields. Glenn works in Houston, Texas.

Nancy L. Glenn was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on [08/16/2012].

Accession Number

A2012.191

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/16/2012

Last Name

Glenn Griesinger

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

L.

Occupation
Schools

Rice University

University of South Carolina

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Nancy

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

GLE02

Favorite Season

Christmas

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

Bible quotes

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Texas

Birth Date

1/26/1965

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Houston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Statistician Nancy Glenn Griesinger (1965 - )

Employment

Texas Southern University

University of South Carolina

Rice University

Midlands Technical College

Southwestern College

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:6830,44:10924,102:11240,107:12030,118:16691,209:21194,315:28964,383:30503,412:44160,532:47285,578:81898,941:86370,1017:87230,1029:98327,1156:101715,1179:102763,1187:108153,1237:118207,1440:119077,1453:120208,1469:130804,1575:131120,1580:131673,1588:138458,1668:143150,1776:160470,1882:182860,2151$230,0:3182,34:4658,58:6708,93:7856,110:9660,135:10316,144:12792,157:13429,165:23176,308:26948,363:27522,371:28752,388:29408,397:31950,450:32606,459:42268,581:42892,590:43828,604:49626,663:50774,679:55858,767:56186,772:57580,801:63233,841:63818,847:68180,897:72550,950:78250,1018:84032,1081:87140,1139:102836,1285:103321,1291:103903,1299:104291,1304:117052,1470:118384,1489:124994,1583:126780,1591:127292,1600:130108,1662:132964,1688:134936,1724:135412,1732:139930,1772:141130,1791:142410,1806:149396,1926:152922,1944:153786,1954:154362,1963:156450,2007:190540,2132:197640,2199:204765,2300:208587,2506:215393,2613:222860,2678:224858,2712:227870,2737:228182,2744:228390,2749:229222,2763:230314,2800:230886,2815:233960,2933:249576,3088:277155,3424:286176,3567:288698,3593:294403,3608:295375,3623:295861,3630:296185,3635:296509,3640:304337,3763:306918,3824:312242,3877:328195,4041:328567,4046:330984,4101:336320,4149:337055,4163:342288,4227:346512,4324:347152,4336:347536,4343:359241,4524:359613,4529:369750,4680:382500,4729:386126,4883:386422,4888:386866,4896:387828,4911:388198,4917:388716,4925:391306,4975:402065,5076:418870,5287
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Nancy Glenn's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Nancy Glenn's lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Nancy Glenn describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Nancy Glenn describes her maternal grandfather and her mother's life in South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Nancy Glenn describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Nancy Glenn talks about her father's West African ancestry

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Nancy Glenn talks about her late father, Henry Deas

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Nancy Glenn describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Nancy Glenn describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Nancy Glenn talks about her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Nancy Glenn describes her childhood in Charleston

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Nancy Glenn describes the sights and sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Nancy Glenn describes segregation in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Nancy Glenn describes her teenage years in school in McClellanville

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Nancy Glenn talks about the 1974 integration of schools is McClellanville

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Nancy Glenn describes her experience in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Nancy Glenn describes racism in post-segregated Charleston

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Nancy Glenn describes her experience in church

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Nancy Glenn describes her extra-curricular activities in Lincoln High School

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Nancy Glenn talks about the influence of her high school guidance counselor

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Nancy Glenn talks about her high school honors and the lack of role models

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Nancy Glenn describes her decision and experience attending the University of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Nancy Glenn describes her math classes and the mentorship that she received at the University of South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Nancy Glenn contrasts the amenities at the University of South Carolina with those during her childhood in McClellanville

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Nancy Glenn describes her decision to pursue a Ph.D. in statistics

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Nancy Glenn describes her experience and mentorship at Rice University

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Nancy Glenn discusses her Ph.D. dissertation in the area of empirical likelihood

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Nancy Glenn talks about the Conference of African American Researchers in Mathematical Sciences (CARMS)

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Nancy Glenn describes meeting Art Owen and editing his book on empirical likelihood

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Nancy Glenn describes her decision to return to the University of South Carolina as a faculty member

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Nancy Glenn describes racial discrimination at the University of South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Nancy Glenn describes her productivity at the University of South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Nancy Glenn describes her most significant research publications in applied statistics and in biological sciences

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Nancy Glenn describes her departure from the University of South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Nancy Glenn describes her son's relationship with her family

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Nancy Glenn describes her own and her husband's experience as a mixed-race couple in South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Nancy Glenn describes her decision to join the math department at Texas Southern University

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Nancy Glenn describes her experience at Texas Southern University

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Nancy Glenn describes her research on spirometry reference values for Hispanic Americans

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Nancy Glenn talks about the history of Texas Southern University and its math department

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Nancy Glenn describes her experience at Texas Southern University

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Nancy Glenn describes her hopes and concerns for the young African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Nancy Glenn reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Nancy Glenn talks about her son

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Nancy Glenn talks about why she wears a burka

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Nancy Glenn talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Nancy Glenn describes her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$5

DAStory

6$1

DATitle
Nancy Glenn describes her experience and mentorship at Rice University
Nancy Glenn describes her research on spirometry reference values for Hispanic Americans
Transcript
Okay, all right, so what was the experience like at Rice [University]?$$Rice was wonderful. It was a very supportive environment. Rice has always been very progressive, even when--even when women--years ago when women were not accepted in science and math institutes, Rice was one of the first universities to do that. So it was a very open-minded liberal place. Professors were supportive, I was in a great support group, it was a wonderful experience.$$Okay. All right, now, who was your advisor?$$David Scott.$$And is there anyone at Rice that you would consider like a mentor or someone that--$$My mentor--well, all of my professors were really mentors at Rice; Dave W. Scott, Dr. Scott, Dr. Catherine Ensor, Dr. Cox; they were all mentors, very supportive people, and they treated me like everyone else. My--one of my--also one of my other mentors was Dr. Richard Tapia. He, he headed the organization called 'AGEP' Advisors for Graduate Education and the Professoriate. So I was supported through AGEP, which was a national foundation grant my entire time at Rice University. And Dr. Richard Tapia was a computational and applied math [CAM] professor. Many of my friends were in the, what we called the CAM Department. Most of my friends were in the CAM Department.$$I've heard Dr. Richard Tapia's name before in these interviews. I can't remember where now, but I've heard it before.$$He received a--several awards, not only for his profession, but also for outreach and adversity. One of those rewards was from President Clinton for, for graduating the most African Americans in math and science in a particular year. So Rice graduated four one year, and Rice is a small school of four in Ph.D.s, that is. That's one of the awards that he got--rewards that he got.$$Okay. So, when did you earn your Ph.D. from Rice?$$2002.$$Okay. All right. Okay. So you were like a TA [teaching assistant] there at Rice, I mean--$$I worked in the lab, a grader. For the most part, Rice did not allow the students to be TAs.$$Okay.$$Parents did not like that. But we could be graders and work in a lab, things like that, the computer lab.$Okay. Now, in 2011, the findings from your collaborative research with Vanessa M. Brown are published in the Journal of Immigrant and Minority Health in an article entitled 'Nonparametric Spirometry Reference Values for Hispanic Americans'. Now can you kind of explain what that's about.$$Before I did the research with spirometry reference values, it had been nothing specifically for Hispanic Americans. No research done in that area. Not on a national scale. So the way that the reference values are used is to gage lung function, and the data that I received was from the National Institutes of Health [NIH]. And in order to get some type of reference, range reference value, the National Institutes of Health used healthy individuals. But the individuals that this was based on was either white or black. And since ethnicity is major factor in determining lung function, the readings that were given for Hispanic Americans for example a Mexican American went in and did some type of lung function test to check for breathing to see if they have asthma, something like that, it would have been typically based on other whites, which could give erroneous results. So what I did was I used empirical likelihood function to devise a confidence interval for reference values, based just on data from Hispanic Americans. And the reason why I used Hispanic Americans is that's the phrase that's used by the National Institutes of Health. So in their data, they initially tried to sample all Hispanic Americans, Mexican Americans, Cubans and Puerto Ricans, and so forth, but because Mexicans were the large population, and the other populations were not large enough, the data is really based on the one function of Mexican Americans. And the reason why it was a published paper is because of now there are confidence intervals to let--let others know--to let doctors know, or anybody who use lung-function data what would be a normal range for Hispanic Americans in certain age groups and certain heights and based on gender as well. And that's what that paper focuses on.$$Okay. Now does that--from the rear here, does that satisfy a--I mean is that good, you think? OFF CAMERA VOICE: WHAT WERE THE FINDINGS AND WHAT'S THE APPLICATION USED?$$The finding was a--several different charts that one can use. For example, I had the data divided into strata, based on prior research of what 20 to 30, 30 to 40 gender, and also stratified according to weight. So the likelihood--this is where the likelihood function comes in. What is the most plausible value for the parameter? And, in this case, the parameter is the reference value. So what is the most plausible value for the reference value for that particular strata. That's what that research answered. And not only, what is the most plausible value, what are the bounds that the--the confidence interval bounds; I did 90 and 95 percent confidence intervals for that particular age group and gender for lung function. The way that it's used is when somebody goes into the doctor or (unclear). Your lung function is this, you can tell whether or not they're in the normal range or not, if their--that person's Hispanic or Mexican American.$$Okay. I guess the difference between, let's say, a Puerto Rican and a Mexican American would be, I guess the, I don't know whether it would be numerically, but I guess it would be very different because of the high altitude orientation of Mexican Americans and low altitude orientation of Puerto Ricans. Is that true?$$Well, the National Institutes of Health look mainly at the body, how, the stature of the person more than anything else. There were people who were different, but for the most part, when you look at a particular race, the other person, they're built differently, and that's what they were looking at.$$Okay. I would just think off the cuff, that Mexicans and Puerto Ricans are built differently. This is the ones I've seen.$$Yes. That's at looking at the stature.$$Okay. So, you had to add a note that this study is--applies more to Mexican Americans than to--$$That's why the title was--now that's one of the things that I said and it's--although the data from the NIH--it says Hispanic Americans, the--that was the target population, the population that they actually ended up with, because the sample size requirements was Mexican Americans. I did say that in the paper.$$Okay. So, a doctor would really have to be aware that if he was looking at--for the--if he was really doing some fine tune to the lung capacity of a, you know, a Puerto Rican, he wouldn't be--this data wouldn't be of much use to him, right?$$Right. But, I assume that it would be more use than to--it depends on that stature of the person--more use than a European American or to an African American.$$Okay.$$But it is focused just on Mexican Americans, and the way that this is different from other methods that the devise of spirometry reference values is that most of the other methods used parametric techniques. So they make assumptions about the data, about normality of the data, the reference value data, and things like that, but I did not make those assumptions in the paper. I based it all on the empirical aspects, the empirical data (unclear) data base.$$

Marion Anderson

Master tailor and tailoring instructor Marion William Anderson was born to Ethel and William Anderson on April 18, 1926, in Charleston, South Carolina. Ethel Anderson was a beautician and William Anderson was a presser. Anderson's mother encouraged him to pursue a trade at Burke Industrial High School in Charleston. In 1947, after serving the U.S. Army in Asia for a few months, he graduated from high school, majoring in tailoring. In 1949, Anderson moved to Harlem, New York, in order to look for work. After a few jobs in industrial tailoring, Anderson pursued a teaching career.

After refining his skills at the American Gentleman School of Designing, he started teaching at the Empire Trade School, a school that catered to African American World War II veterans. In 1956, Anderson began instructing prisoners in the tailor shop on Rikers Island. Four years later, he convinced the New York City Board of Education to create a tailoring curriculum, and he was hired at Sterling High School in Brooklyn, New York, where he would teach tailoring for thirty-three years. Anderson was the first African-American to be licensed by the City of New York to teach tailoring.

In 1987, Anderson founded his own school, the Manhattanville Needle Trade School, in Harlem. In 2007, Anderson celebrated his twentieth year as the director at the school. During his lengthy career, he tailored suits for many members of the Harlem elite, and taught a valuable trade to hundreds in Harlem and New York City.

Anderson passed away on February 14, 2015 at age 88.

Accession Number

A2007.193

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/29/2007

Last Name

Anderson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Schools

Henry P. Archer School in Charleston

Burke High School

University of Manila

Adelphi University

American Gentleman School of Design

First Name

Marion

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

AND08

Favorite Season

Summer

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Africa, Europe

Favorite Quote

The Highest Value Of Work Is Not That You Earn But What You Become.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

4/18/1926

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Roasted Chicken, Fish, Macaroni, Cheese

Death Date

2/14/2015

Short Description

Master tailor and tailoring instructor Marion Anderson (1926 - 2015 ) was the first person to teach tailoring at New York public schools and was the director and founder of the Manhattanville Needle Trade School in New York, New York.

Employment

Mark Riley Custom Tailor

Harry Irwing Manufacturing Company

Popular Manufacturing Company

Sam Berlin Men's Shop

John Rughermer Custom Tailors

New York (N.Y.). -- Board of Education

High School of Fashion Industries

New York (State). Department of Corrections

Empire Trade School

Manhattanville Needle Trade School

Sterling High School

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:438,11:2774,53:3650,66:5767,103:6351,118:6643,123:6935,128:14035,206:18186,244:25110,341:25758,347:29502,423:30366,435:40588,549:41745,565:42101,570:45672,605:49602,643:50832,663:51242,669:51652,675:52554,689:87415,1110:91195,1212:113374,1412:115260,1457:121246,1550:122394,1583:125592,1681:128462,1737:129036,1746:142510,1903:142990,1926:168070,2286:168840,2323:172690,2393:182250,2512:195846,2622:196110,2627:202736,2716:206680,2781$0,0:1556,33:2100,43:2508,50:2916,57:16600,295:17896,329:18949,337:19516,346:20407,366:21541,385:23971,430:24781,445:25591,450:27292,476:28021,488:55108,834:62788,932:63492,942:64372,956:71588,1116:79543,1165:96868,1489:100949,1611:114713,1758:115210,1766:122374,1847:122892,1858:128935,1933:135053,2014:142707,2150:147048,2158:147424,2163:147894,2169:154840,2240:155290,2246:156280,2260:156820,2267:157450,2275:158080,2285:158530,2291:168474,2405:170440,2410:171424,2424:172490,2447:184790,2663:195254,2766:195558,2771:195862,2779:196850,2794:197534,2804:238730,3323:249870,3466:250590,3476:250910,3481:251870,3495:252270,3502:252830,3510:259572,3553:262998,3601:263270,3606:263746,3614:265520,3635
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Marion Anderson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Marion Anderson lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Marion Anderson describes his clothing designs

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Marion Anderson describes his mother's family background and career

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Marion Anderson describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Marion Anderson describes his homes in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Marion Anderson describes his parents' professions

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Marion Anderson remembers his schooling

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Marion Anderson recalls celebrating the holidays

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Marion Anderson describes his start as a tailor

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Marion Anderson remembers his first tailoring position

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Marion Anderson recalls his mentor at Burke Industrial High School in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Marion Anderson remembers being drafted into the U.S. Army

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Marion Anderson describes his reenlistment in the U.S. Army

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Marion Anderson talks about his marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Marion Anderson describes his position as a cook in the U.S. Army

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Marion Anderson describes his experiences as a tailor at John Rugheimer, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Marion Anderson describes his experiences as a tailor at John Rugheimer, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Marion Anderson recalls managing Berlin's in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Marion Anderson remembers working at the Popular Manufacturing Company, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Marion Anderson remembers working at the Popular Manufacturing Company, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Marion Anderson recalls his decision to attend the American Gentleman School of Design in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Marion Anderson talks about New York City's garment industry

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Marion Anderson describes the American Gentlemen School of Design in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Marion Anderson remembers teaching at the Empire Trade School in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Marion Anderson recalls serving as a trade instructor at the Rikers Island prison in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Marion Anderson recalls teaching at P.S. 85 Sterling High School in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Marion Anderson remembers founding the Manhattanville Needle Trade School in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Marion Anderson describes his curriculum at the Manhattanville Needle Trade School, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Marion Anderson describes his curriculum at the Manhattanville Needle Trade School, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Marion Anderson recalls his decision to attend Adelphi University in Garden City, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Marion Anderson talks about teaching his sons to sew

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Marion Anderson talks about his daughters' education and careers

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Marion Anderson reflects upon his life

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Marion Anderson narrates his photographs

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Marion Anderson describes his garden

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$3

DAStory

5$2

DATitle
Marion Anderson describes his experiences as a tailor at John Rugheimer, pt. 2
Marion Anderson describes the American Gentlemen School of Design in New York City
Transcript
What's the difference in the skill level involved in making pants versus making these coats and do the people who you work with making pants, do they know how to make coats?$$That's a good question because some of them probably knew, but since their job is relegated to pants making, so why, why even think about it, you know, because this, this, this is the job for which they're going to be hired. So why, why even think about coat. Some of them probably grew up in, in a situation as, as an apprentice where they were exposed to coat making, but this particular firm hired them as pants makers and the whites were hired as coat makers.$$So when you decided to think about making coats, what did you do? Did you talk to your fellow workers about that?$$I told them that I was thinking about asking the boss to, to start me on coats. And they, some of them took exception because they thought that you're going to upset this boss and we don't want to make the boss mad, as they would say. Anyway I took, I pursued my effort and I made a request and they said they would consider me next spring, but since the request was made they had to allow one of the other workers, black workers, to start, like one of the other blacks, yes.$$To start doing which?$$With the coats. They were going to start somebody on coats, but was I--I wasn't going to be the one. But I, but the, the other black workers didn't make the request, but they said that they would start this person on coats and I would wait until the next spring.$$So when you asked they decided that they needed to take someone senior, or who had been there longer (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yes, exactly.$$--as a black person up into coats--$$Yes, yes.$$--and then later you would be able to do so?$$Right, right.$$And did you stay there long enough?$$I--$$Did you stay until the spring?$$I told them no. I told them if I was not allowed to work, to be allowed to make coats that I was quitting. And you don't quit Rugheimer [John Rugheimer, Charleston, South Carolina] (laughter).$$No?$$They, they would probably lynch you. (Laughter) At any rate, I, I did quit. Pants making was like slave work. You got paid according to the number of pants you made. And there were many of us who would be working Sundays at home taking those kinds of work, the part of the work that we could do at home, we would take it so we, we could make, make a decent salary at the end of the week. This is piecework. You get paid according to the number of pants that you made. So, I, when I didn't get the request to work on coats. I said I told them that I was quitting. And they made some threatening remark, "Well, you know if you quit we'll consider this when you want a recommendation," da, da, da. So, I didn't care about that either.$So could you continue to tell us about the design school that you went to?$$Oh yes, I went to the American Gentleman designing school [American Gentleman School of Design, New York, New York], that's where I learned how to draft patterns for ladies and men garments. This was one of the schools that cropped up in those, at that time to cater to World War II [WWII] veterans. And I of course, was a World War II veteran, so I was able to attend that school and the tuition of course, was covered by the government.$$Is that something that would have been covered by the G.I. Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]?$$It was the G.I. Bill, exactly. Yes, the G.I. Bill.$$And what else was available to you through the G.I. Bill--$$Well--$$--or to you and to others?$$Well, I guess the housing, perhaps, but that was the only thing that I made, made use of, the training. And at the American Gentleman school of designing I met a number of people, weird people because a lot of the students took the course in order to get the money, not because they were--unlike me, in the field professionally. And many of them were drafting patterns and didn't know what they were drafting, but they would ask me, so I became quite friendly with a lot of them. But it's amazing how a friendship could develop because I recall we use to have lunch, during our lunch period we'd go into Union Square [New York, New York], I would talk and many of these guys would tell me about the stories--the street stories about weird happenings, weird to me anyway. And I remember one particular day we'd decided as a group, there were about five of us, to walk over in the east side. Someone said let's walk over in the east side where it's a little more secluded and they started smoking marijuana and I, I realized this was what they were smoking because they started passing it around. When it, when it got to me I said, "No I'll walk ahead of you guys because I don't need that stuff." Now, I told this story because we've got to go back to my, my prison experience at Rikers Island [New York, New York]. I worked at Rikers Island as an institutional trade instructor. This is many years after this American Gentleman's exposure. And at Rikers Island, we had young inmates and I recall telling them this story about my experience at the American Gentleman School and they argued that, how could I be in a position to advise them when I didn't actually use the stuff myself, if I had used it and said well, I don't want it anymore, that's one thing, but to not to use it at all, not to experience it at all, they claimed that I don't have the--they questioned my authority to advise them against it. So I said, "You know, it's very simple. First of all, if I'm going to ignore all that I've read in newspapers and magazines about the ill effects of this thing and I'm going to ignore all of that," I said, "it would be ignorant of me to, to, to then use it." I said, "You used it, you're here as an inmate because you were curious. I'm here as your teacher and I did not use it, didn't have to, didn't think of using it." It was, it was one of those discussions things that we had on Rikers Island.$$So getting back to the American Gentleman School of Design, how long was that training and--$$The training was, it was a six month course, six months, right.$$And you said you learned patterns and--$$Um-hm. Yes, patterns, learned how to draft patterns for ladies and men.$$And when you graduated from there did you have a special title?$$I was, I already had my title as a tailor and being able to, to design patterns is just another aspect of that skill.

Herbert DeCosta, Jr.

Architect and building contractor Herbert Alexander DeCosta, Jr. was born on March 17, 1923 in Charleston, South Carolina to Herbert A. DeCosta, Sr. and Julia Craft DeCosta. DeCosta’s interest in architecture began when he was thirteen years old while working for the family construction business which was founded in 1899 by his grandfather Benjamin DeCosta. He graduated high school from the Avery Institute in Charleston in 1940 and went on to receive his B.A. degree from Iowa State College in architectural engineering in 1944.

Prior to joining the family business in 1947, DeCosta worked as an architectural engineer for the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA, now known as NASA). He returned to the DeCosta Company as Vice President and became President, serving there until his retirement in 1989. Under his leadership, the company undertook major renovation projects to preserve the historical landscape of Charleston and other areas. One of his most notable projects was the restoration of the Herndon Mansion in Atlanta, Georgia. This mansion was owned by one of the wealthiest African American men in America, Alonzo Herndon, founder of the Atlanta Life Insurance Company.

The H.A. DeCosta Company was named one of the top 100 black businesses in the nation by Black Enterprise magazine in 1979. Upon his retirement in 1989, DeCosta continued to be active in the field of preservation as a restoration consultant and project manager.

DeCosta’s work has been featured in various magazines and newspapers across the country. He has received various awards and recognitions for his contribution to Charleston, including South Carolina’s Governor’s Award and the Frances R. Edmunds Award for Historic Preservation. DeCosta passed away on December 28, 2008.

Accession Number

A2007.041

Sex

Male

Interview Date

2/2/2007

Last Name

DeCosta

Maker Category
Middle Name

Alexander

Schools

Avery Normal Institute

Immaculate Conception School

Iowa State University

First Name

Herbert

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

DEC02

Favorite Season

Spring

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Europe, South Africa

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

South Carolina

Birth Date

3/17/1923

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Charleston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken, Fish

Death Date

12/28/2008

Short Description

Construction chief executive and architect Herbert DeCosta, Jr. (1923 - 2008 ) joined his family's business in 1947, a construction company that was in existence from 1899.

Employment

National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics

Langley Field

H.A. DeCosta Company

Favorite Color

Beige

Timing Pairs
0,0:1752,26:2920,43:6980,57:26650,207:30554,288:31018,303:44668,410:98136,904:99394,926:106015,996:117491,1124:123280,1181:125906,1192:136719,1316:152510,1387:163680,1466:166630,1495:189670,1657:202356,1783:202728,1788:224222,2001:227100,2019:232765,2083:233500,2092:266310,2378$0,0:1080,8:1512,13:2700,25:14883,284:22278,378:22614,383:23118,391:23706,400:30390,485:47422,698:56070,776:56880,786:70695,1034:71500,1042:83258,1115:83554,1120:119257,1472:131716,1585:134708,1631:144244,1738:144492,1743:144740,1748:145422,1786:145794,1793:149258,1860:155682,1940:156218,1945:164574,1995:166788,2012:167895,2017:168510,2023:169740,2034:211045,2267:217702,2317:218908,2332:222094,2359:228246,2427:241243,2530:242990,2537:249220,2633:250120,2837:259270,3091:317795,3374:318159,3384:325872,3454:329100,3481:333600,3539
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Herbert DeCosta, Jr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his maternal great-grandparents' escape from slavery

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his maternal great-grandparents' life as freemen

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. talks about his maternal relatives

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his mother's upbringing and personality

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his maternal ancestors

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his father's career

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. recalls his father's contracting business

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his neighborhood in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers his early education

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers the Avery Normal Institute in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his experiences at the Avery Normal Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. recalls the music curriculum at the Avery Normal Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his extracurricular activities

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his decision to attend the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his college housing, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his college housing, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. recalls his upbringing in a wealthy family

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. recalls his influences at the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. recalls his early career

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. recalls joining his father's construction business

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers his construction projects, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers his construction projects, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers his construction projects, pt. 3

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his renovation work throughout the South

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers the Citizens Committee of Charleston County

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his civil rights activities

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers the assassinations of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. talks about his organizational involvement

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his daughters

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. talks about his marriage

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. talks about selling his construction company

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his advice to future generations

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Herbert DeCosta, Jr. narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

4$5

DATitle
Herbert DeCosta, Jr. describes his maternal great-grandparents' escape from slavery
Herbert DeCosta, Jr. remembers his construction projects, pt. 1
Transcript
Well, they were both born slaves in Macon, Georgia. And decided, they were still young, and I believe they were married in Macon, I'm not sure, but anyway, they had decided that they, no I don't think they were married, they wanted to get married and have children, but under the law at that time, the children would be slaves, you see. So they didn't want their children born as slaves so they decided that they would escape, and Ellen [Ellen Craft] was a seamstress and William [William Craft] was a carpenter and so, and she decided to disguise herself as a white gentleman. You see, she was very fair and she looked like a white person, so that's what she disguised herself as. And she had, they bought a top hat, then she had her arm in a sling and wore dark glasses, and then a bandage around her mouth because see she couldn't speak in, you know, good English, and she didn't want to be asked questions you see, so that was the reason for the bandage around the mouth so she would not have to talk. So they decided and, of course, William to be her slave, and they were supposed to be going, now they told their owners that they were going to visit their relatives and friends on Christmas Day on some nearby plantation. See, slaves, as I understand it, were permitted to visit relatives and friends on Christmas, so then, so that morning they left and boarded a train, and they ended up in Baltimore [Maryland]. Now Baltimore was the last stop before Philadelphia [Pennsylvania], which was, you know, in a free state, so the officials were very careful, you know, about slaves traveling into freed states. So then they asked for all kind of identification and they almost got caught. So it was Christmas Eve and they said, somebody told them, they said, "I traveled with them, or with him, this gentleman all the way from Macon, Georgia, and he's all right, it's Christmas Eve, just let them go on," and so that's how they got past the customs in Baltimore, and then they ended up in Philadelphia, and they lived in someone's farmhouse, and then they were taught to read and write, but things were sort of, hot you might say, so to speak, in Philadelphia, so they thought they better move on to Boston [Massachusetts]. So some friends helped them to get to Boston and while in Boston, William opened a carpenter shop or cabinet shop and Ellen continued to sew.$You had some information about buildings that you worked on early on (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Yeah. It was my early days here [at H.A. DeCosta Company]. One, we built the North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance [North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company] building, corner of Coming [Street] and Cannon Street. I designed that and built that. And that was designed to take care of adding a second story if they wanted to, but they, the Clemmons [ph.] family just sold it the other day, I see, and the father died, and the two boys inherited, of course they're not boys, they are grown men, and they decided to sell the building 'cause they got a good price for it so they sold that. And then rebuilt an educational building on Johns Island [South Carolina] for the Methodist church. See Johns Island back in those days was really kind of rural see. There wasn't any Kiawah [Kiawah Island Golf Resort, Kiawah Island, South Carolina] down there, or one on the other end, and nothing like that. It was just a sort of rural country place, and they built this building to take care of the people so they'd have some place to go up for recreation, and you know, have meetings and programs and things of that type. So that's what we built. And then we also remodeled the Carolina Savings Bank, and that was one of the banks, one of the big banks in Charleston [South Carolina]. We remodeled that. Put in new counters, a new safety deposit vault, and did things, that type of thing. Then I remember I did the drawings for the vault and then also built a parish house for our church. One of the first things we did.$$And this was St. Mark's Church [St. Mark's Episcopal Church, Charleston, South Carolina]?$$Yes.$$So you worked with your father [Herbert DeCosta, Sr.] and you become president in what year (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Nineteen--$$Nineteen sixty [1960]?$$Sixty [1960]. I think that's what it was.$$And tell me what happened after that.$$Well--$$Did you become more into undertaking more major renovation projects?$$Well, we did major renovations, you know, when he was, that was the main thing that he was interested in, you see. See then, I'm looking at this little sheet that had--(pause) we did a lot of work for a storage house and foundation. See that's the foremost preservation society in the city, and we knew a lot of people who were members of that. So when they organized about sixty years ago, we did a lot of their work. See we did 61 Laurens Street, 82 Anson Street. These were all houses that we did before the foundation and then we also did a house at 25 East Battery [Street], and that was the residence of Mr. and Mrs. Charles Drayton [Emily Beatty Drayton and Charles H. Drayton, Jr.]. He was a very wealthy northerner, who married a Charleston girl, and we, they had this big house that we renovated for them. Course it used to be a planter's townhouse and he had a house in the country and then they had beautiful townhouses. It was a beautiful townhouse that he lived in, and we, and it was someplace and we restored this, and then they also had in the back a place for servants or guests 'cause that was a two-story residence. And whether they used that, I mean, 'cause I didn't see any other places on the property that slaves could live 'cause this was, they built this place just before the Civil War see. So that must have been their house but that was a nice house, and then there was a little land, we restored a small kitchen building. It was behind that house you see.

Herbert U. Fielding

Politician Herbert U. Fielding was born on July 6, 1923 in Charleston, South Carolina to Julius and Sadie Fielding. Fielding served in the United States Army during World War II prior to attending and receiving his B.S. degree from West Virginia State College in 1948.

In 1952, Fielding took charge of the day-to-day operations of the family funeral home business, becoming President and CEO of Fielding Home for Funeral Services. Founded in 1912 by Fielding’s father, Fielding Home for Funeral Services was the largest African American-owned and operated funeral home in the state of South Carolina.

Fielding became involved in the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. He often paid for the bail of civil rights activists, picketers and demonstrators. Fielding encouraged African Americans to vote and mobilized them to memorize the constitution in order to gain voting rights.

In 1970, Fielding became the first African American to be elected a representative in South Carolina since Reconstruction. He served for three years, then returned to the South Carolina State House in 1983. In 1985, Fielding was elected to South Carolina’s State Senate, where he served until 1992. In 1990, he became the chairperson of the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus.

Fielding is a member of several organizations including the South Carolina Commission on Vocational Rehabilitation, the University of South Carolina Budget Board and the South Carolina Human Affairs Commission. He is also a vestry member at Calvary Episcopal Church in Charleston.

The Department of Transportation named Highway 61 from James Island Expressway to South Carolina Route 61 in Charleston County as the Herbert U. Fielding Connector.

Fielding was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 2, 2007.

Fielding passed away on August 10, 2015.

Accession Number

A2007.042

Sex

Male

Interview Date

2/2/2007

Last Name

Fielding

Maker Category
Middle Name

U.

Schools

Avery Normal Institute

Lincoln Academy

West Virginia State University

First Name

Herbert

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

FIE03

Favorite Season

Summer

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

Bermuda

Favorite Quote

Dad Blame It.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

South Carolina

Birth Date

7/6/1923

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Charleston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pork, Beans, Sausage

Death Date

8/10/2015

Short Description

Politician Herbert U. Fielding (1923 - 2015 ) was the first black representative elected to the South Carolina legislature since Reconstruction. He later served as the chairperson of the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus.

Employment

Fielding Home for Funeral Services

South Carolina Senate

South Carolina House of Representatives

Favorite Color

Beige, Brown

Timing Pairs
0,0:1244,7:5028,124:5630,132:13026,320:13542,328:27612,466:30048,490:43996,637:44828,646:50340,679:51068,687:51588,693:60400,744:61280,760:61920,769:62240,774:62800,780:69600,920:72420,926:73725,944:74334,952:76770,979:77640,990:88396,1089:89052,1098:95720,1157:100565,1210:102265,1234:102945,1243:110475,1310:116765,1407:129447,1561:130068,1571:131241,1586:138810,1727:139450,1736:143450,1782:144410,1799:158425,1904:159190,1914:159700,1921:169880,2026:170456,2033:181880,2147:207344,2345:207890,2353:211166,2400:215809,2424:216733,2453:218427,2486:239012,2667:243380,2753:251332,2791:252658,2796:257452,2857:261350,2887:261705,2893:271219,3062:271574,3068:272639,3081:279500,3136$0,0:658,7:1128,14:5734,124:10228,155:10898,161:13846,185:24156,291:28251,376:30162,402:30799,410:36216,444:37162,456:40774,536:46122,592:57290,706:57850,714:78810,1078:79986,1098:80672,1106:81848,1118:100660,1362:129382,1637:129817,1643:159856,1996:160186,2002:162640,2027:166684,2055:169324,2106:175608,2164:180150,2223:182828,2248:183549,2262:183961,2267:196468,2477:196778,2483:197212,2491:209500,2681:213800,2768:219400,2872:227755,2953:239798,3085:240186,3090:242745,3110:243069,3115:243393,3120:251331,3236:251655,3242:259160,3323
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Herbert U. Fielding's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Herbert U. Fielding lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Herbert U. Fielding lists his maternal relatives

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his mother's upbringing in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Herbert U. Fielding talks about his mother's family history

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his paternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Herbert U. Fielding remembers his paternal step-grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his family's roots in South Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his neighborhood in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls his paternal family's religious and business activities

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Herbert U. Fielding lists his siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his paternal family's store in Summerville, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Herbert U. Fielding describes the Avery Normal Institute in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Herbert U. Fielding remembers Lincoln Academy in Kings Mountain, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls class distinctions at Avery Normal Institute

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Herbert U. Fielding remembers his activities at Lincoln Academy

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls West Virginia State College in Institute, West Virginia

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls joining the U.S. Army during World War II

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls racial discrimination in the U.S. Army during World War II

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls serving overseas in the U.S. Army in World War II

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Herbert U. Fielding remembers returning to college after World War II

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls his return to Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his paternal grandmother's community service

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls his political activity in the late 1940s and early 1950s

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Herbert U. Fielding describes the funeral customs of Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls joining Fielding Home for Funeral Services

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls the civil rights involvement of Charleston's black business community

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his civil rights activities in Charleston

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his interactions with Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls the violence during the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls his election to the South Carolina House of Representatives

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls serving in the South Carolina House of Representatives

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Herbert U. Fielding recalls resigning from the South Carolina legislature

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his political career in the 1980s and 1990s

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Herbert U. Fielding talks about his retirement from politics

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his successors at Fielding Home for Funeral Services

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his organizational involvement

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his marriage

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Herbert U. Fielding reflects upon his life

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Herbert U. Fielding describes his advice for future generations

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Herbert U. Fielding offers advice for those seeking a career in politics

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Herbert U. Fielding narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$4

DAStory

6$4

DATitle
Herbert U. Fielding recalls his political activity in the late 1940s and early 1950s
Herbert U. Fielding describes his interactions with Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.
Transcript
So you started with the NAAC [sic. National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)] as one of your first service organizations and you began to work with your sister [Emily Fielding] here at the funeral home [Fielding Home for Funeral Services, Charleston, South Carolina].$$Yeah.$$Okay.$$Um-hm.$$So, tell me what happens next? 'Cause it's 1946 and then we go on to the--into the '50s [1950s].$$I started working here at the funeral home, and at that time, I got really involved with Esau Jenkins and the Citizens Committee [Citizens Committee of Charleston County]. And what--Esau had a nonpartisan charter for the Citizens Committee, and our basic aim was getting black folks registered to vote. It was right after 1948 when the Waring decision came down, Judge J. Waties Waring [Julius Waties Waring]. I guess you've heard of him?$$Okay, tell, tell us about that.$$Judge J. Waties Waring was a white aristocrat, but a federal judge, and he broke up the segregated Democratic Party and forced the party to, to let us in. And at, at the time, Esau was running the Citizens Committee and it had a nonpartisan charter, so we couldn't directly involve in partisan politics. So what Esau used to do, he'd call a Citizens Committee meeting and we'd go through the routine in--usually in a church and about a half an hour, forty-five minutes, and then Esau would adjourn the meeting and then call me up front and say, now--tell me to run the meeting--run the meeting and we'd turn it into a political meeting. And that's how we started the political action com- in fact, Esau taught me how to form the Political Action Committee [Political Action Committee of Charleston County]. It came right out of the Citizens Committee. And, then we started fighting for positions in the Democratic Party. And that went from one thing to the other, and we built up--in fact, at one time, the Political Action Committee of Charleston County was the strongest political organization in the State of South Carolina. Nobody could get elected without the endorsement from PAC and, and that's how we built--we started running folks for the house [South Carolina House of Representatives]. In fact, I was in the first group to run for the house in 1952. I ran with J. Arthur Brown and Frank Veal and myself. And we knew we couldn't get elected because in those days, you ran at-large in the county and they had two things in there. You had to have a full slate--they had this full slate law. The eleven members to be elected from Charleston County [South Carolina], you had to vote for all eleven, and if you didn't, your vote didn't count at all. And so when you go in there and you cast--say you got a thousand black votes and you got ten thousand white votes, you got to take your thousand black votes and put them on the black folks and you also got to put them on eight white folks, do you see what I mean? So there's no way in the world you can catch up. So we ran in 1952 really knowing that we couldn't get elected, but we ran to encourage black folks to get registered, and we got a whole lot of folks registered.$That's when I first met Martin Luther [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.] myself 'cause Esau [Esau Jenkins] had a little Volkswagen bus, and we used to drive from here to Monteagle, Tennessee. And Martin Luther would come there I think from Atlanta [Georgia], and we used to have little conferences and all up there in Tennessee. And Miss Clark [Septima Poinsette Clark] joined that group and she started teaching, and then she formed the educational schools. In fact, there's one on Johns Island [South Carolina] named after her right now. But all, all of that came out of Monteagle, Tennessee, with Martin Luther King and Myles, Myles Horton. Myles Horton was the name of the fellow that ran the camp in Tennessee [Highlander Folk School; Highlander Research and Education Center, New Market, Tennessee].$$Do you remember any conversations you had with Martin Luther King?$$Yeah, at that time?$$Um-hm.$$Well, I had a lot of conversations with Martin Luther at Myles Standish, and then Esau and I got tied in with SCLC [Southern Christian Leadership Conference] and at that time, it was a rivalry between the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] and SCLC. And we stuck--Esau and I stuck mostly with SCLC, and we'd go on conferences all over--mostly all over the South with Martin Luther. I remember one time we were in a conference with Martin Luther at, I think it was Memphis [Tennessee]. I think it was Memphis, Tennessee, and Martin Luther was up on the stage and speaking, and this white guy--Esau and I were sitting on the front seat in this big auditorium, and this white guy was sitting right next to me, and all of the sudden, he jumped up and ran up the steps and got up on the--and had on brass knuckles, and started beating on Martin Luther, and boy, Martin Luther had guards all the time, and those guards grabbed him and they were fitting to tear him up. And, and Martin Luther himself came. They--he wouldn't let them. He took the darn brass knuckles off the guy. I think that was in Memphis.$$That's something. Were you a part of the March on Washington?$$Yeah (laughter).$$Tell me about that day.$$I woke up--I don't know how in the devil I did it, but I was tired. We had gone on a train. They, they started a train way down in Florida and it stopped on the way and we picked up the train here, went straight on up and went into Grand Central Station [sic. Union Station, Washington, D.C.]. And--I think it's Grand Central Station.$$In D.C. [Washington, D.C.]?$$In D.C.$$Okay. I don't know the name of the (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) The big station.$$--train station.$$And, and I think we walked from that station to the Mall [National Mall, Washington, D.C.] and there was a bunch of us here from Charleston [South Carolina], and I got lost from my crowd. And I was tired and I laid down on the grass and put my coat under my head and went to sleep (laughter). And I--when I woke up, Martin Luther started speaking. When--that's what woke me up and I'll never forget that as long as I live.$$There were so many people.$$Oh, it was just like that. It was jam-packed.$$But how were the people treating one another?$$Oh, it was--it was like a love feast, you know, everybody. And it didn't matter who you were or what color you were or anything.

The Honorable Lucille Whipper

Academic administrator and state government administrator Lucille Simmons Whipper was born on June 6, 1928 in Charleston, South Carolina, to Sarah and Joseph Simmons. In 1944, Whipper was a student activist at her high school, Avery Institute, in Charleston, South Carolina; her graduating class sought to desegregate the College of Charleston. While a student at Talladega College, where she received her B.A. degree in economics and sociology, Whipper became involved in a movement to integrate college student organizations throughout the state. Whipper continued her graduate education in political science at the University of Chicago where she received her M.A. degree. Whipper also later earned a certificate in guidance and counseling at South Carolina State University.

In the late 1960s, Whipper served as an organizer and director of Operation Catch-Up, a tutorial program for high school students; Operation Catch-Up was a forerunner of the Upward Bound programs. In 1972, Whipper was appointed to serve as Assistant to the President and Director of the Office of Human Relations at the College of Charleston. Whipper became the College’s first African American administrator and developed its first affirmative action plan. With the support of members of the Charleston County delegation and the President of College of Charleston, Theodore Stern, Whipper organized the Avery Institute of Afro-American History and Culture committee. The committee then founded the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture in 1990.

Whipper served as vice chairman of the Democratic Party Convention in 1972 and was later elected to the Charleston District 20 School Board. In 1985, Whipper became the first African American female to serve as an elected state official from the Tri-County area. Whipper served for years on South Carolina Human Affairs Commission and sponsored two important pieces of legislation — one making marital rape a crime and the other requiring the monitoring of state agencies' hiring goals for minorities and females. In 2004, Whipper co-founded the Lowcountry Aid to Africa project, donating money to foundations and organizations helping people and families in Africa affected by AIDS.

Lucille Simmons Whipper was married to the late Rev. Dr. Benjamin J. Whipper, Sr., and lives in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. She is the mother of six children and is a grandparent.

Lucille Simmons Whipper was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on February 1, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.039

Sex

Female

Interview Date

2/1/2007

Last Name

Whipper

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widow

Schools

Avery Normal Institute

Talladega College

University of Chicago

South Carolina State University

Burke High School

Buist Academy

St. Stephen's Episcopal Church School

Speakers Bureau

No

First Name

Lucille

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

WHI11

Favorite Season

Spring

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

South Carolina

Birth Date

6/6/1928

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Charleston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chocolate

Short Description

State government administrator and academic administrator The Honorable Lucille Whipper (1928 - ) served as the organizer and director of Operation Catch-Up, the vice chairman of the Democratic Convention in 1972, a member of the South Carolina Human Affairs Commission, and the first African American administrator at the College of Charleston.

Employment

College of Charleston

Charleston County Public Schools

Charleston Public Schools

South Carolina. General Assembly. House of Representatives

Favorite Color

Green, Pink

Timing Pairs
0,0:1715,20:2475,29:5705,101:6275,108:27965,363:38260,417:40052,430:54528,531:55149,541:63370,627:64358,642:66106,699:67398,722:73022,822:83950,964:89930,1081:97630,1148:111817,1270:112303,1277:112627,1282:117898,1318:118780,1329:119172,1334:124350,1357:135492,1458:136164,1467:141120,1572:141624,1579:150620,1643:162456,1740:183775,1973:185500,2004:205030,2198:205758,2207:206486,2216:208215,2238:209307,2252:209853,2259:212401,2299:213038,2307:215040,2338:219712,2352:220576,2362:221008,2367:221872,2381:224198,2386:229685,2458:230702,2468:236013,2556:241500,2594:265846,2829:267106,2842:271642,2901:272230,2909:275470,2915:276172,2927:277108,2941:277576,2948:277888,2953:278200,2958:284128,3030:284752,3042:285766,3057:286780,3075:295944,3147:300960,3191$0,0:5408,49:7696,77:8736,86:9152,92:24446,218:24774,223:25676,237:26004,242:26988,251:27562,259:45358,549:45826,556:46450,566:51442,666:58310,740:58610,745:59135,753:63710,837:64310,846:75832,928:76197,934:76562,940:80139,1012:83140,1027:84376,1039:95345,1149:100538,1230:101126,1243:107610,1341:125674,1581:126064,1587:127624,1611:129106,1638:129964,1650:130510,1658:131056,1670:131914,1686:143612,1866:144020,1873:144700,1888:148168,1965:149936,2007:150344,2014:151092,2031:152792,2066:158544,2094:168606,2298:169230,2307:193980,2521:194320,2526:200440,2612:206140,2648:212230,2773:216360,2855:229564,3010:230032,3020:241810,3167:242960,3179:247600,3222
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Lucille Whipper's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her parents' parties

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her mother's occupation

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her mother's involvement in the church

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her stepfather's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her sister

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers the Great Depression

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her early education

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers St. Stephen's Episcopal Church School in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes the Buist School in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her early interests

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her experiences in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes the color discrimination at the Avery Normal Institute in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her college aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her mentors at the Avery Normal Institute

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers discrimination at the College of Charleston in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her high school graduation

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers Talladega College in Talladega, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls joining Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her early civil rights activism

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her social life at Talladega College in Talladega, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her husband, Stephen Edley

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers attending the University of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls teaching at the Haut Gap School on Johns Island, South Carolina

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her husband, Benjamin Whipper, Sr.

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper talks about the Gullah language

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper talks about racial discrimination

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers the birth of her daughter

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes the A Better Chance program

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her challenges at Bonds-Wilson High School

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers school segregation in South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes Operation Catch-Up

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her position at the College of Charleston in Charleston, South Carolina

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers Margaretta Pringle Childs

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her efforts to preserve the Avery Normal Institute, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her efforts to preserve the Avery Normal Institute, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her first elected office

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her election as a state legislator

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her committee involvement

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls serving on the South Carolina Human Affairs Commission

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls her challenges as a legislator

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper talks about gerrymandering

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her decision not to seek reelection

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper recalls mentoring David J. Mack, III

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her work with The Links, Incorporated

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes her presidency of the state women's Baptist convention

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper reflects upon her life

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper share a message to future generations

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - The Honorable Lucille Whipper narrates her photographs

DASession

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DATitle
The Honorable Lucille Whipper describes Operation Catch-Up
The Honorable Lucille Whipper remembers her election as a state legislator
Transcript
You participated in tutorial program for black children in Charleston County [South Carolina]?$$Yeah during Johnson's [President Lyndon Baines Johnson], I think I was then at Burke [Burke High School, Charleston, South Carolina].$$Okay.$$During the War on Poverty when, what, what they call equal opportunity commissions or something under the War on Poverty the county was granted money to establish commissions for programs for economic and educational opportunity and Charleston County established the OEO, I think you call it, Office of Economic Opportunity, and they had the various programs. They established Head Start programs. Our church in the city, my husband's [Benjamin Whipper, Sr.] church, was one of the first to have a Head Start program.$$What church was this?$$St. Matthew--$$Matthew okay.$$--Baptist Church [St. Matthew Baptist Church, North Charleston, South Carolina].$$Okay.$$'Cause I went to all of the community meetings and so forth to find out. At least I was keeping up with the program as it was developing through [U.S.] Congress and so I was well aware of what, what purposes it could serve and so forth and I was focusing on what could be done as far as education was concerned. And so when they established the OEO office I knew the people that were on the commission and even the people who were staffing and together, besides the Head Start program that they started and one was at my church, we wrote a proposal for a tutorial program. I was still impressed by the ABC program [A Better Chance] and what they did in the summer and things like that, so we established what we called Operation Catch-Up, which was sort of the beginning of the Upward Bound idea of working with students and enrichment program in the summer and then tutoring them during the school year. And so we established Operation Catch-Up that worked in the county, worked throughout the county. It was most, in the summer we had a summer program, I think the first summer program was at my church, St. Matthew. Again, I got the church involved all these things, and then the next year we were at the Catholic school and I think one year we were at Burke one summer. And we employed graduate students from the northeastern universities, became faculty, and that created a lot of stir because they lived in the homes of the students, and there was some negative new, news stories about that, you know these white--$$White.$$--graduate students living in black homes, and then the curriculum, 'Lord of the Flies' [William Golding], and all of that stuff coming down with all that, that type of curriculum. So, we got some negatives on that score, and I directed that project and gave it up, I forgot when. I think I probably gave it up when I moved to the College of Charleston [Charleston, South Carolina]. But, that program really identified a lot of students and assisted them into college being ready to go into just any school that they wanted to go into. It was a very enriching experience for them, and we expanded it throughout the county and we had stations for tu, tutoring and homework throughout the county of, in the city and in the various areas of the county.$So what happens next?$$The next thing was that I thought I was living in the district that, where a vacancy occurred. We'd gone to single member districts, okay, the state, and the representative for District 109 had been indicted with some charges, federal charges, and was it federal or state charges, that's Representative Woods [Robert Roosevelt Woods]. He had become very powerful, chaired the Ways and Means Committee [House Ways and Means Committee] in the state, as with blacks we always, always say when you get to have certain power you better watch out because somebody is waiting to get you on maybe some charge you never even thought about. He was a minister and had, I think he had a Head Start, if not a Head Start he had some federal program and so they threw all of that into whatever they charged him with. So, the district became vacant and I thought that I lived, I did not look at the boundaries, I was about three blocks outside of when I decided that I was gonna run with my husband's permission and enthusiasm, family, everybody yeah go for it. So, I had to move into the district. We built that house, and I was a few blocks outside of the district. And I thought it would be easy for me to find a house in the district. Couldn't find a house in the city, that's how I got in Mount Pleasant [South Carolina] because all my life I've been in the city, except no when we first got married I was in North Charleston [South Carolina]. So, I had to look at the laws as to when you had to be in the district legally and so forth, and we rented after my first announcement and I made sure that, and it was very interesting because some of the first questions people would ask, "What a minister's wife doing running for a political office?" And I said, "What a minister doing," 'cause we had many ministers--South Carolina is one of those states that you don't really get paid to be a legislator, you know you get a stipend. And that of course know, you know holds back a lot of people from running for political office because you gotta work, but pastors were more flexible, so you would find everyday to have a lot of pastors and I said, "Well if the pastor can run for political office I sho' don't see why his wife can't." My husband [Benjamin Whipper, Sr.] had no problems with it at all, and so we moved into the district. We finally found a house and moved into the district; I've downsized since then. I was very interesting, very interesting. I had to fight one of the person who also offered was a male who was a long-time activist, at least he was among those that had desegregated the golf club. He was supported by most of the Democratic leaders like Hollings [Ernest Hollings], you know and so folks said, "You sure are crazy that you're gonna run against," what they call him Big John. He was the, the key person in all of the elections and so forth and so on. And so I told them I thought I could be, beat him because at the level that I had worked, you know with that Operation Catch-Up, I've been all in the county, I knew parents all over the county and Big John was just in political environment more so, and so that was my first battle and I won that in the primary.

Georgette Seabrooke Powell

Art therapist, non-profit chief executive, and painter Georgette Ernestine Seabrooke Powell was born on August 2, 1916 in Charleston, South Carolina to Anna and George Seabrooke. Powell grew up in the Yorkville neighborhood of New York City. In the 1930s, she graduated from Washington Irving High School in New York City. She also studied art at the Harlem Art Workshop and the Harlem Community Art Center. In 1933, Powell began majoring in art at Cooper Union Art School in New York, and during this time she was selected to be a part of the Works Progress Administration (WPA), Federal Arts Project.

As an artist through the WPA from 1936-1939 she created murals at Queens General Hospital and Harlem Hospital as well as and did some public art. In 1959, Powell's family moved to Washington, D.C., where she became immersed in Washington's arts society. Studying art therapy in the early 1960s, at the Metropolitan Mental Health Skills Center and the Washington School of Psychiatry, Powell became a registered arts therapist through the American Art Therapy Association. She taught art to promote skill building and self-esteem with mentally ill patients at D.C. General Hospital’s Department of Psychiatry. In 1973, Powell earned her B.F.A. degree from Howard University. In 1975, she founded and directed the Tomorrow’s Art World Center, Inc. to assist young aspiring artists. Powell was a member and President of the District of Columbia Art Association between 1974 and 1998.

Powell’s artistry appeared in seventy-two major art exhibits between 1933 and 2003. She exhibited throughout the United States and in Venezuela, Nigeria and Senegal. Her exhibits have included: a one woman show, “Radiance and Reality,” which she showcased at the Children’s National Medical Center in Washington; and a 1995 show, “Art Changes Things” which was sponsored by the Smithsonian Institute. Her works hang in distinguished permanent collections across the country. An example is "Grandmother’s Birthday," which was acquired by and hangs at the Johnson Publishing Company in Chicago, Illinois.

Georgette Ernestine Seabrooke Powell resides in Palm Coast, Florida and enjoys the company of her three children, grand-children and great-grandchildren.

Georgette Seabrooke Powell passed away on December 27, 2011 at the age of 95.

Georgette Ernestine Seabrooke Powell was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 8, 2006.

Accession Number

A2006.135

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/8/2006

Last Name

Powell

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widow

Middle Name

Seabrook

Schools

Washington Irving High School

Fordham University

Washington School of Psychiatry

Turtle Bay Music School

Cooper Union

P.S. 6 Lillie D. Blake School

Howard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Georgette

Birth City, State, Country

Charleston

HM ID

POW08

Favorite Season

Spring

State

South Carolina

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Florida

Birth Date

8/2/1916

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Palm Coast

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Rice, Okra, Gumbo, Chicken, Fish

Death Date

12/27/2011

Short Description

Art therapist, nonprofit chief executive, and painter Georgette Seabrooke Powell (1916 - 2011 ) was the last of the Black Renaissance painters of the 1930's Works Progress Administration. Her paintings appeared in over seventy-two major art exhibits.

Employment

United States Works Progress Administration

District of Columbia General Hospital

District of Columbia Department of Recreation

Powell's Lodge Art Studio

Tomorrow's World Art Theater

Favorite Color

Blue, Violet

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Georgette Seabrooke Powell's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls moving to New York City as a child

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her family's life in New York City

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers attending New York City's P.S. 6

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her early interest in art

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her education at P.S. 6

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls her decision to attend Washington Irving High School

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her childhood friends

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers Washington Irving High School

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her early art pieces

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers the Harlem Arts Workshop

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls the art workshops in Harlem

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls seeking employment after high school

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recall her admission to the Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes the Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls being hired by the Works Progress Administration

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers creating a mural at Harlem Hospital

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls the opposition to her mural at Harlem Hospital, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls the opposition to her mural at Harlem Hospital, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her mural, 'Recreation in Harlem'

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her work with the Works Progress Administration Federal Arts Project

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls meeting her husband

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers moving to Washington, D.C.

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her children

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell talks about returning to Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers opening the Powell Art Studio

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her introduction to art therapy

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls working in art therapy in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes the impact of art therapy

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell talks about the collectors of her art

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers earning her degree at Howard University

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls travelling with Lois Mailou Jones

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls founding the Operation Heritage Art Center in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers changing the name of her art center

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell reads a letter from President Ronald Reagan

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her community art projects

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell talks about her art exhibitions

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls her exhibit at the Charleston Black Arts Festival

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell reflects upon the changes in her artistic style

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes her plans for the future

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell remembers her collaboration with Allan Crite

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell reflects upon her life

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Georgette Seabrooke Powell narrates her photographs

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Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls travelling with Lois Mailou Jones
Georgette Seabrooke Powell recalls founding the Operation Heritage Art Center in Washington, D.C.
Transcript
When you were at Howard [Howard University, Washington, D.C.] in the school without walls [University Without Walls] studying art--$$Yeah.$$--did you know and meet Lois Jones [Lois Mailou Jones] at that time?$$Well, I--$$Was she around?$$Yes, prior to that, and I don't know (unclear). My children have been instrumental in many ways in finding about things, like, of course, my daughter [Phyllis Powell Washington] (unclear) Blue Cross, Blue Shield. But, Richard [Richard Victor Powell], again, he had found out, you know, he says, "You and daddy [George Powell] have not taken any trips, any long trips or anything. In fact, I don't think I've been on a plane with you." And so it was this 'round the world trip, and Lois Jones had, had the trips planned for her students each year. And this was a biggie. This was a big--this was around the world. And so we found, we said, okay, we'll try to go. And that, actually, I think I met Lois before, but it, more and more, a closer friendship. And actually, there weren't that many students who signed up, but there were some people, older people and so forth, and we had a wonderful time. It was, only about seventeen or eighteen of us, you know. And we went around the world in thirty-five days.$$Wow, with Lois?$$With Lois (laughter).$$Okay.$$(Laughter) An introduction to all the countries. And, well, of course, Africa was not included, but we went to New Delhi [India], Hong Kong, you name it. It was that, yeah.$You started, I think it was 1969, something called Tomorrow's World Art Center [Operation Heritage Art Center; Tomorrow's World Art Center, Washington, D.C.] (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Tomorrow's--$$Tell me about that. What was that?$$Yeah, that's another thing. Since, living in the Bronx [New York] and so forth, neighborhood, as neighborhood folks and people who want to improve their, you know, environment and so forth, we had made up an organization, Patona [ph.] community organization, cooperate in the interest of your neighbor and so forth. And, and those folks, they used to make a paper, and they turned our house into a meeting place and so forth and so on. And so therefore, I think that sort of helped me to want to do things when I didn't come down to Washington [D.C.], not knowing anyone, I soon did find out that there were groups of artists. Number one, I was able to be admitted in the D.C. Teachers College [District of Columbia Teachers College; University of the District of Columbia, Washington, D.C.] for the Saturday classes and so forth. And then the other was, mingling with more people, I decided to work part time with the department of recreation [D.C. Department of Parks and Recreation] and so forth, and they, too, had the art classes and so forth. And this was on, I--when I had the studio on 14th Street, my son, Richard [Richard Victor Powell], decided to go back to Chicago [Illinois] to live, and I walked the streets, and I found this spacious and very nice building. And it had a office available, and so I rented that as a studio for myself. And then I said--the next one became available. I rented that. And then my mind, to me, I said people aren't doing enough for each other here. It's not like New York [New York]. I didn't see this feeling of coming together. And that really was a no, no. So, then I said, well, there was this young man who I had met through just association of one another, you know, attending the neighborhood affairs and so forth. And he said, oh. He had just put together Operation Heritage, and I said, "Well, that's nice. What do you do?" And he named how he wanted it, just enlarged in terms of writing all of these kinds of things, including arts. And I thought that was great. And, but then I had the space, but he had the idea. And, but he talked, talked, talked in thankfulness, and to this day, he--I sort of thank him in a way, too, because I said, you know, to do--and talk about something and not being able to have a team. So that was when I first put in for the first grant to the national endowment to have classes up at this, at the art center which we first named Operation Heritage Art Center.$$I see.$$And, so that went on several years.$$Um-hm.