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David B. Wilkins

Legal scholar and law professor David B. Wilkins was born on January 22, 1956 in Chicago, Illinois. His father, attorney Julian Wilkins, became the first black partner at a major law firm in Chicago in 1971. Wilkins graduated from the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools in 1973. He received his A.B. degree in government with honors in 1977 from Harvard College and his J.D. degree with honors in 1980 from Harvard Law School. While in law school, Wilkins was a member of the Harvard Civil Rights Civil Liberties Law Review, the Harvard Law Review, and the Harvard Black Law Students Association.

Upon graduation, Wilkins served as a law clerk to Chief Judge Wilfred Feinberg of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Wilkins then clerked for United States Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall from 1981 to 1982. In 1982, Wilkins worked as an associate specializing in civil litigation at the law firm of Nussbaum, Owen & Webster in Washington, D.C. He then joined the faculty of Harvard Law School in 1986 as an assistant professor. Wilkins was appointed as Director of the Program on the Legal Profession in 1991 and received tenure in 1992, making him the school’s fourth African American tenured professor and the sixth in the history of the school. He served as the Kirkland and Ellis Professor of Law from 1996 until 2008, when he became the Lester Kissel Professor of Law. In 2009, Wilkins was appointed as Vice Dean for Global Initiatives on the Legal Profession and Faculty Director of the Program on the Legal Profession at Harvard Law School.

As a legal scholar, Wilkins authored over sixty articles on the legal profession, and co-authored, along with Andrew Kaufman, Problems in Professional Responsibility for a Changing Profession. In addition, Wilkins served as a Senior Research Fellow of the American Bar Foundation and a member of the Faculty Committee of the Harvard University Edmond J. Safra Foundation Center for Ethics. Wilkins has also lectured on various issues in legal studies internationally as well as in the United States. Harvard Law School honored Wilkins with the Albert M. Sachs – Paul Freund Award for Teaching Excellence in 1998 and the J. Clay Smith Award in 2009. He received the Order of the Coif Distinguished Visitor Fellowship in 2008 and was honored as the American Bar Foundation Scholar of the Year Award in 2010. In 2012, Professor Wilkins was elected as a Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. In 2012, Wilkins was honored with an Honorary Doctorate of Laws degree from Stockholm University in Stockholm, Sweden, the Distinguished Visiting Mentor Award from Australia National University, and the Genest Fellowship from Osgoode Hall Law School.

Wilkins and his wife, Ann Marie WIlkins, live in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

David B. Wilkins was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 29, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.109

Sex

Male

Interview Date

4/29/2013 |and| 10/18/2016

Last Name

Wilkins

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Brian

Occupation
Schools

Harvard University

Harvard Law School

University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

First Name

David

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

WIL63

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France

Favorite Quote

Just Do It.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Interview Description
Birth Date

1/22/1956

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Boston

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Macaroni and Cheese

Short Description

Lawyer and law professor David B. Wilkins (1956 - ) was the Lester Kissel Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. He also served as the vice dean for global initiatives on the legal profession and faculty director of the program on the legal profession and the Center on Lawyers and the Professional Services Industry.

Employment

Harvard University Law School

Harvard University

American Bar Association (ABA)

Nussbaum, Owen and Webster

Supreme Court of the United States

United States Court of Appeals, Second Circuit

Kirkland and Ellis LLP

McDonald's

Commonwealth Edison Company

Covington and Burling LLP

Morrison and Foerster LLP

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of David B. Wilkins' interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins talks about his sister's research on their family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins recalls his family's connection to the United Methodist Church

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins talks about his paternal uncle, J. Ernest Wilkins, Jr.

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins talks about his father's education and U.S. military service

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins recalls how his parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins describes his paternal family's legacy at the Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins remembers his paternal grandfather's tenure in the U.S. government

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins talks about the founding of Seaway National Bank in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins talks about his father's transition to Jenner and Block in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's tenure at Jenner and Block, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's tenure at Jenner and Block, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins talks about the creation of Lafontant, Wilkins and Fisher in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins remembers his father's death

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's personality

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins recalls a family trip to South America

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins remembers his mother

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins recalls graduating from Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins talks about his father's and paternal uncle's legal careers

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins describes his siblings

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins talks about his brothers' international travels

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins recalls his childhood on the South Side of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins remembers moving to Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins describes the racial demographics of the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins remembers his classmates at the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins talks about his friendship with Arne Duncan

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins describes his family's relationship with the Bowman family

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins recalls his interest in debate at the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins talks about the environment of the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins talks about the environment of the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins remembers his high school debate coach, Earl Bell

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins recalls the gang activity on the South Side of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins remembers the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins talks about the segregation of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's political affiliations

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins talks about his paternal family's prominence

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins describes his decision to attend Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins recalls the political climate of the early 1970s

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins remembers the African American community in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins describes the founding of the Black Students Association at Harvard University

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins remembers the African American faculty members at Harvard University, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - David B. Wilkins remembers the African American faculty members at Harvard University, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Slating of David B. Wilkins' interview, session 2

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins talks about his father's experiences at the Harvard Law School, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins talks about his father's experiences at the Harvard Law School, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins describes his father's influence on his career

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins remembers the African American community at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins recalls his classmates at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins remembers meeting Al Haymon at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins talks about the increase of African American students at Harvard University

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins talks about the Black Students Association at Harvard University

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins describes his involvement in theater and radio at Harvard University

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins talks about his experiences of racial discrimination in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins remembers Anthony R. Chase and his wife at Harvard University

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins describes his summer position at the Commonwealth Edison Company

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins recalls his decision to attend Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins remembers his professors at Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins recalls meeting his wife, Ann Marie Wilkins

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins talks about his father's decision to leave Jenner and Block in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins recalls joining the Harvard Law Review

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins describes his experiences clerking at Kirkland and Ellis, LLP in Chicago, Illinois, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins describes his experiences clerking at Kirkland and Ellis, LLP in Chicago, Illinois, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins talks about the emergence of critical legal studies at Harvard Law School

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins talks about his clerkships

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins describes his experiences on the Harvard Law Review

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - David B. Wilkins remembers working with Harold Hongju Koh at the Harvard Law Review

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins remembers his colleagues at the Harvard Law Review

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins talks about his paternal uncle's thoughts on his career

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins describes his clerkship for Justice Wilfred Feinberg

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins remembers clerking in the U.S. Supreme Court for Thurgood Marshall, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins remembers clerking in the U.S. Supreme Court for Thurgood Marshall, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins describes his position at Nussbaum, Owen and Webster in New York City

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins remembers his Harvard Law School professor, Clarence Clyde Ferguson, Jr.

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins remembers being approached to teach at Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins recalls the controversy surrounding Jack Greenberg's course at Harvard Law School

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins remembers his interview at Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins talks about the different levels of professorship at the Harvard Law School

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins recalls the first African American professors at Harvard Law School

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins describes his initial faculty presentation at Harvard Law School

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - David B. Wilkins recalls his first year of teaching at Harvard Law School

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - David B. Wilkins talks about the first class he taught at Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - David B. Wilkins describes his position as a graduate assistant at Harvard Law School

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - David B. Wilkins remembers his transition to teaching at Harvard Law School

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - David B. Wilkins talks about Charles Ogletree's career at Harvard Law School

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - David B. Wilkins talks about the faculty and students of Harvard Law School

Tape: 12 Story: 6 - David B. Wilkins remembers Derrick A. Bell, Jr.

DASession

1$2

DATape

2$10

DAStory

4$4

DATitle
David B. Wilkins remembers his paternal grandfather's tenure in the U.S. government
David B. Wilkins remembers clerking in the U.S. Supreme Court for Thurgood Marshall, pt. 1
Transcript
So Wilkins, Wilkins and Wilkins in Chicago [Illinois].$$Yes.$$That's the law firm.$$That's the law firm.$$Okay.$$And it was a typical you know black law firm of its day. Meaning it served primarily, if not almost exclusively, a clientele of black individuals and small black businesses. My grandfather [J. Ernest Wilkins, Sr.] had built it up over the years at the time in which there were very few black lawyers in Chicago. He'd become well known in the Chicago legal circle. He was one of the few black lawyers who had gone to a prestigious law school [University of Chicago Law School, Chicago, Illinois]. He was active in Republican politics. This was at the time in which it was still the party of Lincoln [President Abraham Lincoln] and so most blacks were Republicans. That--it was through that combination of being prominent in the legal community, he was prominent--he was the head of the Cook County Bar Association, which was the black lawyers association, and also was a member of the ABA [American Bar Association] and of the Chicago Bar Association, again for black lawyers was very unusual, and I think it was that combination plus his role in politics which brought him to the attention of the Eisenhower administration [President Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower]. That's why he got selected for that position and when he left to go to Washington [D.C.], my father [Julian Wilkins] took over the law firm and very quickly thereafter, and I can't quite get the chronology, it might have even been before my grandfather went to Washington, my uncle [John R. Wilkins] also left the firm. First, to go to be a law clerk to William Hastie [William H. Hastie] who by that time was now a federal judge on the United States Court of Appeals of the Third Circuit [U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit]. Although he could have been when he was a district judge. Actually I should look that up to make sure. But he was Hastie's first law clerk and I'm pretty sure it was on the Third Circuit. Then my uncle went on to government service where he worked in the Agency for International Development [United States Agency for International Development] living in India for several years and eventually became--was appointed by President Kennedy [President John Fitzgerald Kennedy] to be the general counsel of the Agency for International Development, where he became the first black general counsel of that organization. And until, I think this is fair to say, until the Obama administration [HistoryMaker President Barack Obama] or certainly until the Clinton administration [President William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton], the only black general counsel. There has now been at least one more and maybe two more. Then he left there to become a professor at the University of California law school at Berkeley [University of California Berkeley School of Law, Berkeley, California], the Boalt school of law, where he became the first black professor of that law school and only the second black faculty member in the entire Berkeley campus [University of California, Berkeley, Berkeley, California]. So he joined there '63 [1963] or '64 [1964] shortly after Kennedy was assassinated.$$Okay.$$My grandfather, in a history that actually is chronicled very well in my sister's book ['Damn Near White: An African American Family's Rise from Slavery to Bittersweet Success,' Carolyn Marie Wilkins], was--held his position for something like two or three years but eventually resigned in the course of a power struggle controversy around the direction of the labor department [U.S. Department of Labor] particularly, (cough) excuse me, in international affairs. So my grandfather had been the delegate to the International Labour Organization, which was a very important hotbed of controversy in the 1950s during the Cold War. And my father's--and my grandfather's appointment there was seen as a kind of way for the United States to blunt the criticism of the Soviet Union, that the U.S. was hostile to labor and particularly to black labor. So he was very much a symbol of his race in that organization and in a story that we still don't fully understand, he got into a power struggle with a new--Eisenhower had a new secretary of labor [James P. Mitchell] who was brought in the second term, I think so in nineteen fifty--fifty- no it was during the first term, it must have been in '55 [1955] or something like that, '54 [1954], '55 [1955]. Eventually my grandfather resigned and it was a big controversy about the resignation. There were lots of stories in the paper. My sister [HistoryMaker Carolyn Wilkins] writes about this in the book. But my grandfather stayed living in Washington as he decided what he was going to do and he died very tragically of a heart attack in his, he was in his mid-fifties. And, so he never came back to the firm.$So is it an easy thing once you work on the law review [Harvard Law Review] to clerk? Is it (simultaneous)--?$$(Simultaneous) It's an easy thing to get--almost everybody gets a clerkship--$$Clerkship.$$--but then it's incredibly competitive about which clerkships you get, and the most prestigious ones are on the D.C. Circuit [U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit] or on the Second Circuit [U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit], and particularly those which were thought to be quote feeders for the [U.S.] Supreme Court. Meaning that they send--judges who sent a lot of law clerks up to clerk on the Supreme Court.$$So Feinberg [Wilfred Feinberg], he was a feeder?$$So he was--I didn't fully realize it at the time, but because he was sitting in Thurgood Marshall's seat and Thurgood Marshall was the circuit justice for the Second Circuit. He would take often a Feinberg clerk, not always, it wasn't quite like a Skelly Wright [J. Skelly Wright] and Brennan [William J. Brennan, Jr.], where Brennan would just take all of Skelly Wright's clerks. But it was a very--it turned out to be a very advantageous clerkship for me to get, my ultimate dream was to clerk for Thurgood Marshall which was an incredible experience (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) So, so can you talk about that?$$So, you know people ask me--$$'Cause at that point what age is he?$$So, he's old, he's like seven- well, I mean he's getting younger every day because now as I turn sixty, seventy-eight I think he was or seventy--he was in his seventies, it doesn't seem all that old to me actually. But I think seventy-eight sticks out in my mind. And when people ask me what he was like I say he's kind of like your grandfather, meaning he had a lot of--your grandfather lived an amazing life. So he was really smart and he had lots of wisdom, but he also didn't have a lot of patience and he pretty much knew exactly what he was going to do and what he wasn't going to do and he really didn't put up with much. We'd be arguing with him and we'd be--the law clerks would be saying, "Judge, you have to do this," or, "You have to do that," and he would say, "You know, I only have to do two things; stay black and die" (laughter). That would kind of be the end of the argument. Or he'd turn around and he would point to the wall and he'd say, "President Johnson [President Lyndon Baines Johnson] signed my commission. Who signed yours?" (Laughter) So again that was sort of the end of the argument, right. People say, "What do you remember most?" And, "What's the best thing?" And of course there were these amazing arguments and I saw these amazing lawyers including--Larry Tribe [Laurence Tribe] came and argued a case. Walking up the steps to work in this marble building [Supreme Court Building, Washington, D.C.] was just incredible. But the best part had nothing to do with the law, although I realized it had everything to do with the law, because the best parts were the stories. Everyday about four o'clock, just like your grandfather, he would kind of walk into the office, so he--the way the office worked was each of the justices has a kind of a suite. It's a really weird building, so basically each of them occupies a kind of corner of the building and there are all these separate stairways and elevators and stuff. So actually they hardly ever see each other and you hardly ever see another human being walking in the halls, 'cause there are only nine people that live there and it's a building that's as big as an enormous city block. Most of the people who aren't justices work in the interior of the building, like the clerks and the clerks' office, and then the rest of it is just for these nine what were guys until my first--the year I clerked it was Sandra Day O'Connor's year and so then it wasn't just nine guys anymore, and they stopped calling them Mr. Justice, which I always regretted. I always thought the coolest thing in the world would be to be called Mr. Justice (laughter). So it was a weird building, but anyway Marshall's office was on the--the justice's office was on the corner of course, and then there was a middle office where he had--there were two secretaries and a messenger and then the far office was where the law clerks sat. And there was a big overstuffed chair at the corner by the door and--by the interior door and everyday about four o'clock the judge would kind of walk in and he'd sit down in the chair and he would just start telling stories. He was a master storyteller. All kinds of stories, stories about Brown [Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, 1954], stories about escaping lynchings. But also stories about his son, John [John W. Marshall], who is a Virginia State trooper and how they would set speed traps for people, or stories about the custodians who he knew the names of every single custodian who was in the building, or about his marshal who had been with him since the solicitor general's office. His name was Mr. Gaines [ph.]; we called him Gaines. When I first started telling people, I was always kind of sheepish about--I should be talking about the great decisions that were there. I don't even remember--if you press me I could remember one or two cases that were decided and one or two cases that I worked on that I'm proud of. But we only wrote dissents and when we got majority opinions they were like stupid cases, you know that were nine nothing because by that time Burger [Warren E. Burger] was in charge, and it was the Burger court and Marshall and Brennan were totally marginalized.

Dorothy Roberts

Law Professor Dorothy E. Roberts was born in 1956. In 1977, she graduated from Yale College, magna cum laude, where she was also elected to Phi Beta Kappa. Three years later, in 1980, Roberts graduated from Harvard Law School with her J.D., and for the next year she served as a law clerk for Hon. Constance Baker Motley in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. After her admission to the New York State Bar in 1981, Roberts worked as an associate in the law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison until 1988.

From 1998 to 1994, Roberts was an Associate Professor of Law at Rutgers University School of Law-Newark, and from 1994 to 1998, she was a Professor of Law. While there, she served as the Faculty Graduation Speaker in both 1992 and 1996; visiting Associate Professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School in 1994; fellow at the Harvard University Program in Ethics and the Professions from 1994 to 1995; and as visiting professor at Northwestern University School of Law in 1997. In 1998, she joined the faculty of Northwestern School of Law with a joint appointment as a faculty fellow at the Institute for Policy Research; in 2002, she was named the Kirkland & Ellis Professor at the Northwestern University School of Law. While at Northwestern, Roberts served as visiting professor at Stanford Law School in 1998; as a Fulbright Fellow at the Centre for Gender and Development Studies at the University of the West Indies, Trinidad & Tobago from 2002 to 2003; and as the Bacon-Kilkenny Distinguished Visiting Professor at the Fordham University School of Law in 2006.

Recipient of the 1998 Radcliffe Graduate Society Medal and the 1999 Freedom of Choice Award from the Chicago Abortion Fund, Roberts published her first book, Killing the Black Body: Race, Reproduction, and the Meaning of Liberty, in 1997. The book earned her a 1998 Myers Center Award for the Study of Human Rights in North America. In 2001, she published her second book, Shattered Bonds: The Color Of Child Welfare, which received research awards from the Institute on Domestic Violence in the African American Community and the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children. Recipient of the 2007 Leadership Award from the Chicago Legal Advocacy for Incarcerated Mothers, in 2009 Roberts earned the Family Defender Award from the Family Defense Center and the YWomen Leadership Award from the YWCA Evanston/North Shore.

Roberts was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 27, 2010.

Accession Number

A2010.104

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/27/2010

Last Name

Roberts

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Harvard Law School

Yale University

Evanston Township High School

Beulah Shoesmith Elementary School

Cairo American College

First Name

Dorothy

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

ROB22

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

I Can Do All Things Through Christ That Strengthens Me.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Pennsylvania

Interview Description
Birth Date

3/8/1956

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Philadelphia

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Grilled Haddock

Short Description

Law professor Dorothy Roberts (1956 - ) was the Kirkland & Ellis Professor at the Northwestern University School of Law and the author of Killing the Black Body: Race, Reproduction, and the Meaning of Liberty.

Employment

Northwestern University Law School

Rutgers University School of Law-Newark

Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison

U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York

Fordham University School of Law

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Dorothy Roberts' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Dorothy Roberts lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Dorothy Roberts describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Dorothy Roberts describes her mother's education

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Dorothy Roberts talks about her Jamaican ancestry

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Dorothy Roberts describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Dorothy Roberts describes her father's personality and interests

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her father's study of interracial marriage

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Dorothy Roberts describes her grandparents' reactions to her parents' interracial marriage

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Dorothy Roberts describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her home inChicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Dorothy Roberts remembers her family's activities

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her home life

Tape: 1 Story: 15 - Dorothy Roberts describes the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 16 - Dorothy Roberts remembers Beulah Shoesmith Elementary School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Dorothy Roberts recalls the influence of her teachers at Beulah Shoesmith Elementary School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her early interest in academics

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Dorothy Roberts lists her sisters

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Dorothy Roberts describes her early political activism

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Dorothy Roberts talks about her family's time in Egypt

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her family's move to Evanston, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her experiences at Evanston Township High School in Evanston, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her early aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her activities at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Dorothy Roberts describes her peers at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her activism at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her classmate, Hugh Gross

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Dorothy Roberts talks about the development of her research and writing skills

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her decision to attend the Harvard Law School

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her involvement in the National Black Law Students Association

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Dorothy Roberts describes her classmates at the Harvard Law School

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her clerkship under Judge Constance Baker Motley

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her experience clerking for Constance Baker Motley

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Dorothy Roberts recalls a trademark case at the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Dorothy Roberts remembers the case of Moe v. Dinkins

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Dorothy Roberts talks about the role of legal clerks

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Dorothy Roberts recalls joining the law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton and Garrison LLP

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Dorothy Roberts describes her casework at Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton and Garrison LLP

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Dorothy Roberts talks about her family

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Dorothy Roberts recalls the development of her interest in reproductive rights

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Dorothy Roberts recalls teaching at the Rutgers Law School in Newark, New Jersey

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Dorothy Roberts recalls teaching at the Northwestern University School of Law in Evanston, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Dorothy Roberts describes her article on black reproductive rights in the Harvard Law Review

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Dorothy Roberts talks about her book, 'Killing the Black Body'

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Dorothy Roberts describes her scholarship on reproductive justice

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her fellowship from the Harvard Program in Ethics and the Professions

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her visiting professorship at the University of Pennsylvania Law School

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Dorothy Roberts describes her research at Northwestern University

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Dorothy Roberts describes her research on the child welfare system

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Dorothy Roberts describes her research on biomedicine

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Dorothy Roberts describes the myths about the biology of race

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Dorothy Roberts talks about the definition of race

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Dorothy Roberts talks about the perpetuation of racial inequality

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Dorothy Roberts talks about racial discrimination in the foster care system

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her position as the Kirkland and Ellis professor at Northwestern University School of Law

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Dorothy Roberts remembers her Fulbright Fellowship

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Dorothy Roberts recalls her research on gender with Rhoda Reddock

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Dorothy Roberts describes her time as the Bacon Kilkenny Distinguished Visiting Professor of Law at the Fordham University Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Dorothy Roberts describes her involvement with the film 'Silent Choices'

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Dorothy Roberts reflects upon her career

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Dorothy Roberts shares her advice to future generations

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Dorothy Roberts reflects upon her life

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Dorothy Roberts describes her hopes for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Dorothy Roberts reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Dorothy Roberts reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Dorothy Roberts reflects upon her family

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Dorothy Roberts shares a message to her children

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Dorothy Roberts reflects upon her faith

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Dorothy Roberts narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$5

DAStory

4$1

DATitle
Dorothy Roberts describes her early political activism
Dorothy Roberts talks about the definition of race
Transcript
Now did you and your family attend church?$$Yeah. Gro- there was a St. Paul's Episcopal Church [St. Paul and the Redeemer Episcopal Church, Chicago, Illinois] that we attended. You know, I don't remember though, I actually remember more so going to the civil rights meetings there then going to church services there. And I can't quite recall how they were related, but I do remember, even without my parents [Iris White Roberts and Robert Roberts], going to meetings at St. Paul's Episcopal Church.$$What year would've this--this been?$$This would've been in the '60s [1960s], in the later 1960s, yeah. But I remember meetings about, you know, getting reports about the Civil Rights Movement in the South. Also I remember going to meetings that had to do with the Blackstone Rangers [Black P. Stone Nation]. 'Cause the--the gang, the Blackstone Rangers was present in our neighborhood. I mean they--present in the sense that we heard about them and I remember sometimes they would leave, not a lot of graffiti, but some graffiti on trees on--on our block. And I--I recall there was an effort to try to make peace with the Blackstone Rangers. I--I remember attending a meeting with members of the Blackstone Rangers when I was in elementary school [Beulah Shoesmith Elementary School, Chicago, Illinois]. My--my parents didn't--weren't there, but I, you know, we were so independent (laughter) when I was growing up. I did a lot of things without my--a--a lot with my parents, you know, we had these family activities that had to do more with travel and culture and museums, and that kind of thing. And then there were these political activities I participated in that it was just easy to walk to from my house. And I--and I recall St. Paul's Episcopal Church being a center of that.$$Now you mentioned you got reports on the Blackstone Rangers--$$Yeah.$$--were those reports coming from the police department [Chicago Police Department] or were they?$$No this was more had to do with sort of some social justice work where the--the aim was to--all I can think is peacemaking kind of work. We--well, but also, you know, just growing up in the neighborhood you'd hear--well when you said, maybe police repo- you know, in the newspapers you would her what was going on in surrounding neighborhoods. I mean I--there wasn't--it wasn't as if there were members of the Blackstone Rangers on our block, but close by, you know, in the South Side of Chicago [Illinois].$$So you were becoming politically active at a very young age?$$Yeah, not that real politically active, but politicized and attending meetings. I didn't go on a bus to the south, you know, or anything like that, but I--I did feel at a young age that I wanted to be aware of what was going on politically. I can remember subscribing to the Blackstone Rang- not the, but the Black Panther Party newspaper in elementary school. I know this was before, when we were living in Hyde Park [Chicago, Illinois] before we moved to Egypt. So it was sometime in elementary school and I can remember my--it coming to the house and my mother telling me I had to cancel the subscription. Because, not because she disagreed with the politics, but because she felt it would bring our house under suspicion by the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation]. She was--my mother was very aware of--of ways that, you know, you could get in trouble (laughter) and she didn't want--didn't want us to get in trouble. So I had to cancel it with the, after the first issue came (laughter) to the house.$We were talking a little bit about biomedicine and how it's being used to define race to a certain extent. But you've kind of taken the position that it's really social and environmental issues that really talk about what race is, could you elaborate a little bit more on that?$$Well, I define race as a political category to govern people. I think there's a good historical record to show that it was invented as a political system to both morally justify slavery, but also to help govern these groups of people who are supposed to be masters and slaves or colonizers and the colonized. And race is a way of, of demarcating those people in those--with that political status. It's not a natural category, so who, who is black or who is white is not natural, it's who in this political system is considered superior or the master or the colonizer or who has certain political privileges and who is black is who is considered to be in the group that can be enslaved or colonized or denied certain political privileges. That's how you tell, (laughter) you know, who's in what race, whoever is defined to be in those categories. You can't determine it in any natural way. And so that's the meaning of race. It--it's not a biological category. It, it, it, you know, in identifying people it refers to biological traits, but the category, itself, isn't a biological category. And so then when there's certain biological consequences of belonging or being assigned to a particular race, those have to do with the impact of social status or social conditions on the body because you belong to that category. It's not natural, so the reason why blacks die earlier from all sorts of common diseases isn't because they're naturally prone to die of those diseases. It's because they suffer from the disadvantages of being categorized in a particular racial category. And you know, racism has huge consequences for people's lives and some of those consequences are biological consequences. So I think it's extremely dangerous to now look at those consequences of racism that has to do with belonging to a political category and the social and political implications of that, and now saying it's just natural. Because if it's natural, then you don't have to change society to address the consequences. If it's natural, either you say well that's just tough luck, you know, that--God made it that way, you know, which is what people said for a long time. Or, you say, well we can develop some biological remedy for it, which is what I think a large part of the answer being given us today. But that's extremely different from saying we have to change the social inequality that is based on race or that race supports. I think the inequality comes first and race is the way of supporting it. And it's, it's not a natural division that produces inequality. And I, I think that that is extremely important to understand that distinction and, and for our investments in science and social policy to be geared toward addressing the social inequalities that are supported by race.

The Honorable Freddie Pitcher

Former Judge Freddie Pitcher, Jr. was born on April 28, 1945, in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He graduated from McKinley High School in 1962 and earned his B.A. degree in political science from Southern University in 1966. He then received his J.D. degree from Southern University in 1973.

After completing his law degree, Pitcher established the law firm of Pitcher, Tyson Avery, and Cunningham. In 1983, he was elected city-wide as the first African American City Court Judge in the history of Baton Rouge. Four years later, in 1987, he ran a successful city-wide election for the 19th Judicial District. He was the first African American elected to this position. In 1992, he ran unopposed for the Louisiana First Circuit Court of Appeals. Pitcher authored close to 200 judicial opinions while serving on the Louisiana First Circuit Court of Appeals. He has taught as an adjunct professor of law at both Southern University and Louisiana State University. He became a partner in the international law firm of Phelps Dunbar in 1997. His practice focused on the areas of commercial, casualty and employment litigation, and he was also a member of the firm’s appellate practice group. Since 2003, Pitcher has been a full professor and Chancellor of Southern University Law Center in Baton Rouge. Pitcher has worked as a special counsel in the Office of the Attorney General for the State of Louisiana and as an assistant district attorney for East Baton Rouge Parish. He also held the position of associate justice ad hoc on the Louisiana Supreme Court.

Pitcher is a member of the Board of Directors of the Baton Rouge Area Foundation, Baton Rouge Recreation Commission Foundation, Woman’s Hospital Founders and Friends Endowment, Our Lady of the Lake College, Young Leaders Academy of Baton Rouge and Omega Psi Phi and Sigma Pi Phi fraternities. He is the recipient of numerous honors and awards including the G. Leon Netterville Award for Outstanding Achievement in Law from Southern University, the Distinguished Alumnus Award from both the Political Science Department and Law Center at Southern University, “Citizen of the Year” by Omega Psi Phi Fraternity (Lambda Alpha Chapter) and the Outstanding Achievement Award in the Legal Profession from the Louis A. Martinet Society.

Accession Number

A2008.058

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/24/2008

Last Name

Pitcher

Maker Category
Organizations
Schools

McKinley Senior High School

Southern University and Agricultural and Mechanical College

Valley Park Elementary School

Perkins Road Elementary School

Southern University Law Center

First Name

Freddie

Birth City, State, Country

Baton Rouge

HM ID

PIT01

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Louisiana

Favorite Vacation Destination

Orlando, Florida

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Louisiana

Interview Description
Birth Date

4/28/1945

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Baton Rouge

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Fish

Short Description

Law professor, state appellate court judge, and lawyer The Honorable Freddie Pitcher (1945 - ) was the first African American City Court Judge in the history of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He served on the Louisiana First Circuit Court of Appeals, authoring close to 200 judicial opinions. Pitcher was also chancellor of Southern University Law Center.

Employment

Tyson and Pitcher

Community Advancement Incorporated

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Freddie Pitcher's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher talks about his mother's siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his mother's education and career

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher talks about his paternal grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his father

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls his father's career at the Standard Oil Company

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his likeness to his mother

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers his father's alcoholism

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls visiting New Orleans, Louisiana

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his relation to Ralph Cato

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls the Valley Park community in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his cousin, Alex Pitcher, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his cousin, Alex Pitcher, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls his early education

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his early activities

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers McKinley Senior High School in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls his teachers at McKinley Senior High School

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his decision to attend Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls matriculating at Southern University

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers his summer program at Yale University

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his social life in college

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls the student sit-ins at Southern University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher describes his early interest in civil rights law

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers his U.S. Army service

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls being absent without leave from the U.S. Army

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher recalls his decision to attend law school

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers Southern University Law School in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher talks about civil law and common law, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher talks about civil law and common law, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers his first law practice

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$4

DAStory

5$8

DATitle
The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers Southern University Law School in Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The Honorable Freddie Pitcher remembers his first law practice
Transcript
Getting ready to enroll in law school that--for the fall and my wife [Harriet Pitcher] was pregnant, and, and I had to weigh whether or not I needed to work to deal with the pregnancy because we did not have any insurance at the time so I had to really make a call as to start school or work and, and take care of my obligations there, so I decided to go back to Community Advancement [Community Advancement, Inc.], work--said I was going to work for a year, we get through you know having a child and then I would start school the, the following year which and that's exactly what I did. I started school, law school [Southern University Law School; Southern University Law Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana] in 1970, and when I started school in 1970, I also started an employment agency, my own employment agency. Well, I along with two other guys, it's called Fields Associates Incorporated [ph.] and this was based upon my experiences having been a job developer that time that I worked at, at Community Advancement and some people you know suggested, oh you could take this and turn it into something commercial and make a lot of money and but anyhow that lasted about just the first semester for me because law school was kicking my butt and I couldn't possibly work and, and be the kind of student I wanted to be so I sold out my, my little interest that I had in the business to the other two guys to concentrate on being a full-time law student, and my wife was teaching at the time so I had to rely on her income and you know she--we had the child and so we were you know rocking and rolling along. And then I was elected president of the student bar my second year in law school, which normally is a (unclear), your third-year person, a senior always get elected and I beat a guy out who was a senior. I became student board president. I graduated number two in my class, passed the bar on the first try.$$Now who was number one in the class, do you remember?$$A guy named S.P. Davis [S.P. Davis, Sr.] and I was--yeah it was kind of competitive between the two of us and my, my last semester in school I kind of ratchet things back and really started more concentrating on, on the bar, (unclear) bar then I was and the courses I was taking so--$$So, so when did you pass the bar?$$In July of, I graduated in '73 [1973] in May of '73 [1973] and I took the July bar and passed the July bar, matter-of-fact I was the only one in my class to pass the bar on the first try.$Now what did you do after graduation [from Southern University Law School; Southern University Law Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana], did you try to get a job or with a firm or did you have to--did you join a firm or form one or go in (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) When I graduated I went to work for the attorney general's office [Office of the Attorney General], criminal division and, and I opened a small law practice on the side. I stayed with the--matter-of-fact I, I clerked my senior year at the attorney general's office as a law clerk and I along with Ralph Tyson [Ralph E. Tyson], who is now a federal court judge on the Middle District of Louisiana who--he and I became law partners, and just quickly on the side, Ralph and I met when I took a course down at LSU Law School [Louisiana State University Law School; Paul M. Hebert Law Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana], my--the summer of my--betwe- the summer between my, my junior and senior year, Ralph was the only African American attending LSU Law School at the time and I was--I use to call, he was the resident black, and I was the visiting black, and so and that's when the two of us first met. We subsequently ended up clerking at the attorney general's office, criminal division at the same time, and after we passed the bar we both continued to work there and I opened a small practice and then he eventually joined me at that practice and we eventually formed a, a law partnership.$$Okay now we have here that you all formed Pitcher, Tyson, Avery, and Cunningham, was that--$$Right, it was first Pitcher and Tyson, and then we subsequently had several other persons to, to join us. We had about seven lawyers in that office at, at one point. We started off in a little building on Plank Road [Baton Rouge, Louisiana], matter-of-fact I rented the buil- we rented one side of this building for fifty dollars a month, and my uncle, who's Emmanuel Pitcher was a, number one finish carpenter, he--got him to go in and panel the place and he, he carved two offices in there for us and a reception area and a small library in the back. My father [Freddie Pitcher, Sr.] gave me as a graduation present money to buy the first part of my law library and one very interesting thing that happened when I went to Claitor's Bookstore [Claitor's Law Books and Publishing Division, Baton Rouge, Louisiana] was a law book store to buy some law books. The lady behind the desk said, "Look, let me suggest that you buy this book." And she pulled out this red legal secretary's book and I became a little insulted you know I said, "I'm a lawyer." She said, "I know," said, "but you take this book it's gonna make you more money as a beginning lawyer than all this other stuff that you're buying will make," and it turned out to be true. Because (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) (Laughter) How so?$$Well because in there--I mean in law school we didn't have a course, which eventually they put in here, as law of- called Law Office Practice. I didn't know how to--nothing about notarizing stuff, I didn't know anything about you know I--transferring a car title, or, or doing real estate transactions whatsoever, and all of that was in that legal secretary's book.

Randolph Noel Stone

Distinguished professor of law Randolph Noel Stone was born on November 26, 1946 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The eldest of seven children, Stone’s parents greatly emphasized the importance of education. After graduating from high school, Stone went on to attend Lincoln University in Pennsylvania where he received an academic scholarship.

Stone was drafted by the United States Army in 1967 and served in Vietnam. After the war, Stone returned and continued his studies at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. In 1972, he graduated with his B.A. degree, and inspired by the legal profession’s icons, Thurgood Marshall and Charles Houston Hamilton, Stone attended the University of Wisconsin earning his J.D. degree in 1975. After graduation, Stone received a Reginald Heber Community Law Fellowship and worked with the Neighborhood Legal Services in Washington, D.C. He then worked as a staff attorney and office director for the Criminal Defense Consortium of Cook County and later as a Clinical Fellow for the University of Chicago Law School before starting his own private practice with Stone & Clark. At that time, Stone was appointed to represent one of the defendants in the “Pontiac Seventeen” Case, then the largest capital murder case in U.S. history. All the defendants were acquitted after a lengthy jury trial.

Stone later served as staff attorney and deputy director for the Public Defender Service of the District of Columbia and as an instructor at Harvard Law School before becoming the Public Defender of Cook County in Illinois in 1988. As the first African American Public Defender of Cook County, Stone was responsible for the management of a $30 million budget and the leadership of over 500 attorneys. In 1991, Stone was appointed as the director of the Mandel Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School where he created the Criminal and Juvenile Justice Project, providing law and social work students with the opportunity to engage in policy reform while defending children and young adults accused of criminal behavior. Stone continues to serve as a Clinical Professor of Law at the Law School. Stone was the first African American to Chair the American Bar Association’s Criminal Justice Section, an organization of over 9,000 criminal defense lawyers, prosecutors, judges, public defenders and other professionals concerned with criminal justice policy. He is a past president of the Illinois Board of Bar Admissions, a founding board member of First Defense Legal Aid (FDLA), the Neighborhood Defender Service of Harlem and former board member of both the Cook County and Chicago Bar Associations. He currently serves on the board of Treatment Alternatives for Safer Communities (TASC), the Sentencing Project, Inc. and on a variety of other advisory boards and committees. Stone has received a number of awards and writes and teaches about criminal and juvenile justice, race and crime, evidence, legal ethics and trial advocacy.

Stone lives in Chicago, Illinois, is married to Cheryl Bradley, has four children and continues to serve the general public through the profession of law.

Accession Number

A2008.011

Sex

Male

Interview Date

2/5/2008 |and| 2/8/2008

Last Name

Stone

Maker Category
Middle Name

Noel

Schools

Robert M. Lafollette School

Rufus King International High School

Lincoln University

University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

University of Wisconsin Law School

First Name

Randolph

Birth City, State, Country

Milwaukee

HM ID

STO06

Favorite Season

All Seasons

State

Wisconsin

Favorite Vacation Destination

Chicago, Illinois, Washington, D.C.

Favorite Quote

The Moral Arc Of The Universe Is Long, But It Bends Towards Justice.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Interview Description
Birth Date

11/26/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Lamb

Short Description

Law professor and public defender Randolph Noel Stone (1946 - ) was the first African American director of the Law Office of the Cook County Public Defender in Chicago, Illinois. Stone later served as the director of the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School, where he started the Criminal and Juvenile Justice Project.

Employment

Neighborhood Legal Services Program

Criminal Defense Consortium of Cook County

Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic

Stone and Clark

Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia

Law Office of Cook County Public Defender

Harvard Law School

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Randolph Noel Stone's interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his mother's childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about the U.S. military service of his maternal grandfather Jacob Hale

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his neighborhood in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers moving to an all-white neighborhood in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Randolph Noel Stone describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls the impact of white flight on his community

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his home life

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his parents' strict discipline

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his early educational experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls facing discrimination at the Robert M. LaFollette School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his extracurricular activities

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the racial demographics of his community

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls attending Rufus King High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the Civil Rights Movement in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. speech in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers segregation in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about his college aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his influences at Rufus King High School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his childhood personality

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his early interests

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers being arrested in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his friends from Rufus King High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his music lessons

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls attending Calvary Baptist Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his train ride to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his first impressions of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about his first impressions of Lincoln University in Pennsylvania

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers Professor Charles V. Hamilton

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his economics course at Lincoln University

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his social life at Lincoln University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the black fraternities at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls joining Lincoln University's choir

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his decision to leave Lincoln University

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about the Revolutionary Action Movement at Lincoln University

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls being drafted into the U.S. military

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his decision to go to Vietnam

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his first impressions of Vietnam

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his experiences during the Vietnam War

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers returning home to Milwaukee, Wisconsin from the Vietnam War

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls the political climate of Milwaukee, Wisconsin in 1969

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his psychological state after the Vietnam War

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his experience at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his role with the Black People's Topographical Research Center

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his influences at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about his first marriage

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls enrolling in the University of Wisconsin Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about his favorite class at University of Wisconsin Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his involvement with the Black American Law Students Association

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his mentors in law school

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his passion for public service

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his Reginald Heber Smith Community Law Fellowship

Tape: 5 Story: 13 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his early casework

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Slating of Randolph Noel Stone's interview, session 2

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone describes the Neighborhood Legal Services program

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his first court case

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about a eviction case

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls joining the Criminal Defense Consortium of Cook County in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his first murder case, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers his first murder case, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone describes how his experience in Vietnam War influenced how he practiced law

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls transferring to the Criminal Defense Consortium of Cook County's Woodlawn office in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his position with the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the Hot Dog Stand Murders case at the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the Hot Dog Stand Murders case at the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls the verdict of the Hot Dog Stand Murders case

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone reflects upon his clients' acquittal

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone describes the procedures of a clinical law firm

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about the social issues of the Hot Dog Stand Murders case

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls an armed robbery case at the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Randolph Noel Stone reflects upon his time as a clinical fellow at the University of Chicago Law School

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the Pontiac 17 case

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls the proceedings for the Pontiac 17 case

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone describes the details of the Pontiac 17 case

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the difficulties he faced during the Pontiac 17 case

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls a self-defense case, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls a self-defense case, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about the emotional toll of a murder case

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his position at the Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls a case at the Public Defender Office for the District of Columbia

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone describes a weapon possession case

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers the trial of a weapon possession case

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his decision to join the Law Office of the Cook County Public Defender in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his accomplishments at the Law Office of the Cook County Public Defender, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his accomplishments at the Law Office of the Cook County Public Defender, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his community involvement in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his caseload at the Law Office of the Cook County Public Defender

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Randolph Noel Stone remembers problems within the Cook County State's Attorney's Office

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls returning to the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Randolph Noel Stone describes the Criminal and Juvenile Justice Project

Tape: 9 Story: 11 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls a case for the Criminal and Juvenile Justice Project, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 12 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls a case for the Criminal and Juvenile Justice Project, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 13 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about his legal advocacy in South Africa

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Randolph Noel Stone recalls his experiences in South Africa

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his intensive trial practice workshop at the Edwin F. Mandel Legal Aid Clinic

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Randolph Noel Stone reflects upon his career

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Randolph Noel Stone reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Randolph Noel Stone talks about his family

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Randolph Noel Stone describes his future plans

DASession

1$2

DATape

4$8

DAStory

6$2

DATitle
Randolph Noel Stone remembers his decision to go to Vietnam
Randolph Noel Stone recalls the proceedings for the Pontiac 17 case
Transcript
So, we got the orders to go to Vietnam and--story--the funny story there was, we get the orders to go to Vietnam from Louisiana, but we're gonna get about a month off to go home for the holidays because this is December of '67 [1967], and we're supposed to report to Seattle [Washington] in January of '8 [1968], so we got three full weeks off. So, those of us who were coming back to the Midwest--there were about eight or nine of us, and we took a bus from Fort Polk, Louisiana, and we were gonna catch a plane out of Houston [Texas] and I think we went to maybe--some small town in Louisiana to wait for a transport to take us to Houston. So we're, we're dropped off; there're six or seven of us, all of us going to Chicago [Illinois] to catch flights to other places. And so we're standing on the ground, and we look up and there's a bar, you know, within walking distance--big sign, beer sign out in front. So somebody says, "Well, let's go and have a couple beers while we're waiting on our transport to the Houston airport." So we all walk in this bar, and we're all in our uniforms, fatigues, with our, you know, duffle bags and whatnot, and it's kind of like a country western bar, and there's a huge table--a round table--and we all sit around this table; there's six or seven of us, and it was just like right out of a Western movie, you know; we walk in, and everything gets quiet, you know; I mean you could almost hear a pin drop. And we sit around this, this table, and the waitress walks up and she says to one of the other guys--I'm the only black guy there; there's six or seven guys. She says to the white guy, she says, "We can't serve you guys." And the white guys look at her like, what, are you crazy, you know. "We just finished advanced infantry training, we're on our way to Vietnam; what do you mean you can't serve us?" And she says, "Well, as long as you--as long as he's here, we can't serve you." And so the white guys, you know, they all look at me like--they can't believe it, you know, 'cause they're from Chicago, the Midwest, or whatever. And so they wanna get violent and turn the place out and so, you know, I'm saying, "No, we're, we're not gonna do that," (laughter), "because I'll be the one who winds up going to jail, you know." So we walk out of the club--the bar--complete silence, and nobody says another word until the transport comes. So, we're on the plane or--the transport comes, takes us to Hou- to the Houston airport, we get on the plane; one of the--we're all going to Chicago, and then a couple of us are going to Milwaukee [Wisconsin] and, and other places. One of the white guys on the plane comes and sits with me in my seat on the airplane, and he says, "Look, I'm not going to Vietnam, I'm going to Canada and then I'm going to Paris [France]. If you wanna go, call this number." And he gives me this number to call, and then he goes back to his seat. So, when I get home to Milwaukee, you know, after decompressing for a couple days, I tell my parents, you know, what happened in this bar, and I tell 'em about this number that I have to call, and I give it to my parents and, you know--so we--I remember sitting at the kitchen table, and my father [Raymond Stone, Sr.], he has worked himself up into such an emotion that he's almost, he wants to cry, you know. And my mother [Lee Terrell Stone], she's just in a complete consternation; she doesn't know what--so I said, "Well, here's the thing, you know; I can go to Canada and maybe France, or I can go to Vietnam. What should I do?" You know. And, you know, it was just so difficult for them to discuss it, you know; they were just like dumbfounded. And they never did tell me what they thought I should do, you know; they kind of talked about the pros and the cons and, you know, "You may not make it to Canada, you might not make it to France, you could get locked up. If you go to Vietnam you could get killed or maimed or hurt." It's a, you know, tough decision. And--well, ultimately I dec- I--you know, I went to Vietnam, but it was--I still think about that a lot.$What happened with the--this, this Pontiac [Pontiac 17] case?$$The Pontiac case--well, the Pontiac case was a nightmare of--an, an administrative nightmare. Seventeen defendants, each defendant had one or two lawyers appointed, so just--you know, as you can imagine, trying to manage that schedule was just an administrative nightmare, and the judge who was appointed was a judge from downstate, Ben Miller [Benjamin K. Miller], and he had worked out some kind of schedule for payment; we were supposed to be getting paid every couple weeks and we'd submit our vouchers for payment. And then they appointed three prosecutors, special prosecutors, to try the case. Well, sometime during the, the pretrial proceedings, we discovered that the prosecutors were being paid a lot more than the defense lawyers. The prosecutors were all white, most of the defense lawyers were African American, which was another unique thing about this case, in that there were so many African American lawyers involved, you know--Skip Gant, Roosevelt Thomas, Lou Myers [ph.], Chokwe Lumumba from Detroit [Michigan]; he came in, tried--was part of the case--Stan Hill [Stanley L. Hill]--and I'm leaving out a lot of people, but there were a lot of very good--Leo Holt [HistoryMaker Leo Ellwood Holt] was the--probably the dean, and I think he's one of your HistoryMakers. Marianne Jackson, who's now a judge in juvenile court, was one of the trial lawyers on the case; Jeff Haas [ph.], Flint Taylor [G. Flint Taylor] from the People's Law Office [Chicago, Illinois], they were involved in the case. David Thomas, Paul Brayman--just a, a, a, a really good group of trial lawyers--Marc Kadish, and many of them African American. So, thousands of motions were filed, pretrial proceedings lasted about a year, jury selection took about three or four months of jury selection; it was a very painstaking, onerous process. And I'm in private practice at the time, so I'm trying to balance my practice with this Pontiac case, which was extremely difficult, and--but anyway--so we picked a jury, three or four months of jury selection, and then the trial lasted another two, two and a half months. And, and then, just before the trial started, the judge divided the case into the ten--ten and seven; one group of ten, one group of seven, and then he decided that he would go to try the ten first, hence the Pontiac 10. One of the seven defendants decided to turn state's evidence and testify against the ten, which created all kinds of havoc and--but--so two and a half months at trial, and then closing arguments took three or four days, and jury goes out on Mother's Day, I think, or the day before Mother's Day in 1981, and they're out like three or four hours, and they come back and they find everybody not guilty, and it was just a pandemonium, you know; I mean sheer ecstasy for us, but--and for the--you know, the clients, obviously. And my client (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Who was your client?$$My client was Albert Jackson, who was serving time on another--every--well, obviously, everybody in, in the case was serving time on another case, that's why they were in prison [Pontiac Correctional Center, Pontiac, Illinois]. But ultimately, I got him out on his other case and we--we're still in very close touch. We, I talk to him at least once a month, or twice a month.

The Honorable Charles Z. Smith

Retired Justice of the Washington Supreme Court and prosecutor for the United States Department of Justice, Charles Zellender Smith was born on February 23, 1927, in Lakeland, Florida. Son of John R. Smith, Sr., a Cuban immigrant, and Eva Love Smith, he attended school in Franklin, North Carolina at age three, Washington Park School in Lakeland and Hungerford School in Maitland, Florida. Mentored by Dr. William H. Gray, Jr., President of Florida A&M College, he served as Gray’s administrative assistant. From 1945 to 1946, Smith served in the United States Army as a court reporter. He later joined the Gray family in Philadelphia attending Temple University, where he earned his B.S. degree in 1952. Smith then moved to Seattle, Washington, where he entered the University of Washington Law School. He was one of four minority students in a class of 120. He was the only African American or person of color in the graduating class. While in law school, Smith met Hawaii-born Eleanor Martinez, whom he married in 1955.

After graduating from law school, Smith served as a law clerk for Supreme Court Justice Matthew W. Hill. From 1956 to 1960, he served as a Deputy Prosecuting Attorney for King County. In 1961, Smith was recruited by U.S. Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy to join his staff. Smith’s assistance was sought by the Attorney General in investigating mismanagement of the Central States Teamsters Pension Fund. He led a team conducting grand juries around the country, culminating in indictment and successful prosecution of James R. Hoffa and five business men for mail fraud and wire fraud in the Northern District of Illinois in 1964.

In 1965, Smith returned to Seattle where he became the first African American or person of color to become a judge in the State of Washington, being appointed as Judge of the Seattle Municipal Court. In 1966, again as a “first,” he was appointed to the King County Superior Court and subsequently reelected unopposed until he left the court in 1973. Also, in 1973, Smith was appointed Professor of Law and Associate Dean at the University of Washington Law School where he served until his retirement in 1986. Later in 1973 Smith was commissioned in the United States Marine Corps Reserve where he served in the Judge Advocate Division as a military judge until his retirement as a Lieutenant Colonel in 1986.

Smith served as President of the American Baptist Churches, USA in 1976 and 1977 and participated with the National Inter-religious Task Force on Soviet Jewry. He served as a delegate to Task Force follow-up conferences in Rome, Italy, Belgrade, Yugoslavia and Madrid, Spain.

On July 18, 1988, Smith became the first African American or person of color to serve on the Washington Supreme Court. He served three terms retiring in 2002. In 1999, he was appointed by President William J. Clinton to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, created by Congress to monitor the status of freedom of thought, conscience and belief abroad. In 2001, the Student Bar Association at the University of Washington Law School established the Charles Z. Smith Public Service Scholarship. He received the Distinguished Service Award from the National Center for State Courts in 2004 and was honored by Pioneer Human Services in Seattle with naming of one of its low cost housing properties as the Chares Z. Smith House.

Smith lived in Seattle, Washington with his wife, Eleanor Martinez. The couple had four adult children and six grandchildren.

Accession Number

A2007.308

Sex

Male

Interview Date

6/3/2008 |and| 6/4/2008 |and| 10/27/2007

Last Name

Smith

Middle Name

Z.

Schools

Washington Park School

Robert Hungerford Industrial School

Temple University

Florida Memorial University

Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University

Washington University School of Law

National Judicial College

Naval Justice School

First Name

Charles

Birth City, State, Country

Lakeland

HM ID

SMI21

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Florida

Favorite Vacation Destination

Hawaii

Favorite Quote

Truth, Justice And Freedom.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Washington

Interview Description
Birth Date

2/23/1927

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Seattle

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Chocolate

Death Date

8/28/2016

Short Description

Federal government appointee, law professor, and state supreme court judge The Honorable Charles Z. Smith (1927 - 2016 ) was the first African American to serve on the State of Washington's Supreme Court. In addition to holding this Washington Supreme Court position from 1988 until his retirement in 2002, Justice Smith was also known for serving on the staff of U.S. Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, and being appointed to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom by President William J. Clinton.

Employment

Municipal Court of Seattle

Washington Supreme Court

U.S. Army

King County Prosecuting Attorney's Office

U.S. Department of Justice

King County Superior Court

University of Washington School of Law

U.S. Marine Corps

Favorite Color

Orange

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Charles Z. Smith's interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the race relations in Franklin, North Carolina

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his mother's formal education

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his mother's move to Lakeland, Florida

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the origin of his father's name

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls how his parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his father's education

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his early education

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his early musical interests

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his sisters' radio show on WLAK Radio in Lakeland, Florida

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls attending Robert Hungerford Normal and Industrial School in Eatonville, Florida

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers meeting William H. Gray, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his decision to study law

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his academic accomplishments

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers enlisting in the U.S. Army

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his experiences in the U.S. Army

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his discharge from the U.S. Army

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about why he moved to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his study of group dynamics at Temple University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers applying for law school

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his admittance to the University of Washington School of Law

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his experiences in Olympia, Washington

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls meeting his wife, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls meeting his wife, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his position as a deputy prosecuting attorney in King County, Washington

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about Washington's criminal justice system

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers prosecuting drug related cases

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his experiences with racial discrimination

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls being recruited by Robert F. Kennedy

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about Dave Beck and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the feud between Robert F. Kennedy and Jimmy Hoffa

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the reasoning behind Jimmy Hoffa's pardon

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls the Jimmy Hoffa case he tried in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the tensions between J. Edgar Hoover and Robert F. Kennedy

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers J. Edgar Hoover

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his appointment to the Municipal Court of Seattle

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his role in decriminalizing public intoxication, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his role in decriminalizing public intoxication, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his appointment to the King County Superior Court

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers a murder case he presided over in the King County Superior Court, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers a murder case he presided over in the King County Superior Court, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the sentencing criteria in the State of Washington

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his cases while serving on the King County Superior Court

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about Seattle's discriminatory housing practices, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about Seattle's discriminatory housing practices, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his further judicial studies and education

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his judicial appointment in the U.S. Marine Corps

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers one of his U.S. Marine Corps cases

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the differences between civilian and military courts

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his teaching schedule at the University of Washington School of Law

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the University District Defender Services clinical program

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his work as a commentator on KOMO Radio and KOMO-TV

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his television segments on KOMO-TV in Seattle, Washington

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his work on the Juvenile Justice Standards Commission

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the enforcement of constitutional rights for juveniles

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the juvenile courts in the State of Washington

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls one of his juvenile court cases

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith shares his stance on incarceration

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about Gary Ridgway's trial

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers one of his King County Superior Court cases

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the American Baptist Churches USA

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the memberships of Baptist churches in Seattle, Washington

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes the National Interreligious Task Force on Soviet Jewry

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his involvement with various Washington task forces

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers his appointment to the Washington Supreme Court

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his tenure on the Washington Supreme Court

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his experiences with discrimination in the Washington Supreme Court, pt. 1

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his experiences with discrimination in the Washington Supreme Court, pt. 2

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his colleagues at the Washington Supreme Court

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith remembers the executive committee of the Washington Supreme Court

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith reflects upon his status in the Washington Supreme Court

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the civil rights leaders in Seattle, Washington

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls the World Trade Organization Ministerial Conference protests

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith reflects upon his judicial career

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about the importance of community programs

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith talks about his family

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

2$2

DATape

8$10

DAStory

8$6

DATitle
The Honorable Charles Z. Smith describes his work on the Juvenile Justice Standards Commission
The Honorable Charles Z. Smith recalls his tenure on the Washington Supreme Court
Transcript
Seventy-three [1973], you also served as co-chairperson of the Juvenile Justice Standards commission [IJA/ABA Joint Commission on Juvenile Justice Standards]. Now, that's, that sounds very important and, with the juvenile court over a hundred--we were talking about it before we started--$$Yeah.$$--doing this interview.$$Well, my background had included service in the juvenile court. When I was on the King County Superior Court, I was assigned on rotation to the juvenile court. So I had a background in juvenile courts. The American Bar Association and the Institute of Judicial Administration [New York, New York] had foundation grants to conduct an extensive study on juvenile practices. And I was initially a member of the commission, and through a transition of changes, I became co-chairperson of the, of the commission in the last five years of its existence. But we conducted studies. We hired researchers to do studies, but we had meetings of lawyers--the commission consisted of lawyers, judges, psychiatrists, social workers. And we would have a meeting somewhere around the country every three months. And all of this was, you know, developed and cataloged, and over a period of about--that started in '73 [1973]. Nineteen seventy-eight [1978] we published thirty-seven volumes of books on juvenile court practices. It was initially published by Ballinger Publishing [Ballinger Publishing Company] in Boston [Massachusetts]. And it was circulated throughout the country. And the Ballinger company was going to destroy the printing plates and the American Bar Association purchased the printing plates. So back in those days, we had printing plates. So it has been republishing, and since 1978, there is a current version of those juvenile justice standards, thirty-seven volumes. I, I pulled off the shelf a copy of it to give you some idea of what the volumes were like. But it's not necessary for this particular interview, but after it, I'll show you what it amounted to. But they sort of set the tone for creating a new approach to the treatment of juveniles and particularly, after a case called In re Gault [In re Gault, 1967], G-A-U-L-T where the United States Court of Appeals in the District of Columbia [U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit] had a ruling that indicated that juveniles are entitled to constitutional rights. And up until that time, juveniles were not entitled to constitutional rights. And in the Gault case, very simply, Gerald Gault was charged with disorderly conduct for making an obscene telephone call to a neighbor woman. He was charged with a felony in Arizona. He went before the judge, and the judge says, you don't need to deny it. I know you did it. You're guilty and sentenced him to detention in the juvenile system until he reached the age of twenty-one years. And Gerald Gault then was sixteen years old. That case was appealed by a volunteer lawyer who took it all the way to the United States Supreme Court, and they ended up saying that juveniles had a constitutional right. And that changed the tone of juvenile courts throughout the country. And so the Juvenile Justice Standards commission was sort of using the Gault case as a platform for saying we have to do things differently now than we have been doing it in the past. And so that's what the Juvenile Justice Standards commission was, and we completed our work in 1978, published our materials and the commission itself went out of existence.$So what were the highlights of your term on the supreme court of the State of Washington [Washington Supreme Court]? And I don't know if that's the best way to ask it, but what happened there? What were the significant events, I guess, for you?$$Well, the--it's, again, an interesting thing. I was on the court for fourteen years, and I wrote 350 opinions. And the most--and I cannot remember any particular one. You know, if someone called one to my attention, I would remember, but the collegiality on the court, we have nine justices on the supreme court, and you either get along with them or you don't get along with them because everything is done by group. All opinions are based upon the consensus of the group, so that even though I might write an opinion, and I recommend it to the others, they have to vote on it. And if I write an opinion and we take a vote on it, if I get five votes, then that becomes the court's opinion. But if I don't get five votes, it shifts. And it's not my opinion anymore. But the--it's sort of like, I guess, a fencing game. It's parry right, parry left, and you touche and you (laughter), you win your point by scoring. And with a supreme court such as ours and most supreme courts operate in the same way, it's a matter of intellectually convincing your colleagues of a position that you take on a particular case. Our cases are preassigned. And so at the beginning of a term, I knew, which cases were assigned to me, but they weren't assigned to me because of background. They're randomly assigned. Someone in the clerk's office pulls a, literally pulls a name out of a hat and says, this goes to Smith [HistoryMaker Charles Z. Smith], this goes to this person, this goes to that person, so that at the beginning of a term, I would get my assigned cases. So I had two judicial clerks, law clerks who worked with me doing the research, reading everything relating to the case, the briefs and other documents and things like that. Then I would prepare a presentence report, which was distributed to the other judges prior to the hearing. And then we would have the hearing where the lawyers would appear. And then we would go into recess to consider a case based upon the prehearing memorandum, prepared by the judge responsible for the case and the arguments presented by counsel. And then a recommendation is made for a result, and then the vote is taken. The chief justice presides over those meetings. So that's the way it would go. I found that, that experience was a good experience. I had some non-good experiences on the supreme court, but it had nothing to do with the routine process. And I have threatened to write a book called 'The Dark Side of the Temple,' and the Temple of Justice [Olympia, Washington] is where our supreme court is located. And the word dark has many meanings. I'm not white. Therefore, I am dark. As the junior justice on the court, I was assigned the worst courtroom, worst chambers in the building, next to the helicopter pad, and little things would happen. And then there was a cabal, C-A-B-A-L, against me from five of the nine justices, the chief justice and four of the others on a committee that ostensibly was based on seniority. And I had seniority over two of the people (laughter) in the group. But they were making decisions that affected me, and, and I chose not to make an issue of it while I was on the court and decided after I retired I would write a book. But I haven't had the time, energy nor inclination to begin writing the book yet. But when I write the book, I will tell of the negative experiences I had on the court. But--and they had nothing to do with race, which is very interesting. And I think it had to do with, one, my credentials, and two, my arrogance. I, I never took a second seat to anyone from an intellectual standpoint, and nobody on the court had my credentials. The highest ranking [U.S.] military person on our court was a first lieutenant in the Second World War [World War II, WWII]. And none of them had been law professors, and I was a full tenured law professor (laughter). And so I came to the court with a lot of credentials. My international activities, all those other things were unique in the sense that compared to other members on the court, who were provincial. And so these things created an atmosphere of resentment against me.

The Honorable Jock Smith

Attorney, law professor, municipal court judge, and trial lawyer Jock Michael Smith was born on June 10, 1948, in New York City to Betty Lou Nance Bowers and Jacob Smith. Despite the untimely death of his father in 1956, Smith still excelled academically, receiving his B.S. degree from Tuskegee University in 1970 and his J.D. degree from the University of Notre Dame’s Law School on May 20, 1973.

After receiving his law degree, Smith then became a legal advisor to the NAACP’s Civil Rights Project in Broome County, New York. A year later, Smith moved to Alabama, and in 1977, he became the assistant attorney general for Montgomery, Alabama. That same year, Smith opened his own law firm in Tuskegee, Alabama where he represented plaintiffs and defendants in both criminal and civil suits until 1998. In 1987, Smith became a city municipal judge in Camp Hill, Alabama, and spent two years on the bench. In 1990, he became County Attorney in Macon County, Alabama. He represented the county in all legal matters for fifteen years. In 1993, Smith worked as an administrative law judge for Alabama’s Department of Environmental Management. The following year, he founded Scoring For Life, Inc., a non-profit organization that encourages teens, children and adults with motivational messages. In 1997, Smith became a principal stockholder and sports agent for Cochran Sports Management while working alongside Johnnie L. Cochran Jr. A year later, Smith joined Cochran at the firm of Cochran, Cherry, Givens & Smith, P.C. in Tuskegee, Alabama as a senior partner. In 1999, he also became a play-by-play announcer for Tuskegee University's Tiger Football and the Tuskegee Community Network. In addition to his legal career, Smith also taught at State University of New York at Binghamton and Tuskegee Institute.

Smith has received numerous awards, including honorary doctorates of Divinity Degrees from the Pentecostal Bible College, Tuskegee, Alabama and the Montgomery Bible Institute and Theological Center, Montgomery, Alabama, and keys to the cities of New Orleans, Louisiana, Memphis, Tennessee and Flint, Michigan. He has been recognized by the Alabama Trial Lawyers Association for tireless dedication and unwavering commitment, inducted into the Million Dollar Advocates Forum and received the Inaugural Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Journey to Justice Award in 2005 at the National Bar Association Convention. "The Martindale-Hubbell" legal publication has given Smith its highest rating, the AV Rating, and "Lawdragon" Legal Magazine in Los Angeles, California selected him as one of America’s Top 500 Trial Litigators in 2006 and 2007. Smith was inducted onto the President’s Advisory Council of the National Wildlife Federation (NWF), making him the first African American to serve on that board. In 2002, he published his autobiography entitled, "Climbing Jacob’s ladder: a Trial Lawyer’s Journey in Behalf of the ‘Least of These’."

Jock Smith passed away on January 8, 2012.

Jock Smith was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on September 5, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.245

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/5/2007

Last Name

Smith

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Michael

Schools

Andrew Jackson High School

P.S. 15 Jackie Robinson School

I.S. 59 Springfield Gardens

Tuskegee University

Norte Dame Law School

First Name

Jock

Birth City, State, Country

New York

HM ID

SMI20

Favorite Season

Summer

Sponsor

Sylvia Dale Cochran

State

New York

Favorite Vacation Destination

New York, New York, Las Vegas

Favorite Quote

Civility Is Never A Sign Of Weakness And Sincerity Is Always Subject To Scrutiny.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Alabama

Birth Date

6/10/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Tuskegee

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Crab Legs

Death Date

1/8/2012

Short Description

Law professor, attorney, and municipal court judge The Honorable Jock Smith (1948 - 2012 ) was senior partner at Cochran, Cherry, Givens & Smith, P.C. in Tuskegee, Alabama. He was a former judge for the State of Alabama and wrote his autobiography entitled "Climbing Jacob’s Ladder: a Trial Lawyer’s Journey in Behalf of the ‘Least of These’."

Employment

United States Customs Court

Police Youth Involvement Program

Urban League of South Bend and St. Joseph County

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) Civil Rights Project

State University of New York at Binghamton

Tuskegee University

State of Alabama

Camphill Communities of North America

Law offices of Jock M. Smith

Alabama Department of Environmental Management

Macon County

Scoring for Life, Inc.

National Law firm of Cochran, Cherry, Givens & Smith, P.C.

Tuskegee Community Network

Cochran Sports Management

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Green

Timing Pairs
0,0:9060,221:29278,432:29674,440:30466,514:30862,519:32050,589:40980,613:56635,759:62901,921:78225,1120:78750,1129:85159,1215:88477,1278:88951,1285:104362,1580:106918,1648:109468,1676:116171,1757:116487,1765:116882,1771:120164,1820:122252,1864:146816,2148:147264,2156:152168,2269:153286,2294:157035,2337:166372,2505:175176,2573:184951,2686:189828,2758:191600,2806:193763,2903:202024,2951:209560,3002:210144,3117:214524,3195:215254,3216:215692,3223:217663,3310:220656,3412:222335,3451:223722,3494:227210,3510$0,0:1919,33:3939,69:17345,229:36279,661:39898,722:43132,809:56730,1000:57255,1009:57855,1019:58155,1024:59055,1106:59355,1111:65122,1177:65542,1183:69154,1284:72934,1359:74194,1376:83848,1517:87785,1568:88975,1583:89315,1588:99988,1749:102420,1798:109488,1993:113717,2071:114879,2119:118610,2175:119170,2196:121760,2275:122600,2322:125610,2472:146556,2791:146892,2819:150756,2886:154452,2966:179872,3206:181630,3432:185634,3563:186019,3569:207480,3805:212898,3861:213758,4147:219262,4256:232990,4428:243852,4490:264920,4719
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable Jock Smith's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his maternal grandmother

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his relationship with his father

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his father's death

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes lessons from his father

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his mother's personality and his likeness to her

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his paternal grandmother

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about his paternal uncles

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his father's U.S. military service

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith explains the origin of his name

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes how his parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his father as a young man

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his father's life in New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his neighbors on Nashville Boulevard in Queens, New York

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers P.S. 15 in Queens, New York

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his childhood activities

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes the demographics of his schools in Queens, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers J.H.S. 59, Springfield Gardens School in Queens, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his experiences at Andrew Jackson High School in Queens, New York

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his decision to attend the Tuskegee Institute in Tuskegee, Alabama

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his experiences at the Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes what he learned at Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his classmates at the Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about Tuskegee Institute President Luther Foster, Jr.

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his medical exemption from the draft

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his academic success at the Tuskegee Institute in Tuskegee, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his extracurricular activities at the Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers Gwendolyn Patton

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his decision to attend law school

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls how he paid for his undergraduate tuition

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers working for Judge James Watson

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his experiences of discrimination at the University of Notre Dame Law School in South Bend, Indiana

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his graduation from the University of Notre Dame Law School

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about his experiences of racism

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls working for the Urban League of South Bend and St. Joseph County

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls working for the NAACP in Binghamton, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers teaching law at the Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 4 Story: 13 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls joining the State of Alabama Office of the Attorney General

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his judgeships

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers the case of the State of Alabama v. Donell Williams

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his historic victory in an insurance fraud case, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his historic victory in an insurance fraud case, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls protecting a client from wrongful eviction

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about his motivation as a lawyer

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers his recommitment to Christianity

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers joining the Christian Life Church in Montgomery, Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers meeting Johnnie Cochran

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers meeting Keith Givens and Sam Cherry

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers establishing the law firm of Cochran, Cherry, Givens and Smith

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith recalls the case of Tolbert v. Monsanto Company

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers Johnnie Cochran

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers Robert Jeter et al. v. Orkin Exterminating Company, Inc., pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers Robert Jeter et al. v. Orkin Exterminating Company, Inc., pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers representing Carolyn Whittaker

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith reflects upon his awards and influences

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about the law firm of Cochran, Cherry, Givens and Smith

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - The Honorable Jock Smith remembers meeting his second wife

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his wife, Yvette Smiley-Smith

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his daughter, Janay Smith

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about Cochran Sports Management, LLC

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about his collection of historical artifacts

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about the significance of sports history

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - The Honorable Jock Smith talks about writing his autobiography

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - The Honorable Jock Smith describes his concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - The Honorable Jock Smith reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - The Honorable Jock Smith shares a message to future generations

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - The Honorable Jock Smith narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

4$2

DATitle
The Honorable Jock Smith recalls his historic victory in an insurance fraud case, pt. 2
The Honorable Jock Smith remembers establishing the law firm of Cochran, Cherry, Givens and Smith
Transcript
And the thing is in closing argument to the jury I remember telling the jury this, "You know normally ladies and gentlemen look at all these lawyers they have over there against me and my client and I would be dwarfed by their presence," I said, "but I'm a Bible toting Christian and I brought my sling shot to court with me, ladies and gentlemen. You know my Bible tells me ladies and gentlemen that Jesus spoke in John 10:10 and told us that the thief would come in the night to kill, steal, and destroy, but I have come to give you life and to give you joy abundantly. That must mean that there, that, that, that somewhere there's a robber and a thief somewhere in this courtroom ladies and gentlemen and there they sit." The jury returned a verdict in twenty minutes of $5 million. It was the largest verdict, one of the largest verdicts in the history of the state at the time and the largest verdict an African American lawyer had ever gotten in Alabama. And I rode that verdict for many years. I also remember telling the jury, "Ladies and gentlemen Miller Ephraim has died, but fortunately we were able to read his deposition to you. You know when Knute Rockne went to see George Gipp one day in his hospital room and he was dying, he told him, 'One day when you really need to win a game tell him to win one for me.' Notre Dame [Notre Dame Fighting Irish] was playing in a national championship game against Army [Army West Point Black Knights] and they were behind twelve to nothing at halftime as the story is told. Knute Rockne went into that locker room and told the Fighting Irish what he had to tell them about the story of George Gipp that day and he said, 'Win one for the Gipper.' Ladies and gentlemen, Miller Ephraim is looking down on these proceedings today. He sits with Jesus along the right hand of the Father and expects you to bring him good news based on your verdict; win one for the Miller now." And the jury did. And I sat there for about five or ten minutes after the court was over. A gentleman who was an elected official came to me and said, "Jock [HistoryMaker Jock Smith] do you realize you won the biggest case a black lawyer has ever won in Alabama, but you're sitting there, you haven't moved since the verdict. You should be jumping up and down and be excited." I saw my whole life flash in front of me. I saw my father's [Jacob Smith] death. I heard the edict, "You'll be a good garbage worker." I remember, "You have a gift to speak." All this stuff flashed in front of me and I thanked the Lord for blessing me that day on December 15th, 1988, about four o'clock in the afternoon when the jury not only said $5 million, but said something more important: well done my good and faithful servant. That was the day I knew I had beaten everything that Mr. Stein [ph.] had told my mother [Betty Lou Bowers Nance]. There was no doubt in my mind that was it when the jury, when that foreman of that jury stood up and said $5 million I knew then that I had accomplished something significant. And those were the two cases I most remember before my partnership with Johnnie Cochran. There were some others that I won and settled and made money and it was not making money, it's more to life than that I could tell you about, but it's not gonna tell you about that 'cause that's really not what HistoryMakers [The HistoryMakers] is really about. It's not about money in your pocket, it's about people that you've helped. I've given you some indication.$We started in Columbus, Georgia, because there was a gentleman there named Joe Wiley [Joseph Wiley] that had a preacher, a black preacher who, who was recommending to Givens [Keith Givens]. Though that office only stayed open a year, it didn't live out the true creed of its meaning as the Declaration of Independence says. It still became a cornerstone of the beginnings of Cochran, Cherry, Givens, Smith [Cochran, Cherry, Givens and Smith; The Cochran Firm]. We then merged my Tuskegee [Alabama] office, the Dothan [Alabama] office of Cherry and Givens and the Los Angeles [California] office of Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. [Johnnie Cochran]. His three other offices in the firm probably six months after the origins of July of '98 [1998], so by January of '99 [1999] we were probably sitting with, we were sitting with four offices, Columbus, Georgia; Tuskegee, Alabama; Dothan Alabama; Los Angeles, California. Johnnie had continued his relationship with Peter Neufeld and Barry Scheck, the DNA experts, after the O.J. trial [People of the State of California v. Orenthal James Simpson, 1995] and had some kind of arrangement with them in New York [New York]. Six months later after the, so this would have been about a year later, after July of '98 [1998], Johnnie turned over that office to us, so then we had New York as well. He began to trust us, began to entrust more to us based on our earned respect and comradeship together. Cherry [Sam Cherry] and Givens are two white men, so I was the only black, only African American partner in this venture. We began to speak with people in larger cities that we had identified. We kind of redlined the United States, in so called Cochran friendly cities. We had, and the list probably had fifteen, twenty cities on there. We categorized them by priority. Near the top of the list was Atlanta [Georgia]. Chicago [Illinois] was near the top of the list. The District of Columbia [Washington, D.C.] was near the top, and there were some others, I think Memphis [Tennessee] and New Orleans [Louisiana] may have been near the top, Philadelphia [Pennsylvania], some others. And what we began to do was go into these cities and interview these perspective lawyers that we identified based on references that would be good for us and for our operations, to run our operations in these cities. These are lawyers who already had existing firms that were already successful. We didn't take any neophytes on; we took existing lawyers. In, in Atlanta, we selected this Hezekiah Sistrunk [Hezekiah Sistrunk, Jr.] who you know, and in Chicago we selected Jim Montgomery [HistoryMaker James D. Montgomery] who you also know. So, other cities we selected other people. We began to put these offices together. Now I was one of the people that would go and interview these people and I would help make the selections. Like if it got down to a taffy pool I'd go in and say, "You know Johnnie I think we need to go with Jim Montgomery in Chicago. We, we don't, don't need to go with Corboy and Demetrio." Somebody try to say "Ca- ." I said, "No, no, no, no this is an African American firm, no we need to go with Jim Montgomery," and I had to fight for that. I had to fight some of my partners--I won't name them, but I had to fight them 'cause of Jim's age is another thing. They said, "He's too old." "No, no, no, no, no, no this man will be good." Turned out to be right. Same thing in Atlanta, Hezekiah Sistrunk was my choice there. There was another man who was being considered. I said, "No, no we don't need that man. His personal conduct is very questionable. I've seen some things. We don't want this in the firm. Hezekiah Sistrunk." So, we put, we handpicked these people and, and we made some mistakes like any other firm, but we made a lot better choices than we made poor choices and that has sustained the firm and the firm grew to seventeen offices before Johnnie's death. We had opened in New Orleans and St. Louis [Missouri] were the last two offices we opened before Johnnie expired this earth with the Lord--went on to be with the Lord. We had opened D.C. We'd opened Memphis. We'd opened Las Vegas [Nevada]. We, of course as I mentioned already Chicago, Atlanta, and there were others. Los Angeles and New York were already up and running, so we had most of the major cities. We still didn't have Philadelphia. In fact, I would say the only major cities we didn't have at Johnnie's death probably, that I call major African American cities would be probably Philadelphia and Chica- not Chicago, Detroit [Michigan]. We've since opened up in those cities, but we had not at the time of Johnnie's--at the time Johnnie was living.

Samuel C. Thompson, Jr.

Tax lawyer Samuel Coleman Thompson, Jr. was born on October 25, 1943 in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Thompson and his family can trace their lineage to the 1600s. After Thompson and his family moved to the industrial town of Steelton, Pennsylvania in 1948, he graduated from Steelton High School in 1961. Thompson then received his B.S. degree from West Chester University in Pennsylvania and his M.A. degree from the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton School and Graduate School of Economics in 1969.

Between Thompson’s first and second years of law school at the University of Pennsylvania, he was drafted into the Vietnam War, where he served for three years. During Thompson’s tenure, he rose to the rank of Captain, serving as Commanding Officer of Headquarters Company and received the Navy Commendation Medal. After returning to the United States, Thompson received his J.D. degree from the University of Pennsylvania Law School and began working as a legal writing instructor.

Between 1971 and 1972, Thompson worked briefly for Davis Polk & Wardwell in New York. Shortly thereafter, he earned his L.L.M. degree in taxation from New York University while working as an assistant and associate professor of law at Northwestern University. In 1976, Thompson published his first book, Pension Reform: How to Comply with ERISA, and served as an attorney advisor in the Office of Tax Legislative Counsel and International Tax Counsel for the U.S. Treasury Department.

In 1977, Thompson joined the faculty at the University of Virginia School of Law until 1981. He then served as the partner-in-charge of the tax department at the law firm of Schiff Hardin & Waite in Chicago, Illinois until 1990, when he joined the UCLA Law School faculty. There, Thompson taught courses on mergers and acquisitions and corporate taxation.

In 1994, Thompson left UCLA’s Law School to become the Dean of the University of Miami School of Law. During his tenure, Thompson created the Center for the Study of Mergers and Acquisitions and transferred it to the UCLA School of Law when he moved back to California in 2003. There, Thompson established the school’s first two endowed chairs, the Center for Ethics & Public Service and the Children and Youth Law Clinic.

Thompson published numerous books throughout his professional career including Federal Income Taxation of Domestic and Foreign Business Transactions, An Examination of the Effect of Recent Legislation on Commodity Tax Straddles and Investment Tax Credit: Alternative to the President’s Flawed Dividend Plan, Financed by ETI Repeal (Extraterritorial Income Exclusion).

Thompson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 17, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.145

Sex

Male

Interview Date

4/17/2007

Last Name

Thompson

Maker Category
Middle Name

C.

Schools

Hygienic School

Steelton-Highspire High School

University of Pennsylvania

West Chester University

Millersville University

Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania

First Name

Samuel

Birth City, State, Country

Harrisburg

HM ID

THO14

Favorite Season

Fall, Spring

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands

Favorite Quote

Let's Roll.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Pennsylvania

Birth Date

10/25/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

State College

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Swordfish

Short Description

Academic administrator, tax lawyer, and law professor Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. (1943 - ) served as the partner-in-charge of the tax department at the law firm of Schiff Hardin & Waite in Chicago, Illinois. He taught law classes at the University of Virginia, UCLA and served as dean of the University of Miami School of Law.

Employment

Devereux Foundation

School District of Philadelphia

Philadelphia Department of Human Services

Davis, Polk & Wardwell, LLP

Northwestern University (Evanston, Ill.). School of Law

University of Virginia

University of California, Los Angeles

United Sates Department of The Treasury

University of Miami

South Africa. Ministry of Finance

Favorite Color

Yellow

Timing Pairs
0,0:14027,236:17513,310:20916,391:27773,479:31012,545:33777,583:34567,595:40097,684:40808,695:41519,711:52290,842:57866,926:72296,1103:73388,1127:77600,1261:78692,1288:84220,1334$0,0:1096,13:1670,22:2572,33:7328,90:7738,97:9542,123:23747,240:24328,249:25573,276:28063,345:31051,383:31715,394:45038,540:45500,547:46732,560:47117,566:47964,573:50197,609:50505,614:50813,620:51198,626:51660,631:61901,794:62286,800:78170,1125:83942,1275:96090,1476:104690,1612:116952,1814:127092,2036:141913,2172:146772,2259:152618,2343:160166,2505:176212,2658:187143,2857:202816,2936:203362,2944:206482,2987:209056,3025:209602,3033:211708,3087:217012,3201:226900,3280:231660,3328:233970,3372:234600,3384:235020,3395:239420,3454
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Samuel C. Thompson, Jr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. shares his parents' dates and places of birth

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. lists his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his parents' occupations

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his experiences at the Hygienic School in Steelton, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his experiences at Steelton-Highspire High School in Steelton, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his undergraduate college experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. recalls his decision to attend the University of Pennsylvania Law School in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes the University of Pennsylvania Law School

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. remembers his peers at the University of Pennsylvania Law School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his service in the U.S. Marine Corps during the Vietnam War

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. recalls the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. talks about his senior thesis at the Wharton School

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes how he came to teach at the Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. talks about his interest in mergers and acquisitions

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. remembers teaching at the Northwestern University School of Law in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his roles in education and government

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. reflects upon his experiences of discrimination

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. talks about his fellow African American law school deans

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his role at Schiff Hardin and Waite

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his political involvement

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. lists his publications

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes the Center for the Study of Mergers and Acquisitions

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his role at the South African National Treasury

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. recalls his civil rights activities the South

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. recalls organizing the NAACP chapter at West Chester State College

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. reflects upon his accomplishments

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. remembers Wayne McCoy

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. talks about his family

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his tenure as dean of the University of Miami School of Law, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his tenure as dean of the University of Miami School of Law, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his career at the South African National Treasury

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. recalls his departure from the University of Miami School of Law

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. reflects upon affirmative action, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. reflects upon affirmative action, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. remembers writing for the National Black Law Journal

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$4

DAStory

11$1

DATitle
Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. describes his role at the South African National Treasury
Samuel C. Thompson, Jr. recalls his civil rights activities the South
Transcript
Let me ask you about the--you was a consultant to South African president Nelson Mandela at one time?$$Well, I was, I was a consultant to the South African treasury department [National Treasury].$$Okay.$$I, I didn't work directly with Nelson Mandela, but I, but I worked with the, I worked in the Ministry of Finance--$$Okay.$$--for a, for a little over a year, the Ministry of Finance and also the South African Revenue Service--$$Okay.$$--for, for a little over a year.$$And, basically, what you did in just a few words.$$Yeah, I was the tax policy advisor to the, to the, to the Ministry of Finance, and then to the, to the South African Revenue Service. And I helped them with a project to modernize their income tax. And we, we, for example, they, during that time, adopted what's known as a capital gains tax. They did not tax capital gains prior to that time, and they moved to what's known as a worldwide, a modified worldwide system of taxing foreign income, as opposed to the system that they, they previously had, which was a, which was a basically, basically something called a territorial system that did not tax income earned by South Africans out of South Africa, outside of South Africa (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Okay.$$And, and I, those were sort of the principal things I worked on when I was in South Africa.$You've had a long and successful career, and I'm sure you must be very, very proud of it. What I wanted to ask--if there's anything that I may have overlooked in this interview that we could cover at this point?$$Yeah, you know, one of the things I suppose I would mention is that (laughter), I was talking to my wife [Becky Sue Thompson] about this the other day. When I was in law school, my first year of law school, I went with two other people--a white guy and a black lady, down to Mississippi during Christmastime to work on a civil rights project in a place called Leland, Mississippi, a place called tent city, where some sharecroppers had left their sharecropping jobs to work in this, to work in this, to, to work in this--I mean, to, to build a new life for themselves. And we were going down from the University of Pennsylvania [University of Pennsylvania Law School, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania] to help them put up this, this community center. So, we went down and to, to work with them. You know, it was the height of the Civil Rights Movement. My parents [Emmitt Nickens Thompson and Samuel C. Thompson, Sr.] didn't want me to go. They were, you know, frightened.$$Right. What year was this?$$This was in 1965.$$All right.$$This was in December of 1965. They didn't want me to go because of the, you know, fear for what, what might happen.$$Right.$$And I remember as we, as we, we drove, we were driving down to Mississippi. And we stopped--I think, it was in Nashville, Tennessee. And the, we stayed in a black area in a black hotel. And the, you know, the, the, the lady, the black lady didn't have anything romantically to do with either the white guy or myself. But when we stopped in this hotel in, in, in Nashville, they made me and the white lady--me and the black lady--stay in a room. And they put the white lady--put the white guy in another room by himself. And they said, "Now, you, you can be in there, but she can get up, and go into his room after," (laughter), "after we check you in," or something like that. I thought that was awfully funny (laughter). But, but it, you know, when, I remember distinctly when we were, how we felt when we crossed the border into Mississippi, you know, the fear we felt.$$Apprehension then--$$Here, we, you know, a white guy and two--and a black lady and a black man--going to Jackson, Mississippi, or Green- we're going to Greenville, Mississippi, going to stay in Greenville, working on this project, in Leland, Mississippi. We were, we were frightened, we were intimidated.$$Right.$$And I, I was just telling my wife, I was more intimidated driving into Mississippi than I was going to my first assignment in Vietnam as a Marine [U.S. Marine Corps]. And it's, it, it, it--those, those, you know, the people of Mississippi, who, who, who built that system of intimidation, you know, were, were, were doing something very evil.$$Right.$$And it was, and, and, and to do that to people in, in, in, in their own country is just sickening. And, and for, for the federal government to have permitted it to happen is even, is even worse.$$Right, right. I would certainly, certainly--$$So, you know, that's, you know, I, I, just drawing the comparison between, you know, driving, for, for an American citizen to be more frightened driving into Mississippi, than he is going into Vietnam in a combat situation in Vietnam, is just, it's just, you know, it shouldn't be.$$It should, should not be.

Jane Bond Moore

Civil rights attorney and law professor Jane Bond Moore was born Jane Marguerite Bond on September 1, 1938, in Nashville, Tennessee. Her mother, Julia Hynes Washington Bond, was a second generation college graduate and her father, “race man” Horace Mann Bond, was a world class scholar and president of Fort Valley State University and Lincoln University. As a child, Moore met Paul Robeson, Kwame Nkrumah, Ann Morrow Lindberg, and Philippa Duke Schuyler; she attended Fort Valley Demonstration School, “School at Ms. Foster’s House,” Village School at Lincoln University, Cambridge School in Weston, Massachusetts, and graduated from Wilmington, Delaware’s Friends High School in 1955. After first attending University of Pennsylvania and Lincoln University, Moore graduated from Spelman College in 1959 with her B.S. degree in psychology.

She worked for the Southern Regional Council, helping to monitor Southern lynchings. During the 1960s; volunteered in the Atlanta offices of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC); and worked with James Forman, Ruby Doris Smith, and her brother, Julian Bond, helping with his successful 1966 campaign for a seat in the Georgia State Legislature. In 1971, Moore relocated to Berkeley, California with her husband, Howard Moore, Jr. Jane Bond Moore graduated with her J.D. degree from Boalt Hall at the University of California in 1975, and began practicing law in 1980. Moore worked for a time with the Federal Trade Commission, and from 1990 to 2001, she worked with the Oakland Unified School District. At the Oakland Unified School District, Moore represented clients in public school student discipline cases and public employees in both discrimination and disciplinary matters.

Moore began working as a law partner with her husband at Moore & Moore in 2001. In addition, Moore taught employment law and civil rights law at John F. Kennedy University Law School. Moore also taught “The Constitution, Labor, and the Law” at the undergraduate level at Notre Dame de Namur University. Moore was a member of the Labor and Employment Section of the State Bar of California; the California Law Association; the National Law Association; the Alameda County Bar Association; and the Charles H. Houston Bar Association. The Center for Social Justice presented Moore on 2006’s Civil Rights and Diversity Series, where her speech was entitled “Black, Brown, and Yellow, Encounters with the Constitution and School Segregation.”

Moore is the mother of three grown children: Grace, Constance, and Kojo.

Accession Number

A2007.138

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/14/2007

Last Name

Moore

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Bond

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Wilmington Friends School

The Cambridge School of Weston

Fort Valley Demonstration School

University of Pennsylvania

Lincoln University

Spelman College

University of California, Berkeley School of Law

First Name

Jane

Birth City, State, Country

Nashville

HM ID

MOO11

Favorite Season

None

State

Tennessee

Favorite Vacation Destination

Beaches

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Interview Description
Birth Date

9/1/1938

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Bay Area/Berkeley

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Peanut Butter Cookies

Short Description

Law professor Jane Bond Moore (1938 - ) spent over twenty-six years as an attorney, and enjoyed a long and successful teaching career at multiple institutions of higher learning.

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
0,0:13330,216:32755,606:34705,652:35080,658:38155,707:42090,741:76818,1164:83058,1271:83370,1276:83682,1281:85632,1311:114300,1652:114948,1661:146014,2056:176410,2482$0,0:22684,355:34358,456:65083,729:134746,1501:160348,1792:164089,1847:199730,2367:200192,2375:214502,2509:229524,2695:240277,2802:240859,2810:241247,2815:246097,2904:246485,2909:261294,3101:276620,3252
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Jane Bond Moore's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Jane Bond Moore lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her maternal family history, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her maternal family history, pt.2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her mother, HistoryMaker Julia Bond

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her paternal family history, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her paternal family history, pt.2

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her father's career in higher education

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Jane Bond Moore describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Jane Bond Moore talks about discussions about race in her family and African American newspapers

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Jane Bond Moore describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Jane Bond Moore describes sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Jane Bond Moore describes the role of church in her upbringing

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Jane Bond Moore recalls meeting famous African Americans like Jackie Robinson, Paul Robeson, W.E.B. Du Bois, and Philippa Schuyler

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Jane Bond Moore remembers meeting Anne Morrow Lindbergh and her brother, Dwight Morrow

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Jane Bond Moore describes her childhood personality and growing up on the campus of Lincoln University in Oxford, Pennsylvania

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Jane Bond Moore describes her young love of reading and her favorite books

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Jane Bond Moore recalls her grade school years

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her boarding school experiences at The Cambridge School of Weston and Wilmington Friends School

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Jane Bond Moore recalls her favorite teachers in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Jane Bond Moore describes her experience away from the black community while attending Wilmington Friends School

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Jane Bond Moore describes her college career

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Jane Bond Moore recalls teachers who influenced her during her college career

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Jane Bond Moore recalls her lack of interest in sororities

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her graduate school career

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Jane Bond Moore describes how she got involved in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Jane Bond Moore recalls meeting her husband, HistoryMaker Howard Moore, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Jane Bond Moore recalls leading figures in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Jane Bond Moore describes her role in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Jane Bond Moore talks about integration in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her three children

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Jane Bond Moore describes her memories of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and the relationship between SNCC and the SCLC

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Jane Bond Moore talks about the impact that SNCC and SCLC had in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Jane Bond Moore recalls her concern for the safety of her brothers, James Bond and HistoryMaker Julian Bond

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Jane Bond Moore recalls her eagerness to leave Atlanta, Georgia for Berkeley, California

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Jane Bond Moore recalls cultural differences between Atlanta, Georgia and Berkeley, California

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her decision to attend the University of California Berkeley School of Law and her experiences there

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Jane Bond Moore reflects upon her experience as a lawyer

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Jane Bond Moore describes what she would change about the judicial system

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Jane Bond Moore shares memorable court cases from her legal career

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Jane Bond Moore describes her work at Moore & Moore and as a legal lecturer

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her involvement in several professional organizations and her volunteer work

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Jane Bond Moore describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Jane Bond Moore reflects upon what she would do differently

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Jane Bond Moore talks about her three children and their careers

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Jane Bond Moore talks about how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Jane Bond Moore narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$1

DAStory

10$6

DATitle
Jane Bond Moore describes how she got involved in the Civil Rights Movement
Jane Bond Moore talks about her paternal family history, pt.1
Transcript
Well, well tell us how you got involved in the Civil Rights Movement, I mean what happened?$$Oh, 'cause through Julian [Bond, HM], through the--his friends because I was older than he, so I had already graduated and through Julian I got involved and then I got--.$$Now he was involved with SNCC [Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee]--?$$With SNCC, yeah.$$And what specifically were they doing that got you involved?$$Well let's see how--actually I got involved not only through him but through my roommate [Dorothy Miller Zellner], and I'll explain how I got to the roommate. I got a job, I stopped going to graduate school and I got a job at a place called the Southern Regional Council which is an organization in Atlanta [Georgia] that was founded by among other things a woman called Mrs. Tilley who was one of those white women who was trying to stop lynching. I don't know if you knew there was a group of white women and they'd go to trials and just sit in the courtroom, and I'm sure they did other things, so she was one of the founders, but anyway it was sort of an early integration or fellow, you know integration organization, sort of a white organization, mostly white organization and they were supporting integration efforts, you know the efforts that were being made at that time and I think they did some work with voter education and education and different things, but anyway I had a very menial job there as a--what I would do is read papers including the Pittsburgh Courier which was still I guess pretty popular then, read those and cut out the stories having to do with race in the South and file them and a young woman from New York, Dottie Miller, came there and I met her and then we decided to room together, which all the secretaries who were black at the Southern Regional Council thought was scandalous, that shows how far--I mean they thought they couldn't believe that I was actually going to not live with my parents and live in this apartment with this other girl, and I wasn't married or anything, you know it's just like us being a complete wild person in there, I don't know what they thought I was going to do, but they, I remember they just keep--they were incredulous, they could not believe I was going to do that so we got an apartment and then she started working with SNCC, and I stayed at the Southern Regional Council and then soon around that time I met Howard, got married, had a baby and then he was representing everything.$Okay, now can you give us your father's full name and spell it for us?$$Horace, H-O-R-A-C-E, Mann, M-A-N-N, Bond, B-O-N-D.$$Now he was named after the--what they call the "Father of American Education"--.$$Yes, who--.$$Horace Mann?$$Yeah, who was connected to Oberlin College [Oberlin, Ohio] and my father's mother was a student at Oberlin College so I'm sure that's why she named him Horace Mann.$$Did she know Horace Mann?$$I don't know, I never knew my grandparents from that side, and now I'm thinking about it all my uncles and aunts from that side of course are now dead so I don't know if they ever did or not.$$Yeah it would be interesting, I--cause Horace Mann went on to found Antioch College in Yellow Springs [Ohio], right down I guess maybe a hundred miles away from Oberlin.$$I don't know, I guess we could you know it could be easy to find if we found out when she was there and if he was around or what.$$Okay and what is date of birth and place of birth?$$Oh, he was born in Nashville [Tennessee] too I'm pretty sure, if not that was in Louisville, Kentucky, but I'm sorry I don't know his date of birth. He died in 1972 I think and he was in his--he may have been about my age you know or maybe in his seventies, I don't know. So maybe he was born--if my mother was born in 1910 or, let's see, she's ninety-eight, that's almost a hundred, a hundred and six. She was probably born in 1908, so my father probably was born in 1900, 1901, 1902, something like that, but maybe I might have those all off, don't take my word for it.$$Okay well that gets us close to it anyway, all right and what do you know about the ancestors on your father's side?$$Well, let's see I know that his father was the son of a white man and a black woman. His name was James Bond and he went to college in Berea, Berea College in Kentucky which is a college, do I need to tell all that about Berea?$$Well, yeah go ahead.$$Well Berea was a college in, still is, it's still there, is a college in Kentucky that was founded by a man name John Fee who came from a slave-holding family and somehow became a great egalitarian so he founded this college in Kentucky up in the mountains of Kentucky and it was, actually it was very remarkable, not only was it racially integrated but they, women were students too so and always this man was very far ahead of himself and then I heard I think the one time I went to Berea they were, someone somewhere there they told me that everyone around them wasn't happy (laughter), that they were there and they would, they kind of built the campus so that the homes of the black professors or people were on the inside so they could be protected by the people on the outside. At any rate he went to school there and then after that he worked for the YMCA, and did a lot of work on race relations, things like that. I don't know, I know Julian [Bond, HM] probably knows some more specifics about his--.$$So James Bond worked for the YWC--YMCAs?$$YMCA I believe, yeah.$$And, okay.$$He was also a minister because at one point he was minister of a small congregation with a church in Atlanta that's still there, it's very near the Atlanta University Center and my--where my father and his family lived in Atlanta for a while.

Vernellia Randall

Law professor Vernellia Ruth Randall was born March 6, 1948, in Gladewater, Texas to Mary Pauline Hall Randall and Ernest Randall. Both parents were associated with Jarvis Christian College. Raised by her father in difficult circumstances in Mule Shoe, Texas, Randall attended the colored school there and graduated from Carver High School in Amarillo in 1966. Receiving her A.A. degree from Amarillo College, she entered the University of Texas and earned her B.S. degree from the School of Nursing. Randall obtained her M.S. degree in nursing from the University of Washington in 1978 and in 1987 her J.D. degree from Northwestern School of Law, Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon.

Starting a career in medicine as a nurse and family nurse practitioner, Randall served as Maternal-Child Health Nurse Coordinator for the Alaska Department of Health and Social Services in Juneau, Alaska, from 1979 to 1984. She has been a professor of nursing and community health at Oregon Health Sciences University and Wright State University as well as a law professor at Northwestern School of Law, Seattle University School of Law, and the University of Dayton. She was an associate with the Portland law firm of Bullivant, Houser, Bailey, Pendergrass and Hoffman from 1987 to 1989. In 1994, Randall was hired as Associate Professor, School of Law, University of Dayton. Since that time she also has been director of the Academic Excellence Program for the University of Dayton, where she plans and implements academic support services for students and trains teaching assistants.

Highly sought after as a public speaker on matters of health and race, Randall has also published widely. She is a recipient of the Chairman’s Award from the Ohio Commission on Minority Health and has been honored by a Commendation from the Ohio House of Representatives. Randall is an accomplished webmaster and has received awards for her website development. Some of her sites include: “Race, Health Care and the Law” and “Gender and the Law”. Her latest book is entitled, Dying While Black.

The mother of two sons, Randall enjoys computers, movies, sewing and dancing.

Accession Number

A2006.052

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/24/2006 |and| 2/26/2008

Last Name

Randall

Maker Category
Organizations
Schools

Carver High School

Carver Elementary Academy

University of Texas at Austin

University of Washington

Lewis and Clark College

First Name

Vernellia

Birth City, State, Country

Gladewater

HM ID

RAN04

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

Yes - 0 - $500

Favorite Season

Fall, Spring

State

Texas

Favorite Vacation Destination

Anywhere Cold

Favorite Quote

No struggle, no progress.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Ohio

Interview Description
Birth Date

3/6/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Dayton

Country

USA

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Academic administrator and law professor Vernellia Randall (1948 - ) spoke and published widely on matters of health and race. She began her career as a nurse and nurse practitioner, and later became a professor of law at Dayton University where she also directed the Academic Excellence Program.

Employment

Bess Kaiser Hospital

High Point Health Center

Fairbanks Health Center

Alaska Department of Health and Social Services

Bullivant, Houser, Bailey, Pendergrass and Hoffman

University of Dayton School of Law

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Vernellia Randall's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall talks about her maternal grandmother's training as a nurse

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall talks about her maternal grandparents' community in Texas

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall talks about her mother's college education

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall describes her mother's college and her married life

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall recalls her memories of her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Vernellia Randall recalls her mother's illness and the impact of her death

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall describes her father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall talks about her paternal grandfather's decision to educate his children

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall explains how the spelling of her family name was changed

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall talks about her paternal grandparents

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall recalls her father's education and career

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall recalls her father's personality and her childhood memories of him

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall recalls traveling in caravans through Texas

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall recalls her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Vernellia Randall recalls her memories of growing up in Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall recalls her experience at Muleshoe Colored School

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon the integration of schools in Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall recalls being denied her test scores in Muleshoe, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall describes the sharecropping community in Muleshoe, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall recalls her father being asked to leave the Muleshoe Colored School

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall recalls her foster mother's illegal businesses

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall describes the black community in Amarillo, Texas

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall recalls being forced to work at her foster mother's hotel and bar

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Vernellia Randall describes her foster mother's hotel and bar business

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Vernellia Randall talks about her foster mother

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall describes her foster mother's abuse, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall describes her foster mother's abuse, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall recalls the black community's failure to address her foster mother's abuse

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall talks about her experience in church while growing up

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall recalls her experiences in high school

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall recalls finding solace in the poem 'Invictus'

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall recalls enrolling at Amarillo Junior College

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall describes her foster mother's manipulation

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon her decision to leave Texas

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall recalls her experience at the University of Texas at Austin

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall shares her method for multiple choice exams

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall recalls her activism as a college student

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall recalls becoming pregnant in college

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall talks about being on welfare as a new mother

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall talks about her siblings' lives as adults

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall recalls supporting herself financially during her pregnancy

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Vernellia Randall talks about moving to Portland, Oregon

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Vernellia Randall describes her experience as a nurse in Portland, Oregon

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall talks about attending the University of Washington

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall describes her experience at the University of Washington

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall recalls working as a nurse practitioner at a community health center

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall remembers the weather in Seattle, Washington

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall talks about moving to Fairbanks, Alaska

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall recalls her experience as a public health nurse in Alaska

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall recalls completing her master's degree and working in Juneau, Alaska

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall talks about racial discrimination in Alaska

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Slating of Vernellia Randall's interview, session 2

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall describes the discrimination she faced in Juneau, Alaska

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall recalls her decision to leave Alaska, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall recalls her decision to leave Alaska, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall recalls raising her children in a majority white area

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall recalls her decision to attend law school

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall talks about her foster mother and sister living in Alaska

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall recalls the challenges her older son faced in Portland, Oregon

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall describes her experience in law school, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall describes her experience in law school, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall recalls being the only African American in her law school class

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall remembers managing her law studies as a single mother

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall recalls her success in law school at Lewis and Clark College

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall recalls her mentors in law school

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall remembers her difficulty finding a job after law school

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall recalls her involvement in minority lawyers' organizations

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Vernellia Randall remembers her law firm's discontent with her activism

Tape: 8 Story: 10 - Vernellia Randall talks about her learning disability

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall recalls negotiating paid leave to search for a new job

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall recalls her decision to teach at the University of Dayton

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall talks about the majority white community in Oakwood, Ohio

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall recalls her sons being racially profiled in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall describes the racial profiling of black men at the University of Dayton

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall talks about her son's decision to attend school in Oakwood, Ohio

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall recalls integrating the University of Dayton School of Law faculty

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall describes her challenges on the law faculty of the University of Dayton

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Vernellia Randall recalls how her research was received at the University of Dayton School of Law

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Vernellia Randall recalls being physically threatened by an associate dean

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall talks about the content on her websites

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall describes her course, Race and Racism in American Law

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall talks about her courses at the University of Dayton

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall recalls directing an academic support program for first-year law students

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall describes her pedagogy for first-year law students

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon the lack of diversity at the University of Dayton School of Law

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon the need for African American law students

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - Vernellia Randall critiques the curriculum and sexism at historically black law schools

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall explains the subject of her book, 'Dying While Black,' pt. 1

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall explains the subject of her book, 'Dying While Black,' pt. 2

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall describes the response to her book 'Dying While Black'

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon the issue of race in America

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Vernellia Randall talks about the importance of acknowledging race in America

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Vernellia Randall describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon her life

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Vernellia Randall reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - Vernellia Randall describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - Vernellia Randall narrates her photographs

DASession

2$2

DATape

7$8

DAStory

6$9

DATitle
Vernellia Randall recalls her decision to attend law school
Vernellia Randall remembers her law firm's discontent with her activism
Transcript
When did you decide to actually leave Alaska, and, and (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) I guess in eighty--$$--and where were you going?$$Eighty-three [1983] I just de- I decided that, I decided that I wasn't gonna go back to nursing school and get a Ph.D. because I'd just be a smart nurse, and I could be over nurses (laughter), and I wanted a degree-- And, and this is the, this is the unofficial--this is what the real decision-making--I have an official story that I tell when people ask me why you go to law school. This is not the story I tell. You know, but this is the reason that I basically went to law, is, is that a number of factors came together. I wanted to do something where I would get recognition for my intellect. And I--because I had kids [Tshaka Randall and Issa Randall], I needed to do something that didn't take up a whole lot of time. So I didn't want to go to medical school, and law seems like one of those things where people say oh, you must be smart. You know, they think you're--if you say you're a lawyer, people say oh, you must be smart. Fact, it's really funny. I was recently telling someone, people now say--they always say it when I tell them. I think that's part of the amazement, a black person who's a law professor. And, and they'll, they invariably will comment on it in some way. And, and lots of time it's oh, you must be smart. But recently people have started saying bless you. (Laughter) I don't even understand that. I mean, lawyers are evil, and you're not. (Laughter) So, thank you for being in this profession that--I, I, I don't understand it. I've had it--in the last year, I've had that response when people say what do you do, and I say I'm a law professor. They say oh, bless you. And I get it from both black and white, so I don't really know where that's coming from. But at--anyway, so I decided to go to law school. And I applied, you know, did what I needed to do and decided to go to Portland [Oregon], Lewis and Clark [Northwestern School of Law, Lewis and Clark College] 'cause my dad [Ernest Randall] was in Oregon. And I knew that as a single parent, that I was gonna need a support system. So, I packed up my two kids, who were twelve and six at the time, and we moved down to Portland.$$Now at this time, now--$$This is '84 [1984].$$Okay.$So my law firm calls me in. I think this was--and says that they think I'm overextended and that, that they want me to not be involved in this partic- starting this particular organization [Oregon Women Lawyers]. And I thought at first they were joking, I actually did. And I said, I said I, I said--I, I laughed. It was a partner and associate meeting with me, both white. And I said well, I didn't think I was overextended, if they had problems. And they--I said you know, my time is my time. If you don't want me--'cause we, we supposed to do pro bono work and volunteer. They, you know, usually they want you to belong to different organizations, how they get and make money and stuff. So I said, "If you are saying that you don't want me to use Bullivant [Bullivant Wright Leedy Johnson Pendergrass and Hoffman; Bullivant Houser Bailey PC] resources, copy machines, stuff like that, secretarial help, stuff like that, I understand that. And I'll be happy to tell you things that I'm working on, and you can tell me what you don't want me to use your resources on. Okay, I'll be happy to do that. But as far as my personal time, my time was my time." And they said, "All of your time is Bullivant time." That's large firm mentality, still is for that matter. People make these high wages; they get high wages, but the expectation is, is that you are owned by them. (Laughter) I laughed. I said, "You have to be joking." I said--and I think this was the kiss of death--, "My folks stopped being slaves (laughter) in 1867. You don't own me." I said, "I--if, if, if I'm not working up to your expectations, you tell me. I'll try and fix it. If I can't fix it, then you do what you have to do; you fire me." I said, "But there's no way I'm getting permission from you about what to do on my off time." So that was the kiss of death. They didn't fire me. They started--they could--and, and I think they felt like they couldn't fire me because of my position of being the only black person, okay, and my--so what they did is the process that is common in a law firm. They started not giving me work. So that--'cause you're supposed to bill two thousand hours a month, which is about forty hours a week or something like maybe a little over forty hours a week. And it's very difficult to get because you can't bill--that's billable hours. And in order to get forty billable hours you gotta work fifty, sixty hours to be able to get forty billable hours. And so if people are not giving you work, you're not gonna get--you're not gonna meet that goal. So I could see the handwriting on the wall, so I thought oh, I gotta get out of here before I--before they fire me.

Derrick A. Bell, Jr.

Derrick Albert Bell, Jr., was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on November 6, 1930. Bell was offered a scholarship to Lincoln University but was unable to attend because he did not receive enough financial aid. Becoming the first member of his family to go to college, Bell chose to attend Duquesne University, earning his A.B. in 1952.

While attending Duquesne University, Bell joined the ROTC, and following his graduation, went to Korea as part of the U.S. Air Force. Returning from the war in 1954, Bell attended the University of Pittsburgh Law School, earning an L.L.B. in 1957. Bell was hired by the U.S. Justice Department after graduation, but left in 1959 over his refusal to terminate his involvement with the NAACP; subsequently, Thurgood Marshall recruited him to join the NAACP Legal Defense Fund where he oversaw three hundred school desegregation cases. In 1966, Bell was named deputy director of civil rights at the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, before becoming a teacher at USC law school and director of USC's Western Center on Law and Poverty in 1968.

In 1971, Bell became the first African American to become a tenured professor at Harvard Law School; there he established a course in civil rights law and wrote Race, Racism and American Law, which today is a standard textbook in law schools around the country. Leaving Harvard, Bell became the first African American dean of the University of Oregon Law School, and in 1985, he resigned in protest after the university directed him not to hire an Asian American candidate for a faculty position. Returning to Harvard Law School, Bell would again resign in protest in 1992 over the school’s failure to hire and offer tenure to minority women.

In addition to his work in the classroom, Bell was an acclaimed author, having written numerous books, most notably his series featuring fictional civil rights leader Geneva Crenshaw, including And We Are Not Saved and Faces at the Bottom of the Well. In 2002, Bell wrote Ethical Ambition: Living a Life of Meaning and Worth, which contained his thoughts on achieving success while maintaining integrity. Most recently, Bell authored Silent Covenants: Brown v. Board of Education and the Unfulfilled Hopes for Racial Reform. Bell had been the recipient of numerous honors and awards; his later work included serving as a visiting professor of law at the New York University School of Law.

Derrick Bell passed away on October 5, 2011 at age 80.

Accession Number

A2004.242

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/1/2004

Last Name

Bell

Maker Category
Middle Name

A.

Organizations
Schools

Schenley High School

Duquesne University

University of Pittsburgh

First Name

Derrick

Birth City, State, Country

Pittsburgh

HM ID

BEL03

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Woodstock, New York

Favorite Quote

My Goodness.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Interview Description
Birth Date

11/16/1930

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

USA

Favorite Food

Oats

Death Date

10/5/2011

Short Description

Law professor and civil rights lawyer Derrick A. Bell, Jr. (1930 - 2011 ) was recruited by Thurgood Marshall to join the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, where he oversaw three hundred school desegregation cases; he was later named Deputy Director of Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. Bell later became the first African American to serve as a tenured professor at Harvard Law School, and, the first African American dean of the University of Oregon Law School.

Employment

U.S. Air Force

Department of Justice; Civil Rights Division

NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund

Department of Health, Education and Welfare

Harvard Law School

University of Oregon Law School

New York University Law School

University of Southern California

Favorite Color

Fall Colors

DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Derrick A. Bell, Jr.'s interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. remembers his maternal uncles

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his parents' elopement in 1930

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his father's successful career and business

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes the sights and sounds of growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls his personality and interests as a young boy

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his experience in elementary and middle school

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his experience at Camp James Weldon Johnson

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon his role models as a young boy

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the need for work ethics and role models

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his experience at Schenley High School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his social life in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon his philosophy for disciplining children

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. remembers attending Grace Memorial Presbyterian Church

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his first wife's career aspirations

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls attending Pittsburgh's Duquesne University

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls his deployment to the Korean War

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes marrying his first wife, Jewel Hairston Bell

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his marriage to Jewel Hairston Bell

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls being in the Civil Air Patrol in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his experience on U.S. Air Force bases in the South

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls his service in the Korean War

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls his wife, Jewel Hairston Bell's insight

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his initial interest in civil rights law

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes being an officer of the guard in Korea

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls law school and his job prospects thereafter

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls resigning from the U.S. Department of Justice

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls being recruited to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund by Thurgood Marshall

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes the defense team for the Greensboro sit-ins

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls school desegregation in Mississippi

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his colleagues at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the desegregation of schools in the South

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls Medgar Evers' murder in Mississippi

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the consequences of school integration

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. considers alternatives to school integration

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the political psychology behind civil rights policy, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the political psychology behind civil rights policy, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls incidents from school desegregation in the South

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the challenges facing the black community

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon the 2004 presidential election

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls his decision to teach at Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes earning tenure at Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. talks about his books

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes the Hayes-Tilden Compromise

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his book's adaptation into a TV series

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his characters in 'Faces at the Bottom of the Well' and 'Gospel Choirs'

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his move to the University of Oregon School of Law

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his deanship at the University of Oregon

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls his wife's battle with breast cancer

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. recalls teaching civil rights at Harvard Law School

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his experience at New York University School of Law

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes HistoryMaker Lani Guinier

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon African American Republican leadership

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon his life and career

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes his parents' reaction to his career

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Derrick A. Bell, Jr. describes how he would like to be remembered