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Dana Canedy

Writer and journalist Dana Canedy was born and raised near Fort Knox, Kentucky. Although she was the daughter of a military family, Canedy knew from a young age that she wanted to be a writer. After being the first in her family to graduate from high school, Canedy went on to receive her B.A. degree in journalism from the University of Kentucky. While at the University of Kentucky, she volunteered for internships and phoned publications in order to see if she could work for free. In her junior year of college, Canedy received an internship from the Wall Street Journal.

Upon graduation, Canedy was hired as a police beat reporter at the West Palm Beach Post, where she worked for one year. Not happy with her position, she left the West Palm Beach Post and went to work for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, where she was a reporter from 1988 until 1996. Then, in 1996, Canedy was hired as a reporter for the New York Times, where she covered stories ranging from race relations to spending time with a murderer in order to learn how and why he killed. Canedy also worked as a national correspondent and as bureau chief for Florida. In 2001, she was part of the team that won a Pulitzer Prize for national reporting for "How Race Is Lived in America," a series on race relations in the United States. In 2006, Canedy was promoted to senior editor at the New York Times in charge of newsroom recruiting and hiring, newsroom staff training, and career development.

Canedy authored the New York Times best-selling memoir A Journal for Jordan: A Story of Love and Honor, which was published in 2008. It tells the story of Canedy's fiancé, First Sergeant Charles Monroe King, who died as the result of the detonation of an improvised explosive device (I.E.D.) during the war in Iraq. Canady now lives with her son Jordan in New York City.

Dana Canedy was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 12, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.298

Sex

Female

Interview Date

11/12/2013

Last Name

Canedy

Maker Category
Organizations
Schools

University of Kentucky

Mudge Elementary School

Radcliff Elementary School

North Hardin High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Dana

Birth City, State, Country

Fort Knox

HM ID

CAN05

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Kentucky

Favorite Vacation Destination

Cruises

Favorite Quote

I Love You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

6/8/1965

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Lobster Pizza

Short Description

Newspaper editor and author Dana Canedy (1965 - ) was a senior editor at The New York Times. She was part of the team that won a Pulitzer Prize for "How Race Is Lived in America." She was also the author of The New York Times bestseller A Journal for Jordan: A Story of Love and Honor.

Employment

West Palm Beach Post

Plain Dealer

New York Times

Favorite Color

Purple

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Dana Canedy's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Dana Canedy remembers her community in Fort Knox, Kentucky

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Dana Canedy describes her family's household

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Dana Canedy remembers Mudge Elementary School in Fort Knox, Kentucky

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Dana Canedy talks about growing up on a military base

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Dana Canedy remembers her chores

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Dana Canedy talks about her father's infidelity

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy talks about her early experiences of religion

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy describes her parents' values

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy recalls moving to Radcliff, Kentucky

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy remembers North Hardin High School in Radcliff, Kentucky

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy remembers her influential teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy talks about her early interest in writing

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Dana Canedy recalls her start at the University of Kentucky in Lexington, Kentucky

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Dana Canedy remembers her newspaper internships

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Dana Canedy remembers her internship at The Wall Street Journal, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Dana Canedy talks about her African American peers at the University of Kentucky

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Dana Canedy describes her passion for journalism

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Dana Canedy remembers her internship at The Wall Street Journal, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Dana Canedy remembers securing her first full-time reporting position

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy describes her experiences as a police reporter for The Palm Beach Post

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy recalls her decision to leave The Palm Beach Post

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy describes the work environment at The Plain Dealer in Cleveland, Ohio

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy talks about her reporting experiences at The Plain Dealer

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy remembers the Robert C. Maynard Institute for Journalism Education

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy recalls the news stories she covered at The Plain Dealer

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Dana Canedy talks about the role of emotions and objectivity in journalism

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Dana Canedy talks about her aspirations

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Dana Canedy remembers being offered a position at The New York Times

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Dana Canedy talks about the apprenticeship program at The New York Times

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Dana Canedy talks about the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy talks about her training at The New York Times

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy talks about The New York Times organization

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy describes The New York Times' role in the news industry

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy talks about her relationship with Gregory L. Moore

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy remembers meeting Charles M. King

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy describes her decision to have a child

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Dana Canedy talks about Charles M. King's career

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Dana Canedy reflects upon her relationship with Charles M. King

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Dana Canedy reflects upon the role of religion in her relationship with Charles M. King

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy talks about Charles M. King's journal

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy remembers Charles M. King's death

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy remembers her decision to write about Charles M. King's death

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy remembers reading Charles M. King's journal for the first time

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy talks about the process of writing 'A Journal For Jordan'

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy talks about her son, Jordan King, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Dana Canedy talks about her son, Jordan King, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Dana Canedy reflects upon her life after Charles M. King's death

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy reflects upon her memories of Charles M. King

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy remembers her first position at The New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy remembers the impetus for 'How Race Is Lived in America'

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy describe her work on 'How Race Is Lived in America'

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy recalls her professional growth after the publication of 'How Race Is Lived in America'

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy describes her experiences as chief of The New York Times' Florida bureau

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Dana Canedy describes her role as assignment editor on the national desk of The New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Dana Canedy describes her responsibilities as a senior editor at The New York Times

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Dana Canedy talks about the future of journalism

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Dana Canedy talks about the impact of digital technology on journalism

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Dana Canedy describes her plans for the future

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Dana Canedy describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Dana Canedy reflects upon the legacy of her generation

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Dana Canedy reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Dana Canedy describes how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$3

DAStory

4$7

DATitle
Dana Canedy remembers her decision to write about Charles M. King's death
Dana Canedy recalls the news stories she covered at The Plain Dealer
Transcript
So like I, I--it's funny. As you'll see this pattern in my life, I always come back to writing, right? So I come back to work after the funeral, and I just couldn't work. I'm like, "Okay, so you bury him [Charles M. King] and then you just go on like nothing happened?" So my boss--one of my bosses, Jill Abramson, who's now the executive editor and who's a friend, came by my desk one day and said, "How are you doing?" And I said, "I'm, I'm not well." And she said, "Well, leave," and I just left. And then I said to her--we were coming up on, in this country, of three thousand soldiers dying in the war [Iraq War], and every time there's like, five hundred soldiers, one thousand soldiers. You hit these sort of artificial markers in, in numb- casualty numbers. News organizations take that as an opportunity to take stock in where we are in the war. And so we were preparing this big package about the, the war which I was involved in. And I remember thinking, I'm the only soldier--the only national journalist in the country who's lost a soldier in this war and had that knock on the door from the [U.S.] military. I need to write about this. So Jill said, "Let's do it," and I wrote a first person piece about losing a soldier in war that ran on the front page of The Times [The New York Times]. And I remember at that time, one of the people who was in charge of website said, "We thought the site was going to crash from all the traffic." And he said--he said to me, "I wondered, what did we do?" And he said, "And I looked at the paper and I said that's what we did." And the response was so overwhelming that I realized I wanted to keep writing. And so--and I wanted people to know more and more about this man than the journal. And not just about us, but about the sacrifices that military families make every day without anybody knowing about them. And so I wrote the book, 'A Journal for Jordan' ['A Journal for Jordan: A Story of Love and Honor,' Dana Canedy] is the title, incorporating pieces of the journal into a memoir of our life together. And I wrote it primarily for Jordan [Canedy's son, Jordan King], so every chapter of the book starts, "Dear Jordan." And, and it was really--this is the most amazing thing. It wa- it's, it's the last project he and I ever did together. Because he wrote his part, and then I wrote my part; and we put it together. And so we really have this project that lives on, you know.$You know, I was--at that time, I might spend, you know, twelve hours in prison with a murderer to understand why he did what he did--I, in fact, I did do that--why he did (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Can, can--$$--what he did. Sure.$$--we--can we talk about that particular case, who the murderer's name was and--$$Oh, gosh, I don't remember his name.$$Okay, okay.$$I can find the clip for you (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) That's okay--$$But anyway, I'll never forget the case. It was--it was a guy who murdered his girlfriend's husband on the--slaughtered him on the front lawn of the house. And I, I get--I was thinking--and then when she showed up at the trial with her new boyfriend, and I remember thinking how did this happen? How did this guy end up doing this? And it was very clear to me that she had manipulated him into seeing her as a victim and killing her husband for her. She was from a wealthy family; he wasn't; so she got off scot free. And, and, and he was going to spend the next twenty, thirty years in prison. And I wanted to understand, how did you become a murderer, you know, for this woman? And so I literally spent the day in prison with him, and I had him explain to me everything. He told me where he put the, the knife in this guy's neck, why he did it, and I just found it fascinating. I, I guess, you know, part of being a, a journalist is wanting to study human nature of all sorts. So that was just one example. I could give you a million examples of where I got to just like study human nature. I'll never forget being at the cop shop one day. We had a little office there. And I get a call from this woman. This was right when crack cocaine was, was, was, was making the news. Nobody really knew what it was. So this woman calls. It's a slow news day. She says, "Listen, my son is in a coma--a coma because he smoked crack cocaine, and I don't know if he's going to make it. I want you to come and, and look at him and te- you know, I want to tell you about him so that this doesn't happen to other young people." Well, I thought this was a prank call, but I was like, well, let me go see. I go to the hospital and lo and behold, I walk into this hospital room and there's this young--he's a baby really, sixteen, seventeen year old kid, (unclear) to all these machines and monitors. And the mother's there and she tells me the story about how she, in her view, lost her baby. And oh, my god, I wrote that story [for The Plain Dealer], and, and, and I think it was--the mayor talked about it; teachers talked about it. I remember one time--I mean, just--I love studying and documenting human nature. I had a day off and I was at the mall. And I walked past this art gallery, and literally in the window there was a chair and an easel. And there was a young African American boy painting the most lovely painting. So I walked in and I asked the store, "What is--what, what is he doing? Why is he--?" He says "Oh, my gosh, this kid, he's a really gifted painter, you know. He's, he's, he's been accepted into the Art Insti--the Chicago Art Institute [School of the Art Institute of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois], but he doesn't have the money to go. So I let him sit in the window and paint to earn money, and hopefully he can take some art classes." I wrote that story and the kid got the money for college. Oh, what better way to spend your workday? My gosh, to this day, I've still--it's just to be able to do this with your life is--it's, it's a blessing and it's an honor; it humbles me all the time. And I'm thankful to God to be able to do this kind of work. It's really incredible.

Marcia Lythcott

Newspaper editor Marcia Lythcott was born on May 20, 1954 in Montgomery, Alabama. Her father, William Watkins, served in the U.S. Army; her mother, and Florence Watkins, a nurse’s aide. Both of her parents were avid readers. Lythcott’s mother used newspapers to introduce her and her sister, Pam, to politics. Some her favorite childhood novels and magazines were the Bobbsey Twins series, fairy tales, True Confessions magazine, Ebony and the Encyclopedia Britannica. After graduating from high school, both Lythcott and her sister attended the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Lythcott graduated from the University of Wisconsin-Madison with her B.A. degree in journalism.

Lythcott began her career in print journalism in the late 1970’s. She worked for four years as an education and police beat reporter for a local newspaper in Madison-Wisconsin. Then, in 1982, she was hired by the Chicago Tribune newspaper and began writing editorial pieces. Lythcott also assisted with major research projects and served as an editor of the “Opinion” section. Her article titled “Encore!, Encore!” (1987), published in the Chicago Tribune’s “Food Guide” section, was recognized as the most popular article and Best Reprise Recipe. At the Chicago Tribune Company, she served as the editor of Style and Home and the Good Eating Cookbook. As editor of the “Commentary” section in the Chicago Tribune, Lythcott typically read seventy-five to one-hundred opinion submissions a day. Later in her career, she became one of the highest ranking African American women on the Chicago Tribune’s editorial board.

Lythcott also served on the board member of the Louis Carr Internship Foundation. Her late husband, Stephen Lythcott, served as the vice president of the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois until his death in 1994. Throughout the years, her favorite pastimes have been reading, traveling, gardening and ballet.

Marcia Lythcott was interviewed by The History Makers on August 19, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.229

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/19/2013

Last Name

Lythcott

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widow

Middle Name

Ann

Occupation
Schools

University of Wisconsin-Madison

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Marcia

Birth City, State, Country

Montgomery

HM ID

LYT01

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Mexico

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

5/20/1954

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Liver, Onions

Short Description

Newspaper editor Marcia Lythcott (1954 - ) , long-time editor of the “Commentary” section in the Chicago Tribune, also served as editor of Style and Home and the Good Eating Cookbook.

Employment

Chicago Tribune

Favorite Color

Chartreuse

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Marcia Ann Lythcott's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her maternal grandparents' occupations and Greenville, Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her mother's life in Greenville, Alabama and her dislike of the South

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses her father's service in the military

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her parents and how they influenced her

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes the different places she lived while growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses race in the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about starting to attend school in Clovis, New Mexico

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about reading a lot from a young age

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about moving from Clovis, New Mexico to Bangor, Maine

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about living in Darmstadt, Germany

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses her love of reading

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about Madison, Wisconsin and the events of 1968

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes her experience in high school

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses the encouragement of her high school mentors

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes her career aspirations and the student protests at UW-Madison

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about studying journalism and college life

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her social life in college and her internship in La Crosse, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses the attitudes of La Crosse, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about graduating from college and the events of 1976

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes her first job at the Racine Journal Times

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about how she got the job at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her impressions of Mayor Harold Washington

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about the African American staff presence at the Chicago Tribune in 1983

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her first jobs at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her job as assistant food editor at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks her job as the style editor at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her marriage to Stephen Lythcott in 1986

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about being promoted to the editorial board at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about the political history of the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about some of the contentious editorial issues at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about the Chicago Tribune's endorsement of President Barack Obama

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses the different roles of the editorial board at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about op-ed process and whom she interacts with in her work day

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her process for choosing op-ed pieces at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about publishing a range of opinions at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about op-ed submissions and finding strong female writers

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Marcia Ann Lythcott gives advice for the writing of op-eds

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses allegations of collusion and conspiracy at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about editorial accountability at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses the Chicago Tribune's relationship with the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her future

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about living in the African American community in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Marcia Ann Lythcott describes what she would have done differently

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Marcia Ann Lythcott reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses diversity at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Marcia Ann Lythcott discusses the NABJ and the Maynard Institute

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about her late husband, Stephen Lythcott

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

11$9

DATitle
Marcia Ann Lythcott talks about reading a lot from a young age
Marcia Ann Lythcott gives advice for the writing of op-eds
Transcript
Okay. So you go from--now were you interested in writing at all as a young--$$Yeah, I was always a big reader. From the very beginning, I just would like to read a lot, and I would--my mother [Florence Watkins] says I would get in trouble every morning because I'd be late getting ready for school because I was reading some book, or I was reading some magazine or I was reading some comic strip, I was just--I was just always--I always enjoyed reading. So, and I think I got that--my parents got the newspaper so I would watch them read the newspaper and then I'd get the comics and sprawl out on the floor and pretend like I could read, but I was probably just looking at the pictures and making up--making up my own story. Or we would get like the Sears catalog or the Penny's catalog and, you know, like flip through that and make up a story about the people who were in the catalog or the furniture, you know, fantasy stuff in your head, yeah.$$I read that your mother read to you a lot.$$I don't know. She liked to read, I mean she liked to read. I don't recall her reading to us a lot, but it's just a habit that we picked up. I mean she liked to read, so we read. My dad read the newspaper every day, so we read the newspaper. My dad would listen to talk radio and the TV--the radio, so we'd listened to talk radio. It's just, you know, whatever habits your parents have, you just sort of pick up. But they didn't force us to read, we just liked to read. So they didn't force us to read, but they'd take us to the library all the time. And they insisted that we get good grades. They paid attention to our education and who our teachers were and so. And they'd buy us books, yeah.$So if I was writing an op-ed and targeting the Tribune [Chicago Tribune] with my op-ed, what advice would you give me, or anyone doing that?$$It would have to be a strong issue. You just have to really think it out. I should know what point you're going to make by the third paragraph. We call that the nut graph. The writing should be bright, it should be crisp, make your point, don't meander, know what you're talking about, be authoritative. It's hard to write an op-ed, actually. And don't use the pronoun I, because nobody cares. You know, unless you're really important, unless you're, you know, a celebrity or [President] Barack Obama, nobody cares what you think. They don't care what I think. That's the mistake a lot of people make as--they start out a piece "I think," and it sounds harsh, but nobody cares.$$I see, okay. That's it, cold hard facts.$$Cold hard facts. And when I tell people that they, you know, when they think about it, then they really get it, you know. And there's a way to write a piece without using that pronoun, you know. You can tell a story and not use the word, "I." So just tell the story, you know. A woman wrote about taking care of her mother who had Alzheimer's and how difficult that was. So, and she never used the pronoun "I." It can be done, but it's hard. It's harder to do it that way. And it's also--people always think like the suggested link for op-eds is like 800 words, so people always like I write to 800 words. Well, sometimes 400 words tells the story, you know, and people will love you for that, so.$$Yeah. A person with a strong opinion, I would guess would well over count it?$$Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people who do satire. A satire actually can be a problem. You have to be really good at satire 'cause people don't get it a lot. So satire is iffy just because it's just hard to execute and people who write humorous pieces, I mean, they tell you joke, after joke, after joke and it's like, yeah, but you told that joke before, you know, it's not funny anymore, so. Humorous and satire pieces are also difficult to pull off.

Milton Coleman

Newspaper editor Milton R. Coleman was born on November 29, 1946 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Coleman grew up in the Hillside Terrace public housing project in Milwaukee. He attended Fourth Street Elementary School and then graduated from Lincoln Junior and Senior High School. Coleman received his B.F.A. degree in music history and literature from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. In 1971, he was named a Southern Education Foundation Fellow. In 1974, Coleman was awarded a fellowship to attend the Michele Clark Summer Program for Minority Journalists at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism.

Coleman began his career in journalism as a reporter for the Milwaukee Courier. He then worked as a reporter and editor for several minority-oriented news outlets, including the African World newspaper in Greensboro, North Carolina; the All-African News Service; WHUR-FM in Washington, D.C.; and the Community News Service of New York. Coleman also worked at a major metropolitan newspaper, the Minneapolis Star, before joining the The Washington Post in 1976 as a reporter on the metropolitan desk where he covered politics and government in Montgomery County, Maryland and the District of Columbia. In 1980, he was promoted to the city editor. Coleman then moved to the national news staff in 1983 where he covered minorities and immigration, the 1984 Presidential campaign, state and local governments, and the U.S. Congress. In 1986, he was hired as the assistant managing editor for the metropolitan news where he directed the newspapers local coverage. In July of 1996, Coleman was promoted to deputy managing editor of The Washington Post.

Coleman is a member of the National Association of Black Journalists, and the Inter-American Press Association. He served as a member of the nominating committee for the Pulitzer Prizes in Journalism and as the chairman of the Seldon Ring Award for Investigative Reporting Judging Committee. In April of 2010, Coleman was elected as the president of the American Society of News Editors; and, in October of 2011, he was elected as the president of Inter-American Press Association. In 2012, Coleman was selected as the inaugural University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Foundation Alumni Fellow.

Milton R. Coleman was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 22, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.125

Sex

Male

Interview Date

5/23/2013

Last Name

Coleman

Maker Category
Marital Status

Divorced

Middle Name

Richard

Occupation
Schools

Columbia University

University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Lincoln High School

Golda Meir Elementary School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Milton

Birth City, State, Country

Milwaukee

HM ID

COL23

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Wisconsin

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

11/29/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Newspaper editor Milton Coleman (1946 - ) was the managing editor of The Washington Post. He also served as president of the American Society of News Editors and the Inter-American Press Association.

Employment

Milwaukee Courier

Student Organization for Black Unity

All African News Service

Community News Service

Minneapolis Star

Washington Post

African World

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:3659,97:8356,259:29220,443:34956,523:54770,727:55430,734:77422,1040:78258,1056:91380,1234:111120,1472:113678,1513:115540,1525:123130,1608:139668,1927:149390,2062:153760,2147:154710,2158:163510,2217:170350,2318:185712,2434:193596,2525:194040,2532:196750,2570$0,0:3145,79:4505,93:5015,100:5610,111:29850,337:30452,349:34666,442:35526,454:65996,856:66408,861:81969,1136:84235,1168:86089,1198:97312,1378:104590,1573:110824,1623:183167,2412:186216,2430:204246,2677:209010,2748:216320,2841:217200,2855:233887,3138:242587,3252:242935,3277:245458,3320:249765,3341:253773,3407:254259,3414:268530,3599:273260,3679:274910,3701:275118,3706:275534,3715:293181,3884:294640,3984
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Milton Coleman's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman remembers his maternal grandfather, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman remembers his maternal grandfather, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman describes his mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman describes his likeness to his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman talks about his father's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Milton Coleman recalls moving to the Hillside Terrace housing projects in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Milton Coleman describes the Hillside Terrace housing project in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman talks about his early experiences of religion

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman talks about the history of the Great Migration, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman talks about the history of Great Migration, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman remembers his experiences in primary and secondary school

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman recalls the basketball team at Lincoln Junior-Senior High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Milton Coleman recalls his primary school mentors

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman describes his early encounters with media and editing

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman talks about the talents of his brother, Jerome.

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman describes his interest in sports when he was young, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman describes his interest in sports when he was young, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman recalls secondary teachers and individuals that inspired him, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman recalls secondary teachers and individuals that inspired him, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman recalls secondary teachers and individuals that inspired him, pt. 3

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Milton Coleman talks about his involvement in organizations as a high school student

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Milton Coleman recalls his honors and awards in high school

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Milton Coleman recalls enrolling at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman talks about Professor Edith Borroff

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman remembers the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman recalls changing his focus to African American ethnomusicology

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman describes his involvement with the black student movement

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman recalls his introduction to journalism

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman remembers writing for Negro Digest

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman recalls his introduction to Hoyt W. Fuller

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Milton Coleman talks about his graduation from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Milton Coleman remembers the assassination of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman recalls directing the Soul Shack program in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman describes his role at the Milwaukee Courier

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman remembers moving to North Carolina

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman talks about the Student Organization for Black Unity

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman remembers moving to Washington, D.C.

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman describes his reasons for founding the All African News Service

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman talks about his early challenges at the All African News Service

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Milton Coleman recalls the reporters and writers at the All African News Service

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Milton Coleman talks about the emergence of black organizations

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman remembers joining the staff of WHUR Radio in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman remembers the Michele Clark Summer Program for Minority Journalists

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman describes his experiences at Columbia University

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman describes his transition to the Minneapolis Star

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman recalls his experiences at the Minneapolis Star

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman describes his decision to join the staff of the Washington Post

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman recalls his start at The Washington Post

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Milton Coleman remembers Washington D.C. Mayor Marion Barry, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - Milton Coleman remembers Washington D.C. Mayor Marion Barry, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Milton Coleman talks about gun violence

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Milton Coleman remembers his promotion to city editor of The Washington Post

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Milton Coleman remembers covering the black community for The Washington Post

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Milton Coleman remembers Janet Cooke's article about a child heroin addict, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Milton Coleman remembers Janet Cooke's article about a child heroin addict, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Milton Coleman recalls his doubts about Janet Cooke's reporting, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Milton Coleman recalls his doubts about Janet Cooke's reporting, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Milton Coleman describes the aftermath of the Janet Cooke scandal

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Milton Coleman talks about the importance of journalistic integrity

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Milton Coleman recalls the impact of the Janet Cooke scandal on his career

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

8$7

DATitle
Milton Coleman talks about his early challenges at the All African News Service
Milton Coleman describes his decision to join the staff of the Washington Post
Transcript
So you just couldn't get the papers to pay their bills on time--now, this is probably, no matter what kind of service you had, it probably would be an issue in the black (unclear) (simultaneous)--$$ (Simultaneous) Yeah. And because of--I mean, that was the beginning of the thing--of the black--of the black press. You know, the black press had been at its high point in the '60s [1960s]. And then as is so frequently the case, once white folks start doing it, the black folks go out of business, you know. And it was always clear to me from my days at the Courier [Milwaukee Courier] that so much of the advertising in the black press at that time was not consumer driven. Then the advertising came primarily out of the public relations budget of the supermarkets. But they weren't really trying to get black folks to buy their cabbage and coleslaw. They were just trying to look good. And even to this day, a lot of advertising toward ethnic publications is not consumer driven. You know, it's public relations driven. And the black press had really been good until white folks started covering the Civil Rights Movement, 'cause up until that time, if you wanted to read about what was happening in the South, you had to read the Chicago Defender and the Afro-American Newspapers; the Atlanta Daily World, you know. The black press told you about the lynchings. The white press did not. And so I was part of the generation, probably on the tail end of the generation of people who came out of the black press into mainline newspapers, you know.$$I've been told not just in journalism, but in many other fields, doors for opportunity, you know, popped up after the '68 [1968] riots.$$ Oh, yeah.$$And (unclear) mean black people who had not even--didn't even dream about being in a riot were able to get a job, you know, in so many fields. They were the first African American--I interviewed the, you know, the first African American to do this or do that, anything you can think of almost.$$ Yeah.$$You know, so. They were actually recruiting people to be a part of like, Newsweek or Time or whatever.$$ If you read the Kerner Commission report on the chapter on the news media, it paints a whole picture of what life was like for black folks in the media at that time. I mean, Carl Rowan was the only black syndicated columnist. The only one, you know. And there were hardly any editors or--because, you know, essentially, white guys cover the Civil Rights Movement, and that was their springboard to higher positions in the news media, you know.$ (Simultaneous) Right. And I, and I wrote a, I wrote a series on Minneapolis finances that became part of my packet that I sent out looking for a job. And so I started looking for a job after I'd been--I had already been turned down by the Dayton Daily News, and turned down by The Philadelphia Inquirer a year earlier. And so I get this letter from the woman who's in charge of recruiting for The Washington Post newsroom, because I had applied for another job in Philadelphia [Pennsylvania]. I put Maynard [Robert C. Maynard] down as a reference, and Maynard had given this woman the clips, and she wanted me to come and interview at The Post. And so I had three interviews set up. One at The Washington Post, thanks to Maynard; one at The Philadelphia Inquirer, and one at the Washington bureau Newsweek. I had these three interviews. And so I come down and do these--all the interviews, and I get back to Minneapolis [Minnesota], so Faye [Coleman's wife, Faye Edwards Coleman] says, "Well, what's the story?" I said, "Well, I have two interviews--I have two job offers. I have one from The Philadelphia Inquirer, and one from The Washington Post." She said, "Which one's the better offer?" I said, "Well, actually The Philadelphia Inquirer has the better offer." She said, "Why?" I said, "Well, if I go to The Washington Post, I'll be covering government and politics in Montgomery County of Maryland. If I go to The Philadelphia Inquirer, I'll be covering the governor." She said, "Where's the governor?" I said, "In Harrisburg [Pennsylvania]." She said, "I hope you have fun." I decided to come to Washington [D.C.] (laughter). But it was a good offer in both places, but she was not about to go to Harrisburg. Wise woman that she was, 'cause Three Mile Island occurred a year or so later. And so that's how I wound up coming to The Post. And I--while I was in Minneapolis, I was mentored by, not only by Maynard, but by Joel Dreyfuss, who later became all kinds of things including the managing editor of theroot.com. But Joel was--I would write stories and send clips of those stories to Joel, and Joel would critique them in a no holds barred way, and Maynard and Austin Scott, who at the time was with The Washington Post, but had been with the Associated Press. And Joel taught me to always be concerned about who your editor is and to try to get an editor who would not only tell you why your story is no good, but would help you understand how to make it better. And I learned that from Joel, and I learned how to write better from Joel, 'cause Joel was--Joel at the time was at The Washington Post, and he was on the style staff and, in fact, when I came down for interviews, I stayed in Joel's apartment in Washington, 'cause I had my interviews in Philadelphia--in Harrisburg on, like, a Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. And my interviews at The Post were, like, on Monday and Tuesday. So I came down to Washington and stayed in Joel's apartment. He was away. And Joel, himself, had been the center of controversy, because he had trapped--he had been on the job as a Los Angeles [California] correspondent for The Post, and had been denied that job in a very public way, 'cause Ben Bradlee wrote a memo to Joel saying that, "Joel, you're a good reporter. Everybody wants a good reporter in Los Angeles, but nobody wants a pain in the ass," and all of that had become public. And so when I came down here, I told Joel. I said, you know, "Joel, if I'm offered a job at The Post, I'm not so sure I'd take it." And Joel said, "Why?" And I said, "Well, because of what went down between you and Bradlee." And Joel said, "You'd be a fool if you do that. What happened between me and Bradlee is between me and Bradlee." And Joel said very prophetically, "You might be able to do things at The Washington Post that I could never do." So with that advice from Joel and the sage advice of my wife (laughter), I came to The Washington Post.

Mary C. Curtis

Newspaper editor and news correspondent Mary C. Curtis was born on September 4, 1953 in Baltimore, Maryland. She was the youngest of five children born to Thomas Curtis and Evelyn Curtis. After graduating from Seton High School in Baltimore, Maryland in 1971, she enrolled at Fordham University in New York City and graduated form there in 1975 with her B.A. degree in communications. In 2006, Curtis was awarded a Nieman Fellowship from Harvard University.

From 1985 through 1994, Curtis served in a variety of editing positions at The New York Times, including as editor of “Home, Education, Life” and “The Living Arts,” a section in the National Edition that she helped to develop. She also served as the Features editor for the Arts and Entertainment section at The Sun in Baltimore. In addition, Curtis held positions as a reporter and as an editor with The Associated Press in New York, Hartford, Connecticut and with the Arizona in Tucson, Arizona. She also contributed news articles to TheRoot.com, theGrio.com, National Public Radio Creative Loafing , and served as a national correspondent for AOL’s PoliticsDaily.com. In 2011, she joined the The Washington Post as a contributor for the blog, “She the People.” She covered the 2012 Democratic National Convention for The Charlotte Observer.

Curtis is a member the National Association of Black Journalists. Curtis received the Carmage Walls Prize in 2005 for commentary in a competition sponsored by the Southern Newspaper Publishers Association. She is the recipient of several Green Eyeshade Awards from the Society of Professional Journalists and The National Association of Black Journalists (NABJ). The North Carolina Associated Press recognized Curtis with the Thomas Wolfe Award for her writing “My Rebel Journey,” an examination of Civil War heritage groups. She received the Clarion Award from the Association for Women in Communications in 2010 and 2012. Curtis was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Region IV National Association of Black Journalists in 2004.

Curtis and her husband, Martin F. Olsen, live in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Mary C. Curtis was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 8, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.156

Sex

Female

Interview Date

5/8/2013

Last Name

Curtis

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

C.

Schools

Harvard University

Fordham University

The Seton Keough High School

St. Pius V Elementary School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Mary

Birth City, State, Country

Baltimore

HM ID

CUR05

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Maryland

Favorite Vacation Destination

St. Tropez

Favorite Quote

To whom much is given, much is required.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

North Carolina

Birth Date

9/4/1953

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Charlotte

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fish

Short Description

Newspaper editor, newspaper correspondent, and newspaper columnist Mary C. Curtis (1953 - ) former reporter for The Baltimore Sun and editor at The New York Times, was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the Region IV NABJ.

Employment

Washington Post

Creative Loafing Atlanta

Fox Charlotte

AOL

Grio, The

CNN

Charlotte Observer

New York Times

Baltimore Sun

Arizona Daily Star

Associated Press (AP)

Traveler's Insurance, Co.

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:40,5:2977,63:3333,68:6181,126:33248,362:33536,527:33968,534:34472,542:36056,571:42850,624:43186,629:44950,659:50662,775:51082,781:58390,928:68547,1019:72490,1072:73190,1083:75360,1128:91020,1404:92220,1431:92700,1438:93580,1455:93900,1460:94220,1465:94540,1470:96220,1504:96780,1512:99260,1548:119904,1909:121679,1950:122389,1961:122673,1966:123099,1974:133252,2205:139871,2232:159570,2565:175006,2868:179077,3005:182941,3111:183355,3121:190462,3355:205550,3566:205922,3572:208619,3630:214523,3667:215910,3687:216494,3697:218684,3749:220436,3822:221093,3836:221750,3850:222261,3858:222626,3864:228393,4063:228685,4092:232627,4162:238628,4191:239167,4202:239552,4208:246174,4308:247329,4389:259042,4587:261014,4634:270545,4698:270940,4704:271256,4709:272836,4729:280847,4854:284059,4923:285884,4957:291604,5015:303965,5229:312470,5342$0,0:14222,224:19040,339:19436,346:23396,437:29616,498:30327,523:39096,665:46020,738:46980,784:47540,792:54442,929:54988,938:58853,984:60313,1020:61919,1065:62503,1119:79770,1441:80288,1452:80732,1460:81028,1465:81768,1481:85394,1567:86726,1605:87466,1634:87762,1639:88576,1655:88946,1661:94451,1685:94877,1695:95232,1726:100880,1786:101430,1792:109720,1875:116804,2006:118421,2025:119268,2047:119730,2054:120346,2093:120885,2101:132435,2390:140634,2463:141162,2473:142086,2495:142812,2508:143274,2518:144462,2539:145980,2571:147696,2635:148818,2659:152870,2694:163830,2893:164950,2925:179287,3157:179563,3162:181150,3195:181564,3202:181978,3208:182530,3217:183013,3226:183979,3242:184807,3253:195334,3348:195778,3355:202612,3481:213170,3612:213716,3620:215432,3645:218474,3701:228546,3853:228818,3858:229226,3865:230518,3903:230994,3911:231470,3920:232014,3930:234870,3995:235550,4007:238950,4087:243900,4136:245580,4181:258382,4408:259042,4419:259570,4428:266416,4554:277600,4702
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Mary C. Curtis

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis describes her mother's family history

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her maternal great-grandmother, who was born into slavery

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis recalls her mother's upbringing in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis continues to describe her mother's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis describes her father's family background and her father's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Mary C. Curtis describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Mary C. Curtis lists her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Mary C. Curtis describes being the youngest of five children

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis recalls her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis describes her neighborhood in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis describes the sights, sounds, and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis remembers being on the television show 'Romper Room'

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis describes her elementary school, St. Pius the Fifth, run by the Oblate nuns

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis recounts how books influenced her as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis describes her impressions of her family's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Mary C. Curtis shares her love of the Arts and how the Arts have shaped her life and career

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Mary C. Curtis talks about Seton High School, an integrated Catholic high school in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis discusses her experiences at Seton High School in Baltimore, Maryland

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis remembers attending her fortieth high school class reunion

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis shares her memories attending Fordham University in New York City

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis recalls meeting her husband at Fordham University

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her favorite professors and guest speakers at Fordham University

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis reflects on her family's upward mobility

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis discusses the journalists she admired in the 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Mary C. Curtis describes working with the Associated Press after graduation from Fordham University, New York

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis describes how she was treated as a young black female reporter in the 1970s

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis describes taking a break from journalism during the years of 1977-1981

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis recalls attending the Maynard Institute for Journalism Education in 1981

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her experience in Tucson, Arizona from 1981-1983

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis describes being a black female journalist in the 1980s

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis shares some memories of living and working in Tucson, Arizona

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis describes moving back to the East Coast and working at The Baltimore Sun in 1983

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Mary C. Curtis talks about joining the National Association of Black Journalists in 1984

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis talks about diversity and the benefits of being involved with the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis talks about the importance of diversity of views in news stories

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her work at the Baltimore Sun

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis describes her transition to the New York Times

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis describes moving to Charlotte, North Carolina to work for the Charlotte Observer

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her son, Zane, and the move to Charlotte, North Carolina from New York

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis describes the vibrancy of Charlotte, North Carolina

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her Neiman Foundation Fellowship at Harvard University in 2005, part 1

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her Neiman Foundation Fellowship at Harvard University in 2005, part 2

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her Neiman Foundation Fellowship at Harvard University in 2005, part 3

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Mary C. Curtis describes her return to Charlotte, North Carolina after her 2006 year at Harvard University

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her 2004 Thomas Wolfe award-winning article

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis talks about the aftermath of her Thomas-Wolfe award winning article in 2004

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her coverage of the 2007-2008 primary elections

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis recalls covering the 2008 elections and interviewing President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis talks about being laid off at the Charlotte Observer in 2008 and her journalism work since then

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis talks about how she covers conservative news stories

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her journalistic philosophy

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Mary C. Curtis talks about interviewing Franklin McCain of North Carolina

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Mary C. Curtis describes her different journalist affiliations

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Mary C. Curtis describes the arts events she covered

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Mary C. Curtis talks about her family and her son, Zane

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Mary C. Curtis talks about the future

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Mary C. Curtis talks about being on 'Jeopardy'

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Mary C. Curtis describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Mary C. Curtis narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$6

DAStory

2$4

DATitle
Mary C. Curtis talks about diversity and the benefits of being involved with the National Association of Black Journalists
Mary C. Curtis talks about her coverage of the 2007-2008 primary elections
Transcript
Now, this is something I hear from a lot of black journalists, that they really feel, there's a particular kind of loneliness working at a white newspaper, basically, where you just don't have the--they feel, you know, it takes a lot of stamina to, you know, to stay, you know, withstand it, I guess, and you know, that's what I--that's what people keep saying, that it's a lot of pressure (unclear) (simultaneous)-$$Well, I'm not sure I'd use the word stamina as much as, you know, you are, you're doing your job, but say, if you're talking about news judgment or how a story is played or you wanna make sure that when you have people of color in the paper, that you--I'm in features. So most of the minorities you would see on the pages are in Metro or news, when they're doing something or is the face of welfare or poor people or--I mean not always. But it's usually news. And to me, I love features because it humanizes people. And you have the universal experiences. We all garden, we all cook, we all go to church. We have these experiences we share, so it's especially important that minorities are represented in stories in the food section, in the feature section, in the faith section, you know, all of these--in the entertainment section, and all of these sections. So you see people doing the same things you do. When you have a home story that is about a minority family in a home, these kinds of things. So you're always trying to make sure that happens, to make sure if you do a feature story, say, on romance, on couples, that there's diversity, and not just diversity of race, but of income level, of geography, so you're not just picking people from some part of the city, certain neighborhoods, of age. So if you have a romance story, maybe older people, and so you're mindful of that. But when you're making that, you're making that case every day in the newsroom, and you are doing your job and trying to make people understand that this is just not an extra to be put in a story, but it makes the story more complete and more accurate. So it's good journalism, and sometimes that's pressure because people are under deadline pressure. People, of course, relate more to people like themselves, so when you are alone in the newspaper or in any media organization, you're it or there's a few of you. So it is, I would say it's not stamina, but it's every day, it's--it takes energy. It takes energy, and I do think, you know, people kid about the parties at NABJ [National Association of Black Journalists], but part of it is the relaxation of being there and of knowing, when you say--it's, you're talking in a shorthand because when you say, I was trying to convince my editor, and they say, oh, I know, you know (laughter). So it's a meeting, you don't have to explain yourself. You don't have to be anyone but yourself. And I think there's a certain comfort level in that. It's the people, the way, reason people belong to any club. And I think a misnomer when people say, well, we, there's no national organization of white journalists. Well, first of all there're people of every color that belong to NABJ [National Association of Black Journalists]. White people do belong to it, Hispanic people, it's, if you believe in the mission of diversity. So it's not an exclusive organization. It's an inclusive organization, just like NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] or any of those organizations. It is inclusive. It's about the message, and it's just nice knowing you're with people that, people who, that particular message is important to those people. And so, yeah, I think it is relaxing, and when, that very last night before you come back, there usually is a dance. And there's music and people are dancing, and it is a release of sorts. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. You know, you've worked hard, you're--you know, even at NABJ [National Association of Black Journalists], you're wearing your business clothes. You never know who you're gonna run into, that give you a future job. You're going to the job fairs. So it's about business and it's about skills development, but it's also about being with folks, you know, who--I like to say it is a shorthand. And it's about catching up with people that you haven't seen for a while because the nature of the business is that you travel to different places. You get a job here or there. So it's saying, oh, my goodness, you know. I haven't seen you. You're working in Detroit [Michigan] now, that kind of thing. So I, it's work and it's therapy (laughter). We all need that, so I agree, I agree. It's, you know, I've never--I don't think that newspapers or media organizations are any more discriminatory or whatever as any part of society. But I do think sometimes we have to emphasize that they are, indeed, a part of society. So it's not as though the people who work there--I do think sometimes journalists think, we don't have those problems because we're more open minded than that. Well, the people are human beings. When you go into the door of whatever organization, you don't drop society's roles. You don't drop any prejudices at the door because you're a journalist. You hope to, and you work at it, but we all bring something to it. So that's a part of it.$And Ed Sanders was just--and later, they made him the principal of the school, a white school that--and he hired the first black teacher there, B.B. Delaine, I think, who was the son of the Reverend Delaine of the Clarendon County case in South Carolina that was part of the 'Brown v. Board of Education' [1954]. So there's so much Civil Rights history here. But it's, you're right, you know. It, sometimes it takes a lot, but if you just say, "I'm gonna do what I have to do." So he taught me something, but I was--so that was in the '[Charlotte] Observer' too, and then when the South Carolina primaries happened in 2000--started going in 2007, I went to the debate in South Carolina, the first Democratic debate. And I saw on the stage, [President] Barack Obama and [Senator] Hillary Clinton and [Senator] John Edwards and [Governor] Bill Richardson and all these folks, [Senator] Joe Biden, I thought, you know, this is gonna be something. This is gonna be something. So I really hadn't been that involved in politics, but, you know, sometimes you see a story and you gotta grab a hold of it. And you go to that debate and then you go to the Republican debate, and you have to, you need a cheat sheet because they all look the same, you know, well, you know who [Mayor Rudy] Giuliani and [Senator John] McCain and [Governor Mitt] Romney are, but, and you realize how different it's gonna be, and this is gonna be historic. So I just got a hold of that story, tried to make it mine, got the paper's first two interviews with [President] Barack Obama, the only interview with [Senator] Hillary Clinton, followed [Governor] Mike Huckabee around South Carolina, just tried to tell that story, and that--tried to tell that story, tried to tell it.$$Now, this is a campaign that North Carolina's favorite son, [Senator] John Edwards, kind of went down and the--he had issues with his marriage and all that got in the press and-$$Yeah, although, not at the beginning there. I mean in 2000--the 2008 campaign, remember that famous debate in Myrtle Beach [South Carolina] where [Senator] Hillary Clinton and [President] Barack Obama were going at each other, and their supporters were in front with dueling cards. And [Senator] John Edwards was sort of the peacemaker.$$Oh, sure, John Edwards was-$$So calm.$$--a favorite of a lot of people, you know-$$Yeah, and then there were some people who thought, "Well, this isn't gonna be the time for a woman or a minority, that the Democrat--he would be the white guy Democrat that people come back to" because, remember that was the year after [President George W.] Bush where it was such a prime year for a Democrat. So, that's why a lot of people got frustrated when what came out, came out because if he had gotten it, of course, it would have come out, and that would have totally ruined it for it. But, yeah, it was obviously, another great time to be a journalist. Even though North Carolina's primary was late, it actually counted. But I initially covered the--South Carolina is one of the first in the South. So I got to go down there and write columns off of the appearances, see [Presdient] Bill Clinton just hang out and go out around South Carolina with the Republicans and Democrats, watch a Baptist minister bless [Governor] Mike Huckabee and, you know, all of that. It was, I really liked to see the--my piece, my column started to be on the intersection of all of these things, to look at it, and to see the culture piece in the campaigns because what are debates, but political theater? So when you're in a Republican debate and they're talking about torture and all of them are, you know, Romney's, I'm pro-Guantanamo, let's expand it, and, you know, you have [Representative] Tom Tancredo talk about, you know, Jack Ry[an], you know, "Send in the guy from '24'" and [Senator] John McCain says, "You know, we shouldn't torture because it's not about who they are. It's about who we are." And no one applauds, and you realize the only guy against it on the stage is the guy who's been tortured. So that's the story. You know, so it's finding that piece of, looking at it and saying, wow, you know. To watch Oprah [Winfrey] appearing with [President Barack] Obama in South Carolina in a stadium. It was just covering the scene. And I went on to Denver, not for the '[Charlotte] Observer', actually. They didn't send me to the Democratic National Convention. But I got a chance to go and I went and covered for Neiman [Foundation], wouldn't have missed it, went on my own time. That's when the papers were cutting back. I was starting to see the writing on the wall. So, although, you know, it was a great experience.

Melvin Miller

Newspaper publisher and editor Melvin B. Miller was born on July 22, 1934 in Boston, Massachusetts. Miller grew up in Boston’s middle-class Roxbury neighborhood and graduated from Boston Latin School. He then enrolled at Harvard College and graduated from there in 1956 with his A.B. degree. Following a six month stint as an executive trainee at Aetna Insurance in Hartford, Connecticut, Miller was drafted and served for two years in the U.S. Army. He went on to enroll at Columbia University Law School and earned his J.D. degree from there in 1964. Miller was admitted to the Massachusetts Bar and the Federal Bar.

Upon graduation, Miller joined the U.S. Department of Justice as an Assistant U.S. Attorney for the District of Massachusetts. In 1965, he founded the Bay State Banner and served as the newspaper’s publisher, editor, and chief executive officer. In 1973, the Massachusetts Banking Commission appointed Miller as the conservator and chief executive officer of the Unity Bank and Trust Company, Boston’s first minority bank. In 1977, Boston Mayor Kevin W. White named him as one of the three commissioners of the Boston Water and Sewer Commission. Miller became Chairman of the Commission in 1980. Miller then became a founding partner in the corporate law firm of Fitch, Miller, and Tourse where he practiced law from 1981 to 1991. He also served as the vice president and general counsel of WHDH-TV, an affiliate of the Central Broadcasting Station, from 1982 to 1993. Miller was a director of the United States-South Africa Leadership Exchange Program (USSALEP). He has written editorials for The Boston Globe, The Pilot, and Boston Magazine, and is the author of How to Get Rich When You Ain’t Got Nothing.

Miller is a member of Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity, Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, the Harvard Club of Boston, and the St. Botolph Club. Miller is a director of OneUnited Bank and MassINC. He is also a trustee of the Huntington Theatre Company and a trustee emeritus of Boston University.

Miller received the Award of Excellence from the Art Director’s Club of Boston in 1970. The New England Press Association awarded Miller the First Prize in General Excellence and the Second Prize in Make-up & Typography in 1970. Miller is a recipient of the Annual Achievement Award from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored people. Miller received an Honorary Doctor of Humane Letters degree from Suffolk University in 1984 and an Honorary Doctor Humane Letters degree from Emerson College in 2010.

Melvin B. Miller was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 24, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.162

Sex

Male

Interview Date

4/24/2013 |and| 4/27/2013

Last Name

Miller

Maker Category
Middle Name

B.

Occupation
Schools

Boston Latin School

Harvard University

Columbia Law School

David A. Ellis Elementary School

Henry Lee Higginson Elementary School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Melvin

Birth City, State, Country

Boston

HM ID

MIL09

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Massachusetts

Favorite Vacation Destination

None

Favorite Quote

God Dwells Within You As You.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Massachusetts

Birth Date

7/22/1934

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Boston

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Newspaper editor Melvin Miller (1934 - ) was the founder, publisher and editor of the Bay State Banner, a weekly newspaper advocating the interests of Greater Boston’s African American community.

Employment

The Bay State Banner

Unity Bank and Trust Company

Fitch, Miller & Touse

WHDH TV, Channel 7

United States Department of Justice

Aetna Life & Casualty

NYC insurance company

Public Schools

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Melvin Miller's interview, session 1

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller talks about his maternal grandfather's musical background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller describes his maternal grandmother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller talks about his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller talks about the African American community in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller describes his mother's upbringing

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller talks about his Uncle Charlie

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller describes his father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller talks about his paternal grandmother

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller describes his family connection to the black loyalist colony in Nova Scotia, Canada

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller describes his father's career at the U.S. Post Office Department

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller talks about his parents' relationship

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller lists his siblings

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller describes his experiences at Henry L. Higginson Elementary School in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller remembers the Washington Park neighborhood of Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller remembers his high school classmate, Minister Louis Farrakhan

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller describes his experiences at the Boston Latin School in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller talks about the academic rigor of the Boston Latin School

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller recalls the prevalence of bullying at the Boston Latin School

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller recalls his experiences at the St. Mark Congregational Church in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller remembers his extracurricular activities at the Boston Latin School

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller remembers his SAT scores

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller describes his involvement with the NAACP in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller recalls his classmates at Harvard University, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller recalls his classmates at Harvard University, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller talks about the H-Block Gang

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller describes his experiences at Harvard University

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller talks about his academic difficulties at Harvard University

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller talks about the African American faculty at Harvard University

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller talks about Edward Brooke's political career, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller talks about Edward Brooke's political career, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller describes the African American community at Harvard University

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller remembers his graduation from Harvard University

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller describes how he came to work at the Aetna Life and Casualty Company in Hartford, Connecticut

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller talks about his U.S. military service

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller talks about his maternal family's German ancestry

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller recalls his decision to attend Columbia Law School in New York City

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller remembers investigating insurance claims in New York City's Harlem neighborhood

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller recalls a confrontation with the New York City Police Department, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller recalls a confrontation with the New York City Police Department, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller remembers Adolf A. Berle, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller remembers Adolf A. Berle, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller recalls becoming an assistant U.S. attorney general

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Melvin Miller talks about the founding of the Bay State Banner

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Slating of Melvin Miller's interview, session 2

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller describes the start of the Bay State Banner

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller remembers Charles Stewart

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller talks about William Monroe Trotter

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller remembers the early years of the Bay State Banner

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller recalls the first editor of the Bay State Banner

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller describes the political climate of the 1960s

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller talks about the Moynihan Report of 1965, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller talks about the Moynihan Report of 1965, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller talks about the urban renewal program in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller talks about Edward Brooke's early election losses

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller recalls the start of Operation Exodus in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller remembers the busing crisis in Boston, Massachusetts, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller remembers Louise Day Hicks

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller remembers the busing crisis in Boston, Massachusetts, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller remembers the violence during the desegregation of the Boston Public Schools

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller recalls the opening of the William Monroe Trotter School in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller talks about the Bay State Banner's audience

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller describes the Bay State Banner's financial challenges

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller remembers the demonstration at the Grove Hall welfare center in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller describes his efforts to increase black representation in the media

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller recalls his involvement with the Unity Bank and Trust Company, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller recalls his involvement with the Unity Bank and Trust Company, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller describes his role in the standardization of the welfare system

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller talks about the construction of the State Street Bank Building in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller recalls running for U.S. Representative from Massachusetts in 1972

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller recalls founding the law firm of Fitch, Miller and Tourse

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller talks about the Bay State Banner's competitors

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller describes his involvement with WHDH-TV in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller remembers partnering with Jobs Clearing House, Inc.

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller describes his support for minority hiring at the New England Telephone and Telegraph Company

Tape: 10 Story: 9 - Melvin Miller recalls serving as general counsel to WHDH-TV in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 10 Story: 10 - Melvin Miller talks about the Bay State Banner's website

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller describes the staff of the Bay State Banner

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller talks about the National Newspaper Publishers Association

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller describes his involvement with the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller talks about the impact of the internet on the newspaper industry

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller describes his plans for the future of the Bay State Banner

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Melvin Miller recalls his mentorship of young men in Boston, Massachusetts

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Melvin Miller talks about the problems in the education system

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - Melvin Miller remembers his mentorship of Tony Rose

Tape: 11 Story: 9 - Melvin Miller describes his concerns for the African American community

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Melvin Miller describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - Melvin Miller reflects upon his life

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - Melvin Miller describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - Melvin Miller talks about his family

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - Melvin Miller reflects upon his legacy

DASession

1$2

DATape

6$10

DAStory

5$8

DATitle
Melvin Miller recalls a confrontation with the New York City Police Department, pt. 2
Melvin Miller describes his support for minority hiring at the New England Telephone and Telegraph Company
Transcript
So they formed a circle around me and pulled out their clubs and decided they were gonna beat me down. I said, "Wait a minute, before you do anything, I want you to know that I submit peacefully to arrest. And if you have a--if I violated a criminal law and you wanna arrest me, I submit peacefully to arrest. You have that? It's a clear statement right now. I'm not resisting arrest. Do you wanna arrest me?" They didn't even answer that. Then they started swinging their clubs, and then I--that's when my karate went into effect. It would--I'll never forget this. Is a--it was a--it was probably the most extensive use--one of the most extensive uses I've ever--I ever had to make of it, and--but I had a strategy. And I said first of all, I'm, I'm not gonna hurt these guys because some fool will pull a gun, and once the gun comes out everything goes wild. So what I did is I just took a stand. And I know how to move and prevent them from striking me, and I might just use my hand to push them off or something. There had to be four to six cops. No, there were more than four. There must have been the six 'cause there, there, there were lots of 'em, and it was amazing. If, if you watch them, it was almost like the keystone ca- police 'cause they were falling all over themselves 'cause I would--I mean, I--you know, to tell you the truth, I was pretty good, you know. And so I started--you know, I moved and they fell all over the place. Now I told them that I was waiting for a friend, and then while this fight was going on she came out. She said, "Oh my god! What's going on here?" And I said to her, "They didn't believe, didn't believe you were coming" (laughter). And so it was funny. These--half of the policemen were on the ground because they took a swing at me inbalance- you know, when you take a swing sometimes at a person you think you're gonna hit, you put too much weight on it and you don't hit; you keep going. Well that--a lot of that happened. And so there were two still standing, and the other policeman--I said--I walked by him and I said, "Why'd you allow something--," I said, "somebody could have really been hurt here." And they looked at me, didn't say anything, and I left. But isn't that awful? But guess what? I had in my breast pocket the federal department of justice [U.S. Department of Justice] identification with my photo and everything. What do you think would have happened if I'd have shown that to the first policeman? He'd have backed up, said, "Sorry, Mr. Miller [HistoryMaker Melvin Miller]." I said--but I identified with my brother too much. I said the man in the street doesn't have these things, and you don't have to show all this identification to be able to walk the streets (unclear). I had a three piece suit on. What did I look like, a thug? Come on. And I, I--you know, I just simply wasn't gonna tolerate it. And so--and if, if necessary I would have hurt them rather than let them hurt me.$$Well, some of the stories out of New--New York [New York] are--you know.$$Yeah.$$You, you might have been lucky that you didn't get shot, you know, but.$$Well, they were lucky because I don't think they could have beaten me. I mean, you, you had to remember, I was a younger man, you know. I was not the old man you're looking at, at that time (laughter). But that just shows the kind of world we live in and, and I was gonna--I was gonna--I was, I was sort of hoping in a sense that I would get arrested all the way down. And then--what, what--if--once I got arrested, I would--they would have had to come up with a charge. Then I'd laid it on 'em. I said, "Okay." I'd call the press. All of a sudden we got a lawsuit.$Another aspect that was really important at that time is a telephone company, New England Telephone [New England Telephone and Telegraph Company], which is now Verizon [Verizon New England, Inc.], didn't have any blacks at all in any serious position in the company. There was one guy I know who might have been some kind of engineer in the office, but it was a totally all white organization. But what had happened is that the, the chairman was about to retire, and he was terrified because somebody had filed an antidiscrimination lawsuit against Southern Bell [Southern Bell Telephone and Telegraph Company; AT&T Inc.]. Now, telephone companies have to--telephone companies have to get approval and get licenses from the FCC [Federal Communications Commission], which imposes certain nondiscrimination rules and regulations against them. So he thought that sin- the situation was bad up here that it was just inevitable that somebody would come and bring a campaign. So I took adva- took advantage of this and met with them, and we started running a campaign to, to begin to hire blacks. And the most amazing thing is that when I first did it, I had a delegation of blacks come to my office and tell me that, that it was an abomination that I would run ads [in the Bay State Banner] from the New England telephone company when I should have known they don't hire blacks. And I, I said, "Yeah, but," I said, "we're going to now." He said, "No, what they're doing now is they're just--they're just trying to cover their butts and, and you guys are gonna make some money and make us look foolish. We go down there, they'll turn us out." And I said, "No, they won't, so we'll go down together and, and we'll set up employment offices." So I went down and said, "Look, you gotta set up employment offices in the black community; you guys have created a situation which is very bad," talking to the telephone company. And they understood it and they did it. The only--the only sad thing about it is that the campaign was so effective that it wasn't long before they found it unnecessary to run those big ads (laughter). I guess they found it unnecessary to run those big ads anymore and so we lost that revenue. But to show you how severe the resistance is, the whites' unions who are running the company at the levels that we are trying to get people employed, those white unions went on--they took a strike, rather than agree to the terms of--see, what they had done is they set up an employment ladder where you had to start at this level and then move up to A to B, C, D, and then you move up. We, we, we rejected that and I insisted that the company reject that, because I said you have to take in people who are qualified who had collater- had collateral experience at some other place. They don't have to be at the telephone company. Let's say they came from another telephone company doing the same thing. According to your system, they'd still have to start at this low level. That's crazy. And so that's, that's how we had to break the union to do this, and, and the union took a strike. The interesting thing is that when the Boston [Massachusetts] papers wrote about it, they never understood the nature of the strike. They never got it right. Now, I didn't write about it in the right kind of way because it would have been impolitic. You know what I mean? I would have had to--it, it, it would have--it would have held the telephone company up to a line of criticism, which we were--we had already moved beyond. The executives didn't care about it because it didn't affect them. But once it was really pointed out to them, they were willing to take a strike to stop it, and I wasn't--you, you see what I mean?$$Okay.$$So this--so that was--to me, there was a lot of work like that changing the environment in Boston that, that we were able to do.

Eunice Trotter

Newspaper owner and nonprofit chief executive Eunice Trotter received her A.S. degree in journalism from Indiana University-Southeast in 1976 and her B.S. degree in journalism in 1981. Trotter returned to school at Webster International University and graduated from there in 2002 with her M.B.A. degree.

Trotter was the first African American woman to serve as an editor for the Indianapolis Star, the largest daily paper in the State of Indiana. She purchased the Indianapolis Recorder in 1987 and served as editor-in-chief and publisher until 1991. Trotter also worked as a reporter for the Stockton Record and the New York Post. She has held several other editorial positions, including zones editor for Florida Today, associate editor at The News-Sentinel, and courts editor with The Palm Beach Post. In 2005, Trotter founded Mary Bateman Clark Enterprises, where she has worked to incorporate the history of African Americans in Indiana into mainstream U.S. history. She became a communications specialist for American Senior Communities in 2011.

Trotter served on the Board of the Indiana Journalism Hall of Fame. In addition to numerous other awards, she was recognized for her professional accomplishments by the Indianapolis, Indiana Chapter of the Young Women’s Christian Association with their Salute to Women of Achievement Award.

Trotter is working on publishing a book, Mary Bateman Clark: A Woman of Color and Courage.

Eunice Trotter was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 7, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.117

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/7/2013

Last Name

Trotter

Maker Category
Occupation
Schools

Indiana University Southeast

Martin University

Webster University

Arsenal Technical High School

John Hope School 26

Shortridge High School

William A. Bell School 60

Paul C. Stetson School 76

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Eunice

Birth City, State, Country

Indianapolis

HM ID

TRO01

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Indiana

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

If You Don't Have A Hammer, Use A Shoe.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Indiana

Birth Date

6/15/1953

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Indianapolis

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Spaghetti

Short Description

Newspaper editor Eunice Trotter (1953 - ) was the first African American woman to own the Indiana Recorder and the first African American woman to serve as an editor at the Indianapolis Star.

Employment

Mary Bateman Clark Enterprises

Indianapolis Reader

Stockton Record

Florida Today

New York Post

News Sentinel

Indianapolis Star

Palm Beach Post

American Senior Communicates

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Eunice Trotter's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter talks about her mother's experiences in Indiana

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter talks about Mary Bateman Clark's lawsuit against indentured servitude, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter talks about Mary Bateman Clark's lawsuit against indentured servitude, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter talks about the Harrison family

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Eunice Trotter reflects upon the legacy of Mary Bateman Clark

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter talks about her father's black separatist views

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter describes her community in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter talks about the history of Crispus Attucks High School in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter talks about the impact of racism on memory

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter talks about her parents' marriage

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter lists her siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Eunice Trotter talks about her father's alcoholism and her work to support the family

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Eunice Trotter describes the black community in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Eunice Trotter talks about her early experiences of religion

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter talks about her religious affiliation

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter remembers John Hope School 26 in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter talks about her father's knowledge of Mary Bethune Clark

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter talks about her biggest influences at John Hope School 26 in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter remembers her childhood asthma

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter talks about her family's involvement in journalism

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter remembers household entertainment

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter describes her schooling

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Eunice Trotter recalls the challenges of moving to a new school

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Eunice Trotter remembers the Klu Klux Klan and the Black Panthers recruitment at her high school

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Eunice Trotter remembers her teachers at Arsenal Technical High School in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 3 Story: 12 - Eunice Trotter remembers her mother's work in domestic service

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter remembers her Teen Talk gossip column

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter talks about her decision to become a writer

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter recalls running for the high school track team

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter remembers singing with the Soulettes

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter recalls meeting her first husband

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter talks about The Invaders youth organization

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter remembers Robert F. Kennedy's speech after the assassination of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter recalls her graduation from Arsenal Technical High School in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Eunice Trotter remembers securing a reporting positon at the Indianapolis Recorder

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Eunice Trotter talks about her interest in covering crime

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter remembers her work as a crime reporter for the Indianapolis Recorder

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter remembers her start at the Indianapolis Star

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter talks about her experience working with the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter remembers Reginald Bishop

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter remembers the early meetings of the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter remembers Martin Center College in Indianapolis, Indiana

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter describes how she became the owner of the Indianapolis Recorder

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter reflects upon her decision to return to the Indianapolis Recorder

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter talks about her tenure as the owner of the Indianapolis Recorder, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter talks about her tenure as the owner of the Indianapolis Recorder, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter recalls her decision to sell the Indianapolis Recorder

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter describes her philosophy of journalism

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter talks about her freelance journalism

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter remembers the O.J. Simpson verdict

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter talks about her articles in the New York Post

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter remembers joining the staff of Florida Today

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter talks about the community of Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter recalls covering the Burmese population in Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter remembers becoming the editor of the Indianapolis Star

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter reflects upon the state of journalism, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter reflects upon the state of journalism, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter talks about her favorite newspapers

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter talks about the need for a multicultural news portal

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter talks about the consolidation of journalism

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Eunice Trotter describes her oral history project, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Eunice Trotter describes her oral history project, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Eunice Trotter talks about the Mary Bateman Clark Project

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Eunice Trotter talks about the founding of the Indianapolis Recorder

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Eunice Trotter reflects upon her life

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Eunice Trotter reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Eunice Trotter describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Eunice Trotter talks about her family

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Eunice Trotter talks about her amateur bowling career

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Eunice Trotter describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Eunice Trotter narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

5$8

DAStory

7$1

DATitle
Eunice Trotter describes how she became the owner of the Indianapolis Recorder
Eunice Trotter talks about the Mary Bateman Clark Project
Transcript
I'm not trying to go too fast here, but, but in 1987 you become the owner, editor, and publisher of the Recorder [Indianapolis Recorder]--$$Yes.$$--is that? So, how, how did that come about, and what were--how were you getting along at the Star [Indianapolis Star], and did that have anything to do with it or was it just an opportunity or what?$$Well, in 1986, I had--well, actually in '85 [1985], I'd started a syndicate. My belief was that, media wanted content of interest to African Americans, but did not have the staffing to provide it. That was my belief. And I began to recruit writers around the country to be content providers, and I began marketing this work to newspapers, mainstream newspapers. Now, the work included cartoon strips, columns; that kind of work, some games, puzzles, that were Afrocentric, and I marketed this, but I found that the papers that we were subscribing to were not the mainstream papers. They was the black weeklies that wanted it and subscribed to it. So I had picked up quite a few subscriptions from weeklies. And we operated much like any syndicate, King Syndicate [King Features Syndicate, Inc.]. In fact, there was a syndicate that had a name real similar to ours, but had far more resources than we had. Ours was called Syndicated Writers and Artists [Syndicated Writers and Artists, Inc.]. And the big one was Syndicated Artists and Writers [ph.]. (Laughter). So. We provided the content. A lot of newspapers couldn't pay us on time, so we grew our company by including collections persons to help us get the money that the newspapers owed us. And the business grew, and I had to make a choice here. Do I continue working for the Star or do I, you know, strike out on my own. And so I did, I struck out on my own, and I found that once I left full time employment, more opportunities opened up for me, but it wasn't related to the syndicate. There were these opportunities were companies wanting PR [public relations] service; you know, "Can you do news releases?" So I formed a PR component of the business, and it--soon really, it became the overwhelming part of the business that kept us going. So we had clients like, Indiana Black Expo. We did the publicity, the PR for the Indiana Black Expo, Madam Walker [Madam C.J. Walker], Wilma Rudolph, she was a client, and on. I won't try to name everybody that worked with us. We started in my house, and we moved into an office building, and we moved into a bigger office space. And then I got a call from the Recorder. George Thompson [George J. Thompson] was the manager. By then, Mr. Stewart [Marcus Stewart, Sr.] had died, and he wanted to know if I would come and help him manage the newsroom, because they were having issues there. So we worked out an arrangement where I would set my business down inside of the Recorder. So part of the physical facility of the Recorder was devoted to my own business. And they gave us office space for that. So I had staffing for that, and then I set out to help manage the Recorder. And soon the Recorder became the dominant presence in my life, and I ended up closing the PR services syndicate down, and then interest was offered to me to continue there at the Recorder. And that's how I ended up at the Recorder.$So, let me go back again to the, your ancestor, Mary Bateman Clark. Now, you have something called the Mary Bateman Clark Enterprises [sic.]?$$Project.$$Project?$$Um-hm.$$Okay, project. It's not enterprises?$$It's Mary Bateman Clark Project.$$Okay. And when did you start the Mary Bateman Clark Project?$$Well, that started--let me think here. Because we started informally, you know. The project, actually, was a research project, and that's the reason it was called a project. And it had became a project to get a marker placed in Vincennes, Indiana, honoring Mary Bateman Clark. And it started in 2003, '4 [2004]. We've been at it for about ten years. And when I say we, I mean myself and my sister [Ethel Brewer McCane] and people who have been supporting us to get this done. So the research first, and then after the research, the marker, which we now have placed--we are continuing the project with the documentary ['Mary Bateman Clark: A Woman of Colour and Courage']. We want to get a headstone placed in the cemetery where she's buried, and we want to get this book published as part of the project.$$Okay. Okay. This started in 2003 and there's still some goals that haven't been met?$$Yes.$$Now, how did you--you might have told me in an early part. I don't think--I don't remember it though. How did you decide to pick this story up in the first place, 'cause, and you were telling me before as it relates to what your ancestors did, but I didn't--I don't think asked you about how you, you know, decided to focus on this.$$Well, actually, it started as a genealogy project. I, you know, wanted to know more about my father's [Charles Brewer, Jr.] side of the family, because, like I said, he left Vincennes and he never went back. And he told us some things about it, but I knew that his father [Charles Brewer, Sr.] was born there, I knew his father's father was born there, and I thought, okay, this would be a great line to trace, so. It started as a genealogy project. And I guess I could have focused on a lot of different ancestors from that line, because each one--not each one, but many, I should say, have made some contributions to Indiana. And so, actually--initially, I started with Sam Clark [Trotter's paternal great-great-great-grandfather, Samuel Clark], her husband, 'cause he is the patriarch. And he's the one who was at the Battle of Tippecanoe. I found secondary support for that; newspaper clips when he died, which was in eighteen sixty something, saying that he was in the Battle of Tippecanoe with [President] William Henry Harrison. And he was a hostler, horse handler for William Henry Harrison. And so that's where I really wanted to go. But then, as I found out about his wife, and then as I went to the Recorder, which happened prior to 2003, so actually, the research story, long time ago before then. There was this trunk at the Recorder, and in this trunk, and I told you that at the Recorder is stacks of paper everywhere, junk and clutter; well, there was a big shed in the back of this building with a trunk in there, and inside that trunk was just such a treasure trove of stuff. And one of the things there was the history of the A.M.E. church [African Methodist Episcopal] of Vincennes, Indiana; the history of Bethel A.M.E. Church of Vincennes, Indiana. And this history was written by the founder of the Indianapolis Recorder before he founded the Recorder. So the Recorder was founded in 1895. The history was written prior to 1895, and it was, I think, 1891, something like that, it was written. And it was a history of Bethel A.M.E. Church that read--that include every pastor, every board trustees, all the information about when Paul Quinn [William Paul Quinn] came to visit. This whole wonderful history about that church. And in that same history book were bios of the founders, and the very first one was about Sam and Mary Clark. And so when I saw that, I thought, oh, boy. This is really coming together for me. So I began to continue on that trail, and it just really took me all through Vincennes and through--I can't count what library clippings, you know, files. If--I'm going to give you one of those videos to take and you can just--you can gleam whatever you want from that. But I just, yeah. I just--It just opened the door to a lot of information about both of them. So I really--I could have gone Mary Clark, I could have gone Sam; but Mary's court case [Mary Clark, a woman of color v. G.W. Johnston] is what made--which is what made me really glom on to her, because this--and that's not in history books. There was nothing online. There's nothing in libraries that I saw about her, you know, and this case. This was an important case, and why wasn't there some information about that. That was my question. It was the why. It was a journalistic question, you know. Why isn't this story out there somewhere. Why have we been taught that Indiana was a free state when it wasn't, you know. And why is that lie continuing to be perpetuated even today, you know, in history books. So that's why I started with that. I wanted to, to correct that history, 'cause it's--we've been, we've been told a big lie.

Angela Dodson

Newspaper, magazine and books editor Angela P. Dodson was born on May 24, 1951 in Beckley, West Virginia to parents William Alfred, Sr., and Kira Evelyn. Dodson received her B.A. degree in journalism in 1973 from Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia and her M.A. degree in journalism and public affairs in 1979 from American University in Washington, D.C.

Having served as an intern at the Charleston Gazette, she accepted a full time position as a reporter for the Huntington Advertiser and later as a news correspondent with its parent company Gannett Co. Inc. at Gannett News Service in the Washington, D.C. bureau, and later for the Rochester Times Union. She also worked for the Washington Star, and the Courier Journal of Louisville, Kentucky. In 1983, Dodson moved to the New York Times as a National Desk copy editor and was soon promoted to editor for the “Living” section and head of the Style Department. In 1992, Dodson became the first African American woman promoted to be a senior editor at The New York Times.

After leaving the New York Times in 1995, Dodson contributed articles and served as an editor for various publications, including Essence and Black Issues Book Review, before being named executive editor of the book review in 2003. In 2007, she became a freelance editor, writer and publishing consultant, contributing frequently to DIVERSE: Issues In Higher Education. Dodson has edited and ghost-written many books for major publishers and numerous self-published authors. In 2012, she founded Editorsoncall LLC.

Dodson has been a consultant for the Maynard Institute for Journalism Education and Hampton University and is the host of an award-winning radio program, Black Catholics, Yes!, for the Diocese of Trenton, New Jersey. She has taught workshops on writing and editing for many organizations including the National Black Writers Conference, the National Association of Black Journalists, the American Press Institute, the American Society of Newspaper Editors, and the Maynard Institute’s Editing Program. She has served as an adjunct faculty member at Mercer County Community College.

Dodson was honored at Marshall University as the Black Alumna of the Year in 1998 and as a Distinguished Alumna in the School of Journalism in 1989. Dodson received a Black Achiever in Industry Award from the Harlem Y.M.C.A. in 1990 and the Feature Writing Award from the New York Association of Black Journalists in 2000.

Dodson lives in Trenton, New Jersey with her husband, Michael I. Days, editor of the Daily News of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. They have four adopted sons.

Angela Dodson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 7, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.060

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/7/2013

Last Name

Dodson

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Schools

West Side Elementary School

Meyersdale Area Middle School

Woodrow Wilson High School

Marmet Junior High School

East Bank High School

Marshall University

American University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Angela

Birth City, State, Country

Beckley

HM ID

DOD05

Favorite Season

Summer

State

West Virginia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Bethany Beach, Delaware

Favorite Quote

If You Can Keep Your Head When All About You Are Losing Theirs And Blaming It On You, If You Can Trust Yourself When All Men Doubt You, But Make Allowance For Their Doubting Too.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New Jersey

Birth Date

5/24/1951

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Trenton

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Calamari

Short Description

Newspaper editor and magazine editor Angela Dodson (1951 - ) was the first African American woman appointed as style editor of The New York Times, where she later became a senior editor. She also served as executive editor of the Black Issues Book Reviews.

Employment

Charleston Gazette

Gannett News Service

Rochester Times-Union

Washington Star

Louisville Courier-Journal

New York Times

Essence Magazine

Black Issues Book Review

Mercy County Community College

Huntington Advertiser

Editorsoncall, LLC

Black Catholics YES

Favorite Color

Red

Timing Pairs
0,0:648,26:10864,207:11220,212:17104,248:18448,262:19540,296:19876,301:20632,367:20968,372:22312,394:29132,499:31008,583:39185,674:39445,679:48287,824:48910,832:49266,837:50423,859:54295,879:60590,953:61526,973:63164,995:64412,1012:73220,1151:73820,1172:74920,1185:75620,1193:83356,1307:84229,1325:87041,1400:87526,1429:97873,1541:98245,1546:109900,1643:110846,1655:115146,1751:117038,1816:122890,1844:126300,1871:127881,1909:128718,1920:129927,1936:132345,1987:132996,1996:139300,2031:139860,2039:140660,2051:141620,2067:144150,2082:145158,2098:153840,2217$0,0:2023,23:3213,35:4284,45:17038,270:20202,321:20654,326:21671,336:29198,427:37479,518:37883,523:38287,528:38792,534:40509,598:53850,728:60916,785:64776,833:65315,847:66239,862:68318,907:69011,920:78054,1080:78942,1098:94748,1278:103510,1494:104970,1526:105773,1540:106065,1545:106357,1550:114665,1648:118461,1750:134106,1984:134430,1989:134754,1994:143502,2130:146256,2166:158945,2338:160245,2374:160570,2380:163500,2403:164140,2412:170326,2477:170770,2484:171066,2489:171584,2498:172028,2507:172768,2530:173286,2539:174026,2552:174396,2561:175062,2571:175358,2576:175728,2583:177726,2633:184552,2704:188336,2784:190228,2827:195955,2876:196215,2881:203266,2998:203818,3009:205566,3049:207406,3076:207774,3081:217510,3184
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Angela Dodson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson describes her mother's family background, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson describes her mother's family background, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson talks about her mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson describes her family's move to West Virginia

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Angela Dodson describes her father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Angela Dodson talks about her parents' marriage

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Angela Dodson describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson talks about her father's college education

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson remembers the Second Baptist Church in New Castle, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson remembers Westside Elementary School in New Castle, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson talks about Meyersdale Area High School in Meyersdale, Pennsylvania

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson talks about her early exposure to books and media

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson remembers the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson remembers the March on Washington

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson talks about her high school experiences

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson recalls her social environment in East Bank, West Virginia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson talks about her influential high school teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson remembers her time at Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson remembers covering the crash of Southern Airways Flight 932

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson remembers the aftermath of the Southern Airways Flight 932 crash

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Angela Dodson talks about the personal impact of the Southern Airways Flight 932 crash

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson talks about the media representation of the Southern Airways Flight 932 crash

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson recalls being hired as a reporter for The Huntington Advertiser

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson remembers covering the black community in Huntington, West Virginia

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson recalls lesson from her time at The Huntington Advertiser

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson remembers meeting Robert C. Maynard

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson talks about the founding of the National Association of Black Journalists

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson recalls becoming the assistant news feature editor at the Gannett Company, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Angela Dodson describes the structure of the Gannett Company, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Angela Dodson remembers President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter's administration

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson talks about her master's degree program

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson describes her time at the Rochester Times-Union

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson recalls her time at the Washington Star

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson talks about her decision to move to Louisville, Kentucky

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson remembers the Janet Cooke scandal, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson remembers the Janet Cooke scandal, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson talks about the portrayal of African Americans in the media

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Angela Dodson recalls the aftermath of the Janet Cooke scandal

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Angela Dodson talks about the founding of USA Today

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Angela Dodson recalls joining the staff of The New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson describes her experience on the national desk of The New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson recalls working the living section of The New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson talks about her time as style editor of the New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson talks about her reasons for the New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson recalls her lawsuit against The New York Times

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson recalls her time at Essence magazine

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson talks about her company, Editorsoncall, LLC

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson describes the impact of technology on the publishing industry

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson shares her advice to aspiring journalists

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson describes her concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Angela Dodson reflects upon her contributions to journalism

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Angela Dodson talks about her book reviews

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Angela Dodson reflects upon her life

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Angela Dodson talks about her adopted children

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Angela Dodson talks about her children

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Angela Dodson shares her advice to parents considering adoption

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Angela Dodson lists her siblings

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Angela Dodson describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Angela Dodson narrates her photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Angela Dodson narrates her photographs, pt. 2

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

8$7

DATitle
Angela Dodson describes her father's education
Angela Dodson recalls becoming the assistant news feature editor at the Gannett Company, Inc.
Transcript
Now what stories did your father [William Dodson, Sr.] tell about growing up? I mean what was his, what was he doing and how did he, you know, what kind of occupation did he want to pursue?$$My father had a very interesting history. He often told stories about working in the mines and going to high school [Byrd Prillerman High School, Amigo, West Virginia] at the same time. He would go to school a couple of days and to the mines the other days and of course, you know, being from such a large family they were poor. He said he never owned a schoolbook, they--he had to borrow schoolbooks and he was a very, very good student. My mother [Kira Walthall Dodson] always said that she was too embarrassed to borrow schoolbooks so she wasn't as good a student. But he--my father apparently had been a pretty good athlete also in high school in a number of sports and he was a boxer, amateur boxer. I, we met somebody just in the last few years that said oh she knew my family, she asked her mother about the family and she said, "Oh yeah one of them was a boxer," and I said, "That would be my father." And then he went to the [U.S.] Navy and or first he went to the shipyards in Newport News, Virginia and then into the Navy and studied electronics at some point while he was there. I believe on the campus of Hampton University [Hampton Institute; Hampton University, Hampton, Virginia]. He talks about--or used to talk about that. And, he studied electronics in the Navy but when he--when the war [World War II, WWII] was over he came home and worked in the mines again and met, or actually re-met my mother who was home supposedly temporarily from Philadelphia [Pennsylvania] to see her brother graduate or something. And he continued to work in the mines maybe for about two or three more years but at that point the mines became unstable work. It was the coal seam or something that they were working on that was not as productive and they were laying off men, you know, left and right. So my fam- a lot of family started looking for other places to move to and my family ended up moving to western Pennsylvania to a town called New Castle mainly because some of the Bashams had settled in that area.$In '77 [1977] you were promoted to assistant news feature editor at Gannett [Gannett Company, Inc.], right?$$Um-hm.$$And you served there from '77 [1977] to '79 [1979]. I mean what--tell us about that promotion and--$$I, well I asked for it--someone who had been the in office editing, getting things on the wire and all that announced that she was leaving for I think the Knight Ridder papers or something. And I, and I knew that they had hired a new woman to come to the bureau who had been an editor and I figured that they might have her in mind for that job. But I went to the bureau chief, John Curley, and asked him if he had thought about how he was going to fill the job. And he grumbled, "No I just found out about that (unclear)," but I convinced him that I needed to do this job 'cause I wanted to be an editor and at that time the technology was changing. We had just--in the bureau we had just gone to computers. Huntington [The Huntington Advertiser] had already switched to computers but a lot of places were not using computers yet. And I--$$Yeah.$$--I was fascinated by the technology; I am my father's [William Dodson, Sr.] child. And (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) By, by computer you mean the?$$Ter- you know, the terminals.$$Copy graphic terminals they use to have--$$Yeah.$$--to do typesetting and all that, and?$$So, you know, to be able to, you know, learn about the new computers and how that was going to affect the copy, and you know, and to learn about the technology and to work with the wires and all that just fascinated me.$$Now, let's go back a little bit.$$Um-hm.$$Just, like before how was it, reporters just used typewriters, and?$$Yeah.$$Almanac and a typewriter (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) We were trained, you know, we were trained to use the typewriter, I learned--at Marshall [Marshall University, Huntington, West Virginia] we had to learn to type if you are a journalism major so I, you know, I did. In the newsroom you would have your typewriter, you had paper what we called--most papers had what you called carbon sets. It was two or three stacks of paper with carbon paper between them so that you made copies. You had a copy for yourself, the desk had a copy and then one copy went up to the printer after it was edited. So at some point Gannett had used Huntington as an experiment, partly because it was a small paper, to bring in the computer terminals and see how it worked in a real life newsroom. But it wasn't long before I left, it might have been in the last six months I was there or something like that. When I got to the bureau, the bureau was still on paper and we would fax our stories up to Rochester [New York] and they would typeset them and put them on the wire or whatever they did with them. So because the bureau was fairly small it was also easy to com- to computerize it, long before some newspapers had switched over. And to be on the cutting edge of that and, you know, to learn how to do it and how to format the stories and that sort of thing, I think really interested me more, more than reporting did, so.$$Okay. All right, so--$$Although report- you know, reporting was fun there, so.

Joseph N. Boyce

Newspaper editor Joseph N. Boyce was born on April 18, 1937 in New Orleans, Louisiana to Sadie Boyce. He studied biology at Roosevelt University and attended John Marshall School of Law in Chicago from 1965 to 1967.

In 1961, Boyce joined the Chicago police force, where he served for five years as a patrolman, district vice detective, evidence technician and police academy law instructor. In 1966, he was hired as the first African American reporter at the Chicago Tribune, where he covered the Nigerian Civil War and the Democratic National Convention of 1968. Time magazine recruited Boyce as a correspondent at the publication’s Chicago bureau in 1970, where he wrote a series of articles on the emergence of urban gangs. Within three years, he was promoted to chief of the San Francisco bureau, where he covered the Patricia Hearst kidnapping and trial, the assassination attempts on President Gerald Ford, and the Moscone-Milk assassinations.

Boyce became chief of Time’s Atlanta bureau and southern region in 1979 and moved on to the position of deputy chief of Time’s New York bureau in 1985. The Wall Street Journal then hired him as senior editor for public and social policy in 1987, making him the first African American senior editor at the paper. He retired from the Wall Street Journal in 1998 and became an adjunct professor at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism in 1999. In 2001, Boyce was hired as an adjunct professor at Indiana/Purdue University’s Indianapolis School of Journalism where he won the Alfred Bynum award for mentoring in 2006.

Boyce has been a member of various associations, including the National Association of Black Journalists, the Indianapolis Association of Black Journalists, and the Indiana Pro Chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists. He was also a founding member of the National Association of Minority Media Executives (NAMME), and served as a consultant to the Wall Street Journal.

Boyce lives in Indianapolis with his wife Carol, with whom he has four children.

Joseph Boyce was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 12, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.256

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/12/2012

Last Name

Boyce

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Roosevelt University

John Marshall Law School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Joseph

Birth City, State, Country

New Orleans

HM ID

BOY03

Favorite Season

June

State

Louisiana

Favorite Vacation Destination

New York, New York

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

4/18/1937

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken, Steak, Pastry

Short Description

Newspaper editor Joseph N. Boyce (1937 - ) was the first African American reporter at the Chicago Tribune, the first African American bureau chief for Time magazine, and the first African American senior editor of the Wall Street Journal.

Employment

Chicago Police Department

Chicago Tribune

Time, Inc.

Wall Street Journal

Columbia University

Indiana University - Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI)

Favorite Color

Green

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Joseph Boyce's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce talks about his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce describes his maternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about his mother's siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce details his maternal grandfather's education, grocery store, and real estate holdings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about his grandfather's loan to a local Ford dealership and his being an honorary deputy sheriff

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce describes his uncle, Cecil Nelson, who won the Croix de Guerre and became the first black national officer for the Illinois American Legion

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce talks about his grandfather's children from his third marriage

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce outlines his mother's education and teaching career at Prairie View A&M University and Xavier University

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Joseph Boyce talks about how his parents met and his father's family

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Joseph Boyce recalls living in a rooming house in Central Illinois, his mother's employment challenges as an African American, and moving to Chicago

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Joseph Boyce talks about his father, a priest, the dynamics of his parents' relationship and his own rocky relationship with his father

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Joseph Boyce remembers how he and his brother both worked full-time jobs while attending grade school to make ends meet after his mother had a stroke

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about Sadie Nelson, his mother and his hero

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce describes his older brother, Robert, who served in the U.S. Navy, the U.S. Army, and the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce talks about his mother's independence from her family

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce describes how his mother made ends meet by selling her inheritance

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce describes the sights, sounds, and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce talks about behavioral problems in his school classroom and the demographic of Danville, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about being the only black student in grade school and how it impacted him

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce talks about living in a white part of town and being called an "Uncle Tom"

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce recounts the paper routes and lawn cutting business he had as a youth in Danville, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce discusses systematic racial and gender discrimination in America and how it affected his vocational aspirations

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Joseph Boyce talks about black newspapers and how he handled his paper routes

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Joseph Boyce describes his fight with a white paper boy

Tape: 2 Story: 13 - Joseph Boyce describes his mother's influence on how he spoke and his love of reading

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about exercising his right to service at a soda shop in Danville, Illinois with the help of his mother and a good friend

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce describes his natural curiosity and how it led him into journalism

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce remembers facing discrimination at an Episcopal church in Danville, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce talks about being a good student in grade school, but a poor student in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce describes the teachers and classmate that influenced him in grade school

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce recalls moving to Chicago's Sutherland Hotel when his mother took a new job

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about playing instruments with his brother and discovering the vibraharp

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce describes the mechanics of the vibraharp, and the diversity of people and opportunity he saw in Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce talks about working as a stock boy and at the Sutherland Hotel, and seeing musicians like Miles Davis and Thelonius Monk

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce remembers taking vibraphone lessons from Marvin Kaplan of the Civic Opera, exploring Chicago's arts scene, and his first music gigs with Herbie Hancock and Don Goldberg

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about taking a break from his studies at Roosevelt University to go on tour with the Dozier Boys from 1956 to 1957

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about Lionel Hampton and Milt Jackson, two influential vibraphonists

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce talks about how music and partying were his priorities at Roosevelt University, and how he switched his major from biology to psychology

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce talks about his marriage, his two daughters, and his interest in working for the Chicago Police Department

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about the Summerdale Scandal, joining the Chicago Police Department in 1961, and supplementing his income by working at the post office

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce describes corruption in the Chicago Police Department

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about attending John Marshall Law School, political demonstrations in Chicago, and the Willis Wagons

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce talks about how a chance encounter with the Chicago Tribune's foreign correspondent inspired him to become a journalist

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce shares the story of how he was hired at the Chicago Tribune in 1966

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce describes leaving the Chicago Police Department to work for the Chicago Tribune in 1966

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about participating in Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s housing march in Gage Park in 1966 and the political orientation of Chicago newspapers

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce talks about refusing to be confined to covering the black community by working on the breadth of his coverage while at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce remembers how he changed an editor's racist opinion of him

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about covering the Black Panther Party, working with Ovie Carter, and leaving the Chicago Tribune for TIME magazine in 1970

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce remembers a lesson from Don Starr, foreign editor for the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about his foreign assignment to cover the Nigerian-Biafran war in 1969

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce describes a couple of dangerous encounters in Nigeria while covering the Nigerian-Biafran War

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce remembers his attempts to enter Biafra to cover the Nigerian-Biafran War

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce talks about the Nigerian-Biafran War, and how Hollywood and the movies affected his perception of Africa

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about his interactions with Nigerian citizens while he was covering the Nigerian-Biafran War in Lagos

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce describes his coverage of the murders of Fred Hampton and Mark Clark who were members of the Black Panther Party

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce talks about Lu Palmer, Betty Washington, and how Chicago's liberal newspapers were not as liberal as they purported to me

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce describes black journalists at the Chicago Tribune including Vernon Jarett, Pam Johnson, and Angela Parker, and the paper's hire of Clarence Page

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about his friendship with Clarence Page

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce talks about covering the 1968 Memphis SCLC convention after Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about covering the 1968 Memphis SCLC convention after Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce describes the SCLC Mule Train, and the events leading up to protests outside of the Conrad Hilton Hotel in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic National Convention

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce recounts the protests outside of the Conrad Hilton Hotel in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic National Convention

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about how the Chicago Tribune suppressed a story on the Conrad Hilton Hotel protest during the 1968 Democratic National Convention

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about a censored story of the black student takeover of the Bursar's Office at Northwestern University

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce discusses instances of censorship by the "old guard" at the Chicago Tribune

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce talks about his decision to move to Resurrection City during the 1969 Poor People's Campaign in response to drive-by journalism in Chicago papers

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce describes life in Resurrection City during the Poor People's Campaign

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce talks about leaving the Poor People's Campaign in Resurrection City and writing a front page story about his experience

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce discusses the success of The Civil Rights Movement, and the critical distinction between desegregation and integration

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce talks about his decision to leave the Chicago Tribune for TIME magazine in 1970

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce talks about working for TIME magazine and becoming the first bureau chief of color at TIME, Inc.

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about his story on Jim Thompson during his time at TIME Magazine's Chicago office from 1973 to 1979

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about how the Republican Party has changed over the years

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce discusses the impact of Jesse Jackson's contributions on the black community and some of Jackson's shortcomings, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce discusses the impact of Jesse Jackson's contributions on the black community and some of Jackson's shortcomings, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about his promotion to chief of the TIME's San Francisco bureau, securing credibility as a black boss, and Olivia Stewart, his administrative assistant

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce talks about stories that broke while he was TIME's San Francisco bureau chief: the attempted assassination of President Ford, the Patty Hearst kidnapping, and the Symbionese Liberation Army

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about the assassinations of Mayor George Moscone and Harvey Milk

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce remembers being racially profiled by police outside the People's Temple in San Francisco

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce describes running TIME's West Edit operation out of the Los Angeles bureau

Tape: 8 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce talks about covering the Alaskan pipeline in Prudhoe Bay and disabusing TIME's New York office of some geographical stereotypes

Tape: 8 Story: 11 - Joseph Boyce talks about being transferred TIME's Atlanta bureau as chief and the Atlanta Child Murders

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce describes theories surrounding Wayne Williams' involvement with the Atlanta Child Murders

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about stories in the South while he was TIME's Atlanta chief

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce describes the stories surrounding former South Carolina Senator Jesse Helms

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce remembers fixing personnel problems at TIME's New York office and leaving TIME for The Wall Street Journal in 1987

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about adjusting to his job as senior editor of The Wall Street Journal

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce talks about The Wall Street Journal's irrelevance to black businessmen

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about working to increase The Wall Street Journal's relevance among black professionals

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce recalls collaborating with Black Enterprise Magazine to run a black entrepreneurship forum, and his retirement in 1998

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce talks about his second wife, Carol Boyce

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce shares the story of meeting his second wife, Carol Boyce

Tape: 9 Story: 11 - Joseph Boyce talks about how he met his second wife, Carol Boyce, and the dissolution of his first marriage

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about his courtship with his second wife, Carol Boyce nee Hill

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about his teaching experience as well as fellow colleagues Vernon Jarrett, DeWayne Wickham, Les Payne, Paul Delaney, Francis Ward, and himself

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce describes his decision to leave the National Association of Minority Media Executives (NAMME) because he did not want to fundraise through grants

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce talks about the Alfred Byron Teaching Award and his commitment to diversifying journalism as well as Pam Johnson and her mentor, Les Brownlee

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce talks about playing with Herbie Hancock, Leslie Rout, Billie Johns, and Billie Quinn in high school

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce talks about Herbie Hancock and Donald Stewart

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce describes his music career and how Herbie Hancock became a member of the Miles Davis Quintet

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce shares the story of his first gig with Rahsaan Roland Kirk

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Joseph Boyce talks about moving back to Atlanta and his children there

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Joseph Boyce talks about his children

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Joseph Boyce talks about his daughter Beverly Griffith, and his son, Nelson Boyce

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Joseph Boyce talks about his mother, Sadie Nelson, and her passing in 1979

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Joseph Boyce discusses what he might do differently and the impact of racism on the job market

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Joseph Boyce reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Joseph Boyce talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - Joseph Boyce shares advice for young black journalists

Tape: 11 Story: 9 - Joseph Boyce talks about the disparity in the black community

Tape: 11 Story: 10 - Joseph Boyce continues to talk about the disparity in the black community

Tape: 11 Story: 11 - Joseph Boyce talks about his hopes for the African American community

DASession

1$1

DATape

7$4

DAStory

1$6

DATitle
Joseph Boyce talks about how the Chicago Tribune suppressed a story on the Conrad Hilton Hotel protest during the 1968 Democratic National Convention
Joseph Boyce describes corruption in the Chicago Police Department
Transcript
All right, all right, okay, continue.$$So, meanwhile, like I said, it was chaos. And then all of a sudden, the police start pushing the crowd--the crowd back on the sidewalk at the Conrad Hilton [Hotel] to get them back up on the sidewalk. What they didn't realize was there was no place for them to go. They were up against the building. And as the police were pushing these people back, they were pushed up against the plate glass windows of the drugstore and the stores at the Conrad Hilton, and they broke the plate glass window. Some of these people were delegates. They broke the plate glass windows and fell in, and when the--you could hear the plate glass windows crack and shatter. Then the police really went crazy 'cause they thought that the demonstrators were breaking the windows. And they were beatin' people with clubs, and a photographer from the Chicago Defender ran up to the police commander and said stop your men; stop your men; these people have no place to go; you're, you're pushin 'em up. And the commander, he was lost. And he looked and he told his men to stop. They were beyond control. They didn't listen to him, and he went over to his own men and began physically pulling them off of people. Meanwhile, people were falling inside the stores in the Conrad Hilton and, of course, they were running in the stores trying to get out. Some of 'em were cut and so forth. And then the police went crazy. So that's what happened. That's what caused it. Meanwhile, the Mule Train that I was with said, let's get out of here; let's get out of here. And so they hooked up the horses--the mules--and they broke through the crowd going south and turned right at the south end of the Conrad Hilton, and I went with him. And just as we got around the corner there was a 15-year-old boy on the mule train, and he passed out in my arms. And I waited 'til somebody looked after him on, on the--on the ground, and then I started to go back to work. I went to police headquarters first, and I ran into Paul Delaney with the New York Times, who was covering it. Then I saw a woman that I knew. She had lived in Cuba. She was a lawyer. And I knew her and I told her to go home--get out of the area as fast as she can--and then I went to the Chicago Tribune. And I remember going into the city room, and I'm saying you are not gone believe what happened out there. And I started telling people in the city room what had happened, and so somebody said you need to talk to--and his last name was Murray; I can't remember his first name--who was the news editor. And he was a big kinda gruff conservative guy--said you need to talk to him to tell him what happened; that's a story. So I, I--he came over and I told him--explained what happened. And I never will forget he only had one comment to make. He said, I cannot believe that the Chicago Police would ever behave in that fashion, and he turned around on his heel and walked away. And if you look at the newspapers back at that time, every paper in Chicago, including papers also in New York and other places had that story and the Chicago Tribune did not have it. The only time the Chicago Tribune wrote about it was at the end of the week they put out a special issue on the convention. And one of the editors was a young reporter/writer who later became a columnist by the name of Michael Killian. And Michael got that story in the paper. But nobody ever came back to me and asked me what happened. What it was written from was accounts that had been in other newspapers. But that's not the first time that the Chicago Tribune changed a story I did or did something. There was one other time, and other than that it's a great paper. It was a great paper with me, but there were just a couple of the old guard there that you just couldn't deal with. One of them was Don Maxwell, who was the editor. He was the first editor after Robert McCormick.$You had a lot of them [Chicago police officers] who worked the post office and then you had a lot of them who worked the street, if you understand what I mean. I chose not to work the street, and as a result, some of my colleagues--I thought I had a reputation as a good cop, but, but you had to be careful because even, even with the reforms, there was still a lot of corruption. Years later I met a cop, and he said I know you, when I was introduced. And I said, have we met? He said no. I said well, how do you know me? And he said, you were in 3rd District, right? I said yeah. And he said, I was on the shift after yours. He said one day you were getting out of your squad car down below--Grand Crossing was on 75th and, and Maryland at that time, and the cars used to double park when they changed shifts--and he said their captain, a guy by the name of Ronnie Nash, called the whole roll call over the window and pointed me out to them as I was gettin' out of the squad car--said watch him; he's from IID-Internal Investigations Division. And the reason that he pointed me out as from being downtown is because I didn't take money, and they figured because I didn't take money that I had to be a spy.$$Now who did you--(simultaneous)--$$And this is the captain telling them that, a captain, so who could you go to?$$Yeah, I've, I've heard lots of these kinds of stories. And when you were in the department, I believe--were you there the same--you were--you were the same time as Ed Palmer [Edward L. "Buzz" Palmer], right? bu--bu--Buzz (unclear)--$$Buzz came after me.$$Did he? Okay, so you, you, you--$$Yeah, I was there from '61 [1961]--$$--had left before--$$--to '66 [1966]. I think we might have overlapped the last year or two, but I didn't know Buzz.$$What, what about ja--ja--Jack DeBonnett or DeBonnet or (laughter)?$$No, I didn't know him, uh-um. I mean, I knew most of the guys in Grand Crossing. And then after a couple of years, I became an evidence technician. And I did that for a couple of years, and then I became an instructor in law in the police academy.

Rod Doss

As the editor and publisher of The Pittsburgh Courier since 1997, Rod Doss has helped elevate the status of the publication into one of the most widely circulated African American newspapers in the country. Born in Pittsburgh, Doss is a graduate of the Pittsburgh Technical Institute and attended the University of Pittsburgh.

Doss’ career with The Pittsburgh Courier dates back to 1967 when he was appointed as a sales representative. His ultimate promotion to editor and publisher in 1997 came following the death of his mentor, legendary publisher and founder of the National Newspaper Publishers Association, John H. Sengstacke, who owned the Courier at the time. With a staff of only twelve full-time employees, Doss produced hard hitting stories, while still portraying the African American community in a positive light.

Doss has been the recipient of the Press Club of Western Pennsylvania Service to Journalism Award, the Omega Psi Phi Fraternity’s Man of the Year Award and the Duquesne Light African American Leadership Award. Doss has also been honored by the Allegheny County Board of Commissioners and Pittsburgh City Council.

In 2007, Doss and The Pittsburgh Courier Archives Committee traveled to Washington, D.C., to petition U.S. Representatives John Lewis, Mike Doyle and Jason Altmire for funding on a project to restore and digitize over 750,000 images spanning nearly 100 years of African American history of the Courier’s collection. Congressman Doyle presented them with a $150,000 check in January, 2008.

Accession Number

A2008.107

Sex

Male

Interview Date

8/14/2008

Last Name

Doss

Maker Category
Organizations
Search Occupation Category
First Name

Rod

Birth City, State, Country

Pittsburgh

HM ID

DOS01

Favorite Season

All Seasons

State

Pennsylvania

Favorite Vacation Destination

Caribbean

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Pennsylvania

Birth Date

3/10/1943

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Pittsburgh

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Steak

Short Description

Newspaper editor and newspaper publishing chief executive Rod Doss (1943 - ) has edited and published 'The Pittsburgh Courier' since 1997. He has helped elevate the status of the publication into one of the most widely circulated African American newspapers in the country.

Favorite Color

Gold

Mary Ellen Butler

Journalist Mary Ellen Butler was born Mary Ellen Rose on May 8, 1940 in Berkeley, California. Her mother, Virginia Craft Rose, is the niece of Harvard University graduate and editor/activist Monroe Trotter. Her grandfather was Henry Kempton Craft (d.1974), an early black YMCA executive and a direct descendent of William and Ellen Craft, famous for their daring escape from slavery in 1848. Butler’s father, Joshua Richard Rose, headed the Northwest branch of the YMCA in Oakland, California, where she attended Durant Elementary School, Herbert Hoover Junior High School and Oakland Technical High School. Butler, who was mentored by journalism teacher Crystal Murphy, graduated in 1957. She attended the University of California at Berkeley where she earned her B.A. degree in journalism. Butler covered the school’s refusal to let Malcolm X speak for the Daily Californian.

Graduating in 1961, Butler was hired as a writer by Blue Cross of Northern California and then by Bank of America World Headquarters to write business reports. In 1964, Butler joined the Berkeley Daily Gazette as a reporter covering the Free Speech Movement, City Hall, desegregation in the Berkeley public schools, and the Black Panther Party. Butler also taught the history of black journalism at Laney College in Oakland. From 1971 to 1972, she served as reporter and editor of the Berkeley Post. Entering the Congressional Fellowship Program, Butler wrote speeches, press releases and position papers for United States Senator Alan Cranston and Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm in 1972 and 1973. She was a metro and feature reporter for the Washington Star, from 1973 to 1978.

In 1979, Butler returned to Oakland as writer and public information officer for the Oakland Unified School District. In late 1979, she joined the Oakland Tribune as “Lifestyle” editor. There, Butler managed a staff of thirty, producing eight newspaper sections per week including the “Sunday Lifestyle” and “Entertainment” sections. Moving to editorial writer in 1983, Butler wrote daily editorials and managed the political endorsement process. From 1990 to 1994, Butler was named Editorial Page editor. After fifteen years with the Oakland Tribune, she opened Butler Communications.

In 1992, Butler received the Best Editorial Award from the Contra Costa Press Club and first place for editorial writing from the California Newspaper Publishers Association. In 1995, she won first place for her essay “Leadership in a Changing World” from the Center for Creative Leadership. Butler was a member of the National Conference of Editorial Writers and is a founding member of the National Association of Black Journalists. She is the author of several books including Oakland Welcomes the World and Prophet of the Parks: The Story of William Penn Mott and edited Black Women Stirring the Waters.

Butler was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 13, 2007.

Accession Number

A2007.136

Sex

Female

Interview Date

4/13/2007

Last Name

Butler

Maker Category
Middle Name

Ellen

Occupation
Organizations
Schools

Oakland Technical High School

Durant Elementary School

Herbert Hoover Junior High School

University of California, Berkeley

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Mary

Birth City, State, Country

Berkeley

HM ID

BUT05

Favorite Season

Fall

State

California

Favorite Vacation Destination

Yosemite National Park

Favorite Quote

Keep On Keepin' On.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

5/8/1940

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Bay Area/Concord

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fruit

Short Description

Newspaper editor Mary Ellen Butler (1940 - ) was the former speechwriter for U.S. Senator Alan Cranston and Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm. She also served as a metro and feature reporter for the Washington Star, and the lifestyle editor for the Oakland Tribune.

Employment

Blue Cross of Northern California

Bank of America

Berkeley Daily Gazette

The Daily Californian

Oakland Post

The Oakland Tribune

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Mary Ellen Butler's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls her maternal ancestors, William Craft and Ellen Smith Craft

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her maternal ancestor, James Monroe Trotter

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls her maternal great uncle

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the Woodville Co-operative Farm School in Bryan County, Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler describes how her maternal grandparents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about her maternal ancestry

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Mary Ellen Butler narrates her family tree

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls visiting her maternal grandparents

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about her family's naming traditions

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about the Harlem YMCA in New York City

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler describes how her parents met

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls her maternal grandfather's start in the YMCA

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the demographics of her neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls her early interest in baseball

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about the black leadership in Oakland, California

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls her early interest in reading

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her relationship with her father

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about her early interest in journalism

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers Herbert Hoover Junior High School in Oakland, California

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the alumni of McClymonds High School in Oakland, California

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers Oakland Technical High School in Oakland, California

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers her high school journalism teacher

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls her journalistic activities in high school

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers her early career aspirations

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls reading African American newspapers

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about California's higher education system

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers the University of California, Berkeley

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers Malcolm X

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the black community at the University of California, Berkeley

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler describes the Civil Rights Movement in Oakland, California

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers studying abroad in Poland

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about the popularity of jazz music in Poland

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls the Shrine of the Black Madonna in Poland

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her experiences of gender discrimination

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about her early work experiences

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls working for the Berkeley Daily Gazette

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls the Free Speech Movement at the University of California, Berkeley, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls the Free Speech Movement at the University of California, Berkeley, pt. 2

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers the Black Panther Party

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about influential journalists and literary writers

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Mary Ellen Butler recalls working for the Oakland Post

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers the death of activist George Jackson

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her Congressional Fellowship in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her news articles for the Washington Star

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers author Alex Haley

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about Jim Jones and Harvey Milk

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers Huey P. Newton

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler remembers Robert C. Maynard

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about Gary Webb's investigative journalism

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Mary Butler remembers hip hop artist, MC Hammer

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her freelance writing

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about her favorite news articles

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her books

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about writing her family's biography

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Mary Ellen Butler describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Mary Ellen Butler reflects upon her life and legacy

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Mary Ellen Butler talks about her children

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Mary Ellen Butler describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Mary Ellen Butler narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$5

DAStory

4$6

DATitle
Mary Ellen Butler recalls her maternal ancestors, William Craft and Ellen Smith Craft
Mary Ellen Butler recalls the Free Speech Movement at the University of California, Berkeley, pt. 1
Transcript
Yeah, now this is a well-known story for those who know African American history, and if you can just give us a synopsis, so somebody watching this later on can, you know, will have a frame of reference (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Yes. Well, the interesting thing about William [William Craft] and Ellen Craft [Ellen Smith Craft] is that they escaped, not on the Underground Railroad--in other words, by hiding and going from place to place--rather, they escaped by real railroad, and also real boats. They left Macon [Georgia] right around Christmastime when slaves were traditionally allowed to leave the plantation for a day or two to visit relatives. And they got on a train, which took them from Macon to Savannah, Georgia on the coast. And then, from Savannah, they took a boat to the next destination. And to make a long story short, they had several stops up in, up the coast of the Carolinas [North Carolina and South Carolina], and into Virginia. And they were, they were making their way to Philadelphia [Pennsylvania]. And so, in a series of train and boat travels, they actually got to Philadelphia without being caught, even though the master soon knew that they were missing. The way they did this, and what makes the story interesting, is that Ellen, who was very fair-skinned, pretended to be a white man. And she did this by cutting her hair, and putting on a top hat, and a pair of glasses to hide her face. William masqueraded as her slave. Now, the way that Ellen got through this charade was by not speaking, so that nobody knew she was a woman. And she also could not sign papers to take William out of slave territory because she couldn't read or write. So, when she got to one stop, and it may have been Baltimore [Maryland], the station master wanted her to sign to a paper to allow her to take her slave across a state line. So, she couldn't write her name, so she hesitated, and didn't know what to do. And, finally, people in the crowd said, "Oh, let the gentleman go, let this nice young gentleman go. He has his slave with him. It's okay, let him go." So, the station master let her through by the skin of her teeth. And they went on through Baltimore, and through Delaware, and into Philadelphia.$$Now, I've seen the pictures in books where she devises, she devises a sling for her arm actually (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yes.$$--to keep the, yeah.$$She also devised a sling for her arm to masquerade--again, the fact that she could not read or write. And then, to make the, the costume complete, she put a bandage or a poultice around her head and her face, and that way, she didn't have to speak. And she also pretended that she was deaf (laughter). So, when people would speak to her on the train, thinking she was a young white gentleman--William, if he were anywhere nearby, would say, "Oh, my master can't speak because he's sick. I'm taking, I'm going with him to Philadelphia for medical treatment, so he's not able to say anything." And people would say, "Well, what's this boy doing here, this slave boy? Why is he standing near this master?" And other people would say, "Oh, well, he looks like he's okay. He's not going to do anything. He's just helping his master." So, they were able to keep this going until they got to Philadelphia. And then, from Philadelphia, they went to Boston [Massachusetts], which was a hot bed of abolition and abolitionists. And in a few weeks or so, the slave catchers came from Georgia to capture them. And the Boston abolitionists pulled out their rifles and their shotguns, and said, "You're not taking William and Ellen Craft back to slavery."$$Yeah, and Boston had some serious abolitionists in those days (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Boston had some--$$They would actually fire on you.$$That's right.$$William Parker and a bunch of them that--$$Yeah.$$--you know, Lewis Hayden, and they were a tough group.$$Many wonderful abolitionists. And then, to make this story complete, the law was passed at some point that allowed slaves to be recaptured, and returned to the South. So, William and Ellen Craft then went to England. And they lived there for some many years, fifteen or twenty years--again, don't quote on me on my exact figures--until the Civil War ended. And then, they returned with four of the five children that had been born to them during that time. And they returned to Georgia, where they founded a school for freed slaves [Woodville Co-operative Farm School, Bryan County, Georgia], and that is where they ended their lives. Their lives ended in Georgia, and in Charleston, South Carolina.$$Okay. And that's, you know, there's also--I think William Craft actually went to Africa, and at some point, too (simultaneous).$$(Simultaneous) Yes, he did. While they lived in England, William Craft went to Liberia. And, again, I'm not sure about my facts, but he went to the West Coast of Africa where he asked chieftains to please stop, stop selling their brothers and their, their foes, and the people that they had defeated in, in tribal wars, to stop selling them into slavery. And he came back and felt that he had done the best he could to try to persuade the chieftains, those who were doing that, to stop doing so.$And not long after I started in '64 [1964], the Free Speech Movement broke out at, at Cal [University of California, Berkeley, Berkeley, California], and I was able to cover parts of that.$$Okay. Now, that's the Mario Savio, I think was the (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) That's right, the Mario Savio days, and I wasn't long out of college myself. So, they sent me up to the campus, which was within walking distance of, of the newspaper, right there in Berkeley [California]. And I was able to go into the crowds of students that were demonstrating because I looked like a student, and with my notepad, and take notes and cover it, as it was happening. And at that point, the students were, were occupying the administration building. They were sitting in. And so, I just went right in with them, and sat down amongst all these students. And then, I was embarrassed when the police officer came through with the bullhorn and said in-, into the bullhorn, Mary Ellen Perry [HistoryMaker Mary Ellen Butler]--that was my name at the time--and I hunkered down, you know, didn't want anybody around me to know that they were talking to me. And he repeated my name again. And I, you know, kind of went, yes. And they said, "Your editor says, come back to the office right now (laughter)."$$With a bull horn?$$So I, I--my cover was blown (laughter). So, I sheepishly got up and tiptoed out (laughter), you know.$$Now, as I've read, I've heard accounts of people who were there in those days that talk about the police attacking students and physically and (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) They did. Now, before I was sent back to the office, I saw the police dragging students out. First, they would say, "You, you need to leave." And the students would say, "We don't want to leave, or we're not going to leave." And after several warnings, the police then said, "Well, we're going to arrest you." And then, the students would go limp, you know, so as not to cooperate. And so, I saw the police take the, the male students, and pull them down the stairway because the holding pen for the UC Police Department was in the basement. So, they took the men and just dragged them down the steps. And the women--$$So, that hurt, didn't it?$$Yes, it did hurt.$$Yeah.$$And the women, some of them, they dragged, too, because they would practice--I've forgotten what it, it's called--passive resistance. And so, they, they dragged the women down, too. So, I was able to describe these things--went back to the rewrite man at the office, and, and they got into the paper. It was part of the, the coverage of the Gazette [Berkeley Daily Gazette], which I was very proud, that I had been an eyewitness to, to that, and was able to, to describe it. And so, people knew that's what happened so.