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Myrna Jackson

Civic leader Myrna Jackson was born on July 9, 1941 in Birmingham, Alabama to Willie George Carter and Willie Lee Ledger. She graduated from A.H. Parker High School in 1958 at the age of sixteen years old, and attended Barbara Durr Beauty College in 1965, and became a licensed cosmetologist. She later attended Lawson State Community College in Birmingham, Alabama, and graduated from Miles College in Fairfield, Alabama with her B.S.W. degree in 2000.

Jackson was active in the civil rights movement in Birmingham and served as the first vice president of the Metro Birmingham Branch of the NAACP. After the 1963 bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church, Jackson participated in the Children’s March and the Monday Masses, organized by the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights led by Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth. In 1963, Jackson was jailed twice and held in the Birmingham Jail, during the demonstrations that took place after the bombings.

After attending Lawson State Community College, Jackson became a certified substitute teacher and taught at several schools in Birmingham, before working for Macy’s and Parisian’s department stores where she remained for ten years. Jackson left Parisian’s and enrolled at Miles College. After graduation, she worked for workforce development to help provide social services after Hurricane Katrina. She later joined Birmingham Works for Youth to provide job training and skills for school-age children. Jackson then campaigned for Shelia Smoot during her run for Jefferson County Commissioner for District Two. Jackson was then appointed commissioner of the Housing Authority of the Birmingham District by Mayor William Bell. Jackson also helped organize the 2009 conference between youth and law enforcement between the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In 2017, Jackson helped commemorate the Birmingham Civil Rights National Monument. In 2018, Jackson served as interim president of the Birmingham NAACP.

Jackson was a member of the Top Ladies of Distinction who worked with Top Teens of America to provide scholarships and funding for students.

In 2013, Jackson was honored along with several other women on the fiftieth anniversary of the Civil Rights Movement by the Metro Birmingham Branch of the NAACP.

Myna Jackson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on May 1, 2017.

Accession Number

A2017.098

Sex

Female

Interview Date

05/01/2017

Last Name

Jackson

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
First Name

Myrna

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

JAC39

Favorite Season

Spring or Fall

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Atlanta and Shreveport

Favorite Quote

Never look down on a man unless you are picking him up.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Alabama

Birth Date

4/9/1941

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Birmingham

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Vegetables

Short Description

Civic leader Myrna Jackson (1941 - ) was active in the Civic Rights Movement in Birmingham, Alabama and was the first vice president of the Metro Birmingham Branch of the NAACP and commissioner of the Housing Authority of the Birmingham District.

Favorite Color

Black

Herb Boyd

Author, educator and journalist Herb Boyd was born on November 1, 1938 in Birmingham, Alabama. He grew up in Detroit, Michigan, where he attended Wayne State University in the 1960s. Boyd went on to graduate with his B.A. degree in philosophy from Wayne State University in 1969.

From 1968 through 1977, Boyd worked as an instructor in African American Studies and Anthropology at Wayne State University. He was also appointed as an instructor of anthropology and ethnomusicology at Oberlin College from 1970 until 1972. In 1979, Boyd was hired as a lecturer in black history and sociology at the Center for Creative Studies in Detroit, and was named president of the Jazz Research Institute. He then worked briefly as the supervisor of office operations at the U.S. Census Bureau in Detroit, and as an associate editor for the Metro Times. In 1983, Boyd took graduate courses at the University of Iowa, and lectured there in the Black Studies Department. He has also written numerous articles since the 1980s as a freelance journalist for publications such as the New York Amsterdam News, Black World, Emerge, Essence, Down Beat, First World, and The Black Scholar.

In 1986, Boyd was hired as an instructor of African American history at the College of New Rochelle. Then, in the 1990s, he served as the editor of The Black World Today, an online news source that addressed issues of interest to the African American community. Boyd was then hired as a lecturer at the City College of New York in 2005.

Boyd has authored, co-authored, edited or co-edited twenty-three books, including Jazz Space Detroit: Photographs of Black music, jazz, and dance; African History for Beginners; Brotherman: The Odyssey of Black Men in America; Down the Glory Road; Autobiography of a People: Three Centuries of African-American History Told by Those Who Lived It; Race and Resistance: African Americans in the Twenty-first Century; The Harlem Reader: A Celebration of New York's Most Famous Neighborhood, from the Renaissance Years to the Twenty-first Century; We Shall Overcome: the history of the civil rights movement as it happened; Pound for Pound: A Biography of Sugar Ray Robinson; The Gentle Giant: The Autobiography of Yusef Lateef; Civil Rights: Yesterday & Today; By Any Means Necessary, Malcolm X: Real, Not Reinvented; Simeon's Story: An Eyewitness Account of the Kidnapping of Emmett Till; and Baldwin's Harlem: A Biography of James Baldwin, which was a 2009 NAACP Image Award finalist.

Boyd has also received many awards, including the American Book Award (with Robert Allen), a journalism award for an article he wrote for Emerge magazine in 1993, and several first-place awards from the New York Association of Black Journalists for articles he has published in the New York Amsterdam News. Boyd has also been inducted into the Literary Hall of Fame for Writers of African Descent, the Madison Square Garden Hall of Fame, and, in 2014, the National Association of Black Journalists Hall of Fame.

Herb Boyd was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on December 9, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.352

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/9/2013 |and| 12/12/2013

Last Name

Boyd

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Wayne State University

Northwestern University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Herb

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

BOY04

Favorite Season

Fall, Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Africa

Favorite Quote

By any means necessary.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

11/1/1938

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pasta

Short Description

Author and lecturer Herb Boyd (1938 - )

Employment

Dodge Motor Company

Wayne State University

New York Amsterdam News

College of New Rochelle

City College of New York

Favorite Color

Blue Outdoors, Brown Clothes, Red Clothes, Yellow Outdoors

Col. Will Gunn

U.S. Air Force Colonel Will A. Gunn was born in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida in 1959. Gunn graduated with military honors with his B.S. degree in management from the United States Air Force Academy in 1980. He went on to attend Harvard Law School where he was elected president of the Harvard Law School Legal Aid Bureau and graduated cum laude with his J.D. degree in 1986. Gunn also earned his LL.M. degree in environmental law from the George Washington University School of Law. His military education included graduating from the Air Command and Staff College in 1993; the Air War College in 1999; and, Industrial College of the Armed Forces with his M.S. degree in national resource strategy in 2002.

In 1990, Gunn was appointed as a White House Fellow and Associate Director of Cabinet Affairs under President George H.W. Bush. In 2003, Gunn was named the first ever Chief Defense Counsel in the Department of Defense Office of Military Commissions. In that position, he supervised all defense activities for detainees at Guantanamo Bay prison camp selected for trial before military commissions. This was the first proceedings of this to be conducted by the United States in over sixty years. Gunn retired from the military in 2005 after more than twenty years of service and was named president and CEO of the Boys & Girls Clubs of Greater Washington where he led one of the largest affiliates of Boys & Girls Clubs of America.

In 2008, he founded the Gunn Law Firm to provide local representation to military members and veterans in a range of administrative matters. Returning to government in 2009, Gunn was appointed General Counsel in the Department of Veteran’s Affairs. He has published articles in the Ohio Northern Law Review and the Air Force Law Review.Gunn served as chairman of the American Bar Association’s Commission on Youth at Risk. In addition, he served on the boards of Christian Service Charities and the Air Force Academy Way of Life Alumni Group.

Gunn has also received numerous awards and honors including the Harvard Legal Aid Bureau’s Outstanding Alumni Award, the Human Rights Award from the Southern Center for Human Rights, and the American Bar Association’s Outstanding Career Military Lawyer Award. In 2002, he was elected to the National Bar Association’s Military Law Section Hall of Fame. Gunn’s military honors include the Meritorious Service Medal with four oak leaf clusters and the Air Force Commendation Medal with one oak leaf cluster.

Colonel Will A. Gunn was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on June 21, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.158

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/26/2013

Last Name

Gunn

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

A.

Schools

Industrial College of the Armed Forces

George Washington University

Harvard Law School

Air Force Institute of Technology

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Will

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

GUN02

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Beaches

Favorite Quote

Just do it.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

12/14/1958

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Seafood

Short Description

Military officer and defense lawyer Col. Will Gunn (1958 - ) is the first ever Chief Defense Counsel for the Department of Defense Office of Military Commissions.

Employment

United States Department of Veterans Affairs

Gunn Law Firm

Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Washington

Office of Military Communications, U.S. Department of Defense

United States Air Force

Pope Air Force Base, United States Air Force

Favorite Color

Purple

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Will Gunn's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Will Gunn lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Will Gunn describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Will Gunn talks about the significance of Lowndes County as the Black Belt of Alabama and for the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Will Gunn talks about his maternal grandparents' jobs

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Will Gunn talks about his mother's growing up in Birmingham, Alabama and her career in social services

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Will Gunn talks about his family's move to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, in 1962

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Will Gunn describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Will Gunn talks about his father's growing up in Opelika, Alabama, his education at Miles College, and his profession as a teacher

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Will Gunn describes how his parents met, married and moved the family to Fort Lauderdale

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Will Gunn describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Will Gunn describes his family's road trip the summer of 1967, and his inspiration to become a lawyer

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Will Gunn talks about his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Will Gunn describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Will Gunn talks about his childhood home and neighborhood in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Will Gunn describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Will Gunn talks about going to Dania Beach, Florida as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Will Gunn describes his experience in elementary school

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Will Gunn talks about his family's involvement in Greater New Mount Olive Baptist Church in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Will Gunn talks about why he aspired to become a lawyer

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Will Gunn talks about his interests as a child

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Will Gunn recalls the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Will Gunn describes his experience in middle school in Davie, Florida

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Will Gunn talks about his height and his interest in basketball

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Will Gunn describes his experience playing basketball in high school, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Will Gunn describes his experience playing basketball in high school, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Will Gunn describes his academic performance and extracurricular activities in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Will Gunn recalls following the Watergate hearings on TV and his desire to become a lawyer

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Will Gunn talks about his mentors in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Will Gunn talks about his interest in applying to the ROTC programs in college

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Will Gunn talks about his decision to attend the Air Force Academy, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Will Gunn talks about his decision to attend the Air Force Academy, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Will Gunn talks about being accepted into the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Will Gunn describes his experience at the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Will Gunn talks about his mentors at the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Will Gunn talks about playing Flicker Ball at the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Will Gunn talks about his decision to become an Air Force Judge Advocate General (JAG)

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Will Gunn talks about various career paths after training at the U.S. Air Force Academy training

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Will Gunn talks about his instructors, General Malham Wakin and Captain Curtis Martin at the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Will Gunn talks about academics at the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Will Gunn talks about playing basketball at the U.S. Air Force Academy and becoming class president

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Will Gunn talks about the U.S Air Force Academy's football and basketball teams

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Will Gunn talks about getting into Harvard Law School on the Funded Legal Education Program (FLEP) program

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Will Gunn talks about his graduation from the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Will Gunn talks about his first assignment in the Minority Affairs Office at the U.S. Air Force Academy

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Will Gunn talks about his assignment at Hanscom Air Force Base and getting into Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Will Gunn talks about meeting his wife at Hanscom Air Force Base and getting married in 1982

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Will Gunn talks about his first impression of Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Will Gunn talks about the people who inspired him to apply to Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Will Gunn describes his experience and academics at Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Will Gunn talks about the teachers who influenced him at Harvard Law School

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Will Gunn talks about his mentors at Harvard Law School and his involvement in public service, pt. 1

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - Will Gunn talks about his mentors at Harvard Law School and his involvement in public service, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Will Gunn talks about his philosophy on public service

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Will Gunn talks about his involvement with the Black Law Students Association (BLSA) and the Harvard Legal Aid Bureau

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Will Gunn talks about his philosophy in practicing law

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Will Gunn reflects upon the history of race and law in the U.S. Armed Services

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Will Gunn describes his experience in the JAG Corps at Mather Air Force Base

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Will Gunn talks about his responsibilities as Area Defense Counselor and as a Circuit Defense Counsel

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Will Gunn talks about being selected as a White House Fellow in 1990

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Will Gunn talks about his experience as a White House Fellow

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Will Gunn talks about Clarence Thomas' controversial confirmation hearings as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$6

DAStory

5$7

DATitle
Will Gunn talks about his decision to become an Air Force Judge Advocate General (JAG)
Will Gunn talks about being selected as a White House Fellow in 1990
Transcript
Now I know in the, I've heard anyway there's a height limit in, in terms of being a pilot--$$Yes.$$--but uh, so even though you're in the [U.S.] Air Force would you, could you qualify to be a pilot at 6'7"?$$Yes. When I got to the Air Force Academy I was pilot-qualified. I had the, the thing that throws a lot of people off is the, is actually the eyesight and I had 20/20 vision and so I was pleased. I was happy to be pilot-qualified but flying was never a dream of mine. So I saw being at the Air Force Academy since they produce pilots, I saw being pilot-qualified as just a great a fringe benefit. The fact that, "Hey this is nice, nice to have." But it was interesting. For the first time in my life you know earlier I mentioned changing ambitions as I was coming up, which I don't think is all that uncommon. Well for the first time in my life I was around people at the Air Force Academy that I heard story after story of people saying things like, "Hey when I was like three or four years old and looked up and saw planes flying, I knew I wanted to fly planes." And there were so many people that I came into contact with that were at the Air Force Academy because of the desire that they had to fly and to be a pilot. That was never my passion. So as a senior at Academy because I was still pilot-qualified and just under the height, height requirements I had to take a course, pilot screening course, which led to being able to solo in a single engine Cessna. Well it was an interesting experience because I found myself getting air sick in, in the patterns as I was you know preparing to land and also during different maneuvers and such. And I really believe it was just my body telling me that, "Hey this is not your thing." And so I turned down the opportunity to go to pilot training because I was eventually able to get past the air sickness but it wasn't something that I was passionate about. On the other hand, I did have a couple of pre-law classes at the Air Force Academy. I did very, very well in those and thought that, "Hmm, maybe I want to be an Air Force JAG [Judge Advocate General]," and eventually that, that came to be.$$Okay.$Now in 1990 we have here that you became a White House Fellow?$$Yes.$$How did that come about?$$Well as a senior at the [U.S.] Air Force Academy I had, I had a friend, a young lady who came out for a visit, and she had with her this brochure about the White House Fellows program. And I took, I took a look at the brochure and it had biographies, short bios of the current class of White House Fellows and I saw it and said, "Wow! This is cut-out for me!" And, but ask I saw those bios and saw the things that the people had done at, at that stage in their career, I knew that I was far too junior for it. But I started to send off each year for the application and each application would have the bios of the current class and the, it became a goal of mine to become a White House Fellow. Finally in 1989 I suppose I appli-well actually 1988 I applied for the first time for the White House Fellows program and I made it after filling out the application I made it to the regionals. I had a regional interview in Los Angeles [California] and felt I'd just had a great day but I didn't make it to the national finals. I actually had a mentor, a guy by the name of Pat Sweeny, who is a black JAG [Judge Advocate General], who was a colonel military judge who presided over my, one of my first cases as, as a prosecutor, who talked to me about the program. Now I was already aware of it but he then a Fellow I believe in the, during the [President Ronald] Reagan Administration and early in the Reagan Administration. And so he became a person that I called upon for advice on the White Fellows program. Well that first year as I said when I went for the regional interviews I had a great day but part of the application asked for you to send in a draft or a memo, a policy memorandum proposing some type of policy to the President of the United States. And you know it wouldn't actually get to the president but they wanted to see how well you write, wrote and how, how well you reason. Well my policy proposal that year as, since I was serving as a defense counsel in particular. I said, well I want to write; I wrote about the, how the military should repeal this ban on gay service members because it didn't make sense to me that in all volunteer force we were getting rid of people because they were gay and when, if we came into a time of conflict, that person who's serving and all they'd have to say is "I'm sorry. I have to leave now. I'm gay." And (laughs) that just didn't, didn't strike me as, as making a whole lot of sense. And so I argued the case and so I sent that in as my policy proposal. After finding out that I was not selected, I got a letter from one of the interviewers and he told me that he was disappointed that I hadn't been selected and encouraged me that if I was interested I should reapply. But also told me that while he didn't agree with my policy proposal, he believed that that had distracted some of the other interviewers--$$[unclear]$$--while, during their deliberations, while no one would admit to it he firmly believed that there were some that were uncomfortable with that proposal and therefore they marked me down. Well the next year I, I suppose I was, I didn't keep the same policy proposal. I wrote on something different and that year I got, I got all the way through and I was named a White House Fellow there in the, in early June of, of 1990. And came to [Washington] D.C. [District of Columbia] a few weeks later for a series of interviews to figure out where I was going to be placed and the fellowship year begins right around, right after Labor Day and it was a phenomenal year.$$

Matthew George

Biochemist Matthew George was born on February 15, 1949 in Birmingham, Alabama. George was awarded an undergraduate scholarship to attend Wiley College in Marshall, Texas where he received his B.S. degree in chemistry and biology in 1971. George went on to earn his M.S. degree in microbiology and biochemistry in 1974 from Atlanta University (now Clark Atlanta University). In 1982, George graduated with his Ph.D. degree in biochemistry from the University of California, Berkeley.

From 1981 to 1984, George studied genetics and biochemistry at the San Diego Zoo and the National Cancer Institute in Frederick, Maryland. George’s career at Howard University College of Medicine began in 1984 when he became an assistant professor of biochemistry. In 1992, he was promoted to associate professor. George’s research focused on the evolution and interactions of mitochondrial DNA as well as cancer metastasis. He was instrumental in the development of the “mitochondrial Eve hypothesis,” which attempts to explain the origin of humankind. George studies the molecular structure and behavior of mitochondrial DNA which traced humans back to a common ancestor that lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Between 1995 and 1997, George served as senior scientist on the African Burial Ground Project where he traced 200 year old remains back to West African locations by analyzing DNA from bones. Since 2001, George has served as chair of the Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at Howard University College of Medicine.

George has authored numerous scientific research articles, which have appeared in journals such as the Journal of Molecular Biological Evolution. In addition, his research has been funded by prestigious organizations such as the National Institute of Health, the National Cancer Institute and the National Center for Human Genome Research. His research on mitochondrial DNA was featured in the exhibit “Science in American Life,” found in the Smithsonian National Museum of American History. In addition to his research, George has mentored research students including several dissertation prize winners.

George lives in Silver Spring, Maryland with his wife Yolanda George, who is an education program director at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

George Matthew was interviewed by The HsitoryMakers on January 17, 2013.

Accession Number

A2013.013

Sex

Male

Interview Date

1/17/2013

Last Name

George

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Occupation
Schools

Wiley College

Clark Atlanta University

University of California, Berkeley

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Matthew

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

GEO02

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France, Florence, Italy

Favorite Quote

Be good.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

2/15/1949

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pie (Sweet Potato)

Short Description

Biochemist and geneticist Matthew George (1949 - ) served as the senior scientist on the African Burial Ground Project in New York City.

Employment

Atlanta University

University of California, Berkeley

San Diego Zoo

National Cancer Institute

Howard University

National Center for Human Genome Research

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
1308,0:3200,22:3716,39:5522,66:7156,96:8102,110:9134,128:9994,141:14640,201:14928,206:15936,222:16440,230:17016,243:20159,275:22334,309:25064,326:28260,402:31388,460:31932,469:32272,475:42751,574:46837,602:47232,608:47627,614:48417,627:51450,654:52122,662:54524,683:55226,699:55442,704:57717,724:58515,731:59180,737:61755,746:62800,760:65814,784:67062,806:67530,813:67920,820:68388,827:69168,841:69870,854:70260,863:71352,877:71820,884:73146,905:76720,914:83540,1027:86984,1079:97270,1214:97640,1220:103708,1395:104004,1400:105040,1421:113179,1493:114635,1519:125016,1644:129420,1688:131740,1722:138640,1785:142420,1842:142840,1847:146378,1873:147104,1887:149506,1910:149794,1915:150154,1921:151522,2001:160613,2084:161068,2090:161705,2099:162069,2104:165285,2114:169118,2151:169854,2159:171050,2177:174176,2198:176687,2267:177335,2276:177740,2282:178712,2305:181704,2325:182192,2335:183229,2356:189142,2499:189718,2510:192640,2549:193144,2562:195185,2587:196291,2609:199159,2628:199597,2660:200765,2679:201203,2687:204785,2706:205235,2714:205835,2724:206660,2783:207935,2800:215066,2918:215528,2928:216056,2937:217244,2958:221666,3078:227748,3115:228568,3126:235580,3215:236660,3249:237899,3266:240555,3378:242713,3393:250910,3440:255572,3578:264085,3686:264345,3692:266165,3737:266880,3752:267140,3757:272080,3876:272470,3883:273055,3893:273835,3913:278210,3951:281291,4032:284846,4093:285557,4103:285952,4109:294190,4214:294830,4223:295150,4228:302426,4312:303098,4321:305618,4367:306794,4382:321860,4451:326200,4532:326965,4539:330620,4626:337466,4669:339884,4711:340898,4722:341210,4727:342848,4759:343628,4773:347330,4827:350588,4879:351470,4904:356060,4921$0,0:6338,63:7076,73:8060,92:10110,130:10684,138:11176,145:12898,178:16424,233:26674,416:27904,437:28314,442:34800,486:40942,602:54558,936:59964,955:60887,975:61171,980:65644,1083:66283,1095:74668,1228:79192,1287:88864,1467:95560,1487:98853,1547:114446,1728:115440,1748:115795,1754:118990,1802:120978,1839:121333,1845:128047,1931:134455,2046:135345,2057:135790,2063:140114,2078:141574,2112:147487,2222:147925,2230:148655,2241:149093,2248:149677,2258:150991,2263:162810,2365:166294,2457:166838,2466:190490,2804:191820,2828:192100,2833:196160,2924:196440,2929:196930,2937:200570,3026:201060,3034:204490,3116:204770,3121:210502,3143:215586,3233:215996,3239:225115,3399:227590,3451:227890,3456:228415,3464:244689,3705:245045,3710:245579,3718:246380,3728:261304,3902:264406,3936:276681,4085:277178,4093:289532,4326:290100,4337:290668,4346:291307,4359:309766,4540:310756,4552:315565,4570:316925,4589:323215,4710:330780,4859:343208,4994:344948,5022:346514,5046:348950,5083:360224,5174:360928,5184:365064,5248:376000,5371
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Matthew George's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Matthew George lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about his mother, her growing up and his maternal grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his father's relationship with his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his father's growing up, his career, and his paternal relatives

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about how his parents met and his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Matthew George talks about his likeness to his parents and his parents' relationship

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Matthew George describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Matthew George describes his childhood home in the Loveman's Village projects

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Matthew George talks about growing up in the projects and his influence on his brothers and sisters

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Matthew George talks about his childhood memories, his upbringing in the church, and the evolution of his religious views

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about his appreciation of the newspaper and the bombing incidents in Birmingham during the Civil Rights Era

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his academic performance and his work ethic

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his elementary school teacher, Annie Mae Mitchell Smith

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about his father's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Matthew George talks about his mother's concerns about the Civil Rights Movement and the origin of the derogatory term, "bama"

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Matthew George talks about his childhood aspirations, his desire to be different, and his world view during his youth

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Matthew George talks about his high school's curricular structure

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about his experience being inducted into the National Honor Society in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his extracurricular activities and his social status in high school

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his high school counselor, Ms. Coman, and her influence on his decision to attend Wiley College

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about his decision to major in science at Wiley College and preparing for his high school Salutatorian speech

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Matthew George talks about his influence on his brothers and sisters

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Matthew George talks about his jobs during school

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Matthew George talks about segregation in Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about his trip to Marshall, Texas and his first night at Wiley College

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his peers and the positive intellectual environment at Wiley College

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his decision to major in science and his experience at Wiley College

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about his studies, his professors, and his financial aid at Wiley College

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Matthew George talks about his professors at Atlanta University

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Matthew George talks about the faculty at Atlanta University and meeting his wife

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Matthew George talks about his wife and the birth of his son

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about him and his wife's experiences defending their theses

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about moving to California

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his admittance to and his financial aid at the University of California, Berkeley

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about the difference between covert racism and overt racism

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Matthew George talks about how he matched with his Ph.D. Advisor, Allan C. Wilson

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Matthew George talks about his advisor's research interests

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about mitochondrial DNA and the mitochondrial Eve

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his colleague, Rebecca Cann, and his experiences working with her

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his work with his doctoral advisor and his experience getting his dissertation completed

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about his research with Oliver Ryder at the San Diego Zoo

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Matthew George describes his postdoctoral research at the National Cancer Institute, his appointment to Howard University, and his teaching influences

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Matthew George talks about his student, Daryl Basham, and the use of DNA fingerprinting in criminal investigation

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about the ethics regarding genetic testing and the risks associated with modifying DNA sequencing

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his work on the African Burial Ground Project with Michael Blakey

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about working with his wife

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about the challenges of doing research at an HBCU

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Matthew George reflects on his career

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Matthew George reflects on his legacy

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Matthew George talks about his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Matthew George talks about his family

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Matthew George talks about his experience at the Science and American Life exhibit and being recognized

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Matthew George talks about how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Matthew George describes his photos

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$7

DAStory

3$4

DATitle
Matthew George talks about his experience being inducted into the National Honor Society in high school
Matthew George talks about his work on the African Burial Ground Project with Michael Blakey
Transcript
Also, during the 11th grade, one of my friends she came to me and said "Something good is gonna happen to you today." "What the heck are you talking about?" So you know we have assembly, and where you have these (unclear) monthly meetings and everything, and so I'm there in assembly with a bunch of my other friends, and I'm looking at the program, it's--you think it's gonna be dumb and boring which most of them were, but that particular day it's about the National Honor Society and suddenly you hear your name (laughter).$$So you were on it but didn't know it.$$Had no clue, but she knew. And the other thing about it was that it was a lot of other project kids that were being inducted at the same time. So we had the middle class kids who normally, you know, get inducted, and then there was us. It almost like a little first; it was like we were like the project slash ghetto kids being culled in with the middle class--the kids from the Honeysuckle Circles and the Honeysuckle Hills.$$Now that's a real name of a real group?$$Honeysuckle Circle, Honeysuckle Hill, okay? That was the name of the neighborhood. If you had a couple of bucks, you could get you a nice brick house, you could be an upper-class black person and you lived it. Fred Shuttlesworth (laughter); that's when it got bombed (laughter), okay? (Simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous)--On Honeysuckle Hill?$$Yeah, or something like that. But here's the kicker, and Yolanda's gonna get me for this (laughter). "Don't call any names." I'm sorry, it's a part of my life. Reverend [John Wesley] Rice lived in the Honeysuckle Circles and the Honeysuckle Hills. And he was the high school counselor.$$And Reverend Rice is the father of our former Secretary of State?$$Condoleezza's daddy.$$Condoleezza, okay.$$Okay? And so here it is, we're more or less, you know, busting up the show because we may not be the right type of people (laughter), but they can't deny the numbers, you know. We got the GPA's, we got the grades and things like that, but never once--at least me, I don't know about the others, but during those three years in high school, I never was counseled by Reverend Rice about a possibility or an opportunity to go to college.$$So--well wait a minute; now you're saying that you're in a National Honor Society--$$Yes.$$--you clearly are working above the level of the general course (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous)--But again--$$--but (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous)--remember what--remember, from the very beginning what I was told by my mom [Rosetta Johnson] to do when I go to school, right? That was, that was my mind set. This is how naive, this is just how dutiful I was, this is what I do. This is what I--I followed orders, rules and regulations.$$And you were the first in your family to get that far because you're the oldest, right?$$Yeah, oh yeah.$$So (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous)--Yeah, I'm, I'm--every step I take you know, I'm breaking ground.$$Yeah, and I guess they're looking forward to just you graduating from high school, right?$$Exact--this is--they told me "All we can give you is a high school education. Everything else is on your own. This is why we cannot give you $35.00 for vocational school. We can make certain that you have enough food to eat, the lights on, heat is on, gas, all that kind of stuff. We will give you what you need. I will wash your clothes, I will iron your clothes, okay? You do the rest, okay?"$$But to think of Reverend Rice (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous)--I'm not trying to--$$(Simultaneous)--a counselor, I know you're not trying to do that, but if this is--I believe what you're saying that he didn't do it. If he didn't counsel you then, you know, he's missing an opportunity--I don't know if everybody with your qualifications didn't get counseled, but that seems like a really--that seems like something that really slipped by; a really important person that slipped past him that he should have helped.$$Well, like I said, it wasn't just me I mean--as I said, there were several other project kids that were also inducted at the time. It was the strangest honor society that they've ever had, you know. We weren't the best dressed, we weren't the most well-spoken or anything like that, but we were the kids that got the job done. We did well academically, and the rankings said this is where we belong, and once we got into the honor society for our high school, the whole set of dynamics changed, your know; it really changed. And we became little heroes, if you will, to all of the people that did not live in the Honeysuckle Circles and the Honeysuckle Hills; they were just like 'bout time, thank you guys, okay--and girls because it wasn't just guys, I mean there were some females that were inducted that year and they also didn't live in the right places. But as a little collective and as a group, they were so proud of us because we were them; we were them.$$Okay.$Now this is something that's really important for--in a lot of different ways in terms of a history project like I was in, is the African Burial Ground Project in New York City. Tell us--I guess you can just set it up by saying that construction workers discovered a gravesite--$$Emm hmm.$$--that was identified by archeologists, I guess, as an African burial ground--$$Right.$$--a place where Africans brought over here enslaved in New York City unloading boats and that sort of thing back in the 1600's I guess (simultaneous)--$$Yeah, today the bones are like--well we said 200 years old, so you can just extrapolate to, yeah.$$So the decision was to study those (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous)--Well, right.$$(Simultaneous)--(Inaudible response).$$(Simultaneous)--Yeah, Michael Blakey, who used to be here in the Anthropology Department, was very much interested in that because, not only--by looking at the bones solely, you could look at--you could also tell about the work conditions, where the breaks occurred; is it on the clavicle, is it on the ribs, and things like that. Look in the clothing, what else is in the coffin gives you an idea what type of life these people led. The question then becomes well, where did these people come from? What is the origin of the skeletal remains? And so he wanted to have a genetic component to it, so from the anthropological part and sociological part, he was expert in that and he'd asked me to come on as a senior scientist to do the genetic part, so part of what I had wanted to do was to not only do that by using mitochondrial DNA because I knew how to isolate DNA from what we now call ancient materials--anything that's extinct or old--because you can do this technique called a Polymerase Chain Reaction so even minute amounts--you can put in specific little pieces of DNA to get large pieces of DNA back. Then you do DNA sequence and then you can see--compare what these sequences are closely related to in terms of different ethnic groups.$$What's that process called again?$$PCR, the Polymerase Chain Reaction. When that technique was developed, the person immediately got a Nobel Prize (laughter), okay? This is what gets people in trouble; this is your CSI. This is where your single strand of hair with a hair root and some DNA, this is what can be amplified to get--this is enough working material. Your DNA does not have to be purified; you put in the right set of primers, okay, that will actually allow you to amplify a specific set of sequences--that gold standard set of sequences, and they turn out to be yours, they got you. Lick a stamp, smoke a cigarette, wherever you get cells; this is why they say just rub the cheek cells, boom; break them open and DNA will spill out, get your probes in, and you're good. So I wanted to use that technique by using hair samples, so I just use--and you wanted--since the technique is so sensitive, you've got to make certain that your sample is not contaminated, to you have to test yourself, you have to test the workers around you to make certain that the sequences that you finally get back are those only from the bone. So I'd also wanted to mix in trained graduate students in Howard to use this technique and so it takes time when you're trying to get students who have little to no experience in a laboratory. So my end of the deal was a little bit slower than Michael would have like to see and this is where Rick Kittles came in; he's working solo, independent at NIH [National Institutes of Health] and everything like that; all he's doing is research. But that's beside the point; in the end, using the set of primers that I had for mitochondrial DNA and doing the DNA sequence, we were able to determine that the skeletal remains were from a region in West Africa, in a so-called Yoruba Tribe, and that worked out really well. And the other thing about grave sites like that is that, just as I told you early on about working for a dollar and a dime cutting grass in Elmwood Cemetery, slave graves were always kept separate from the white graves too, so that's another thing that made it useful in terms of like 'hey, what we're gonna find here is simply gonna be a slave or African origin,' and so that led the sociology and sociological part of anthropology as well, so then physical anthropologies, bones, the cultural parties, the social anthropology, so it's a huge team, large effort; and I think it paid off in a whole number of ways.$$Okay. So, you started this project in 1995--$$Emm hmm.$$--and I think it reached its conclusion with a publication of the findings (simultaneous)--$$Right, in 2009--$$(Simultaneous)--2009. Okay, that was a long time.$$Yeah, there was a lot of work. And you know, if you were to take a look on my book shelf, you could see--it was funded by the GSA, the government--what is it, the Government Services Administration?$$Emm hmm.$$Yeah. It was General Services Administration.$$Emm hmm.$$It was a tremendous number of people, and some things--there was some politics involved in it amongst us as scientists as well, so that probably added to it taking so long, and then plus with Michael transferring out to a school in Virginia. But Michael was a visionary and a strong advocate for this particular program, and I appreciate the time and effort that he spent, you know, in getting all of us involved in it.

William Jackson

Chemist and academic administrator William M. Jackson was born on September 24, 1936 in Birmingham, Alabama. He received his B.S. and Ph.D. degrees in chemistry from Morehouse College in 1956 and Catholic University of America, CUA in 1961, respectively. His expertise is in photochemistry, lasers chemistry, and astrochemistry.

Jackson has been a research scientist in industry at Martin Co (now Lockheed-Martin) and the government at the National Bureau of Standards (now the National Institute of Standards and Technology) and NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC). He has been an academician at the University of Pittsburgh (1969-1970), Howard University (1974-1985), and the University of California, Davis (UCD). He joined the faculty at UCD as a chemistry professor in 1985. He then became a distinguished professor in 1998, and chair of the chemistry department from 2000 to 2005. He was awarded millions of dollars in research and education grants and has taught and mentored under representative minority students at Howard University and UCD. Under his direction, the minority student population of the UCD chemistry graduate students increased. He continues to do research, as well as, recruiting and mentoring minority students in chemistry, even though he is officially retired.

In the field of astrochemistry, Jackson observed comets with both ground-based and satellite telescopes and used laboratory and theoretical studies to explain how the radicals observed in comets are formed. He led the team that made the first satellite (IUE) telescope cometary observation. His laboratory developed tunable dye lasers to detect and determine the properties of free radicals formed during the photodissociation of stable molecules. He continued to use lasers in the laboratory to map out the excited states of small molecules important in comets, planetary atmospheres, and the interstellar medium decompose into reactive atoms and radicals and are important in the chemistry of these astronomical bodies. Jackson published over 176 scientific papers, has a United States patent, and has edited two books.

Jackson is the recipient of many awards from universities and scientific organizations. They include the National Organization of Black Chemists and Chemical Engineers (NOBCChE) Percy Julian Award (1986), a Guggenheim Foundation Fellowship (1989), the CUA alumni award for scientific achievements (1991), the Alexander von Humboldt Senior Research Award (1996), the Morehouse College Bennie Trail Blazer award (2011) and election as a Fellow in the American Physical Society (1995), in the American Association for the Advancement of Science (2004) in, and American Chemical Society (2010). He is one of the six founders of NOBCChE; and in 1996, the Planetary Society named asteroid 1081 EE37 as (4322) Billjackson in his honor for contributions to planetary science.

William M. Jackson was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on November 6, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.212

Sex

Male

Interview Date

11/6/2012 |and| 12/2/2017

Last Name

Jackson

Maker Category
Middle Name

M

Occupation
Schools

Catholic University of America

Morehouse College

Central High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

William

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

JAC32

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Anywhere Warm

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

9/24/1936

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Davis

Country

United States

Favorite Food

None

Short Description

Astrophysicist William Jackson (1936 - ) was one of the founders of NOBCChE and a fellow of the APS, ACS, and AAAS. He also had an asteroid named in his honor.

Employment

University of California, Davis

University of Pittsburgh

Howard University

Diamond Ordinance Fuse Laboratory

Martin Marietta Corporation

National Bureau of Standards (NBS)

National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Goddard Space Flight Center

University of California Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory

National Taiwan University

Goddard Space Flight Center

Favorite Color

None

Timing Pairs
0,0:15515,163:28614,193:32145,244:33108,254:36104,392:50357,444:65905,624:106326,920:107318,930:125850,1129:132891,1200:136092,1265:137062,1277:137450,1282:142670,1340:143070,1346:146700,1412:174982,1720:194302,1908:194944,1916:248236,2373:258401,2418:259065,2432:259729,2441:260476,2453:261057,2461:269300,2514:275081,2573:278615,2662:303612,2919:308022,2994:308984,3017:309576,3027:322600,3210:323400,3219:327762,3271:332861,3425:335840,3503:360564,3743:365566,3793:366076,3799:366484,3804:367198,3817:385084,4000:417774,4337:418458,4347:435998,4464:437131,4476:437955,4485:442584,4496:443352,4503:445000,4510:452140,4589:452524,4594:454636,4640:488588,4878:489596,4901:495116,4954:495980,4981:499688,5025:501436,5059:502880,5086:503412,5094:503716,5099:512834,5201:514210,5267:519800,5297:521720,5327:522488,5334:522968,5340:540610,5423$0,0:903,13:2193,33:18834,251:26954,263:27489,269:34837,371:39167,401:40278,414:66847,667:90950,892:98650,974:99090,979:104730,1003:113942,1043:115760,1054:132349,1188:137302,1243:148473,1363:158424,1483:165220,1513:173958,1636:189736,1864:206443,2022:216494,2127:217421,2137:242962,2378:263669,2516:266295,2553:279324,2682:324451,3145:324906,3151:359621,3469:380579,3652:401920,3852
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of William Jackson's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - William Jackson lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes his mother's family baclground

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - William Jackson describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - William Jackson describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes his father's educational background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - William Jackson describes how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - William Jackson talks about his parents' personalities

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - William Jackson describes his siblings

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes the sights, smells, and sounds of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - William Jackson describes the racial climate of Birmingham, Alabama in his youth

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - William Jackson talks about his home on Dynamite Hill

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes the difference between "black" and "colored"

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - William Jackson describes his experience with polio

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - William Jackson describes his involvement in sports

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes his recovery from polio

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes his experience at Immaculate Catholic School

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - William Jackson talks about his decision to attend Morehouse College

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - William Jackson describes his experience at Morehouse College

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes his social life at Morehouse College

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - William Jackson talks about Dr. Benjamin Mays

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - William Jackson talks about Omega Psi Phi Fraternity

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - William Jackson talks about those that influenced him

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - William Jackson talks about his decision to attend the Catholic University of America

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - William Jackson describes his influences at the Catholic University of America

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - William Jackson talks about meeting is wife

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - William Jackson describes his research

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - William Jackson talks about completing his Ph.D. degree

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes his work at the Martin-Marietta Company and the National Bureau of Standards

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes his work at the Goddard Space Flight Center

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - William Jackson describes the faculty at Howard University

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - William Jackson describes his work at the University of Pittsburgh

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes his inspiration for building his laser

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - William Jackson describes his work at Howard University

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes his decision to work at the University of California, Davis

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes his work at the University of California and abroad

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - William Jackson talks about efforts to produce more minority Ph.D.s in science (part 1)

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - William Jackson talks about efforts to produce more minority Ph.D.'s in science (part 2)

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - William Jackson talks about his work as Chair of the Chemistry Department at University of California, Davis

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - William Jackson describes his early interest in chemistry, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes his early interest in chemistry, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - William Jackson talks about his decision to become a physical chemist

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - William Jackson describes how he came to attend Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - William Jackson talks about his research assistant position at Catholic University of America

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - William Jackson remembers his classmates at Catholic University of America

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - William Jackson talks about his Ph.D. work at the National Bureau of Standards, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - William Jackson talks about his Ph.D. work at the National Bureau of Standards, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - William Jackson talks about the instruments he used in his Ph.D. work

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes the history of instruments and processes in chemistry

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes his work at Martin Marietta Corporation

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - William Jackson describes his reasons for leaving Martin Marietta Corporation, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - William Jackson describes his reasons for leaving Martin Marietta Corporation, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - William Jackson recalls his reasons for returning to the National Bureau of Standards

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - William Jackson describes his research at the National Bureau of Standards

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - William Jackson remembers his coworkers at the National Bureau of Standards

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - William Jackson describes his experiences with racial discrimination at Martin Marietta Corporation

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - William Jackson talks about the role of the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - William Jackson talks about his family

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - William Jackson recalls his reasons for leaving the Goddard Space Flight Center

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - William Jackson describes his role at the Goddard Space Flight Center, pt. 1

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes his role at the Goddard Space Flight Center, pt. 2

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - William Jackson talks about his research on photodissociation at the Goddard Space Flight Center

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - William Jackson talks about his research of free radicals using tunable light sources

Tape: 9 Story: 9 - William Jackson talks about the applications of his work in free radicals

Tape: 9 Story: 10 - William Jackson remembers the formation of NOBCChE

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - William Jackson talks about the creation of NOBCChE, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - William Jackson talks about the creation of NOBCChE, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - William Jackson describes the NOBCChE's Minority Resource Centers for Science and Engineering, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - William Jackson describes the NOBCChE's Minority Resource Centers for Science and Engineering, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - William Jackson talks about the early years of the Minority Resource Centers for Science and Engineering

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - William Jackson talks about women in the sciences

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - William Jackson remembers the faculty and staff of the Howard University Department of Chemistry

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - William Jackson talks about the funding of the Howard University Department of Chemistry

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - William Jackson remembers his professorship at Howard University in Washington, D.C.

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - William Jackson describes his sabbatical at the University of Erlangen-Nuremberg in Erlangen, Germany

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - William Jackson recalls his reasons for coming to the University of California, Davis, pt. 1

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - William Jackson recalls his reasons for coming to the University of California, Davis, pt. 2

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - William Jackson talks about his rank of professorship at the University of California, Davis

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes his positions at the University of California, Davis

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - William Jackson talks about the lack of African American professors at the University of California, Davis

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - William Jackson describes his role as chair of the chemistry department at the University of California, Davis

Tape: 11 Story: 9 - William Jackson talks about his research at the University of California, Davis

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - William Jackson describes his research in surface chemistry

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - William Jackson talks about the implications of his research on climate change

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - William Jackson talks about the effect of politics on the STEM industries

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - William Jackson reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - William Jackson remembers the Ph.D. students he taught

Tape: 12 Story: 6 - William Jackson describes the role of a Ph.D. mentor and advisor

Tape: 12 Story: 7 - William Jackson reflects upon his life

Tape: 12 Story: 8 - William Jackson shares his advice for aspiring chemists

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$5

DAStory

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DATitle
William Jackson describes his experience at Morehouse College
William Jackson describes his work at the Goddard Space Flight Center
Transcript
Okay, alright. So, okay, Morehouse. So, now was it much more challenging at Morehouse than it was in high school?$$I didn't get all A's, so yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was.$$Okay. Now, at Morehouse there was the great Dr. Henry McBay that everybody talks about.$$Right.$$We hear his name over and over again in these interviews.$$Right.$$What was your relationship like with Dr. McBay? What was he like?$$I did not take chemistry in high school, and I told you, my stepfather was a dentist. School started on a Monday, so the way I was going to get to Morehouse, he had to drive me up there. And so, he was going to drive me up there on, he wanted to leave on Saturday morning. And Mobile is about 250 miles from Atlanta, and then there were no interstate highways in those days, 1952. So, Harry Truman was president, and the interstate didn't come in until Eisenhower was elected. And he started it. So, he wanted to drive up that weekend. I think we started, and he had to come back so he wouldn't have to close his practice for the half a day on Saturday. So, we left, and I got there a couple days earlier than most of the freshmen, than all of the freshmen, in fact. It was early enough for me to talk to the upper classmen who were going to be assigned to work with the freshmen when they got there. In fact, when the other freshmen got there, they thought I was an upper classman. But in talking to the upper classmen, they said, "Well, what are you going to major in?" I said, "I'm going to major in math." They said, "Well, that's good. Don't take chemistry, because McBay is going to flunk you." At that point in my life, I didn't, you know, I was, I didn't believe that. And I didn't, I took it as a challenge, you know. I enrolled in general chemistry. Fortunately, I got a C the first semester and a B the second semester. But I got hooked. I liked the way, I mean, he made it interesting. He was a very good lecturer. He was very difficult, but I thought he was very fair. He didn't give you anything, but he didn't take anything away from you.$$So, you didn't start off setting the world on fire in chemistry. You got a C. Now, you're like fourteen years old, or fifteen?$$Fifteen.$$Fifteen, okay.$$My son did better in chemistry than I did.$$Okay.$$But, yeah, I got a C, but that's okay. I mean, you asked me my relationship with him. After I finished college, and got finished with graduate school, and started publishing papers, we had a very good relationship. When I finished Morehouse, he wanted me to stay at Atlanta University and get a master's degree. And I didn't see any reason why I should do that, even though my grades weren't that good. So, I had been accepted to Northwestern [Northwestern University] and Purdue [Purdue University], but couldn't go because I didn't have any money to go, and they didn't give me any assistantship. So, I moved up to Washington, D.C. [District of Columbia] because I had a cousin there, who said, "Well, with your degree in chemistry you can get a job in the federal government." So, I went around all that summer looking for jobs in the federal government. But in the process, I knew I wanted to go into physical chemistry. And I kept asking, well what's the best school for physical chemistry? And they kept saying Catholic University, which was about a mile from where I was staying with my cousin.$$I want to stop this right here and then go back. We skipped the whole Morehouse experience, which we need to get to before we get you to graduate school. And Morehouse, I mean, you were telling me when we were walking around the campus earlier with you, your roommate was Maynard Jackson, right?$$Yeah, my freshman roommate.$$Your freshman roommate. And there was another student there that people might know, another one was Charles Brown, right?$$Right.$$Who's a Reverend. You didn't have any idea that he was going to be a Reverend at the time?$$No. Let's see. There were a lot of people there. I mean there was Charles Brown, there was Maynard Jackson, there was Till, who only stayed two years. After the first two years he went back to Texas and got his undergraduate degree and became a neurosurgeon, and teaches at Howard University Medical School.$$What's his name?$$Till, T-I-L-L.$$Okay.$$Aaron Jackson was a chemistry major. He died recently, but was a urologist. He taught at Howard University. Major Owens, who was and still is a Congressman from New York. And that's only a small number of the ones that come to my mind right now.$$Now, you weren't the only early admitted student, right? So, there were other--$$One, everyone that I named was an early admitted student. There were about twenty five or thirty of us. Most of them were really smart. And a guy from Chicago by the name of Joe Carl, I remember him. I can't remember all the people in the class at this stage. But it was a pretty--in fact, there are people who say we were the most famous class at Morehouse. There were others who tried to rival us, but given the fact that out of seventy five students, the accomplishments of that class were outstanding.$$Okay. So, but there were about thirty early admitted students?$$Right. But the program continued after that. Walter Massey, who was president of Morehouse, was a couple years later. So, I mean, there were--so there were, it was a pretty distinguished class.$Now this is, you're at Goddard's Space Flight Center at the beginning of, and I guess the most publicized era for U.S. space flight?$$That's right. So I mean, it was, Goddard, NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration] was getting money at that time. There were a couple of things that I did that you talked about. You asked me about astrochemistry. It was there that I started using my knowledge of chemistry and applying it to comets, which is what I was hired to do, and trying to understand the physical and chemical processes occurring in comets, and why they look the way the look, what they're made of. And so I started working on problems like that.$$How did you study the comet, I mean did you study the names of comets, or--$$Well, primarily, comets are studied by spectroscopic observation. You look at, use telescopes and measure the spectra. And spectra are the signatures for molecules in comets. And from the ground we can see signatures of free radicals like C-N, O-H, just barely. CN-OH, C-2, C-3 and N-H. That's the first clue. There's other things. You could just look at the orbits and see how the orbits change in periodic comets. And a famous scientist by the name of Fred Whipple figured out that when they evaporate material as they heat up going around the sun, that material, when you go to have a force go in one direction, it exerts in the equal and opposite direction, remembering the second law of motion. So, that slight motion changes the orbit, and if you measure it precisely, you can determine how much force was involved. And he wrote a really brilliant paper, where he used that information, and he came up with what we call the icy nucleus model. The comets are made up of frozen water with various materials inside, and when the water evaporates, it pushes back on the comet, and that's what causes this chain to orbit. And so, you look at that and you try to figure out well, then, how do free radicals come about? And we showed that they come about and that you can make sense out of it by photo association. That means light from the sun. Molecules absorb radiation from the sun and break apart. For example, water, H20, absorbs light and breaks apart H plus O-H, and we see the O-H. HCN breaks apart and gives you C-N plus H, and so forth and so on. So, I worked on those kinds of problems. I wrote a, NASA was setting up a telescope called the IUE telescope. They did ask for an ultraviolet exploratory telescope. And I used, I proposed that we could use their telescope to study the ultra violet emissions spectrum above the atmosphere of the earth, so that you could see things that you could not see from the earth.$$Now this is, correct me if I'm wrong. This is about 1974?$$The proposal was written to use a telescope, was written before that, because it takes five years to send up a satellite.$$Okay. You started, got it in '64' [1964].$$Right.$$That's ten ten years. That was in '74' [1974].$$'74' [1974]. We actually made the observations in '74' [1974], '75' [1975]. But I wrote, I was the principal investigator on the observations.$$And this is the first team to use the ultra violet explorer.$$Explorer, that's right. And the interesting thing, to me, was the astronomers who designed the telescope said we wouldn't get a big enough signal from a comet to be able to use it. But I showed that you, in fact, could do that. Because I showed them a piece of paper, and we actually made the first observations. The signal was about what I had predicted it was going to be. So, being a chemist, it felt good to prove the astronomers wrong.$$Okay. So--$$That telescope went on to make some of the most significant observations of comets.$$Okay.$$And the newer versions of the HST telescope and so forth is still making significant observations of comets.

Love Whelchel, III

Human resources chief executive Love Henry Whelchel, III was born on February 4, 1969 at St. Joseph’s Hospital in Birmingham, Alabama to Love H. Whelchel, Jr. and Larma Miller Whelchel. Whelchel grew up in the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church (CME) denomination where his father, Love Henry Whelchel, Jr. was a pastor. When the family lived in Durham, North Carolina, his father pastored Russell Memorial CME. In Dayton, Ohio his father was pastor of Phillips Temple CME. Whelchel graduated from Westchester High School in Los Angeles, California. There, he was mentored in African American history by his teacher, Ivan Baldwin. Following high school, Whelchel enrolled at Morris Brown College to study hotel and restaurant management. He is heavily involved in the debate team, matches trials, and befriends many international students.

Upon graduation, Whelchel was hired by New Leaf, Inc., a small publishing and distribution company. New Leaf eventually promoted him to a management position in the human resources department. In 1996, Whelchel began to work for the Atlanta Centennial Organizing Committee and the 1996 Olympic Games. Whelchel worked in managerial positions for several major corporations from 1996 to 2011, such as Top of the World and Global Conductor. Between 2004 and 2011, he worked in human resources at TBWA/Chiat/Day and Young and Rubicon Advertising Agency. There, Whelchel focused on issues of diversity and inclusion; especially, hiring and retaining minorities in upper-level management and executive positions.

In 2011, Sean Combs, chief executive officer and founder of Bad Boy World Wide Entertainment Group, hired Whelchel as his chief human resource officer. There, Whelchel oversees more than three-hundred employees and manages various businesses within Bad Boy, including restaurants, the Sean John clothing and accessories line, the Bad Boy Record Label and the Blue Flame marketing and consulting agency. Whelchel also focuses on global recruitment strategy, as well as and succession planning and associated development.

Love Henry Whelchel, III was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on 07/31/2012.

Accession Number

A2012.160

Sex

Male

Interview Date

7/31/2012

Last Name

Whelchel

Maker Category
Middle Name

H.

Organizations
Schools

Morris Brown College

First Name

Love

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

WHE04

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Latin America, Hawaii

Favorite Quote

Don't Make An Excuse. Make A Way.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

New York

Birth Date

2/4/1969

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

New York

Country

United States

Favorite Food

All Food

Short Description

Human resources chief executive Love Whelchel, III (1969 - )

Employment

Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Young & Rubicam

Atlanta Centennial Organizing Committee

TBWA/Chiat/Day

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Love Whelchel, III's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Love Whelchel, III lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his paternal family's religious background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his father and grandfather

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Love Whelchel, III talks about how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Love Whelchel, III describes his parents and his likeness to them

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Love Whelchel, III recalls his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Love Whelchel, III talks about moving frequently with his family because of his father's being a C.M.E. minister

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Love Whelchel, III describes the sights, sounds, and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Love Whelchel, III talks about funk music, funk musicians and hip hop in Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Love Whelchel, III talks about the political nature of hip hop

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Love Whelchel, III describes forming a miniature Black Panther Party at Immaculata Catholic School in Durham, North Carolina

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Love Whelchel, III talks about being Christian Methodist Episcopalian at a Catholic school

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his move to Dayton, Ohio

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Love Whelchel, III talks about some of his favorite teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Love Whelchel, III talks about attending Westchester High School in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Love Whelchel, III talks about how frequent moving affected his grades

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his heroes and immediate family

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Love Whelchel, III talks about church and other activities he participated in while growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his high school activities while at Westchester High School in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Love Whelchel, III talks about hip hop

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Love Whelchel, III describes his high school interest in owning hotels

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Love Whelchel, III talks about having difficulty earning enough credits to graduate from high school

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Love Whelchel, III talks about Spike Lee and deciding to attend Morris Brown College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Love Whelchel, III describes his undergraduate experience at Morris Brown College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Love Whelchel, III describes Atlanta, Georgia in the 1980s and 1990s

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Love Whelchel, III reflects on his education at Morris Brown College in Atlanta, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Love Whelchel, III talks about gang activity in Los Angeles, California

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his first job at New Leaf Distributing Company after graduating from Morris Brown College

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his involvement with the Atlanta Centennial Organizing Committee for the 1996 Olympics

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Love Whelchel, III talks about working for Recruiters International, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Love Whelchel, III talks about where he worked after leaving Recruiters International, Inc.

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Love Whelchel, III talks about the advertising firm TBWA\Chiat\Day

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Love Whelchel, III talks about working for the advertising firm Young & Rubicam

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Love Whelchel, III talks about recruiting more African Americans for mainstream advertising agencies

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his relationship with HistoryMaker Dr. Price Cobbs

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Love Whelchel, III talks about being recruited to work for Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Love Whelchel, III talks about Sean "Diddy" Combs

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Love Whelchel, III describes the culture at Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Love Whelchel, III describes the staff at Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his biggest challenge working for Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Love Whelchel, III talks about Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group internships and its international growth

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - Love Whelchel, III describes his role as head of human resources at Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Love Whelchel, III talks about the vision of Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Love Whelchel, III reflects on times when his employers' vision for a company has not matched up with his own

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Love Whelchel, III considers what makes a good work environment

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Love Whelchel, III talks about recruiting at Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Love Whelchel, III considers his legacy and what motivates him

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Love Whelchel, III describes his hopes and concerns for African American communities

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Love Whelchel, III considers what he might have done differently

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Love Whelchel, III talks about his family

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Love Whelchel, III describes how he would like to be remembered

DASession

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DATape

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DAStory

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DATitle
Love Whelchel, III talks about his involvement with the Atlanta Centennial Organizing Committee for the 1996 Olympics
Love Whelchel, III talks about being recruited to work for Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment Group
Transcript
Okay. So, you were saying that you got involved with the [1996 Summer] Olympic Organizing Committee, I guess, right?$$Yes.$$In '90 [1990]--$$The Atlanta Centennial--$$Okay.$$Organizing Committee for the '96 [1996] [Summer] Olympics [Atlanta, Georgia].$$Okay. So, this was the, was this the centennial of the City of Atlanta [Georgia]?$$This is the centennial. This was the one hundredth year. So, this was huge. So, I actually ended up, you know, because I had the distribution and some of the tech skills from New Leaf [Distributing Company], I was able to work with the technology for distributions at the Olympics. There were very few of these shipping systems that were built. So, since I had that skill, they tapped me to, to help out in that regard. That eventually became a management position for me. And, that was really my entry into human resources because I was charged with hiring a lot of folks to work in the mail and distribution centers.$$Okay. Now, this is, this is a time, we were saying off camera, was a time of tremendous amount of event organizing in Atlanta (simultaneously).$$Oh, yeah. A lot of opportunity in Atlanta during this period of time, from the, you know, the early '90s [1990s] through the late '90s [1990s]. I mean, you know, conventions, you know, the games, real estate boom, just anything that you could imagine; businesses growing, the dot com boom touched Atlanta. You know, so a lot was happening at that time which was the perfect storm for me to get into human resources because there was a lot of hiring. So, I left the Olympics and started working with recruiters, a company called Recruiters International [Inc.]. And, I was recruiting folks who would be upgrading systems for Y2K [Year 2000 Problem]. So, I certainly enjoyed that period of time. It kept me busy.$$Now, is there a story about the Olympics? Do you have a story about--that was such a big event.$$It's a big event. I mean--$$Were you there through the Olympics?$$I was there through the Olympics. So, I got a chance to attend the ceremonies, the events. I got a chance to meet a lot of the athletes. I remember Shaq [Shaquille O'Neal] had to hide in the, the shipping center (laughter). Because they would bring him through, by the freight elevators. And, unfortunately, I remember some not so great memories of the bombing. That was in Centennial Olympic Park which was directly across from where I worked. And, arriving in my office the following working with GBI [Georgia Bureau of Investigation] agents, you know, everywhere. And, it was a pretty sad time.$$Yeah. 'Cause they accused a security employee--$$It was a security employee.$$Of the games, right? (Simultaneously).$$Yeah, it was--yeah, he--yeah, he was initially accused--$$Richard, somebody, I can't think of his last name. Richard [Jewell], somebody, I can't--$$I don't recall. I picture his face vividly. But, yeah, he was wrongfully accused. So, yeah, it was a, it was a--so, we went from a really festive, you know, an amazing time and that was a, you know, that was a, a pretty rough patch. So, yeah, I remember that very vividly, and the divide in the city and, you know, it really, it really kind of, you know, took that innocence away from Atlanta, you know, being hit like that.$Now, how did you, when did you meet Sean ["Diddy"] Combs? When did you meet him before you got this position?$$I did not. I--the first time I meet Mr. Combs was when I interviewed with him.$$Okay.$$In Los Angeles [California].$$Well, tell--just walk us through, how did you, you knew about Bad Boys--$$Oh, yes. Absolutely.$$--[Bad Boys] Worldwide Entertainment [Group], right?$$Absolutely.$$And, did you--when did you think about like working for them or were you recruited or what happened?$$I was recruited. So, I was approached by a head hunter, who told me about the opportunity. And, I, like a, you know, a good husband (laughter), I talked to my wife about it. And, next thing I know I met with some of the executives, some of his core team here. And, shortly after that, I flew to Los Angeles to meet with Mr. Combs directly. And, it was a fascinating meeting.$$All right. So, we were talking about the beginnings with Bad Boy Entertainment. And, so, you were recruited and--$$Yes. I was recruited by a head hunter. The head hunter arranged for me to meet with some of the senior executive here. My final meeting was with Mr. Combs, and it was a, it was a fascinating meeting. I mean, the interview, you know, he asked some of the best questions that I've ever been asked in an interview. And, he knew exactly what he was looking for and that kind of just struck me as, you know, you know, odd. Because a lot of the CEOs that I've worked with in the past, you know, they use the HR function one way or the other. But, you know, a lot of 'em don't really have an opinion, you know, here or there about, you know, it's an HR function as a necessary evil, whatever. But, he knew exactly what he wanted and knew exactly what kind of questions to ask, you know, to get the proper executive for his organization. So, that really, that was really, that was really interesting.$$What kind of questions did Diddy ask you that--?$$He asked me, he basically did, you the behavior format and asked me, okay, he would give me a situation and how would you respond to this situation. So, then he drilled down, and this way he found out about how I would deal with employee relations. He asked me questions that would, that were associated with how I vetted talent. He ask me questions on how I would work with other senior leaders on his team. And, he asked me about what type of technology one would need in order to centralize his HR function. So, the questions, were very good and, you know, a meeting that could've lasted a few minutes, probably lasted, you know, about forty-five minutes or more. Because, you know, the questions, you know, he really drilled down.

Mary Bush

Financial executive and federal government official Mary K. Bush was born in 1948 in Birmingham, Alabama to Augusta and Johnny Bush. She graduated from Ullman High School in 1965 and received her B.A. degree, Phi Beta Kappa Magna Cum Laude, in economics and political science from Fisk University in 1969. Bush went on to receive her M.B.A. degree in finance in 1971 from the University of Chicago.

In 1971, she joined Chase Manhattan Bank in New York City as a credit analyst. From 1973 to 1976, Bush worked as an account officer for Citbank, and from 1976 to 1982, she worked as vice president and team leader for Bankers Trust Company. In 1982, she held the position of executive assistant to the deputy secretary for the United States Treasury. In 1984, President Ronald Reagan appointed Bush as United States alternate executive director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Four years later, Bush became vice president of international finance for the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae). In 1989, she served as managing director of the Federal Housing Finance Board for the Federal Home Loan Bank System. Bush founded her own global consulting firm, Bush International, LLC, in 1991. From 1994 to 1997, Bush hosted "Markets and Technology," a nationwide cable television program on global business and government policy. In 2006, she was appointed by President George W. Bush as chairman of the Helping to Enhance the Livelihood of People around the Globe Commission (HELP). Bush is a frequent television commentator and speaker on global business and financial matters and corporate governance. She has also advised the foreign governments of Bulgaria, the Republic of Korea, the Republic of the Philippines and the Republic of Singapore.

Bush has applied her financial and economic expertise on the board of directors of many companies including Discover Financial Services, The Pioneer Family of Mutual Funds, Mantech International Corporation and Marriott International. Bush also serves on the Investment Company Institute Board of Governors and on the boards of the Independent Directors Council and Capital Partners for Education. She also serves on the advisory boards of Stern Stewart International, the Global Leadership Foundation (US Advisory Board) and the Kennedy Center Community and Friends Advisory Board.

Mary K. Bush was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 7, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.055

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/7/2012

Last Name

Bush

Maker Category
Marital Status

Single

Schools

Ullman High School

Fisk University

University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Center Street Elementary School

First Name

Mary

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

BUS03

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Italy

Favorite Quote

To Thine Own Self Be True.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

4/9/1948

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Vegetables

Short Description

Financial executive and federal government official Mary Bush (1948 - ) served on the board of the International Monetary Fund, where she designed the Structural Adjustment Facility. She was also the vice president of international finance at Fannie Mae and the managing director of the Federal Housing Finance Board.

Employment

Bush International, LLC

NET (formerly America's Voice)

Federal Home Loan Bank System

Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae)

International Monetary Fund

United States Treasury Department

Bankers Trust Company

Citibank

Chase Manhattan Bank

Discover Financial Services

Marriot International

Pioneer Family of Mutual Funds

ManTech International Corporation

United Airlines

PEFCO

Brock Capital

First National City Bank

Mortgage Guaranty Insurance Corporation

American Security Bank

Briggs and Stratton

Texaco, Inc.

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
0,0:1235,12:7850,106:17180,167:21380,264:29520,330:29940,336:32964,394:33300,399:34056,409:34560,430:38004,531:43793,585:44885,602:45704,613:49435,683:49890,689:50436,697:52620,728:54440,756:55077,765:61059,799:62089,814:64355,840:64973,848:70180,865:71840,885:72172,890:73417,956:73749,961:79559,1066:79891,1071:85883,1112:87841,1154:88375,1161:88731,1166:89087,1171:94683,1233:95621,1257:97229,1276:98167,1293:98435,1298:99306,1315:99708,1323:102254,1416:110140,1480:110455,1486:111148,1498:113290,1539:113731,1548:114424,1561:115243,1582:117763,1631:118330,1641:119275,1661:124662,1690:126048,1726:126774,1753:127302,1759:128952,1791:130338,1827:130668,1833:138576,1931:138928,1945:139808,1957:140688,1970:141040,1991:152350,2103:152694,2108:153468,2118:156048,2162:157510,2206:159660,2236:161896,2268:170315,2332:184127,2496:184946,2505:193428,2626:197350,2659$40,0:356,5:4227,93:4543,98:7545,184:8730,196:13786,286:16630,329:17973,356:18368,362:19079,373:19711,382:20501,393:27463,466:29230,493:30532,510:37786,608:38251,620:47204,705:47860,714:48926,732:50074,748:50730,757:51632,770:52206,778:53108,791:53600,798:54338,812:54748,818:62424,892:63048,901:67930,941:68462,950:71888,982:72356,989:72668,994:73682,1008:75164,1034:75866,1044:77582,1067:78206,1076:80960,1087:82014,1116:82448,1125:82696,1130:85820,1162:86570,1174:86945,1180:88370,1200:88895,1208:90320,1232:90620,1237:91370,1247:91745,1253:92045,1258:93845,1278:94145,1283:94520,1289:96170,1324:106815,1448:107277,1454:108278,1473:113020,1517:113650,1527:114350,1539:114980,1549:115400,1556:115680,1561:116240,1577:116520,1582:117570,1602:119390,1639:119950,1648:120230,1653:120510,1658:123100,1719:123450,1725:124080,1737:124360,1742:130295,1806:132020,1845:133220,1877:133895,1889:134495,1900:134795,1917:136070,1939:136370,1944:136745,1959:137420,1978:139220,2010:141470,2052:145683,2068:146393,2079:147103,2090:147813,2103:149233,2125:151008,2163:151434,2169:151718,2174:152428,2186:153067,2196:153564,2205:154061,2213:155978,2246:156546,2255:163506,2324:168550,2382:173870,2460:175846,2490:176150,2495:177366,2515:177898,2523:178582,2534:178962,2540:180178,2558:185141,2580:185449,2585:185834,2591:189145,2642:189915,2654:191455,2693:195998,2764:197076,2780:197692,2789:203954,2834:206222,2858:210515,2911:211568,2930:212783,2956:213350,2965:229105,3180:232090,3192
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Mary Bush's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Mary Bush lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Mary Bush describes her maternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Mary Bush talks about her mother's education and occupation

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Mary Bush describes her father's occupation

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Mary Bush describes her paternal family background

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Mary Bush lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Mary Bush remembers her father's work ethic

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Mary Bush talks about her father's education

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Mary Bush describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Mary Bush describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Mary Bush remembers walking to elementary school

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Mary Bush talks about Center Street Elementary School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 14 - Mary Bush recalls her extracurricular activities

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Mary Bush remembers the Sixth Avenue Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Mary Bush recalls entering Samuel Ullman High School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Mary Bush remembers her neighbors in Birmingham, Alabama, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Mary Bush remembers her neighbors in Birmingham, Alabama, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Mary Bush reflects upon her experiences at Samuel Ullman High School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Mary Bush recalls her decision to attend Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Mary Bush remembers the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Mary Bush talks about the bombings during the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Mary Bush talks about her decision to attend school in the South

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Mary Bush recalls the assassination of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Mary Bush describes the history of Fisk University

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Mary Bush talks about her experiences at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Mary Bush recalls her decision to attend the University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Mary Bush recalls her first impressions of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Mary Bush remembers her classmates at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Mary Bush recalls her training at Chase Manhattan Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Mary Bush recalls her position at the First National City Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Mary Bush recalls becoming a vice president of Bankers Trust

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Mary Bush talks about her work at Bankers Trust

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Mary Bush remembers being recruited to the U.S. Department of the Treasury

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Mary Bush describes her role at the U.S. Department of the Treasury

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Mary Bush talks about economic policy under President Ronald Reagan

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Mary Bush recalls her appointment to the International Monetary Fund

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Mary Bush remembers designing the Structural Adjustment Facility

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Mary Bush remembers her work at the Federal National Mortgage Association

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Mary Bush describes her role on the Federal Housing Finance Board

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Mary Bush talks about her experiences as an African American woman in the federal government

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Mary Bush talks about her friendship with Condoleezza Rice

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Mary Bush remembers becoming an independent consultant

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Mary Bush recalls her start as a corporate board member

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Mary Bush reflects upon her corporate board memberships

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Mary Bush describes her corporate board memberships

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Mary Bush talks about her speeches on corporate governance

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Mary Bush describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Mary Bush shares her plans for the future

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Mary Bush reflects upon her family

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Mary Bush narrates her photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$4

DAStory

8$2

DATitle
Mary Bush talks about the bombings during the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham, Alabama
Mary Bush remembers designing the Structural Adjustment Facility
Transcript
You said in your mind, "What did they bomb now?" What--so this--the things had led up to this, what were those things?$$Well, there were I think I mentioned Attorney Shores earlier, Arthur Shores, who lived in Smithfield [Birmingham, Alabama] and had a beautiful house sort of on the top of the hill, his house was bombed two or three times that I recall and even though it was Smithfield the next community over, you could, you could hear those as well. Reverend Shuttlesworth [HistoryMaker Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth] lived a little further out. I don't think I, I couldn't hear when his home or church was bombed but of course we would hear about it. There were, there was a house about a block and a half from me where another minister lived, his home was bombed. There were shrapnel bomb planted in the sidewalks where we had to walk to school one day. When, when I was in high school [Samuel Ullman High School, Birmingham, Alabama], we would walk about two, three, about three and a half blocks you know to get to the bus on 6th Avenue to go up to our high school and shrapnel, I don't know if you know what it is, but it's all these sharp things that were planted beneath the sidewalks and the shrapnel went off along about a two and a half, three block radius just the pathway that many of us would walk to school, Freeman [HistoryMaker Freeman Hrabowski], Cheryl [Cheryl McCarthy], Sandra Copeland, many of the kids in the neighborhood, and they went off and the other interesting thing is this shows how cohesive our not just our churches and schools were but our communities were, a couple of my teachers and my brother's teachers, Freeman's teachers lived on the street that was closest to 6th Avenue. So when the shrapnel went off there those teachers got on the phone immediately and they just started a chain going, "Keep your child home, keep your child home, keep your child home." And it's a good thing that they did because one might assume this shrapnel, these shrapnel bombs had gone off and then it was you know safe to go onto the bus, but indeed those phone calls were very important because our parents indeed kept us home and just about the time when we would have been actually walking out to go to school, another set of shrapnel bombs went off. So the bombings were frequent and regular. In fact that's kind of how Birmingham [Alabama] got its nickname, Bombingham.$$And this is the 1960s, you're at this point this is high school years?$$Yes.$$So you're going to school, the external environment is hostile. The internal environment is nurturing and supportive.$$You put your finger right on it. (Laughter) Yes, yes.$What would you say your, your, the, the accomplishment is that you're the proudest of at the time that you were at the IMF [International Monetary Fund]?$$The, the thing that I'm most proud of is creation of a new lending facility. Again it was that--$$Structural Adjustment--?$$--the Structural Adjustment Facility referred to shorthand the SAF. It was later called the Expanded Structural Adjustment Facility [sic. Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facility]. The reason was that our [U.S.] Congress and the other governments around the world decided to add more money to that fund. But here's the reason that it was significant. The IMF was lending to countries and when the IMF lends, it negotiates economic programs with the country. Those economic programs are focused primarily on fiscal policy and in other words budgets, how much you're spending, taxes and that kind of thing and monetary policy. What they--what those programs were not focused on as I saw it were the things that actually, the business part of it. The practical things that really get economic growth and that comes from business, it does not come from government. So I saw that issue. The other issue was that many finance ministers and essential bank governors would walk into my door and so they would always meet with the United States because of our strong voting power as well as with the management of the IMF and so many of them said to me the IMF and the World Bank, which is the sister institution to the IMF are giving us different conditions, different things that they want us to meet when we borrow from each institution and they frequently conflict with each other. And I said this doesn't make sense. So that was one thing that didn't make sense. The other thing that didn't make sense was that when we were, even though we were lending to a country and they would pay down some of the money, the next year or the year after, they were back again with the same problem and I said, "We're not addressing the problems, we're not addressing all of the problems." The Structural Adjustment Facility was aimed at doing that. Number one it brought the IMF and the World Bank together to negotiate with the country together and to be sure that the economic conditions that they were requiring were in sync with each other but number two, I wanted us to focus and we did focus and the Structural Adjustment Facility on investment policy. In other words with the right regulations in place so that people living in an African country, a Latin country, an Asian country would want to keep their money at home and invest it there. Were the right policies in place where they could attract foreign investment? Were the right tax policies in place so that they were not confiscating an enormous amount of the productivity of business? Was there a lot of red tape that prevented or that hindered the formation of new businesses and new companies? Those were the kinds of things that the staff addressed, addressed.$$Who was head of the IMF at that time?$$Initially it was Jacques de Larosiere and during my last oh, year and a half there, it was Michel Camdessus. Both Frenchmen, both outstanding.

Shirley Malcom

Education administrator and science education advocate Shirley Malcom was born on September 6, 1946 in Birmingham, Alabama to ¬Lillie Mae and Ben Mahaley. From an early age, she wanted to be a doctor because of her love of biology. At George Washington Carver High School, Malcom was a top student and graduated in 1963. She then attended the University of Washington and received her B.S. degree in zoology in 1967. Malcom went on to attend the University of California at Los Angeles where she graduated with her M.A. degree in zoology in 1968. She taught high school biology in Los Angeles before attending Pennsylvania State University where she obtained her Ph.D. degree in ecology in 1974.

After completing her education, Malcom joined the faculty of the University of North Carolina at Wilmington as an assistant professor. In 1975, she moved to Washington, D.C. where she began working as a research assistant in the Office of Opportunities in Science (OOS) of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). She co-published “The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science” in 1976. Then, Malcom served as a program officer for the National Science Foundation’s (NSF) Science Education Directorate. She became head of the AAAS Office of Opportunities in Science in 1979 and head of the AAAS Directorate for Education and Human Resources Programs in 1989. In 1993, Malcom was appointed to the National Science Board by President Bill Clinton and in 1995, she became a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. She was also named to the President’s Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology from 1994 until 2001. Malcom has authored several reports on engaging women and minorities in science and is considered a pioneer in the field.

Malcom has served as co-chair of the Gender Advisory Board of the United Nations Commission on Science and Technology for Development and has chaired many national committees on scientific education and literacy. In 2006, she was named co-chair of the National Science Board Commission on 21st Century Education in STEM. Malcom serves as a trustee of California Institute of Technology and a regent of Morgan State University. She has sixteen honorary degrees, received the University of Washington’s Alumna Summa Laude Dignata Award in 1998, the university’s highest honor and in 2003, was given the Public Welfare Medal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS). Shirley Malcom is married to Horace Malcom and they have two adult daughters.

Shirley Malcom was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on March 9, 2012.

Accession Number

A2012.060

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/8/2012

Last Name

Malcom

Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

M.

Schools

University of Washington

University of California, Los Angeles

Pennsylvania State University

George Washington Carver High School

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Shirley

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

MAL06

Favorite Season

Spring

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Paris, France

Favorite Quote

What Doesn't Kill You, Makes You Stronger.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

District of Columbia

Birth Date

9/6/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Washington

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Fried Chicken

Short Description

Education administrator and science educator Shirley Malcom (1946 - ) is head of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Directorate for Education and Human Resources Programs. She is a pioneer of minority science education serving on the National Science Board and the President’s Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology.

Employment

Los Angeles Schools

University of North Carolina, Wilmington

American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)

National Science Foundation (NSF)

National Science Board

President’s Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
0,0:17052,345:19488,384:37940,556:40550,598:43070,634:45950,667:46310,672:46760,678:56786,777:59555,829:60407,857:64250,873:64712,880:65559,895:66714,908:67253,916:71180,984:84415,1146:86740,1216:87190,1223:91990,1306:92815,1318:93790,1333:95815,1377:102198,1408:104466,1444:105390,1457:108834,1500:117234,1603:122022,1660:122862,1675:123450,1683:128786,1696:131048,1736:133076,1780:137210,1837:137834,1847:138614,1858:138926,1863:144721,1894:145568,1908:152040,1987:153600,2004:154224,2013:178950,2373:188249,2459:188785,2468:194568,2528:195279,2538:197412,2559:198044,2568:198913,2580:202942,2619:203574,2628:206260,2665:207366,2681:218635,2763:223290,2843:229650,2878:230175,2886:230850,2900:231450,2910:233775,2950:234150,2956:236025,2984:238800,3020:243300,3105:245850,3159:250050,3218:250800,3229:251100,3234:257170,3254:261331,3346:263229,3382:263667,3393:264689,3407:270894,3511:276305,3543:282028,3638:282804,3648:283677,3659:295300,3767:295932,3776:300988,3849:302963,3870:303990,3886:309204,3975:312759,4037:313154,4043:315524,4078:316156,4087:317025,4101:332854,4273:333565,4285:334750,4309:335066,4314:340966,4352:345544,4396:345989,4402:347947,4426:354622,4527:356580,4566:368184,4709:368658,4716:377706,4853:378066,4859:382386,4941:382674,4946:390432,5012:393958,5054:397740,5067:398760,5076:399780,5091:400205,5097:403990,5131:406100,5155$0,0:14512,157:18649,190:18965,210:22678,280:24258,298:24969,308:28445,375:28919,386:40192,519:40850,527:43012,558:44610,583:47430,622:67090,755:83698,1003:86050,1047:86722,1059:89662,1109:105236,1277:106628,1288:107585,1308:108281,1318:118275,1408:118660,1414:126976,1554:129363,1629:129748,1635:136310,1681:138920,1692:139892,1704:140459,1713:140783,1718:146534,1793:146939,1799:151070,1876:155760,1893:156296,1904:156765,1912:161857,2004:162527,2015:174674,2144:175089,2150:176002,2169:196608,2406:196940,2411:199264,2449:209196,2550:209916,2562:215028,2645:215604,2655:216540,2669:221360,2689:222480,2707:223040,2716:228000,2788:242784,2940:250854,3018:257956,3081:259573,3109:260266,3124:261575,3152:262191,3162:279294,3379:279606,3384:285144,3473:312514,3806:314257,3835:314838,3844:316664,3877:317079,3886:331865,4013:338707,4053:342894,4068:346988,4145:347344,4150:349836,4171:351438,4198:352150,4211:352595,4217:357395,4233:358105,4245:362152,4335:376850,4566:377106,4571:377490,4578:377938,4590:378898,4693:396491,4851:397415,4862:408560,4954:409980,4994:410548,5125:424852,5469:426246,5492:426574,5497:427394,5509:428542,5520:430264,5544:431248,5558:431740,5565:432150,5571:432642,5579:441663,5681:459466,5909:459868,5920:460471,5932:461342,5946:472230,6028
DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Shirley Malcom's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her mother's growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her father's growing up

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom talks about the demographics of Alabama

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Shirley Malcom describes her parents' personalities and who she takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about her childhood neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about her high school

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her elementary school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about her experience at Lewis Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about the significance of Sputnik to aspiring scientists

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom talks about her teachers at Lewis Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about her interest in television, radio and football

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Shirley Malcom talks about her grandmother registering to vote

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about voting challenges for black people during the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about the bombing of Bethel Baptist Church and Sixteenth Street Baptist Church

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom reflects on her experience of being a student during the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her decision to attend the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom talks about the civil rights disparities that women face

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about her experience at the University of Washington

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about the disparity of educational resources between minority schools and white schools

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about innate scientific ability

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about her decision to forego medical school

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her social life at the University of Washington

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about her experience at the University of California in Los Angeles

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her studies at the University of California in Los Angeles

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom reflects on the challenges in her personal life during her graduate studies

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about Pennsylvania State University, where she received her Ph.D. degree in ecology

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom describes her dissertation on the factors that relate to the termination of imprinting in birds

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about football at Pennsylvania State University

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities with the University of North Carolina at Wilmington and the NAACP

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about the book she published called, 'The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science'

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work at the National Science Foundation and the American Association for the Advancement of Science

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work with the American Association for the Advancement of Science

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities and the importance of STEM education

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work with the United Nations (part one)

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom talks about her work with the United Nations (part two)

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Shirley Malcom talks about women's access to science education

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities with the AAAS

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Shirley Malcom reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Shirley Malcom talks about her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Shirley Malcom talks about society's perceptions of scientists and celebrities

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Shirley Malcom reflects upon her life choices

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Shirley Malcom talks about her family

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Shirley Malcom reflects upon how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

6$5

DAStory

2$5

DATitle
Shirley Malcom talks about her professional activities and the importance of STEM education
Shirley Malcom talks about the book she published called, 'The Double Bind: The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science'
Transcript
Early 90s [1990s] you're saying--?$$Yes, it would be, it would have been kind of the early 90s [1990s]. And so we had a number of places apply and we had independent selection process and the people came here for training cause we wanted them all to do something that related to building math skills, whatever they happened to be. And then we basically sent them computers and they established community computing centers. We were trying some of everything. The notion is that we saw, we found holes we wanted to plug you know. We were trying to help communities, trying to build awareness to start with and then trying to build strategies so that you would get some sense that you weren't at, you know you weren't hanging out there by yourself. I mean there were things that you could do to try to move this. At the same time that you're trying all these projects, you're also trying to establish or support policies that you knew in the long run would likely provide federal resources or something for undertaking these efforts. You were protecting disaggregated data because you know if you lose it you're not going to be able to keep score and know how, know if you're making any kind of difference. So you're working on various fronts you know all at the same time, building, trying to build capacity in organizations, trying to build awareness in the scientific community, trying to get other organizations within the scientific community to take on some of these issues. So you have lots of different stuff going on at any one time. In 1989, there was a reorganization that pulled not only office of opportunities but also the general issues that relate to science education as well as public understanding of science into the same unit and I became the head of that unit. And again this was a situation where you are coming to understand that this is a system's problem and you've got to figure out how to take on different parts of a system be it K-12, be it higher education, be it graduate education, be it community engagement and community literacy that you've got to build partnerships, that you've got to reach out beyond yourself. You have to engage the media, the technology and what have you in order to make a difference. I had the opportunity too to kind of do more in the policy world and around the policy, and the policy area to effect things as well. I served on the National Science Board, the policymaking body of the National Science Foundation and participated in their efforts around strategic planning, around the systemic initiatives that they undertook. I instigated the activity that eventually led to the change in criteria at the foundation that--around broader impacts to try to get people to focus on the fact that it was great to be able to do your research but maybe we should be able to expect that you would do things to support education, do things to support diversity, do things to support other kinds of worthy efforts and initiatives within the sciences and engineering. And I served on President Clinton's counsel of advisors se science and technology at the same time and so trying to lift the discussion to the numerous agencies, trying to help people understand that this was an area of national need. We had once again returned to the Sputnik [1957] moment. It might not look like it but we were there again and that if we didn't really understand that the demographics were headed in one direction but we really weren't capitalizing on the need to build talent out of all those groups that had been marginalized in the past and we had a real problem. And so we were trying to change the discourse and tried to get the science community to own this problem at the same time that we could get the national policies to own all of this as an issue that had to be addressed. And I think that to a very large extent we look at, we look today and we listen to President Obama and his remarks, he's there. He gets that in fact that we--that stem education is critical to being able to move ahead in terms of our national security, our defense, our health, our economics but also that we have to be very smart about talent development and talent utilization. But you, when I think about kind of the odyssey that it has taken to kind of get to that point it's really amazing that we can still be having this conversation this many years later. You know I have these regular moments of deja vu all over again. I was you know I undertake on a--I can get an open slice of time every once in a while to start trying to attack the mess in my office and I'll find a speech that I gave in 1980 something and I read the presentation. I shouldn't, I should just go on and file it. But I read it and I thought oh my goodness this is too fresh. I could have given this speech last week. And I think that as much progress as we have made and the numbers tell us and we have in fact made progress, as much progress as we have made, the movement has been glacial. I mean it's so slow but we have just, we are just not taking hold of these things with the speed and urgency that is really required.$Okay. Now in '76 [1976] you wrote, you published 'The Double Bind'--$$The Double Bind.$$--The Price of Being a Minority Woman in Science.$$Yes.$$Okay.$$And that was, it was interesting how that happened. The person with home, for whom I worked said at that time, what's it like basically to have these two things hitting you at the same time? She had gone to a meeting of people who were writing projects that related to minorities in science. There had been no women there. Then she went to a meeting on women in science projects and there had been no minorities there. And I said to her, I said what it is like is that you're in no person's land because if you--for example you go into a living room and you have a lamp that's there and there's a switch on the lamp and there's a switch on the wall. The switch on the lamp can be on but the wall switch isn't. The wall switch can be on but if the lamp switch isn't on the lamp still won't light. Essentially the light, the wall switch has to work and the lamp has to be on in order for anything to happen. I mean it's similarly that you know this notion of following slavery when the amendment was put in place giving blacks the right to vote, black women couldn't vote. You know so women were arguing at the time that women should, white women should be allowed to vote before these illiterate black men who had been slaves. But until both of those things happened, we weren't going to get the vote. So it didn't matter who you told, who you tossed your hat in with, nothing was going to happen for you until both of those things happened. And that's really the major issue that we began to understand as women of color that early on we might be more affected by the issues of being members of minority groups in terms of our early education. But at some point we were also going to be hit by sexism and the realization that there were certain things that women were expected to do and not do. And that we, until both of those sets of conditions were addressed that we weren't really going to be able to progress. And not having being able to put those ideas, to articulate those ideas and begin to understand what might a pathway be for women of color, I mean that was the first time that that had actually been discussed as an issue. And trying to help people understand what that was like was a really hard thing to do and it was a hard thing to do in terms of putting it to words. One young woman who wrote me at the time kind of--after she found 'The Double Bind', she was looking for something that spoke to her to the situation that she felt at the time. And I was trying to help her sort through it and make suggestions about what she should do as she was trying to map out her life, is now the Dean of the College at Harvard [University], Evelyn Hammonds. She was at Spelman [College] when she wrote to me after that book. And it means a lot that she felt that for the first time that someone understood, someone was articulating her reality. And unfortunately while a lot of things have changed from that reality, a lot of things haven't changed from that reality. There's a recent piece that I did with my daughter for Harvard Educational Review that kind of brings it, this up to date at the thirty-fifth anniversary you know of 'The Double Bind.' And we entitled it, 'The Double Bind-The Next Generation,' you know looking at how now younger women are experiencing some of the same issues that their mothers did and how, what is likely--what we now understand is likely to be necessary in order to really address these things.$$Now culturally, did you get more, I mean for those who were aware of what you wrote, did you get more pushback form the black community or the white community?$$Did we get pushback?$$No, from those who actually read what you wrote, did you get more pushback from the black community or the white community or did it make any difference?$$Okay, that's a hard one. We got probably more pushback from black males. White females didn't like it either because in a way when you're kind of in the middle of a women's movement the idea that you're going to call out that our separate needs aren't being addressed. And largely our separate needs weren't being addressed, partly our separate needs weren't being addressed because there was this in some corners kind of a condemnation of what, of the behavior of all men. And what we were trying to say is, hey wait a minute. Our brothers have issues, have had issues trying to move ahead as well. So even though they aren't necessarily being the most supportive people right now by saying we, you know we're calling out things that we need to keep in the family--I mean you think about it. You think about the civil rights movement and you think about the fact that the women in many cases were organizing things and they got pushed to the side. You don't hear about the women who were critical in the civil rights movement.$$Like Ella Baker [Ella Josephine Baker, African American civil rights and human rights activist].$$Yeah. You don't hear about Ella Baker. You don't hear about Diane--$$Nash [Diane Nash, student leader and strategist of the 1960s civil rights movement].$$You know, you don't hear about them. You may hear about Dorothy and I think that Dorothy Height [Dorothy Irene Height, administrator, educator, social activist: former head of National Council of Negro Women] who was a great supporter of our work because she understood this science/technology connection to really being able to take hold of one's future moving forward. I think that she, they gave her some props because she was senior to them all you know. And, but you know how that worked. It was, there was the expectation that you provided the coffee, you provided the support, you made the signs, you did whatever, but you were not out in front and that was a part of the reality. Did people like to be called on it? No. And I think that that's just the way it was.

John H. Hall, Jr.

Chemist and academic administrator John H. Hall, Jr. was born on September 24, 1946 to Mary Emma Hall and John H. Hall, Sr. He attended Morehouse College to receive his B.S. degree in chemistry with honors in 1969. With a scholarship for continued studies in chemistry, Hall then began his graduate studies at Harvard University. Hall worked with his research advisor, William N. Lipscomb, to better understand the nature of chemical bonds in boranes through electron orbital calculations. Lipscomb’s work in borane structure earned him the 1976 Nobel Prize in chemistry. Hall graduated from Harvard University with his Ph.D. degree in theoretical computational chemistry in 1974.

Pursuing post-doctoral research work, Hall worked with Dr. William Guillory to develop models of mechanisms of the photolytic reactions occurring to deplete the ozone in the atmosphere during the 1970s. In 1979, Hall became an associate professor of chemistry at Morehouse College and senior research scientist at the School of Geophysical Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology, where he continued his research in atmospheric chemistry. Hall continued to study the chemical compounds and reactions of the stratosphere, including the chlorine and fluorine nitrate series, and the vibrational spectra of nitrate geometric isomers. His later work also focused on the effect that high concentrations of these highly-reactive compounds on human health, particularly low-income populations.

Hall served as a consultant for Innovations International, Inc., a company started by William Guillory that specialized in organizational development. He also served as the associate vice president for research at The Ohio State University for seven years before returning to Morehouse College in 2001 as chair of the department of chemistry. Hall was later named the Bruce Raneur Professor of Natural Sciences at Morehouse College, where he has published numerous academic papers on physical and atmospheric chemistry. Hall and his wife, Susan Hall, also started Transformational Consultants International, Inc., where they specialized in improving workplace productivity and diversity. Hall's wife, Susan, passed away in 2008.

John Hall was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 14, 2011.

Accession Number

A2011.015

Sex

Male

Interview Date

4/14/2011

Last Name

Hall

Marital Status

Widower

Schools

Anderson Park Elementary School

Henry McNeal Turner High School

Morehouse College

Harvard University

Search Occupation Category
First Name

John

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

HAL14

Favorite Season

Fall

Sponsor

National Science Foundation

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Barcelona, Spain

Favorite Quote

I Am The Master Of My Fate. I Am The Captain Of My Soul.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

9/24/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Paella

Short Description

Academic administrator and chemist John H. Hall, Jr. (1946 - ) was a leading researcher in atmospheric chemistry, particularly the reactions occurring to deplete the ozone layer. Hall is the chair of the chemistry department at Morehouse College.

Employment

Morehouse College

Georgia Institute of Technology

Innovations International

Ohio State University

Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Transformational Consultants International, Inc.

Main Sponsor
Main Sponsor URL
Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of John Hall's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - John Hall shares his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - John Hall talks about his mother's side of the family

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - John Hall talks about his mother's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - John Hall talks about his father's side of the family

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - John Hall talks about his father as the bread winner

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - John Hall discusses his parents' mixed-race marriage

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - John Hall shares memories from his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - John Hall talks about his father in the meatpacking industry

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - John Hall describes his childhood in Atlanta

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - John Hall describes his family life

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - John Hall talks about his involvement in music during the early days of rock and roll

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - John Hall describes his elementary school experience

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - John Hall talks about his lack of interest and in his formal schooling

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - John Hall talks about his interest in science

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - John Hall talks about finishing high school

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - John Hall reflects on his decision to major in chemistry at Morehouse College

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - John Hall explains his decision to go to Harvard University

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - John Hall explains how Henry McBay influenced his decision to study chemistry

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - John Hall talks about Morehouse College's approach to teaching chemistry

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - John Hall talks about playing semi-pro baseball while at Morehouse College

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - John Hall talks about his professors at Morehouse College

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - John Hall discusses civil rights activity in Atlanta

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - John Hall talks about he and his family's involvement in civil rights activities

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - John Hall talks about his transition from Morehouse College to Harvard University for graduate school

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - John Hall talks about his study group at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - John Hall talks about the scientists he met at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - John Hall talks about his enzymology course at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - John Hall talks about his research focus in theoretical chemistry at Harvard University

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - John Hall talks about his publications

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - John Hall describes the formation of the National Organization for Black Chemists and Chemical Engineers

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - John Hall explains his joint work with William Lipscomb in chemical bonding

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - John Hall talks about his Ph.D. dissertation

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - John Hall recalls William Lipscomb's 1976 Nobel Prize

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - John Hall explains his post Ph.D. path

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - John Hall talks about his studies of the ozone layer

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - John Hall talks about his work at the University of Utah and Georgia Tech

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - John Hall talks about his experience as a part-time professor at Morehouse College

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - John Hall recalls his summer fellowship at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Cal Tech

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - John Hall talks about his marriages

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - John Hall describes his 1982 trip to China

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - John Hall describes his role in establishing a research computing facility at the University of Atlanta Center

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - John Hall discusses Atlanta's golden age

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - John Hall describes his 1984 paper on chlorine nitrate

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - John Hall talks about his NSF report on the development of research at minority institutions

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - John Hall discusses the development of research at minority institutions

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - John Hall talks about being director of academic and research computing for the Atlanta University Center

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - John Hall discusses the development of computer technology

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - John Hall talks about his promotion at Georgia Institute of Technology and his summer at Rice University

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - John Hall talks about his work as a consultant at Innovations International

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - John Hall responds to a question about his time at Ohio State University

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - John Hall explains his 2001 return to Morehouse College and the city of Atlanta

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - John Hall talks about his shift in research at Morehouse College

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - John Hall discusses his research on the behavior and expression of individual people

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - John Hall talks about the future of his research at Morehouse College

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - John Hall discusses his hopes and concerns for the African American community today

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - John Hall reflects on his life's accomplishments

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - John Hall talks about his family members and how he would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$7

DAStory

6$1

DATitle
John Hall talks about his interest in science
John Hall discusses his research on the behavior and expression of individual people
Transcript
Did your parents, did your parents, can you credit your parents with exposing you to materials of scientific...?$$No, actually they didn't. My father [John Henry Hall, Sr.] actually exposed me to the world, like travel and going around. And my mother [Mary Emma Watson] was pretty good with numbers, but she didn't--she did more playing the numbers than she did in calculus, mathematics, you know (laughter). But I just don't know how. I loved comic books and I read a lot of comic books.$$Did you have a favorite comic book?$$I did. It was like 'Superman' and 'Batman' and then there were these science fiction comics, I can't remember. But they would have these things in them about the international geophysical year and about astronomy and about the universe, and I would read that, and that would be the most interesting part. And then I'd go to the library and I'd check these books out. I remember that one time I went to the library and I had these books on electricity and magnetism and chemistry and stuff. I was like eleven years old. And I went to check them out, and the librarian said, "Can you read these books, are you sure?" And I said, "I think, yeah, I check them out every week." And so, that was what I did.$$So, do you think maybe you were bored with curriculum and really wanted something else?$$I was pretty bored with school. I just wanted to play baseball. I played baseball a lot, and that's all I really wanted to do. And then I'd go home and read my books at night because there wasn't a lot, much else to do. Or, I'd watch TV. There were a lot of exciting things to watch on TV back then, you know. The things, it's interesting, the shows I most watched were like the 'Today Show' and I remember looking at that the morning they were talking about the polio vaccine. They were tracking whether people had contracted polio from taking the vaccine, the map back then, and I remember you know, different things like that. But it all had to do somehow with some science.$$Okay, did you watch 'Mr. Wizard' with Don Herbert?$$It was okay, I thought it was kind of boring (laughter), but I would watch it, you know. There was a whole lot of watching TV.$$Did you ever watch, they had the Walt Disney science specials. They were all on sometimes...$$Yeah, I would do that. My mother, my parents bought me a chemistry set, and microscope sets and stuff like that. They bought me a telescope when I was really young, and so they would do things like that, because that's what I wanted. But you know, I didn't even know that there was a profession called scientist that I could have access to. You know, I didn't know how these people got to be at the North Pole doing whatever they were doing.$$(unclear) Thomas used to go to those places on television...$$Yeah.$$Did you know any of the doctors or the professors over here at the Atlanta Morehouse [College] complex?$$Not when I was in elementary school. In high school I knew Samuel Williams, who was a professor of religion. In fact, his son was my best friend, and I started to spend a lot of time--they lived across the street from the school, and I was spending a lot of my time over here at his house, you know, on the Morehouse campus, but he was mainly the only one that I knew.$$Okay. Now, in high school, did you become popular after you started making good grades?$$I don't think so (laughter). I don't know, I think I was most popular for my music. I think that's what really made me popular. I don't think the grades did anything (laughter). People-- Well more people talked to me because they wanted to know if I could help them with stuff, with their mathematics or with their chemistry.$$So your grades went up. Did they go up high enough for you to be part of the National Honor Society?$$Yeah, I made the National Honor Society. I was accepted at Morehouse [College, Atlanta, Georgia]. I got a scholarship to come to Morehouse.$We were talking off camera, and this seems interesting because you said part of your research is, has to do with, I guess, the expression of the individuals and, just elaborate on that for a minute, because we were talking about conciseness on language and...$$Yeah, people have particular ways that they need to behave in order to be non-stressed. And, of course, in addition to that, there's a group of socialized behaviors that we learn to do because that's what's acceptable in society, right? And in many cases, the socialized behaviors and the way we need to behave overlap. Because if they didn't they would probably end up in jail somewhere or something (laughter). So, what we were talking about off camera is that people have a certain need to be able to communicate in a particular way. Like some people are very direct, and some people are not direct at all. And people who are very direct have a need to be direct. Then there are some people that have a need for other people to be direct with them. And then some people have a need for people to be indirect with them. Now the problem arises is when you have a person who is very direct talking to a person who has a need for you to be indirect. Then that causes a problem. Or, a person who is very direct, and somebody is talking to that person who has a need to be very indirect with that person. What they don't understand is that if I have a need for you to be direct with me, and you're not, I literally cannot understand what you're saying. I literally cannot read between the lines. I have no idea what you're talking about. And you'll just think that I'm not being cooperative. So, we do that kind of research and we help people to match up and understand not only how they are--because most of us don't know how we are. See, you actually don't know sitting over there in that chair whether you have a need for people to be direct with you or not. You actually don't know that, because you can't see your needs. Now you might feel that you get irritated by people who are indirect with you. That would be a clue (laughter). So, we do that for organizations or for people. And my wife used to call what we do is that we build working relationships that work. Because our view of another person is a perception of that person, it's not actually who that person is, and we build that perception by how that person interacts with us.$$Is scientific research and interaction and projects, are scientific projects dependent on that kind of information?$$Well, what's dependent--no, no, not really. Scientific projects are not. I mean, you have people who are direct and people who are indirect, it doesn't matter, they can do science just as well. It doesn't affect your performance, it only affects your ability to have relationships with other people.$$Okay.$$Because if I'm direct, and you don't want--and you have a need for me to be indirect, then right there we have a cause for conflict. And we don't even know why we're having conflict, we just know, I just know, that every time I talk to you and you don't like it because I'm so--but I don't even know that I'm indirect--I'm just saying what I have to say to get my point over.$$Okay, okay.$$Then after I finish talking, five minutes later you still don't understand what I said (laughter).$$For instance, we're all working on a project, say you and Dr. J.K. Haynes. Both of you seem to be sort of gregarious and outgoing men, and there are people who are going to be scientists who are not, they are used to being alone, and they say this. So, your work, is it to bridge the gap between these two kinds of personalities?$$Yes. Because, you know, they have all kinds of personalities working in the workplace, right, working together? And when people have conflicts, it's usually because a need is not getting met that somebody has. Now, they don't know it's not getting met because they don't know they have it, but once they know that they have it, and they can see it in this assessment, it makes perfect sense to them why they've been acting the way they've been acting, and why other people have been setting them off the way they've been setting them off.$$So, do you have like assessment tools?$$Yes, we do, we have assessment tools that we use to do that.$$Okay. Well, this helps individuals realize where they are on the spectrum and...?$$See, with the assessment tool, I can tell things like, okay, does the person eat lunch at the same place everyday? Or better yet, does the person order the same thing everyday when they go to eat? Because all I have to do is look at their thought score. If it takes them a long time to make decisions, then they order the same thing all the time because it keeps them from having to make hard decisions. Or, they'll lay their clothes out for the entire week because they don't, they get up in the morning and it would take them too long to make a decision about what they're going to wear, so they lay them out. With me, I don't lay anything out, I just put whatever's there on, because I have a low thought score (laughter). So it's a very great instrument. We use it to coach the students, too, and to mentor them. And it gives them a better understanding of who they are, what they're needs are, and how they can interact successfully with other people.$$Okay. Well, part of what you're saying is that if we understand who we are, we actually can be more successful.$$Oh, yeah. Exactly, exactly. So part of what makes a person, you know, that "empowered individual" is a firm understanding and inquiry into who they are, and what are their needs.

C. T. King-Miller

Researcher and activist Carolyn (Tasmiya) King-Miller was born in 1947 and is a native of Birmingham, Alabama. Her father, Floyd King Sr. was a reverend at a Baptist church in Birmingham. King-Miller attended Wenonah High School for three years and then transferred to Jones Valley High School where she graduated in 1965. King-Miller attended Miles College in 1965 and later transferred to Brooklyn College.

King-Miller was the first African American to integrate and graduate from Jones Valley High School in 1965. Her parents successfully petitioned the school board to admit her at the all white school. While there, she suffered from harassment from both her classmates and teachers. The dance was held at a secret location to intentionally exclude her from participating. After high school, she attended Miles College, an all African American school known for its work in civil rights activities, for two years. Later, she transferred to Brooklyn College in New York and studied communications. In New York, she married and had two children. From 1980 to 1989, King-Miller worked as a supervisor at Dean Witter in San Francisco. From 1989 to 1991, King-Miller worked at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco as a supervisor. She worked at Charles Schwab Company, from 1994 to 1999, as a researcher. In 1999, King-Miller worked at Creative Genealogy Services and Research as a researcher. King-Miller’s interest in genealogy extends to her own family, having conducted extensive research on both sides of her family. In 2000, King-Miller worked at Each One Teach One, an employment recruitment service for high school students. She also published, Mama, I was the only one there!, about her experience as a student in 1964.

King-Miller has continued her activism with her involvement at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute, where she has participated in many events and programming, including a conciliatory forum that coincided with her first-ever appearance at the Jones Valley High School reunion for alumni from 1961-1969. The forum provided a space for the community to address past events. King-Miller was given the key to the City of Birmingham and honored with a street dedication for her role in desegregation. Her achievements have been recognized by President Bill Clinton, The St. John Missionary Baptist Church and many others. Her oral history is included in institutions such as the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute, Birmingham Black Radio, and the Smithsonian Institute.

King-Miller was interviewed by Larry Crowe on March 7, 2011.

Accession Number

A2011.009

Sex

Female

Interview Date

3/8/2011

Last Name

King-Miller

Maker Category
Marital Status

Widow

Schools

Powderly Elementary School

Wenonah High School

Jones Valley Kinderg-Eighth Grade

Miles College

Brooklyn College

First Name

Carolyn-Tasmiya

Birth City, State, Country

Birmingham

HM ID

KIN16

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Alabama

Favorite Vacation Destination

Birmingham, Alabama

Favorite Quote

People So Seldom Say I Love You, But When They Do, It Doesn’t Mean I Don’t Want You To Go, I Wish You Wouldn’t Have To.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

California

Birth Date

7/7/1947

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Bay Area/San Francisco

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Salmon Croquettes

Short Description

Archivist and cultural activist C. T. King-Miller (1947 - ) is best known for integrating Jones Valley High School in 1964.

Employment

Creative Genealogy

Chas Schwak Co.

Federal Reserve Bank

Morgan Stanley

Favorite Color

Yellow

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of C.T. King-Miller's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - C.T. King-Miller lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - C.T. King-Miller describes her mother's family background, pt.1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - C.T. King-Miller describes her mother's family background, pt.2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - C.T. King-Miller describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - C.T. King-Miller talks about her father's service in World War II, his work in the coal mines, and how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - C.T. King-Miller describes her similarities to her parents

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - C.T. King-Miller talks about her father's work at Tennessee Coal, Iron and Railroad Company

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - C.T. King-Miller lists her siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - C.T. King-Miller describes her earliest childhood memories

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - C.T. King-Miller recalls childhood memories of watching baseball and football

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - C.T. King-Miller describes the sights, sounds, and smells of her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - C.T. King-Miller describes her grade school years at Powderly Elementary School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - C.T. King-Miller talks about her mother's work as a maid

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - C.T. King-Miller talks about segregated busing in Birmingham, Alabama and the Montgomery Bus Boycott in 1955

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - C.T. King-Miller describes the protective measures her brothers were taught to observe outside of the black community

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - C.T. King-Miller recalls her father's gospel singing group, the McMillan Gospel Singers

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - C.T. King-Miller describes her childhood memories of music

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - C.T. King-Miller describes her experience at Wenonah High School in Birmingham, Alabama and her personality as a youth

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - C.T. King-Miller describes her experience with racial discrimination in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - C.T. King-Miller reflects on her father's involvement in the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - C.T. King-Miller describes her father's friendship with HistoryMaker Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - C.T. King-Miller recounts the beginning of her involvement in the Birmingham youth movement

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - C.T. King-Miller talks about preparing for the 1963 Birmingham Children's Crusade, pt.1

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - C.T. King-Miller talks about preparing for the 1963 Birmingham Children's Crusade, pt.2

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - C.T. King-Miller recalls being arrested as a teenager during Birmingham's Children's Crusade in 1963

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - C.T. King-Miller describes participating in the 1963 March on Washington, pt.1

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - C.T. King-Miller describes participating in the 1963 March on Washington, pt.2

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - C.T. King-Miller remembers the bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church and President John F. Kennedy's assassination

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - C.T. King-Miller recalls the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in 1963

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - C.T. King-Miller talks about the impact of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - C.T. King-Miller describes her integration of Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - C.T. King-Miller recounts registering for school at Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - C.T. King-Miller describes the absence of white people in Birmingham, Alabama's black community

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - C.T. King-Miller describes her experience integrating Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - C.T. King-Miller describes her experience integrating Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - C.T. King-Miller describes the support she received from her church and mixed reactions from the black community after integrating Jones Valley High School

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - C.T. King-Miller recalls experiences of racial discrimination

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - C.T. King-Miller recalls losing all of her black friends after integrating Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - C.T. King-Miller describes her graduation from Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama in 1964

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - C.T. King-Miller remembers preparing for the prom

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - C.T. King-Miller talks about being excluded from the prom

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - C.T. King-Miller talks about dearth of stories from the African American community on school integration

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - C.T. King-Miller describes apologies from her classmates at Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - C.T. King-Miller describes her experience at Miles College in Fairfield, Alabama

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - C.T. King-Miller describes moving to Brooklyn, New York

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - C.T. King-Miller explains her name change

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - C.T. King-Miller describes her career path

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - C.T. King-Miller describes attending her 35th high school reunion, pt. 1

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - C.T. King-Miller describes attending her 35th high school reunion, pt. 2

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - C.T. King-Miller talks about her business, Creative Genealogist Services

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - C.T. King-Miller talks about the lasting effects of her work injury

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - C.T. King-Miller reflects upon being honored in Birmingham, Alabama

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - C.T. King-Miller talks about her father's radio show, American Trailblazers, and her other family members

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - C.T. King-Miller describes her hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - C.T. King-Miller describes what she would have done differently in her life

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - C.T. King-Miller reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 10 - C.T. King-Miller talks about how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$6

DAStory

7$2

DATitle
C.T. King-Miller describes her experience integrating Jones Valley High School in Birmingham, Alabama pt. 2
C.T. King-Miller describes attending her 35th high school reunion, pt. 2
Transcript
Okay.$$Okay.$$Now what about--$$I was told that at lunchtime I could not go outside. I had to stay within the cafeteria. I think I was told not to go in the bathrooms, but I don't remember that. I just remember that I was told where I could go. Now, all the people in the cafeteria who served the food, except for one supervisor, were black. And I remember going through the line for my food, and I remember they used to pile all this food on, like fried chicken, mashed potatoes, vegetables. I mean, nothing like any school I'd gone to. Even at Wenonah, we took our own lunch. But they had that, and I would go through there and--chocolate milk, I didn't get chocolate milk on a regular basis. I mean, that's when I had my first chocolate milk, and I enjoyed it. And I used to have to, my father [Floyd King, Sr.] said always try to sit closest to where adults were, because you would be more safe, you'd be safe and more secure around other adults. Even in the classroom, he said you'll be secure in the classroom because the teacher's there. They cannot let anything happen to you. I didn't realize later when he kept on saying nothing would happen to me, is that the most that could happen, I could have been killed. I didn't think about them being concerned with that. I felt like I had a right. I was exercising the right, and I know he used to teach us the 14th Amendment and the 15th Amendment and used to read it to us and help us understand it, me and my siblings. And I used to remember him saying, "This is our right that's guaranteed to us. And the civil rights bill that Kennedy thought of and Johnson signed, this is your right. You're doing this for the black community." And I did begin to feel like I had the whole black community on my shoulder. I had to make sure I dressed right, I spoke right--and I was naturally a smart person, so, you know, that wasn't a problem, and I had nothing else to do. But, I would go in the cafeteria almost everyday, and they had fixed this beautiful food and I would sit at this tray and I'd sit there and I'd look at all those black women that my father said that I could not talk to, or I would get them fired. And the white kids would come by and spit, hark and spit in my food. So, I seldom ate lunch at school. And I went through a pattern of this, and I would just drink my chocolate milk and go on to class. And they would see it, I'd see tears were coming down their eyes, you know, and things like that. But it was nothing they could do. And he basically said that they would get fired, and that I was doing the right thing. And I could not react.$$Even with a principal that seemed like he was sympathetic?$$The principal wasn't there.$$Okay. He thought--$$But he knew what was happening, because I told my father, and my father told him.$$Okay. So, did you have a locker?$$No. I didn't have a locker. However, from going from class to class, passing classes, they would let me leave the classroom first. But if other classes were changing classes also, I didn't walk down the hall by myself. As I walked by, they would jump against the lockers, you know, and call me names. They would--it was never any physical violence, I should say that. But one of the things they did do, especially during--I guess it was some type of gun crap in school, they would have water guns, where they would run behind me and they would spray me with this water gun. And I remember one time a guy just came, a man, a boy, came right up in front of me and I had glasses on, and just sprayed that water gun right in my face and my glasses. And I remember one time that I used to have wear the type of clothes that dry fast, you know, to school. And they'd shoot it in my hair and my hair would curl up and stuff like that. And I'd get to the class and I'd have to dry off or go back to the office to the principal's wife and she would take me in the bathroom where I had to dry myself off. And I just didn't talk, you know.$And what they did once it was in the news, I was there and I was going to black and white radio stations in Birmingham [Alabama], telling my story and everything. Well, I guess people found out where I was living, and the night before the prom, the hotel I was staying at started getting what I would call now, terrorist telephone calls. I meant, it became so bad that the manager came up and said that you guys are getting these calls--and we'd gotten two up to the room--they told them to hold those calls. So, we went back to the church I grew up in, St. John Missionary Baptist Church, and told the pastor. And it was an FBI guy and a policeman, a Birmingham [Alabama] policeman, that goes to the church. And they provided security, not only from the FBI, but also from the Birmingham [Alabama] police department. They came up and they talked to us, and you know, told us to be careful, that we'll be here. And when we left going from the hotel, they put security around the hotel so nothing would happen there, because they were scared, and they wanted to put us out. So, what they did was they provided escorts to the prom. And with that, I took along with me as my guest the newslady reporter named Vicky Howell, who had written the story that appeared on the first page. She had called out here and I'd given her everything--a beautiful article that captured everything, including the prom. When she got there--and she just wanted to keep knowing about my feelings, my feeling. I didn't have no feeling. First of all, when I asked people who did come around that were in my class at the time, and I didn't know anybody from my class--I had met Ken Battles--and when I got to the prom, I met the committee and they told me who they were and what role they played during that time. But I didn't know them from Adam or Eve. Of course, they all apologized and told me things. "Well, you know, I own a car dealership. If you're ever here and you need a car, call me." And the other one was a real estate agent, "If you ever need a house, call me." That sort of thing. And, so they all wanted to know what's my feeling, what's my feeling, you know? I'll say out of the maybe 500 or 600 people there, maybe about 50 came up and said I'm sorry. And out of the class I graduated out of, it was 107 of us. And for that class picture maybe it was about, I'd say it's about 80 or 90. These are all adults now. And I re-created that picture by standing in the middle, and I'll share it with you after this, and they all stood this time by me. And all of them said they were sorry. Everybody wanted to hug me. When I asked them point blank, "Why didn't you do anything?" And that's when they said that they were afraid that something would happen to them, that they would be teased. When I asked them about the prom, they said, "We thought you were going to bring the whole black community to our prom, and we were scared." When I asked them about meeting with the mayor during Senior Week, and this was 35 years ago, they said, "We didn't think you wanted to go, because you didn't come to school." I said, "But the principal told me not to come." They said, "Well, we know." So, all those were lame excuses, and I told them I didn't buy it, and please don't tell me nothing like that anymore. For those who said--the taunting things they did to me--it looked like all the boys were in the gun club at the school. During that time, gun clubs in school was popular. And as far as I'm concerned, they all sprayed me, shot me with those little plastic water guns. And they said, "I don't remember doing that, I don't remember doing that." But they all were there, and when they--I looked at a picture of them during that time, in the yearbook. I said, "Yes, you were, this is you right?" They said "Right, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Can you forgive me?" And I told them what my father said, "I forgave you at that time." I was raised that you had to forgive at that time if you were going to go ahead, and that's what has gotten me this far. You have to let go, you have to let go.