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Barbara Ann Lumpkin

Banker and former public official Barbara Ann Lumpkin was born Barbara Ann Madlock on July 27, 1950 in Oxford, Mississippi to Estella and John Lewis Madlock. She attended Green Hill Elementary School and graduated from North Panola High School in 1968, where she excelled in theater. Lumpkin earned her A.A. degree from Coahoma Community College in 1970, and after moving to Chicago, she took additional business administration courses at DePaul University.

Lumpkin began her career in banking as an assistant recruiter in the human relations department of Chicago’s Continental Bank. Gaining a front line banking job in 1980, she served in the bank’s Personal Financial Services Group. In 1985, Lumpkin moved to the Corporate Trust Department, where she rose to the position of senior vice president and corporate trust manager. After joining Amalgamated Bank in 1994, Lumpkin was certified as a corporate trust specialist by the Canon Financial Institute. In 1995, Lumpkin became Chicago’s City Comptroller and, in 1998, the City’s Budget Director. In 1999, an investigation forced the City Treasurer out of office, and Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley appointed Lumpkin to the position of City Treasurer. She was later appointed a special assistant to Mayor Daley. In 2000, Lumpkin left this position to become senior vice president in the Corporate and Institutional Services business unit of Northern Trust Bank.

In 2005, Lumpkin was called to serve the City of Chicago as the City of Chicago’s Chief Procurement Officer when it was revealed in early 2005 that Chicago was underperforming in its employment of minority contractors. Lumpkin was responsible for implementing promised improvements. In addition, she leads the City’s Minority, Women and Disadvantaged Enterprise Initiative. She is also an advisory board member of the United Negro College Fund and has publicly endorsed career opportunities in the financial and banking worlds for rising students. Lumpkin is a member of the Chicago Finance Exchange and the Urban Bankers Forum.

Lumpkin was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on August 18, 2006.

Accession Number

A2006.099

Sex

Female

Interview Date

8/18/2006

Last Name

Lumpkin

Maker Category
Middle Name

Ann

Schools

DePaul University

Coahoma Community College

Greenhill Elementary School

North Panola High School

First Name

Barbara

Birth City, State, Country

Oxford

HM ID

LUM02

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

Puerta Vallarta, Mexico

Favorite Quote

Always Respect Self And Others.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

7/27/1950

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Thanksgiving Dinner

Short Description

Bank executive and city treasurer Barbara Ann Lumpkin (1950 - ) was the former chief procurement officer for the City of Chicago, and served as city comptroller and budget director. In the private sector, Lumpkin worked as senior vice president and corporate trust manager for Continental Bank in Chicago.

Employment

Continental Bank

City of Chicago

Northern Trust Company

Favorite Color

Black, Shades of Gray

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Barbara Ann Lumpkin's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her mother's upbringing in Sardis, Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her mother's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her earliest childhood memory

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the sights, sounds and smells of her childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her community in Sardis, Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin narrates her photographs, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her experiences at Greenhill Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her teachers at Greenhill Elementary School

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls the Civil Rights Movement in Mississippi

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the school system in Sardis, Mississippi

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes segregation in Mississippi during the 1960s

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her high school experiences, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the role of music in her childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her high school experiences, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls barriers to her aspirations for a business career

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her experiences at Coahoma Community College

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls visiting Chicago, Illinois in her youth

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls joining Continental Bank in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls working in human resources for Continental Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes working in financial services for Continental Bank

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls the 1983 mayoral campaign of Harold Washington

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin narrates her photographs, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the Urban Bankers Forum of Chicago, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes the Urban Bankers Forum of Chicago, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls continuing her education in Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin remembers working for Amalgamated Bank of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes working as comptroller for the City of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls becoming budget director for the City of Chicago

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin remembers her work with Mayor Richard M. Daley

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls how she became treasurer of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin recalls managing the Y2K panic as treasurer of Chicago

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin reflects upon her term as Chicago city treasurer

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her career after serving as city treasurer

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her Northern Trust Corporation vice presidency

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin talks about becoming chief procurement officer of Chicago

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her role as chief procurement officer of Chicago

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin talks about advocating for minority contractors

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her hopes for the African American community

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin reflects upon her life

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her plans for the future

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her hobbies and family life

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 6 Story: 9 - Barbara Ann Lumpkin narrates her photographs, pt. 3

DASession

1$1

DATape

4$5

DAStory

5$4

DATitle
Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes working as comptroller for the City of Chicago
Barbara Ann Lumpkin describes her career after serving as city treasurer
Transcript
So you're approached by the Daley [Richard M. Daley] administration in '95 [1995] (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Um-hm. In '95 [1995].$$How did that happen?$$It was a surprise to me, too (laughter). Mayor Daley had just won re-election in 1995 and he also had just received the authority to take over the public school system [Chicago Public Schools] and as a result, he was re-tooling his cabinet. The budget chief at the time and his chief of staff and a few of the people who were going over to head the Chicago [Illinois] public school system and so they were moving some people around, the person who was comptroller at the time was being promoted to be CFO [chief financial officer] and they said they were looking to recruit the new comptroller. I received a call one day and I'm thinking, "Oh my God, have we blown their account?" I told the staff, "Look, if we're not balanced or we've blown this account, we're all fired so, oh, my God, oh, my God." But that wasn't what it was about at all. They invited me to come over for coffee and I thought, "Well, I suppose so, you know, I'll walk over, you're a client." They didn't say why, they just said, "Have you ever considered government, city government before?" And I said, "Well, I guess not, I've always worked in a bank."$$And those were the days of Paul Vallas and Gery Chico being the two (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Yeah, that was the group that had gone over.$$Yeah, had moved over, right.$$Mm-hm. And as a result, Diane Aigotti was named budget director and then, you know, then there was the comptroller role they were looking for. So I went over and we were just chatting and I was totally convinced in my walk over that I really loved what I was doing, that I was having a really great time, this was a rather unique opportunity for someone like me, you know, the staff and my bosses and all of us. We had this great working relationship and we were really making some significant inroads and, you know, I was just wanting to do what I could to pull that all off. And, and besides, they never said, when they invited me over what the assignment was, they just said, "Would you want to come over and talk to us?" So I went over and spent actually about an hour with them before--being myself, I said, "Okay, what exactly were you talking about. What job are we exactly talking about?" And they said, "Well, we're looking to fill the position of comptroller." I said, "Oh. Then that's different, let's, you know, let's talk more." So that's how we started the conversation. There were I'm sure, a lineup of very talented people. All of them I don't know who they were or whatever, but I just can imagine that a City of Chicago with the talent that it has that there was any shortage in names.$$I might sound dumb here but, is that, you know, you got a big position in a mid-size bank [Amalgamated Bank of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois]] and, you know, I mean, being the comptroller in the City of Chicago, is that more attractive than what you, I mean--$$Well, this is what I always try to do in my career is layer experiences. I thought that, as I still do, that adding the additional experience and the opportunity to see and learn the operation of doing a bond issue from the side of an issuer, which the City of Chicago is and which the comptroller is all responsible for, seeing it from the issuing side, because remember in the past when I was working with the transactions and the clients, it was from the bank's perspective but not from the client's perspective, and I thought I would have been even a better banker because you understand it all. I was--that was always my goal, to try and get to understand, top to bottom, soup to nuts, so, any conversation I would have with someone or if I was trying to resolve an issue, I'm talking about what I know, not what I'm thinking, or whatever I'm making up, this is a real live experience. This is something that I, you know, can talk about with confidence and I thought, you know, for these, and this is my reasoning, I thought, you know these assignments are very high intensity, you know, very demanding, long hours, lots and lots of work or whatever. I'll be back in a couple of years. That was what I thought, but it became a life of its own and I ended up in city government almost six years and doing several different things from that assignment.$Did you go to Northern Trust [Northern Trust Corporation, Chicago, Illinois] immediately after you--$$Not immediately thereafter. I, you know, just needed some time to kind of stop working the ninety hours a day and sort of settle. I worked--I went to the mayor's office as a special assistant to the mayor [Richard M. Daley]. I was working on a number of projects. One of the things that I worked on was the mayor had appointed me during my tenure as treasurer to a mayoral task force and that task force was charged with coming up with ways to identify opportunities to utilize minority women-owned firms at the city [Chicago, Illinois]. And I was fortune to have business leaders, public and private sector, higher ed [higher education], medical services, across the board, work with me on that and we served up some really interesting kind of cutting edge, I think, ideas about what the opportunities could be and how we could reshape, how we could restore. And one of the things that was in that report was some of the things that's in place now in city government and it was kind of like how to restructure and instead of calling it purchasing maybe we call it procurement services. So here it is. I just did that assignment and together with everybody else and when that project was over, it was quite an involved one because we met with the various groups and met with the various individuals, met with community, met with, you know, faith-based, met with all the state collators and everybody else and when the new procurement chief was appointed in 2000, I said, "Here's the bulk of the work that I've worked on and here are some of the things that the group thought might work." And I worked on a few of the other projects there in the mayor's office concentrating on maybe finance, or community outreach kind of stuff and while deciding what I would do next. And that's when I went to Northern Trust.$$Okay.$$It was at the end of the year.$$Okay. So it was at the end of 2000, end of 2000. Okay.$$December 2000, I joined Northern Trust.$$Okay. Now how--what position did you hold at Northern Trust?$$I went to Northern Trust in--my official role was senior vice president. I was first placed in the public funds group. My role was, it was like an undefined role, it pretty much one that I supported the leadership of that group and over time, the role sort of morphed into senior vice president and head of its public affairs and government relations kind of group. Kind of a new role that had not yet existed before at the company, and it took on various shapes depending on the nature of what we were doing. But the central core of it was to help position the company in the--and its core products in the communities it served. And if that meant sitting there with some of the investment guys, talking to a client about an investment transaction, that was helping protect the turf. So basically my role was to join the others, to partner with them to help protect and grow the business. Also, interact with all of the key decision makers external to the bank, be it organizations or political figures who would have an impact on the corporation's well-being. Part of my role was a lot of problem-solving, lending a hand in developing strategy to resolve certain things. You might say I got involved in some of the more complicated, more complex situations, which was kind of fun for me because I kind of like the activity. So that was the job. It was--talk about a trailblazer--much of it had to do with a lot of the external business, you know. Anything that might impact the bank's impression, its image or its client base--

The Honorable Judith C. Rice

Former City Treasurer for the City of Chicago, Judith Carol Rice was born on July 30, 1957, in Chicago, Illinois. The granddaughter of sharecroppers and daughter of Thelma Dean Martin and Fred Rice, Chicago’s first African American Police Superintendent, Rice attended Avalon Park Elementary School and Mercy High School. While attending high school, Rice was a member of the drama club and performed in the lead role for her high school’s production of Hello Dolly. Rice graduated from high school in 1975, and attended Northern Illinois University from 1975 to 1976. In 1977, Rice began attending Loyola University and graduated cum laude with her B.A. degree in communications in 1981.

In 1982, Rice was hired to work in the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office. Rice rose from a Victim/Witness Assistant to Assistant to the Illinois State’s Attorney. While working in the Illinois State’s Attorney’s Office, in 1984, Rice decided to further her education by attending John Marshall Law School. In 1988, Rice earned her J.D. degree and was admitted to the Illinois Bar. In 1989, Rice began her career with the City of Chicago serving as Assistant Corporation Counsel. Rice went on to become the city’s managing Deputy Director and then Director of the Department of Revenue from 1993 to 1995. It was in these positions that Rice was instrumental in the complete overhaul of Chicago’s parking ticket collection system. Also in1995, Rice worked as a staff member for Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley.

Between 1996 and 2000, Rice became the first woman commissioner of two of the biggest infrastructure agencies in City of Chicago government; from 1996 to 1999, she served as Commissioner of the Chicago Department of Water, and from 1999 to 2000, she served as head of the Chicago Department of Transportation. In November of 2000, Rice was appointed by Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley as City Treasurer. As City Treasurer, Rice was responsible for all cash and investments for the City of Chicago.

Accession Number

A2005.165

Sex

Female

Interview Date

7/18/2005

Last Name

Rice

Maker Category
Middle Name

C.

Organizations
Schools

Mercy High School

Avalon Park Elementary School

Loyola University Chicago

John Marshall Law School

First Name

Judith

Birth City, State, Country

Chicago

HM ID

RIC10

Favorite Season

Summer

Sponsor

Barbara Burrell

State

Illinois

Favorite Vacation Destination

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

Favorite Quote

None

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

7/30/1957

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pizza

Short Description

City treasurer, city government appointee, and city commissioner The Honorable Judith C. Rice (1957 - ) was the first woman to serve as commissioner of the Chicago Department of Water and head of the Chicago Department of Transportation. Rice also served as City Treasurer for the City of Chicago under the administration of Mayor Richard M. Daley.

Employment

City of Chicago Office of the Treasurer

Cook County State's Attorney's Office

City of Chicago Department of Transportation

City of Chicago Department of Revenue

City of Chicago Department of Water Management

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of the Honorable Judith C. Rice's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her maternal grandparents, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her maternal grandparents, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her mother

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her mother's education and career

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her father's side of the family

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice shares her father's perspective on education

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes how her parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her father's career in the Chicago Police Department

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice reflects upon her father's career in the Chicago Police Department

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes growing up in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes the sights, sounds and smells of growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes Chicago's Avalon Park community

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her family's relationship to church

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her early home life

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice remembers her educational experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her time at Mercy High School in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice explains how she entered Chicago's Loyola University

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes majoring in corporate communications

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her work for the Cook County State's Attorney's Office

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her time at Chicago's John Marshall Law School, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her time at Chicago's John Marshall Law School, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice remembers passing the Illinois State Bar

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her work for the Cook County State's Attorney's Office in 1988

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice talks about the U.S. criminal justice system

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice reflects upon the Cook County State's Attorney's Office in the 1990s

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her career trajectory in the 1990s

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her work as Chicago's revenue director

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice talks about Chicago's parking regulations

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her work as Chicago's water commissioner

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes the benefits of law school

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice recalls becoming Chicago's treasurer

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her role as Chicago's treasurer

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes Our Money Matters financial literacy programs

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice reflects upon her work as Chicago's treasurer

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice talks about running for political office and her investment philosophy

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her hopes for the African American community

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her parents' support

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice reflects upon her life

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes how she would like to be remembered

DASession

1$1

DATape

1$4

DAStory

10$1

DATitle
The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her father's career in the Chicago Police Department
The Honorable Judith C. Rice describes her work as Chicago's water commissioner
Transcript
Your father [HistoryMaker Fred Rice, Jr.] became the first black superintendent of police for the City of Chicago [Illinois], right? Can you tell us about and how it affected, I guess the rest of the family, you know?$$Sure. I think the road that he took to achieve that position really affected us most of all because, when I was a small child, my father did a lot of different jobs. He was a taxi driver. He worked for the post office for a while. And he didn't seem to really have his foot in anything. And he applied to the [Chicago] Police Department and to the [Chicago] Fire Department. And he always says that, that in his mind whoever called him first was where he was going. And he felt that he could push into either of those departments. The police department called him up first and he went through that process. But at the time he was hired on the police department, blacks were not just part of the whole department, city-wide. He had to go into the park district police [Chicago Park District Police Department]. And so he went into the park district police and worked there in the park system and then somewhere, I think in the early '60s [1960s], the police department expanded and allowed African Americans to come a part of the general force. And he was a patrolman for a while. All through my childhood he was a patrolman and then my mother [Thelma Martin Rice] said, "You know you've been a patrolman for a long time, and you're not going anywhere in this department, and you need to start taking the tests to get some rank." And he kind of you know poo-poo her, I don't need to do that, that's one thing. So it was my mother that really got on him to take the tests. And he took the sergeant's exam and scored very high and became a sergeant and then he went on to take the lieutenant's and captain's. And I think his first kind of break in the department was being named district commander. And he was named district commander, I think of both the Fillmore [Police] District and Englewood Police District. And Englewood, that's when he really started to get into things and become part of the higher echelon of the department. So the night that he was named. And I think the other opportunity--opportune thing was Harold Washington becoming mayor. Because Harold had the same background as my father. As a matter of fact, they knew of each other all their lives. Harold was a bit older than my father. But they came from the same place and knew the same people. And so I think it came down to three final contenders, and he hung out there a few days, not knowing what the result would be. But I remember being at home watching television and the night that he was named and he knew but he would not tell any of us (laughter) until it was official. And just the excitement of all of us that were there. And I think a couple of his sisters and brothers where over. And it just--just felt such a since of pride in him and his accomplishments and kind of the road that he had taken to get to that position.$$Okay. So this was in 1984, '83 [1983] (simultaneous)?$$(Simultaneous) Yeah it would have been '83 [1983]--I think '83, '84, somewhere in there. Because he retired in '87 [1987].$Now you were commissioner of water from '96 [1996] 'til 2000, now what does a commissioner of water do in the City of Chicago [Illinois]?$$Well, the city has the function of providing fresh drinking water to the city, so all the water's taken out of Lake Michigan and purified, so the commissioner's got to make sure that all the com- staff is in place to do that. All the infrastructure is happening, all of the projects that surround providing fresh drinking water are done. So, we're more--I think I (unclear) as more of a planning phase and project manager and implementation in that department [Chicago Department of Water Management]. One of the things we did was we privatized the whole engineering division because they were coming out with only a couple of projects a year, and so we got a private company in to help us to really spit out different projects that we had to get done to get the whole water system modernized. And we moved up to replacing like fifty miles of water mains in the City of Chicago. Tried to keep the infrastructure tight, keep it current. And it was--it was an awesome job. I mean I attended a lot of water management programs all over the country. And got us involved with different water management groups that tried to bring new technology to the city. And there are still plans sitting there that probably will be implemented in the future, that we participated in bringing to the table.$$Okay, so really what you have developed, I guess, is a reputation for being--manage well--$$Yes, I think if anything that is the way I look at it. And even being treasurer I look at, what things need to happen in this department to make sure that we are a protecting the revenue in terms of getting it into the right banks and being--maximizing the city's revenue. How are we going to get the biggest return for the monies that we have. And how are we going to have the systems in place that are going to be able to help us do that?