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Billy Joe Evans

Chemist and chemistry professor Billy Joe Evans was born on August 18, 1942 in Macon, Georgia. Evans grew up amidst the racism and segregation policies of the south during the 1950s. Evans’ father, Will Evans, worked part-time as a coordinator for the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and went to Washington, D.C. to confer and strategize with founder and President A. Philip Randolph about how labor issues facing African American in Macon. In 1959, he graduated from Ballard High School, the largest high school in Macon, Georgia. Following graduation, Evans entered Morehouse College and he received his B.S. degree in chemistry in 1963. Evans went on to pursue graduate studies at the University of Chicago. The State of Georgia paid the tuition difference between the University of Georgia and the University of Chicago, and in 1968 Evans earned his Ph.D. degree in chemistry. His Ph.D. thesis was entitled: “Order-disorder phenomena and hyperfine interactions in Spinel ferrites.”.

Evans accepted a position on the faculty of the University of Michigan in 1970 after performing some post-doctoral work at the University of Manitoba and teaching at Howard University. He has held research positions at the University of Marburg, the Naval Research Institute, and the Ford Motor Company. Evans initially started his work at the University of Michigan as an assistant professor of geology and mineralogy, but he joined the chemistry department as an associate professor in 1974. Evans has continued to pursue his research in solid state chemistry. His primary interests include the synthesis and characterization of crystal/chemical structures properties that directly affect the quality of human environments. His contributions to the firld were recognized by the University of Michigan who promoted him to full professor in 1986. Evans is the principal or co-author of more than 90 scientific publications. Evans is the principal or co-author of more than 90 scientific publications. He has been invited to give lectures at the National Conferences on Magnetism and Magnetic Materials, the International Conference on Magnetism, Gordon Conferences and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Advanced Study Institute. Evans was named professor emeritus of the University of Michigan in 2007.

Evans has been the recipient of many honors and prizes for his dedication to the improvement of the quality and accessibility of higher education for all students and for his work in the sciences. In 1991, he was honored with the Statewide Distinguished Faculty Award. He received the 1997 American Chemical Society Camille and Henry Dreyfus Award for Encouraging Disadvantaged Students in Careers in the Chemical Sciences. Evans’ professional awards include the 1995 Manufacturing Chemists Association Catalysts Award, the 1997 American Chemical Society Camille and Henry Dreyfus Award for Encouraging Disadvantaged Students in Careers in the Chemical Sciences. The following year Evans was named the winner of the Presidential Award for Excellence in Science, Mathematics, and Engineering by the National Science Foundation.

Billy Joe Evans was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on 10/22/2012.

Accession Number

A2012.177

Sex

Male

Interview Date

10/22/2012

Last Name

Evans

Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Joe

Schools

George Washington Carver Elementary

Ballard Hudson High School

Morehouse College

University of California, Berkeley

Macalester College

University of Chicago

Search Occupation Category
First Name

Billy

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

EVA06

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Europe, Austria, Germany

Favorite Quote

Who Told You That?

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Michigan

Birth Date

8/18/1942

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Ann Arbor

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Banana Pudding

Short Description

Chemist and chemistry professor Billy Joe Evans (1942 - ) was the former director and professor in the Materials Science Department at Howard University and a professor emeritus of chemistry at the University of Michigan.

Employment

University of Michigan

Atlanta University

Howard University

University of Chicago

University of Manitoba

National Bureau of Standards (NBS)

Morehouse College

Favorite Color

Light Blue, Gray

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Billy Joe Evans' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans describes his father's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans talks about how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans describes his parents' personalities and who he takes after

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his siblings (part 1)

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his mother's influence

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his siblings (part 2)

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans describes his earliest childhood memory

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans describes his childhood neighborhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his involvement in the church growing up

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his elementary school experience

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his elementary school teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his high school

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about George Washington Carver

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his teachers at Ballard Hudson High School

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans talks about how he got into Morehouse College

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans talks about Morehouse College and Emmitt Till

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his math and science preparation for college

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his interests in the aeronautics field

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his role models and favorite teachers

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Billy Joe Evans talks about perceptions of African Americans in the medical field

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about Hamilton Holmes

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his peers at Morehouse College

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about the distinction between scientists and doctors

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans talks about Dr. Henry McBay

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans talks about the differences between Southerners and Northerners

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans talks about Dr. Henry McBay's teaching philosophy

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his experience in Chicago

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about meeting his wife

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about the State of Georgia's subsidization of black's education

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his research experience at the University of Chicago

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his near death experience in Chicago

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans talks about receiving his post-doctoral appointment at the University of Manitoba

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Billy Joe Evans describes his dissertation, "Order, Disorder and Hyperfine Interactions in Spinel Ferrites"

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his research on order/disorder in magnetic materials

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his experience at Howard University

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about how he came to the University of Michigan

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans talks about Warren Henry

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his experience at the University of Michigan

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his grants and professional activities

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his career prospects after completing his graduate studies

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his experience at the Danforth Foundation

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his professional activities in Germany

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans talks about the Program of Scholarly Research for Urban/Minority High School Students

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans talks about the Comprehensive Studies Program and the Research Club at the University of Michigan

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his professional appointments with the AAAS and Atlanta University

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his work at the University of Michigan

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his consultancy appointments with the Dynamic Testing Division, DuPont Merck, and the Louisiana State Board of Regents

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his consultancy appointment with the Inkster Michigan Public School System

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his awards

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Billy Joe Evans and Larry Crowe talk about Lloyd Ferguson

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Billy Joe Evans talks about Dr. Henry McBay

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his awards and professional activities

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Billy Joe Evans reflects on his career

Tape: 8 Story: 9 - Billy Joe Evans reflects on his legacy

Tape: 8 Story: 10 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his hopes and concerns for the African American community

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans talks about his family

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Billy Joe Evans reflects on how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Billy Joe Evans describes his photos

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Billy Joe Evans describes his photos

DASession

1$1

DATape

6$7

DAStory

1$4

DATitle
Billy Joe Evans talks about his research on order/disorder in magnetic materials
Billy Joe Evans talks about the Program of Scholarly Research for Urban/Minority High School Students
Transcript
All right, University of Manitoba [Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada].$$Right.$$So your fellowship was carried out in the Department of Physics.$$Right.$$Okay, so yeah.$$But my, see when I was in Chicago [Illinois] I had already worked with physicists and I was in a low temperature laboratory which really is physics, almost totally physics. And my research was relevant to physics, not really to chemistry. So, and this fellow, his name was Morris, he had written one of the standard textbooks in magnetism and being a physicist he did not know as much chemistry as he knew he needed to know so the best way to solve that problem was to have a chemist come into the lab who also knew some physics. So I went into the lab specifically to help them solve a chemical problem they were having, which I was able to do. But in the meantime, we all, I also was able to do some of my own physics, again in order/disorder in magnetic materials.$$Well I was asked to ask you about what is meant by a permanent magnet?$$Right. We have different kinds of magnetism, all--there's something on this diamagnetism. Any material that contains electrons will have diamagnetism as one component of its properties. A material, doesn't matter what it is, gas, solid, liquid, if it has unpaired electrons, one, let's say a single electron, it will exhibit something known as paramagnetism. If you take a material that is paramagnetic that just has some electrons that are unpaired, you put it in a magnet, it will be attracted by the magnet, not very strongly but it will be attracted. Once you move the magnet away it remembers none of the magnetism. So with a paramagnet you can only tell what's going on with it when you put a mag, in the presence of a magnetic field. Then there are materials where you can have unpaired electron spans but they will be ordered so they all point up, they all point down or maybe one is up and one is down. And those configurations can be stable over long periods of time. But if they're all pointed up with moments, with electrons like that, they have a moment. They have a magnetic moment and that moment doesn't change. That's a permanent magnet. So there are some--and a permanent magnet can either be a metal or it can be an oxide so something known as alnico, aluminum nickel cobalt, that's an alloy that it's a, it's metal and most of the little dogs that you buy, the trick shops, they have Alnico magnets.$$(Unclear) of those, I mean they used to be popular in the 50s [1950s] these little Scotty dogs, I was hypnotized.$$That's exactly, that's right.$$I used to play with right with (unclear).$$One would--that's, I did the same thing. That's probably Alnico magnets. Then there are the class of magnets that are oxides and the most common one is something called a hexaferrite which occurs in nature. You can find them in Sweden, very complicated chemical compositions and complicated arrangements of atoms and so that would be a permanent magnet. So the refrigerator magnets, permanent magnets and they are made out of oxide materials that have been embedded in a plastic or a rubber material. And there's been virtually a revolution, no one knows about it but the starter motors on cars used to be very large and they had copper wiring on them. And the copper wire was used to create a magnetic field and then you could make the motor turn in that magnetic field. Well for about twenty years, they've been using permanent magnets, oxide magnets to create the magnetic field that you need in a starter motor. So now the starter motor is only about that big and that's because they're using these permanent magnets. They used to make them here in Michigan. Hitachi is a big manufacturer. General Electric used to make them but Hitachi bought the General Electric factory up near Michigan State and now Hitachi tends to dominate the market in these permanent magnets. But the door closers, the windshield wipers, they're all operated by these permanent magnet oxides so they're quite common in the environment. People are unaware of them but they are there.$$Okay, so instead of using the old magnets that we used to create in grade school with the dry cells when you wrap the--$$Yeah, right, right.$$--wire around (unclear).$$Right, right, right.$$They're using the permanent magnets now?$$You can now just use a permanent magnet for that, yeah.$Now in 1980 you were appointed director of the program of Scholarly Research for urban minority high school students.$$Right, right, right.$$And a lot of the people we've interviewed at some point get involved in STEM programs for high school students for youth.$$Right right.$$So how did this come about?$$Well actually I was the, I don't like this term but I'll use it, I started that program. What I noticed in my work here at [the University of] Michigan was that the black kids would come in and they would quickly degenerate to mediocrity in their work. And my assumption was that maybe they were not seeing the best kinds of things that one does here at the University of Michigan. So at that point I went over and we had a black associate vice president for academic affairs. His name was Richard English, was a social worker but he was one, a person that one could talk to. So I told English about my idea and that I wanted to try to do something. He supported me and the university allocated $15,000 for me to do this program. And initially we worked at one high school in Detroit [Michigan]. It was a selective high school but a small high school called Renaissance High. And so the first year the program was called the Renaissance High Project. We couldn't think of anything else and that really was what it was, a project at this one high school. And so the idea was to involve high school students in real research at the University of Michigan in the same way that we have graduate students. So I selected a group of faculty members who agreed to do this and the idea was that the students would come up in the summer but they would come every vacation that they had during their academic year, on weekends to continue their research. So instead of trying to do a research project in three summer months, we knew that was not enough time. You don't do research in that short a period of time. We would work over the entire academic year and so that's what we did. And there was a gifted administrator in Detroit, Beverly Thomas who was a music person but she understood what we were trying to do. She suggested as we were coming to the end of the summer phase of the program that we should have a symposium and the students would present their work. So I said okay we'll do that. And so the students worked all during the fall, during their Christmas vacation and oh, about the middle of January we would have a symposium. So the students gave ten-minute talks, they could only talk as long as we would talk in our professional meetings. And we worked with them all of the time for a month getting their talks together. And so the symposium came, we had it at Detroit at the Engineering Society a very scholarly technical setting. And without warning we knew nothing about it, Shapiro was in the back of the room. He was president of the university at that time. So he came in to see what we had done with his money and the students did fantastic. And when it was over Shapiro had allocated for the next year $150,000 for the program. So we went up by a factor of ten in funding and we continued that program for about fifteen years, fourteen or fifteen years and it was funded at that level for that period of time. We had about a three year period when the National Science Foundation funded us but we didn't like their money. They wanted to tell us what to do and we did not agree with them on that. They wanted us to have recreational activities and things like that for the students. We said no, our students will find out how to recreate themselves. The university is rich in those kinds of facilities and we're not going to spend our time worrying about that. But we did accept funding from them for three years and we didn't do it anymore. And I think we must have gotten about a half million dollars in funding from them. But the remarkable thing about that program was that during that period of time Detroit had more Westinghouse winners than they had had--the Westinghouse Science Talent Search had been going on for about since the 40s [1940s] I believe and in just this ten year period, Detroit had more winners in the Westinghouse than they had had for the previous forty years. And most of these kids, not all of them, most of these kids were black kids and most of the kids came from ordinary families. Their families were not professionals. One of the characteristics of the Westinghouse winners during that time was that the parents tended to be professionals, Ph.D.s, scientists themselves. But these were just ordinary kids. And so it showed what one could do with the general population just by doing those kinds of things at the university was already very good at doing. What's so distressing about that activity is that we--our last year of doing that program was 1994 and Detroit has not had a Westinghouse winner since. It's now called the Intel--Intel now does it but Intel and Westinghouse, that's the same project, same program. So, in what '94 [1994], that's about eighteen years so in eighteen years there has not been a single kid of any description from Detroit to be a Westinghouse winner, very distressing. And it says a little bit--and we still have the STEM programs. We probably have more STEM programs today than we had in 1981 or 1994. But it says something about what people are doing in these STEM programs.$$Okay.$$We should have more winners than we've had.

The Honorable C. Jack Ellis

Mayor C. Jack Ellis was born on January 6, 1946 in Macon, Georgia to William Claude Ellis and Willie Mae Glover. Ellis was one of thirteen children. Ellis attended public schools in Macon, Georgia and earned his B.A. degree at St. Leo College in St. Leo, Florida.

Ellis enlisted in the U.S. Army, where he served as a combat soldier and paratrooper in Vietnam in the 101st Airborne Division. He was awarded the Combat Infantryman’s Badge, three Bronze Stars, the Army Commendation Medal for Heroism and the Purple Heart for wounds received in combat. Ellis worked with Reverend Jesse Jackson’s second presidential campaign in 1988, and then went to work for the Census Bureau in from 1988 to January of 1991, and managed a cable television system on St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands. He also hosted a public access television show focusing on public and political affairs. In 1988, Ellis helped to manage Reverend Jesse Jackson’s presidential campaign for the State of Georgia.

In 1999, Ellis was elected the 40th mayor of Macon, Georgia, becoming the first African American Mayor in the City’s 176-year history. He was then re-elected In 2003. During his tenure as Mayor, Ellis’s administration was responsible for approximately $1 million in loans to disadvantaged businesses. Under Ellis’s leadership, the City successfully won a federal Hope VI grant to improve public housing, in addition to other grants and federal aid. His administration constructed over 300 new affordable housing units and eliminated over 2000 sub-standard houses. Also, during Ellis’s administration, the City of Macon was designated as a city of excellence by the Georgia Municipal Association and awarded the City Livability Award by the
U.S. Conference of Mayors. First Lady Laura Bush designated Macon as a “Preserve American Community.” Ellis also created the C. Jack Ellis Youth Foundation which assisted underprivileged and special needs children in America, the Caribbean and Africa. After Ellis left office in 2007, he was appointed honorary consul for Uganda to promote the country in the southeastern United States. Three years later, Ellis announced that he would seek a third term as Mayor of Macon. In 2011, Ellis officially began his mayoral campaign.

Ellis has received many distinctions and honors, including being named one of the top leaders in the State of Georgia. As Mayor, Ellis served as vice president for the World Conference of Mayors for Tourism and Investment and chairman of the International Affairs Committee for the National Conference of Black Mayors. Ellis is a member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Disabled American Veterans, the NAACP and a 32nd degree Mason and a Shriner. His is the father of five children, and lives in Atlanta Georgia.

Clarence Jack Ellis was interviewed by The HistoryMakers on April 22, 2011.

Accession Number

A2011.027

Sex

Male

Interview Date

4/22/2011

Last Name

Ellis

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Jack

Occupation
Schools

Eugenia Hamilton Elementary School

Ballard Hudson High School

Saint Leo University

Michigan State University

Lansing Community College

Georgia Perimeter College

New Ballard Hudson Middle School

Speakers Bureau

Yes

Speakers Bureau Availability

Any

First Name

C.

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

ELL03

Speakers Bureau Preferred Audience

Any

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

No

Favorite Season

Fall, Spring

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands

Favorite Quote

People Always Try To Give You A Six For A Nine.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

1/6/1946

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Broccoli

Short Description

Mayor The Honorable C. Jack Ellis (1946 - ) was elected the 40th Mayor of Macon, Georgia, becoming the first African American mayor in the City’s 176-year history.

Employment

United States Army

St. Croix Cable TV

United States Census Bureau

City Of Macon, Georgia

Chester Engineers

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of The Honorable C. Jack Ellis' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his father's upbringing

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his paternal grandparents

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his father's work ethic

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about his father's siblings, pt. 1

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes how his parents met

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about his father's siblings, pt. 2

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers his mother's personality

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about the origin of his name

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis lists his siblings, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis lists his siblings, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his first experience of racism

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers his family's first farm

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his childhood home

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his earliest childhood memories

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his early education

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers his favorite elementary school teacher

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his influences at Ballad Hudson Junior High School in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers Ballard Hudson Senior High School in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers completing his high school diploma

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remember segregation in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls President John Fitzgerald Kennedy's assassination

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about race relations in the U.S. Army and in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his decision to become a paratrooper

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his role in the Detroit riots of 1967

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers serving in the Vietnam War

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis reflects upon his transition to civilian life

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers becoming a U.S. Army recruiter

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his three children

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about the effects of Agent Orange

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers developing an interest in politics

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his experiences as a U.S. Army recruiter

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers working at St. Croix Cable TV

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his role in Reverend Jesse L. Jackson's presidential campaign in 1988

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls working for the U.S. Census Bureau

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers his return to Macon, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers his early political involvement in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his unsuccessful political campaigns

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his mayoral campaign platform

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his efforts to improving relations between police and the community

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls securing a Hope VI grant for the City of Macon, Georgia

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls establishing a sister city in Ghana

Tape: 4 Story: 12 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls the Safe School Initiative

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls the election for his second term as mayor

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes the C. Jack Ellis Youth Foundation

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes partnerships with African leaders

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis reflects upon his second term as mayor

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis explains his solidarity with Hugo Chavez

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes the racism he faced as the mayor of Macon, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about the discrimination against Muslim Americans

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes his campaign for a third mayoral term

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis describes the demographic changes in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis talks about his family

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis reflects upon his life

Tape: 5 Story: 12 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - The Honorable C. Jack Ellis narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$3

DAStory

11$5

DATitle
The Honorable C. Jack Ellis remembers completing his high school diploma
The Honorable C. Jack Ellis recalls his role in the Detroit riots of 1967
Transcript
So this guy [R.J. Martin] never allowed me to come back to school [Ballard Hudson Senior High School, Macon, Georgia]. I joined the [U.S.] Army instead. Joined the Army, became a paratrooper and of course with, in mind of finishing high school. And let me tell you how small the world is and how good God is. I wound up being stationed in Paris, France, right outside of Paris. And I had, I was stationed at NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] headquarters. I was at, this time I'm--this is a year and a half, I'm almost nineteen years old. My commanding officer, captain of mine was a gentleman from Macon, Georgia named Arthur Rich, a white guy. Now the black man put me out of school, he was a black--Dr. Martin. And my father [William Ellis] worked at Mercer University [Macon, Georgia] and worked for his father, Dr. Rich, Arthur Rich, Sr. I'm in Arthur Rich, Jr.'s command in Paris. He came to--Arthur Rich, Sr. came to visit his son at Christmas of '64 [1964], '65 [1965], I can't recall. Had to be '64 [1964], Christmas of '64 [1964], came to visit his son and said that, "You know there's a--." My name happened to come up. I was from Macon. And he said, "Well his father works at Mercer University," where he was a professor of music and my father also did work at his house as a groundskeeper, took care of his lawn and all of this and he wanted to meet me. So they sent for me to go to the captain's house for dinner which I was a private first class. Private first class, we don't get invited to captains' houses for dinner as a rule. And I went and it was--wanted to introduce me to his father who knew my father. The next day or shortly thereafter when we were back to work, it was during the Christmas holidays and we were back to work, he looked at my file and said, "I notice that you didn't finish high school before you joined the Army." I said, "No, that's why I joined the Army." I gave him the story about how I wanted to finish high school and what had happened. And he says, "I will make a deal with you. If you can think you can finish in one year, I will arrange for you to go to the American overseas dependent school and you'll get a high school diploma." And that's how I finished high school. Finished high school there and started taking college courses at the University of Maryland overseas branch [University of Maryland University College]. And Arthur Rich, Jr. and I today are very good friends. He, when I ran for mayor the first time, my first check came from him. He's a retired colonel now living in Alexandria, Virginia, went on to be a real estate mogul.$And then shortly after, Charles de Gaulle, the former president, the late president of France decided he would withdraw from NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization], so, which meant that we had to leave all the military, all the U.S. military personnel had to leave France and I was transferred, transferred to Germany and this would have been in 1966. So I was transferred to a paratrooper outfit in Germany and had a great time in Europe. I, matter of fact I was having so much fun that I wanted to stay and I--this is '67 [1967]. The war in Vietnam [Vietnam War] was raging at that time. Now I know about the war, you know but I'm in Europe. The war is in Vietnam and now I'm a staff sergeant and I attempted to extend my stay in Europe for at least another two years. I had had a sports car. I was having fun running up and down the autobahns in Germany from Frankfurt [Frankfurt am Main, Germany] to Wiesbaden [Germany] where I was stationed. But when I requested this extension, not only did they deny it but they sent me orders telling me that I had been reassigned to Fort Campbell, Kentucky for further shipment to Vietnam. This would have been in the spring of 2007 [sic.] so I came back to the states and wound up in Fort Campbell and became a member of the one 'o--101st Airborne Division and started out training. And we were--what I remember about that period is that at that time Detroit [Michigan] was burning. Detroit had the big riots in Detroit in August of sixty (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Sixty-seven [1967].$$--August of '67 [1967]. So here I am in Fort Campbell training to go to Vietnam to fight the enemy, the Communist quote, unquote, enemy and we were diverted to Detroit to help put down an urban riot and, and to kill young boys and girls in the inner city of Detroit which didn't register well with me. And, but as a soldier you do what you're told. So we stayed there for a few weeks and when that was over, went back to Fort Campbell and got on a plane, went to--shipped out to Vietnam. And let me, now--$$Well you have to tell me more about the riot in Detroit.$$Yeah. Yeah.$$Okay, about, you know, how--what happened and how--$$Well what was happening if you recall, I don't know whether you remember this in this era. The Michigan National Guard [Michigan Army National Guard] had been called in to--the governor of Michigan [George W. Romney] had called the National Guard and I think Governor Romney [Mitt Romney], the guy that's running for president, I think his father was the governor of Michigan at that time. I know it was a Republican if I'm not mistaken. They had called the National Guard and the National Guard didn't deal softly if you will with the rioters. They were shooting to kill, you know. They had shoot to kill orders. Well that just kind of you know made things worse. So they called and they said, "Hey these guys are not trained to do this and they are really going to make things worth here--worse." So they pulled the National Guard back and they asked for the 101st Airborne Division to come in and help maintain order. And I recall I was a young staff sergeant, reconnaissance platoon sergeant training to go to Vietnam to do this and I remember a captain telling me to use a flamethrower to burn down a building where a couple--we had received a couple of sniper rounds, probably someone from--had a .22 caliber rifle and I refused the order. I refused to do it. I refused to do it because I thought it was overwhelming force that we would be using on maybe a seventeen, eighteen, a twenty year old black kid with a rifle, with a .22 caliber rifle. And he wanted me to use a flamethrower to just burn the building down and it was a two story building. There could have very well been on the top floor and I refused that order. And nothing ever became of it but I did refuse a direct order to do that and I told him it wasn't necessary. I thought we could cordon this area off and bring some sense to it without burning down an entire building.

Harold Pates

Educator and cultural activist Harold Pates was born October 31, 1931, in Macon, Mississippi. His great aunt, raised in slavery, lost two fingers to her master for attempting to read. Pates’ parents, Amanda Beasley Pates and Squire Pates were graduates of Bolivar Training School in Mound Bayou, Mississsippi. Migrating to Chicago, Illinois, Pates attended Forestville Elementary School and DuSable High School graduating in 1948. Taught music by DuSable’s Captain Walter Dyett, Pates played with Eddie Harris, Richard Davis, John Gilmore, Jimmy Ellis and other future greats. Pates graduated from Wilson Junior College in 1952 and DePaul University with his B.A. degree in English in 1954. He earned his M.A. degree from DePaul in 1956 and received his PhD degree from the University of Chicago in 1976.

Pates taught at Fuller Elementary School and Forestville Elementary School, and was assistant principal of DuSable Upper Grade Center from 1964 to 1968. He served as a counselor at DuSable Upper Grade Center and High School and as a guidance counselor for the Hyde Park Evening School. As teacher and administrator, Pates joined Lawrence Landry, Lu and Jorja Palmer, Rev. C.T. Vivian, Lorenzo Martin, Bobby E. Wright, and others in agitating for African American concerns in the Chicago Public Schools. In 1968, he joined Loop College where he became director of the Admissions Department. Pates also taught at Loyola University, George Williams College, Northeastern Illinois University, and Concordia College. He also helped plan the first Upward Bound Program. Appointed dean of career programs at Malcolm X College in 1981, Pates moved on to Kennedy-King College as a dean in 1983. In 1986, Pates was named president of Kennedy-King College, serving until 1997. At Kennedy-King, he provided access for cultural and civic organizations and events at an unprecedented level.

Active in efforts to generate an African version of the history and culture of Africa and to infuse the black experience into the educational system, Pates was a founder of the Chicago Communiversity and the Association of African Educators with Anderson Thompson in the late 1960s. He was a founding member of the Kemetic Institute, the Association of Black Psychologists, the National Association of Black School Educators, the Black United Front, the Chicago Task Force for Black Political Empowerment, the Association for the Study of Classical African Civilizations, and the Harold Washington Institute. Recipient of numerous awards, ranging from the Chancellors Award for outstanding Leadership to the Muntu Dance Theatre’s Alyo Award, Pates currently serves on the board of the Black United Fund of Illinois and the advisory board of the Jacob H. Carruthers Center for Inner City Studies of Northeastern Illinois University. He is founding director of the All African World Virtual University. Fit, playing full court basketball into his 70s, Pates, now retired, enjoys golf and playing jazz on the cornet.

A widower, Pates has a grown daughter and son.

Accession Number

A2005.263

Sex

Male

Interview Date

12/12/2005 |and| 7/10/2006

Last Name

Pates

Maker Category
Schools

Du Sable Leadership Academy

University of Chicago

DePaul University

Kennedy–King College

Forrestville Elementary School

Speakers Bureau

Yes

First Name

Harold

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

PAT04

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

Palm Springs, California

Favorite Quote

Ain't Nobody Right But God.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

10/31/1931

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Pie (Sweet Potato)

Short Description

Cultural activist, college president, and teacher Harold Pates (1931 - ) is the former president of Kennedy-King College in Chicago. He has worked with numerous organizations dedicated to infusing the African American experience into the educational system, and is founding director of the All African World Virtual University.

Employment

Fuller Elementary School

Wisconsin Steel Mill

Forestville Elementary School

DuSable High School

Loop College

Malcolm X College

Kennedy-King College

Favorite Color

Black

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Harold Pates' interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Harold Pates lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes his mother's family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes his mother's family history in the A.M.E. church

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls working conditions in his maternal family's community in the South

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls traveling to Mississippi as a boy

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Harold Pates explains why his parents sent him south for the summers

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Harold Pates describes his mother's personality, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes his mother's personality, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Harold Pates describes his father's family background

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Harold Pates relates his paternal family's stories from the era of slavery

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls spending summers in Macon, Mississippi as a boy

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Harold Pates describes confrontations with whites in Mississippi, pt. 1

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls confrontations with whites in Mississippi, pt. 2

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Harold Pates describes his father's community in Mound Bayou, Mississippi

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Harold Pates recalls his father's move from Mississippi to Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls his father's work for the post office

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes his siblings

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes his sister's career as an opera singer

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Harold Pates describes his earliest childhood memory, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Harold Pates describes his earliest childhood memory, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Harold Pates describes the sights, sounds and smells of his childhood

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Harold Pates remembers learning to drive at the age of twelve

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood during his childhood

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Harold Pates recalls performers who lived in and visited Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls his activities as a child in Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Harold Pates describes being a paperboy in Chicago's white neighborhoods

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls running policy as a child in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes influential figures in Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls famous musicians from Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes the geography of his childhood neighborhood on Chicago's South Side

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes his father's civil rights activism

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Harold Pates talks about systemic racial oppression

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls segregation in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Harold Pates describes racial tension in Chicago's South Side neighborhoods

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Harold Pates recalls Chicago's political machine in Bronzeville

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls institutions in Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes businesses in Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls a teacher at Chicago's Forrestville Elementary School

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Harold Pates describes his grade school experiences in Chicago

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Harold Pates describes his extracurricular activities during grade school

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Harold Pates recalls his childhood neighbor William Cousins, Jr.

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Harold Pates describes his favorite activities at Chicago's DuSable High School

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes politically radical community groups in Chicago

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls hearing W.E.B. Du Bois and Paul Robeson speak, pt. 1

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls hearing W.E.B. Du Bois and Paul Robeson speak, pt. 2

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Harold Pates describes the social atmosphere of Chicago's DuSable High School

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Harold Pates recalls musicians who studied at Chicago's DuSable High School

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Harold Pates remembers working as a musician as a teenager

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Harold Pates recalls graduating from Chicago's DuSable High School

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Harold Pates describes working for Wisconsin Steel, pt. 1

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes working for Wisconsin Steel, pt. 2

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes his initial setbacks at Chicago's Wilson Junior College

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Harold Pates reflects on his father's support for his education

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Harold Pates describes his experiences at Chicago's DePaul University

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Harold Pates explains how his DePaul University degree helped him to find a job

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes his academic pursuits at DePaul University

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls befriending Italian Americans at DePaul University

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes his impressions of DePaul University

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes his own and his brother's careers during the 1950s

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls his first position as a teacher in Chicago

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Harold Pates describes teaching at an all-girls school

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Harold Pates describes the lessons he learned early in his teaching career

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Harold Pates recalls his fellow teachers at Chicago's Fuller Elementary School

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls his concern over expulsions at Fuller Elementary School

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes discrimination against black teachers in Chicago Public Schools

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls students from Chicago's Forrestville Elementary School

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls how he enjoyed teaching at Forrestville Elementary School

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls his decision to leave Forrestville Elementary School

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes his disagreements with the principal of Forrestville Elementary School

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls becoming a teacher at Chicago's DuSable Upper Grade Center

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Harold Pates recalls tension between the students and teachers at DuSable Upper Grade Center

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes a violent incident with a student at DuSable Upper Grade Center

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls the overcrowding of Chicago's black schools

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Harold Pates explains how the Willis Wagons controversy mobilized black leadership

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Slating of Harold Pates' interview, session 2

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls racial discrimination in Chicago's trade schools

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - Harold Pates recalls biases in the hiring of principals in Chicago Public Schools

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes working for Galeta Kaar at DuSable Upper Grade Center

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - Harold Pates talks about Reverend Dr. C.T. Vivian

Tape: 12 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls joining Loyola University Chicago's Upward Bound program

Tape: 12 Story: 7 - Harold Pates describes his career ambitions during the late 1960s

Tape: 12 Story: 8 - Harold Pates recalls Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination

Tape: 13 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes tensions around integration in Chicago during the 1950s and 1960s

Tape: 13 Story: 2 - Harold Pates describes the reaction of Chicago's black community to Dr. King's death

Tape: 13 Story: 3 - Harold Pates recalls incidents that led to the Selma to Montgomery marches

Tape: 13 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls his experience in the 1965 Selma to Montgomery march

Tape: 13 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls becoming director of admissions at Chicago's Loop College

Tape: 13 Story: 6 - Harold Pates remembers black organizations in Chicago in the late 1960s

Tape: 14 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes the influence of the University of Chicago in Chicago's Woodlawn neighborhood

Tape: 14 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls the rise of the Blackstone Rangers

Tape: 14 Story: 3 - Harold Pates recalls mediating between gangs in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 14 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls the growth of African American studies programs

Tape: 14 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls his involvement in the National Association for College Admission Counseling

Tape: 14 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls the founding of Chicago's Communiversity

Tape: 14 Story: 7 - Harold Pates recalls the rise of the Black Power movement in the late 1960s

Tape: 15 Story: 1 - Harold Pates reflects on the importance of black institutions

Tape: 15 Story: 2 - Harold Pates talks about the educational philosophy of Chicago's Communiversity

Tape: 15 Story: 3 - Harold Pates describes problems with the Eurocentric version of history

Tape: 15 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes the structure of Chicago's Communiversity

Tape: 15 Story: 5 - Harold Pates recalls a quarrel with Sol Tax at the University of Chicago

Tape: 15 Story: 6 - Harold Pates reflects upon the mission of the Communiversity

Tape: 16 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes his administrative tenure at Chicago's Loop College

Tape: 16 Story: 2 - Harold Pates recalls fellow faculty members at Chicago's Loop College

Tape: 16 Story: 3 - Harold Pates recalls becoming a dean of Chicago's Malcolm X College

Tape: 16 Story: 4 - Harold Pates recalls being appointed president of Chicago's Kennedy-King College

Tape: 16 Story: 5 - Harold Pates describes the politics of Kennedy-King College

Tape: 16 Story: 6 - Harold Pates recalls a negative news story about Kennedy-King College

Tape: 16 Story: 7 - Harold Pates recalls community engagement at Kennedy-King College

Tape: 17 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes his policies as Kennedy-King College president

Tape: 17 Story: 2 - Harold Pates describes programs he introduced at Kennedy-King College

Tape: 17 Story: 3 - Harold Pates talks about plans for a new facility for Kennedy-King College

Tape: 17 Story: 4 - Harold Pates describes life after his retirement from Kennedy-King College

Tape: 17 Story: 5 - Harold Pates talks about a controversy at Kennedy-King College

Tape: 17 Story: 6 - Harold Pates reflects upon his life

Tape: 18 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community, pt. 1

Tape: 18 Story: 2 - Harold Pates describes his hopes and concerns for the African American community, pt. 2

Tape: 18 Story: 3 - Harold Pates considers contemporary leaders in the African American community

Tape: 18 Story: 4 - Harold Pates reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 18 Story: 5 - Harold Pates reflects upon his family life

Tape: 18 Story: 6 - Harold Pates talks about the importance of rejecting materialism

Tape: 18 Story: 7 - Harold Pates reflects upon the role of music in his life

Tape: 19 Story: 1 - Harold Pates describes how he would like to be remembered

Tape: 19 Story: 2 - Harold Pates narrates his photographs

DASession

1$2

DATape

4$16

DAStory

5$4

DATitle
Harold Pates describes being a paperboy in Chicago's white neighborhoods
Harold Pates recalls being appointed president of Chicago's Kennedy-King College
Transcript
I remember the first time I ever got afraid of a policeman. I told you I was twelve years old, I was tall. I started delivering papers in the white neighborhood; the paper branch was in the alley between Cottage Grove [Avenue] and Drexel [Avenue]. We would, I would go from 46th [Street] and Evans [Avenue], down 47th Street into this alley. There was a drugstore on the corner of 47th and Cottage Grove, it was called Orenstein's [ph.], there was also a newspaper stand right in front of it. One day I had my paper bag, 4:30 in the morning, I'm going to the paper branch. I walk down 47th Street, a white woman was coming in front of me, she saw me and ran across to the south side of 47th Street. It was a policeman standing at the newsstand, and this is one of these pivotal experiences too. I saw this lady, I knew that this lady was afraid of me, it was very clear, she went across the street and walked to the newsstand. There was a policeman at the newsstand, and I saw her doing like this, the policeman took out after me running. And I saw that, I started to run but I didn't because you know how white policemen dealt with black people at that time was no myth. I mean it was very real, I started to run but I didn't, I continued to walk, and I tried to act like I didn't know that he was coming behind me. He came up to me, right when I got in front of the Vee show, he pulled his gun out, put it up to my head and he said, "What are you doing over here?" He said, "Turn around," where my back would be to him, he put the gun up against my head, and he said, "What are you doing over here?" And I went to turn around to talk to him; he said, "If you turn around, I'll blow your head off." So I just stood there, but I said, "You see this paper bag, I'm about to go to the paper branch," but it occurred to me I can't see this man's face. If he killed me nobody will know who he is, but I wouldn't have been able to tell it anyway, you know. So I'm standing there and he's--then he cocked the gun and I thought, Crowe [Larry Crowe], I really thought I was gone then, as a young boy you know. So finally I said, "See the paper bag, see the paper bag, I'm going right back here, the paper branch is right here." So then he, I guess he took the latch off the gun and then he turned around and went on away. And there was a florist shop and when I got back in the paper branch, I thought about that because I never told any of the fellows. See back at that time, there was only one white boy working in the branch, his name was Tommy North, N-O-R-T-H, and he lived in the white community. All the rest of us who delivered papers in the white community were black. My brother [Henry Pates] delivered the papers over in five hotels which are now, which have--many of them have been replaced by 50th on the Lake [50th on the Lake Motel, Chicago, Illinois]. There was also an [U.S.] Army barracks over there that was called the [U.S.] Fifth Army, now that's important. Because in the '60s [1960s], the Fifth Army came out in the '60s [1960s] after Martin Luther King [Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.] was killed and posted a .50 caliber machine gun right there on--this is what I saw with my eyes. Right there on Stony Island [Avenue] and 63rd Street, I guess they decided they were gonna shoot down 63rd Street. Because young people were setting 63rd Street on fire, you understand? And they didn't know what to do, so the Army--I came out that night to see, but I was, you know. This is not when I was young; this is when Martin Luther King got killed.$My presidency, I think I became president either in '86 [1986] or '87 [1987], I don't remember the exact date. And that was a very interesting experience, the presidency of Kennedy-King [Kennedy-King College, Chicago, Illinois] because my orientation for the presidency was to make sure that the pres- that the school reflected of the community and its values. And that it took the community to a higher level with respect to the offerings and with respect to, to--it operating as a resource for community development.$$Before I get, I just want to ask you did you, were you surprised when you became, when you were appointed, I mean did, you went after the job I'm sure. But, but were you, I mean how, how was the lay of the land? I mean were you assured of (simultaneous)--$$(Simultaneous) Well--$$--of being, of becoming the president at that time? Did you have, was it a done deal or what?$$Well you know no, it wasn't a done deal. It was very interesting because you see there was, within the college, the faculty council had decided on another person. I'm coming in out of the community with a community support, but also with the, with the support of the student government, who was both a part of the school and a part of the community at the same time. Well, my coming into the presidency, when the selection committee, it just so happens that members of the selection committee, the president of the selection committee--now this just so happens, the president, the chairman of the selection committee was a fellow named Mayo [ph.]; I can't remember his first name, simply because we were in third grade together in elementary school [Forrestville Elementary School, Chicago, Illinois], and when he discovered that they were searching and that they were looking at me as the president, he came to see me. He said, "[HistoryMaker] Harold Pates," he said, "do you realize that, do you realize how far we go back?" And I begin to talk, I said, "Look, I remember when we were in elementary school." We started talking about--. He says, "With your credentials," because everybody knew me in the City of Chicago [Illinois], you know, "you got to be the president over here." He says, "You got to be the president." Well, I don't know what went on in the selection committee, but the student government chairman came out one day and told me while I was in the counseling office he says, "Now Dr. Pates are you ready to be president?" I said, "Oh?" He said, "Are you ready?" I said, "Of course," and that's the way that happened.

Eddy Clearwater

Born Edward Harrington on January 10, 1935, in Macon, Mississippi, Eddy "The Chief" Clearwater has become one of blues music's most enduring and original performers. As a child, Clearwater worked on the family farm and spent many hours listening to music ranging from country to gospel to the blues. While still in his teens, the family moved to Birmingham, Alabama, where Clearwater first learned to play the guitar and began backing various gospel groups in the area.

At the bidding of his uncle Houston, Clearwater traveled north to Chicago and the blossoming blues scene in September of 1950. Working by day, Clearwater spent his evenings in blues clubs, listening to such legends as Muddy Waters and Sunnyland Slim. By 1953, Clearwater was performing in clubs in Chicago, including the Happy Hope Lounge and Mel's Hideaway. In 1958, Clearwater cut his first single, and the following year he made his television debut on Bandstand Matinee. His star quickly rose, and he continued to record and perform throughout the 1960s and 1970s, fulfilling his childhood dream of being able to play guitar full-time. In the mid-1970s, Clearwater embarked on his first European tour, traveling with fellow blues men Buddy Guy, Junior Wells and Jimmy Johnson. In 1987, Clearwater was picked by the U.S. government to do a diplomatic tour of performances in Africa.

Since then, Clearwater has continued to tour, returning to Europe on several occasions, as well as performances in South America and throughout the United States. He also continues to record and self-produce albums on his record label, Clear Tone. Throughout the course of his career, Clearwater has performed with many of the legends of blues, and he continues to break new ground with his own sounds.

Clearwater passed away on June 1, 2018.

Accession Number

A2004.157

Sex

Male

Interview Date

9/2/2004

Last Name

Clearwater

Maker Category
Occupation
Organizations
Schools

McLeod School

A.H. Parker High School

First Name

Eddy

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

CLE03

Favorite Season

Fall

State

Mississippi

Favorite Vacation Destination

Hawaii

Favorite Quote

Who Loves You, Baby?

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

1/10/1935

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Ribs, Catfish

Death Date

6/1/2018

Short Description

Blues musician Eddy Clearwater (1935 - 2018 ) began performing in Chicago in 1953, and toured around the world with many blues legends. Clearwater recorded and produced his own records on his record label, Clear Tone.

Favorite Color

Red

DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Eddy Clearwater interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Eddy Clearwater lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Eddy Clearwater recalls his mother's background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Eddy Clearwater remembers his father

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Eddy Clearwater lists the family members who raised him

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Eddy Clearwater shares memories of growing up in Mississippi

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Eddy Clearwater talks about Robert Johnson

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Eddy Clearwater recounts his early love of music

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Eddy Clearwater discusses the close relationship of gospel and blues music

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Eddy Clearwater recalls his elementary school

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Eddy Clearwater describes his childhood family life

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Eddy Clearwater remembers his introduction to music

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Eddy Clearwater recounts his transition from Alabama to Chicago

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Eddy Clearwater recalls his introduction to the Chicago blues scene

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Eddy Clearwater discusses the blues' roots in segregated Mississippi

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Eddy Clearwater remembers his first gigs, and starting to sing

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Eddy Clearwater discusses finding his own style, writing songs, and recording albums

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Eddy Clearwater recalls 63rd Street at the height of the Chicago blues and jazz scene

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Eddy Clearwater recalls the reception of his first record

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Eddy Clearwater remembers his live performances

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Eddy Clearwater discusses the financial risks of the music industry

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Eddy Clearwater recounts becoming a successful musician

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Eddy Clearwater recalls the 1960s British music scene

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Eddy Clearwater laments the lack of interest in the blues in the black community

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Eddy Clearwater discusses efforts to preserve the blues

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Eddy Clearwater shares his favorite songs

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Eddy Clearwater expresses his hopes for the future of the blues and the black community

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Eddy Clearwater discusses the connections between American blues and African music

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Eddy Clearwater reflects on his life and career

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Eddy Clearwater recalls opening his own blues club

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Eddy Clearwater considers his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Eddy Clearwater talks about B.B. King

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Eddy Clearwater reflects on his life and career

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Eddy Clearwater shares a story about B.B. King

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Eddy Clearwater dicusses mentoring young musicians

Jacquelyne D. Grimshaw

Activist and public policy advocate Jacquelyne D. Grimshaw was born in Macon, Georgia, on May 15, 1942, to James Lane and Lovia Lane-Thorton. She graduated from Loretto Academy Catholic High School in Chicago in 1960 and earned a B.S. in biology from Marquette University in 1965. In 1967, Grimshaw received an education certificate from Chicago Teachers College.

After early work in the media industry, Grimshaw's career path turned to public policy when she joined the Illinois Department of Labor and Personnel. She was then employed by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services as a program officer for the Indiana Work Incentive Program and Head Start.

Grimshaw worked for the campaign of Chicago Mayor Harold Washington and, in 1984, she joined the Mayor's Office of Intergovernmental Affairs. In 1986, Washington named her his top legislative aide. There she played a critical role in pushing forth the mayor's legislative agenda. After Washington's untimely death, Grimshaw went on to serve as deputy city treasurer for economic development. In 1992, she joined the Center for Neighborhood Technology as its vice president of policy, transportation and community development.

Over the years, Grimshaw has had numerous civic and professional affiliations, including membership in the Surface Transportation Policy Project, the Transportation Research Board's committees on Environmental Justice and Women's Issues in Transportation, the American Public Transport Association, Congress for New Urbanism, Smart Grown America, Renew America/Renew the Earth, and the Center for Clean Air Policy.

She married William J. Grimshaw in 1964. They have two children, Kimberly D. Grimshaw-Bolton and Christopher M. Grimshaw.

Accession Number

A2003.001

Sex

Female

Interview Date

1/10/2003 |and| 2/7/2003 |and| 8/19/2005

Last Name

Grimshaw

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

Dolores Lane

Organizations
Schools

Loretto Academy Catholic High School

Speakers Bureau

Yes

First Name

Jacquelyne "Jacky"

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

GRI02

Speakers Bureau Honorarium

Depends on audience - Negotiable

Favorite Season

Spring

Speaker Bureau Notes

Would only be able to participate if we need her specifically for planned programming.

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Pompano Beach, Florida

Favorite Quote

Unbelievable.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Illinois

Birth Date

5/15/1942

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Chicago

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Turkey

Short Description

Nonprofit chief executive Jacquelyne D. Grimshaw (1942 - ) was a relentless behind the scenes organizer for Harold Washington's Mayoral campaigns

Employment

Illinois Department of Labor and Personnel

Indiana Work Incentive Program

Chicago Office of Intergovernmental Affairs

City of Chicago

Center for Neighborhood Technology

Favorite Color

Blue

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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Jacquelyne Grimshaw's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw lists her favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her family background

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her parents

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes how her parents met and moved to Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the sights, sounds, and smells of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the neighborhood at 45th and Grand Avenue in Chicago, ILlinois

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about her childhood friends and activities

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls attending shows at the Regal Theater as a child

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw shares her memories of school

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw remembers her favorite teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about her interest in science and medicine

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her decision to attend Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the Civil Rights Movement

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls the assassination of President John F. Kennedy

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the issue of race at Marquette University in the 1960s

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about taking courses at Loyola University in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her work at the U.S. Postal Service

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about working in the laboratory at Michael Reese Hospital

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes meeting her husband

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about becoming a fourth grade teacher at Woodson North Elementary School

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes teaching fourth grade at Woodson North Elementary School

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about planning a field trip to Canada for her fifth grade students

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the field trip to Canada

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes traveling to Europe in 1967

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about being a research assistant at the University of Chicago

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes teaching middle school

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about becoming involved with community organizing, pt. 1

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about becoming involved with community organizing, pt. 2

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about Al Raby and the Civil Rights Movement in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King's visit to Chicago in 1966

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Al Raby's community involvement

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about attending the Democratic National Convention in 1972, pt. 1

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about attending the Democratic National Convention in 1972, pt. 2

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about present day national political conventions

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls the Democratic National Convention in 1984

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes being elected to the Model Cities Council in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes witnessing the Chicago political machine firsthand on election day

Tape: 4 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes becoming precinct captain

Tape: 4 Story: 10 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about her involvement with the Independent Voters of Illinois [IVI]

Tape: 4 Story: 11 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls how IVI and IPO joined forces in the 1970s

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about community organizer, Saul Alinsky

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes working with the Midwest Academy

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw remembers meeting political figures in her community as a child

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about Harold Washington's early political career

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the political aftermath of Mayor Richard J. Daley's death in 1976

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls Harold Washington's campaign for Chicago mayor in 1977

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Chicago politics and the black community in the late 1970s and early 1980s

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about what led to Harold Washington's 1983 mayoral campaign

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Harold Washington's 1983 mayoral campaign

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the 1983 election day for Mayor Harold Washington

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about targeting voters for Harold Washington's 1983 mayoral campaign

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about Harold Washington's voter registration strategy

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the key turning points in Harold Washington's 1983 mayoral campaign, pt.1

Tape: 6 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the key turning points in Harold Washington's 1983 mayoral campaign, pt.2

Tape: 6 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Harold Washington's 1983 mayoral victory

Tape: 6 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls the media reaction to Harold Washington's election as Mayor of Chicago in 1983

Tape: 6 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recounts how her son lit the Christmas tree with Harold Washington

Tape: 6 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her roles in the Mayor Harold Washington's administration

Tape: 7 Story: 1 - Slating of Jacquelyne Grimshaw's interview

Tape: 7 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Harold Washington's battle with Ronald Reagan to restore revenue sharing

Tape: 7 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the redistricting fight in Chicago in the mid-1980s

Tape: 7 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her optimism prior to Mayor Harold Washington's 1987 reelection campaign

Tape: 7 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Harold Washington's 1987 political opponents, Tom Hynes and Jane Byrne

Tape: 7 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the North Side Irish vs. South Side Irish split

Tape: 7 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Chicago City Councilman Ed Vrdolyak

Tape: 7 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Chicago City Councilman Ed Burke

Tape: 7 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Harold Washington's 1987 reelection campaign

Tape: 7 Story: 10 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her role in Harold Washington's 1987 reelection campaign

Tape: 8 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about how her career affected her family adversely

Tape: 8 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about missing international trips due to work

Tape: 8 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes how she prioritizes her family life now

Tape: 8 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about her love of football

Tape: 8 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Mayor Harold Washington's second term

Tape: 8 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the role of community organizations in Harold Washington's administration

Tape: 8 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the Harold Washington Library

Tape: 8 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the weeks leading up to Harold Washington's death

Tape: 9 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes learning of Harold Washington's death

Tape: 9 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the political aftermath of Mayor Harold Washington's death

Tape: 9 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the succession battle following Mayor Harold Washington's death

Tape: 9 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about Mayor Harold Washington lying in state

Tape: 9 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Mayor Harold Washington's coalition in City Council

Tape: 9 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the breakdown of Mayor Harold Washington's coalition in City Council

Tape: 9 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the battle between Eugene Sawyer and Timothy Evans to become interim mayor

Tape: 9 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the planning of Mayor Harold Washington's funeral

Tape: 10 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Harold Washington's funeral

Tape: 10 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about Harold Washington's connection to people

Tape: 10 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Timothy Evan's rally at UIC Pavilion

Tape: 10 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the City Council meeting to select an interim mayor, pt. 1

Tape: 10 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the City Council meeting to select an interim mayor, pt. 2

Tape: 10 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about her reaction to Eugene Sawyer's selection as interim mayor

Tape: 10 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her work the year following Harold Washington's death

Tape: 10 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes accepting a job to work with Miriam Santos

Tape: 11 Story: 1 - Slating of Jacquelyne Grimshaw's interview

Tape: 11 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes becoming Deputy Treasurer for Economic Development for Chicago in 1991

Tape: 11 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes working at the City of Chicago's Treasurer's office

Tape: 11 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Miriam Santos' personality

Tape: 11 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her work conflicts with Miriam Santos

Tape: 11 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about leaving her job at the City of Chicago's Treasurer's office

Tape: 11 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes how Christian Action Ministries addressed neighborhood problems on the West Side of Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 11 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes how Christian Action Ministries addressed the problem of vitamin deficiency in Chicago, Illinois

Tape: 11 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her work at the Center for Neighborhood Technology

Tape: 12 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes real time pricing for electricity and car sharing

Tape: 12 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes a pilot broadband internet program

Tape: 12 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes programs related to transportation policies

Tape: 12 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the University Pass, a CTA program for college students

Tape: 12 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw recalls Chicago's abandoned housing policy under Harold Washington's administration

Tape: 12 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the Neighborhood Early Warning System

Tape: 12 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw contrasts government versus non-profit work

Tape: 12 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the importance of the executive in office

Tape: 12 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw shares her view on Chicago's government corruption

Tape: 13 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the corruption of Mayor Richard M. Daley administration, pt. 1

Tape: 13 Story: 2 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes the corruption of Mayor Richard M. Daley's administration, pt. 2

Tape: 13 Story: 3 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes her hopes and concerns for the black community

Tape: 13 Story: 4 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw reflects upon what she would have done differently in her life

Tape: 13 Story: 5 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw reflects upon her legacy

Tape: 13 Story: 6 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about her family

Tape: 13 Story: 7 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about Barack Obama

Tape: 13 Story: 8 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about the 2004 Presidential Election

Tape: 13 Story: 9 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes how she would like to be remembered

Tape: 13 Story: 10 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw talks about whether she will write a book

Tape: 14 Story: 1 - Jacquelyne Grimshaw narrates her photographs

DASession

1$2

DATape

5$8

DAStory

7$5

DATitle
Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Chicago politics and the black community in the late 1970s and early 1980s
Jacquelyne Grimshaw describes Mayor Harold Washington's second term
Transcript
So, you know, we didn't win, but we knew, we had a base, and I think they knew we had a base, so 'cause what did they do? They put up--you know, there was the machine, the machine blacks, Jim Taylor, you know, was, was one of those loyal genuflectors to the machine. So the thing was challenging Harold [Washington] for his General Assembly seat. And you know, they put another guy named Washington. This whole thing was just saw with the Jackson and the Shaw brothers, well, you know, this was, this was played against Harold. There was another Washington in the race, and they put two or three other ringers in the race. But the one that Jim Taylor was really pushing for is this guy named Clarence Barry, you know, that they were gonna try and take Harold out. Well, you know, we slapped their faces, and Harold won reelection. So, you know, by the time we got to the '83' [1983], which, again, you know the affront. You know, we, we, we get Michael Bilandic, who's eventually elected mayor after [Richard J.] Daley dies. The black community had been dissed. He got his comeuppance when he got a blizzard he didn't know how to deal with, and he lied to the people. Jane Byrne took advantage of that, ran for mayor. You know, black folks got behind her because she was not the machine, and you know, she was not Bilandic, and elected her. I mean blacks elected Jane Byrne. And what did Jane do? She get in the office and she dissed the black community through the appointments to the, the Chicago Housing Authority Board and appointments to the school board.$$Yes, those are two critical ones.$$Absolutely, absolutely, and so--$$It was Charles Swibel and the--$$With the, with the Chicago Housing Authority and you know, the, the--$$The Bogans--$$The Bogan broads (laughter), as they got to be called, went into the board, board of education. You know, I guess, you know, we, we had our slogans. But, but it, it, it enraged, you know, the community. I mean so, you know, you had, you know, this, this, this tension that was out there, you know, as I say building up from the [Martin Luther] King thing and more and more awareness and more realization that you know, why are we, you know, being stepped on? You know, we're kind of like the backbone of this community, and we're getting nothing but the dregs. And so, you know, the energy after--you know, against Bilandic and for Jane, and then after Jane, you know, wiped us out, you know, with the, with those two I mean really institutions that were important to the black community, you know, the community organizing. And [HM Lutrelle] Lu Palmer at that point had his radio show, and you know, he, he was in--increasing the awareness all the time. And you know, the drumbeat, drumbeat started.$But tell me about the, the Harold, Harold Washington's second term, and what things were you able to accomplish, and what role did you play in those things and that, that (simultaneous)--$$Well, you know, one of--you know, the brief second term. One of the big things that was going on at that point in time was CHA [Chicago Housing Authority]. And again, we still had this [President] Ronald Reagan in the, in the White House and his--Pierce, Sam Pierce was the secretary of HUD [Department of Housing and Urban Development], and this was black guy. But for some reason, you know, he was intent upon taking control of CHA away from the city and nationalize it. And so, you know, we had to fight him off to keep control of the Chicago Housing Authority, you know, with the city and not with the feds. So that was one of the big things. The other big this is that, you know, we still had this education issue going on. And so Harold had decided that what we needed to do was to get more parental involvement in the school system, that, you know, the bureaucrats who were really running the system, and they were running it for the benefit of the bureaucracy and not for the benefit of the children. And so the one way to change that was to get more parents involved. And so we had organized this kind of community event of, of getting, you know, parents and community folks interested in education and involved in kind of a parent summit. I think that maybe what we called it the Parent Summit or something like that. And so, you know, we were going in a direction of laying the basis for reforming the public school system by having these series of events. And we were in the midst of that when, when he died. But it led to, you know, the reforms that came out of Springfield that now are the local school councils and all the rest of that. But you know, it was part of the momentum that he started, you know, that last year of his life.$$Okay, so you see that as a major, as the major I guess contribution of the last part of--I mean his '87' [1987]--(unclear)--$$Yeah. I mean as really, you know, reforming the public school system and you know, getting it refocused on the children and not on the bureaucrats and not on the staff and all the rest of that, but you know, instructional improvements. And so you know what--you know, the legislation--the first piece of the legislation that created these public school improvement councils or something like that actually passed before he, he, he died, but it was like the first step. And then we--you know, the General Assembly went back a year later and created what finally became, you know, our current structure. But it was kind of like a two-step process.

Dr. Henry L. Cook

Highly regarded as a businessman and community leader, dentist Dr. Henry Lee Cook, Sr. was born on September 7, 1939 in Macon, Georgia. He earned a B. S. degree in Biology from Tuskegee University in 1962.

Cook served in the United States Air Force as a First Lieutenant from 1962 to 1965. He was married, in 1964, to the former Mamie Richmond and they have been married for the past 38 years. In 1965, Cook traveled to Nashville, Tennessee and earned a D. D. S. from Meharry Medical College in 1969. Setting up private practice as a dentist in Columbus, Georgia, Cook practiced dentistry successfully for 32 years. In 1976, he built the Martin Luther King, Jr. Shopping Center in Columbus' black community, which included an ultra-modern dental office.

Throughout his career, Cook has been involved in a variety of professional and civic organizations. His affiliations include: the American College of Dentistry, the Pierre Fauchard Academy, the National Dental Association, the Georgia Dental Association, the Western District Dental Society, and the State Health Strategies Council. He is the former chairman of the board of the Columbus Technical Foundation, the Columbus Technical Institute and the A. J. McClung Y. M. C. A. Cook is currently chairman of the Minority Assistance Corporation, the Columbus Business Development Center and the Supervisory Board of Personal Review. Among his many awards, Cook is the recipient of the Georgia Dental Society's highest honor, the Dr. J. E. Carter Award and the Civil Rights Award from the National Dental Association. Both of his children, Henry and Cathy are dentists.

Accession Number

A2002.015

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/16/2002

Last Name

Cook

Maker Category
Marital Status

Married

Middle Name

L.

Schools

Hazel Street Elementary School

Byron Elementary School

Fort Valley High School

Tuskegee University

Meharry Medical College

First Name

Henry

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

COO02

Favorite Season

Summer

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Las Vegas, Nevada

Favorite Quote

To whom much is given, much is required.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

9/7/1939

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Atlanta

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Chicken, Yams (Candied)

Short Description

Civil rights activist and dentist Dr. Henry L. Cook (1939 - ) was the former President of Georgia Dental Association and the recipient of the Georgia Dental Society's highest honor, the Dr. J. E. Carter Award. Dr. Cook was also awarded the Civil Rights Award from the National Dental Association.

Employment

United States Air Force

Favorite Color

Blue

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Henry Cook's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Henry Cook lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Henry Cook talks about his family's history

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Henry Cook shares memories of his parents

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Henry Cook describes in his grandparents' home

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Henry Cook describes the teacher, Elizabeth Richmond, who became his adopted mother

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Henry Cook describes his childhood personality and activities

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Henry Cook talks about moving away from home in order to attend high school in Fort Valley, Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Henry Cook talks about his high school experiences and his siblings' lack of educational opportunity

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Henry Cook describes the support he received to attend Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Henry Cook describes the sights, smells, and sounds of his childhood

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Henry Cook describes his love of reading as a child

Tape: 1 Story: 13 - Henry Cook talks about his decision to major in engineering at Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Henry Cook talks about HistoryMaker Robert Church, a father figure in his life

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Henry Cook describes his desire to please authority figures and an unforgettable lesson about lying

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Henry Cook reflects upon his high school experiences

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Henry Cook talks about his decision to major in biology at Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Henry Cook describes his experience at Tuskegee Institute

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Henry Cook talks about the gerrymandering in Tuskegee, Alabama, and his experience of racial discrimination

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Henry Cook describes how the ROTC inspired him to join the U.S. Air Force

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Henry Cook talks about his service in the U.S. Air Force and why he left the military

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Henry Cook describes his grandparents' deaths

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Henry Cook talks about his decision to attend Meharry Medical College

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Henry Cook talks about his first year at Meharry Medical College

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Henry Cook talks about his choice of dentistry and his involvement in professional dental organizations

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Henry Cook describes how he got his start practicing dentistry in Columbus, Georgia

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Henry Cook talks about setting up his dental practice and building his own office

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Henry Cook explains why medicine and law are intimidating fields for African American youth

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Henry Cook talks about the importance of mentorship to academic success

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Henry Cook talks about his children and how he made sure they saw examples of successful black and female professionals

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Henry Cook describes changes in healthcare access for African Americans and his work with indigent patients

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Henry Cook talks about his wife's role in building his dental office

Tape: 3 Story: 10 - Henry Cook talks about impact of managed care on physicians and dentists

Tape: 3 Story: 11 - Henry Cook talks about Meharry Medical College, Howard University, and Morehouse School of Medicine, important educators of African American medical providers

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Henry Cook talks about Meharry Medical College's contributions to dentistry

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Henry Cook describes how he gives back to his family and his community

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Henry Cook talks about his grandmother, Dora Jackson

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Henry Cook reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Henry Cook narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

3$3

DAStory

3$4

DATitle
Henry Cook describes how he got his start practicing dentistry in Columbus, Georgia
Henry Cook talks about setting up his dental practice and building his own office
Transcript
So how does the practice bring you back to Columbus, Georgia?$$I was--had graduated, doing my internship with a desire to move to Atlanta [Georgia], which was my lifelong goal, just live in Atlanta, the big city, bright lights. You know everything happens in Atlanta. The girls are prettier in Atlanta they told me (laughter). Went to Atlanta to make an assessment to find out, you know, my--if the, the building that I was gonna lease would kind of blew me out in terms of what it would cost me. I made an assessment of my equipment that I needed. It just blew my mind again. I needed a house. The smallest house possible was a hundred--I mean we're talking about just a four box--four-room box--broke, no money. I said let me think about this. At the same time, there was a dentist in Columbus who passed. His name was Dr. Clifton Williams. And it just so happened that his wife was living with my adopted mom [Elizabeth Richmond] in Fort Valley [Georgia] working on her master's degree at Fort Valley State College. They called me and apprised me of the fact that Dr. Williams had passed and asked me would I be interested in seeing the practice before they mentioned it to anybody else. I wasn't excited about that, because I wanted to go to Atlanta. But my mom and my, my wife [Mamie Cook nee Richmond] said I think you ought to go down and take a look at it, which I did. And I came down here at a, a heapings of records--patient records, which was the biggest thing in a practice. He was well liked, had good people skill. He was in a building that had a history of healthcare. And on the corner of--"healthcare corner" we called it (laughter), which is not far from here, by the way; it's just a few blocks from here. After giving a lot of thought and then after reflecting on what it would cost me to get started in Atlanta, in a city would--that would take me years to even be known because of the numbers alone, I decided Columbus is not a bad idea. And I can always move to Atlanta if I want to. That was thirty-two years ago. And the, the fun of that is many times I called a colleague in Atlanta and said let's have a cocktail together at the bar in Atlanta. He said where are you, Henry? I said in ca--I'm in Columbus. He said well, well, when you get to Atlanta, call--I said no, no, you start now, and I'll start now. And I would always beat him to the bar, because the traffic's so bad in Atlanta. That was my private joke with him. And they never believed--you were not in Columbus. Yes, I was--hour 20 minutes I'm in Atlanta; hour and a half they were stuck in traffic (laughter).$So what did you go about to make the practice even grow more from the one you inherited? What--$$The first thing I did I assumed a--upstairs over a drugstore that was something like five or six rooms. There were three separate businesses up there, believe it or not. At one time a physician was upstairs, a, a CPA bookkeeper was upstairs, and a dentist was upstairs. And that was nothing, not enough space for me. I couldn't do anything with, with two-room dental practice. So I got the entire upstairs renovated, made it look, you know, appealing for what I thought, and I started there; did my own marketing. There was no, no mass media, just got out and just met folk; went to the churches. After work I would just go in the neighborhood and just meet people. And I just liked doing that anyway. That was just natural for me. That was a natural--and over a short period of time, I guess half of Columbus [Georgia] knew I was in town. The, the--a, a little boy is here (laughter). And of course the best one they said: "He's little and young, but he's good." And that one I could relate to. So it started there. And I always had business cards wherever I went. I thought about it like this, I can buy a thousand business cards for ten dollars. And if one patient come in I've paid for that and the next six orders, so I gave business cards everywhere.$$So how did the black community receive you--(simultaneous)--$$Quite well, quite well. I think they were impressed the way I came and took the entire upstairs and just renovated the entire thing, (unclear) in business, which has never happened before. And the word come out--he had the whole upstairs, which it was not really much. But given, you know, the history of three and sometimes four businesses, one in each room, you know, up there prior to that, I guess that kind of like got people attention.$$And the white community?$$Didn't make any impact on them at the time. But what I did, I went out to meet all of that, white guys, went to meet all of 'em. On my--on Thursday was my day off. I was in, in the dental office every Thursday, sometimes three and four. And it was, it was--I had motives, find out how do you do this, or what do you use for that, which piece of equipment is good, which is bad, you know. And I gleaned a whole lot of information from my colleagues, particularly the white ones who were buying new stuff. And, and my intentions after I was here for a short period was to build a building in five years. Nobody knew that but me and my, my family, but everything I did as of, I guess, a few months after I was--I, I--after I was here was to get around that. So I started gathering information on the how-to's, and what cost this, and what waste--don't waste your money on that. And I got good response, basically because I like people. And by and large, I think don't have a problem getting along with people at all, because I don't wait for them, you know, to come to me. I just get up and go.$$And your building?$$Five years I, I went into the new building, almost to the day. Built a building out on--it was Brookhaven [Georgia] at the time. We got the name changed to Martin Luther King Boulevard right in front of the WMCA, which is a black branch, very well located, very well traveled street; pulled some strings got a bus stop right outside the door (laughter).

Newton Collier

Newton Collier was born on July 23, 1945 in Macon, Georgia. His parents, Lucile Birdsong and Newton Collier, led a group called the Sweethearts of Rhythm. With his parents' example to guide him, Collier began playing piano at age six and the trumpet at ten. He started playing professionally with the Pinetoppers, the original band backing Otis Redding. Soon after graduating from Ballard Hudson High School in 1963, he joined Sam and Dave, who are best known for their 1967 Grammy award-winning song "Soul Man."

Sam and Dave's band broke up in 1970 after an international tour. The horn section formed a new band called LTD and moved to Boston. Collier worked on a freelance basis and married his sweetheart, Beverly Nelson. Their daughter, Charity, was born in 1973. Then, one night in 1976, tragedy struck. Collier was going home from an engagement when an unknown assailant shot him in the face. After three years of reconstructive surgery and recovery, Collier could speak well enough to be understood-but he could not withstand the pressure required to play the trumpet or trombone.

After the accident, Collier helped publish Progressive Platter Music Review. Having studied electronics at Boston's Wentworth Institute, he found work as an electronic technician-first at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology from 1970 to 1976, then at Wells Fargo from 1976 to 1982. From 1979 to 1988, he worked in the fledgling computer industry at Honeywell Computers. In 1984, Collier learned of an instrument designed by John Steiner at M.I.T. called the E.V.I., Electronic Valve Instrument. This windblown synthesizer, sounding like a trumpet but requiring far less air, enabled Collier to play in Boston-area cafes and small clubs.

In 1988, Collier moved back to Macon and opened Collier's Records and Tapes, specializing in rare and collectible albums. Unfortunately, despite the store's magnificent collection, it did not turn a profit and closed in 1997. Collier now makes a living as a taxicab driver.

Bibliography:
Who's Who in Black Music, 1984. p. 128.

Accession Number

A2002.014

Sex

Male

Interview Date

3/18/2002

Last Name

Collier

Maker Category
Organizations
Schools

New Ballard Hudson Middle School

Ingram/Pye Elementary School

Miller Fine Arts Magnet Middle School

First Name

Newton

Birth City, State, Country

Macon

HM ID

COL04

Favorite Season

All Seasons

Sponsor

Knight Foundation

State

Georgia

Favorite Vacation Destination

Memphis, Tennessee

Favorite Quote

I Take What I Want, And I'm A Bad Boy. I Go Get It.

Bio Photo
Speakers Bureau Region State

Georgia

Birth Date

7/23/1945

Birth Place Term
Speakers Bureau Region City

Macon

Country

United States

Favorite Food

Grits

Short Description

R & B trumpet player and R & B trombone player Newton Collier (1945 - ) was a former member of Sam and Dave, best known for their song, "Soul Man." After a critical gunshot wound in the face, Collier was no longer able to play traditional instruments, but transitioned to a windblown synthesizer and later opened Collier's Records and Tapes.

Employment

Sam & Dave

Delete

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

Wells Fargo

Honeywell, Inc.

Collier's Records and Tapes

Main Sponsor
Favorite Color

Blue, Green

Timing Pairs
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DAStories

Tape: 1 Story: 1 - Slating of Newton Collier's interview

Tape: 1 Story: 2 - Newton Collier lists his favorites

Tape: 1 Story: 3 - Newton Collier describes his parents' backgrounds

Tape: 1 Story: 4 - Newton Collier talks about his childhood interest in music

Tape: 1 Story: 5 - Newton Collier describes his grandmothers

Tape: 1 Story: 6 - Newton Collier describes his relationship with his mother

Tape: 1 Story: 7 - Newton Collier talks about his step-father and his siblings

Tape: 1 Story: 8 - Newton Collier describes growing up in Macon, Georgia

Tape: 1 Story: 9 - Newton Collier describes having spinal meningitis as a small child

Tape: 1 Story: 10 - Newton Collier describes his childhood personality

Tape: 1 Story: 11 - Newton Collier talks about being introduced to music as a child

Tape: 1 Story: 12 - Newton Collier recalls his favorite teachers

Tape: 2 Story: 1 - Newton Collier remembers how spinal meningitis affected his childhood

Tape: 2 Story: 2 - Newton Collier talks about his music mentor, Robert Scott

Tape: 2 Story: 3 - Newton Collier describes learning to play the trumpet

Tape: 2 Story: 4 - Newton Collier recalls playing his first solo at the Two Spot Club as a teenager

Tape: 2 Story: 5 - Newton Collier talks about music mentor and bandleader Gladys Williams

Tape: 2 Story: 6 - Newton Collier describes the sights, sounds, and smells of Macon, Georgia

Tape: 2 Story: 7 - Newton Collier recalls meeting Sammy Davis, Jr.

Tape: 2 Story: 8 - Newton Collier shares his earliest memories of Otis Redding

Tape: 2 Story: 9 - Newton Collier talks about deciding to tour with Otis Redding

Tape: 2 Story: 10 - Newton Collier recalls joining Leroy Lloyd and the Swinging Dukes

Tape: 2 Story: 11 - Newton Collier remembers meeting Maceo Parker

Tape: 2 Story: 12 - Newton Collier talks about club owner, Clint Brantley, and his acts James Brown and Little Richard

Tape: 3 Story: 1 - Newton Collier recalls avoiding trouble while spending time at Clint Brantley's club

Tape: 3 Story: 2 - Newton Collier talks about how shrewdly Clint Brantley handled his club promotion business, pt.1

Tape: 3 Story: 3 - Newton Collier talks about how shrewdly Clint Brantley handled his club promotion business, pt.2

Tape: 3 Story: 4 - Newton Collier talks about playing trumpet for Sam and Dave and the emergence of Stax records

Tape: 3 Story: 5 - Newton Collier describes life on tour with Sam and Dave in the volatile 1960s

Tape: 3 Story: 6 - Newton Collier talks about producing and arranging songs for Sam and Dave

Tape: 3 Story: 7 - Newton Collier recalls learning about Otis Redding's death

Tape: 3 Story: 8 - Newton Collier describes the impact of Otis Redding's death on him

Tape: 3 Story: 9 - Newton Collier talks about moving to Boston, Massachusetts in 1969 and getting married

Tape: 4 Story: 1 - Newton Collier shares memories of the Doo Wop musicians in his neighborhood

Tape: 4 Story: 2 - Newton Collier talks about his relationship with Otis Redding

Tape: 4 Story: 3 - Newton Collier talks about returning to the music business

Tape: 4 Story: 4 - Newton Collier talks about forming the band LTD featuring Jeffrey Osborne

Tape: 4 Story: 5 - Newton Collier talks about promoting the band LTD

Tape: 4 Story: 6 - Newton Collier talks about being hired at Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Tape: 4 Story: 7 - Newton Collier describes working at MIT and NASA

Tape: 4 Story: 8 - Newton Collier describes astronaut Ronald McNair

Tape: 5 Story: 1 - Newton Collier describes being shot in 1976

Tape: 5 Story: 2 - Newton Collier talks about his recovery from a facial gunshot wound

Tape: 5 Story: 3 - Newton Collier talks about opening his record store Collier's Corner

Tape: 5 Story: 4 - Newton Collier talks about Ronald McNair's death in 1986

Tape: 5 Story: 5 - Newton Collier talks about his mother's later years and death

Tape: 5 Story: 6 - Newton Collier talks about his father's death

Tape: 5 Story: 7 - Newton Collier describes discovering his Native American ancestry

Tape: 5 Story: 8 - Newton Collier talks about becoming part of the Georgia Music Hall of Fame

Tape: 5 Story: 9 - Newton Collier talks about the role of music for African American young people

Tape: 5 Story: 10 - Newton Collier reflects upon his legacy

Tape: 5 Story: 11 - Newton Collier describes the chittlin circuit

Tape: 6 Story: 1 - Newton Collier talks about discrimination while touring in the South

Tape: 6 Story: 2 - Newton Collier contrasts various musical styles and describes how he learned to write charts

Tape: 6 Story: 3 - Newton Collier narrates his photographs

DASession

1$1

DATape

2$4

DAStory

4$1

DATitle
Newton Collier recalls playing his first solo at the Two Spot Club as a teenager
Newton Collier shares memories of the Doo Wop musicians in his neighborhood
Transcript
And I was learning the way the guys in the band were so that became a--I don't remember exactly when, but there came a time where I started playing in Clint's band. Clint [Brantley] told me, go on up there and play. So I just went on up there--'cause, you know, for a long time, I'd take my horn and never got a chance to use it. Hey, man, it's getting to be embarrassing. So I just, I wouldn't take my horn a lot of times because, you know, I wasn't gon' play, just sit there and listen. So I eventually got a chance to play. And it was with [Sammy] Coleman. I was standing next to him playing and Shang-A-Lang was another guy that was--his name is Harold Smith. He had played with Little Richard and Otis [Redding] and a lot of the bands in the old days. So they let me. I don't know whether I goofed up or not 'cause I mentally focused out. I remember the first solo that they had--it was "Watermelon Man", and Shane walked over and said, "You gotta take the solo after the next four bars." Out the clear blue sky, he just told me that. And I said, "solo". I think I might have missed two notes coming down 'cause I was trying to say "uh-oh" (laughter), what I'm gonna do? (Laughter). And the first solo I ever took, it always sticks in my mind. If Coleman hadn't told me, he said, "Play half tones until you feel the key and then play 8th and 16 notes when you feel the other part." So I think the song was going in four-four time, and I was in some elongated time. It sounded like a drone going on. And Mr. Shane looked at me and saw the smile and Coleman was just--they just burst out and started laughing. And, well, that--I think that's the beginning of the time I really learned how to sweat on stage. I was sweating. I sweated that whole solo out. But I got through. And I got through with the song, and Shane said, "Well, you gon' take the next solo. Coleman wanna help you at home (unclear). I looked at him (laughter), I looked, "What you mean, going home? You gon' leave me--in my mind, I said, you gon' leave me out here to swim now?" (Laughter) But that's what they did. They left me out there. Coleman went over to the bar, and here I'm standing up there. And in reality, I just wanted to just walk on behind him, but I said, nah, let me stay here. And I stayed there, and that's when I found out I was ready.$$What was the name of the club?$$It's called the "Two Spot."$Being around the Doo Wop guys and, well, and him singing solo too. He worked with the Oscar Mack, James Duncan, Percy Wilts (ph.) and different guys like that around locally. They were all like singing together. It's another guy named Bill Jones who taught Otis [Redding] how to sing that style, and the way I fit in was I used to come up and hang out with Bill Jones' brother. And now, I'm sort of, I'm sort of like a little kid hanging around. I was a insider that way. And I guess my mother and my aunt felt okay 'cause it was Otis [Redding], and Otis' dad was a preacher, and Otis wasn't doing nothing, they thought (laughter). They didn't know, because he--that secret was kept very well. And so I got a chance to be a insider and to be an outsider at the same time. So when they started going to the Douglas and things, I would tag along, and Johnny Jenkins who lived indirectly across the street from my aunt, on the same street, about four houses down and across the street. And Otis and them would come down and rehearse with Johnny and them. Ray Satellite Papa Brown, who was one of the legendary D.J.'s, just coincidentally lived further on down the street. He was about eight houses from where we lived, on the same side. So I could walk straight down to his house, but I knew not to go across--I wasn't allowed over there 'cause they were drinking liquor over there. So I stayed on my side and went on down. And they would see me. I would stand out there, and a couple of times I was actually taking my horn and walked all the way down to the branch. And they'll be playing music, and I'd stand there in the branch and shoot my horn back their way and try and play with 'em. And so I think they paid attention to all of that too, (unclear). Johnny told me one time, he said, they used to watch me do--see what I would be doing next. And then, and I asked him, did (unclear) I ever play a thing. He said, yeah, man, we did, a couple of times we played some songs to see what you gonna do. And say, okay, and then Patty T-Cake--his name was Charles Abrams, he came to bury his sister. He was a drummer and the leader of the band, and he used to--and I asked him the same thing. He said, oh, buddy, you know we were watching you (laughter), just like that. And so I said, hum, I'm glad someone was paying attention in those days. And so eventually, as I was getting older, I'm, I can actually hang out with these guys a little bit more. I'm getting older and now they see that I'm gonna be in the clubs with them, so I'm a shoe-in wherever they start hanging out. That's how our relationship started growing and got closer. And that's just about the time Phil Walden stepped in and start booking Otis and the band. And they formed a partnership, Phil Walden, Allen Walden and Otis Redding. And it was called "Red Wald Music". Red Wald Music now is a production company and talent booking agency and they grew to be one of the largest agencies in the nation. They had all the soul acts booked out of Macon, Georgia. And that's where I fit in and I came in--I was a trumpet player, and they needed bands. They needed musicians. And I knew how to play all the different, different types of music. Boom, there I was.